Yeah, My opinion may be biased because I am having an EB3 petition with 2011 dates.
However I am also concerned with people crowding up, if there is no real need for it. Even if the question is directed to your employer, any adverse impact has to be borne by you. Just my biased opinion.
I don't understand the logic here. What scrutiny and rejection are you talking here? If you are applying for H1B extension, then yes. Why would downgrading from EB2 to EB3 pose any additional risk. In fact waiting more would entail more risk by way of additional scrutiny in my opinion.Originally Posted by AceMan
I get it, you are in EB3 and you don't want anyone to downgrade.
Iatiam
Touche.
Attorneys are supposed to work for their clients. But nowadays they prevent you from geting GCs and lobby hard to make sure the backlogs are not cleared.
Yeah, My opinion may be biased because I am having an EB3 petition with 2011 dates.
However I am also concerned with people crowding up, if there is no real need for it. Even if the question is directed to your employer, any adverse impact has to be borne by you. Just my biased opinion.
if u never filed AOS I think u should go ahead and file with ur previous employer under Eb3.
If u already have ead then there is no point in downgrading.
I do agree with ur attorney that things can flip here anytime. Because it’s just the filing dates that are moving for eb3 and not FAD. Most eb2 guys before mar 15th should have already received their GC in the last quarter of fy18 and July inventory does not reflect these approvals. So I don’t agree with u on that may 2009 by end of fy19, because of no interview advantage CO tends to apply SO to EB2I, in the last quarter(I see eb2I getting approvals now, even when dates are not current) Only eb2i has this advantage. End of fy19, eb2i may touch sept 2009, at least.
Just my personal opinion..
Last edited by EB2/eb3; 09-20-2018 at 12:46 PM.
It all depends on EB3 inventory for 2007-2009, if the inventory is less than 6K, EB3 dates may move into 2010, but EB2 stay at mid 2009, next year the gap will be even worser.
EB3 to EB2 porting, why attorney's or some one in this forum suggesting to avoid, this has already done Chinese in 2014/15.
How did they downgrade? got GCs?.
My PD is Jun-2010, no AoS filed, waiting for many years, now looks like EB3 is more promising for next 1-2 years, than EB2.
Waiting for new inventory for EB3 till 2009 end, may be we know by December/Jan, based on it, need to check with current employer to downgrade or start new employer perm under EB3.
The problem with attorney's are they always want to be politically correct and impress their clients. Would the same attorney advise Not to Port from EB3 to EB2 assuming EB2 is moving faster than EB3?
Either way new 485 filers will have interview if you file in EB2 or EB3.
I would recommend to go for downgrading to EB3 if that benefits your personal life and career.
This is a subject I haven't seen discussed and I'm not sure why.
Firstly, let me say that when I was following the Chinese reverse porting, they were doing it by using their existing PERM which qualified for EB2 to file an EB3 I-140.
That's a world away from using an existing EB3 i-140 with a previous employer.
There are 2 main potential scenarios to reverse port from EB2 to EB3.
a) As described above, you use an existing PERM certification that supported an EB2 I-140 to file a new EB3 I-140.
b) An existing EB3 I-140 exists with a previous employer. You have an EB2 I-140 with your current employer. You want to file an I-485 based on the previous employer's EB3 I-140.
These are as about as different a scenario as you can imagine.
With (a) the I-140 job and pay requirementsremain unchanged, regardless of whether it's filed under EB2 or EB3. You can continue to work for your present employer post I-485 approval, should you wish.
With (b), when you file your I-485, the previous employer is swearing that they have the job described in the old I-140 and intend to employ you after the I-485 is approved at at least the minimum wage described in the I-140 petition.
In turn, the I-485 applicant is swearing that they will take up that job, with that employer, under (a minimum of) the conditions described in the I-140 petition, when their I-485 is approved.
The job described in case (b) is one with lower responsibilities and lower minimum pay requirements. Also, the PWD was obtained possibly several years before that for the separate EB2 I-140 petition.
Generally, if people leave an employer, there is a reason. Does the person want to be obligated to return to that employer?
Some employers would definitely take advantage of the situation where they could pay under market rate, because that's what the old EB3 PWD came out at. Let's not pretend they don't exist and that no one has ever worked for them.
If you file with a previous employer, you'd better be willing to go back there to work after GC. That's what you're saying when yo file that I-485. That potentially means relocating yourself and your family, depending on what has happened since you left that employer.
If you have even the slightest doubt about being prepared to do that, or think you already figure you can weasel out of that commitment because of AC21, then don't pursue this route.
To some, it might seem easier to use a previous EB3 I-140, but it is a complete can of worms IMHO. Energy is better spent getting an EB3 I-140 based on a PERM that has already supported an EB2 I-140.
I don't feel qualified to be any part of a further discussion, but I did want to at least highlight the issue.
It was the first thing that came to my mind (a long time ago) about how different the scenarios might be from the Chinese experience, when the prospect of reverse porting for India started to be discussed.
Without an irritant, there can be no pearl.
Spec.
When the chinese did it did they have the issue of the USCIS office interviewer interview the candidate and ask the question like why did you downgrade to EB3 and approve or reject 485 based on the answer? This will be a big deal if its being rejected just because you downgraded.
Thanks
Vijay
Well explained Spec. Would you be kind enough to put the time lines for the same based on the current proceing times as well? Due to my filing status, I may come up with the numbers which may be biased.
Vijay,
If you upgraded and did not get any questions, then why would you get questions when you downgrade. When a position is eligible for EB2, it is obviously eligible for EB3. If you passed, 10th grade, it means you passed 8th grade also.
Iatiam
I'm not sure I entirely understand the question.
Interms of process, there might be some differences I could see.
a) Same employer as approved EB2 I-140
This would need a new I-140 for EB3 as well as I-485 package(s) to be produced before filing.
However, the new I-140 would be basically a copy/paste of the existing approved one, bar the EB category, so not sure how that would cause a problem timewise.
No PP of I-140, so several months wait for approval, but this would probably be less than I-485 processing time.
Since it would be a concurrent filing, no 485-J supplement would be required.
There would be a wait time (unknown) for FAD to become current, but most processing and EAD/AP could be carried out in the meantime. Even if FAD current, normal processing times would apply.
b) Previous employer with approved EB3 I-140
Only preparation and filing of I-485 package(s) required.
The I-140 is already approved, so no waiting for approval, but as above, the I-485 processing would likely be the longer time frame.
Since it is a non-concurrent filing, a 485-J supplement would also be required.
There would be a wait time (unknown) for FAD to become current, but most processing and EAD/AP could be carried out in the meantime. Even if FAD current, normal processing times would apply.
Now I've answered, you can too. I've probably missed something, or misunderstood what your question was.
Without an irritant, there can be no pearl.
< >
Last edited by kb2013; 12-08-2020 at 02:32 AM.
This is what I am trying to understand. So for a guy in June 2009 with EB2, goes for EB3 I-140 filing in the above scenario takes 6 months to complete the EB3 part. He gets his EAD also approved in the same time. In the mean time if the EB2 FAD moves past the June 2009 date, what can he do? Go back to EB2? This is what I see as an absolute waste of resources and time.But as I said earlier, my opinion might be clouded by the fact that I have an Eb3 petition.
I don't like to use the Pending Inventory, but that is the only data point we have. So, per PI, EB1 7,557.00, EB2=18,223.00, EB3=1,696.00. It is a no brainer to Port to EB3. So, my advice for EB2 upgraded folks who are current in EB3 should file in EB3 without any doubt in their mind. The only factor that could favor EB2I que is if there is huge SO from EB2ROW. What do the gurus think about that scenario?
It may be no brainer for the person who is porting. However we need to realize time factor is important. Visa's are use it or lose it every year. I will give you a time line of visa loss for EB3 from FY 2010 - 2017. The lost number for EB3 is 14277 for this time period.
EB1, EB2, EB3, Other, 3Total - EB Total, FY
===============================---
41,026 53,872 37,669 4,762 42,431 - 150,657 2010 EB3 - 657 short
25,229 66,804 33,734 3,691 37,425 - 140,000 2011 EB3 - 2615 short
39,387 50,593 35,457 4,092 39,549 - 144,951 2012 EB3 - 1907 short
39,058 63,461 40,774 2,966 43,740 - 140,000
40,608 49,071 40,428 2,271 42,699 - 150,241 2014 EB3 - 270 short
41,990 44,479 35,421 2,029 37,450 - 144,796 2015 EB3 - 3962 short
43,723 39,111 33,669 3,871 37,540 - 140,338 2016 EB3 - 2596 short
41,828 39,961 34,938 2,832 37,770 - 140,000 2017 EB3 - 2270 short
10 years back, we had tons and tons of debates why EB2 is a class apart even though technically 90% the positions in EB2 should have been EB3. People fought in their company for their EB2. Now when they see EB3 moving forward, have really no qualms to downgrade at the first available opportunity, even though their EB2 dates might be current soon.
So my point is, people have an EB3 with former employer, can go ahead and use it without any problem. Once you get your GC, you can work multiple jobs/W2's/1099, so you can even satisfy the future employment criteria as well.
If you used an EB2 porting for your existing EB3 petition, tough luck if your company or attorney is not receptive of your downgrade request. This is employment GC we are talking about, and even though Spec say that as baloney, I agree with the Attorney/Employer view on this.
I even have a personal situation when me and a colleague of mine were the only H1's in our team a decade back. We both had our GC's filed in late 2010, he had a Dec 2010 and I had a Feb 2011 both in EB3. Our career path was also had similar as we got promoted to senior roles in 2014. We were eligible for EB2 upgrades, we discussed with each other and my colleague upgraded while I did not. At that time, he was expecting the GC or EAD to happen very soon, and he also pro-actively went and did the medicals during September 2015 only to face the reversal. He was very upset when I told him that you could have waited for few more days. Spend lot of money on advocacy and what not, but no avail.
Even though his date is late 2010, he contacted the attorney to see if they can activate the original EB3 petition. The attorneys pretty much said what the other users have posted with respect to companies ability to file for EB2 in future if the candidate activate a prior EB3 petition. He is trying to get a Sr. VP level authorization to HR to downgrade his petition. But his direct manager (Indian-USC) warned against that approach as it might result unnecessary scrutiny with respect to hiring of visa candidates for positions. So every person he talks to, work from the angle benefitting them.
Again I reiterate, I have an EB3 petition, so my opinions will be biased on this subject.
Last edited by AceMan; 09-21-2018 at 09:23 AM.
I have a EB2-I PD of March 2011 - way far out. But I did drop a email to my company's immigration team about filing a new I-140 in EB3 and also asked about company's (large silicon valley company) policy around this. The response I got was that, the company will be okay applying for a new I-140 and "downgrade" after the EB3-I priority date passes March 2011. They will not apply for a new I-140 in advance. I can understand their rationale as there likely are hundreds of people in my situation and they do not want to apply 100s of duplicate I-140s.
So based on my limited reading of trackitt posts and here, it looks like, extra I-140 application in advance is likely easier in smaller companies. But many large companies will wait out a bit, till there is a tsunami of requests.
It also tells me that (assuming my mainstream employer is how many other employers behave), once EB3-I date advances past April 2010, people in EB2-I will start applying for I-485 in EB3 and that is when the movement in dates will slow down to a crawl.
Last edited by rocketfast; 09-21-2018 at 11:40 AM.
For FY 18, Eb2/3 India got a combined visa of around 9500 numbers (6603 + 2879). This year I expect this combined number to be over 10,000.
I re-analyzed the numbers, and I can see that disparity between EB2 and EB3 is so high that people are definitely going to choose the faster route anyways if they can (Approved I-140's. EB2- 216,000 EB3 -55,000 till 2018) .
So from now on for all practical purpose I am going see EB2 and 3 as one queue, with the filing numbers favoring EB3 for a while.
We need to factor in that not many from July 2007 have not yet been greened yet, which might hold the EB3 final dates on Jan 1st 2009 for the next bulletin as well, while Eb2 I might advance couple of weeks.
I would say Eb3 FAD moving past EB2 will happen earliest by Jan, again dependent on how many EB3 filers are already there.
AceMan,
When do you expect EB2 final action dates to reach May 2010?
Lets see, as per July DD we have about 15,500 for 2009 though to May 2010. Take 1000 out for first 3 months, we might be starting the FY 19 with around 14,500. These are the active people who have done their AOS. There is very limited chance for this crowd to downgrade to EB3.
However if the people, EB2 porters with no AOS, use EB3 to do AOS, these people will not get added to EB2 queue all. Since most of the original EB2 filers till May 2010 have done the adjustment already, we can hope the 14500 along with few more would be the actual numbers. I will ball park it to 16,000.
For FY 18 Eb2 I would have got about 4000-5000 visas. So with around 5000 visas a year, EB2 I will take 3 years to reach May 2010. If we get 8000 it will be 2 years from now.
I have to say the EB2 people without AOS is in a tough spot, and they should migrate if it is possible. I know, It is a change from my previous stance over the last few post, but as I said I was biased based on my personal EB3 situation.
Thanks AceMan.
Can you confirm if those 8000 spill overs are from EB2-ROW?
Are we expecting any vertical spill over to EB2-India this year? If yes, how much would that be, since EB1-India is in retro?
Nothing vertical for FY 2019. That is the only absolute fact here. There was a some I-140 approved document earlier this May, which showed there are 34,000 EB1 India already. EB2 hopes are all horizontal only. Any leftovers from EB3 also goes to EB1 as Spec has explained some time back.
What is your prediction about EB3-I filing dates — will they continue to get accepted, move back, move forward...? What do you think about EB2 filing dates?
There is a increase in H1 denial rate for Q3/Q4 for 2017/18, which may increase RoW spill over this year, if the trend continues...
Only RoW denial counts, India denial won't count as its backlogged.
@Aceman
Eb2 guys have aos until may 2010. Now eb3 guys will have aos til oct 2009. So what is preventing uscis in moving filing date for eb2 to oct 2009? I see not many people are in that range wating on aos. Moving to eb3 will take around 6 to 8 months for i-140 to be approved. It might be less hassle in waiting in eb2 queue since they might move date to oct 2009 in two monts?
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