Discussion of Bills that remove the Per Country Limits - H.R.3012, H,R. 213

[gcseeker]

The Messiah was fixated on his legacy of being remembered as the one delivering universal health care .He will for sure get that too in a couple of months when the supreme court overturns the entire thing.Also the dem base will not let anything pass without provisions for illegals who are an huge votebank .

(P.S I have nothing against Obama and frankly speaking both parties are paid and financed by the big money and there is very little difference between both of them in reality )

Another thing I keep wondering is why did Democrats not pass any immigration reform when they had house majority, 60 seats in Senate and a Democrat president.

[July2007PD]

I was the core member of this until last month and moved onto a different company. We got both dems and rep both to support on the bill it is just a matter of time to pass this bill. If you look at the bill carefully the 15% limit in fb is made to make dems happy. Rep are already in favor ... This is the last chance and the only bill which has high probability of passing and should happen pretty soon. All other bills are just for the name sake ... Just thought I would share some titbits

[qesehmk]

Election Season + Bad Economy + Anti Immigration Sentiment Rising = Zero Chance of Immigration Reform

However if people stop making noise about their plight it pushes their issues even back further in the long list of things to do in front of the government.

I agree that bill won't go anywhere. Democrat led Senate would probably try to modify the bill by adding DREAM acts provisions, which would be not palatable to House and Senate Republicans. So in summary it is not going anywhere....at the best House will pass it and then nothing will happen.

Senate rules seems so screwy to me...need 60 votes to avoid a filibuster.

Another thing I keep wondering is why did Democrats not pass any immigration reform when they had house majority, 60 seats in Senate and a Democrat president.

I cuncur but this one person gets on to me. Kindly unsubscribe my access rights. Thanks!

Stuff happens. Forget it. You are welcome to put forth divergent views!

[Pedro Gonzales]

I was the core member of this until last month and moved onto a different company. We got both dems and rep both to support on the bill it is just a matter of time to pass this bill. If you look at the bill carefully the 15% limit in fb is made to make dems happy. Rep are already in favor ... This is the last chance and the only bill which has high probability of passing and should happen pretty soon. All other bills are just for the name sake ... Just thought I would share some titbits

J07PD, tell us more. Is there democratic support in the senate too? What's your view on timing?

[Pedro Gonzales]

To shed some light on people's motivations on this forum (with the exception of dec2010ped who appears confused at best, and either masochistic or dishonest about his status at worst), here is a summary of my analysis on what this would do to the PDs if this bill becomes law. My analysis itself is available on Qs forum.

As of end of FY 2012 (Sep 2012),
EB1 remains current.
EB2 I & C would have moved to Sep 2009. EB2 ROW would retrogress to early 2011.
EB3 I would move to Sep 2004. EB3 CM&P would meet EB3 ROW at Dec 2005, with the possibility of potential retrogression by a few months.

The winners (& big winners at that, as against claims by horus and others that the benefit will be insignificant) are EB2 I & C, and EB3 I, all of who's dates move by over 2 years. EB3 C will be lesser winners (1 years movement). The clear losers are EB2 ROW (that retrogress 2 years), and to a lesser extent EB3 MP ROW (that don't move or retrogress by a few months).

I think everybody supporting this bill (regardless of which side of the immigration debate we may stand, anti- or pro-immigration) realizes that this doesn't improve immigration on an absolute basis, and just improves relative position of some nations relative to others. However we argue that this is a) fair, b) in the interests of US businesses, and c) far more likely to pass than any bill that increases absolute immigration levels in the current environment.

a) That removing country limits (so that people with the same qualifications receive their green cards based on PDs) is fair should be obvious to any rational person, just as arguments against some of history's greatest evils like slavery, the holocaust, and Jim Crow laws (civil rights) ought to have been obvious in centuries past. Yet just as millions of people could not be convinced of the injustice inherent to those programs, there is nothing we can say to convince the disbelievers against it.
b) US Industry (check out the testimonies in front of congress from this summer by the CEO of NASDAQ and SVP of Microsoft) believes it is losing out on workers they need (from India and China) that are returning to their home countries because of the long wait times. The fact is, the skills they are looking for today are only filled in large numbers by candidates from India and China. Turkey, Brazil, Russia, South Africa and the other 183 countries out there just don't provide sufficient STEM graduates today. They may in the future, but that doesn't solve the job openings today. Don't take my word for it, just read the transcripts of the senate hearings. They would prefer reform that would help everyone's wait times, but if this is all they can get, they'll take it.
c) Congressman Chaffetz and the others are being intellectually honest with this bill. They do not claim to be pro immigration. They (and their constituents) will support a bill that does not ease immigration limits. Given that this bill does not increase the number of immigrants, it will garner Republican support, if it garners their attention, at all. Since Congressman Lamar Smith has lent his support, I believe it will clear the House. Whether it clears the Senate is another issue, but it is as likely to clear the Senate as any immigration bill is in this session. President Obama is an intellectual and will certainly understand issues 'a' and 'b' above, and he will sign the bill into law if it is presented to him. And as to lobbying support, the immigrant communities with the most power (money, numbers and organization) are the Chinese, followed by the Indians, both groups benefited by the bill. You can be sure that we'll be putting all our effort to make this succeed.

I understand people who are disadvantaged by this bill not wanting to support it. Everyone has a right to act in their self interest. However, don't muddle the argument with claims that it is unfair, anti-US business or unlikely to get passed. For those that are worried that this is a divide and rule mechanism that removes support from immigration reform on the whole, I invite you to support the bill so that there are no issues to divide us any more. Remove our pet peeves, level the playing field for all nations, and we'll combine our resources to fight the remaining battles (recapture visa numbers, disregard dependents from EB quota, increase the annual limits, etc). Those who are familiar with Indian history may remember that Ambedkar (a leader of the lowest castes) was quite against independence because he felt his people would fare worse in an independent India. It wasn't until the independence movement embraced equality for the lowest castes of Indian society that his people joined the freedom struggle in numbers. This is quite similar to that. Give us what you have, and we won't be divided any more.

Finally, to address the diversity issue, Indians from Meghalaya, Bihar, Jammu, Maharashtra and Kerala are about as similar as Europeans from Bulgaria, Finland, England, Germany and Italy. Their languages, foods and cultures are different. The fact that we've united under one nation doesn't make us less diverse than them. I can't speak for the Chinese, but I believe they're not all one people either. In any case, 140K of legal employment based immigration accounts for less than 20% of all immigration and less than 0.05% of the U.S population. Increasing our visa numbers from 7% to 70% of 140K will not move the needle.

I don't expect to have won any dissenters over to my side of the argument, but if I have, say 'aye'.

The above was my response to this issue on the Trackitt forum. I posted it here because I think we all need to address the arguments against the bill wherever we come across it.

[manubhai]

Pedro - You are the man. Couldn't have said it better. Never in my life did I think it will take so much to explain the worthiness of the phrase "First Come First Served".

Folks... if explanations like these on a forum full of Chinese and Indian folks cannot get you to push for this bill, I'm not sure what can.

To those who call this a waste of time: Certainly not. Pushing for a bill isn't a failed cause if the bill doesn't pass. We now have the white house petition system noticing us. Will it help? May be not. But having a few thousand people show their concern, not by staging a protest in front of the capitol on a cold winter night, but by pressing a button, isn't something we should be thinking too much about.

Dont get so used to the "Too bad we have to wait for 5 years" syndrome that you don't realize that there's a slight, but real, possibility out there of things changing. Get out of your self-centered rut of coming to this forum to "READ" for support. Instead, "DO" the little, however little it may be.

MY CALL INCLUDES THE MOST ACTIVE MEMBERS OF THIS FORUM, WHO ARE LIKELY TO BECOME CURRENT SOON, AND ARE NOT GOING TO BE DIRECTLY AFFECTED BY THIS BILL.

As Pedro said best...
""
... we argue that this is a) fair, b) in the interests of US businesses, and c) far more likely to pass than any bill that increases absolute immigration levels in the current environment.
""

Note that beneficiaries from EVERY COUNTRY other than IC will oppose this. It is even more important for you to support it. The petition must cross 150 votes for it to be visible to public at large.

************************************************** *********
Here's the DOING PART 1: http://wh.gov/4d1

Here's the DOING PART 2: http://www.opencongress.org/bill/112-h3012/show

Here's the DOING PART 3: https://www.popvox.com/bills/us/112/hr3012
************************************************** *********

[July2007PD]

J07PD, tell us more. Is there democratic support in the senate too? What's your view on timing?

Yes we have democratic support in senate as well. The bill got tweaked after a zillion efforts and meetings with them.

[nishant2200]

I am with you guys. I have done all 3 and am going to email all my friends, and even call few of them who I know are lazy. I might even print this out and put on indian store near my home.

Pedro - You are the man. Couldn't have said it better. Never in my life did I think it will take so much to explain the worthiness of the phrase "First Come First Served".

Folks... if explanations like these on a forum full of Chinese and Indian folks cannot get you to push for this bill, I'm not sure what can.

To those who call this a waste of time: Certainly not. Pushing for a bill isn't a failed cause if the bill doesn't pass. We now have the white house petition system noticing us. Will it help? May be not. But having a few thousand people show their concern, not by staging a protest in front of the capitol on a cold winter night, but by pressing a button, isn't something we should be thinking too much about.

Dont get so used to the "Too bad we have to wait for 5 years" syndrome that you don't realize that there's a slight, but real, possibility out there of things changing. Get out of your self-centered rut of coming to this forum to "READ" for support. Instead, "DO" the little, however little it may be.

MY CALL INCLUDES THE MOST ACTIVE MEMBERS OF THIS FORUM, WHO ARE LIKELY TO BECOME CURRENT SOON, AND ARE NOT GOING TO BE DIRECTLY AFFECTED BY THIS BILL.

As Pedro said best...
""
... we argue that this is a) fair, b) in the interests of US businesses, and c) far more likely to pass than any bill that increases absolute immigration levels in the current environment.
""

Note that beneficiaries from EVERY COUNTRY other than IC will oppose this. It is even more important for you to support it. The petition must cross 150 votes for it to be visible to public at large.

************************************************** *********
Here's the DOING PART 1: http://wh.gov/4d1

Here's the DOING PART 2: http://www.opencongress.org/bill/112-h3012/show

Here's the DOING PART 3: https://www.popvox.com/bills/us/112/hr3012
************************************************** *********

[vishnu]

July2007PD - I am confused. I appreciate your comments on this bill, but when you say 'we have democrat support...how do you know? I don't mean to sound rude, but purely asking out of ignorance.

[ssvp22]

For all the jibber jabber that nothing can be done without passing a bill, you have this - http://travel.state.gov/visa/immigra...info_4172.html . While, i can be wrong, but i have not seen a bill come along.

[nishant2200]

For all the jibber jabber that nothing can be done without passing a bill, you have this - http://travel.state.gov/visa/immigra...info_4172.html . While, i can be wrong, but i have not seen a bill come along.

There's 10000 U visas too. There's all sorts of ways.

Frankly speaking, there's just too many of us

Entire life waiting in lines!

Let's hope USCIS backlog carries on n we keep getting goodies from our SO sources.

mango dilse milega zaroor. Doston meri dil ki dua aap sabke liye.

From Lord of the rings:

The Road goes ever on and on
Out from the door where it began.
Now far ahead the Road has gone,
Let others follow it who can!
Let them a journey new begin,
But I at last with weary feet
Will turn towards the lighted inn,
My evening-rest and sleep to meet.

Time to enjoy pani-puri waiting for me!

[Pedro Gonzales]

I met Senator Schumer (very briefly) at an (Indian) event this evening. I asked him about HR 3012 (didn't have time to explain but mentioned eliminating country caps). He seemed bemused but his aide seemed to know what I was talking about. He said that the senator supported it. The senator then smiled and said he was a proponent of legal immigration and a friend of the Indian people. I think this thing might actually have legs.

[gcq]

I met Senator Schumer (very briefly) at an (Indian) event this evening. I asked him about HR 3012 (didn't have time to explain but mentioned eliminating country caps). He seemed bemused but his aide seemed to know what I was talking about. He said that the senator supported it. The senator then smiled and said he was a proponent of legal immigration and a friend of the Indian people. I think this thing might actually have legs.

Interesting that Senator is trying to portray himself as "friend of the Indian people" after that chop-shop comment on infosys and funding border security from H1B fees !

[nishant2200]

Interesting that Senator is trying to portray himself as "friend of the Indian people" after that chop-shop comment on infosys and funding border security from H1B fees !

gcq, that's what is a politician. Friend of the circumstance and self!

I have really become very hopeful suddenly for this bill. May God help us.

[immitime]

Thank you! I am trying what I can. I am thoroughly confused why this bill is not getting as much attention as it should in the Indian and Chinese community. Instead of an in-the-air fantasy petition that will have to be "pushed" by the white house, this is a real bill that already exists and has the support of - at least - two heavy weight congressmen (that too Republicans). I hope people take the time to read and recognize what this bill proposes.

Until Oct 3rd.. the petition threshold was 5000 signatures, now from Oct 3rd onwards it is 25000 signatures if we reach that then it become 2 million!


AS OF OCTOBER 3, 2011:
To cross the first threshold and be searchable within WhiteHouse.gov, a petition must reach 150 signatures within 30 days.To cross the second threshold and require a response, a petition must reach 25,000 signatures within 30 days.
https://wwws.whitehouse.gov/petition...-participation

Scroll down till the end.clicking the above link.

[Kanmani]

I dont know how this is going to go ........... Same context diff bill within 15 days .......... why dont they unite and support the Republican bill itself............

Rep. Zoe Lofgren of California introduces yesterday H.R.3119 to remove the per-country limitation on employment-based immigrant visas and to adjust the per-country limitation on family-sponsored immigrant visas. This bill is co-sponsored by Rep. Gutierrez of Illinois.

Source OH LAW Firm www.immigration-law.com

[Kanmani]

Stemcell

Honestly speaking , US govt has no deal even if the affidavit is submitted in a plain paper itself. But most of the NRIs obtain one in a stamp paper because, stamp paper is a noted official document in India.

In my opinion , you can discuss with the notary public, whoever you are approaching , he will guide you with the amount worth according to the substance of the affidavit.

[vishnu]

kanmani - i don't see this new bill at all. Zoe Lofgren introduced her bill a few weeks back that is more comprehensive. Focuses on green cards for STEM, visa recapture and removing per country limits. But given the Republicans have introduced the new bill (Chaffetz bill) to remove per country limits, clearly they are unlikely to lend support to Lofgren's prior bill.

[Kanmani]

Vishnu

here is the link http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill.xpd?bill=h112-3119

[vishnu]

thanks kanmani... very bizarre, same bill different sponsor. at least there is support for the concept on both sides now... question now is which bill goes forward. also interesting that the bill has been referred to the house judiciary committree who's chair is lamar smith (co-sponsor of the republican bill) and has chaffetz has a leading member

[Stemcell]

Kanmani,indiaeb2.
Thank you.

Stemcell

Honestly speaking , US govt has no deal even if the affidavit is submitted in a plain paper itself. But most of the NRIs obtain one in a stamp paper because, stamp paper is a noted official document in India.

In my opinion , you can discuss with the notary public, whoever you are approaching , he will guide you with the amount worth according to the substance of the affidavit.

[immitime]

thanks kanmani... very bizarre, same bill different sponsor. at least there is support for the concept on both sides now... question now is which bill goes forward. also interesting that the bill has been referred to the house judiciary committree who's chair is lamar smith (co-sponsor of the republican bill) and has chaffetz has a leading member

Excellent Analysis by Pedro Gonzales, if any of the bill are able to pass and becomes law what could happen. Scroll down little bit the below thread



http://www.qesehmk.org/forums/showth...cal-limitation

[imdeng]

Removing (or relaxing) country limits is something that has a better chance than other bills since this provision should also get a lot of support from Latino community and legislators. If you look at FB data, Latin American countries are severely oversubscribed because they run against the per country limit there. Relaxing per country limits helps Latinos in FB and Asians in EB - win win for both. I hope this gets more traction.

I dont know how this is going to go ........... Same context diff bill within 15 days .......... why dont they unite and support the Republican bill itself............

Rep. Zoe Lofgren of California introduces yesterday H.R.3119 to remove the per-country limitation on employment-based immigrant visas and to adjust the per-country limitation on family-sponsored immigrant visas. This bill is co-sponsored by Rep. Gutierrez of Illinois.

Source OH LAW Firm www.immigration-law.com

[Kanmani]

House Judiciary Committee Markup on H.R. 3012, the “Fairness for High-Skilled Immigrants Act” Thursday, October 13, 2011 10:15 a.m. and on Friday, October 14, 2011 10:00 a.m. 2141 Rayburn House Office Building

[immitime]

House Judiciary Committee Markup on H.R. 3012, the “Fairness for High-Skilled Immigrants Act” Thursday, October 13, 2011 10:15 a.m. and on Friday, October 14, 2011 10:00 a.m. 2141 Rayburn House Office Building

Kanmani,

No use all political exercises, ultimately there will be a tug of war around December and the house will go for recess...as u sual this exercise who make the immigrants fool is going on for past 7 years.. nothing really happens. Expectation gives real tears.