Lawyer Delays & Employer Exploitation

[NOV2007]

Hi,

My PD is current next month, I have got all documents in place, but my attorney says we can file sometime before last week of August. Is this right thing to do? Am little confused on what I should do? I tried to convince but they are adamant saying, it takes a while to prepare application. They say anytime you file your application next month it should be OK, and it is guranteed to get EAD. But, am I loosing chances of getting greened if at all any chances of getting it approved before COD retrogress for EB2I? As per sepculation here by Guru's it says retrogress is pretty much sure in Oct2013 VB.

[vizcard]

Hi,

My PD is current next month, I have got all documents in place, but my attorney says we can file sometime before last week of August. Is this right thing to do? Am little confused on what I should do? I tried to convince but they are adamant saying, it takes a while to prepare application. They say anytime you file your application next month it should be OK, and it is guranteed to get EAD. But, am I loosing chances of getting greened if at all any chances of getting it approved before COD retrogress for EB2I? As per sepculation here by Guru's it says retrogress is pretty much sure in Oct2013 VB.

My lawyer (fragomen) sat on my application even though I had everything ready to go Day 1 (early Jan). they didn't file till Jan 27. I guess they have the paralegals do all the leg work and finally the attorneys get involved in the last week to sign off on things in bulk. Anyway, because of that I didn't get my GC last year itself.... it pissed me off big time. If you have everything ready to go, tell ur lawyer that it needs to go in in the first week or you are going to do it yourself.

[wolverine82]

My lawyer (fragomen) sat on my application even though I had everything ready to go Day 1 (early Jan). they didn't file till Jan 27. I guess they have the paralegals do all the leg work and finally the attorneys get involved in the last week to sign off on things in bulk. Anyway, because of that I didn't get my GC last year itself.... it pissed me off big time. If you have everything ready to go, tell ur lawyer that it needs to go in in the first week or you are going to do it yourself.

vizcard i heard from my friend that fragomen basically has some different tiers for sending I-485 i.e. for a fee where they send it on the first week, the next one in 2nd week and next one in 3rd week and last or standard(which is free) and used for everyone is the last week.I don't think they say it but if asked they will give details abt it.

[seattlet]

My lawyer (fragomen) sat on my application even though I had everything ready to go Day 1 (early Jan). they didn't file till Jan 27. I guess they have the paralegals do all the leg work and finally the attorneys get involved in the last week to sign off on things in bulk. Anyway, because of that I didn't get my GC last year itself.... it pissed me off big time. If you have everything ready to go, tell ur lawyer that it needs to go in in the first week or you are going to do it yourself.

This is not the first time I have heard this about Fragomen nor will it be the last. The only way out is to find a way to avoid them. My employer had choices and I ran away from Fragomen as far as I can. (even though my H1 was filed thru them, when it came to PERM, i waited for few weeks to ensure the other firm gets engaged) Needless to say, I was very happy with the other folks. (Everyone makes mistakes, but Fragomen makes more mistakes , is more arrogant and treats you like crap while charging the most probably). They screwed up my PERM labor twice, recommend EB3 filing for all big consulting firms even if there is a chance to file EB2 and are generally antagonistic to immigration beneficiaries (but love the petitioner and their money)
Just my two cents.

[vizcard]

This is not the first time I have heard this about Fragomen nor will it be the last. The only way out is to find a way to avoid them. My employer had choices and I ran away from Fragomen as far as I can. (even though my H1 was filed thru them, when it came to PERM, i waited for few weeks to ensure the other firm gets engaged) Needless to say, I was very happy with the other folks. (Everyone makes mistakes, but Fragomen makes more mistakes , is more arrogant and treats you like crap while charging the most probably). They screwed up my PERM labor twice, recommend EB3 filing for all big consulting firms even if there is a chance to file EB2 and are generally antagonistic to immigration beneficiaries (but love the petitioner and their money)
Just my two cents.

Agree on that. I work for a big 4 consulting firm and they exclusively use fragomen. They started my perm in EB3 and then when I got promoted in a few months re-started itin EB2. Of course at the time it was logical to file in EB2 but there was no reason to file in EB3 in the first place. Lost some time because of that and missed the 2007 window as well.

Anyway water under the bridge at this point.

[qesehmk]

seattlet - what you say is true "WORD FOR WORD" in my own case. That's the very reason I started this forum. This is why I would always-always ask people to focus on their careers. Screw green card. It will come when it is supposed to. All Big American Corporations use green card as retention mechanism (a nice name for slavery) and your managers are actively working to keep you as their slave.

I will also advise on something I personally never did because I was too naive. That thing is - Know your value, know your power and leverage it to your benefit. Howsoever kind your manager may seem - there is a very good chance - he is advancing his own career at the expense of yours and using your green card weakness against you.

This is not the first time I have heard this about Fragomen nor will it be the last. The only way out is to find a way to avoid them. My employer had choices and I ran away from Fragomen as far as I can. (even though my H1 was filed thru them, when it came to PERM, i waited for few weeks to ensure the other firm gets engaged) Needless to say, I was very happy with the other folks. (Everyone makes mistakes, but Fragomen makes more mistakes , is more arrogant and treats you like crap while charging the most probably). They screwed up my PERM labor twice, recommend EB3 filing for all big consulting firms even if there is a chance to file EB2 and are generally antagonistic to immigration beneficiaries (but love the petitioner and their money)
Just my two cents.

[desitiger]

seattlet - what you say is true "WORD FOR WORD" in my own case. That's the very reason I started this forum. This is why I would always-always ask people to focus on their careers. Screw green card. It will come when it is supposed to. All Big American Corporations use green card as retention mechanism (a nice name for slavery) and your managers are actively working to keep you as their slave.

I will also advise on something I personally never did because I was too naive. That thing is - Know your value, know your power and leverage it to your benefit. Howsoever kind your manager may seem - there is a very good chance - he is advancing his own career at the expense of yours and using your green card weakness against you.

Not everything in life is black & white.

[qesehmk]

So true. Agree.

Not everything in life is black & white.

[desitiger]

Nice sob story and if you were expecting me to shed a tear or two, sorry I did not. Let me be the first to welcome you to the world of capitalism. Neither did me or nor did your Manager put a gun to your head to stay in US or file for a GC. It was your choice and you filed for it so live with the consequences. I can poke so many holes in your story and tell you where you could have left but that is not the point. Everyone makes mistakes and learns from it, as you said that you have learned too so use that knowledge .

Let me apologize to you also after I have given you the harsh treatment but you asked for it. I don't like it when people come to any forum and throw sob stories. We all know that the system is not perfect but no one put a gun to our head to enter the system. Once you are in the GC race either you can give up or keep chugging along. Complaining or nagging about the system is only going to make you bitter and unbearable for people around you. If you really want to change, either change yourself or go and change the system (not easy), many have failed but if you want to try go for it.

In case of a GC, it mostly is. Most companies have used the GC as a tactic to retain Indian and Chinese employees in particular. Why are there so many tech consultancies from India? Simple reason - they benefit too much by having people working for peanuts for several years. Many big companies (mine included) also do this willfully. I had talked to my manager in 2007 about filing my GC and after much dilly dallying, they got to it only late 2008. I have personally experienced how tremendously ignorant I was of the whole process. I didn't even know what PD meant. If I did, I am sure I could be at least an year early and could even get myself in July 2007. Although I was fortunately put in EB2, my company willingly put some of my colleagues in EB3 too. My lawyer was largely non responsive. And once I got my EAD and left, my manager suddenly offered me about a 20K raise and lots of pleading not to leave...it was too late by that time.

In 2010, our company had a position for me overseas. My wife could also work there. However my manager told me I would surrender my GC if I did it. What a wrong advice that was! My labor was clear and it was just so easy to work overseas and get my case converted to CP. I didn't even know my PD was locked at that point. I feared if I left and had to restart, I was looking at 5+ years from *that* point. Wrong, wrong, wrong! I can only lament at the wasted opportunity.

This is not a unique story. It's very common. Q's blog has educated me tremendously. Although I have missed out, I am sure there are so many others who can benefit from this knowledge. Once you are armed with knowledge of your rights and the possibilities, you are in a great position to bargain...which is something I never did.

[NOV2007]

What Q and Sportfan says is completely true. Some people might not have undergone the pain, so they don't understand how bad that pain is. Its quite obvious and normal human tendency that, when they know someone is under their grace, they start taking advantage of it. Its very rare to see a person who don't take advantage of the situation. Its nothing one can do as we have beared all the pain, and now its time to see some better life so don't want to let it go and bear this pain for few more months. Good luck to all people who are PD next month. And I wish all people with 2008Apr and beyond too get their PD current soon.

[Spectator]

Nice sob story <snip>

destiger,

It wasn't a sob story.

To precis sportsfan, I think he was saying that Knowledge is Power as far as understanding the non-immigrant and immigrant processes goes. The examples only illustrated where a lack of knowledge may have led to an incorrect decision (at least in hindsight).

He was using the above to compliment Q's blog for increasing people's knowledge and therefore empowering them.

In essence, I think that is a correct viewpoint.

You may not agree.

[bvsamrat]

It is not a sob story and true fact due to this GC Process. This process is highly tilted in favors of employers totally, who use delay tactics as much as possible and attorneys who are loyal to employers only. This is true in IT/non-IT fields.
Easy to say that you should have gone back- but it is like drinking hot ghee- you can not swallow or spit.
All we enter with in-correct information- That's why we are here and facing lottery and uncertain fluid like situation. Where in any other country you can stay/work for 10 years and make the country as home and not sure if you have status and have to leave if you are out of status. Where you can go back? . Does the go back chance exist for all people? Some people may not have home at all in their home country??

Nice sob story

[qesehmk]

..
Let me welcome you to a world governed by laws, individual dignity and individual rights. Yes, yes, even the ones on the H1B visa.
..

Totally agree.

On a positive note I will refer all to something GCQ said just a couple of weeks back. That thing made my day and perhaps will yours too.
He said (and the phrasing is mine)

US enforces its laws over people within its boundaries regardless of their immigration status. As such (and US is unique in that) US also allows individuals within its boundaries the legal rights same as its own citizens.

So even if your are an H1B you can't be exploited or lied to or whatever and have full rights to sue your employer for anything that you think was unlawful.

p.s. - Of course there are exceptions here e.g. Diplomats. And secondly criminals who lose some of their civil liberties when convicted. Even illegal aliens have legal rights until they are convicted.

[erikbond101]

Nice sob story and if you were expecting me to shed a tear or two, sorry I did not. Let me be the first to welcome you to the world of capitalism. Neither did me or nor did your Manager put a gun to your head to stay in US or file for a GC. It was your choice and you filed for it so live with the consequences. I can poke so many holes in your story and tell you where you could have left but that is not the point. Everyone makes mistakes and learns from it, as you said that you have learned too so use that knowledge .
Cool it man.....You use Knowledge only after gaining it not before...

Let me apologize to you also after I have given you the harsh treatment but you asked for it. I don't like it when people come to any forum and throw sob stories. We all know that the system is not perfect but no one put a gun to our head to enter the system.
There are so many things that you do unwillingly where no puts gun to your head.... eg when wife says to clean the dishes and put it in dishwasher....she never draws the gun...
Once you are in the GC race either you can give up or keep chugging along. Complaining or nagging about the system is only going to make you bitter and unbearable for people around you. If you really want to change, either change yourself or go and change the system (not easy), many have failed but if you want to try go for it.

This is a civil forum...keep it that way...if you want to vent your own frustration ...go to trackitt

[desitiger]

And you understand that capitalism = negotiation? And that capitalism requires full knowledge? And that exploitation is still illegal?

Let me welcome you to a world governed by laws, individual dignity and individual rights. Yes, yes, even the ones on the H1B visa.

You really thought I was complaining? I was complimenting Q and informing others how his forum is useful. Even morons like you can learn something useful here.

Tell me where in your story a law was broken. I see you were lied to but I don't see a law being broken. Just to make it clear in theory all participants of capitalism have equal knowledge and there is not arbitrage but reality is far from it.

[desitiger]

This is a civil forum...keep it that way...if you want to vent your own frustration ...go to trackitt

First let me say I am not venting out. Even if you don't believe you always have a choice and we chose a path which may seem to be easier . As far as your example of wife asking to clean the dishes does not hold ground here. Comparing apples and oranges.

[qesehmk]

sport - i am totally with you because I have experienced all these things myself. First hand.

Earlier I meant to say that if somebody does these things to H1B then an H1B has all the legal protections that an American worker has!!

p.s. - On another note - may be there are others who just haven't experienced these things yet and find it very hard to believe this. So I would let it rest here. No point in convincing others.

I agree that even on the H1B, people have it incredibly easy in the US. They can buy anything including houses, get Drivers license (even H4 spouses can get them with some pain) and port the H1B to another compliant employer with relative ease.

What I meant was that without full knowledge, my employer either knowingly or unknowingly made things worse for me. I waited far too long to file. Someone had told me back in the end that it took anywhere from 6 months to 5 years to get the GC. That 6 month was an overly optimistic timeline for an EB1 petition. I had no idea I didn't qualify for it, and I waited too long before putting pressure on my employer. I also know that some informed people in my company got substituted labors right before it was disallowed. I didn't like that practice, but who's to honestly say that I wouldn't have done it if it didn't benefit me? I could also have forced EB3 right when I joined (2005) and gradually ported to EB2. I already had a Masters. I could also have taken the position in 2010 and kept my GC alive and very well. Most likely with CP, I would have probably even been greened last year itself despite the atrocious PD I got (MS in 2002, PD in 2008, worked full time right after my MS as a software architect in positions that easily qualified for EB2).

I have made mistakes after mistakes. And that means I have added at least 4 years of an additional wait to my GC. My employer didn't do anything illegal and I have good words to say for them because I enjoyed my work a lot, got flexibility, excellent benefits and lasting friendships. However they didn't willingly sought out my own good, they never explained any part of the process to me, and where possible, they tried to make things harder for me. That's how the immigration works here - in favor of employers and employers only. Had I know nuances of this process, I would probably be looking at my citizenship in 1-2 years. That's the difference.

That's why we need this forum and we need every single individual who is even thinking about filing to read everything and get armed with knowledge. Once you know the kind of things you can do while you wait for that GC to arrive, you can make far better decisions.

[qesehmk]

Sport - I hear you.

What the heck - here is my story too:

2003 Feb - CIO who hired me approves my green card.
2003 Mar - HR shoots down saying 1 year needs to be completed
2004 Feb - HR says they will start processing but delays
2004 Jun - Job switch internally and new manager approves GC
2005 Mar - After - many many internal hurdles including an anti immigrant "facilitator" appointed by my manager to slow down GC - finally traditional labor is filed just a few days before old labor is going to go out of business. This was done to ensure that my labor will be delayed under old system.
2006 Sep - After old labor is kept pending forever and new PERMs were getting approved in days ... I requested PERM conversion.
2007 Mar - After many many delays finally PERM filed.
2007 Mar - Perm approved but the old labor is considered abandoned because of an "error" which I am quite sure was a planned error to keep me as long as they could. As a result I lose another 2 years on top of 2 years of earlier delays.
2011 Aug - GC approved.

Oh and I didn't even mentioned that my company also tried to file me in EB3 knowing that EB3 was taking forever. The lawyer shot it down saying the candidate has two masters including an MBA from US- so can't put it in EB3.

I agree.

I forgot to mention - my employer literally applied at the last possible minute. My H1B 6 year limit was going to run out in September 2009 (by that time, I would have worked 7 years full time already, 1 on OPT and 6 on H1B), and they barely got the application in October 2008 so as to allow me the chance to get my PERM cleared at least. Unless they did it, I had to leave the country, so they had no choice really. I didn't realize this until several years later, and when I did, it was kind of a last straw for me. This clearly showed to me that they acted purely in their own self interest and I had no more desire to stick. Thanks to CO, at least we got to take our EADs and I took the road out this year.

[Eb2_Dec07]

I agree.

I forgot to mention - my employer literally applied at the last possible minute. My H1B 6 year limit was going to run out in September 2009 (by that time, I would have worked 7 years full time already, 1 on OPT and 6 on H1B), and they barely got the application in October 2008 so as to allow me the chance to get my PERM cleared at least. Unless they did it, I had to leave the country, so they had no choice really. I didn't realize this until several years later, and when I did, it was kind of a last straw for me. This clearly showed to me that they acted purely in their own self interest and I had no more desire to stick. Thanks to CO, at least we got to take our EADs and I took the road out this year.

I agree with sportsfan and I have also gone through these experiences at various levels and quite frankly I should definitely partly blame myself for lack of information or knowledge . While corporations may not willingly perpetrate negligence , their actions and procedures do not always necessarily help the immigrant employees specially on the GC front . At the same time no rules are broken . Most importantly there is very little guidance on policy or procedures in place in corporations on how to handle immigration from a social perspective besides the economics, and with it being a minority for them in the grand scale of things . With big 4 companies , I think it is totally different ball game altogether , and one has to really undergo the pain to understand .

Coming to the phrases " someone putting the gun to someone's head " , this country is a great nation of laws and without going to extremes , situations/ policies can sometimes manipulate intentions and outcomes . Putting a gun to head to make a decision is much easier since it will illicit an Yes or No response right away. But walking through a haze of laws and policies is like slow death . Unfortunately , there is no otherway than being informed . Knowledge is power .

Thanks to Q for the forum and contributors like Sportsfan , Spec, Viz, Indiani n all others and Destig ( whether I agree with you or not , your perspective is not minimized but in this particular case , I feel it is a little outside the context) .

[desitiger]

Lets agree to disagree.

Cheers,
Mr. Dense

[PD2008AUG25]

When my PA was current last year, my company's lawyer didn't send my i-797 with I-485. It resulted in RFE related to status continuity and subsequent delay and retrogression. I only later realized it was ploy from my employer as many people got RFEs for trivial reasons.