Stop EB1 Fraud

[smithsingh]

Sorry for going off topic... However, I feel there is an urgent need to stop abuse of EB1C..

Dear Friends,

There is a lot of misuse of EB1C category going on these days. Below are two examples.

1. People create small companies of 5-6 people sitting in remote villages in India. They have a so called multinational manager heading them who can create fake papers in India. They then come to USA and apply for EB1C as multinational managers. Once they get their green card in 6 months, they move aside and let another multinational manager take the spot. And the cycle continues giving EB1C green card to illiterate people.

2. Software giants like TCS, CTS, are misusing it big time to get EB1C visa for their employees and therefore avoiding the H1B route of paying fees every 3 years. These employees as just BE + 3 years experience and they have one person reporting to them and then they claim to be multinational managers.

Please follow the following steps to stop this abuse
1. Please sign this petition: http://www.petition2congress.com/6398/stop-eb1-...
2. Please contact your Senators and Congressmen personally and make them aware of the misuse. Remember that sending emails personally to Senators and congressmen will stop this misuse.

Stopping abuse of EB1C will give EB2 their rightful spillover.... Please spread the word !!! Try and mobilize the fight against misuse...

[Pchirumalla]

Sent the petition.

[singh1]

signed the petition

[raminator]

Sorry for going off topic... However, I feel there is an urgent need to stop abuse of EB1C..

Dear Friends,

There is a lot of misuse of EB1C category going on these days. Below are two examples.

1. People create small companies of 5-6 people sitting in remote villages in India. They have a so called multinational manager heading them who can create fake papers in India. They then come to USA and apply for EB1C as multinational managers. Once they get their green card in 6 months, they move aside and let another multinational manager take the spot. And the cycle continues giving EB1C green card to illiterate people.

2. Software giants like TCS, CTS, are misusing it big time to get EB1C visa for their employees and therefore avoiding the H1B route of paying fees every 3 years. These employees as just BE + 3 years experience and they have one person reporting to them and then they claim to be multinational managers.

Please follow the following steps to stop this abuse
1. Please sign this petition: http://www.petition2congress.com/6398/stop-eb1-...
2. Please contact your Senators and Congressmen personally and make them aware of the misuse. Remember that sending emails personally to Senators and congressmen will stop this misuse.

Stopping abuse of EB1C will give EB2 their rightful spillover.... Please spread the word !!! Try and mobilize the fight against misuse...

Signed the petition.

[Jagan01]

Sorry for going off topic... However, I feel there is an urgent need to stop abuse of EB1C..

Dear Friends,

There is a lot of misuse of EB1C category going on these days. Below are two examples.

1. People create small companies of 5-6 people sitting in remote villages in India. They have a so called multinational manager heading them who can create fake papers in India. They then come to USA and apply for EB1C as multinational managers. Once they get their green card in 6 months, they move aside and let another multinational manager take the spot. And the cycle continues giving EB1C green card to illiterate people.

2. Software giants like TCS, CTS, are misusing it big time to get EB1C visa for their employees and therefore avoiding the H1B route of paying fees every 3 years. These employees as just BE + 3 years experience and they have one person reporting to them and then they claim to be multinational managers.

Please follow the following steps to stop this abuse
1. Please sign this petition: http://www.petition2congress.com/6398/stop-eb1-...
2. Please contact your Senators and Congressmen personally and make them aware of the misuse. Remember that sending emails personally to Senators and congressmen will stop this misuse.

Stopping abuse of EB1C will give EB2 their rightful spillover.... Please spread the word !!! Try and mobilize the fight against misuse...

Gurus,
Please suggest ideal steps to stop this EB1C abuse. I know many people here like Kanmani, Q, MATTM etc. have a nice understanding of the rules. Anything that we can do to ask USCIS to take steps to curb this EB1C abuse. Steps that do not require law changes but administration changes would be ideal.

Any ideas ?

[idiotic]

Gurus,
Please suggest ideal steps to stop this EB1C abuse. I know many people here like Kanmani, Q, MATTM etc. have a nice understanding of the rules. Anything that we can do to ask USCIS to take steps to curb this EB1C abuse. Steps that do not require law changes but administration changes would be ideal.

Any ideas ?

http://www.uscis.gov/avoid-scams/rep...igration-scams

[qesehmk]

Guys moved the discussion in its own thread. Please post your thoughts here rather than using the calculations thread.

Please be respectful to majority of EB1s who are talented people - if you have any opinions please state constructively.

[asankaran]

Hi everyone,

I have appointment with my local congressman to discuss the abuse of EB1 C by Indian companies. I am right now collecting data regarding filings of EB1 cases. If you have guys have any information on the number of filings with company name last year, please share it with me along with source of information.

Thank you!

[cancer24]

May not be directly relevant but let me share my story. I worked for a top Indian IT company for 16 years including 7 years on L1-A but my GC was not processed and I was managing a team of 150+ people at the time of resignation. I ended up joining another small firm three years back and now have applied in EB2. I now hear that my old company started processing GCs and anyone who on L1-A visa is getting GC in EB1 (they need not be real managers). They are doing it just to be ready for CIR that will restrict them to lesser expats. I can certainly say that they are abusing EB1.

[Jagan01]

Hi everyone,

I have appointment with my local congressman to discuss the abuse of EB1 C by Indian companies. I am right now collecting data regarding filings of EB1 cases. If you have guys have any information on the number of filings with company name last year, please share it with me along with source of information.

Thank you!

Hi,

thanks for taking the initiative. Hoping you are in some state other than CA as I have already put this forward to CA senators multiple times.

1. You need to highlight that these managerial jobs could have been taken by locals (american citizens) and there is no check like PERM that is preventing this. Explain how PERM is in place for a reason to avoid jobs being lost by american citizens. But somehow it is intentionally ignored for EB1C.
2. Also compare EB1C with EB1A and EB1B and state that they are not at the same level intellectually.
3. Highlight that avg EB1C in the same locality is lesser than avg EB2 salary. For EB2 and EB3 they check prevailing wage to ensure that the candidate is earning enough and employee and employer are collectively not fooling USCIS. Why is that not in place for EB1C.

[seattlet]

I think if USCIS can come up with a simple rule that specifies that folks filing for EB1 C should make atleast 200K - 250 K then 99.999 % of the Eb1 C abuses would go away. If a multinational manager doesnt make that much money there is no reason for him to get preferential treatment. (He is simply another run of the mill employee)

This will restrict EB1 C to real executives like VP's senior directors etc (for whom it was intended)

it should not be that tough to implement. Just like EB 5 has 2 million / 500K limit.

Hi,

thanks for taking the initiative. Hoping you are in some state other than CA as I have already put this forward to CA senators multiple times.

1. You need to highlight that these managerial jobs could have been taken by locals (american citizens) and there is no check like PERM that is preventing this. Explain how PERM is in place for a reason to avoid jobs being lost by american citizens. But somehow it is intentionally ignored for EB1C.
2. Also compare EB1C with EB1A and EB1B and state that they are not at the same level intellectually.
3. Highlight that avg EB1C in the same locality is lesser than avg EB2 salary. For EB2 and EB3 they check prevailing wage to ensure that the candidate is earning enough and employee and employer are collectively not fooling USCIS. Why is that not in place for EB1C.

[Jagan01]

Spec, Do you think the fact that companies like TCS (Tata Consultancy Services) who in their history never processed Green Cards have started processing EB1 for their more senior folks have any effect on overall EB1 usage. I've 3 friends in TCS and all of them got theirs GCs in EB1 category in the last 1 month or so. My guess is approximately 2000-3000 TCS people will get it before September 30th.

Hope this doesn't impact people with PDs till Q1 2009.

Hopefully the below flower campaign might have some impact.

http://www.trackitt.com/usa-discussi...page/last_page

[qesehmk]

For an outsider EB1C looks like abuse. But those companies are playing by the rules set by DOS and DHS. With all the anti immigrant sentiment they would be foolish to break the rules. Also consider this ... now a days there is an army of people from India in IT industry who are now industry veterans with 15-20 years of solid experience. They may not be product engineers but hey EB1C doesn't demand that. All that EB1C demands is you be a manager in a foreign country 1 out of last 3 years or so. Is it that hard to imagine that there may be 5000 Indians with 15 years of experience of which one out of last 3 years is in a managerial role?

That's why I think it makes no sense to tie employment immigration to any number. If a company wants an employee in US let them bring him here. Just make sure the guys get real wages.

Q, what I see in those numbers is a ridiculously high percent of EB1C. I know this forum is not the right place to talk about it, but that's what glaringly sticks out like a sore sight to the eyes. What I would want to know is: a) how many are from India, and b) how many are from Infy/CTS/TCS.

Edit: I also feel that in terms of absolute numbers, EB1A/B have been dropping over the years...especially EB1B, which seems very hard to get nowadays. If EB1C was absent, EB1 would easily provide tremendous spillover every year to the extent of putting EB2I/C near current.

[vizcard]

There will always be loopholes that people will exploit and bending the rules in other cases. I personally know of cases where the individual is the "desi consulting" model and does not get paid while on the bench. But they somehow manage to provide paystubs that show continuous salary.

I'm also of the school of thought that keeping your PD while porting is crap (and my brother in law is trying to do that btw). But that's the law of the land so we have to deal with it unless there's legislative relief.

[CleanSock]

I hope one day EB1C becomes like L1A/B where they increase the scrutiny so much that only deserving people get it.

Since it's moved to a new thread, I will chime in more.

"Bending" the rules is a straight euphemism for fraud. I don't sugarcoat it like that. Yes, I don't know how much more desi consultancies should be maligned if not enough already. The only silver lining is that there is precedent from the USCIS to stop it - look at a) substitute labor and b) kazarian memo as the 2 most recent measures they took to curb/eliminate fraud. I strongly feel such a measure is just coming to the way of EB1C.

The "bench model" and "EVC models" have already been scrutinized. Personally, I simply feel pity towards people who let themselves be exploited like that. However the other H1B stakeholders may not view it that way. I read stories of US educated PhD folks who were not selected in the H1B lottery this year and their careers were devastated. Not much is done to protect the true stakeholders in the H1B abuse cases too. When I got my H1B, they were still relatively easy to obtain, but it all changed in 2008, and I feel bad for the deserving folks who had to struggle even for an H1B.

I also agree that PD porting is crap. The only reason we are able to deal with it is because fortunately, the USCIS has made it tremendously difficult to port. It routinely discourages about 90% people at the onset and they have to go through a lot of hassle to port. This has benefited EB2 over the years by managing the porting demand. Still, porting is continuing to increase and this year, we will know where it is trending. I agree that everyone in EB3 with a PD > 2005 is attempting to port and it's just a ticking bomb. Whether it diffuses slowly or explodes remains to be seen.

There we go. Honestly, if I had known of these immigration pitfalls, I would have made drastically different career choices 14 years ago. I could still salvage my career (and my wife could salvage hers) thanks to the movement in 2012. I do hope though to give warnings to future aspirant high quality immigrants and let them know that they are venturing into the most corrupt system in the world (pains to say this).

[gcpursuit]

My EB2-NIW petition was denied back in 2008 due to lack of number of citations though USCIS agreed that my work is in national interest. If they are scrutinizing so much for non-perm categories, I am just amazed how EB1C is so easy (based on denials in trackitt for EB1C).

[vyruss]

My EB2-NIW petition was denied back in 2008 due to lack of number of citations though USCIS agreed that my work is in national interest. If they are scrutinizing so much for non-perm categories, I am just amazed how EB1C is so easy (based on denials in trackitt for EB1C).

All the venting on the forums is not going to do any of us any good. What are some of the avenues that can be explored to stem the abuse of this (EB1C) category. Just putting a Ph.d from a top tier research university (EB1A) and a mediocre (EB1C) applicant under the same EB1 umbrella is gut-wrenching. Can you imagine someone doing groundbreaking research being in the same overarching category as someone with 2-3 years IT experience with one "Tester" reporting to him/her? That is what EB1 has become. At least dilute the qualifications for EB1A and EB1B so that it is not look as bad as the status-quo.

So how do we address this? What are some of the top approaches that come to your mind. I am of the impression that petitions are not going to result in any near term solution. Legislative changes are not going to happen with the current anti-immigrant sentiment running high in the GOP. What does that leave us with? I am going to say again ...venting on forums is not an option

[gcpursuit]

All the venting on the forums is not going to do any of us any good. What are some of the avenues that can be explored to stem the abuse of this (EB1C) category. Just putting a Ph.d from a top tier research university (EB1A) and a mediocre (EB1C) applicant under the same EB1 umbrella is gut-wrenching. Can you imagine someone doing groundbreaking research being in the same overarching category as someone with 2-3 years IT experience with one "Tester" reporting to him/her? That is what EB1 has become. At least dilute the qualifications for EB1A and EB1B so that it is not look as bad as the status-quo.

So how do we address this? What are some of the top approaches that come to your mind. I am of the impression that petitions are not going to result in any near term solution. Legislative changes are not going to happen with the current anti-immigrant sentiment running high in the GOP. What does that leave us with? I am going to say again ...venting on forums is not an option

vyruss - no venting. Just citing my example that any non-PERM category ( EB1A/EB1B/EB2-NIW) are being scrutinized so much except Eb1C. What about reaching out to USCIS Ombudsman to review/tighten EB1C criteria?

[qesehmk]

So at the risk of inviting some people's ire here is my perspective.

Sometimes there is a feeling that because I studied in a US university or because I worked for an MNC that I should get preference over somebody who stuck with one desi MNC for 10-15 years. Be honest guys. That's what this is. How do I know? Well because I went to a US school... got into American MNC became director in 4-5 years and blah blah blah blah. So obviously I had some sort of superiority complex. But then I quickly realized that all these things are only in our mind. Life and career is a long race. And there are different routes to it. Working for an Indian MNC may not be what some may like. But that is a valid one too. Whether we like it or not DOS and DHS have already accepted EB1C usage by Infy and likes.

Besides many many canadians and brits and australians are already enjoying EB1C for many many years. Just go and see the numbers. EB1C Indians are hardly 10-12K - if that.

My personal view is that it is far more productive to criticize this damn 7% limit that is so unfair to Indians an Chinese. It is almost racist and so unlike basic American values. DOS and DHS are denying Indians and Chinese equal opportunity just because they were born in those two countries. That's a far more reasonable argument. So Indeed if you feel strongly make a case that way. May be form a pressure group.

[gcq]

Well said Q.

When you are in the final days of your life, what will you want?
Will you hug that college degree in the walnut frame? Will you ask to be carried to the garage so you can sit in your car? Will you find comfort in rereading your financial statement? Of course not. What will matter then will be people. If relationships will matter most then, shouldn't they matter most now?
- Max Lucado

[vyruss]

The USCIS has to take a stand, plain and simple.

Well why would the USCIS take a stand? They are following the written law, aren't they? In the past they have addressed similar abuse when it was either brought to their attention or it was self-evident because of an unrealistic increase in the category usage. A few cited examples include: Labor Substitution and the Kazarian Memo. If a memo can create the desired effect, why not use something like that. So that begs the question, what prompted the Kazarian memo. Can some similar circumstances/stats be used to inveigle the USCIS into action? Barring legislative action that approach seems to be the only interim fix.

[qesehmk]

Good to hear from you gcq and a good quote too!

Well said Q.

[Spectator]

Well why would the USCIS take a stand? They are following the written law, aren't they? In the past they have addressed similar abuse when it was either brought to their attention or it was self-evident because of an unrealistic increase in the category usage. A few cited examples include: Labor Substitution and the Kazarian Memo. If a memo can create the desired effect, why not use something like that. So that begs the question, what prompted the Kazarian memo. Can some similar circumstances/stats be used to inveigle the USCIS into action? Barring legislative action that approach seems to be the only interim fix.

IMO, it's totally wrong to characterize the Kazarian case as an example of abuse.

It was purely a decision about the procedures that USCIS should use when adjudicating EB1A and EB1B cases.

Prior to Kazarian, USCIS took the position that each piece of evidence should in itself demonstrate the Extraordinary or Outstanding Ability required. If the candidate achieved the required 3 or 2 criteria required, USCIS would approve the case.

Kazarian argued that USCIS should accept any evidence in the required criteria, regardless of quality.

The judge ruled that USCIS, when counting evidence should accept any evidence in the required criteria. Having done so, they should then perform a second Final Merits Determination to decide whether, overall, the applicant had reached the required standard to have their EB1A or EB1B petition approved.

Post Kazarian, EB1A and EB1B applicants have been subject to a very subjective opinion from the adjudicating officer about the "totality" of the case. USCIS have never published guidance on what is required for the Final Merits Determination.

Arguably, the previous approach was much fairer. At least the applicants and their attorneys had some idea of what was required.

I don't see how that is abuse in any shape or form.

[qesehmk]

Sports - I didn't meant to criticize you. Perhaps you have seen examples I haven't and I may have seen you haven't. So those examples shape our perspectives!!

All I am saying is I haven't come across enough examples to call it an abuse. But it is possible that they do exist.

I completely disagree.

I have nothing against guys getting immediate GCs in the national interest through EB1A/B or whatever it is. I also have absolutely nothing against getting GCs through EB5. Those guys put their money where their mouth is.

However the "easy" GC that you can obtain through a strategically placed contact/bribe in a typical "desi" way is something that all of us dislike. This is because we left "that des" precisely to avoid such unpleasantness, and it is painful to see them being repeated in the US.

However I know your opinions and I know no one can change them. This is my last post really on this EB1 topic.

[vyruss]

IMO, it's totally wrong to characterize the Kazarian case as an example of abuse.

It was purely a decision about the procedures that USCIS should use when adjudicating EB1A and EB1B cases.

Prior to Kazarian, USCIS took the position that each piece of evidence should in itself demonstrate the Extraordinary or Outstanding Ability required. If the candidate achieved the required 3 or 2 criteria required, USCIS would approve the case.

I don't see how that is abuse in any shape or form.

Kazarian whether well intended or not was used as a judgement tool to deny some EB1 cases is what I am getting from this. My argument is maybe something similar can be accomplished with EB1C cases with a similar memo as well. Once again, we need to know what the motivation for Kazarian was and what initiated its drafting. There probably is an online resource I could look up.

Q: Change to the 7% limit you mention would require a legislative change. May be as humans we look at any low hanging fruits first. Like you said, the EB1C usage may not account for much; but once you start adding the dependents it does amount to a lot. To change or address the 7% country cap, we need to know what category of discrimination it falls under. Can we argue "disparate impact" during recruitment in general? I am not even sure if the anti-discrimination laws apply to immigrants as well. Obviously there were efforts in this direction in the past but without much success.