Elections, Results and Impact Discussions

[Turbulent_Dragonfly]

Kamala already raised her voice for Kashmir.. and she is in a position to prove she is loyal to usa then India in every issue concerning India.

Indian media and politicians are watching. Stirring minority people and creating a stampede Of votes is a way to comeback. Fake Gandhi and groups will stir lots of issues in India and make India hell for next 4 years. India is ripe for clash.

God bless India from politicians!

Kamala Harris doesn't have to prove anything to anyone. She will be the first Asian-American-Woman Vice President of the USA if they win. In fact, it's the Indian Government who needs to be more careful with their nationalistic ideals if they want the US to be a partner in counter-balancing China. This is already going to be tough given that Democratic governments have usually had a softer stance toward China but they could have a different approach keeping in mind all of China's ambitions especially in the South China sea.

[suninphx]

Kamala already raised her voice for Kashmir.. and she is in a position to prove she is loyal to usa then India in every issue concerning India.

Indian media and politicians are watching. Stirring minority people and creating a stampede Of votes is a way to comeback. Fake Gandhi and groups will stir lots of issues in India and make India hell for next 4 years. India is ripe for clash.

God bless India from politicians!

Don't worry mate. PM Modi and team is more than capable to handle fake narrative from leftist fake media. People with ZERO knowledge on ground reality keep blaming Modi for every thing that's wrong in the world. But better days are ahead for India in my opinion. I don't understand why people have objection for the nation first approach of any leader of any country? That's how it should be always. And BTW Indi-US relationship is bidirectional now as India has grown much much stronger.

[vedu]

I believe Joe Biden will become the most successful long lasting US politician (even better record than Obama) by the time he will hang up his boots considering the following facts:

1. He was the US Senator for whooping 36 years.
2. Vice President for 8 years
3. Hopefully President for next 8 years
4. He was the recipient of Presidential Medal of Freedom
5. He just needs a Nobel Prize to add another feather to his hat.

[Turbulent_Dragonfly]

I believe Joe Biden will become the most successful long lasting US politician (even better record than Obama) by the time he will hang up his boots considering the following facts:

1. He was the US Senator for whooping 36 years.
2. Vice President for 8 years
3. Hopefully President for next 8 years
4. He was the recipient of Presidential Medal of Freedom
5. He just needs a Nobel Prize to add another feather to his hat.

He has already indicated he may not contest for a second term when he will be 81.

[Turbulent_Dragonfly]

Don’t worry mate. PM Modi and team is more than capable to handle fake narrative from leftist fake media. People with ZERO knowledge on ground reality keep blaming Modi for every thing that’s wrong in the world. But better days are ahead for India in my opinion. I don’t understand why people have objection for ‘nation first’ approach of any leader of any country? That’s how it should be always. And BTW Indi-US relationship is bidirectional now as India has grown much much stronger.

Yeah he has been globally reported to be actively suppressing any news which are critical of him or his administration. That's how he is capable of handling 'fake narrative from leftist fake media'. Modi has no global clout to be blamed for anything in the world, but yeah his human rights record in India is not exactly rosy. 'Nation First' is not a problem as long as every citizen is treated as a human being, and not a pariah.

Anyways, I don't track local politics in India and uninformed, so do not expect me to keep providing rebuttals to any arguments you have on my views.

[suninphx]

Yeah he has been globally reported to be actively suppressing any news which are critical of him or his administration. That's how he is capable of handling 'fake narrative from leftist fake media'. Modi has no global clout to be blamed for anything in the world, but yeah his human rights record in India is not exactly rosy. 'Nation First' is not a problem as long as every citizen is treated as a human being, and not a pariah.

Anyways, I don't track local politics in India and uninformed, so do not expect me to keep providing rebuttals to any arguments you have on my views.

If you don’t understand Indian politics why bother answering to my post at first place?Modi admin Suppressing news? LOL Are you even real? Do you ever read Indian newspapers?
Oh I get it - ‘fake leftist media’ remark has hit hard and right place

And BTW - I don’t waste my time arguing with people who are either misinformed or have extreme one sided views (right or left).

[Turbulent_Dragonfly]

If you don’t understand Indian politics why bother answering to my post at first place?Modi admin Suppressing news? LOL Are you even real? Do you ever read Indian newspapers?
Oh I get it - ‘fake leftist media’ remark has hit hard and right place

And BTW - I don’t waste my time arguing with people who are either misinformed or have extreme one sided views (right or left).

Sounds good, bud. Have a good day.

By the way, all of these people are lying:

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/02/w...ess-media.html

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opini...r-journalists/

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-i...-idUSKBN1HX1F4

https://qz.com/india/1570899/how-nar...-indian-media/

https://foreignpolicy.com/2019/08/02...jp-journalism/

https://rsf.org/en/news/how-indias-g...d-19-reporting

https://scroll.in/latest/976468/stop...dies-tell-modi

https://time.com/5856163/india-press-freedom-covid-19/

https://www.thequint.com/news/india/...edom-explained

https://ipi.media/india-press-freedo...deteriorating/

https://thewire.in/media/indian-medi...dom-mark-tully

https://www.worldpoliticsreview.com/...-amid-covid-19

https://www.theguardian.com/global-d...id-19-response

[h1bh1bh1b]

Dragon you are trying to judge based on the narratives and arguments ( which can be manipulated with fallacies) rather than your own fair assessment of the situation. When i saw New York Times as reference I understood your position

No more arguments

[suninphx]

Sounds good, bud. Have a good day.

By the way, all of these people are lying:

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/02/w...ess-media.html

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opini...r-journalists/

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-i...-idUSKBN1HX1F4

https://qz.com/india/1570899/how-nar...-indian-media/

https://foreignpolicy.com/2019/08/02...jp-journalism/

https://rsf.org/en/news/how-indias-g...d-19-reporting

https://scroll.in/latest/976468/stop...dies-tell-modi

https://time.com/5856163/india-press-freedom-covid-19/

Mate, By providing all these links you just proved my point of fake narrative. I suggest you read articles from all political angles that will do good for you.
Just read any recognized Indian news paper. You will find plenty of articles criticizing PM Modi and his govt policies. So there goes your claim about news suppression.

[Turbulent_Dragonfly]

Dragon you are trying to judge based on the narratives and arguments ( which can be manipulated with fallacies) rather than your own fair assessment of the situation. When i saw New York Times as reference I understood your position

No more arguments

I mentioned in my post that I am 'uninformed', not misinformed. I do have the ability to look at reporting from around the world to draw my own conclusions rather than depend on 'narrative fallacies' from one source or even a couple of sources. In my view, if a hundred people stand around and tell me that it's a Donkey, I am not going to insist it's a Zebra.

[h1bh1bh1b]

On a second thought, if you are interested in understanding economy , I suggest econtalk podcast and follow Russ Roberts. You will get knowledge instead of opinions

[Turbulent_Dragonfly]

Mate, By providing all these links you just proved my point of fake narrative. I suggest you read articles from all political angles that will do good for you.
Just read any recognized Indian news paper. You will find plenty of articles criticizing PM Modi and his govt policies. So there goes your claim about news suppression.

I updated and provided 13 links from all over. How many more 'political angles' do I need to look at it from? If you can't make up your mind that press suppression is taking place in India even after it being objectively reported all over the world, I can't help you. Will end the topic here and pivot to the US Election which we are discussing in this thread.

[Turbulent_Dragonfly]

I hope Pennsylvania and Nevada bring it home today evening. This is like a three day root canal...

[suninphx]

I updated and provided 13 links from all over. How many more 'political angles' do I need to look at it from? If you can't make up your mind that press suppression is taking place in India even after it being objectively reported all over the world, I can't help you. Will end the topic here and pivot to the US Election which we are discussing in this thread.

You are still missing the point. Why rely on articles written by someone else. Why not browse countless articles criticizing PM Modi. If there was news suppression would those articles still exist on news site? Its that simple. Anyways my last on this.

Hopefully we have a functional govt in the US soon. There are millions of people who need help from the govt. in form of some stimulus or such

[idliman]

Without flaming this thread, there is a great difference in perception of BJP (Modi) Vs anti-Modi sentiment when you move from North to South of India. I had seen the difference in arguments between some of my college who are from Gujarat, Non-Gujarat and South India. Also this difference is marked based on their background (upbringing, environment, locality). I have talked to some people on the ground, who are worried that Modi government is pushing reforms which primarily benefit the privileged. Kerala, TN and KA have greatly benefited by affirmative action to bring many people out of poverty and domination by a select few. In my school group, there is a great divide between pro-Modi and anti-Modi factions. There is a perception that Modi had brought in some reforms that is benefiting big-business. This may be globalization. Of course I don't have a feel for the ground reality in India as I left India about 20 years back. I can definitely say that in the last 2 years or so, the support for BJP and Modi had dramatically reduced in the school groups (high school, UG and PG groups).

I don't want to see members attacking fellow members here. Without getting personal, discussing policies will be great.

[qesehmk]

Great post. I echo Idli's sentiment.

In the same spirit I think everybody will agree that we all will be happy if ALL indians flourish and live happy and peaceful lives won't we?

I think US has great lessons that India can shamelessly copy. My own observation is that we ALL love USA for its freedom justice and equality and non-discrimination but we are very poor when it comes to applying the same to our brothers and sisters!!

So here are some questions I have that I would like to really ask all of you to ponder over:

1. If we love USA to be so much charitable to all of us irrespective of our country of origin or religion then shouldn't we insist on India being charitable to at least our own very neighbors which in many ways are our own flesh and blood even though they are muslims in name.
2. If we love USA for being the country with "arguably" the least discrimination on planet and being a reasonably merit based system then shouldn't we insist on non-discrimination in India not just in school admissions or government jobs but also in private companies. e.g. CISCO recently had a lawsuit for discriminating against so called lower caste people from India.
3. If we love USA for freedom, and I am 99.99% sure your own wives are wearing shorts skirts and whatever they please here and so on, then shouldn't we afford the same freedom to women in India without blaming them for rape. In other words, do you agree that a woman shouldn't be raped and then accused of wearing skimpy clothes are any reason whatsoever!

I think perhaps talks along these line might bring out more consensus and less rancor.

[suninphx]

Without flaming this thread, there is a great difference in perception of BJP (Modi) Vs anti-Modi sentiment when you move from North to South of India. I had seen the difference in arguments between some of my college who are from Gujarat, Non-Gujarat and South India. Also this difference is marked based on their background (upbringing, environment, locality). I have talked to some people on the ground, who are worried that Modi government is pushing reforms which primarily benefit the privileged. Kerala, TN and KA have greatly benefited by affirmative action to bring many people out of poverty and domination by a select few. In my school group, there is a great divide between pro-Modi and anti-Modi factions. There is a perception that Modi had brought in some reforms that is benefiting big-business. This may be globalization. Of course I don't have a feel for the ground reality in India as I left India about 20 years back. I can definitely say that in the last 2 years or so, the support for BJP and Modi had dramatically reduced in the school groups (high school, UG and PG groups).

I don't want to see members attacking fellow members here. Without getting personal, discussing policies will be great.

Lived multiple years in Bangalore and can relate to it as much as I can relate to my native place Pune. And I love idali sambar with coffee.

So no arguments with you idaliman! Have a great weekend!

[jimmys]

I am starting to alter my expectations for the Senate based on what has happened and is happening in Georgia. If somehow Biden pulls off winning Georgia, and both the Senate races go into runoffs, Stacey Abrams is waiting. She single-handedly would have won Georgia for Biden if it happens. Millions of dollars will flow into Georgia to turn out the vote for a runoff which may just about work.

Imagine this. If Trump is ousted, there's no race equation attached to GOP in Senators' races in GA. Perdue got more votes than Trump and Ossoff got less votes than Biden. Besides, if GA's two Senators stand between multi millionaires and 4(possibly 8) years of higher taxes, I expect millions and millions dollars to pour in favor of GOP. For Dems, it's going to be Soros and Zuckerberg. It's going to be interesting. Let's see.

[jimmys]

Hope Biden/Harris team is appointing AOC as Treasury Secretary and Bernie Sanders as Labor Secretary. Maybe Omar as Secretary of State? Love to see such team working for next 4 years.

[Turbulent_Dragonfly]

Great post. I echo Idli's sentiment.

In the same spirit I think everybody will agree that we all will be happy if ALL indians flourish and live happy and peaceful lives won't we?

So taking lessons from United States I would like to really ask all of you to ponder following things:

1. If we love USA to be so much charitable to all of us irrespective of our country of origin or religion then shouldn't we insist on India being charitable to at least our own very neighbors which in many ways are our own flesh and blood even though they are muslims in name.
2. If we love USA for being the country with "arguably" the least discrimination on planet and being a reasonably merit based system then shouldn't we insist on non-discrimination in India not just in school admissions or government jobs but also in private companies. e.g. CISCO recently had a lawsuit for discriminating against so called lower caste people from India.
3. If we love USA for freedom, and I am 99.99% sure your own wives are wearing shorts skirts and whatever they please here and so on, then shouldn't we afford the same freedom to women in India without blaming them for rape. In other words, do you agree that a woman shouldn't be raped and then accused of wearing skimpy clothes are any reason whatsoever!

I have many such questions where we ALL love USA for its freedom justice and equality and non-discrimination but we are very poor when it comes to applying the same to our brothers and sisters!!

I think perhaps talks along these line might bring out more consensus and less rancour.

Hit the nail on the head there, Q. I face this in my own household in India. My wife who has a PhD in Engineering and does work with three and four letter government agencies, has to wear a chudidhar in my home so that she does not offend them or our neighbors by showing her legs. And this type of restrictions and censure has only increased in the past few years. I don't blame anything on the government because it's people who are close-minded but an administration obviously impacts and influences the behavior of it's people by it's words and actions. The US is a shining example of that now.

It was never my intent to leave India because I disliked the conservative attitude or customs or traditions and I actually enjoyed some of them especially the festivals. But I was also caught in the middle of riots in 1992 when I was just 13. We lived in a Shiv Sena stronghold and their members came and indoctrinated us behind our parents back and taught us youngsters to fight with hockey sticks, bicycle chains and bamboo sticks so that we will be 'ready to fight' when the time comes. Myself and my friends were also witnesses to the lynching of a group of people in our area, two of whom ultimately died which are seared in our memories. So I am not talking without perspective when I say what is going in India now is not how a democracy should be.

[qesehmk]

BTW - many of you may not be sold on Biden hence here is a small fact for your consideration. If you are a backlogged EB-I and working in california you have much more networth today than Biden had after 35 years of working in senate in 2008!!

In 2008 Biden's net worth was 400K USD. That one fact alone might tell you something about his character. Imagine how many senate committees he chaired. How many big corporations he took upon. When as VP his son Bo died of cancer (and I hope none of you ever know how much it costs to cure a family member of cancer) Biden ran out of money and Obama lent him money.

Biden's net worth became 12 million after he retired as VP and went on a speech circuit (which every single VP and President does - no surprise there) and wrote a book or two.

[vedu]

He has already indicated he may not contest for a second term when he will be 81.

Honestly, I think it all depends on whether he will be able to fulfill his agenda in the current term or not. If not, then he will go for the second term in order to fulfill the promises he made to the people of this land. And that's the honorable thing to do. And as a byproduct of that, he will break the records.

[suninphx]

BTW - many of you may not be sold on Biden hence here is a small fact for your consideration. If you are a backlogged EB-I and working in california you have much more networth today than Biden had after 35 years of working in senate in 2008!!

In 2008 Biden's net worth was 400K USD. That one fact alone might tell you something about his character. Imagine how many senate committees he chaired. How many big corporations he took upon. When as VP his son Bo died of cancer (and I hope none of you ever know how much it costs to cure a family member of cancer) Biden ran out of money and Obama lent him money.

Biden's net worth became 12 million after he retired as VP and went on a speech circuit (which every single VP and President does - no surprise there) and wrote a book or two.

For comparison sake Mr Modi’s net worth is around 200K max after being CM 3 times and PM 2 times. Plus none of his relatives got a job paying 83k/month with no experience in that field of work.
Btw- I am no bhakt and not happy with how GST and demonetization was implemented. They should accept mistakes and do much better. None the less wanted to put the things in context.
To my mind not being corrupt is basic qualification for any politician. But only that quality won’t help. Ability to take bold decisions and steer nation in right direction (right for most of the people) are other qualities which are must IMO

[AceMan]

Without flaming this thread, there is a great difference in perception of BJP (Modi) Vs anti-Modi sentiment when you move from North to South of India. I had seen the difference in arguments between some of my college who are from Gujarat, Non-Gujarat and South India. Also this difference is marked based on their background (upbringing, environment, locality). I have talked to some people on the ground, who are worried that Modi government is pushing reforms which primarily benefit the privileged. Kerala, TN and KA have greatly benefited by affirmative action to bring many people out of poverty and domination by a select few. In my school group, there is a great divide between pro-Modi and anti-Modi factions. There is a perception that Modi had brought in some reforms that is benefiting big-business. This may be globalization. Of course I don't have a feel for the ground reality in India as I left India about 20 years back. I can definitely say that in the last 2 years or so, the support for BJP and Modi had dramatically reduced in the school groups (high school, UG and PG groups).

I don't want to see members attacking fellow members here. Without getting personal, discussing policies will be great.

First things first, I am a Dosa fan, so much that I skipped a booze filled dinner at a tech workshop DC to go and have a creep presented as Dosa at some Mexican joint. The masala was so bad that it had raw potatoes. But my love for dosa overcame the bad masala and ordered another Creep without masala. I just told this incident because as a person aspiring to be a permanent resident/USC at some point of life, I went looking for things I love in other cultures. When I take the morning breakfast, I make pancakes generally the breakfast bar take some scrambled eggs, add some hot sauce to get some taste equivalent for chatni/melagai podi.

The second part of your point, while school groups, college groups were fun initially we see a rerun of same junk forwards in multiple groups, some in the family group, some in laws group. The lull you are seeing with BJP/Modi is just because the elections are not there. When the elections are nearby these dormant groups just churn out junk information, and I exit group stating busy nature of work and join back only after the election results are announced. I have never been to Modi's India as my last visit was 7-8 years back.

[qesehmk]

India seems to have gone backwards socially without a doubt. I am as marathi as it gets. I remember Maharashtrian culture never really glorified Baba Swami etc thanks to 800 years of reformist saint tradition starting with Dnyaneshwar. Today I don't recognize what's going on in Maharashtra. People are more religious, superstitious, and all kinds of gundas are claiming to be Hindutva champions.

People are very passionate about Hindutva and they think that is same as nationalism. My question is - is it really? Because if so then we should be talking about PEOPLE and their problems rather than religion or culture. A nation can live without culture and religion. Can it live without PEOPLE?

Hit the nail on the head there, Q. I face this in my own household in India. My wife who has a PhD in Engineering and does work with three and four letter government agencies, has to wear a chudidhar in my home so that she does not offend them or our neighbors by showing her legs. And this type of restrictions and censure has only increased in the past few years. I don't blame anything on the government because it's people who are close-minded but an administration obviously impacts and influences the behavior of it's people by it's words and actions. The US is a shining example of that now.

It was never my intent to leave India because I disliked the conservative attitude or customs or traditions and I actually enjoyed some of them especially the festivals. But I was also caught in the middle of riots in 1992 when I was just 13. We lived in a Shiv Sena stronghold and their members came and indoctrinated us behind our parents back and taught us youngsters to fight with hockey sticks, bicycle chains and bamboo sticks so that we will be 'ready to fight' when the time comes. Myself and my friends were also witnesses to the lynching of a group of people in our area, two of whom ultimately died which are seared in our memories. So I am not talking without perspective when I say what is going in India now is not how a democracy should be.