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Thread: Discussion of Bills that remove the Per Country Limits - H.R.3012, H,R. 213

  1. #2401
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    To rupen86

    Interestingly the increase from 7 to 15 percent was also the amendment offered by Sen Grassley at the time of his original hold last December and so that might emerge as the consensus figure

  2. #2402
    Rupen / GS

    In addition to ideological differences, don't forget that neither wants to grant another an immigration victory. So any bill that has exclusive mark of either party will fail. A bill that is seen as bipartisan is more likely to go through.

    Quote Originally Posted by rupen86 View Post
    I had gone through this earlier. But the main problem as Oh Law firm pointed out is the ideological difference between democrats and republicans. The democrats seem to be giving more importance to diversity than talent. Both 3012 and STEM's goal are to replace diversity with talent. If democrats have to give in to that, they would have to get something in return. I feel that even in CIR, it would be difficult to include 3012. Increasing the quota limit from 7% to 15% would be more likely. That's what is reflected in earlier bills introduced by democrats. For our purpose, if recapture and not counting dependents are included, that would serve the purpose of removing backlogs.
    Quote Originally Posted by gs1968 View Post
    To rupen86

    Interestingly the increase from 7 to 15 percent was also the amendment offered by Sen Grassley at the time of his original hold last December and so that might emerge as the consensus figure
    I no longer provide calculations/predictions ever since whereismyGC.com was created.
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  3. #2403
    From Oh Law firm. While this lawyer's opinion on immigration does not matter, it is worth noting that he is not mentioning including country quota removal in his proposals which reiterates the point that these lawyers associated with ALIA have changed their tone which earlier supported HR 3012.

    11/17/2012: Some Thoughts of Realistic and Workable Immigration Reforms for the Leaders of Congress and the President

    This reporter discussed earlier that any realistic and workable immigration reforms must be derived from balance of power between the two parties within the framework of national interest and fundamental principles that have formed a foundation for immigration system in this nation. Otherwise, the nation will repeat failure of comprehensive immigration reform and suffer from political games and rhetoric for interest of political parties rather than the the interest of the nation and people. The immigration reform should start from the basic concept of "overhaul" of the current immigration system within the foregoing guiding principles and goals. The leaders do not have to go too far to collect such thoughts because over the years, innumerable ideas and proposals have been presented and debated without the foregoing guiding principles and purposes. Current leaders may salvage some of those thoughts and proposals to work out the nation's new immigration system.
    This reporter wants to review some of the thoughts which the political leaders may want to think about to achieve the balance of power between the two parties and keeping fundamental principles and foundation which our forefathers have laid out for overall framework of the nation's immigration system.
    Legalization of undocumented immigrants: It appears that the leaders, particularly after the November 2012 election, appear to be moving towards a consensus that the legalization should be seriously considered one way or another. The question remains "in what form and what direction." There have been floating around the statistics of undocumented immigrants in this country. Conservative figure is 11 million and liberal statistics is 20 million. These numbers will drastically redraw political landscape within next decade - pro-Democrat, so-to-speak. No reasonable person will assume that the Republican leaders and constituents will agree, under any circumstances, to immediate grant of permanent resident statuses to these undocumented immigrants. To be realistic, there have been discussions among both Republicans and Democrats an option of legalization of these immigrants with an opportunity to seek permanent resident status under the nation's immigration system, to wit, they will have to find their way under the family or employment-based or other immigration routes just like any other new immigrants. Their applications for the permanent resident statuses should also be determined by the rule of first-in and first-out in the immigration lines, the rule which is called "priority date" in the current immigration law. This option will also assure fairness to the "legal" immigrants who have been waiting in the long lines years and years. This option will affect the Republican's power to a minimum from the point of number of eligible voters for the next decade, and other than extremely ultra conservative right wing section which is minority in the current political landscape, most of the mildly right and middle of the road Republicans are likely to agree to.
    The foregoing legalization principle will not work unless the leaders work out workable border protection because it will repeat the same history down the road.
    Family-based immigration system may have to be restructured under the basic guidelines and goals for realistic and workable option. Family unification has been founding principle for this nation of immigrants, but the current family-based immigration system is somewhat archaic considering the changes in the concept of "family" over the decades. There are plenty of proposals from both sides of the aisle for this reform in the Congress, and the current leaders and major players of the immigration reform should work out reform in this part of the immigration system towards maintaining balance of powers between the two parties.
    Employment-based immigration system must be completely overhauled. The world has changed during past century through the industrialization revolution and the global age. Current system has turned literally archaic to the level of "smelly." Let's talk about the EB-1 immigrants. We are living in a global world and hi-tech and cyber space. It is indeed ridiculous that the nation imposes a restriction to this level of immigrants by quota numbers. Why? We do not want Einstein any more? We do not want Olympic gold medalists any more? This nation desperately needs this level of immigrants. In fact, this nation must work out a device to indiuce and invite this level of immigrants to this country to enrich every sector of this nation across the board for the sake not only for a decade but decades and centuries. This is the most ridiculous part in the current employment-based immigration system. It does not end with the extraordinary worker EB-1A provision. The same goes with Outstanding Researcher & Teachers EB-1B as well. What about EB-1C multi-national corporate executive or manager immigration? We are living in a global economy. Restriction of these immigrants is another smelly part of the current immigration system. Just take out the whole EB-1 immigration from the quota system. The country of immigrants should always need in-flow of such top notch immigrants to enrich this nation!
    EB-5 immigrant investors. This is another ridiculous provision in the law when the nation is eager and desperate to attract foreign investment and talented entrepreneurs to keep the nation's edge in economic competition with other nations. Why impose quota? Quota must be removed for these immigrants. Currently, the U.S. government, including USCIS, has been using incredible amount of resources and funds for promotion of these immigrants. How contradictory and archaic the current law is. EB-5 immigration has to be changed to a permanent program and without quota.
    STEM EB-2 immigration: This is one of the areas which is strongly supported by both parties. The businesses of the nation and higher learning institutions are desperate for change in this part of immigration law. Again, immigration quota should be removed either to attract or retain these critical foreign talents.
    Non-STEM EB-2: This reporter recalls a prediction by certain political leaders and immigration lawyers about 15 years ago that the country's employment-based immigration system will move toward direction focusing on the EB-2 considering changing world and economy. The allocation of immigration quota for these immigrants should be focused in the new overhauled immigration system.
    Changes in the criteria of quota system: One of the flaws in the current employment-based immigration system is count of quota numbers including spouses and children of the primary foreign workers. It is unrealistic any talented foreign workers will consider immigrating to this country without their spouses and children. When the law considers the number of foreign workers the country wants to accept or even invite, the law should just count the foreign workers in determination of quota, and the spouses and children should be immigrated literally as follow-to-join or accompanying family members.
    The foregoing changes will keep the balance of power between the Republicans and the Democrats, assuming that the businesses and foreign workers are pro-Republican and legalized immigrants are pro-union and pro-Democrat. However, the labor union should also be realistic for their power base. The legalization proposal will add power to the unions, and the unions should accept pro-Republican employment-based immigration reform as well for them to be realistic. The union power will not be lost except that some unions in certain specific sectors may be affected. However, in the bargain, compromise, and negotiation processes, one should expect that there are always losers and winners. The point is that such sector interest should not override the interest of the nation and the people. We all should remember that without give-and-take, the nation will never see a reform in such a critical issue as immigration reform. The President should lead and draft the Comprehensive Immigration Reform bill, hopefully with due consideration given to the foregoing goal of balance of power, as soon as possible.

  4. #2404
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    Hi Guru's,
    Is it true? Or this site showing wrong info ???

    http://immigrationlegalblog.com/2012...have-a-chance/

  5. #2405
    Quote Originally Posted by anish5 View Post
    Hi Guru's,
    Is it true? Or this site showing wrong info ???

    http://immigrationlegalblog.com/2012...have-a-chance/
    The article is confusing between HR3012 and STEM. The latter is scheduled to be taken up in House on Friday. HR3012 is in Senate.
    Last edited by kkruna; 11-27-2012 at 01:58 PM.

  6. #2406
    ACHIEVE act is introduced.

    http://www.politico.com/news/stories...274.html?hp=l5

    It does not address anything on legal immigration. Under this process 'DREAM' kids will get W3 (green card) faster than some of the EB categories. It also negates the GOP statement that those people will be put at the end of the line.

  7. #2407
    Not sure what all Republicans hope to achieve in lame duck session. They could just be setting stage for dialogue in Senate in the new Congress next year.

  8. #2408
    Quote Originally Posted by rupen86 View Post
    ACHIEVE act is introduced.

    http://www.politico.com/news/stories...274.html?hp=l5

    It does not address anything on legal immigration. Under this process 'DREAM' kids will get W3 (green card) faster than some of the EB categories. It also negates the GOP statement that those people will be put at the end of the line.
    The W-3 is not a green card, not even close. It must be renewed every 4 years and you DO NOT have access to public welfare benefits. That is a very important difference.

    This may be the closest idea to a DREAM act that could get by the house.

  9. #2409
    Quote Originally Posted by justvisiting View Post
    The W-3 is not a green card, not even close. It must be renewed every 4 years and you DO NOT have access to public welfare benefits. That is a very important difference.

    This may be the closest idea to a DREAM act that could get by the house.
    Let's say it is EAD. But even in that case, that would be better than current EB2, EB3 I/C

  10. #2410
    If there was any hope left for stand alone bill, this one removes that hope.

    http://thehill.com/blogs/hillicon-va...inst-stem-bill

  11. #2411
    The Administration has said that they will also address legal immigration. Trouble is, CIR is likely to be a free-for-all-long-drawn-out-political-oneupmanship. Though the deadline is 2014 before elections.

  12. #2412
    I think white house is under fire from media after the comments....................

    http://www.businessinsider.com/obama...valley-2012-11

    Lets wait and see for few more days, before giving up.

  13. #2413
    Quote Originally Posted by redsox2009 View Post
    I think white house is under fire from media after the comments....................

    http://www.businessinsider.com/obama...valley-2012-11

    Lets wait and see for few more days, before giving up.
    Democrats will never agree for removing the diversity program because those people who come on that program are mostly democrats. So, in other words, they are importing 50,000 democrats every year and they will file for their relatives.

    Democrats laid out plan for CIR which did not include anything on EB immigration.

    http://latino.foxnews.com/latino/new...ration-reform/

    We can just hope that there would be something on EB immigration in CIR like recapturing and not counting dependents.

  14. #2414
    I know this is far-fetched, but can't Republicans use STEM visa bill as bargaining chip for any fiscal cliff agreement? When everyone says STEM bill will go nowhere, why Lamar is even bothering?
    PD: 08/25/2008 EB2I

  15. #2415
    I think the political angle always exist and it really is hard on EB especially IC folks.

    However, immigration reforms overall is a bigger strategic priority and a necessity for US. Immigration is not just politics - it is economics. I studied under somebody who worked closely with greenspan (or so he said ). This guy taught us that targeted GDP growth is usually 3% under normal growth curves. Of that 1% comes from productivity and 2% from population growth. The native population growth usually is 0.5%. So essentially the remaining 1.5% needs to come from immigration. If you look at US, that goal is NOT being fulfilled. Luckily the technology fuelled more than 1% of economy productivity between 1990 and today. However given where we are - post real estate bubble popping - immigration once again becomes critical.

    So these facts tell you why CIR i.e. comprehensive immigration is not all politics.

    My 2 cents ... as always!

    Quote Originally Posted by rupen86 View Post
    Democrats will never agree for removing the diversity program because those people who come on that program are mostly democrats. So, in other words, they are importing 50,000 democrats every year and they will file for their relatives.

    Democrats laid out plan for CIR which did not include anything on EB immigration.

    http://latino.foxnews.com/latino/new...ration-reform/

    We can just hope that there would be something on EB immigration in CIR like recapturing and not counting dependents.
    I no longer provide calculations/predictions ever since whereismyGC.com was created.
    I do run this site only as an administrator. Our goal is to improve clarity of GC process to help people plan their lives better.
    Use the info at your risk. None of this is legal advice.

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  16. #2416
    Quote Originally Posted by PD2008AUG25 View Post
    I know this is far-fetched, but can't Republicans use STEM visa bill as bargaining chip for any fiscal cliff agreement? When everyone says STEM bill will go nowhere, why Lamar is even bothering?
    Not in a lifetime. They are not that desperate. If they were this serious, they would not have put this bill knowing that it can not pass.

  17. #2417
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    Another article on the futility of the STEM Bill-

    http://www.voxxi.com/hispanic-caucus...ration-reform/

    Rep.Robert Goodlatte of VA who takes over as House Judiciary Committee chairman next year is a strong opponent of Diversity Visas and we have probably not heard the last of this.

  18. #2418
    Quote Originally Posted by gs1968 View Post
    Another article on the futility of the STEM Bill-

    http://www.voxxi.com/hispanic-caucus...ration-reform/

    Rep.Robert Goodlatte of VA who takes over as House Judiciary Committee chairman next year is a strong opponent of Diversity Visas and we have probably not heard the last of this.
    Principles laid out in CHC also does not include anything on EB immigration except STEM. This is worrisome.

  19. #2419
    Quote Originally Posted by rupen86 View Post
    Principles laid out in CHC also does not include anything on EB immigration except STEM. This is worrisome.
    Of course not. That's highly skilled immigration and the CHC's electorate/constituents broadly speaking are not.

  20. #2420
    STEM BILL is in the house and it is being debated........Dem's are opposing in the current form and asking for amendments and Rep's are supporting...............

  21. #2421
    STEM Bill passed in house.

  22. #2422
    redsox Thank you. What does this mean. What are the next steps?
    Quote Originally Posted by redsox2009 View Post
    STEM Bill passed in house.
    I no longer provide calculations/predictions ever since whereismyGC.com was created.
    I do run this site only as an administrator. Our goal is to improve clarity of GC process to help people plan their lives better.
    Use the info at your risk. None of this is legal advice.

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  23. #2423
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    STEM passed in House , final vote 262 to 150.

    http://blogs.edweek.org/edweek/curri...es_stem_e.html
    Last edited by gkjppp; 11-30-2012 at 12:07 PM.
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  24. #2424
    Next Steps SenateWH.............Only one Senator has offically voiced againist to the bill. Chances of passing is slim.


    Few weeks ago, Dem Senator Schumer gave his blessings to this bill. Not sure if that is offical or unoffical. Sen. Schumer is one of the brains behind the CIR or any immigration bill. If Sen. Schumer gives nod to this bill, chances will improve drastically.


    Tech companies are rallying behind the bill, I have confidence this bill can pass.

  25. #2425
    Thanks redsox.
    Those interested in understanding the process please see. http://www.familiesusa.org/resources...ow-a-bill.html

    Basically - a bill can be introduced in any house but has to pass both houses and then onto president. Even if president vetoes - the bill can be passed if both houses veto president's veto by 2/3rd majority.

    As per this bill - it pass republican majority senate. So no surprise. Basically republicans are pumping up the ante with Obama administration that yesterday only opposed this bill saying piecemeal legislation is not acceptable.

    p.s. - A little more about this bill. Basically this bill seeks to remove diversity program and use those visas towards foreign STEM graduates of US degrees. This bill will benefit EB2 as well as EB3 across all countries. There are really no losers except of course diversity program.

    Quote Originally Posted by redsox2009 View Post
    Next Steps SenateWH.............Only one Senator has offically voiced againist to the bill. Chances of passing is slim.


    Few weeks ago, Dem Senator Schumer gave his blessings to this bill. Not sure if that is offical or unoffical. Sen. Schumer is one of the brains behind the CIR or any immigration bill. If Sen. Schumer gives nod to this bill, chances will improve drastically.


    Tech companies are rallying behind the bill, I have confidence this bill can pass.
    Last edited by qesehmk; 11-30-2012 at 12:17 PM.
    I no longer provide calculations/predictions ever since whereismyGC.com was created.
    I do run this site only as an administrator. Our goal is to improve clarity of GC process to help people plan their lives better.
    Use the info at your risk. None of this is legal advice.

    Forum Glossary | Forum Rules and Guidelines | If your published post disappeared, check - Lies and Misinformation thread


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