Discussion On The Politics of Immigration Reform (Comprehensive Or Otherwise)

[Prabhas]

Guys,

Please consider this news with a pinch of salt!

I did see similar news floating in many sites for few weeks now but this info I got is from quite a good internal source a Federal Employee and they got orders to bring out a process to give out *** for H4's. Well that's a sure shot administrative fix we know will come to reality this time but the other mandatory fix that these offices are talking as a second mandatory fix by the president is 'Remove Dependents from the Immigration GC Visa Cap' . Recapture of Visas is very unlikely as per these sources. But if we get the dependents removed from the count then I believe that's a huge relief for the EB population overall.

I hope this news turns out true and since Obama will be traveling next week, he needs to gets this done within this week. lets stay tuned.

V

[feedmyback]

I don't know the possibilities. Ideally all I140 approved candidates should be able to apply for EAD. But if for some reason, that is also very difficult, at least people who have finished 6 years on H1 and I 140 approved should be eligible. Basically same pre conditions as laid out for H4 EAD as of now.

[kkruna]

Guys,

Please consider this news with a pinch of salt!

I did see similar news floating in many sites for few weeks now but this info I got is from quite a good internal source a Federal Employee and they got orders to bring out a process to give out *** for H4's. Well that's a sure shot administrative fix we know will come to reality this time but the other mandatory fix that these offices are talking as a second mandatory fix by the president is 'Remove Dependents from the Immigration GC Visa Cap' . Recapture of Visas is very unlikely as per these sources. But if we get the dependents removed from the count then I believe that's a huge relief for the EB population overall.

I hope this news turns out true and since Obama will be traveling next week, he needs to gets this done within this week. lets stay tuned.

V

If true, this is a real 'scoop' even when sprinked with salt.

[vizcard]

Guys,

Please consider this news with a pinch of salt!

I did see similar news floating in many sites for few weeks now but this info I got is from quite a good internal source a Federal Employee and they got orders to bring out a process to give out *** for H4's. Well that's a sure shot administrative fix we know will come to reality this time but the other mandatory fix that these offices are talking as a second mandatory fix by the president is 'Remove Dependents from the Immigration GC Visa Cap' . Recapture of Visas is very unlikely as per these sources. But if we get the dependents removed from the count then I believe that's a huge relief for the EB population overall.

I hope this news turns out true and since Obama will be traveling next week, he needs to gets this done within this week. lets stay tuned.

V

Immigration Voice says it's not possible through executive action. This is what they say
-----------

We have received multiple inquiries about what is going on with the EB admin fixes. Rather than answering each message individually, here is our attempt to clear some air.

Apparently, there are some people posting online that a decision could soon be made on recapture of unused immigrant visas. This is not true. Recapture was briefly discussed sometime back but it was decided that recapture of unused visas cannot be done through administrative means. Same goes for exempting dependents. Things can always change, but just so you know, no such decision is pending on recapture this week.

For the sake of clarity, let us also share some important information about EAD for H-4 rule. This fix was already announced over 2 months back. USCIS/DHS is reviewing submitted comments to the notification. After the review of the comments is complete, DHS will issue final ruling. So it is just a matter of time. The decision for EAD for H-4 was already made some time back and no more decision making from the President of DHS is needed. DHS/USCIS is currently reviewing the comments and the final rule will be announced soon (no specific timeline available).

If it was possible within the existing framework of law, without a doubt we would have preferred more green cards, whichever means these green cards would come. However, at this time, that is not possible within the existing law. We have also asked for recapture of unused green cards and exempting dependents from numerical limits. But as it appears, these fixes cannot be done through Administrative method within the existing law. As it appears right now, recapture of unused green cards and exempting dependents from numerical limits will require Congressional action.

Therefore, our focus is on fixes that will help improve quality of life for EB applicants. Our fixes will allow everyone to live a free life and be able to do the things each one is potentially capable of doing. Our suggestions are focused on fixes that will allow EB immigrants to change jobs/employers after immigrant petition, clarity with what jobs one can change into, access to immigration (green card and H1/L1 application and decision notices) required to change job, not having to restart green card process after approval of I-140, long term EAD and AP so EB applicants and employers are not stressed out over receiving EAD renewals on time, and other such fixes.

We believe that these minor technical fixes will help improve the quality of life of over a million skilled immigrants and their families stuck in green card backlogs.

We are attempting to keep things clear as much possible for everyone waiting in EB backlogs. As Admin fix process unfolds, you will probably read all sorts of news/information online. For your own benefit, please filtering facts from fiction when consuming information available online.

[Prabhas]

Immigration Voice says it's not possible through executive action. This is what they say
-----------

We have received multiple inquiries about what is going on with the EB admin fixes. Rather than answering each message individually, here is our attempt to clear some air.

Apparently, there are some people posting online that a decision could soon be made on recapture of unused immigrant visas. This is not true. Recapture was briefly discussed sometime back but it was decided that recapture of unused visas cannot be done through administrative means. Same goes for exempting dependents. Things can always change, but just so you know, no such decision is pending on recapture this week.

For the sake of clarity, let us also share some important information about EAD for H-4 rule. This fix was already announced over 2 months back. USCIS/DHS is reviewing submitted comments to the notification. After the review of the comments is complete, DHS will issue final ruling. So it is just a matter of time. The decision for EAD for H-4 was already made some time back and no more decision making from the President of DHS is needed. DHS/USCIS is currently reviewing the comments and the final rule will be announced soon (no specific timeline available).

If it was possible within the existing framework of law, without a doubt we would have preferred more green cards, whichever means these green cards would come. However, at this time, that is not possible within the existing law. We have also asked for recapture of unused green cards and exempting dependents from numerical limits. But as it appears, these fixes cannot be done through Administrative method within the existing law. As it appears right now, recapture of unused green cards and exempting dependents from numerical limits will require Congressional action.

Therefore, our focus is on fixes that will help improve quality of life for EB applicants. Our fixes will allow everyone to live a free life and be able to do the things each one is potentially capable of doing. Our suggestions are focused on fixes that will allow EB immigrants to change jobs/employers after immigrant petition, clarity with what jobs one can change into, access to immigration (green card and H1/L1 application and decision notices) required to change job, not having to restart green card process after approval of I-140, long term EAD and AP so EB applicants and employers are not stressed out over receiving EAD renewals on time, and other such fixes.

We believe that these minor technical fixes will help improve the quality of life of over a million skilled immigrants and their families stuck in green card backlogs.

We are attempting to keep things clear as much possible for everyone waiting in EB backlogs. As Admin fix process unfolds, you will probably read all sorts of news/information online. For your own benefit, please filtering facts from fiction when consuming information available online.

Viz,

Thanks for enlightening me with this information. I was actually very skeptical about writing that message just with the intention of not to give any false hopes to our aspirants but I slipped. I should have read the earlier messages on this thread.

I didnt realize that there is one such thread until you moved my post here.

Regards,

V

[migo79]

I pay lots of respect to members and gurus of this forum and their opinions always as bright,

seeing this:
http://shusterman.com/obama-double-n...een-cards.html

i'm not sure if AILA is pushing hard on such actions and they don't know the law, Carl Shusterman is a reputable immigration AttorneyI believe and he still says.

The State Department has always interpreted these numerical caps to include that not only the principal beneficiary, but all the derivative beneficiaries of a petition. However, this policy is subject to change since it is not mandated by law.

now we have ~3 weeks till the summer officially over, ~2 weeks before congress coming out of recess.

I really want that hype to be over very soon, to count or not to count :-)

[Jonty Rhodes]

I pay lots of respect to members and gurus of this forum and their opinions always as bright,

seeing this:
http://shusterman.com/obama-double-n...een-cards.html

i'm not sure if AILA is pushing hard on such actions and they don't know the law, Carl Shusterman is a reputable immigration lawyer I believe and he still says.



now we have ~3 weeks till the summer officially over, ~2 weeks before congress coming out of recess.

I really want that hype to be over very soon, to count or not to count :-)

This is interesting considering its coming from a reputable immigration attorney. There has been a lot of talk especially in last 2 days about the upcoming EO since the President has returned from vacation. He is traveling next week so essentially he has either this week to do something or 2 weeks after next week. White House Spokesperson mentioned yesterday about something happening before 21st September, which is the end of summer. Today, I read that Luis Guiterrez and 30 other immigration advocates gathered at Mayor Rahm Emmanuel's office in Chicago to "get ready" for EO (whatever that means) and Guiterrez was boasting about his source in the White House who reportedly told him that possibly 5 million illegals may be given legal status with EO. Also, there are various sources talking about the possibility of removing dependents.

Now, personally I believe that nothing of this sorts is going to happen. If there is an EO, it most likely may involve border security. DACA alone will not go down very well with public but if it is combined with border security, than it may be just a little more palatable.

The big question for EB community is, "Can the President remove dependents from the numerical limits?" And if he can, the next question is "Will he do it?"

I don't have lot of hopes. If it happens, great. If it doesn't, life will go on. I have seen my hopes getting dashed too many times and I am not very optimistic or enthusiastic about this unless some real ground action takes place this time.

I am not even looking forward to EAD for H4 at this time unless it is implemented in reality.

[migo79]

exactly, Shusterman is well reputable, testified before the senate so if he is saying this with no ground it would be serious credibility issue.

and yes even Fox news i saw report they got one lawyer to discuss that the Obama will free up around 800,000 GC visa annually.

the president is walking a hard road no matter if he did / didn't do anything, he should shoot as high as he can.

on another hand looking at expanding DACA, they said that he will consider EAD for parents of US citizen, here is the kicker
well that include legal immigrants that have US child? that's interesting
he cannot differentiate between US citizens so if he do that for illegals then legals should get a long with it as well.

one thing i'm sure of if he do anything it won't be for illegal alone, legals will find their way inside with this push from immigration advocates and businesses.

3 weeks, let's see

[migo79]

here is another one,
now the question not if he will act, it's what scale he will go for :-)

WASHINGTON — President Barack Obama is poised to take action on immigration by the end of September, with the White House working on details relating to significant policy changes in the wake of Congress failing to act, sources told me.

Sources who have been in meetings at the White House said the decision for Obama to act has been made, legal reviews have been conducted, and “right now it is a question of timing, scale, how to pay for it and how to make it work.”

and:

The Associated Press reported this week that Obama is considering executive actions on changes in the nation's immigration system that have been requested by business leaders. One potential step that's popular among business and family groups is a change in the way green cards are counted that would essentially free up some 800,000 additional visas the first year, the AP reported.

more interesting one ( ican only access it via google cache since it is a paid subscription, note that it is from NJ Law Journal)

To the question of whether the president can change DHS's long-standing interpretation of counting family members toward the per-country green card quota, he certainly can, but, if challenged, the president/DHS may have a tough time sustaining such a battle. Once DHS changes its interpretation, it might not be entitled to Chevron deference. Note that not all agency interpretations are given Chevron deference. The U.S. Supreme Court has specifically stated that only interpretations arrived at through certain procedures (such as formal adjudications and notice-and-comment rulemaking, or by some other indication of a comparable congressional intent) qualify for Chevron deference. Above all, DHS will face an even greater challenge defending the new interpretation when the same agency has been interpreting the law differently for so many years.

Based on the foregoing, it can be concluded that though the president can use his authority to maneuver within the boundary that has already been set by the Congress through enacted legislation

http://webcache.googleusercontent.co...&ct=clnk&gl=us


so now what? again wait and see :-D
but now more lawyers (NJ Law journal is a reputable one) are saying that he can do although can be challenged, but he can do.

now Obamacare got challenged and the court said he has overreached, eventhough it is still a law.

so now i really hope that he can do it and solve the misery of the people and make a fair policy change.

[qesehmk]

...but now more lawyers (NJ Law journal is a reputable one) are saying that he can do although can be challenged, but he can do.

I absolutely believe that. However the million dollar question is - will he?

If you carefully read schusterman's article - he also says that the president is "considering".

"Considering" keeps it wide open!!

[seattlet]

my concern is what happens if the next president decides to revoke the executive order which Obama signs. Since it is not the law, will folks be in limbo if the EO is retracted / not enforced by the new president's cabinet ?

In cases where a green card is issued based on an EO (like counting dependents as one), can they rescind the green card ?

my concern is that politicians would do anything to get votes but something like green card cannot be given and taken back (which might be possible since there is no law to safeguard folks who get it )

If a law was changed /revoked, I believe there is some protection to those actions which happened under the old law (which can be argued in the court ) but Im not sure if the court would provide such protection to actions performed under an rescinded EO.

(if Obama cared about legals he would have done something in 6 years, so I dont
believe he has any intention of helping legal immigrants without doing something for illegals who's extended families are his vote base)

I believe if both the senate and congress end up having the same party as majority, legals will definitely get something. November is not far
away so I hope that happens. If Dems get congress, illegals benefit, if Reps gets it, illegals doomed.

I absolutely believe that. However the million dollar question is - will he?

If you carefully read schusterman's article - he also says that the president is "considering".

"Considering" keeps it wide open!!

[qesehmk]

my concern is what happens if the next president decides to revoke the executive order which Obama signs. Since it is not the law, will folks be in limbo if the EO is retracted / not enforced by the new president's cabinet ?

I am 99.99% confident that if once issued such a green card will not be revoked for reasons you are afraid of. This is a country of immigrants and you will be surprised how many Americans actually like immigrants.

However of course next president may consider revoking such EO. In fact I am not even sure if an EO is a permanent thing. I really do not know. I would've thought that an EO is administration specific policy. So by default it may get changed once a new administration comes in.

However once (if at all) this change in policy happens - there is very little incentive for the new administration NOT to continue old policy. See .. every change has its cost and benefits. If Obama does this change he will have already paid the cost and reaped benefit. So the new administration will have to weigh in costs and benefits anew. And my guess is the benefits will not outweigh costs.

p.s.. - but to be honest we are counting chickens very very prematurely. I haven't seen any strong indication about such a change.

[imdeng]

Couple of quick thoughts:

1. EOs are of course not permanent. They are valid until another EO or a legislation puts an end to it. However, in politics, it is very difficult to take things away once they are given (prime example - DACA - it is NEVER getting repealed, also ACA after the implementation). Even if the EO gets challenged and defeated, no future president will take 5 million EADs and hundreds of thousands of GCs away - they will be grandfathered into whatever new system emerges. Look at the same sex marriage thing - all the folks who married in California before Prop 8, their marriages continued to be valid despite SSM being outlawed following Prop 8.
2. Obama is frustrated with the congress and is has now gone in attack mode. I have been amazed at the change in him in recent speeches - its like he is running for office again. He is looking to pick a fight.
3. Its a question of legacy - after the mid-term all focus will shift to the 2016 race - so he has to make his mark in next few months. If he manages to clear 5 million undocumented into legal EAD rolls and clear EB backlog by whatever means - Latinos and Asians will hail him no matter what. I will personally be a lifelong Dem voter and donor - and I am sure many many more.
4. Obama knows that Republicans will shout to high heavens at an EO - small or big - and one of the purpose of the whole exercise is to bait them into overreacting, impeaching, just getting into even more anto-latino, anti-immigrant mode. So it makes sense for Obama to go all in even if the legal rational is a little dubious.
5. Doing something for legal immigration balances the charge of Latino-pandering and brings business money in support of the EO. So there will be a legal immigration angle - how big is something remains to be seen.

I hope Obama takes a grand stand. We will get to know pretty soon.

[moon80]

News slowly picking up again:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/politi...d33_story.html

[migo79]

of course Q, the question is will he do it :-)

in the WH Spox briefing today he said / reiterated on a question on immigration that the Pres. will act on a ***Comprehensive*** immigration reform before summer end.

another article on USA today this morning also state he is considering the technical change in the visa count.
bboth Washignotn Post and USA Today are both saying that by doing this he is ensuring het get the business support by his side which they are usually pro GOP.

i'm cautiously optimistic :-)

[imdeng]

From today's USA Today: http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/p...view/14289613/

Business groups are pressing the White House to change some regulations that govern foreigners trying to enter and work in the USA. For example, a technical change in federal regulations could free up hundreds of thousands of green cards for foreign workers. Obama could also change a rule that restricts the spouses of foreigners working in high-tech fields from working while in the country.

I am not sure which technical change they are referring to. Has to be one (or both) of Visa Recapture and Dependent Counting.

[qbloguser]

Oh Yes, How can we forget this other party called GOP?

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/latino/g...ration-n190696

From today's USA Today: http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/p...view/14289613/



I am not sure which technical change they are referring to. Has to be one (or both) of Visa Recapture and Dependent Counting.

[Jonty Rhodes]

It is all over media now. Executive Action was supposed to come before Labor Day but now it is supposed to come after President returns from Estonia and Wales. That would be after September 7. The question is how far the President would go in his EO for legal immigrants.

http://thehill.com/homenews/administ...on-immigration

Not that I am very hopeful of anything significant happening for legals, it was still interesting to read what Mr. Bo Cooper (Former General Counsel for INS) said here.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/politi...d33_story.html

Several immigration lawyers said Tuesday that U.S. legal statutes governing the green card limits are ambiguous about whether siblings, spouses and children must be counted. Bo Cooper, who served as general counsel for what was then the Immigration and Naturalization Service from 1999 to 2003, called the statutes among the “messiest” areas of immigration law.

“In that situation, the courts have traditionally given the executive branch a great deal of deference in interpreting the statute and supplying the answer as long as it is reasonable,” Cooper said. “The administration, no matter what it’s doing this fall, will try to make sure it hews to its legal authority. The question is how willing they’ll find themselves able to move into space that the statute gives them.”

What I derive from Mr. Cooper's statement is that dependents can be exempted from the numerical limits and only Principal applicant can be counted and this is an ambiguous area where the law can be interpreted differently.

Lets see what happens.

[migo79]

He was suppose to announce the actions before Congress comes back second week of august, he still has some time though

and now we only have to wait and see if he will do it.
Media coverage even in FoxNews are saying that this GC count are the least controversial since it has big support by community and business.

but giving the fact that news coverage for Visa recapture gone and the focus is on GC count, makes it feel there is something coming up

[CleanSock]

Is Obama talking about postponing the EO to after mid term elections?

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/...0GS2LP20140828

[nbk1976]

This would changes everything: Get the USCIS "off our backs" once I-485 is filed. Even if the date retrogresses, as long as the I-485 application was bona fide and gets pre-approved, all benefits of the GC should be given: easy switching between jobs, even change of career to a different job, starting ones own company, and unrestricted travel, etc.

[dec2010]

FWIW, IMO - GOP threat to attach border bill/EO to budget vote is a credible threat/opportunity.
>> either Pres does not want gov shut down,hence delay EO till/after midterm and talk of hope
>> or he wants GOP to shutdown gov closer to midterm elections (considering GOP is poised to take senate/even 535 is suggesting so)

my guess is - WH is looking at poll numbers and read on polls will decide 'when' part of the EO.

[mohan_jgd]

No guarentees that EO may come in Sept. May be postponed too.

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories...RATION?SITE=AP

[Jonty Rhodes]

Is Obama talking about postponing the EO to after mid term elections?

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/...0GS2LP20140828

You never know. It may come before September 21 or after midterm elections or may never come at all. At the end of the day, they are politicians and their moves depend on whether they can get any political benefits out of them or not. They will do what suits them politically. That applies throughout the political spectrum (both democrats and GOP).

[migo79]

it would be really embarrassment for POTUS to speak out on rose garden defining a date and then the date pass and he do nothing.
so something must be announced in September for sure but what it is that's we don't know!