Discussion of Bills that remove the Per Country Limits - H.R.3012, H,R. 213

[Pedro Gonzales]

Ron is concerned about ROW folks. He himself being from a ROW country, it is just natural. He is referring to "time-limit" in terms of ROW. Once the 3 year transition phase is over, ROW won't have any visas reserved. That is what he is concerned about.

Another reason could be, he would be losing lot of porting revenue from I/C folks.

I also have issue with his earlier comment:
"As I wrote in another thread, I think that this is very bad legislation. If passed, I doubt that it would do anything positive for India/China EB2 applicants. Indeed, it might even result in fewer visas being available in a few years. EB3 applicants from India and China would be able to get more visas, but it would be at the expense of worldwide EB3 applicants."

The first sentence is subjective, I'll let it go.
For want of a better word i'm going to call the second sentence is a lie. It will benefit EB2 I/C applicants tremendously. If his point is that we're getting the spillover anyway, then he is implicitly claiming that there will be atleast 29,000 spillover from EB2ROW this year (on top of whatever spillover comes in from EB1 and EB5) and 31,000 for the next 2 years. It's a ridiculous claim and one that no one can know for sure.
The third sentence is as bad as the second. Except, I can't even think of a ridiculous argument that would justify it.
The fourth sentence captures the essence of the bill beautifully, but betrays a tone of gentle disappointment. That's the whole point Ron!

I never had an opinion on this guy, earlier. Now I do and its not one of approval.

[manubhai]

i do not see any video (windows media player opens but then says, it cannot play)? is the hearing complete?

Download the asf file from the bottom of this page: (NiceDay.asf)
http://www.jhepple.com/support/sample_movies1.htm

Open and play the file directly in Windows Media Player.

If it works, it means you have the codecs and all you need is to tell Firefox that the file needs to be played by WMP. For this:
Firefox > Tools > Options > Applications tab
In the search box, type "asf", and then from the right column select Use Other > Windows Media Player (or directly select WMP if its visible).

If it doesn't work, download and install VLC Player. That will get you the codecs. Repeat all the steps starting from running the above file in Windows Media Player and then make Firefox point to WMP for playing the file (All programs use the same codec)

Worst case: You can direct the streaming URL in VLC player and watch the video there.

If the above doesn't work, chill... we'll tell you what happens anyways!!!

[Pedro Gonzales]

Guys,

One more day to go. I encourage everyone who reads this thread and is from either EB2IC or EB3IC to call all the representatives tomorrow. Multiple times if you can. I have been scouring the web to see how things are going, and the opposition to the bill, though not well organized are putting up a strong fight to defend the advantage that they have (and who can blame them for it). One person put his 10 employees on the phone all day calling all the congressmen multiple times. If they each called all representatives ten times (at even 30 minutes each that's 5 hours), that's the equivalent of a 110 people. My argument is that to change the status quo, we need 10 times as many folk calling in support of the bill as against it. That's a 1000 people calling once.

We need more of you to call. If you have made calls, please post here to let us know that you have. Remember, if this dies tomorrow, nothing will change for 2 years at least.

[skpanda]

I have called all the reps. Tomorrow me and my better half are planning to call everyone once again! Hope for the best..

atleast 7 reps' assistants told me that they support the bill.

Guys,

One more day to go. I encourage everyone who reads this thread and is from either EB2IC or EB3IC to call all the representatives tomorrow. Multiple times if you can. I have been scouring the web to see how things are going, and the opposition to the bill, though not well organized are putting up a strong fight to defend the advantage that they have (and who can blame them for it). One person put his 10 employees on the phone all day calling all the congressmen multiple times. If they each called all representatives ten times (at even 30 minutes each that's 5 hours), that's the equivalent of a 110 people. My argument is that to change the status quo, we need 10 times as many folk calling in support of the bill as against it. That's a 1000 people calling once.

We need more of you to call. If you have made calls, please post here to let us know that you have. Remember, if this dies tomorrow, nothing will change for 2 years at least.

[skpanda]

Thanks.. its working now...

The sample movie played well.. no issues...
Checked Firefox Tools-options-App tab ---> asf is already set to WMP.

For whatever reason it was acting up on me.. yesterday..

Also if possible... can somebody plz record the hearing?

thx...

Download the asf file from the bottom of this page: (NiceDay.asf)
http://www.jhepple.com/support/sample_movies1.htm

Open and play the file directly in Windows Media Player.

If it works, it means you have the codecs and all you need is to tell Firefox that the file needs to be played by WMP. For this:
Firefox > Tools > Options > Applications tab
In the search box, type "asf", and then from the right column select Use Other > Windows Media Player (or directly select WMP if its visible).

If it doesn't work, download and install VLC Player. That will get you the codecs. Repeat all the steps starting from running the above file in Windows Media Player and then make Firefox point to WMP for playing the file (All programs use the same codec)

Worst case: You can direct the streaming URL in VLC player and watch the video there.

If the above doesn't work, chill... we'll tell you what happens anyways!!!

[Pedro Gonzales]

One person here (I'll leave it to him to identify himself) has convinced 10 undergrad students to man the phones all day today to make multiple rounds of calls. He has also posted a message on his school's Indian grad school student email list asking them to get up to speed on the issue and make calls.

These future EB2Is are the guys who this will benefit the most, and are the ones we should be targeting. They don't know anything about the bill, but they sure as hell know it'll take them over 5 years to get their GCs while their compatriots from other countries will get them immediately.

I encourage all of you to try and do the same. Try to remember/find out your grad school Indian student association email lists and email them the list of numbers, and ask them to call multiple times today.

[Pedro Gonzales]

does anyone know what happened to the mark up session for hr 3012... i see no updates anywhere. only those who've been watching the session live would know i guess

Still on gun proliferation. I always knew which side of that debate I was on but the single minded devotion of the Repubs to the NRA has been a revelation. Just watching the Dems bring up amendment after amendment to slow down the eventual passage of this bill through the committee helps put things in perspective.

[skpanda]

wt*... i had the session live.. whole day (did not see but had the audio on) and all they talked about was amendments on gun stuff. And finally the comitee was adjourned...

did they already talk about it yesterday? if yes.. what was the outcome?

[jackbrown_890]

does anyone know what happened to the mark up session for hr 3012... i see no updates anywhere. only those who've been watching the session live would know i guess

It looks like they used most of the time discussing 822. I don't know if 3012 mark up was done in the morning or not. but I think it did not happen today. So not sure when it will happen now. depends on Lamar Smith. Hopefully sometime next week.

[kd2008]

I may be wrong. But I think they are done for the day. Who knows when they will schedule the next mark up.

[gcq]

They didn't pick our bill today. They have recessed. Our bill was last on the list.

[gcq]

I was looking at the bills that were on Judiciary calender. Our bill was the last
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bill Status
------------------------------------------------------------------------
H.R. 2471 Reported by Committee Oct 13, 2011 -- Done
H.R. 2870 Referred to Committee -- Not Done
H.R. 1254 Reported by Committee Jul 28, 2011 -- Done
H.R. 10 Referred to Committee -- Not Done
H.R. 822 Referred to Committee --Currently discussing
H.R. 3012 Referred to Committee -- Not Done

As per this list only 2 bills were "reported" ( meaning done). That means our bill is not even the next one to be considered. Am I reading this right ?

[immitime]

May be time constraint this can be rescheduled for next week.. but Hey.. who knows.

to my knowledge Congress Judiciary committee is on recess whole week,next week and we can expect something only on 10/24/2011..but no guarantee.

As I always believe through experience never ever believe a Politician... they lie tactfully, and show the carrot to us and give the stick finally.

Still there could be hope. but WHEN ???? that is a big question mark

[Pedro Gonzales]

I've heard conflicting views through the grapevine. One rumor said its due for early next week, and the other that it's due for the next session which would be the week after next at the earliest. Will let you know if I hear any updates. If anyone has any credible source of info, please send us the link.

[Pedro Gonzales]

The word is that this bill is 'likely' to be taken up again mid next week. Apparently, the support has been overwhelmingly for it, but the opposition to the bill is beginning to organize impressively. I would suggest that everybody take 30 minutes each day to make calls all 38 members of the judiciary committee. I just made my set of calls for today.

My recommendation is that you keep your message short on one subject (rather than all the talking points that have been circulating). Examples of things you can touch upon are:

a) Diversity while a noble goal on its own, is not appropriate in the high-skilled employment based immigration category; the US ought to be able to allow the people to immigrate based on what labor needs it has. If that need is overwhelmingly filled by people of one nation, people from that nation ought not to have special obstacles placed in their immigration path. The 140,000 employment based immigration green cards given out each year represents only about 15% (can someone confirm this figure?) of the total immigration into this country; All immigration is significantly less (again, does someone have figures they can put in here?) than the organic population growth of the US.

b) Some ask that the rules not be changed 'in the middle of the game', and that any change in rules ought to be made after the current back log is cleared. That will take several years. I believe that a system that is both unfair and contrary to US interests, ought to be rectified right away, and not several years from now.

c) People claim that Indian and Chinese immigrants on the whole already receive more than the 7% cap for employment based visas each year. This has been true in the last few years, but this is only because fewer non-Indian & non-Chinese applications have been received in the highest skills categories. Even taking into account this 'spillover' of green cards to Indian and Chinese immigrants, someone born in India or China still takes 5 years longer to get their green cards than someone born elsewhere.

And the message I've been focused on:

d) Some people think of the immigration issue in terms of groups of people from different countries competing to immigrate to the US, and that each country ought to have the same number of high-skilled immigrants permitted to immigrate. But the fact is that India did not send me here. I have chosen to come here on my own, and it seems unclear to me that I ought to wait 5 more years than someone from another country just because more people from India possess the skills that the US requires at this time.

If you have any other myths that you want to debunk, feel free to add them here. Keep the effort on.

[Pedro Gonzales]

Guys, Another thing sportsfan33 has been doing is to keep a tally of who has taken a position on the bill, and I can tell you that so far, of 14 identified positions (including the cosponsors), 13 are in support of and 1 against the bill. The 13 include some big names from both sides of the aisle. If anyone knows of the positions of any congressmen, send either sportsfan33 or me a PM and we'll add it to our tally. We should not publicize the names for obvious reasons.

In any case, this shouldn't mean by any means that we stop calling. They are politicians we're talking about, after all, and their aides continue to tally the calls, so I believe a concerted effort against the bill could still change positions. A set of calls every day continues to be my recommendation.

[gcq]

One thing to be noted, we are nowhere near the majority. Unless we get a 20+ affirmative "Yea", we are not there yet. We need to call daily without fail.
Somehow momentum seems to have died down on I V site.

[immitime]

Attorney Ron gotcher's opinion about H.R. 3012, so what he means is this legislation should not pass and EB-3 India people waiting for 11 years should continue to wait and this is the best way to make money for attorneys----------of course by renewing EAD and H1Bs...??? what a selfish mentality

http://www.immigration-information.c...83/index4.html

[Pedro Gonzales]

Attorney Ron gotcher's opinion about H.R. 3012, so what he means is this legislation should not pass and EB-3 India people waiting for 11 years should continue to wait and this is the best way to make money for attorneys----------of course by renewing EAD and H1Bs...??? what a selfish mentality

http://www.immigration-information.c...83/index4.html

Ron is grossly incorrect. We have covered this earlier on this thread. Check out this post:
http://www.qesehmk.org/forums/showth...0668#post10668
and some other responses until post #117 that covers this.

Rest assured, if this bill passes, India and China will be significantly benefited, unfortunately at the benefit of ROW.

[vishnu]

Ron and other lawyers benefit so much from the complexity in the process and also the EB3-EB2 upgrades. Naturally, they would not want it to pass. Not blaming them - each group will advocate the policy that favors their own interests.

[immitime]

Pedro,

Thanks for the link.

Vishnu

You said it man.......the complexity is money for the Attorneys.

[Sunnyznj]

Keep a look out for the voting on the website below...This is lacking supporters...

http://www.washingtonwatch.com/bills...2_HR_3012.html

[skpanda]

This bill is not marked up for next two hearings. Not sure if this will come back again!!

http://judiciary.house.gov/hearings/calendar.html

Good Luck to all!

[desiman]

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...googlenews_wsj

The reeling housing market has come to this: To shore it up, two Senators are preparing to introduce a bipartisan bill Thursday that would give residence visas to foreigners who spend at least $500,000 to buy houses in the U.S.

The provision is part of a larger package of immigration measures, co-authored by Sens. Charles Schumer (D., N.Y.) and Mike Lee (R., Utah), designed to spur more foreign investment in the U.S.

The provision would create visas that are separate from current programs so as to not displace anyone waiting for other visas. There would be no cap on the home-buyer visa program.

[vishnu]

desiman - this visa does not allow employement - so its not the same as the EB5 program or the regular greencard. it is a bit bizarre - not sure what purpose it serves.

On a different note, the fact that HR 3012 is not the ont the revised mark ups does not mean it has been abandoned. The fact that there are only single items for the 10/26 and 27th mark up sessions could they want to look at prior bills that were not examined.