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[Kanmani]

Malaysian Flight crashes near the border between Ukraine and Russia, carrying 295 souls on board was bound to kuala lumpur from Amsterdam. Ukrainian officials suggests that the plane might have shot down by a missile and assures they didn't do that.

[qesehmk]

Guys here is to the unfortunate souls on the Malaysian plane shot down today. I don't understand sometimes what makes people lose all their conscience and do something like this.

[pdfeb09]

Guys here is to the unfortunate souls on the Malaysian plane shot down today. I don't understand sometimes what makes people lose all their conscience and do something like this.

The idiot who pulled the trigger must have been effing blind ... tells you something about the consequences of military grade hardware in the hands of nuts .. the victims included eminent scientists researching HIV/AIDS .... just makes your blood boil .. sorry for the rant ..

PS: will move this to the thread started by Kanmani ..

[Ramsen]

The idiot who pulled the trigger must have been effing blind ... tells you something about the consequences of military grade hardware in the hands of nuts .. the victims included eminent scientists researching HIV/AIDS .... just makes your blood boil .. sorry for the rant ..

PS: will move this to the thread started by Kanmani ..

Again it gives a warning that if sophisticated weapons are given to Terrorists what can happen. If nuclear bomb is given to them they will not hesitate to test that also. It is a big deal for crashing a passenger flight which is 20 to 30 thousand feet by a missile. Now this will go away with no action and terrorists will become more bold

[sportsfan33]

1) 3 Muslim students (husband-wife, and the husband's sister) shot dead in the head by an angry and clearly racist lunatic at the UNC campus. It is taking the police forever to label it what it is - a hate crime. Apparently, this was a dispute over a parking spot.
2) An Indian grandpa (Mr. Patel) is walking peacefully on the sidewalk in his everyday morning routine in Alabama. Some paranoid (and possibly racist) person calls the cops over "suspicions" that this man is "peeking in our garages". Cops show up. Grandpa reaches his pocket possibly to take out his identification (he had a green card). His head meets the pavement the next moment and he is paralyzed.

What is scary? Anyone of us could easily be in any of those 2 situations.

Are we seriously in the right country? This country is full of mentally deranged people who are devoid of any soul. Some girls in my daughter's kindergarten class have already started talks of dating and marriage (I don't have to mention the fact they are not Indian).

Sometimes I wonder why the hell I spent my better parts of the years waiting for that GC anyway.

I hope there is true justice, but I am not betting it in either case. I also realize how wrong my perception was in the shooting of Michael Brown.

[qesehmk]

Some paranoid (and possibly racist) person calls the cops

You are being generous... Racism is alive and possibly growing since there is a section of white folks mostly in south that their culture is under assault.

Most of these folks do fit a good stereotype - gun-toting / southern / white / male / rush limbaugh - palin fans / tea nuts.

But thankfully America is much bigger than these nuts.

[srimurthy]

You are being generous... Racism is alive and possibly growing since there is a section of white folks mostly in south that their culture is under assault.

Most of these folks do fit a good stereotype - gun-toting / southern / white / male / rush limbaugh - palin fans / tea nuts.

But thankfully America is much bigger than these nuts.

And to be fair back home it is not that the grass is green. Girls are not safe, women alone can't go to a movie and not sure they can travel safe in an auto / cab which is a far cry from when as a kid we could travel easily in public transport.
The value for life and others hard earned money is zilch and that is all because the primary education for all is a dream. We have long back moved from a savings society to a spending society. Effects of which will be felt soon on the GDP and economy.

[qesehmk]

True... can't deny that too.
p.s. In terms of Savings vs Spending .... the problem is not Spending as much. Spending is actually good since it indicates living standard. The problem is spending without producing i.e. inflated unrealistic asset prices backed by unproductive economy. We have begun to spend what we don't have.

And to be fair back home it is not that the grass is green. Girls are not safe, women alone can't go to a movie and not sure they can travel safe in an auto / cab which is a far cry from when as a kid we could travel easily in public transport.
The value for life and others hard earned money is zilch and that is all because the primary education for all is a dream. We have long back moved from a savings society to a spending society. Effects of which will be felt soon on the GDP and economy.

[pdfeb09]

1) 3 Muslim students (husband-wife, and the husband's sister) shot dead in the head by an angry and clearly racist lunatic at the UNC campus. It is taking the police forever to label it what it is - a hate crime. Apparently, this was a dispute over a parking spot.
2) An Indian grandpa (Mr. Patel) is walking peacefully on the sidewalk in his everyday morning routine in Alabama. Some paranoid (and possibly racist) person calls the cops over "suspicions" that this man is "peeking in our garages". Cops show up. Grandpa reaches his pocket possibly to take out his identification (he had a green card). His head meets the pavement the next moment and he is paralyzed.

What is scary? Anyone of us could easily be in any of those 2 situations.

Are we seriously in the right country? This country is full of mentally deranged people who are devoid of any soul. Some girls in my daughter's kindergarten class have already started talks of dating and marriage (I don't have to mention the fact they are not Indian).

Sometimes I wonder why the hell I spent my better parts of the years waiting for that GC anyway.

I hope there is true justice, but I am not betting it in either case. I also realize how wrong my perception was in the shooting of Michael Brown.

Sports .. while the scourge of racism has not been eliminated from the American society, this society is far ahead of scores of others, including back home, when it comes to identifying the problem and actively doing something about it. I do not condone or belittle any of the incidences you mentioned, however, there is more chance of getting some kind of justice here than any other place in the world.

You are being generous... Racism is alive and possibly growing since there is a section of white folks mostly in south that their culture is under assault.

Most of these folks do fit a good stereotype - gun-toting / southern / white / male / rush limbaugh - palin fans / tea nuts.

But thankfully America is much bigger than these nuts.

Q .. Usually the South gets the rap for these things (may be because of Jim Crow laws) when many non-south places are equally bad. Talk about Texas, Arizona .. In case of mid-west ... the population is mostly white and the opportunity there to feel insecure and act out is less.. except for a few cities..

I agree South does have it's share of nuts but rest of the America is not without them either. I, however, agree with you that America is much bigger than all these nuts from various places put together .. and most of the America, thankfully, places high values on morals and ethics over the race ..

I know quite a few folks who display all the characteristics of the so called nuts on social media( and while debating certain issues), but are very understanding, encouraging and logical when talked to in person .. it is hard to tell what their real thinking is .. do they do it just to fit in with their crowd while internally being nice .. or is it the other way round ..

I live in the South .. by the way ..

[pdfeb09]

True... can't deny that too.
p.s. In terms of Savings vs Spending .... the problem is not Spending as much. Spending is actually good since it indicates living standard. The problem is spending without producing i.e. inflated unrealistic asset prices backed by unproductive economy. We have begun to spend what we don't have.

For the Indian economy, so long as there is cheap and skilled labor available in India, and the INR is cheaper than the rest of currency, there will be jobs .. if the education system in India keeps pace with the innovations going on in the world, we will have cheap labor for the world .. the GDP will keep growing .. hopefully, innovation (the one that helps the entire world and not just locally for regional folks - read jugad) picks up and we start innovating,producing and consuming locally .. the sheer population and the demand will make the American market not so significant in that case.. energy is the biggest concern..

[qesehmk]

Q .. Usually the South gets the rap for these things (may be because of Jim Crow laws) when many non-south places are equally bad. Talk about Texas, Arizona .. In case of mid-west ... the population is mostly white and the opportunity there to feel insecure and act out is less.. except for a few cities..

pdfeb - thanks for your thoughts. I live in Arizona. Arizona and Texas are quite republican. They are not as bad as Alabama. But they certainly don't stand shoulder to should with east or west coast. I have also lived in mid-west. My general experience in midwest was very nice. People were generally very courteous. So when we moved to AZ - we were aghast at the sight of people spitting, trashing and honking .... not to mention what we initially perceived as outright rude way of treating customers. But now we have kind of adjusted here. The state is beautiful and people are somewhere in the middle. They are not too radical left or right.

hopefully, innovation (the one that helps the entire world and not just locally for regional folks - read jugad) picks up and we start innovating,producing and consuming locally .. the sheer population and the demand will make the American market not so significant in that case..

Bingo. That's what I was referring to. India is moving ahead but is way far behind because of structural problems in the economy, governance and judiciary. The politicians don't quite help either Oink oink.

[imdeng]

Sports - I completely get what you are saying. I shudder to think that my folks, who visited last summer, used to walk everywhere in the neighborhood almost every morning; and this could easily have happened to them. we currently live in a conservative neighborhood (the one that essentially elected Scott Walker) and there is a palpable and growing sense of something-not-quite-alright around.

Thankfully, the whole country is not like that. There are pockets where immigrants are accepted, welcomed and celebrated even. It is up to us to find those enclaves and essentially vote with our feet.

Update: I should also mention that I am not far from the Sikh Temple Shootings a little while back. So something horrible has happened very close to me. However, a violent action by a mentally ill person is something very different than police violence. My interactions with local police here in WI has all uniformly left a bad taste in the mouth.

1)...
What is scary? Anyone of us could easily be in any of those 2 situations.

Are we seriously in the right country? This country is full of mentally deranged people who are devoid of any soul. ...

[imdeng]

Well said Q. Unrealistic asset prices are going to crash sometime soon - and that is going to hurt a lot of people.

True... can't deny that too.
p.s. In terms of Savings vs Spending .... the problem is not Spending as much. Spending is actually good since it indicates living standard. The problem is spending without producing i.e. inflated unrealistic asset prices backed by unproductive economy. We have begun to spend what we don't have.

[qesehmk]

The video of the Indian guy who was mishandled by Alabama police. Nobody should be treated this way - neither a 57 year old nor a 27 year old. You watch and decide.

http://www.waff.com/clip/11130956/ra...autostart=true

[imdeng]

After the video, the cop responsible has been arrested and will likely be fired. http://www.dailykos.com/story/2015/0...ficer-arrested

I am very encouraged by the response that the event has received. There are corners of the country where hate/racism flourishes, but the mainstream and the rule of law is alive and well.

The video of the Indian guy who was mishandled by Alabama police. Nobody should be treated this way - neither a 57 year old nor a 27 year old. You watch and decide.

http://www.waff.com/clip/11130956/ra...autostart=true

[qesehmk]

After the video, the cop responsible has been arrested and will likely be fired. http://www.dailykos.com/story/2015/0...ficer-arrested

I am very encouraged by the response that the event has received. There are corners of the country where hate/racism flourishes, but the mainstream and the rule of law is alive and well.

Yes imdeng and i have seen mostly sympathetic reactions from most people. Most people were outraged. I hope the person fully recovers. That will be worth more to him than any multimillion dollar lawsuit.

[gten20]

After the video, the cop responsible has been arrested and will likely be fired. http://www.dailykos.com/story/2015/0...ficer-arrested

I am very encouraged by the response that the event has received. There are corners of the country where hate/racism flourishes, but the mainstream and the rule of law is alive and well.

Not just fired. The Cop has been criminally charged with third degree assault.

[sportsfan33]

Sports .. while the scourge of racism has not been eliminated from the American society, this society is far ahead of scores of others, including back home, when it comes to identifying the problem and actively doing something about it. I do not condone or belittle any of the incidences you mentioned, however, there is more chance of getting some kind of justice here than any other place in the world.

Sorry, I don't agree.

This is "manifest destiny" indoctrination. It somehow makes you believe America is unique and exceptional. It's not.

America's problems are pronounced because it is a violent culture. Yes, racism problems are everywhere but you would rarely see them transformed like they are in the US. Insulted? yes, that happens. Violently attacked/killed/paralyzed? Must be the good ol' US.

Also, you are misinformed about the so called "justice" in the US. It doesn't always happen.

Yes, not everyone in the south has experienced this. Indian community here has always shied from social justice issues in the US somehow thinking they are immune from its problems. But the incident in Alabama should be an eye opener. It could be anyone's dad. My dad is nearly 80, doesn't speak English well, doesn't hear that well now, but is still physically active and likes to take walks.

I have told him to spend his money for traveling elsewhere. I don't want him to visit the US ever again.

P.S. Also, claiming the US is ahead of other societies in terms of coping with racial issues is a slap in the faces of nearly all developing countries including India. This country did not treat a significant portion of its population as humans as recently as 50 years ago. India opened its first school for women in 1848 under the boots of British Raj.

[sportsfan33]

Thankfully, the whole country is not like that. There are pockets where immigrants are accepted, welcomed and celebrated even. It is up to us to find those enclaves and essentially vote with our feet.

Those pockets are US metros where immigrants are substantial in numbers, sometimes even the majority.

[sportsfan33]

Bingo. That's what I was referring to. India is moving ahead but is way far behind because of structural problems in the economy, governance and judiciary. The politicians don't quite help either Oink oink.

Q, I think India is far ahead in "humanity".

[imdeng]

India, outside the metros, is a very different place. US, outside the crazy conclaves, is a very different place. Same goes for almost every other place.

When I first landed in the country, I was shocked to see the poverty. I am still shocked by the inherent, structural, racial bias in almost everything. I can not wrap my head around all the science-denial. I laugh at all the "american exceptionalism" talk. However, within all this, this is the most immigrant friendly place in the world. It allows for the kind of freedom that does not exist in most of the world. My wife consistently maintains that she can handle all the challenges of the US to escape the gender-bias of India.

It is up to us to help make US as better place since we have a stake in its future. So be a better citizen, lead by example, show the racially-biased that you are better than their stereotypes. Be politically active - vote if you are citizen, contribute to candidates and parties that support your rights if you have a GC and are legally allowed to contribute. I am quite disappointed by the low voter turnout in Asian and Hispanic communities - less than 50% in the 2014 elections!

The country is in the middle of a tremendous demographic upheaval. Many people, who previously enjoyed direct access to power, prestige and influence, feel very threatened by this change. They will push back in their own, sometimes violent way. But this tide will not stop - our children will live in a minority-majority America. A good part of America is fine with it - we need to join and support that part and help make this a better place.

Q, I think India is far ahead in "humanity".

[qesehmk]

Q, I think India is far ahead in "humanity".

No doubt sport. Not just India - in general the East is far ahead in humanity than the West.

Western humanity starts where they completely vanquish other cultures and societies. They do not understand co-existence. Their equality comes not out of human compassion but rather as a means to achieve stability, wealth, and continuity.

I haven't figured out whether I would be happier in a place where people commit hundreds of small injustices to others but are fairly non-violent OR whether I would be happier in a place where if you live through the night - the day generally goes quite well.

[sportsfan33]

No doubt sport. Not just India - in general the East is far ahead in humanity than the West.

Western humanity starts where they completely vanquish other cultures and societies. They do not understand co-existence. Their equality comes not out of human compassion but rather as a means to achieve stability, wealth, and continuity.

I haven't figured out whether I would be happier in a place where people commit hundreds of small injustices to others but are fairly non-violent OR whether I would be happier in a place where if you live through the night - the day generally goes quite well.

Q, that's an excellent way of putting it. You are very eloquent.

I used to be in the latter camp, but lately, I have changed, and I am going to the former camp.

I don't think however if the 2 camps are mutually exclusive. The hundreds of small injustices are a direct result of poverty. It's possible that the fundamental process of wealth creation is ugly and violent, and maybe that's why the West created it and we didn't. However once created, the process of wealth sharing doesn't have to be like this. Let's circle back on this in 10 years when India has gone further along its wealth curve.

Imdeng, I agree with all your points. Everything you say is true...until...it isn't. I cannot take away the disturbing video out of my head because I see my dad there. In one instant, everything could fall apart, and it is inconceivable anywhere else in the world. Everything that happened after that event is also extraordinary. This whole thing is so diabolical and wrong on so many levels (right from the racist paranoid caller) that I find it hard to not get disgusted. I have been called on once just like this, and I had a "visit". It's an experience I have never told anyone before.

[pdfeb09]

Sorry, I don't agree.

This is "manifest destiny" indoctrination. It somehow makes you believe America is unique and exceptional. It's not.

America's problems are pronounced because it is a violent culture. Yes, racism problems are everywhere but you would rarely see them transformed like they are in the US. Insulted? yes, that happens. Violently attacked/killed/paralyzed? Must be the good ol' US.

Also, you are misinformed about the so called "justice" in the US. It doesn't always happen.

Yes, not everyone in the south has experienced this. Indian community here has always shied from social justice issues in the US somehow thinking they are immune from its problems. But the incident in Alabama should be an eye opener. It could be anyone's dad. My dad is nearly 80, doesn't speak English well, doesn't hear that well now, but is still physically active and likes to take walks.

I have told him to spend his money for traveling elsewhere. I don't want him to visit the US ever again.

P.S. Also, claiming the US is ahead of other societies in terms of coping with racial issues is a slap in the faces of nearly all developing countries including India. This country did not treat a significant portion of its population as humans as recently as 50 years ago. India opened its first school for women in 1848 under the boots of British Raj.

Sports .. Justice does not always happen here in USA .. I agree .. however, I will maintain that when it comes to accepting that a particular problem exists and taking steps to improve it holistically, this country has been at the fore front.

Also, you are mixing racism and sexism.

Saying that India opened its first school for women in 1848 under the boots of British Raj does not absolve India from the general treatment meted out to women overall ..when you compare the treatment of women in general in both the countries, where do you think the situation is better?

I actually typed up a long post pointing out the racism back home (and violent at that) and other problems, but then realized, I am bashing India too much and unnecessarily in the wrong post.

Problems exist everywhere .. there needs to be a mindset to acknowledge them, study the root causes and work on them gradually .. I just think the USA and western countries overall have done more or have a better approach towards it ...

I also agree with Q that the history has been that the western cultures were actually barbaric and without morals back in the days .. but may be because of that they have learnt to handle it and at least acknowledge it ....

I love India .. and wouldn't trade a single minute of my time I spent there starting from my birth for anything ... but we travel and we learn ..

This is my last on the subject...

[pdfeb09]

No doubt sport. Not just India - in general the East is far ahead in humanity than the West.

Western humanity starts where they completely vanquish other cultures and societies. They do not understand co-existence. Their equality comes not out of human compassion but rather as a means to achieve stability, wealth, and continuity.

I haven't figured out whether I would be happier in a place where people commit hundreds of small injustices to others but are fairly non-violent OR whether I would be happier in a place where if you live through the night - the day generally goes quite well.

Q ... just ask somebody in the rural parts(something outside Maharashtra .. somewhere in the bodo lands .. or in Bihar .. or .. dare I say Kashmir) of India to give you an example of the places you just described .. do you think the answers will be what you think the answers are?

Plus the definition of small injustices and fairly non-violent will differ .. not to mention surviving-the-night anecdotes ..

It depends upon what part of India we compare to what part of the USA .. comparing the rural part of South to Pune or Mumbai would be unfair (you did not do it explicitly .. my assumption .. I shouldn't assume too much ..) .. Compare NYC to Mumbai .. or a rural part of the south to a village in Bihar .. or MP or Chhattisgarh .. try the Chambal area .. if you so desire ...

Just realized that Imdeng had put this thought very concisely in his post ..

Again .. I do not want to sound like bashing my beloved home .. I am being too harsh .. I understand .. and we are actually digressing .. the point is .. USA is working towards solving the problems that it acknowledges it has .. Is it there yet ? NO

Is India working towards solving the problems it has .. Yes .. is it easy .. NO ... is it doing a better job than the USA? ... probably NOT ... are the people in general bad? NO .. the politicians back home thrive on the existing problems and have no real will to solve them ..

I broke my word to Sport about the last post .. but this really is my last ..