Discussion On The Politics of Immigration Reform (Comprehensive Or Otherwise)

[immitime]

Just to add.. "Do not think republicans will let legal immigration to be reformed too". Best example is fate of HR3012 lat year. Grassley and others will not let anything through. Better support Gang of 8 in their effort to completely overhaul immigration.

You should brush up your info dear... HR 3012 case Grassley lifted the hold on the bill around July 2012, there are almost 5 months after that Why Sen.Reid don't want to file a cloture for HR 3012 at that time?? Democrats want Legals to be hostages for bargaining to give 11millions path to citizenship...HR 3012 was a republican bill. Grassley lifted the hold and Sen Reid, Schumer stalled it. Gang of 8 can only do something on the Senate but not in the House.

[rupen86]

New Proposed amendment on border security could come as early as today.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/l...,2419766.story

[idiotic]

You should brush up your info dear... HR 3012 case Grassley lifted the hold on the bill around July 2012, there are almost 5 months after that Why Sen.Reid don't want to file a cloture for HR 3012 at that time?? Democrats want Legals to be hostages for bargaining to give 11millions path to citizenship...HR 3012 was a republican bill. Grassley lifted the hold and Sen Reid, Schumer stalled it. Gang of 8 can only do something on the Senate but not in the House.

Please point me the link which states Grassley lifted the hold. If it was the case no cloture was required. If there was another unknown senator holding up that bill it would have been another republican called sessions..

Cloture is very expensive for Senate which will not be used unless it is really required. It is well known that democratic stratergy is to get every force behind one bill and push it through.

The real people who do not want anything getting done is reps..

[abcx13]

I count the foll Republicans who would support:

4 of the Gang
Kelly Ayotte
John Hoeven
Bob Corker
Mark Kirk

Potentially Murkowski, Hatch, Susan Collins, Rob Portman?

NYT says this amendment might get 8 to 12 Republicans. I think that's excluding the Gang. So that might get you up to 70 in the Senate.

[trackright]

New Hoeven/Corker border security amendment being discussed in the senate.

http://www.republican.senate.gov/pub...iew=agenda-day

Hope this helps gain more republican support.

[gs1968]

I count the foll Republicans who would support:

4 of the Gang
Kelly Ayotte
John Hoeven
Bob Corker
Mark Kirk

Potentially Murkowski, Hatch, Susan Collins, Rob Portman?

NYT says this amendment might get 8 to 12 Republicans. I think that's excluding the Gang. So that might get you up to 70 in the Senate.

I just got this tweet

"Ds believe they will hold caucus together, and if Corker is correct that 15 Rs may vote aye, Senate could pass immigration with 69 votes"

It is interesting to see that the Democrats in the Judiciary Committee vehemently opposed the same provisions which they are now hailing. Unless they can agree to enforcement trigger before any form of legalization the Bill will most likely die in conference or never make it to conference at all.The current amendment is unlikely to be enough to placate the House

[gs1968]

To Viz/abcx and others who enjoy the game of politics-I found this interesting

http://www.nationaljournal.com/congr...-bill-20130620

If anything the GOP house caucus needs a new whip.Mr.Kevin McCarthy is losing vote after vote and embarrassing the Leadership

[qesehmk]

Not a fan of McCain ... but this clip proves he still has some of the same character that once made him the darling of so many independents.

http://www.nbcnews.com/video/nbc-news/52266310

[rupen86]

New Hoeven/Corker border security amendment being discussed in the senate.

http://www.republican.senate.gov/pub...iew=agenda-day

Hope this helps gain more republican support.

Cornyn amendment is defeated.

[idiotic]

Not a fan of McCain ... but this clip proves he still has some of the same character that once made him the darling of so many independents.

http://www.nbcnews.com/video/nbc-news/52266310

You might want to watch the Schumer+Mccain vs Cronyn debate on floor.

For tamil friends, it would remind senthil goundamani banana joke

Schumer and Mcain repeatedly asking Cronyn the same question again and again (where is the money for amendments coming from) and Cronyn kept beating around the bush without answering it. Mccain got frustrated and told him "its simple first grade mathematics" Cronyn finally walked out of floor.

On a related note, Cornyn came today on senate floor couple of hours back saying" I just took a closer look at the bill.. where is the money for the new border security amendment going to come from?".. Its very clear his true intentions is to just kill the bill..

[qesehmk]

It's amazing that cornyn is from texas (first state with minority majority) and yet so opposed to CIR. McCain on the other hand is from a state that is so anti immigrant and yet the old man is vehemently supporting the bill.

You might want to watch the Schumer+Mccain vs Cronyn debate on floor.

For tamil friends, it would remind senthil goundamani banana joke

Schumer and Mcain repeatedly asking Cronyn the same question again and again (where is the money for amendments coming from) and Cronyn kept beating around the bush without answering it. Mccain got frustrated and told him "its simple first grade mathematics" Cronyn finally walked out of floor.

On a related note, Cornyn came today on senate floor couple of hours back saying" I just took a closer look at the bill.. where is the money for the new border security amendment going to come from?".. Its very clear his true intentions is to just kill the bill..

[idiotic]

It's amazing that cornyn is from texas (first state with minority majority) and yet so opposed to CIR. McCain on the other hand is from a state that is so anti immigrant and yet the old man is vehemently supporting the bill.

The answer is "Tea Party" I guess. They are the ones who is the source of all problems in Congress today. Most are afraid of them..

[rupen86]

The answer is "Tea Party" I guess. They are the ones who is the source of all problems in Congress today. Most are afraid of them..

My feeling is that amendment that they are discussing is not quite different than what Cornyn was asking. I think they should have tried harder than abandoning Cornyn so easily.

[idiotic]

My feeling is that amendment that they are discussing is not quite different than what Cornyn was asking. I think they should have tried harder than abandoning Cornyn so easily.

If you have watched the floor debates for the past few days and still think Cornyn is interested in improving the bill, good luck to you !!

[abcx13]

My feeling is that amendment that they are discussing is not quite different than what Cornyn was asking. I think they should have tried harder than abandoning Cornyn so easily.

It is very diff! There is no trigger. At some level I see why a trigger is overly punitive if you think illegals should eventually be legalized and allowed to come out of the shadows (personally, I think GC is ok but no citizenship), but I also sympathize with the Republican POV that without a trigger, there is no incentive for the Democrats to actually reduce illegal immigration (particularly if you/they think that illegals, if and when legalized again, are more likely to vote Democratic). That said, apprehensions are at all times high with Obama so I think the Republican fear might be somewhat misplaced. If anything, I think Republicans like illegal immigration more because big biz likes it and Reps are beholden to big biz. Maybe that's why Republicans don't want to legalize - as long as they stay in the shadows, illegals can be exploited for the benefit of big biz.

[abcx13]

If you have watched the floor debates for the past few days and still think Cornyn is interested in improving the bill, good luck to you !!

Not to comment on whether he supports the bill, both sides are horsing around. Schumer did complain about the cost at first, the CBO report that shows a surplus is just a smoke screen - it's still a bad use of capital (remember 40% of illegals are visa overstays). It's just that Democrats are willing to capitulate and waste the $30b on a dumb fence and border security because that's the only way to get some Reps on board and pass the bill.

[idiotic]

Not to comment on whether he supports the bill, both sides are horsing around. Schumer did complain about the cost at first, the CBO report that shows a surplus is just a smoke screen - it's still a bad use of capital (remember 40% of illegals are visa overstays). It's just that Democrats are willing to capitulate and waste the $30b on a dumb fence and border security because that's the only way to get some Reps on board and pass the bill.

Completely agree.. It is dumb to build a literal human fence where even roads don't exist. The money is well spent on exit-entry system.
Wastage of money and "big goverment" is completely against Republican principles and clearly the "tea party" favorites are those who is favoring both of these in this case.
20k officers in southern borders is huge direct employment for ex-military returning back.. They do not need to be reskilled also.. I think that may be the real intention..

[qesehmk]

Maybe that's why Republicans don't want to legalize - as long as they stay in the shadows, illegals can be exploited for the benefit of big biz.

That is quite right - one very good reason why republicans as well as big business don't want to legalize. Illegal labor suppresses wages which big business is very happy with.

[gs1968]

A couple of links for some lighter reading on immigration and the farm bill

http://www.npr.org/blogs/itsallpolit...the-nba-finals

http://tv.msnbc.com/2013/06/20/top-l...arm-bill-vote/

[idiotic]

A couple of links for some lighter reading on immigration and the farm bill

http://www.npr.org/blogs/itsallpolit...the-nba-finals

http://tv.msnbc.com/2013/06/20/top-l...arm-bill-vote/

MSNBC tells that Ted Cruz's father came into the country bending the rules by paying a bribe

[axecapone]

That is quite right - one very good reason why republicans as well as big business don't want to legalize. Illegal labor suppresses wages which big business is very happy with.

Then I don't see any incentive to help legal immigrants as well because even legal immigrants help in wage/salary suppression.

Is there any incentive for anyone to pass this bill? For Republicans, yes: Vote bank!! Isn't vote bank politics big enough reason to pass it? Isn't this a low hanging fruit to repair their tarnished image among the immigrants? I just don't know what they want!

[qesehmk]

That is quite right. Nobody has real incentive to actually do CIR. In that sense the only true friend of immigration (legal or otherwise) is a good economy!

Then I don't see any incentive to help legal immigrants as well because even legal immigrants help in wage/salary suppression.

Is there any incentive for anyone to pass this bill? For Republicans, yes: Vote bank!! Isn't vote bank politics big enough reason to pass it? Isn't this a low hanging fruit to repair their tarnished image among the immigrants? I just don't know what they want!

[gs1968]

Another important breaking story-Why are they doing this?

http://www.latintimes.com/articles/5...ghter-name.htm

Can anybody confirm this as true?

[kuku82]

Hilarious.

[vizcard]

MSNBC tells that Ted Cruz's father came into the country bending the rules by paying a bribe

technically he bent the rules to get out of Cuba - not enter the US. He bribed a Cuban immigration officer to get his exit stamp.