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Thread: EB2-3 Predictions (Rather Calculations)

  1. #3126
    Sophomore
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    Feb 2021
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    Phoenix
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    The underlying basis for your I-485 is your original I-140. You can've more than one underlying basis to support your I-485 application. So when you concurrently file I-485 and downgrade, you are adding a new basis.

    Before downgrade:

    I-485 <== I-140 (EB2)

    After downgrade and concurrent filing:

    I-485 <== I-140 (EB2) + I-140 (EB3)

    So by interfiling, you are essentially picking EB2 or EB3 based on how FAD moves for the respective categories as long as you've not used the EAD/AP card. So you've to maintain H1B status to avail the benefit of interfiling. In my above example, you can add I-140 (EB-3) anytime. When done during concurrent filing, you are getting things done in one shot saving you headaches from the already awful immigration process. Now when you add a I-140 after filing I-485, it goes through the same process. Now USCIS will review your original PERM which is common for both the original EB2 and the new EB3. If you are unlucky, USCIS might even audit the original PERM and cause more havoc. Its the risk associated with any downgrade process. If you changed employers or promotion, then downgrade becomes a long process as you've to start from a new PERM and can't reuse the original PERM.

    Now, what is amendment ?

    http://blog.cyrusmehta.com/2020/09/d...-bulletin.html

    Please read the above

    Before downgrade:

    I-485 <== I-140 (EB2)

    After downgrade:

    I-485 <== I-140 (EB3)

    The Neufeld Memo suggests that a new I-140 petition filed after a previously approved I-140 was filed within 180 days of the grant of the labor certification should be filed as an amendment where a new visa classification is being sought. But doing that would nullify the earlier EB-2 petition, and this may not be so desirable in case the EB-2 dates overtake the EB-3 at some point in the future.
    To my limited knowledge, the second scenario of downgrade process does not make any sense. Safe thing to do is always add a new I-140 as yet another basis and not change an existing one. And all these are through memo and nothing is written down as a law. Hence its open for interpretations and all the confusion. This whole downgrade process was pioneered by Chinese folks and all my Chinese colleagues at work got their GC by downgrading and interfiling. They all added a new I-140 EB3 and didn't ammend the existing EB2. In your case, you can only add a new I-140 and can't change the existing I-140 after filing I-1485.

    Also, why would you even think about downgrading now when your EB2 must be before May 2011 ? Just be patient and don't worry about EB3 racing ahead of EB2. After May 2011, its going to be a yin-yang between EB2 and EB3.
    Last edited by beagle; 05-07-2021 at 08:49 PM.

  2. #3127
    Sophomore
    Join Date
    Sep 2019
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    Maryland
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    Thanks Transformer and Beagle. Actually, my EB3 PERM was approved last week and I was not very keen to proceed with I-140 stage. I was thinking of waiting for a month or two and see how dates progress. But current employer and attorney moved quickly and prepared paperwork for I-140 stage. Current employer is not aware of my AOS pending status, because that was filed based on previous employer's I-140 (EB2).

    I understand that interfile will work once new I-140 is approved. But my attorney is not sure whether USCIS will allow porting old EB2 PD, because that PD is already used for AOS. If new I-140 has new PD of 2020, there is absolutely no point.

  3. #3128
    Finally there is a status update after Feb 17 2012, I received a RFE, surprisingly it says Job offer letter and no mention of I-485 J. Sent it to HR and they forwarded it to attorneys. I don?t know if I should go ahead and submit 485J. I am in the same job, just that my role and responsibilities are different attributable to career progression. Did anyone get a similar RFE? And what do you guys recommend, should I file offer letter or 485J?

  4. #3129
    Quote Originally Posted by srisri View Post
    Finally there is a status update after Feb 17 2012, I received a RFE, surprisingly it says Job offer letter and no mention of I-485 J. Sent it to HR and they forwarded it to attorneys. I don?t know if I should go ahead and submit 485J. I am in the same job, just that my role and responsibilities are different attributable to career progression. Did anyone get a similar RFE? And what do you guys recommend, should I file offer letter or 485J?
    If I were you I would submit both. Both of those forms aren't hard to fill

  5. #3130
    Quote Originally Posted by rsnake View Post
    If I were you I would submit both. Both of those forms aren't hard to fill
    I would love to submit both but my HR will go based on attorneys recommendation. But it?s strange, I have not heard of people getting RFE for job offer letter in recent past.

  6. #3131
    Quote Originally Posted by srisri View Post
    Finally there is a status update after Feb 17 2012, I received a RFE, surprisingly it says Job offer letter and no mention of I-485 J. Sent it to HR and they forwarded it to attorneys. I don?t know if I should go ahead and submit 485J. I am in the same job, just that my role and responsibilities are different attributable to career progression. Did anyone get a similar RFE? And what do you guys recommend, should I file offer letter or 485J?
    Nothing to be alramed off. This is a standard RFE. In older days before I-485 Supp J exististed this was called "Original Employment Verification Letter" or something like that. It is the version of AC21 letter if you had ported jobs. Basically it confirms that a) job exists and b) new position is same or similar to the position noted in the I-140 form.

    Now, this process is formalized with I-485 Supp J. Go with what the attorney recommends. Most likely they will do it via I-485 Supp J. If you had ported to a new employer, please pay attention to job description. Tailor it to match closely to the PERM / I-140 job descrition, job title and SOC. You should not have any issues. Good luck.
    LPR Since 07MAY2021

  7. #3132
    Thanks Idliman, I agree it?s the same EVL that was asked prior to 485J came into being but confused why they have asked for it now as it?s standard to ask for 485J, will go by what the attorney recommends. I am in the same job and not much of a change. I changed position within the organization but have the same job mandate.

  8. #3133
    Quote Originally Posted by srisri View Post
    Thanks Idliman, I agree it?s the same EVL that was asked prior to 485J came into being but confused why they have asked for it now as it?s standard to ask for 485J, will go by what the attorney recommends. I am in the same job and not much of a change. I changed position within the organization but have the same job mandate.
    Even if you decide to submit 485J, make sure to also submit what they specifically asked for, in this case, the "Job Offer Letter". Your 485J can be a secondary document. Last thing you want to get is another RFE asking for the letter because it was missing in the original response.

  9. #3134
    Quote Originally Posted by vedu View Post
    Even if you decide to submit 485J, make sure to also submit what they specifically asked for, in this case, the "Job Offer Letter". Your 485J can be a secondary document. Last thing you want to get is another RFE asking for the letter because it was missing in the original response.
    Agree, if I have the opportunity to decide will certainly submit offer letter first and then 485J.

  10. #3135
    Pandit
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
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    TSC
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    Quote Originally Posted by march1612 View Post
    My 485 case is pending with USCIS since 2012 with TSC, My priority date is current since April-2021, I do not see any activity on my case.

    Is it worth raising Service Request?
    your 485 is in pending state for more than 9 years. You can raise SR immediately. I raised my SR on Apr 19th and received RFE on Apr 27th.
    TSC || PD: 15-03-2010 || RD: 05-Mar-2012 || ND: 07-Mar-2012 || FP sch/done : 16-Apr-2012 || EAD/AP: 20-Apr-2012|| GC:

  11. #3136
    Quote Originally Posted by srisri View Post
    I would love to submit both but my HR will go based on attorneys recommendation. But it?s strange, I have not heard of people getting RFE for job offer letter in recent past.
    Try to convince the attorney to submit both, saying that USCIS may have made a mistake and you may get another RFE for the other type of letter/form which will delay your GC by 2 months or more.

  12. #3137
    Quote Originally Posted by march1612 View Post
    My 485 case is pending with USCIS since 2012 with TSC, My priority date is current since April-2021, I do not see any activity on my case.

    Is it worth raising Service Request?
    Open a SR with USCIS. You can call them (early morning 8AM is preferred) or raise SR online. They will open a SR for "out of normal processing time". Also in parallel, move with Congressman or Senator.

    Don't push too much. An on hand, off hand approach might work better. But you will get better response to Congressman or Senator inquiries.
    LPR Since 07MAY2021

  13. #3138
    Quote Originally Posted by rsnake View Post
    Try to convince the attorney to submit both, saying that USCIS may have made a mistake and you may get another RFE for the other type of letter/form which will delay your GC by 2 months or more.
    That?s the idea, not sure how much convinced they would be. According to HR and the law firm, attorneys are experts but unfortunately the attorneys I came across recently don?t even know the difference between beneficiary application and petitioner application. So little skeptical and cause of worry. But after waiting for 11.5 years it doesn?t make a difference of few more months... this is my thought process these days to keep calm and stay healthy.

    Anyways, thank you all for the explanation and responses. This community is best as they help each other by sticking to discussion.

  14. #3139
    Question for the gurus, in what scenarios does USCIS give an RFE for 'Proof of continued non-immigrant status from application date' ? My scenario is that I couldn't file my latest H1 copy with my I-485 because of USPS delays, and the previous H1 copy submitted with the I-485 package last year expired 2 days after it was received by the lockbox. I am now concerned that I will get that RFE which will delay my application since I already submitted my medicals etc. and not expecting any other reason for RFE. I guess the people that filed in 2012 don't get that RFE because they have had EAD all along?

    Anyway it's like the DMV asking you to send a copy of your driver's license that you got from them. Why can't they look up the alien number and see the H1 approval in their systems rather than waste 2+ months with needless RFEs and waste GC numbers.
    Last edited by rsnake; 05-09-2021 at 10:48 AM.

  15. #3140
    Quote Originally Posted by srisri View Post
    That?s the idea, not sure how much convinced they would be. According to HR and the law firm, attorneys are experts but unfortunately the attorneys I came across recently don?t even know the difference between beneficiary application and petitioner application. So little skeptical and cause of worry. But after waiting for 11.5 years it doesn?t make a difference of few more months... this is my thought process these days to keep calm and stay healthy.

    Anyways, thank you all for the explanation and responses. This community is best as they help each other by sticking to discussion.
    I fully agree with you. Attorneys are full waste of money and time. Recently I got the 485J RFE. Before talking to anybody, I completed the form myself in two hours. Only two questions I couldn't answer were the total number of employees, and the gross income. Then I approached our HR with a simple request in very plain words making it sound at trivial as possible. I told them that the USCIS wants to issue me the green card, but they just need to confirm that I still have the job. I didn't use any complicated words such as "485J", etc., etc. neither did I mention attorney, etc. in my email. I said, "I have a filled a form which I and you both need to sign. There are two missing questions you need to answer. Please sign the form and I will pick it up later today" The HR lady did not suspect a thing, completed the two missing pieces of information, signed it and emailed me back asking me to pick up the form.

    I sent the form to USCIS with speed post, and then the USCIS sent me both, the I485J receipt notice as well as the I485J approval notice back in less than a week. It is that simple! But when you get attorneys involved, then it can easily take a couple of months in you talking to employer, employer talking to attorney, attorney talking to you, attorney communicating back with employer, etc., etc. and they add ZERO value.

  16. #3141
    Great job vedu. An important contribution of Q's blog is to be informed about immigration and not be fooled by the BS that is given to you. Yesterday, a friend told me that he spent 9K for I-485 packet for a primary and dependent. I had offered him to prepare and submit EAD+AP for him after getting the I-485 receipt notice. But he spent 3K paying attorney fees (for I-765 and I-131) and said this process is expensive. As he has no need for immediate I-765, he could have saved the money by applying after getting the I-485 receipt notice.

    Don't be afraid to look at the USCIS forms and fill it out yourself. IMO, if you prepare I-485J, you will make better a justification. No body knows the PERM job better than you. Because it was tailor made for your skills.

    The people who visit this forum are very well informed and independent folks. But there is a huge subset of folks outside, who have no clue and are willing to spend thousands of dollars for simple things that they can do themselves. A simple example is folks paying attorneys for EAD+AP renewals. If you are a so called skilled immigrant, this form is well within your skills.
    Last edited by idliman; 05-09-2021 at 03:18 PM.
    LPR Since 07MAY2021

  17. #3142
    Quote Originally Posted by idliman View Post
    An important contribution of Q's blog is to be informed about immigration and not be fooled by the BS that is given to you.
    I can't agree with you more on this point.

    I do have respect for the Civil Surgeons. First, they don't charge exorbitant fees, and second, they do provide an important service that you can't do yourself.
    Last edited by vedu; 05-09-2021 at 05:50 PM.

  18. #3143
    Quote Originally Posted by idliman View Post
    Great job vedu. An important contribution of Q's blog is to be informed about immigration and not be fooled by the BS that is given to you. Yesterday, a friend told me that he spent 9K for I-485 packet for a primary and dependent. I had offered him to prepare and submit EAD+AP for him after getting the I-485 receipt notice. But he spent 3K paying attorney fees (for I-765 and I-131) and said this process is expensive. As he has no need for immediate I-765, he could have saved the money by applying after getting the I-485 receipt notice.

    Don't be afraid to look at the USCIS forms and fill it out yourself. IMO, if you prepare I-485J, you will make better a justification. No body knows the PERM job better than you. Because it was tailor made for your skills.

    The people who visit this forum are very well informed and independent folks. But there is a huge subset of folks outside, who have no clue and are willing to spend thousands of dollars for simple things that they can do themselves. A simple example is folks paying attorneys for EAD+AP renewals. If you are a so called skilled immigrant, this form is well within your skills.
    Hi Idliman,

    While all you said is correct and true, i would not bracket people using attorneys as unskilled. I do believe it is more for the convenience and at the same time future support if an issue or question comes up from USCIS. That being said, exorbitant fees is not something we should pay for all these services. I will an example, I have had my attorney (not company, my own) attorney do EAD/AP few times in the past including 485J (twice), but always the charge has been around 300 to 500 USD for for submitting the entire packet. His paralegal used to fill out the documents and send over to me for detailed review and I just have to make sure the information is correct. As an example when the job code that the labor was filed was not there any more, I just have to make sure the new code they used was appropriate. You pay to them for their deep understanding of the law, but that being said, you pay what is just (not exorbitant). When my final RFE was responded back in Feb of this year, I used the same attorney and it was promptly submitted (as I mentioned earlier, I was in the fix of moving between companies and had few questions. He just assured me to go with what I have in hand, not what I plan for) and that prompt submission also helped in getting GC as RFER was earlier than most folks.

  19. #3144
    Quote Originally Posted by incredible View Post
    Hi Idliman,

    While all you said is correct and true, i would not bracket people using attorneys as unskilled. I do believe it is more for the convenience and at the same time future support if an issue or question comes up from USCIS. That being said, exorbitant fees is not something we should pay for all these services. I will an example, I have had my attorney (not company, my own) attorney do EAD/AP few times in the past including 485J (twice), but always the charge has been around 300 to 500 USD for for submitting the entire packet. His paralegal used to fill out the documents and send over to me for detailed review and I just have to make sure the information is correct. As an example when the job code that the labor was filed was not there any more, I just have to make sure the new code they used was appropriate. You pay to them for their deep understanding of the law, but that being said, you pay what is just (not exorbitant). When my final RFE was responded back in Feb of this year, I used the same attorney and it was promptly submitted (as I mentioned earlier, I was in the fix of moving between companies and had few questions. He just assured me to go with what I have in hand, not what I plan for) and that prompt submission also helped in getting GC as RFER was earlier than most folks.
    I agree incredible. I did not mean to be rude on attorneys maybe I could have worded it softly. We pay attorney's for their expertise, education and experience. One could not navigate everything without attorneys. However, most of the time these forms are prepared by paralegals and have lots of errors in them. It has to be a teamwork between the applicant and the attorney to make sure that you are represented correctly.

    Most of the time the skilled folks on H1B don't have a clue on how the immigration system works. It is similar to the ignorance in tax preparation. They just think that I paid so much, so that attorney has to be good. My point is if you want to become a permanant resident or a Citizen, you cannot depend fully on the system to take you through. While it might work for some people (I can provide examples of people who never had a clue but still became Citizens because the system worked for them), most of the time there are some glitches that needs skill to navigate. I had advised two people recently while they were on H1B about the importance of getting the PERM done before 5th year. One ended up leaving country in 2 weeks abruptly without even having time to pack and sell things. My guess is she/he understood the recapturing of vacation time for H1B as another H1B extension. Another one will be leaving shortly. She/he wanted to get a better pay before going for PERM, and the clock ran out. And these people wanted to stay in the USA and become Citizens, but did not put the effort to educate themselves about immigration.
    LPR Since 07MAY2021

  20. #3145
    One genuine problem on lawyers side is that America has way too many lawyers. Unlike being a doctor - being a lawyer is relatively cheap and fast. So US has over supply of lawyers.

    Plus - unlike doctors - the lawyers have huge disparity in what they earn. The top lawyers earn 8 figures while the not so good lawyers can earn 5 figures. It just depends. So it is easy to get scammed and be charged exorbitant for mundane services. Don't get me wrong - there are good lawyers and they play an incredibly useful role in the society. So don't mean to bash lawyers at all. Having representation is useful but sometimes difficult. I once forgo filing a patent because the legal expense was way too much and I was not sure if it was going to be useful. Later on that came back to bite me when an interested investor soured on me when I told him that I haven't secured patent on my product because one of my silicon valley sequoia backed entrepreneur friend told me that patents don't matter.

    p.s. - I have a long list of idiot friends who have enriched my life I will never apologize for them.
    I no longer provide calculations/predictions ever since whereismyGC.com was created.
    I do run this site only as an administrator. Our goal is to improve clarity of GC process to help people plan their lives better.
    Use the info at your risk. None of this is legal advice.

    Forum Glossary | Forum Rules and Guidelines | If your published post disappeared, check - Lies and Misinformation thread


  21. #3146
    Quote Originally Posted by idliman View Post
    I agree incredible. I did not mean to be rude on attorneys maybe I could have worded it softly. We pay attorney's for their expertise, education and experience. One could not navigate everything without attorneys. However, most of the time these forms are prepared by paralegals and have lots of errors in them. It has to be a teamwork between the applicant and the attorney to make sure that you are represented correctly.

    Most of the time the skilled folks on H1B don't have a clue on how the immigration system works. It is similar to the ignorance in tax preparation. They just think that I paid so much, so that attorney has to be good. My point is if you want to become a permanant resident or a Citizen, you cannot depend fully on the system to take you through. While it might work for some people (I can provide examples of people who never had a clue but still became Citizens because the system worked for them), most of the time there are some glitches that needs skill to navigate. I had advised two people recently while they were on H1B about the importance of getting the PERM done before 5th year. One ended up leaving country in 2 weeks abruptly without even having time to pack and sell things. My guess is she/he understood the recapturing of vacation time for H1B as another H1B extension. Another one will be leaving shortly. She/he wanted to get a better pay before going for PERM, and the clock ran out. And these people wanted to stay in the USA and become Citizens, but did not put the effort to educate themselves about immigration.
    I agree 100% on the education. It does not take a long time for one to become aware of Immigration matters. First step probably is getting into forums like this where there is a meaningful dialogue with like minded people. I believe people think ignorance is bliss and it is not in the case of immigration. We all have been bitten by it once or twice. I still remember vaguely why my friend (and college) was running from pillar to post just to get I140,485 filed in 2007 August. Never understood the urgency at that time, only to realize later how educated and smart he was .... he got greened literally 11 years before I was able to get greened this year (although both of us were here practically at the same time).

  22. #3147
    Quote Originally Posted by qesehmk View Post
    One genuine problem on lawyers side is that America has way too many lawyers. Unlike being a doctor - being a lawyer is relatively cheap and fast. So US has over supply of lawyers.

    Plus - unlike doctors - the lawyers have huge disparity in what they earn. The top lawyers earn 8 figures while the not so good lawyers can earn 5 figures. It just depends. So it is easy to get scammed and be charged exorbitant for mundane services. Don't get me wrong - there are good lawyers and they play an incredibly useful role in the society. So don't mean to bash lawyers at all. Having representation is useful but sometimes difficult. I once forgo filing a patent because the legal expense was way too much and I was not sure if it was going to be useful. Later on that came back to bite me when an interested investor soured on me when I told him that I haven't secured patent on my product because one of my silicon valley sequoia backed entrepreneur friend told me that patents don't matter.

    p.s. - I have a long list of idiot friends who have enriched my life I will never apologize for them.
    You are absolutely right Q. I recently had to go through the same Patent attorneys for filing for patent for a small innovation done by our 12 year old daughter. We eventually did learn all of that and initially filed for provisional around one year back and recently filed for non-provisional. I do agree the fees are exorbitant for those. we had already paid close to 7K to the attorneys only for that.

  23. #3148
    Incredible,

    I must say you do have a good lawyer who charges reasonable fee and provides a good service to you. And if that gave you peace of mind, then it was all worth it. But if I was in your shoes, I would still do all the documentation myself and save 300 to 500 USD (4-5 times). My employer pays for everything including attorney fee for H1-B renewals, I-140 application, etc. But they have a weird policy not to pay for I-485 application, because they consider it employee's application. So, back in 2012, I paid a reasonable amount to an attorney for preparing and submitting I-485 applications for me and my spouse. Then in 2013, I got another bill from the attorney in the amount of $73.75. When I inquired what this was for, they told me that it was the annual maintenance fee for my I-485 application. Me being a cheapskate, refused to pay that bill based on the argument that I did not request any additional services from them. Since then I have myself renewed all EAD/AP applications for our family, successfully responded to recent RFEs, all for free. Heck, I am so cheap, I never even used professionally taken passport size photos for EAD/AP applications. I take them with my cheap cell phone, post-process them, and print them at Walmart for 50 cents. On the other hand, all my past H1B renewals were done by the employer sponsored attorney.

  24. #3149
    Quote Originally Posted by incredible View Post
    You are absolutely right Q. I recently had to go through the same Patent attorneys for filing for patent for a small innovation done by our 12 year old daughter. We eventually did learn all of that and initially filed for provisional around one year back and recently filed for non-provisional. I do agree the fees are exorbitant for those. we had already paid close to 7K to the attorneys only for that.
    Children filing for patents!! Amazing.
    I no longer provide calculations/predictions ever since whereismyGC.com was created.
    I do run this site only as an administrator. Our goal is to improve clarity of GC process to help people plan their lives better.
    Use the info at your risk. None of this is legal advice.

    Forum Glossary | Forum Rules and Guidelines | If your published post disappeared, check - Lies and Misinformation thread


  25. #3150
    Folks ,

    I have a priority date of 04/12/2012 in EB2.
    I-485/I-140 (in EB3) was filed on Oct 30th,2020(RD) with the same employer.
    At that time I-140 could not filed in premium as the employer/Legal had lost the original PERM.
    As we expect the rapid movement in next few months and into the next FY , I am hopeful that my PD will be current late 2021/early 2022.
    (Please correct me, if that is too optimistic)

    However the way things are, I fear my EB3 I-140 would not be approved by that time. My case is with TSC.

    Few questions for the experts -

    1.The original PERM should be in the UCSIS archives which they will retrieve at some point during the I-140 processing.
    Does anyone know at which stage that happens and if premium processing can be requested at that stage.
    Is there another way to request either the the original PERM from USCIS or the premium processing of I-140 ?

    2. I still haven't received the biometrics notice yet. Should I be concerned ? At this pace , when can I expect to receive the EAD ?

    Thanks.

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