General Discussion About India

[qesehmk]

Leo .... I am very eagerly waiting for the Indian aircraft carrier ADS (advanced defense ship) and India's own GPS system. Today India uses Russian GPS for military and American and/or Russian for commercial. But having its own is critical since in case of conflict you don't want to be at their mercy to get your coordinates which can be so easily be rigged.

PS: That's Sukkhoi T-50 if you are wondering. Russia-India collaboration, which could get into IAF by 2013.

[leo07]

Absolutely. But, this is a very good leap for IAF, to be able to deliver a leading fighter-jet, of course with huge partnership from Russia. But,nevertheless raises our standards for much more in the future.

Leo .... I am very eagerly waiting for the Indian aircraft carrier ADS (advanced defense ship) and India's own GPS system. Today India uses Russian GPS for military and American and/or Russian for commercial. But having its own is critical since in case of conflict you don't want to be at their mercy to get your coordinates which can be so easily be rigged.

[qesehmk]

And they should actively increase indian coroporate presence in defense dealings. While that would be following footsteps into US military industrial complex .... I don't think India has the luxury to think otherwise.

p.s. - Brahmos has been a terrific success story. Speaks volumes to the goodwill between India Russia (and notwithstanding the bitter taste left in mouth by the Gorshkov / INS Vikramaditya)

Absolutely. But, this is a very good leap for IAF, to be able to deliver a leading fighter-jet, of course with huge partnership from Russia. But,nevertheless raises our standards for much more in the future.

[donvar]

And they should actively increase indian coroporate presence in defense dealings. While that would be following footsteps into US military industrial complex .... I don't think India has the luxury to think otherwise.

p.s. - Brahmos has been a terrific success story. Speaks volumes to the goodwill between India Russia (and notwithstanding the bitter taste left in mouth by the Gorshkov / INS Vikramaditya)

Brahmos is toothless unless they increase its range. They cannot take out any bases with such a limited range. Also I believe the time of aircrafts has gone. Aircrafts are good for non-nuclear neighbors. Any new conflict which involves aircraft will inevitably involve use surgical nuke strikes on our airfields. To have good deterrent country should have long range cruise and ballistic missiles and spread them well over submarines (not necessary nuclear, diesel will do). Future wars will be decided in couple of hours.

[qesehmk]

You don't have to have range. You can sell it to friendly countries or put it on your ships and airplanes which then increases the range.

I think Brahmos is not intended as a nuclear missile. I think it is a tactical missile intended to carry out a precision strike. That is why it is stealth and terrain hugging and supersonic. For a strategic missile you don't care about stealth because once it reenters it usuallly would spawn into multiple targets. And by the way India doesn't have one. Even latest Agni is hardly capable of reaching China and that too not all parts of China. The Indian LRBM Surya with range of 10,000+km is shelved (apparently under pressure from US).

Anyway but coming back to Brahmos, this is better than anything in its class. I am not aware of if there is any stealth supersonic cruise missile other than Brahmos in the world.

Brahmos is toothless unless they increase its range. They cannot take out any bases with such a limited range. Also I believe the time of aircrafts has gone. Aircrafts are good for non-nuclear neighbors. Any new conflict which involves aircraft will inevitably involve use surgical nuke strikes on our airfields. To have good deterrent country should have long range cruise and ballistic missiles and spread them well over submarines (not necessary nuclear, diesel will do). Future wars will be decided in couple of hours.

[donvar]

You don't have to have range. You can sell it to friendly countries or put it on your ships and airplanes which then increases the range.

I think Brahmos is not intended as a nuclear missile. I think it is a tactical missile intended to carry out a precision strike. That is why it is stealth and terrain hugging and supersonic. For a strategic missile you don't care about stealth because once it reenters it usuallly would spawn into multiple targets. And by the way India doesn't have one. Even latest Agni is hardly capable of reaching China and that too not all parts of China. The Indian LRBM Surya with range of 10,000+km is shelved (apparently under pressure from US).

Anyway but coming back to Brahmos, this is better than anything in its class. I am not aware of if there is any stealth supersonic cruise missile other than Brahmos in the world.

In considering the usefulness, you have to see the usage scenario. In case of India, unlike US, missiles will be only used in case of war with India. Any missile even non nuclear crossing our western border will invite nuclear strike as nobody would want to assume that missile sent was a non nuclear missile.

Now coming to Brahmos : It is a cruise missile intended to do tactical/surgical strikes. It should be nuclear enabled to take out deep hidden missile silos of enemy country. I am not impressed with supersonic that too with stealth as it is an overkill. Our neighbors dont have the capability to take down any missile. Our western neighbor is more pragmatic and though has a subsonic but a >1000 KM range Babur cruise missile which can take out our nuclear installations.

I am not interested in Air to Land Brahmos version as aircrafts wont have time to launch an attach unless it is a peremptory strike. I am interested in Land and sea (underwater Sub launched) launched Brahmos. It is precision strike missile and needs to have distance and punch(nuclear) to destroy deep seated installations.

Agni is ballistic missile which are not tactical/precise, it will though take out cities and they are a bigger deterrent than Brahmos.

What you mentioned about mutiple targets is MIRV, its good to have but with only range of 300 KM, totally useless.

I sincerely believe aircrafts will not have a role to play in future war involving missile. Any missile launched will be assumed a nuke missile launched and you got to have air strips intact for aircrafts.

[TheTexan]

Don't mean to derail the thread but I beg to differ. Saying Brahmos is toothless is a bit extreme. Also, fighter planes will not be irrelevant atleast not in near years. Their roles will change. Case in point - Let us say that an armored column of Paki tanks decide to cross the border and attack Longewala post, will you launch a nuclear missile? or will you send Mirage 2000 with smart bombs? Btw, all the fighter planes buffs should go through Bharat-rakshak.com.... Amazing!

[qesehmk]

Here we are going by the books, enduring emotional stress, anxiety etc and the government decides to give amnesty to illegals. If I do something that is illegal, I get punished by law, these people came here illegally but they'll be awarded citizenship... just ranting... again... :-)

It is really painful. The power of numbers .... what else? Asians on the other hand generally immigration into high skilled areas and as a result don't have numbers on their side.

In considering the usefulness, you have to see the usage scenario. In case of India, unlike US, missiles will be only used in case of war with India. Any missile even non nuclear crossing our western border will invite nuclear strike as nobody would want to assume that missile sent was a non nuclear missile.

Now coming to Brahmos : It is a cruise missile intended to do tactical/surgical strikes. It should be nuclear enabled to take out deep hidden missile silos of enemy country. I am not impressed with supersonic that too with stealth as it is an overkill. Our neighbors dont have the capability to take down any missile. Our western neighbor is more pragmatic and though has a subsonic but a >1000 KM range Babur cruise missile which can take out our nuclear installations.

I am not interested in Air to Land Brahmos version as aircrafts wont have time to launch an attach unless it is a peremptory strike. I am interested in Land and sea (underwater Sub launched) launched Brahmos. It is precision strike missile and needs to have distance and punch(nuclear) to destroy deep seated installations.

Agni is ballistic missile which are not tactical/precise, it will though take out cities and they are a bigger deterrent than Brahmos.

What you mentioned about mutiple targets is MIRV, its good to have but with only range of 300 KM, totally useless.

I sincerely believe aircrafts will not have a role to play in future war involving missile. Any missile launched will be assumed a nuke missile launched and you got to have air strips intact for aircrafts.

I thought I wouldn't bore other people with this discussion .... but now that Texan has raised it, wouldn't hurt to add a few things:

1. First I do agree that drones have a much better future.
2. However teh process will be a long and drawn since India has so much manpower and we don't have enough money to spend on drones and pilotless aircrafts. That is the reason why we want a 2 seator T20 rather than teh single seator that Russian wants for itself.
3. Supersonic and hypersonic are crucial to keep the element of surprise. Beside then they don't have to carry a larger bomb. The kinetic energy at mach 4-5-6 is huge.
4. MIRV agree is not a concept useful with Brahmos. They are two different things. Brahmos is a terrain hugging cruise missile.

Don't mean to derail the thread but I beg to differ. Saying Brahmos is toothless is a bit extreme. Also, fighter planes will not be irrelevant atleast not in near years. Their roles will change. Case in point - Let us say that an armored column of Paki tanks decide to cross the border and attack Longewala post, will you launch a nuclear missile? or will you send Mirage 2000 with smart bombs? Btw, all the fighter planes buffs should go through Bharat-rakshak.com.... Amazing!

Texan I love Bharat-Rakshak.com ..... a lot of military folks do contribute articles there. Inspite of political areas being effed up, Indian defense establishment is still doing its job in the means it has. And while Pakistani defense establishment has been supporting terrorism, their forces are very very professional - afterall both militaries share the same proud history and traditions.

[TheTexan]

Q,

You are right. Indian armed forces are doing a great job and very professional. She seriously lacks political will, foresight but that is another discussion. Also, you might want to check militaryphotos.net they have some amazing photos or war gizmos :-)

[immitime]

Eventhough i***t politicians trying to make India's military powerless. We are always respected for our might and power. A great website about India's military.

http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/

Vande Matharam!

[qesehmk]

Q, I am really enjoying the laddu. I always say to my friend, that if something unfortunate happens and I get kicked out, I will go as no choice, but otherwise I love USA.

Nishant while that is ok to say about US; it is not ok to say about your true Laddu. There you have to say "Even if you kick me I will stick around". Just saying ....

[visagcinfo]

asankaran,
agree with you.

Q, don't want to miss this. Can someone translate pls?

shaadi kaa laddu. Jo khaye woh pachataye .... jo na khaye woh bhee pachataye!

nishant2200:
oh... no. I have always thought that is a stable place based on what I hear(d) from a friend who lives nearby. btw, i heard similar news at a company near the capitol too recently - but this company was expected to go down in their head count based on their industry and the economy.

Guys, just today

[soggadu]

asankaran,
agree with you.

Q, don't want to miss this.

that means..... Marriage sweet...who eat feel bad... Who no eat also feel bad... Bottom line... FEEL BAD!!!

[qesehmk]

It meant - "Marriage is a Laddu (i.e. sweet) that makes one repent it whether you eat it or not."

Q, don't want to miss this. Can someone translate pls?

[qblogfan]

My attitude towards GC is: if they keep me, I will keep milking the company; if they kick me out, I will go without complaining. After being cheated by the employer, I didn't work hard for them at all. Don't blame me, because of the frustration by this crazy long wait for GC, I do minimum work and count my pay checks every two weeks. Frankly not a single Indian/Chinese EB2 is happy about the long wait.

If we take things too seriously and put too much efforts into the work, we will be sad when they kick us out. If we don't put too much into it, we won't be too sad because at least we got some easy pay checks and enjoyed a good time here!

Guys, just today a near by huge company, the number one biotech company in world, won't take names here, laid off people from its R&D department. My two friends in that department, luckily escaped, and they are current in Nov VB and are preparing to file 485. One more friend, got laid off, but had just got the GC 6 days back. Luck. But not everyone would have been so lucky in last few years, as well as the other reasons people have mentioned.

One has to throw in a caution though, Spec has already baked in a drop off factor into the figures he has put up in facts and data, so it's not that we have not considered this.

I feel bad for people who suffered layoff or left for various reasons if they were not happy about it, but it may very well be the big help we need this year. FY 2010 we got FB 10k surprise help, FY 2011 we got the EB1 12k help (I think EB2 ROW caught up with usage later on) and low SYAs, and FY 2012 may very well turn out to be the unexpected help due to bad economy and H1 scrutiny taking a toll right now as well as through last few years on folks not having protection of EAD/AP.

For FY 2012, I still see Kazarian in place tormenting EB1A, EB1B, EB2 NIW. EB2ROW usage nothing has changed to suggest a dramatic surge in applications. EB5 US is trying to sell to people almost GC for money, smart investor will not put money in US right now, unless its throwaway cash and wants a backup for his kids in this country (read rich people in India and China). Doesnt look like USCIS is going great guns on 140 backlog at least right now. EB1C PP is not going to take place until next year. The EB1C PP and the 140 backlog reduction if happens, can cause problems.

This is all just speculation, just few weeks back we were thinking of doomsday case this year, with barely 18k SOFAD coming up, only till Oct 1st 2007 getting GC and so on.

We don't have data yet to speculate completely either way. Let's hope for the best.

ps: Q, I am really enjoying the laddu. I always say to my friend, that if something unfortunate happens and I get kicked out, I will go as no choice, but otherwise I love USA.

[nishant2200]

qbf, you rock! I am becoming qbf's fan

18 days to go.

My attitude towards GC is: if they keep me, I will keep milking the company; if they kick me out, I will go without complaining. After being cheated by the employer, I didn't work hard for them at all. Don't blame me, because of the frustration by this crazy long wait for GC, I do minimum work and count my pay checks every two weeks. Frankly not a single Indian/Chinese EB2 is happy about the long wait.

If we take things too seriously and put too much efforts into the work, we will be sad when they kick us out. If we don't put too much into it, we won't be too sad because at least we got some easy pay checks and enjoyed a good time here!

[qblogfan]

haha, thank you, my friend!

I am a big fan of nishant too!

I wish good luck to both of us!

If Mr.CO is really crazy, he may publish the VB in Nov.4th! He can do many crazy things! Maybe only 16 days to go! haha

Our Indian and Chinese friends have suffered too much from this GC long wait! We have been waiting for so many years and nobody can understand the pain of this process. I wish all of us can get GC ASAP!

qbf, you rock! I am becoming qbf's fan

18 days to go.

[imdeng]

When things get really tough - remember Sheldon's Law (ref: Foundation series by Asimov, hands down the best Science Fiction out there) - wait until there is only one alternative - take that and then keep waiting until all other alternatives go away and you are again left with just one.

Your destiny is already written - you are only following the script. Enjoy life and just keep doing what is needed - and do that to the best of your abilities. Life is great even without a GC.

[imdeng]

BTW - I am India right now - visiting parents for Diwali - and boy its bad in here. I get all the growth, opportunities etc. - but the quality of the day to day life pure sucks. Some observations:

1. I remember traffic as being bad - but the situation now is so awefully bad. New Delhi is bad enough - but smaller cities (I am in Ranchi right now) are even worse.
2. Thullas (cops, I feel compelled to translate everything for QBF - he is by far my favorite non-Guru poster here) are as much a menace as ever - always looking to get petty bribes.
3. Whats with all school/college age kids hanging around on streets/malls during school time??
4. Inflation OMG! Everything costs double than I remembered them from a few years back. So many things are now almost as expensive as they are in US.
5. Saas-Bahu (Monther-In-Law and Daughter-In-Law) dramas are stupid - there seems to be hundreds of them - on at all times of the day. What is even more stupid is that ALL 50+ women I know loves them - they are all in a trance watching them. All my protests about none of the women in those dramas ever studying or working, unreasonable premise of joint families with four generations living in a palace together, unbelievably sexist attitudes of everyone in there etc etc all fall on deaf ears.

I have more - but the power just went off - so got to post before my battery dies.

[immitime]

BTW - I am India right now - visiting parents for Diwali - and boy its bad in here. I get all the growth, opportunities etc. - but the quality of the day to day life pure sucks. Some observations:

1. I remember traffic as being bad - but the situation now is so awefully bad. New Delhi is bad enough - but smaller cities (I am in Ranchi right now) are even worse.
2. Thullas (cops, I feel compelled to translate everything for QBF - he is by far my favorite non-Guru poster here) are as much a menace as ever - always looking to get petty bribes.
3. Whats with all school/college age kids hanging around on streets/malls during school time??
4. Inflation OMG! Everything costs double than I remembered them from a few years back. So many things are now almost as expensive as they are in US.
5. Saas-Bahu (Monther-In-Law and Daughter-In-Law) dramas are stupid - there seems to be hundreds of them - on at all times of the day. What is even more stupid is that ALL 50+ women I know loves them - they are all in a trance watching them. All my protests about none of the women in those dramas ever studying or working, unreasonable premise of joint families with four generations living in a palace together, unbelievably sexist attitudes of everyone in there etc etc all fall on deaf ears.

I have more - but the power just went off - so got to post before my battery dies.

That is the Truth about India and the real picture. in a nutshell.. lot of my friends gone back thinking India is going to be super power now wants to come back to US. I recommended them to come as International Managers, so that they do not need to wait on this useless queue created to divide Immigrant community!

[suninphx]

That is the Truth about India and the real picture. in a nutshell.. lot of my friends gone back thinking India is going to be super power now wants to come back to US. I recommended them to come as International Managers, so that they do not need to wait on this useless queue created to divide Immigrant community!

Having worked with two of those top 5 from INDIA, one thing I can tell you that coming as international manager is not a easy task. Higher ups know that once you get GC you are going to change the jobs...so they dont want to put all money and effort.

[nishant2200]

In some other forums, you would be attacked by pack of wolves on expressing your views like this. I totally see where you are coming from. I agree with you, I am glad especially about the saas-bahu part (you totally said what I think), and would put one more point which may apply to some of us, our kids have no future in terms of education, because of reservation. Study entire day and be bookworms and "ratta" (mugging up, remembering word to word textbook without thought) and get 110% points, childhood lost in endless pursuit of a dream which should be a fundamental right of any child who is averagely smart. Because of reservation policies, I feel like I am outcasted from my own country.

We will move digressing posts few time later to other thread, but I could not stop myself from expressing how I completely felt same as you.

BTW - I am India right now - visiting parents for Diwali - and boy its bad in here. I get all the growth, opportunities etc. - but the quality of the day to day life pure sucks. Some observations:

1. I remember traffic as being bad - but the situation now is so awefully bad. New Delhi is bad enough - but smaller cities (I am in Ranchi right now) are even worse.
2. Thullas (cops, I feel compelled to translate everything for QBF - he is by far my favorite non-Guru poster here) are as much a menace as ever - always looking to get petty bribes.
3. Whats with all school/college age kids hanging around on streets/malls during school time??
4. Inflation OMG! Everything costs double than I remembered them from a few years back. So many things are now almost as expensive as they are in US.
5. Saas-Bahu (Monther-In-Law and Daughter-In-Law) dramas are stupid - there seems to be hundreds of them - on at all times of the day. What is even more stupid is that ALL 50+ women I know loves them - they are all in a trance watching them. All my protests about none of the women in those dramas ever studying or working, unreasonable premise of joint families with four generations living in a palace together, unbelievably sexist attitudes of everyone in there etc etc all fall on deaf ears.

I have more - but the power just went off - so got to post before my battery dies.

[usernameisnotvalid]

my first post here. could not control myself after reading this. I like the way you put it: "Study entire day and be bookworks and "ratta" and get 110% points, childhood lost in endless pursuit of a dream which should be a fundamental right of any child who is averagely smart. "

Thanks

In some other forums, you would be attacked by pack of wolves on expressing your views like this. I totally see where you are coming from. I agree with you, I am glad especially about the saas-bahu part (you totally said what I think), and would put one more point which may apply to some of us, our kids have no future in terms of education, because of reservation. Study entire day and be bookworms and "ratta" (mugging up, remembering word to word textbook without thought) and get 110% points, childhood lost in endless pursuit of a dream which should be a fundamental right of any child who is averagely smart. Because of reservation policies, I feel like I am outcasted from my own country.

We will move digressing posts few time later to other thread, but I could not stop myself from expressing how I completely felt same as you.

[TheTexan]

Nishant,

You hit the nail! I am of the exact same opinion.

[qblogfan]

Haha, I am glad to know I am your favorite non-guru poster!

I think India and China will develop and catch up with the western countries sooner or later. It's just a matter of time. Both countries have huge populations, so it's difficult to turn around and catch up with the west. I think education is very important. In China 2/3 of the population are still in the country side and the education in the country side is pretty bad. I think India is in similar situation.

BTW - I am India right now - visiting parents for Diwali - and boy its bad in here. I get all the growth, opportunities etc. - but the quality of the day to day life pure sucks. Some observations:

1. I remember traffic as being bad - but the situation now is so awefully bad. New Delhi is bad enough - but smaller cities (I am in Ranchi right now) are even worse.
2. Thullas (cops, I feel compelled to translate everything for QBF - he is by far my favorite non-Guru poster here) are as much a menace as ever - always looking to get petty bribes.
3. Whats with all school/college age kids hanging around on streets/malls during school time??
4. Inflation OMG! Everything costs double than I remembered them from a few years back. So many things are now almost as expensive as they are in US.
5. Saas-Bahu (Monther-In-Law and Daughter-In-Law) dramas are stupid - there seems to be hundreds of them - on at all times of the day. What is even more stupid is that ALL 50+ women I know loves them - they are all in a trance watching them. All my protests about none of the women in those dramas ever studying or working, unreasonable premise of joint families with four generations living in a palace together, unbelievably sexist attitudes of everyone in there etc etc all fall on deaf ears.

I have more - but the power just went off - so got to post before my battery dies.