Bills, Rules & Politics

[ziggy2k]

I would love to be part of this lawsuit - both financially (where desis throw in the towel) and also contribution wise.

An observation (reg. the willingness of individuals in the Indian community to contribute financially) -- this year the issuance of H4 EADs for several people were delayed, and several individuals paid around $1K each to be part of a lawsuit against USCIS; this actually did seem to expedite the H4 EAD cases of all individuals participating in the lawsuit.

Regarding the possibility of winning/losing a lawsuit - if the DACA recipients have a case, then the backlogged community which is in compliance with laws should have an even stronger case in my opinion.

[ziggy2k]

On a separate note - a detail that I'm probably overanalyzing: I watched the CIS interview with Ken Cucinelli in which he was asked about the backlogged individuals from India.

He mentions that (paraphrasing) he is aware of the problem, and that there were multiple ways to address the problem, and then also mentions that he questions if this is a problem in the first place. That remark came across as cryptic to me--why would he think this isn't a problem? It didn't come across as a typical anti-immigrant comment to me (i.e. did he see something in the data available to him etc.?), but maybe I'm reading too much into it.

[smuggymba]

On a separate note - a detail that I'm probably overanalyzing: I watched the CIS interview with Ken Cucinelli in which he was asked about the backlogged individuals from India.

He mentions that (paraphrasing) he is aware of the problem, and that there were multiple ways to address the problem, and then also mentions that he questions if this is a problem in the first place. That remark came across as cryptic to me--why would he think this isn't a problem? It didn't come across as a typical anti-immigrant comment to me (i.e. did he see something in the data available to him etc.?), but maybe I'm reading too much into it.

Jessica Vaughn from CIS had an article where she says -

“I think it’s a bad idea to scrap the per-country caps, at least independently of a major overhaul of the entire system,” said Jessica Vaughan, director of policy studies for CIS. “It will reward this dysfunctional employment visa system, but also cut off the opportunity for green cards to people from the rest of the world, who tend to be more uniquely qualified than the folks who are waiting after having been contract H-1B workers.”

Per John Miano - "The green card backlog problem is overblown. It only affects a few countries that supply large numbers of H-1B workers."

CIS/Breitbart are immigrant haters and their so called "analysis" shows it clearly.

[rocketfast]

IMO, country cap elimination gets increasingly harder every year. Each year India is adding ~50,000 PERMs creating a ~100,000 demand. It is unsustainable. In another 5 years, there will be a backlog similar to current DACA recipients. There will be always some senator that will balk at those numbers.

H1B IT workers also earn higher pay than other professionals. So the people that don't like Indians can't even introduce a salary cap as that will only benefit more experienced Indians that are in the backlog longer. Their best hope is we will self-deport or add points that hurt older workers. But they don't realize that all of us that did graduate studies here have American born kids. So we have a backstop to come back to the USA.

The Supreme court is going to make a decision on DACA next year. A small window could open up again. But last time Senate tried to pass a DACA legislation, we were not part of the discussion at all (except via now retired Senator Flake and Senator Hatch).

[TheLureoftheGreen]

In this country you can sue government. US has anti discrimination laws that are being violated in case of backlogged candidates. Those who have thin skin and thick skull need not sue anybody. I am preaching to those who may have courage and desire to do something different. The worst case result will be that the lawsuit will be thrown out..... but even then the national press will take note and it will help build public opinion for the backlogged candidates - if you play it well.

Q - What in my response deserved such a strong outburst? Separately, do we know of any legal scholar who has opined on this? That there is indeed a case to be made based on constitutional rights? US has had some vein of per country limits since time immemorial. First, it was to ensure not too many Africans or southern and eastern Europeans could come, then it was the Chinese. Racial engineering appears to have been the norm in the evolution of immigration laws in this country. For whatever reason, none of this appears to have been challenged in the courts for bias in immigration policy. Which is why I still ask, do we have a locus standi on immigration policy? I am not convinced.

[qesehmk]

Hello Lure, I am sorry I was not really thinking of you at all. You seem to be new to the blog. Welcome.

As per legal opinion, I do not know eitherway. People will say that USCIS is already following laws on the books. But my argument is if certain laws result in discrimination and thus violate other laws then supreme court can and should intervene and nullify those provisions (viz. country caps) that result in discrimination.

I do agree with others that this will need at least a year of preparation and IMHO will require not one lawyer but a team of 4-5 lawyers.

One more thing - these lawyers need to be ones that are not just expert but fundamentally see how unjust the situation is.

Q - What in my response deserved such a strong outburst? Separately, do we know of any legal scholar who has opined on this? That there is indeed a case to be made based on constitutional rights? US has had some vein of per country limits since time immemorial. First, it was to ensure not too many Africans or southern and eastern Europeans could come, then it was the Chinese. Racial engineering appears to have been the norm in the evolution of immigration laws in this country. For whatever reason, none of this appears to have been challenged in the courts for bias in immigration policy. Which is why I still ask, do we have a locus standi on immigration policy? I am not convinced.

[TheLureoftheGreen]

Hello Lure, I am sorry I was not really thinking of you at all. You seem to be new to the blog. Welcome.

As per legal opinion, I do not know eitherway. People will say that USCIS is already following laws on the books. But my argument is if certain laws result in discrimination and thus violate other laws then supreme court can and should intervene and nullify those provisions (viz. country caps) that result in discrimination.

I do agree with others that this will need at least a year of preparation and IMHO will require not one lawyer but a team of 4-5 lawyers.

One more thing - these lawyers need to be ones that are not just expert but fundamentally see how unjust the situation is.

Thank you! And yes, I am new to the forum, and this is a gem of a site you run!

I suppose, as you said, we'll need a team, and that the crux of the issue probably needs to be that the law is unjust and capricious. Thanks for getting back.

[iatiam]

I would love to be part of this lawsuit - both financially (where desis throw in the towel) and also contribution wise.

Worse case the lawsuit is thrown out and we're out of 500-1000 bucks each, no big deal. Man ki shanti (Peace of mind) is important.

So, assuming this will cost 100K so hire a top firm, we need 100-200 individuals to be part of it. Is there any precedent of challenging an existing rule/law in court and winning. Anyway, IMO, it is still worth a shot. Even if we lose, it brings awareness. Especially ppl who have a PD in 2014-2015 and who are actually looking at 30-50 year wait, should have some case/merit.

So are you planning to start this initiative? You can post it in other immigration forums too and gain some momentum.

Iatiam

[GCGCGCGC]

Parents in backlog who have their kids aging out have a strong footing and they should consider spending 1K each to be part of a group for this lawsuit.

We however need to do some homework about which lawfirm/precedents etc. We just don't want to hand out money in hopes of winning. so please chime in on your thoughts.

Completely agree with you, Most of us can easily spend 1K for this cause.

[greenzone]

I would love to be part of this lawsuit - both financially (where desis throw in the towel) and also contribution wise.

Worse case the lawsuit is thrown out and we're out of 500-1000 bucks each, no big deal. Man ki shanti (Peace of mind) is important.

So, assuming this will cost 100K so hire a top firm, we need 100-200 individuals to be part of it. Is there any precedent of challenging an existing rule/law in court and winning. Anyway, IMO, it is still worth a shot. Even if we lose, it brings awareness. Especially ppl who have a PD in 2014-2015 and who are actually looking at 30-50 year wait, should have some case/merit.

I would love to part of this too. I think getting funds around 100k shouldn't be a problem as long as we work on initial case analysis and present it to backlogged folks. Initiation and finding team of lawyers to get an opinion on the possibility of filing a case is big challenge.
This is an interesting read. There are some cases challenging constitution - https://www.cnn.com/2013/06/21/us/to...cts/index.html

[need4speed]

This may be the nostrum we have been waiting for. I will be happy to contribute. Sounds like this hasn't been done, lets fund a team of lawyers and be cognizant about these possibilities.

[ak_bala]

I would like to be part of this, and will ask other friends to join.

[Raj0687]

Jessica Vaughn from CIS had an article where she says -

“I think it’s a bad idea to scrap the per-country caps, at least independently of a major overhaul of the entire system,” said Jessica Vaughan, director of policy studies for CIS. “It will reward this dysfunctional employment visa system, but also cut off the opportunity for green cards to people from the rest of the world, who tend to be more uniquely qualified than the folks who are waiting after having been contract H-1B workers.”

Per John Miano - "The green card backlog problem is overblown. It only affects a few countries that supply large numbers of H-1B workers."

CIS/Breitbart are immigrant haters and their so called "analysis" shows it clearly.

The way I look at this is little different, Ithink the H1B demand per population is same across the board.

For populous countries H1B demand is aggravating year by yeardue to the gc backlog, whereas workers from small countries doesn't need H1B ordoesn't need as many H1B renewals as worker from big country. For example,ROW students get GC with in their OPT period, so they don't need H1B, but allthe student from big countries must applying for H1B, that constitutes a of lotdemand.

I have seen many ROW students whose H1B is denied, but GC isapproved. It’s that easy for them to work here. S386 is the best bill, totighten the H1B rules, so everybody must apply & work on H1B and wait fairand equal amount of time to get GC.

People like CIS, breitbart don’t understand the root issue,but criticize the whole H1B program, because of some idiots misusing .

[Politicalpawn]

Gotta pile onto DACA lawsuit and argue whatever the outcome for DACA kids should be applicable for DALCA kids. Otherwise it is discrimination etc. etc.

[@rvsuc]

While evaluating the legal options to fight back against the challenges created by country-cap rule, we should aim to get I-140 EAD for principal and family members. It'll allow job portability, relief from H1 visa extension/stamping, and help H4 children to overcome the aging-out limitations. In the case of losing a protracted case against USCIS, we shouldn't end up back to square one again. Thus, I-140 EAD would certainly be a better solution for us, if not the one that we are all looking for.

[abcx13]

@Eaglenow - have you or IV considered reaching out to Indian origin CEOs and appealing to them in their personal capacity to rally support for this bill? Salesforce was able to get Indiana to drop its opposition to LGBT rights. Maybe if you got big time Indian CEOs like Sundar Pichai (Google), Satya Nadella (Microsoft), Shantanu Narayen (Adobe), Ajay Banga (Mastercard) involved, it might make a difference? Just a thought given Tim Cook's tweet and the fact that all the tech companies have historically been supportive of the bill. I think IV might need to align itself with heavier-hitters, whether it be tech companies, fwd.us, or heck, even the Koch brothers or someone else like that...

[GhostWriter]

I just meant that across nations and particularly US/UK protectionist policies are increasing. Both for outsourcing and immigration. Trade wars, check on immigration, Make in America, Brexit etc. The new narrative being embraced is that unchecked globalization (both outsourcing and immigration) has come at the expense of local people and industries. The fear of automation through AI is further compounding these concerns. Add to it the global slowdown and fear of US recession in next 1-2 years. One may agree or disagree about how true each of these things is but these concerns are going to drive political choices for a while imo. DoesnÂ’t matter who is in the white house. Earlier globalization used to be a Republican agenda and Trump won on the exact opposite agenda.

One would think that reducing outsourcing should call for more immigration but that does not seem to be the direction either.

There is no appetite for increase in immigration levels. Add to it the chaos in congress, what major bill or issue has been tackled in last 8-10 years - none, doesnÂ’t matter if its Dems or Republicans running the show. With that context it is a miracle that S386 has reached so close to the finish line.

Do you see it differently ? You always have very informed views with respect to bills and politics so would be interesting to know your thoughts.

To Ghostwriter

What do you imply by globalization reversal and the association with green card numbers?

[FarAwayfromGC]

@abcx13

I don't think any Indian Origin (PIO) CEOs will support other Indians, my personal opinion is either they are ignorant of their Country of Origin or they don't want to recognize themselves as Indians or they shy away form supporting a cause with no media coverage. BTW , the current situation helps them make more profit. But, there is no harm in trying. If Anyone can help with a list of PIO CEOs, I am ready to contact their media reps (old school tricks) and let you know (if anyone responds).

If it helps let it help.

[abcx13]

@abcx13

I don't think any Indian Origin (PIO) CEOs will support other Indians, my personal opinion is either they are ignorant of their Country of Origin or they don't want to recognize themselves as Indians or they shy away form supporting a cause with no media coverage. BTW , the current situation helps them make more profit. But, there is no harm in trying. If Anyone can help with a list of PIO CEOs, I am ready to contact their media reps (old school tricks) and let you know (if anyone responds).

If it helps let it help.

I think you are right that they often don't want to be recognized as Indians except when it suits them, but figured it might help. I don't know... don't have many great ideas. It's a depressing situation.

Anyway, this is the list I have:

Sundar Pichai (Google)
Satya Nadella (Microsoft)
Shantanu Narayen (Adobe)
Ajay Banga (Mastercard)
Aneel Bhusri (Workday)
Nikesh Arora (Palo Alto Networks, ex Google)
Ajit Jain (Berkshire Hathway)
Sanjay Jha (Global Foundries)
Vinod Khosla (Khosla Ventures, ex Sun)
Thomas Kurian (Google Cloud, ex Oracle)
Dinesh Paliwal (Harman International)
Sanjay Mehrotra (Sandisk)
Ram Shriram (Sherpalo Ventures)

Non-business luminaries who might be helpful:
Abhijit Banerjee (Nobel Laureate in Economics)
Nitin Nohria (Dean of HBS)

Ex business people:
Vikram Pandit (ex Citi)
Indra Nooyi (ex Pepsi)
Kanwal Rekhi (TiE Co-founder)

I used this list for ideas.

Edit: The list of successful Indian Americans is pretty darn impressive, and yet we are stuck in this stupid effing backlog.

[NJMavarick]

This from Charles Kuck

"It now appears likely that #S386 will be coming up for a vote on the Senate floor sometime tomorrow. This is NOT a UC vote. It is straight-up 60% vote, so if you think #NoS386 is the best outcome, you should be calling your Senator at 202-224-3121 today to oppose this bill."
4 mins ago

Maybe some light at the end of the tunnel.

I wonder, why would Charles be fearmongering! We all know the status of the bill as it stands today unless he thinks that the chances are increasing of this bill passing....

[FarAwayfromGC]

I think you are right that they often don't want to be recognized as Indians except when it suits them, but figured it might help. I don't know... don't have many great ideas. It's a depressing situation.

Anyway, this is the list I have:

Sundar Pichai (Google)
Satya Nadella (Microsoft)
Shantanu Narayen (Adobe)
Ajay Banga (Mastercard)
Aneel Bhusri (Workday)
Nikesh Arora (Palo Alto Networks, ex Google)
Ajit Jain (Berkshire Hathway)
Sanjay Jha (Global Foundries)
Vinod Khosla (Khosla Ventures, ex Sun)
Thomas Kurian (Google Cloud, ex Oracle)
Dinesh Paliwal (Harman International)
Sanjay Mehrotra (Sandisk)
Ram Shriram (Sherpalo Ventures)

Non-business luminaries who might be helpful:
Abhijit Banerjee (Nobel Laureate in Economics)
Nitin Nohria (Dean of HBS)

Ex business people:
Vikram Pandit (ex Citi)
Indra Nooyi (ex Pepsi)
Kanwal Rekhi (TiE Co-founder)

I used this list for ideas.

Edit: The list of successful Indian Americans is pretty darn impressive, and yet we are stuck in this stupid effing backlog.

@abcx13

Great !! Thanks for the list , let us see who all we can reach out to.

Q ,

Your comments or your suggestions will be helpful.

[gs1968]

I don't know what to say. Even though his viewpoint has shifted over the summer I still felt he was credible. Sometimes people can get carried away by listening to troll accounts in their echo chamber and be removed from reality. We will see

[qesehmk]

@abcx13

Great !! Thanks for the list , let us see who all we can reach out to.

Q ,

Your comments or your suggestions will be helpful.

Doesn't hurt to try at all - but their interests cut the interests of the backlogged folks. It is in Microsoft and Facebook's interest to have an immovable workforce. Ask most desi folks how much their salaries have increased post GC .... now the truth is most won't share ... but I will not be surprised to see 50-100 and even 300% hikes.

So that's what we are talking about. Somebody like Pichai will make a super show of empathy towards fellow desis. But the reality is he - just like all other succesful people - is a super focused person on his own career and well being. His interest is perfectly aligned with Google's interest.

So the question is how do you guys talk to Pichai and tell him how it is in google's interest that 1000s of their desi employees get out of the GC mess.

If you are realistic in what to expect from these people then it will help you better prepare for getting in front and making a case.

[abcx13]

Doesn't hurt to try at all - but their interests cut the interests of the backlogged folks. It is in Microsoft and Facebook's interest to have an immovable workforce. Ask most desi folks how much their salaries have increased post GC .... now the truth is most won't share ... but I will not be surprised to see 50-100 and even 300% hikes.

So that's what we are talking about. Somebody like Pichai will make a super show of empathy towards fellow desis. But the reality is he - just like all other succesful people - is a super focused person on his own career and well being. His interest is perfectly aligned with Google's interest.

So the question is how do you guys talk to Pichai and tell him how it is in google's interest that 1000s of their desi employees get out of the GC mess.

If you are realistic in what to expect from these people then it will help you better prepare for getting in front and making a case.

All the big tech companies have consistenly supported removal of country caps, even though you are obviously correct that it is cynically not in their best interest. The bigger issue for them than supressing wages is being able to reliably get employees, which has completely broken down under Trump and all the H1B RFEs. Meanwhile, there was an article in the WSJ about how B-School applications from international students are down - so the talent pool is not going to be what it once was. So you are correct in the short-term that higher wages for H1B holders becoming GC holders will hurt them, but in the long run, it gives them better talent, which they obviously want. I think they get the benfits of immigration. Maybe I'm being naive, but I think the big tech companies are a lot less cynical about H1B slaves than the WITCH companies.

And remember, we don't need all of them. We need a few of them to see our point of view and have empathy. And then maybe convince others and get the ball rolling. Hearts and minds ar

Anyway, FarAwayFromGC or EagleNow or Q, whoever wants to collaborate on a letter to these people, I am able and willing to assist. Please PM me if interested.

[mcmilers]

If Tim Cook is keeping his eyes on immigration issues and is willing to make a statement on twitter, I am sure other big CEOs can find some interest and time to do the same. As Q mentioned how can we get their attention and make this issue something they can get behind.
I work for a big company with a ton of immigrants and a very well known CEO. I can write him an email to see if he would be interested in listening to my story.