Bills, Rules & Politics

[imdeng]

Vedu - this is the perfect post for this time! Thank You!!

Everything you say is what all of us should be doing. I personally have followed everything you wrote except the house thing - selling a house in US is a piece of cake and the process can be pretty much automated with little to no personal involvement. A 2.75% mortgage was too juicy to pass up. But I still drive my 11 year old Toyota (runs like new) - so with you on the car thing.

I would really emphasize the saving and investing part. I particularly recommend the Boglehead approach (see bogleheads.org). The process becomes much easier if you can back that up with a sizable portfolio. Then even if GC doesn't work, your stay in the country has set you up for future.

[rock581]

Vedu -

Thanks for the post. It would have taken you an hour + to write this.

However, this is exactly the defeatist attitude that has been sinking Indians. No offense to you, there are some items that folks should be doing regardless.

The message should be to change the system and not sit back.

Guys,

The system is what it is. You have to work within the limits of the current system and do what's best for you. I have listed a few things below that you can do to safeguard your future. Note that practicing the art of delayed gratification is big part of it.

1. Find a job that you really enjoy, because you are going to stuck with it for a very long time. Even if it means transferring your immigration status to a new employer (H1b transfer, etc.)

2. Make sure your spouse doesn't sit idle either waiting for GC. She can either find a job for herself or advance her education that will make her employable and be able to get her own H1b (in case H4 EAD is gone, you should rely on nothing).

3. Work hard and make yourself indispensable to your employers.

4. Save, save, save, and invest, invest, invest with a good solid investment plan. There are no get rick quick schemes here. A good investment plan is always long term just like your GC wait (delayed gratification).

5. Do not lock yourself in any physical assets such as house, expensive cars, etc. In case something goes wrong and your have to leave the country, you should be able to liquidate everything with a click of a button. Renting is not bad no matter how much people will try to convince you the other way. Particularly, renting is not bad when your rent is paid from the dividends/capital gains from your investments that you made instead of putting that money towards down payments, big house expenses, etc.

6. The idea of the above two bullet points is that you should be in a position to retire comfortably in India if you have to go back because of the GC mess. Then if you decide to work in India, good for you. But it should be optional. Note that financial independence is the true independence. I have seen people who got the GC after a long time and then stuck themselves all over again in a big house and 30 year expensive mortgage. That type of independence is hollow.

7. Produce babies, at least two of them for reliability reasons (remember every plane has two engines in case one dies). When they become 21 years old (delayed gratification), they can sponsor your GC and you will get it with no wait. Now the game has changed. You are a parent of a U.S. citizen and the system will work for you whether you are in US or outside of US 5-10 years from now.

8. It seems one of the big things in desi community is to show their parents America. Make sure you do that at least once for both side parents, so that bucket list item will be off of your chest in case you have to leave the country. While they are here, they can also babysit your kids for 6 months at a time when you and your spouse are busy in your respective jobs.

Some of the above listed points may seem harsh and cold. But do you have any other alternative? As time passes, GC will become irrelevant. Waiting for GC when you have a million dollars in Bank is lot more fun than waiting for GC when you have only, say $25,000 in bank. Hope this helps!

[abcx13]

Congratulations on your canadian PR. I am curious if you live in US?

Thanks. Yes, I live in the US and am still here. I would not have applied if not for the mess that the US is.

I first heard about Canadian Express Entry last May, applied by September since I was eligible, was approved in December, received the counterfoil at the end of January, and did my 'landing' in September which starts the clock to spend 2 years there out of the next 5.

The US has been great for me professionally and economically, but I think Canada is better in most ways (for me) except that all my friends are in the US.

I started a thread here with my experience if anyone is interested.

https://www.qesehmk.org/forums/showt...ntry-PR-System

[rohanvus]

Congrats ! Great that you have a back-up all set for you

Btw , not all can get Canada PR via express entry route ,esp folks who have been here for more than a decade are already running into late 30's or early 40's .
W/O express entry(which requires score 450 upwards these days) or job offer its just impossible , so moving up north is another mirage for most of aged folks .

[iatiam]

There is not really anything I can say that can really help you and others with your hurt.

But I just wanted to say that America sure has a racist past as well as its fair share of racism even today. However America is not a racist country. I know today my words may not make much sense to you. But hopefully someday you will realize this.

Immigration policy used to be driven purely through economic and geopolitical objectives. The Trump folks have injected racism into it. But America will bounce back to sanity sooner or later.

So a Democratic senator blocked a common sense bill and openly mocked Indians but somehow this is Trump's fault becaus because you think he is a racist. Weird

[Greentothemoon]

Vedu,

Most of the points are very valid. I have different opinion about owning a house Vs Rental. I would rather pay mortgage than all time high rent. Rates are very low. At the end of the day you own hard asset (House) in the safe jurisdiction (USA). In worse case scenario, If, we have to leave the US we have two choices.
1. Put the house on the rent through management company (they usually charge 7%-10% of rent, remaining rent you will get in the bank every month) and pay the mortgage though rent. finally house will pay off by itself. when you return to US in the future you have it for yourself. OR
2. sell the house, easy now a days provided its not in remote or rural area . you can buy and sell house in US without physical presence in US. I have confirm this through my realtor when I bought the house.

Every year people are migrating to USA through family and employment GCs (just keep in mind) and housing is back up by Fed and US govt. Even though housing market will collapse like 2008 ,it will recovery sooner or later. we are due for another recession . I would prefer real assets over paper assets during recession time.
>We all get one life. Chasing green card dream is overwhelming and beyond our control. We could miss our present for future. We all came here to improve our quality of life and increase our financial situation.
>I can share my personal experience. I have been working with elderly population from last 11 years as PT. I have seen all kind of life scenario occurs during old age. I can tell you its not fun guys (With money or without money). I have worked with wealthiest clients as well. They all share one phrase with me, Do not get old . Moral of the story is have some fun with family and friends during this prime years of life.
Once again, Thank you Vedu for valuable post, timing could not be better.
Cheers..!!!

[Greentothemoon]

To soon to call it dead. We still have time left in this congress. We all are very upset. I would resist to call whole USA racist becoz of 1 senator action. House passed the bill with major support of Ds. It is the working nature of US senate that gives power to each senator to hold such overwhelmingly supported bill. US senate is close club of 100 representatives and they uses UC as method to pass majority of bills. Why Modi should care for this bill. He has bigger fish to fry. He has to take care the interest of 1.2 billion our fellow Indians which includes trade deals, pak -kashmir issues and many more. He might loose leverage if he ask to pass our bill. I do not think Trump can even help in this case. Hold is by Ds. US congress is hugely divided right now.
It is always harder to remove something which is in place for long time. especially related to Govt and needs political will. Examples: H4EAD, DACA, per county cap or article 370 and 35A.
Cheers..!!

[Greentothemoon]

To soon to call it dead. We still have time left in this congress. We all are very upset. I would resist to call whole USA racist becoz of 1 senator action. House passed the bill with major support of Ds. It is the working nature of US senate that gives power to each senator to hold such overwhelmingly supported bill. US senate is close club of 100 representatives and they uses UC as method to pass majority of bills. Why Modi should care for this bill. He has bigger fish to fry. He has to take care the interest of 1.2 billion our fellow Indians which includes trade deals, pak -kashmir issues and many more. He might loose leverage if he ask to pass our bill. I do not think Trump can even help in this case. Hold is by Ds. US congress is hugely divided right now.
It is always harder to remove something which is in place for long time. especially related to Govt and needs political will. Examples: H4EAD, DACA, per county cap or article 370 and 35A.
Cheers..!!

[vedu]

Vedu,

Most of the points are very valid. I have different opinion about owning a house Vs Rental. I would rather pay mortgage than all time high rent. Rates are very low. At the end of the day you own hard asset (House) in the safe jurisdiction (USA). In worse case scenario, If, we have to leave the US we have two choices.
1. Put the house on the rent through management company (they usually charge 7%-10% of rent, remaining rent you will get in the bank every month) and pay the mortgage though rent. finally house will pay off by itself. when you return to US in the future you have it for yourself. OR
2. sell the house, easy now a days provided its not in remote or rural area . you can buy and sell house in US without physical presence in US. I have confirm this through my realtor when I bought the house.

Every year people are migrating to USA through family and employment GCs (just keep in mind) and housing is back up by Fed and US govt. Even though housing market will collapse like 2008 ,it will recovery sooner or later. we are due for another recession . I would prefer real assets over paper assets during recession time.
>We all get one life. Chasing green card dream is overwhelming and beyond our control. We could miss our present for future. We all came here to improve our quality of life and increase our financial situation.
>I can share my personal experience. I have been working with elderly population from last 11 years as PT. I have seen all kind of life scenario occurs during old age. I can tell you its not fun guys (With money or without money). I have worked with wealthiest clients as well. They all share one phrase with me, Do not get old . Moral of the story is have some fun with family and friends during this prime years of life.
Once again, Thank you Vedu for valuable post, timing could not be better.
Cheers..!!!

Greentothemoon,

Thank you for sharing your thoughts. I appreciate yours and imdeng's point of view about owning vs renting. That's probably the most complex decision. Below are my thoughts on that subject:

1. In a perfectly efficient housing market, the laws of supply and demand dictate that economically renting should equate to owning. But the market is never perfectly efficient, and so, if you buy a moderate size house and live in it for a long time, you will probably come up a little ahead.

2. One never really owns the house outright even after paying the mortgage in full. One still needs to pay the rent in terms of property tax, HOA fee if applicable, maintenance, home insurance, etc., etc. These things are never going to go away and they constitute up to 3-4 months of renting. You also need to be a handyman and enjoy the chores like lawn mowing, snow removal, etc.

3. If you rent an apartment in a big apartment complex, you get the benefit of economies of scale and thus, comparatively lower rent. The rent also comes with maintenance, landscaping, and other services included. You get access to well-equipped gym and a swimming pool in the same rent amount without having to worry about maintenance of any of these facilities. That's well worth some paying some extra premium over owning a house outright. Now, if you want to rent and individual house, then that's a different story and can be more expensive.

4. When you rent, you can easily downsize, up-size as per your needs, relocate to different school districts if needed, etc.

5. The idea of owning a hard asset is more of a psychological. For example, if you own a stock of a public company, the underlying company also has hard assets such as buildings, other equipment, etc. that you own a share of. Just like how a house can be manged through a management company, the public companies that you own through their shares also have a management in place to take care of their assets, and they will send you the part of the profit via dividends. But there are certain advantages in owning stocks vs real estate. The management company of your real estate will send you the full rent income after taking their commission out because they cannot use that money to grow your asset, and then you are liable to pay income taxes on that income before reinvesting the money somewhere else. So, there are frictional costs involved. Whereas, in a public company, a good management reuses your share of income (the portion that is not paid to you in terms of dividends) to grow the company, and in essence, your money keeps compounding without paying intermediate taxes on an annual basis, and that makes a big difference in the long term.

6. Like you pointed out that housing market always recovers, so does the stock market. And if one knows how to value businesses conservatively, and have a good investment strategy in place (like the bogleheads philosophy mentioned by imdeng), it will help navigate through rough weather.

Don't get me wrong. Owning a house certainly has its own advantages, but most of them are psychological in nature. Very few will stand on pure economic rational. In the end, owning vs renting remains a difficult decision and to each his own!

[abcx13]

Congrats ! Great that you have a back-up all set for you

Btw , not all can get Canada PR via express entry route ,esp folks who have been here for more than a decade are already running into late 30's or early 40's .
W/O express entry(which requires score 450 upwards these days) or job offer its just impossible , so moving up north is another mirage for most of aged folks .

Yes, totally fair. I was just mentioning it in case there are younger folks on here for whom it might be an option. I only heard about it last year through a friend just by chance, even though I would have been eligible for Express Entry a couple of years before. I have mentioned it to friends of my age in similar situations in the US and most seem to prefer living here on H1Bs bhagwan bharose instead of putting in the very minimal effort for Express Entry, which I find kind of crazy especially now that there is no certainty of even getting H1Bs renewed.

[qesehmk]

So a Democratic senator blocked a common sense bill and openly mocked Indians but somehow this is Trump's fault becaus because you think he is a racist. Weird

I have been saying this for a very very long time. Indian backlogged folks are victims of economic and geopolitical forces that drive immigration policy. With trump "Race" has come into the equation.

Those who oppose the latest bill on economic or geopolitical objectives, you can argue with them and convince them about fairness in immigration. People like Dick Durban.

Trump and his supporters do not want ANY brown and black immigration. PERIOD. Thinking otherwise is naive.

[qesehmk]

Again best wishes and congrats on canadian PR.

Please do some research about travel to Canada and back. There are some horror stories about people losing their US GC altogether when holding canadian GC and applying for US GC at the same time. They may be exception. I am not very knowledgeable about this topic. But what I have read in the past shook me.

That's why I just want you to be careful and well educated on the topic and also please help others once you do your own DD.

Thanks. Yes, I live in the US and am still here. I would not have applied if not for the mess that the US is.

I first heard about Canadian Express Entry last May, applied by September since I was eligible, was approved in December, received the counterfoil at the end of January, and did my 'landing' in September which starts the clock to spend 2 years there out of the next 5.

The US has been great for me professionally and economically, but I think Canada is better in most ways (for me) except that all my friends are in the US.

I started a thread here with my experience if anyone is interested.

https://www.qesehmk.org/forums/showt...ntry-PR-System

[ziggy2k]

Guys,

The system is what it is. You have to work within the limits of the current system and do what's best for you. I have listed a few things below that you can do to safeguard your future. Note that practicing the art of delayed gratification is big part of it.

Some of the above listed points may seem harsh and cold. But do you have any other alternative? As time passes, GC will become irrelevant. Waiting for GC when you have a million dollars in Bank is lot more fun than waiting for GC when you have only, say $25,000 in bank. Hope this helps!

You make some good points; but to me it sounds an awful lot like structuring an entire life around a permanent residency. Personally I do not think the permanent residency of any country is worth that much effort. The world's a big place.

Regarding renting vs buying: you make some fantastic points. We purchased a house recently after renting the same apartment for roughly a decade. It's quite a money sink compared to renting (e.g. the property taxes for a year == rent for a year). Fiscal issues aside it's been a unique experience so far. We also got to host our parents for ~4 months in the U.S., you could argue that we could have rented a home for a year and then back to an apartment but at this stage of our lives it seems like an enormous hassle.

I agree that we should work to change the system wherever possible.

[kb2013]

< >

[qesehmk]

Thread is open. Please post facts, analysis and balanced information and views.

Rational posts without passion serve backlog candidates much better.

[Politicalpawn]

It is CY Q3 2010, so I am not sure waiting till 2021 might make any difference, unless Dems win and prioritize CIR in their first few years. Yeah, we wont make a knee jerk reaction, as it is evident by 5+ H1B extensions. . All I am saying is, I am fairly confident that I will do well career wise whether I am here or in India or in a different country. I have always worked in corporate setting, and while I fantasize about running a start up, I am not sure whether I will take that plunge. But, we will keep looking around and potentially jump if the opportunity is right. I know a lot of my ex-colleagues who are doing very well back there.

Frankly, with the whole GC thing, I am past the point of how I can use my GC to further my career etc. because technically, I can still go through the H1B route and still have a job. Two things that bother me are 1) The fact that in 2019, there are people in the congress who defend the per-country limits for EB visa. It obviously bothers me because I am impacted, but I feel this is a question of basic fairness and equality and one should not be fighting for decades for this change. 2) Anything can happen with jobs. For example, if there is a recession and there is a mass layoff, I dont want to be forced to leave the country in short notice, and all the pain that comes with that - a) older kids, b) older me making it harder to find jobs c) selling the house during a downturn etc, etc. On whether I will be at peace with myself, that will depend on how life after the change goes. If it doesnt go great, I am not mature enough (I know that) to accept that it was driven by my decision to move.

Lets hope common sense prevails and there is some change in law.

[this2shallpass]

I am not a fan of **. But you must understand they are the only ones who are doing something / anything. To be honest what they are doing is absolutely inconsequential. They should have focused on suing US government / USCIS for discrimination based on nationality.

Enough said ...

Couldn't agree more with you. Instead of taking a begging bowl to every representative, Only way to fight this battle is in the courts . No one ever got equality & fairness by requesting for it because there is always someone else on the other side who would have to give up something for things to be equal. Change is not easy. Our first and last resorts are the judicial system .

I do credit the organisation for their spirited fight, heck no one else even comes closer to what they have done . I just wish they channelize it in the right direction.

[@rvsuc]

I am in the same boat, My Son is in college and on H4, He will turn 21 next year. He can't work and he can't do any internship jobs on H4. As I know there is no OPT for BS. Only STEM Masters will give OPT to work. So looking at options. He is preparing to apply for MS.

I am not aware of I-140 EAD, Please update once you hear from your Attorney.

Spec, Q and other guru's - Please share if you have any additional information I-140 EAD and H4 age out dependent options.

Thank you.

If not passing S386, at least the Congress can provide a relief to GC backlogged community by passing a bill for "I-140 based EAD for the primary applicant and family members". This would specifically help the H4 children from college admission as well as aging-out related issues.

[iatiam]

Couldn't agree more with you. Instead of taking a begging bowl to every representative, Only way to fight this battle is in the courts . No one ever got equality & fairness by requesting for it because there is always someone else on the other side who would have to give up something for things to be equal. Change is not easy. Our first and last resorts are the judicial system .

I do credit the organisation for their spirited fight, heck no one else even comes closer to what they have done . I just wish they channelize it in the right direction.

Perhaps you should sue the government then

[TheLureoftheGreen]

Perhaps you should sue the government then

I sense sarcasm. Sue the government for what exactly? For exercising its sovereign right to decide its immigration policy? Besides, do we have any locus standi on immigration policy?

[iatiam]

I sense sarcasm. Sue the government for what exactly? For exercising its sovereign right to decide its immigration policy? Besides, do we have any locus standi on immigration policy?

Exactly, I don't like your laws so I will see you in court. Lol I genuinely want to see a bunch of Indians spend their money to do this and then lose in court. Perhaps it will stop this idiotic conversation once and for all.

Iatiam

[qesehmk]

In this country you can sue government. US has anti discrimination laws that are being violated in case of backlogged candidates. Those who have thin skin and thick skull need not sue anybody. I am preaching to those who may have courage and desire to do something different. The worst case result will be that the lawsuit will be thrown out..... but even then the national press will take note and it will help build public opinion for the backlogged candidates - if you play it well.

[smuggymba]

Exactly, I don't like your laws so I will see you in court. Lol I genuinely want to see a bunch of Indians spend their money to do this and then lose in court. Perhaps it will stop this idiotic conversation once and for all.

Iatiam

I would love to be part of this lawsuit - both financially (where desis throw in the towel) and also contribution wise.

Worse case the lawsuit is thrown out and we're out of 500-1000 bucks each, no big deal. Man ki shanti (Peace of mind) is important.

So, assuming this will cost 100K so hire a top firm, we need 100-200 individuals to be part of it. Is there any precedent of challenging an existing rule/law in court and winning. Anyway, IMO, it is still worth a shot. Even if we lose, it brings awareness. Especially ppl who have a PD in 2014-2015 and who are actually looking at 30-50 year wait, should have some case/merit.

[GCGCGCGC]

I would love to be part of this lawsuit - both financially (where desis throw in the towel) and also contribution wise.

Worse case the lawsuit is thrown out and we're out of 500-1000 bucks each, no big deal. Man ki shanti (Peace of mind) is important.

So, assuming this will cost 100K so hire a top firm, we need 100-200 individuals to be part of it. Is there any precedent of challenging an existing rule/law in court and winning. Anyway, IMO, it is still worth a shot. Even if we lose, it brings awareness. Especially ppl who have a PD in 2014-2015 and who are actually looking at 30-50 year wait, should have some case/merit.

As Q said all backlogged should approach court, we may loose but definitely it will bring awareness.

[smuggymba]

As Q said all backlogged should approach court, we may loose but definitely it will bring awareness.

Parents in backlog who have their kids aging out have a strong footing and they should consider spending 1K each to be part of a group for this lawsuit.

We however need to do some homework about which lawfirm/precedents etc. We just don't want to hand out money in hopes of winning. so please chime in on your thoughts.