Senate CIR Bill Summary & Discussion

[rupen86]

I said "unlikely" as I don't believe the bill will be enacted by Sep-end. It has to go thru the Senate (may/June timeframe), read/discussed in the House, edited (almost guaranteed) and then voted (and hopefully passed) and then re-voted in the Senate. You also have summer recess which is pretty much all of August.

I hope I'm wrong but I don't see this going thru by FY13 end ergo first fiscal year will not be FY14. Sorry for being a "gloomy gus". Like I posted this AM, I don't see CIR affecting anyone with PDs mid 2008 - early 2009. It will be business as usual for them as far as GC.

Yes, if it does not pass by October, seems 120k won't be available for the entire year. I do not know why bill is written that way where one month delay in passing the bill could result in one year delay in implementation. I am hoping the bill would pass before October. Some of the earlier articles suggested it should pass before August recess otherwise it could meet with same protests in town-hall meetings like Obamacare and would force lawmakers to change their stand.

[bvsamrat]

Is the numbers are trippled and clears all backlog of last 10 years. Where the future demand would come from in coming years? Companies and consultants will be searching for applicants. May be - same reason for H1B reaching cap again so early this year unlike last 2 years. Getting ready to be in right position for the changes!

Not sure what limitless bandwagon you are talking about. There are some pretty strict rules as to what kind of STEM masters degree qualifies. It has to be from one of the best research universities in the country.

[vizcard]

Is the numbers are trippled and clears all backlog of last 10 years. Where the future demand would come from in coming years? Companies and consultants will be searching for applicants. May be - same reason for H1B reaching cap again so early this year unlike last 2 years. Getting ready to be in right position for the changes!

Please consider reposting with proper sentences. Its hard to figure out what you are saying. If I understand correctly, you are talking about clearing backlog vs future demand and then h1b visas? I'm not sure what the connections but I'll try to respond.

1. Previous backlog has got nothing to do with future demand. Using the current demographics, primary demand will remain fairly flat albeit the mix will change from higher % of EB3 to more EB1s and STEM MS/PhD EB2s. The increase in future demand will come from potential illegals and Dreamers along with the increased H1B cap (<45K).

2. This year's H1B usage is a direct result of hiring patterns. It's got nothing to do with immigration rules. The employment market is robust for skilled workers and therefore more H1b applicants. Ofcourse this will increase GC applications but this is like any other year.

[rupen86]

Is the following an accurate assessment?


CIR is highly favorable for EB applicants currently in the queue. Right now, it appears that EB STEM will have a cake walk in terms of getting GC, but the devil is in the details. You will need a H1-B in order to even apply for EB STEM GC
Face it, with all the restrictions on H1-B in CIR, and with 100,000+ new "american" workers ( current EB queue) poised to enter the work force in a few years, securing a H1-B with all the restrictions, will be a nightmare.
Unless, you are the best of the best, it will be hard. the reasons are as follows

1) The desi consulting business model will be bust, denying the H1-B route that many Indian Masters STEM students take
2) Major Indian outsourcing models will be bust, hence denying minor desi consultants the "projects" to supply Masters H1-B.
3) It will be very tough for a legit businesses to prove that they need H1-B, especially when there are 100,000 new "american" workers (current EB queue)

This will result in
1) Major tech firms cherry picking talent, meaning, only the best of the best will survive into a H1-B


I doubt, if even 65,000 H1-Bs will be filled from fiscal 2015.

Tough time ahead for Indian STEM Master's students unless you are the best of the best, which is what US EB system was in most of the 90s, prior to the IT outsourcing revolution in the late 90s resulting in the EB - backlog mess we are in today.

I kind of agree. With more restrictive H1 language, staffing companies both in US as well as outsourcing companies will be in tough position and may not do H1. It might be easier to get green card but harder to get H1.

[ggk189]

It is heartening to see a bill. A question on interpretation

In the bill for US STEM there is a phrase "US Institute of Doctoral Research" on page 306 ... classified by " (II) was classified by the Carnegie Foundation for the Advancement of Teaching on January 1, 2012, as a doctorate-granting university with a very high or high level of
research activity

Queried the carnegie list for universitites and it gives univeristy name and location, does the location of university matters in the interpretation of the list. If master,s is completed from a different campus of same university will it be counted.

[vizcard]

It is heartening to see a bill. A question on interpretation

In the bill for US STEM there is a phrase "US Institute of Doctoral Research" on page 306 ... classified by " (II) was classified by the Carnegie Foundation for the Advancement of Teaching on January 1, 2012, as a doctorate-granting university with a very high or high level of
research activity

Queried the carnegie list for universitites and it gives univeristy name and location, does the location of university matters in the interpretation of the list. If master,s is completed from a different campus of same university will it be counted.

I think it matters because not all regional campuses are created equal. UCLA and UC-Berkeley are close in terms of reputation..The other UCs also have strong research program. But if you flip to the other coast, HUGE difference between Rutgers-New Brunswick campus and Rutgers-Newark campus.

[rupen86]

I kind of agree. With more restrictive H1 language, staffing companies both in US as well as outsourcing companies will be in tough position and may not do H1. It might be easier to get green card but harder to get H1.

In one of the articles, I saw that 30%, 50% and 70% are for H1, L1 employers where green card petition is not filed. So, if that is filed, it does not remain restrictive. Am I right or have I missed something?

[feedmyback]

That is correct I believe. That is how I understood it too. And when they say "Green card petition filed", I assume it is I-140.

In one of the articles, I saw that 30%, 50% and 70% are for H1, L1 employers where green card petition is not filed. So, if that is filed, it does not remain restrictive. Am I right or have I missed something?

[abcx13]

In one of the articles, I saw that 30%, 50% and 70% are for H1, L1 employers where green card petition is not filed. So, if that is filed, it does not remain restrictive. Am I right or have I missed something?

You are correct. One of the articles I posted mentioned that Facebook lobbied for that exclusion. Apparently 15% of FB employee's are on H1Bs.

[kiddo9256]

In one of the articles, I saw that 30%, 50% and 70% are for H1, L1 employers where green card petition is not filed. So, if that is filed, it does not remain restrictive. Am I right or have I missed something?

yep, in one of the links on this boards, this was referred as Facebook lobbied amendment. if you have application filed, it wont be counted against Visa dependent calculation.

now, some co's anyway apply GC/EB3 so they may get by just by pushing papers.

[Spectator]

I totally admit I have lost track of all the posts, so sorry if this repetition. If it is, let me know and I will delete the post.

I don't recall anyone mentioning the ability to re-validate visas in the USA and not have to travel for a visa stamping.

The section on page 666 seems to allow that for qualifying applicants.

(c) VISA REVALIDATION.—

Section 222(c) (8 U.S.C. 1202(c)) is amended—

(1) by inserting ‘‘(1)’’ before ‘‘Every alien’’;
and
(2) by adding at the end the following:

‘‘(2) The Secretary of State may, at the Secretary’s discretion, renew in the United States the visa of an alien admitted under subparagraph (A), (E), (G), (H), (I), (L), 11 (N), (O), (P), (R), or (W) section 101(a)(15) if the alien has remained eligible for such status and qualifies for a waiver of interview as provided for in subsection (h)(1)(D).’’.

[Spectator]

That is correct I believe. That is how I understood it too. And when they say "Green card petition filed", I assume it is I-140.

feedmyback,

On page 686 it is defined as:

(f) INTENDING IMMIGRANTS DEFINED.—

Section 101(a) (8 U.S.C. 1101(a)) is amended by adding at the end the following:

‘‘(53)(A) The term ‘intending immigrant’ means, with respect to the number of aliens employed by an employer, an alien who intends to work and reside permanently in the United States, as evidenced by—

‘‘(i) for a covered employer, an approved application for a labor certification or an application that has been pending for longer than 1 year; or

‘‘(ii) a pending or approved immigrant status petition filed for such alien.

[qesehmk]

Spec - that's exactly what happened with me....

I guess what will be useful for everybody is for one or two among us need to take a lead and open a thread with static header that keeps updating on what the bill is and isn't.

My experience is that that is the best way to update people. Otherwise everybody gets completely lost in the discussion. Too much time spent on too little real information.

Wonder who are leaders / experts on this thread (of course other than you Spec) - Rupen? GS1968? ABCX? Justvisiting? Sorry if I missed somebody. But consider this style of updating people. Because over time all of our posts get lost except if you keep updating the headers.

I totally admit I have lost track of all the posts, ....

[abcx13]

Spec - that's exactly what happened with me....

I guess what will be useful for everybody is for one or two among us need to take a lead and open a thread with static header that keeps updating on what the bill is and isn't.

My experience is that that is the best way to update people. Otherwise everybody gets completely lost in the discussion. Too much time spent on too little real information.

Wonder who are leaders / experts on this thread (of course other than you Spec) - Rupen? GS1968? ABCX? Justvisiting? Sorry if I missed somebody. But consider this style of updating people. Because over time all of our posts get lost except if you keep updating the headers.

Good idea. Unfortunately I am no expert in interpreting legalese! I can keep a list of news links along with short snippets/summaries updated.

[abcx13]

I totally admit I have lost track of all the posts, so sorry if this repetition. If it is, let me know and I will delete the post.

I don't recall anyone mentioning the ability to re-validate visas in the USA and not have to travel for a visa stamping.

The section on page 666 seems to allow that for qualifying applicants.

Thanks Spec! I don't believe that was reported before and is great news indeed!

[vizcard]

I totally admit I have lost track of all the posts, so sorry if this repetition. If it is, let me know and I will delete the post.

I don't recall anyone mentioning the ability to re-validate visas in the USA and not have to travel for a visa stamping.

The section on page 666 seems to allow that for qualifying applicants.

I think it might be a chicken and egg issue for H1B/H4. Do you have to go overseas for the interview or do you have to interview because you are overseas?

[bvsamrat]

Sorry if I am misunderstood. But your reaction matches as reply to my post.

MHO- History and hence back log is very important for any future applicant and employer and also to the industry if needs to attract skilled workers.

As the number quota becomes high and clearing back log in matter of months due to CIR, expect that future demand will rise for sure.
It acts as catalyst to growth.
" skilled workers who earlier were not willing to wait for about 10 years will come back again"
Main AIM of CIR for legal workers is to improve demand for skilled workers and provide atractive environment and clearing backlog is the fist setp
somtimes this rise in demand(and hiring pattern) is proactive and not afterwards- This is what I am trying to say

Please consider reposting with proper sentences. Its hard to figure out what you are saying. If I understand correctly, you are talking about clearing backlog vs future demand and then h1b visas? I'm not sure what the connections but I'll try to respond.

1. Previous backlog has got nothing to do with future demand. Using the current demographics, primary demand will remain fairly flat albeit the mix will change from higher % of EB3 to more EB1s and STEM MS/PhD EB2s. The increase in future demand will come from potential illegals and Dreamers along with the increased H1B cap (<45K).

2. This year's H1B usage is a direct result of hiring patterns. It's got nothing to do with immigration rules. The employment market is robust for skilled workers and therefore more H1b applicants. Ofcourse this will increase GC applications but this is like any other year.

[Spectator]

I think it might be a chicken and egg issue for H1B/H4. Do you have to go overseas for the interview or do you have to interview because you are overseas?

viz,

I didn't want to post huge excerpts.

You have to meet the requirements of

(d) INTERVIEW WAIVERS FOR LOW RISK VISA APPLICANTS.

It can also be found on page 666.

[feedmyback]

Ooh then even an approved labor or a pending labor for more than an year would do...No need to have I-140 filed or approved. Thanks Spec.

[rupen86]

viz,

I didn't want to post huge excerpts.

You have to meet the requirements of



It can also be found on page 666.

What does that mean? Can you explain whether people from India on h1 would qualify ?

[rupen86]

Good idea. Unfortunately I am no expert in interpreting legalese! I can keep a list of news links along with short snippets/summaries updated.

Someone needs to go through multiple pages here, prepare draft summary which designated people can update and discuss and finally be posted.

[jrkpsp]

bill explained from fragomen
http://www.fragomen.com/newsresource...erts&news=2087

[qesehmk]

Pedro - I will wait till tomorrow before I create my spot - simply because I think there are quite a few others who have studied it better.

Following up on Q's suggestion, I suggest creating just 1 new thread and allowing each of the folks Q suggested (Spec, Rupen, GS1968, Justvisiting) and a few others (Q, vizcard, and I humbly include myself) to create place holders for their summary posts. Each of us can split and summarize the bill however we wish to. Once we think we are done, we can have a grand summary of the bill as it stands. Although the first step will get done in the next few days, it will be an ongoing exercise as amendments come in and are incorporated, and as the house bill is released.

Sound good?

If so, aforementioned subject matter experts, go hold your spot here: http://www.qesehmk.org/forums/showth...4716#post34716

[derekjbj]

There is a popular theme running on trackitt right now. Someone brought up the point, that on the day after CIR passes, people currently on H1-B working on client site as consultants( belonging to all shades of consulting, big4, indian IT biggies, minor Indian IT consulting) will go into "out-of-status", as their work situation will be deemed illegal by CIR, due to violation of H1-B.
What do you guys think of this ?

[vizcard]

There is a popular theme running on trackitt right now. Someone brought up the point, that on the day after CIR passes, people currently on H1-B working on client site as consultants( belonging to all shades of consulting, big4, indian IT biggies, minor Indian IT consulting) will go into "out-of-status", as their work situation will be deemed illegal by CIR, due to violation of H1-B.
What do you guys think of this ?

fear mongering. what is the basis for being in violation?