S386 GOP Politics and Sen. Durbin

[Immigo]

I'd call CIR aiming for the moon. Even if CIR passes it's unknown how long it would take for USCIS to implement it. Since the timeline is uncertain there is a strong case for some sort of interim relief either now or in the near future.

In my opinion the bill in it's current form is simple and easy to understand. Arguing for increasing country quotas at the outset would come across as legitimizing the country quotas in some way and would confuse the message.

Perhaps the transition periods could have been widened to cope with the practical realities on the ground. To me, it makes sense to start from a position and negotiate/compromise as needed.

Perhaps removal of the country quotas has to wait for CIR. I know there is no appetite to increase the number of GCs. A smaller/stricter increase may be feasible, especially if accompanied by stricter H1B regulations. E.g. NIWs or anyone who has been consistently above level 4 wage and waiting for 5/8 years be made cap-exempt... my pipe dreams

[smuggymba]

Perhaps removal of the country quotas has to wait for CIR. I know there is no appetite to increase the number of GCs. A smaller/stricter increase may be feasible, especially if accompanied by stricter H1B regulations. E.g. NIWs or anyone who has been consistently above level 4 wage and waiting for 5/8 years be made cap-exempt... my pipe dreams

Any number to increase GC's that is more than zero is a non-starter with Reps. No need to spend even 1 min on it.

[EB22010Dec]

Any number to increase GC's that is more than zero is a non-starter with Reps. No need to spend even 1 min on it.

Why only UC ? I never understood that, if it is such a strong bill ...

[srimurthy]

Why only UC ? I never understood that, if it is such a strong bill ...

As expected the bill S386 is dead and Senator seems to introduce his own bill S2603 to remove or increase GCs, that is never going to happen.

https://www.americanbazaaronline.com...-s-386-439070/

[rocketfast]

Why only UC ? I never understood that, if it is such a strong bill ...

My understanding is that Senator Lindsay Graham (head of senate judiciary committee) does not think the bill is important enough to spend a week of their time on it.

[qesehmk]

Guys I'd recommend to work with Durbin to include provisions of S386 in Durbin's bill.
That way it is a win-win-win-win for Durbin-Lee-EB-India-EB-ROW.

Dont be a naysayer. Remember the politicians are all fighting for future votes. Durbin WILL agree to removal of country quota if the overall cap is doubled. And Lee will still be happy because he can still say that he worked to remove discrimination against India.

Regardless of what others say or do, call Durbin and tell him that he should introduce removal of country quota. And that EB-India community will still be pleased if it is done in a phased manner to ensure minimal impact on ROW.
e.g. The numbers subject to country quota will go down from 50% in 1st year to 0% in 3rd year onwards.

Remember - if you want to achieve your goals you must understand other people's goals.

[iatiam]

Guys I'd recommend to work with Durbin to include provisions of S386 in Durbin's bill.
That way it is a win-win-win-win for Durbin-Lee-EB-India-EB-ROW.

Dont be a naysayer. Remember the politicians are all fighting for future votes. Durbin WILL agree to removal of country quota if the overall cap is doubled. And Lee will still be happy because he can still say that he worked to remove discrimination against India.

Regardless of what others say or do, call Durbin and tell him that he should introduce removal of country quota. And that EB-India community will still be pleased if it is done in a phased manner to ensure minimal impact on ROW.
e.g. The numbers subject to country quota will go down from 50% in 1st year to 0% in 3rd year onwards.

Remember - if you want to achieve your goals you must understand other people's goals.

And that's how you kill bills. Any bill which increases the GCs by even a single number is DOA in Senate/House.

Iatiam

[qesehmk]

And that's how you kill bills. Any bill which increases the GCs by even a single number is DOA in Senate/House.

Iatiam

S386 is already dead. So how does this kills S386.

[singax]

S386 is already dead. So how does this kills S386.

IV followers on Trackitt and Facebook -are very direct, blunt and aggressive towards Senetor Durbin. Seems like IV is not in mood of compromise or any discussion , they are attacking him directly, calling him racist. Given the situation, S386 or related bill not pass, because environment is not conducive.

Does anyone else see light at the end of tunnel?

[qesehmk]

IV followers on Trackitt and Facebook -are very direct, blunt and aggressive towards Senetor Durbin. Seems like IV is not in mood of compromise or any discussion , they are attacking him directly, calling him racist. Given the situation, S386 or related bill not pass, because environment is not conducive.

Does anyone else see light at the end of tunnel?

IV is run by thick skulled - Solah doone aath - kind of people. They don't understand strategy. They should've recognized the win so far and try to build on top of the progress so far.

Why destroy future potential? Why burn bridge .... especially when there is light at the end of the tunnel.

And the light is exactly as I described above.

The world operates on give and take. It will be very hard to take away from ROW something they already have. GOP might just be open to negotiate with Indians given how desperate Trump is to once again win over Indians for 2020 election.

[iatiam]

S386 is already dead. So how does this kills S386.

How do you know it's dead?

Iatiam

[qesehmk]

How do you know it's dead?

Iatiam

A birdie named Durbin.

[mcmilers]

IV is run by thick skulled - Solah doone aath - kind of people. They don't understand strategy. They should've recognized the win so far and try to build on top of the progress so far.

Why destroy future potential? Why burn bridge .... especially when there is light at the end of the tunnel.

And the light is exactly as I described above.

The world operates on give and take. It will be very hard to take away from ROW something they already have. GOP might just be open to negotiate with Indians given how desperate Trump is to once again win over Indians for 2020 election.

I dont know the right way of proceeding so cannot comment on how to move forward but I agree with Q on attacking Sen. Durbin here. There is no need to make it personal. All IV is doing is burning bridges and in politics you never know who you'll need help from in the future.

[singax]

I dont know the right way of proceeding so cannot comment on how to move forward but I agree with Q on attacking Sen. Durbin here. There is no need to make it personal. All IV is doing is burning bridges and in politics you never know who you'll need help from in the future.

I am not IV member but if we (normal people) can comprehend that aggressiveness of IV and it's member is doing more harm then good, why can't they? No agreements can be reached by aggressiveness and attacking opposing party.

Are they (IV) doing it on purpose to keep this topic alive forever? ( I know, we can't answer).

Loosers : Indian Origin people- hatred against is being spread , it will also impact future employment chances.
Winners : IV, Attorney, Corporate, Senators (Mike and Durbin)

[eaglenow]

Not calling out anyone specifically, but there are a lot of armchair critics who have no idea about advocacy but give out free advice. I have volunteered with IV before and been to the hill multiple times to advocate for the fix. Our community is in this state because of people like this who are just armchair critics and do nothing but give advice, suggest strategies, give options, promote compromises etc without having any idea about ground reality.

For IV to take the stand they have, there is very specific reason. Read through their posts on Facebook and you will understand. The fact that some of you think a compromise is the way suggests you have no idea about the opposition you are facing.

Here is the reality. Nothing related to immigration will pass in the next few years. Immigration is a second term priority, which means any first term president will not take up immigration. If trump wins a second term, he will take it up and if possible, pass a restrictive version where most of you in the line will either be kicked out or will start in a new process from the scratch.

And no, even a single GC increase is not possible outside of CIR, either directly or indirectly through recapture, not count dependents etc.. There are only 2 possible immigration related bills even remotely possible in the next few years outside of CIR. One is DACA and the other is removal of per country limits. That’s it.

You can compromise till cows come home, but you will not get anything passed. The current bill is blocked only by Sen. Durbin and he has no good intention behind it. Given the no harm provision, no row applicant with an approved 140 will be impacted by passing this bill.

His position essentially is: unless future applicants, who are not even in the system yet, do not have to wait for GC, applicants born in India must continue to be discriminated. He knows very well that increasing GC is impossible in the current climate. So all he is trying to do is kill the bill, thereby impacting only Indian applicants.

Look at his interview recently where he talked about DACA and mentioned that it is not possible to get DACA done under trump admin. And he thinks asking for GC increase is possible? There is a reason no one else is with him on opposing this bill. Everyone on the hill knows he is only trying to kill the bill and is not acting in good faith.

He is looking for some way to get out of this and is already under tremendous pressure, even from within his own party. All he needs is for some Indian immigrants to support his relief act or say they agree with him about not impacting Row etc and or suggest some other similar compromise that will bring in opposition of other senators. He will use that to show that not all backlogged applicants support this bill and he will use that to kill the bill.

Whether you like it or not, IV is the only org that has worked on this for more than a decade. For people who are not familiar, IV is not 2 or 3 people. It includes multiple different groups of volunteers over the years who have spent their personal time and money to advocate for this bill, both at local levels and on the hill.

The support for this bill was EARNED one office at a time. This includes Sen Durbin as well, who co-sponsored the bill in an earlier congress. The bill has been analyzed and debated for more than 10 years and he suddenly has concerns? Back in 2010 when I was on the hill, the first question the staffer asked is: will this not make wait times of other countries longer? My response was country of birth has no relevance in employment based GC and if people born in India can wait, why is it wrong for others to wait? This was the first question. Pretty much every single office had the same question and a lot more. That statement still holds true.

All this discussion on it impacts ROW and helps only Indians etc are all BS. Current system discriminates against Indians. Why? because other Indians applied in large numbers. Now tell me what control you or Any ROW person has regarding who else applies for GC from their country of birth? Yet, that is the criteria used to keep you waiting while another non-Indian applicant with the same skills and category who starts 10 years after you will get GC in a year.

If the senators ask was reasonable and in good faith, it can be worked through. The hold by Sen. Perdue and Sen. Paul are examples. What Sen. Durbin is asking for would be the same as a Republican senator asking to stop family based immigration completely. It is completely illogical and is designed to only kill the bill.

Now is the time for the backlogged community to stand together and show that they don’t agree with the senator. Even if you don’t think he is racist, he is still impacting your life by showing more concern for people who are not even in the system yet over people who are already in backlogs for more than a decade. So there is nothing wrong in asking him to remove his hold and telling his office of the impact the current discrimination has on you and your family.

There is nothing stopping him from working on his bill AFTER passing this bill.

Remember the status quo only helps future applicants at the expense of backlogged applicants. The argument that only Indians benefit and row will be impacted is absurd. This bill removes discrimination and so naturally the people being discriminated will benefit and those are current beneficiaries of the discrimination will not have that benefit anymore.

As an analogy, this is the same as arguing slavery/desegregation only benefits one race and will impact plantation owners/caucasians and so should not be abolished. It sure is an argument, but an absurd one. After this bill is passed, all applicants, regardless of where they are born, will have the same wait time if they have similar skills in the same criteria. In the meantime, people who are discriminated against will start getting relief. Not overnight, but over the years.

This along with the no harm provision and transition by themselves are a compromise.

I humbly request anyone here to think about all the efforts of all the IV volunteers and the thousands of meetings by those volunteers over the years for this fix, before you deride IV as if it is a single person. I request you not undermine the effort of all of those volunteers.

Before you give any advice to IV or its volunteers, please think about your participation in advocacy. The core members have been doing this for more than a decade and a couple of them are on the hill every single day. If you think you have better strategy or idea think again. This would be akin to a first grader thinking they know better than their parents.

Please remember, this is our only chance. We need to keep the pressure up. Miss this chance and you are not going to see anything else for the next decade or more.

[qesehmk]

My friend - clearly I am the one giving advice so I must respond to your post.

This blog is hardly a first grader in giving advice. We are the only ones who established that country quota is the root of all EVIL as far as backlogged candidates go. Without us IV was already irrelevant in 2006-2007.

And given I am running this site for last 12 years I am hardly an armchair critic.

I do agree that advocacy on ground is a tough sport. But my friend even though I am not on the ground I have predicted things with almost 100% accuracy. I am screaming from the bottom of my lungs how stars are perfectly aligned against EB-India. The whole system is the way it is because there are strong interests aligned on how it works today.

I say this with most respect for the advocacy efforts that if you do not know the lay of the land, your direct and strategies are ought to turn wrong. And you are going to go in circles despite honest efforts.

As far as durbin goes .... again ... nothing is personal ... this is a sport... if it is not Durbin it will be somebody else. The story will remain similar. So don't make it personal. Simply focus on building on the success you already had.

Not calling out anyone specifically, but there are a lot of armchair critics who have no idea about advocacy but give out free advice. I have volunteered with IV before and been to the hill multiple times to advocate for the fix. Our community is in this state because of people like this who are just armchair critics and do nothing but give advice, suggest strategies, give options, promote compromises etc without having any idea about ground reality.

For IV to take the stand they have, there is very specific reason. Read through their posts on Facebook and you will understand. The fact that some of you think a compromise is the way suggests you have no idea about the opposition you are facing.

Here is the reality. Nothing related to immigration will pass in the next few years. Immigration is a second term priority, which means any first term president will not take up immigration. If trump wins a second term, he will take it up and if possible, pass a restrictive version where most of you in the line will either be kicked out or will start in a new process from the scratch.

And no, even a single GC increase is not possible outside of CIR, either directly or indirectly through recapture, not count dependents etc.. There are only 2 possible immigration related bills even remotely possible in the next few years outside of CIR. One is DACA and the other is removal of per country limits. That’s it.

You can compromise till cows come home, but you will not get anything passed. The current bill is blocked only by Sen. Durbin and he has no good intention behind it. Given the no harm provision, no row applicant with an approved 140 will be impacted by passing this bill.

His position essentially is: unless future applicants, who are not even in the system yet, do not have to wait for GC, applicants born in India must continue to be discriminated. He knows very well that increasing GC is impossible in the current climate. So all he is trying to do is kill the bill, thereby impacting only Indian applicants.

Look at his interview recently where he talked about DACA and mentioned that it is not possible to get DACA done under trump admin. And he thinks asking for GC increase is possible? There is a reason no one else is with him on opposing this bill. Everyone on the hill knows he is only trying to kill the bill and is not acting in good faith.

He is looking for some way to get out of this and is already under tremendous pressure, even from within his own party. All he needs is for some Indian immigrants to support his relief act or say they agree with him about not impacting Row etc and or suggest some other similar compromise that will bring in opposition of other senators. He will use that to show that not all backlogged applicants support this bill and he will use that to kill the bill.

Whether you like it or not, IV is the only org that has worked on this for more than a decade. For people who are not familiar, IV is not 2 or 3 people. It includes multiple different groups of volunteers over the years who have spent their personal time and money to advocate for this bill, both at local levels and on the hill.

The support for this bill was EARNED one office at a time. This includes Sen Durbin as well, who co-sponsored the bill in an earlier congress. The bill has been analyzed and debated for more than 10 years and he suddenly has concerns? Back in 2010 when I was on the hill, the first question the staffer asked is: will this not make wait times of other countries longer? My response was country of birth has no relevance in employment based GC and if people born in India can wait, why is it wrong for others to wait? This was the first question. Pretty much every single office had the same question and a lot more. That statement still holds true.

All this discussion on it impacts ROW and helps only Indians etc are all BS. Current system discriminates against Indians. Why? because other Indians applied in large numbers. Now tell me what control you or Any ROW person has regarding who else applies for GC from their country of birth? Yet, that is the criteria used to keep you waiting while another non-Indian applicant with the same skills and category who starts 10 years after you will get GC in a year.

If the senators ask was reasonable and in good faith, it can be worked through. The hold by Sen. Perdue and Sen. Paul are examples. What Sen. Durbin is asking for would be the same as a Republican senator asking to stop family based immigration completely. It is completely illogical and is designed to only kill the bill.

Now is the time for the backlogged community to stand together and show that they don’t agree with the senator. Even if you don’t think he is racist, he is still impacting your life by showing more concern for people who are not even in the system yet over people who are already in backlogs for more than a decade. So there is nothing wrong in asking him to remove his hold and telling his office of the impact the current discrimination has on you and your family.

There is nothing stopping him from working on his bill AFTER passing this bill.

Remember the status quo only helps future applicants at the expense of backlogged applicants. The argument that only Indians benefit and row will be impacted is absurd. This bill removes discrimination and so naturally the people being discriminated will benefit and those are current beneficiaries of the discrimination will not have that benefit anymore.

As an analogy, this is the same as arguing slavery/desegregation only benefits one race and will impact plantation owners/caucasians and so should not be abolished. It sure is an argument, but an absurd one. After this bill is passed, all applicants, regardless of where they are born, will have the same wait time if they have similar skills in the same criteria. In the meantime, people who are discriminated against will start getting relief. Not overnight, but over the years.

This along with the no harm provision and transition by themselves are a compromise.

I humbly request anyone here to think about all the efforts of all the IV volunteers and the thousands of meetings by those volunteers over the years for this fix, before you deride IV as if it is a single person. I request you not undermine the effort of all of those volunteers.

Before you give any advice to IV or its volunteers, please think about your participation in advocacy. The core members have been doing this for more than a decade and a couple of them are on the hill every single day. If you think you have better strategy or idea think again. This would be akin to a first grader thinking they know better than their parents.

Please remember, this is our only chance. We need to keep the pressure up. Miss this chance and you are not going to see anything else for the next decade or more.

[iatiam]

My friend - clearly I am the one giving advice so I must respond to your post.

This blog is hardly a first grader in giving advice. We are the only ones who established that country quota is the root of all EVIL as far as backlogged candidates go. Without us IV was already irrelevant in 2006-2007.

And given I am running this site for last 12 years I am hardly an armchair critic.

I do agree that advocacy on ground is a tough sport. But my friend even though I am not on the ground I have predicted things with almost 100% accuracy. I am screaming from the bottom of my lungs how stars are perfectly aligned against EB-India. The whole system is the way it is because there are strong interests aligned on how it works today.

I say this with most respect for the advocacy efforts that if you do not know the lay of the land, your direct and strategies are ought to turn wrong. And you are going to go in circles despite honest efforts.

As far as durbin goes .... again ... nothing is personal ... this is a sport... if it is not Durbin it will be somebody else. The story will remain similar. So don't make it personal. Simply focus on building on the success you already had.

Country caps are the issue and Bob's your uncle

Iatiam

[eaglenow]

My friend - clearly I am the one giving advice so I must respond to your post.

This blog is hardly a first grader in giving advice. We are the only ones who established that country quota is the root of all EVIL as far as backlogged candidates go. Without us IV was already irrelevant in 2006-2007.

And given I am running this site for last 12 years I am hardly an armchair critic.

I do agree that advocacy on ground is a tough sport. But my friend even though I am not on the ground I have predicted things with almost 100% accuracy. I am screaming from the bottom of my lungs how stars are perfectly aligned against EB-India. The whole system is the way it is because there are strong interests aligned on how it works today.

I say this with most respect for the advocacy efforts that if you do not know the lay of the land, your direct and strategies are ought to turn wrong. And you are going to go in circles despite honest efforts.

As far as durbin goes .... again ... nothing is personal ... this is a sport... if it is not Durbin it will be somebody else. The story will remain similar. So don't make it personal. Simply focus on building on the success you already had.

Since you responded, I will say this, it is not just you. My post was not directed at you, but I see a lot of folks with their own ideas, suggestions, discoveries etc. without having been through a single day of advocacy. Not just here, but in forums and even in IV channels.

I have seen first hand through multiple meetings, all the setbacks, how they were overcome, the number of times the bill died and then came to life again over the years. This has given me perspective on how things work on the hill.

With all due respect, unless one has been advocating on the hill and locally for at least a year, there is no way to know the ground reality. Running this site and predicting using available incomplete data is entirely different from advocating on the hill to get a bill passed.

While you are free to give your suggestions, just keep in mind that you have the potential to mislead others given the credibility you have based on your predictions and this site. I am sure you have no bad intentions, but without information from the ground and understanding the actual situation, there is no way to give right direction or suggestions. Specifically the one you gave in your post is all Sen. Durbin needs to kill this bill completely. Again I am sure you have no bad intentions, but your lack of day to day advocacy knowledge and ground level reality and landscape does not afford you the opportunity to see things the same as those on the ground.

And no you cannot get the lay of the land without advocating on the hill to understand how things are done. The bill is where it is today primarily due to the relentless efforts of thousands of volunteers over the years and many thousands of meetings both locally and in DC. I have personally witnessed a number of times blocks and setbacks to the bill and how they were overcome.

Anyone have any idea how the block from Sen. Grassley was overcome? Sen. Leahy? From Irish lobby? From DACA lobby? From CIR groups? Innumerable other special interests, lobbies, oppositions? I hope IV core leadership decides to do a book or documentary on how this bill started and how this was passed. That is a lesson that everyone needs to know so that in the future our community is not discriminated in any way.

I have no idea about IV or your role in 2006-2007. Back in 2005, I also realized that per country limits were a stupid idea in EB GC and will lead to backlogs. This was a time when EB2I was actually current.

But I do know for a fact that the removal of per-country limits was proposed by one of the Republican lawmakers as the only one that has any chance of passing from the list of all requested fixes. This list included everything under the sun from recapture to dependent exemption, file 485 with approved 140 etc. This was back in 2009. In fact one of my first advocacy events was about this list of asks and the request from the offices on what they thought was possible to be passed.

And since then every single office support was earned through numerous meetings.
I see people who proudly claim they are not part of IV, some who claim they don’t know what they are doing and come up with ideas, some who openly undermine the efforts of so many volunteers. This happens only within our community. They think IV is one person or some people are making a fortune by milking this etc. An example is one of the comments that mentions IV as one of the beneficiaries of a broken system. That is absurd to the extreme. It not only undermines the effort of so many people, but just mocks and insults their efforts.

And to be blunt, any suggestion you give, regardless of your lack of malice, if it derails the efforts, it has no impact on you. But for those in backlog, it could mean the difference between them getting GC and never getting one.

I don’t mean to come off aggressive, but I am just tired of people dishing out advice and being armchair critics without having spent a day advocating for this bill. And to think they can come up with a better suggestion/strategy/direction/ideas than the ones on the ground working on this over the years along with lobbyists and spending numerous hours and thousands of meetings is frankly arrogant.

An honest question. Does anyone really think that all the thousands of volunteers who have advocated for this bill over the years are all idiots and just blindly followed IV leaders without looking at the ground reality or questioning the strategy or direction? Some are already citizens now and many have GCs. Yet they choose to volunteer their time and money for the cause so that the discriminating n is removed.

One of the reasons our community is in the current state is because of lack of unity. There are multiple splinter groups who have no reason to exist other than to show themselves as leaders. Do you know how many times those groups killed the bill? And the numerous hours spent by IV volunteers to undo the damage.

I am not even that active nowadays given my current life circumstances. But given my past involvement I can tell you first hand, this volunteering is a thankless job, especially for our community. Sometimes I get so frustrated that I feel IV should just shut down and let our community just die in backlogs. I am glad I am not the one running the show nor am I in the core team. I would have closed out IV to let others rot in backlogs given the amount of negative cynicism about IV without having attended one advocacy event or contributed in any way.

For me personally all it took was one event in DC to see for myself what we faced. The lack of knowledge of our community is astounding. And add to this our arrogance in questioning everything someone else is actually doing that will benefit us.

Regarding H4EAD, IV said in December 2016 that it is being targeted and it would go away. Many lawyers and groups just called it FUD and just to raise money. When they really were going ahead, there was debate in IV on whether to intervene or not. Eventually IV intervened with a couple of volunteers. That is the only reason the admin did not just settle with plaintiffs to kill H4EAD. This was confirmed as such by the acting USCIS director in a recent event. Without this intervention there would be no H4EAD now. This is also only delaying the inevitable.

The real fix is to remove the per country caps. And the only senator preventing that is Sen. Durbin. This bill almost passed but for his objection. He is trying to get others to object as well, but so far he has not been successful. Now it is on our community to keep the pressure on from our end by calling their office and sharing our stories.

There is no reason for the senator to block this bill. His relief act can be worked on after passing this bill. The only chance we have is to keep calling and sharing our stories and how we are impacted by the current discrimination.

Again please don’t take this as a personal attack. It is not. Just frustration at our community in general.

[abcx13]

^Well said, Eaglenow.

[GhostWriter]

Very well articulated Eaglenow. Thanks for your thoughts. Much needed and appreciated.

[qesehmk]

Eagle - I have utmost respect for all the volunteers as well as for IV leadership for their efforts. My comments are about advocacy strategy and direction.

If I am an armchair critic as you say and an influential person with ability to do harm to IV's strategy - then what you should be doing is sending a private message to me - and getting over a phone or a coffee and have a deep dialogue. Instead of that what you are doing is exactly the same thing you are doing to Durbin.

Public shaming / admonishing / or arguing .. howsoever sugarcoated hurts and people become more obstinate. So that's all my advice is - engage Durbin on his own ideas and then try to bring him around yours. And same with Lee. Again easier said than done. I get that. What I do guarantee you is this public shaming business is not going to work EVER. Durbin is still a liberal guy with Lithuanian mother - and yet he will not budge. So what does that tell you? That Durbin is a jerk?

I think it is immature of IV to think that way. They have far more power than me or this blog to harm EB-India and I think if they continue to shame Durbin then they are the ones who are harming EB-India, not me.

Since you responded, I will say this, it is not just you. My post was not directed at you, but I see a lot of folks with their own ideas, suggestions, discoveries etc. without having been through a single day of advocacy. Not just here, but in forums and even in IV channels.

I have seen first hand through multiple meetings, all the setbacks, how they were overcome, the number of times the bill died and then came to life again over the years. This has given me perspective on how things work on the hill.

With all due respect, unless one has been advocating on the hill and locally for at least a year, there is no way to know the ground reality. Running this site and predicting using available incomplete data is entirely different from advocating on the hill to get a bill passed.

While you are free to give your suggestions, just keep in mind that you have the potential to mislead others given the credibility you have based on your predictions and this site. I am sure you have no bad intentions, but without information from the ground and understanding the actual situation, there is no way to give right direction or suggestions. Specifically the one you gave in your post is all Sen. Durbin needs to kill this bill completely. Again I am sure you have no bad intentions, but your lack of day to day advocacy knowledge and ground level reality and landscape does not afford you the opportunity to see things the same as those on the ground.

And no you cannot get the lay of the land without advocating on the hill to understand how things are done. The bill is where it is today primarily due to the relentless efforts of thousands of volunteers over the years and many thousands of meetings both locally and in DC. I have personally witnessed a number of times blocks and setbacks to the bill and how they were overcome.

Anyone have any idea how the block from Sen. Grassley was overcome? Sen. Leahy? From Irish lobby? From DACA lobby? From CIR groups? Innumerable other special interests, lobbies, oppositions? I hope IV core leadership decides to do a book or documentary on how this bill started and how this was passed. That is a lesson that everyone needs to know so that in the future our community is not discriminated in any way.

I have no idea about IV or your role in 2006-2007. Back in 2005, I also realized that per country limits were a stupid idea in EB GC and will lead to backlogs. This was a time when EB2I was actually current.

But I do know for a fact that the removal of per-country limits was proposed by one of the Republican lawmakers as the only one that has any chance of passing from the list of all requested fixes. This list included everything under the sun from recapture to dependent exemption, file 485 with approved 140 etc. This was back in 2009. In fact one of my first advocacy events was about this list of asks and the request from the offices on what they thought was possible to be passed.

And since then every single office support was earned through numerous meetings.
I see people who proudly claim they are not part of IV, some who claim they don’t know what they are doing and come up with ideas, some who openly undermine the efforts of so many volunteers. This happens only within our community. They think IV is one person or some people are making a fortune by milking this etc. An example is one of the comments that mentions IV as one of the beneficiaries of a broken system. That is absurd to the extreme. It not only undermines the effort of so many people, but just mocks and insults their efforts.

And to be blunt, any suggestion you give, regardless of your lack of malice, if it derails the efforts, it has no impact on you. But for those in backlog, it could mean the difference between them getting GC and never getting one.

I don’t mean to come off aggressive, but I am just tired of people dishing out advice and being armchair critics without having spent a day advocating for this bill. And to think they can come up with a better suggestion/strategy/direction/ideas than the ones on the ground working on this over the years along with lobbyists and spending numerous hours and thousands of meetings is frankly arrogant.

An honest question. Does anyone really think that all the thousands of volunteers who have advocated for this bill over the years are all idiots and just blindly followed IV leaders without looking at the ground reality or questioning the strategy or direction? Some are already citizens now and many have GCs. Yet they choose to volunteer their time and money for the cause so that the discriminating n is removed.

One of the reasons our community is in the current state is because of lack of unity. There are multiple splinter groups who have no reason to exist other than to show themselves as leaders. Do you know how many times those groups killed the bill? And the numerous hours spent by IV volunteers to undo the damage.

I am not even that active nowadays given my current life circumstances. But given my past involvement I can tell you first hand, this volunteering is a thankless job, especially for our community. Sometimes I get so frustrated that I feel IV should just shut down and let our community just die in backlogs. I am glad I am not the one running the show nor am I in the core team. I would have closed out IV to let others rot in backlogs given the amount of negative cynicism about IV without having attended one advocacy event or contributed in any way.

For me personally all it took was one event in DC to see for myself what we faced. The lack of knowledge of our community is astounding. And add to this our arrogance in questioning everything someone else is actually doing that will benefit us.

Regarding H4EAD, IV said in December 2016 that it is being targeted and it would go away. Many lawyers and groups just called it FUD and just to raise money. When they really were going ahead, there was debate in IV on whether to intervene or not. Eventually IV intervened with a couple of volunteers. That is the only reason the admin did not just settle with plaintiffs to kill H4EAD. This was confirmed as such by the acting USCIS director in a recent event. Without this intervention there would be no H4EAD now. This is also only delaying the inevitable.

The real fix is to remove the per country caps. And the only senator preventing that is Sen. Durbin. This bill almost passed but for his objection. He is trying to get others to object as well, but so far he has not been successful. Now it is on our community to keep the pressure on from our end by calling their office and sharing our stories.

There is no reason for the senator to block this bill. His relief act can be worked on after passing this bill. The only chance we have is to keep calling and sharing our stories and how we are impacted by the current discrimination.

Again please don’t take this as a personal attack. It is not. Just frustration at our community in general.

[qesehmk]

What does that mean?

Country caps are the issue and Bob's your uncle

Iatiam

[Immigo]

Since you responded, I will say this, it is not just you. My post was not directed at you, but I see a lot of folks with their own ideas, suggestions, discoveries etc. without having been through a single day of advocacy. Not just here, but in forums and even in IV channels.

I have seen first hand through multiple meetings, all the setbacks, how they were overcome, the number of times the bill died and then came to life again over the years. This has given me perspective on how things work on the hill.

With all due respect, unless one has been advocating on the hill and locally for at least a year, there is no way to know the ground reality. Running this site and predicting using available incomplete data is entirely different from advocating on the hill to get a bill passed.

While you are free to give your suggestions, just keep in mind that you have the potential to mislead others given the credibility you have based on your predictions and this site. I am sure you have no bad intentions, but without information from the ground and understanding the actual situation, there is no way to give right direction or suggestions. Specifically the one you gave in your post is all Sen. Durbin needs to kill this bill completely. Again I am sure you have no bad intentions, but your lack of day to day advocacy knowledge and ground level reality and landscape does not afford you the opportunity to see things the same as those on the ground.

And no you cannot get the lay of the land without advocating on the hill to understand how things are done. The bill is where it is today primarily due to the relentless efforts of thousands of volunteers over the years and many thousands of meetings both locally and in DC. I have personally witnessed a number of times blocks and setbacks to the bill and how they were overcome.

Anyone have any idea how the block from Sen. Grassley was overcome? Sen. Leahy? From Irish lobby? From DACA lobby? From CIR groups? Innumerable other special interests, lobbies, oppositions? I hope IV core leadership decides to do a book or documentary on how this bill started and how this was passed. That is a lesson that everyone needs to know so that in the future our community is not discriminated in any way.

I have no idea about IV or your role in 2006-2007. Back in 2005, I also realized that per country limits were a stupid idea in EB GC and will lead to backlogs. This was a time when EB2I was actually current.

But I do know for a fact that the removal of per-country limits was proposed by one of the Republican lawmakers as the only one that has any chance of passing from the list of all requested fixes. This list included everything under the sun from recapture to dependent exemption, file 485 with approved 140 etc. This was back in 2009. In fact one of my first advocacy events was about this list of asks and the request from the offices on what they thought was possible to be passed.

And since then every single office support was earned through numerous meetings.
I see people who proudly claim they are not part of IV, some who claim they don’t know what they are doing and come up with ideas, some who openly undermine the efforts of so many volunteers. This happens only within our community. They think IV is one person or some people are making a fortune by milking this etc. An example is one of the comments that mentions IV as one of the beneficiaries of a broken system. That is absurd to the extreme. It not only undermines the effort of so many people, but just mocks and insults their efforts.

And to be blunt, any suggestion you give, regardless of your lack of malice, if it derails the efforts, it has no impact on you. But for those in backlog, it could mean the difference between them getting GC and never getting one.

I don’t mean to come off aggressive, but I am just tired of people dishing out advice and being armchair critics without having spent a day advocating for this bill. And to think they can come up with a better suggestion/strategy/direction/ideas than the ones on the ground working on this over the years along with lobbyists and spending numerous hours and thousands of meetings is frankly arrogant.

An honest question. Does anyone really think that all the thousands of volunteers who have advocated for this bill over the years are all idiots and just blindly followed IV leaders without looking at the ground reality or questioning the strategy or direction? Some are already citizens now and many have GCs. Yet they choose to volunteer their time and money for the cause so that the discriminating n is removed.

One of the reasons our community is in the current state is because of lack of unity. There are multiple splinter groups who have no reason to exist other than to show themselves as leaders. Do you know how many times those groups killed the bill? And the numerous hours spent by IV volunteers to undo the damage.

I am not even that active nowadays given my current life circumstances. But given my past involvement I can tell you first hand, this volunteering is a thankless job, especially for our community. Sometimes I get so frustrated that I feel IV should just shut down and let our community just die in backlogs. I am glad I am not the one running the show nor am I in the core team. I would have closed out IV to let others rot in backlogs given the amount of negative cynicism about IV without having attended one advocacy event or contributed in any way.

For me personally all it took was one event in DC to see for myself what we faced. The lack of knowledge of our community is astounding. And add to this our arrogance in questioning everything someone else is actually doing that will benefit us.

Regarding H4EAD, IV said in December 2016 that it is being targeted and it would go away. Many lawyers and groups just called it FUD and just to raise money. When they really were going ahead, there was debate in IV on whether to intervene or not. Eventually IV intervened with a couple of volunteers. That is the only reason the admin did not just settle with plaintiffs to kill H4EAD. This was confirmed as such by the acting USCIS director in a recent event. Without this intervention there would be no H4EAD now. This is also only delaying the inevitable.

The real fix is to remove the per country caps. And the only senator preventing that is Sen. Durbin. This bill almost passed but for his objection. He is trying to get others to object as well, but so far he has not been successful. Now it is on our community to keep the pressure on from our end by calling their office and sharing our stories.

There is no reason for the senator to block this bill. His relief act can be worked on after passing this bill. The only chance we have is to keep calling and sharing our stories and how we are impacted by the current discrimination.

Again please don’t take this as a personal attack. It is not. Just frustration at our community in general.

Clearly, if a bill like S386 was brought up back in 2005 when EB2I was current, it would not have faced so much resistance from ROW. Since backlogs built over a period of time, if the limits were removed today in a more phased way, it would have a better chance of success. For example going from 7% to 10%, 20%, 30%...100% (over a 9-10 year time frame). Was this ever considered as a compromise ?

Again, utmost respect for all those involved in advocacy and for bringing S386/HR1044 to as far as it came (.... has come).

[eaglenow]

Eagle - I have utmost respect for all the volunteers as well as for IV leadership for their efforts. My comments are about advocacy strategy and direction.

If I am an armchair critic as you say and an influential person with ability to do harm to IV's strategy - then what you should be doing is sending a private message to me - and getting over a phone or a coffee and have a deep dialogue. Instead of that what you are doing is exactly the same thing you are doing to Durbin.

Public shaming / admonishing / or arguing .. howsoever sugarcoated hurts and people become more obstinate. So that's all my advice is - engage Durbin on his own ideas and then try to bring him around yours. And same with Lee. Again easier said than done. I get that. What I do guarantee you is this public shaming business is not going to work EVER. Durbin is still a liberal guy with Lithuanian mother - and yet he will not budge. So what does that tell you? That Durbin is a jerk?

I think it is immature of IV to think that way. They have far more power than me or this blog to harm EB-India and I think if they continue to shame Durbin then they are the ones who are harming EB-India, not me.

Like I said, my intention is not to shame anyone. It was just general observation. Since you responded, I replied to you. Like I said, I do believe that you have no bad intentions and you are reasonable as demonstrated by the fact that you did not simply delete my posts and be done with it.

I am sure I can reason with you and sure will reach out to you for a longer discussion about advocacy and we can share perspectives.

IV stand with Sen. Durbin is not to shame him or harass him. They are just calling him out. If you look in the past, they have never done this, even to Sen. Grassley, Sen. Sessions and numerous other blocks and setbacks. But calling out Sen. Durbin is a necessity felt by IV leaders at this time.

Sen. Durbin is not being reasonable and is not ready to negotiate in good faith. He mocks Indians waiting in these perennial backlog line, blocks the most reasonable and possibly the only immigration bill that can pass outside of CIR, refuses to add aging out kids to his dream act, and on top of it comes out with a bill that has absolutely no chance of passing. And brings it to the floor for UC, a process he says is not right for the most agreed upon bipartisan bill. And this is for a bill he had cosponsored. The only difference being at that time, it had Irish relief provisions. He is literally mocking the entire community.

His Relief act is only to show that he is pro immigrant. This is how bills are killed. Look up the history of how bills are killed, especially common sense ones. It invariably involves the lawmaker agreeing with the bill in principle and they add a poison pill, that seems reasonable to outside world but in essence and reality is only designed to kill the bill.

His mother was an immigrant does not matter as his intentions are what matters. Now I did not personally witness this and saw it in a post on the IV main channel. So take it with a grain of salt. He apparently told one of the members in the cafeteria that Indians need to stop cheating and abuse. Now if that is not stereotyping, I am not sure what is.

And regardless of whether we think he is a racist or not, his actions speak louder than words. His position is let Indians keep waiting till more GCs can be allocated. He simply does not care that people are in backlogs for more than a decade and effectively any Indian filing for GC now will never get GC unless laws change. But he is acting concerned that future applicants not in the system yet will be impacted. So Indians are sub humans who are meant to be discriminated and others must not have any wait times?

And he has the audacity to say this will benefit only Indians at the expense of other communities. It is really the other way around. Today row is benefiting at the expense of backlogged Indians.

The core issue is that lack of GC numbers results in backlog. The compositiOn of backlog is proof of discrimination due to country of birth. This bill aims to remove discrimination and not fix backlogs.

He says the discrimination can be removed only if backlogs are removed at the same time. Why are the two linked? After passing the bill to fix discrimination, we can work on fixing backlogs. They are not related and need not be passed together nor are they mutually exclusive.

He is fine with Indians waiting for a decade now with people from 2015 never getting GC, but he is worried that future applicants will have to wait 8 to 10 years to get GC? And if this does not show his intent what will?

He is simply playing politics with the lives of people born in India. And his actions betray his thoughts.

We just need to make calls and share our stories and request him to remove his hold. The only thing our community can do at this time is to keep the calls going and show that we will not give up. Again, his acting in bad faith is very evident as noted by the tweet from Rep.Lofgren and the statement from Sen. warner on the floor. We need to stand together at this time and show that we will not fall for tricks like increasing GC etc. He has no logical reason to hold this bill.

If he thinks increasing GC will be quick, he should have no trouble passing the current bill and then passing the GC increase. If he knows increasing GC is not easy, why is he holding this bill and promoting his relief act instead. In either case there is no reason to block this bill. And that is what we need to keep calling about and sharing how we are impacted. All of us should be calling him to discuss the impact of current system and ask him to remove his hold. If we keep doing that, given the pressure from other sides, he will relent, maybe by asking for minor changes to existing bill or passing the bill as is. We do not have any other choice as nothing else will pass outside of CIR.

And even President Obama with his huge political capital and having won the house and senate did not touch CIR. And the partisan politics has only gotten worse. This is a rare bill that has huge bipartisan support that is being blocked by only one senator for no logical reason.

[eaglenow]

Clearly, if a bill like S386 was brought up back in 2005 when EB2I was current, it would not have faced so much resistance from ROW. Since backlogs built over a period of time, if the limits were removed today in a more phased way, it would have a better chance of success. For example going from 7% to 10%, 20%, 30%...100% (over a 9-10 year time frame). Was this ever considered as a compromise ?

Again, utmost respect for all those involved in advocacy and for bringing S386/HR1044 to as far as it came (.... has come).

Reistance from ROW? With the do no harm provision no row applicant with approved 140 will be impacted. So who is the resistance from? People who are not yet in the system?

And you need to stop negotiating with yourself. It just shows desperation. Why do you think it’s fine for people born in India to wait for 30 years (with your plan) while others cannot wait for 8? Given the current processing times, the real wait time is only 5 more years and this is for people who are not yet in the system. Why is this not fair? For backlogged applicants even with the existing transition, it will take 8 years or so to clear out backlogs. So any new applicant will wait for 8 years for their turn. This is assuming CIR or other bill does not pass in the meantime. Why is this not fair?

The bill as it currently stands with do harm provision is as fair as it gets. If there are other reasonable compromises to be made, let that come from the senator. The moment you start proposing things, he will latch on to that to portray that even backlogged applicants don’t think the bill is fair.

I am not sure why our community does not believe they deserve to be treated equally to others. You are not being fair by proposing these things, you are just saying you don’t deserve to be treated equally. Many row folks who won’t even be impacted by this bill oppose this bill because they think future applicants will be impacted. And here our folks who are already impacted and waiting for a decade are trying out various options. The irony is unbelievable.