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Hello,
Thank you for sharing your advice on investment.Sounds are most of you are in your late 30s or early 40s.If you don't mind sharing, how are you taking care of aging parents back in India? Without citizenship we cannot sponsor parents.With the endless wait for GC, the wait for citizenship seems to be REALLY long!
probably my dad and me will get GC around same time, my dad can get gc when he visits US next as my brother became USC.Quote:
Originally Posted by may2011
my mom is with god she dont need GC
a very good question. i am interested in your thoughts.Quote:
Originally Posted by may2011
I will be happy to discuss this topic in private or another thread.Quote:
Originally Posted by may2011
I will DM youQuote:
Originally Posted by sportsfan33
or we can discuss in a new thread so that it is useful for everyone.Quote:
Originally Posted by sportsfan33
in continuation of this topic: for how long can a green card holder visit parents back home? for 6 months in a year?
Quote:
Originally Posted by ak7419
I am not sure as yet. From what I have read, insurance premiums in US are astronomical for people over 65 and they keep on increasing as one ages. Even high insurance does not necessarily cover everything.Again this is anecdotal evidence.
Travel insurance is a scam, they don't cover anything. I had a very bad experience with them.
By the time a parent reaches the mid-sixties, almost everything they get is a 'pre-existing' condition.
There is no special provision for visiting parents as such. However yes a GC holder must be in the US at least 6 months in a year.Quote:
Originally Posted by ak7419
I know based on close friends' experiences that as a GC holder you can stay in India for almost 1 year if you spend last 6 months of year 1 and first 6 months of year 2. One of my friends mom once did this and they allowed her in. But I wouldn't take chances TBH.
A GC is still just a visa - a bit more powerful because you are legally a US person. The immigration officer can still deny you an entry for any or no reason - by law. So it is safe to stay within the limit of 6 months.
I will share a few thoughts on the thread here.
Incidentally, just last week, two friends faced deaths of their dads. They are both in India as of this moment.
In general, as first generation immigrants, maintaining relationships with our parents, and in general, with the land where we grew up in is going to be increasingly difficult. That it is even possible is a wonder of the 21st century technology - think of all those immigrants who checked in through the Ellis island over a hundred years ago. They cut off the proverbial umbilical cord with their homelands and became Americans through and through.
Back to the topic: we do have a few choices. None of them are easy. I am citing them from numerous examples of friends in their 40s or 50s and also myself.
1. You have a large family back in India including siblings who can take care of parents. In this "lucky situation", the parental responsibilities do not fall on you directly. I somewhat fall in this category in that my brother is in India and looks after them. Both my nephew and my niece (US citizens by birth) are in the US for undergrad schooling, so I have plenty of opportunities to return the favor.
2. Your parents are generally healthy.
2a. They are relatively young (in their 70s) to be able to travel. If they must, they can visit you on B1/B2 visas every year. I would say totally shun away from travel insurance - all anecdotal examples I have point to travel insurances being worthless. If you have doctor friends, ask them to give prescriptions when needed and have the medicines ship to the US. I have done this twice for my aunt (who lives with us in the US on B1/B2) and it is relatively painless. The medicines go through customs and you pay ~$25 to get the package cleared. Barring some serious health issue during the stay, this situation is manageable.
2a1. If something serious does happen, in the famed Douglas Adams' words, "don't panic". I have seen people go to GoFundMe and raise money through successful campaigns. The hospitals are also required to provide the treatment by law, and you are NOT obligated to pay your parent's debts by law. If the push comes to shove, never hesitate to call 911, get them in the ambulance and take them straight to the ER.
2b. They are old and cannot travel. First, I would see if you can just buy them first/business class tickets making their travel possible. Instead of $2K, you are looking at ~$6k an year. Granted, it's not cheap, but at this point in our lives, this is probably the least all of us can do for our parents. The business class travel experience is different as night and day; it's possible they can continue traveling to the US.
2c. They are too old to travel or are just unwilling to even in the business class. This will require a separate discussion.
3. Your parents are not in good health or they are too old or they are willing to travel.
By the laws of physics, when the parents are "there" and you are "here", and when we still haven't invented the beam-me-up-scotty transporter, something has to give. Now, it is time to get creative.
3a. Can you just relocate for a few years to India? If you are waiting for the GC, as we all know by now (thanks to Q's forum, we are all immigration experts now, aren't we?), you "do not lose your place in the line". You can always come back and even if you had to restart the PERM, you may very well use the old priority date on your last approved I140.
3b. If you are unwilling to give up your budding and ascending career in the land of opportunity just when it is starting to take off, there are other options/lifestyle decisions. There will come a time when it would be unnecessary for both of you to work to sustain a household and be financially healthy. If this point hasn't arrived by your mid 40s at least, I would say you aren't managing your finances right (did you buy a million dollar house? That's probably the culprit). It should be possible for one of you to quit and relocate to India and the other person to "hold the front" in the US. Teleworking is totally possible and is becoming a norm in the post-covid world; the only issue organizations face is from a security standpoint - allowing access to their US corporate networks from India. It is certainly not an insurmountable problem though, and you can always find an employer who would let you work a few months every year from India.
In fact, we are thinking of doing this by next year (for reasons not totally related to just the health of parents). I see a lot of benefits here. You can maintain your link to your motherland, and continue to maintain relationships with relatives and friends. The IB schools in the metros are as good (and perhaps better) as the top public schools in the US now, so the kids will continue getting top notch education. The only problem is it is expensive to live this life. However, it is not impossible - at a certain level of income, the finances can work. Here's the high level blueprint of this strategy:
3b1) Rent a decent apartment in a good metro - I have done a lot of cashflow analysis, and I can share it with anyone interested to clearly demonstrate buying property in metros in India is insanity.
3b2) If you must, sell your house in the US and move to an apartment. In my personal case, it is unnecessary since I do not have an expensive house and it is already about 60% paid off. I can always refinance it to a 30 year note and not even notice the mortgage payment.
3b3) Enroll your kids to the best IB schools in that metro. This would be a very expensive affair, but this is one place where you absolutely cannot and must not cut back. If you cannot do this, I would say don't even venture this route.
3b4) Keep your operating expenses low and reasonable. If your spouse is not going to work (hopefully...that's the whole point, isn't it), you probably do not need a car in India and thus, also a driver. You can also look into renting furniture for the first year or two if you are just in the experimentation phase.
3b5) Make arrangements at work so that you can work for 3 to 4 months from India. Make two trips instead of one so that at any given time, you are physically only one or two months away from the US. No one will notice this short a period.
3b6) have your family come to the US during summers. Most IB schools will follow the American system closely, and will have a 10 week summer break. Thus, you would be spending 6 to 7 months with your family and 5 to 6 months away from them.
There is a lot of planning involved and a lot to think about here. Not everyone can pull it off, but there are certain metrics that you can evaluate and see if "you are there". Can you afford for your spouse to quit and possibly never work again? Can you afford all the extra expenses and possibly accumulate wealth at a slower rate? What are you getting in return?
My philosophy is the following: Our life is like an equation that we are trying to balance constantly. On one hand, we need to sacrifice our time to accumulate money, but on the other hand, we need to live our life by spending it. Mathematically speaking, a truly optimal equation would consist of you having lived a stunningly memorable life full of blasts and having exactly $0 on your deathbed (having spent your last dollar on your last memorable experience just the moment before). Of course, it's not possible ever, but we should strive to come close. I have seen people do it both ways and sometimes, with disastrous results. Some people quit too early and run out of money. Some never quit and develop a plethora of health issues and never truly enjoy the finer things they could have afforded with their wealth. How you balance yours is up to you.
4. Of course, you are a USC and your parents can get their GC and get medical insurance through Obamacare marketplace. In a way, this scenario cuts off India from the picture completely. I have friends who have done this too. In one case, his mom was unwilling to keep living here, so she's going back this year. I guess he would have to make some choices then.
Looking beyond the situation of parents, overall, we should take a little step back and just see the big picture. Our lives have been through a major upheaval. We have left our childhood homes, friends, relatives and just spread across the world pursuing our dreams. However, as all of us are hitting the mid ages, the once-theoretical retirement is no longer far away over the horizon. We need to figure out what all of us will do ourselves in retirement - where would we spend it? Who will surround us? Would we even feel any connection after many decades going back home and attempting to spend the retired life there? We all watch money very closely, and know what our "financial capital" is, but we rarely pay any attention to "social capital". Our social connections are absolutely a part of our "net worth". They must be nurtured and grown. Unfortunately, there is no stock market, where growth is immediate - it may take years, and sometimes, you would have to sacrifice some money to pursue the social connections.
I guess that was too much of a life lesson lecture. I think I have put down all points I could think of. I would welcome any discussion or additional stuff from others.
Nice post, sportsfan33! Very clearly articulated options laid out for everyone to consume!
I only have one point to make here: ask your parent(s) what THEY want to do? No matter their health and yours and theirs financial situation, not everyone wants to uproot and move permanently or even temporarily for months at a time especially in the twilight years. Compared to us who are living here, our parents are for the most part are interwoven into the fabric there in every way imaginable and truly have a sense of belonging when they are there. They want a constant stream of visitors day in and day out chitchatting and gossiping about news in the neighborhood and local and national politics, sports, issues etc. Not everyone wants to come here and stay locked up in a golden cage by themselves for a large part of the day, day in and day out. And you can only go for so many walks around the neighborhood. The couple of times my parents visited when our children were born, they planned to be here for 3 months but left after 8-10 weeks each time saying, look we want to spend more time but we don't really belong here and we understood. But again each family's attitudes are very different so they may have different opinions of that.
Great post @sportsfan33. Uplifting and eye opening at the same time. I cannot believe time has just flew by. Life is a journey and not a destination fits so well in this context.
1. Are everyone's parents receptive to getting vaccinated? Both my parents have co-morbidities and are anxious about vaccines. Does anyone have experiences they would like to share on this?
2. Q mentioned that GC holder must be in US for at least 6 months in a year. Has anyone done that recently or pre-covid time? I would like to know their experiences, adjustments they had to make, etc.
My Dad worked in medical research at Pfizer for 40 yrs so... yeah, no probs there ;-)Quote:
Originally Posted by ak7419
On the GC question, here is a good read from Fragomen: https://www.fragomen.com/sites/know-...esident-status
1) Both my parents got vaccinated in India.Physicians.Father has underlying condition. No side effects ..fingers crossed :)Quote:
Originally Posted by ak7419
That was an amazing read !!!Quote:
Originally Posted by sportsfan33
I agree T_D!Quote:
Originally Posted by Turbulent_Dragonfly
In my earlier post, I made a mention (in point 4) of a friend's mom. I believe she is even eligible for the US citizenship - in fact, I bet she's probably got it and is now going back to India.
If we put ourselves in their shoes, we could not fathom living in the US. It is inconceivable. In fact, this singular fact inspired my earlier post - I have made an assumption that the parents almost certainly would never settle permanently in the US. This is very true in my own parent's cases.
These are two very distinct and immutable choices all of us will face in our lives. On one hand, you would not be spending time with your parents in their golden age years. On the other hand, you (and likely your spouse) have survived the American immigration system and have accumulated several years of experience in the world's finest corporate engine. You are just now entering the prime phase where you will start seeing the payout for all these years of hard work and perseverance. Quitting now is inconceivable - it can affect your lifetime's wealth and your children's futures.
All of my choices offer a "middle ground". It is somewhat likely that your parents will stay healthy in their 80s and you would have already achieved the peak of your career - if ages align so, you are in your 50s already. You could definitely think about retiring and going back. However from anecdotal experiences, these cases are rare. A majority of us will face declining healths and possible demises of our parents in India while we are in the US.
Would it eat me up? Yes it would. I had a great childhood. It could eat up my conscience if one of them were to pass away and I couldn't see them in their last moments. Option 3b in my earlier post was borne out of my desire to solve my life's equation. We think we will do fine in our life if I were to continue growing in my career and my spouse were to quit. It is important to note that she does want to quit herself, because she values her free time and wants to spend with our children, and in growing our "social capital". It is also important to note that she herself would be greatly happy living in India, and it was her idea. Having her there as my proxy for more than half the year would be the best compromise possible. Who knows? Over time, we may establish a great domicile back home, and I might go back myself.
There are many things to be said and many details to enumerate. I won't do it all here on the public forum, but I will be definitely be happy to privately (and "anonymously") engage in discussions.
Sports,Quote:
Originally Posted by sportsfan33
This is sad, but very true. These are the sacrifices you make in order to pursue your American dream. Nothing is for free. Also, it is dangerous to wait and hope that the parents will stay healthy in their 80s. Life is so uncertain. All of us feel invincible until one or both of our parents pass away. Then the reality hits hard particularly if you were not there with them during their last days. You realize you will be in the exact same shoes of your parents 25 years from now (old age, declining health, kids not with you, etc. etc.) and time goes fast. Another fact is most of the wealth we earn throughout our life time, we are just keeper of it for 25-30-40 years. We have to leave it here when we pass away, so it is pointless to run behind it at the cost of other important priorities in life. Yes, you do need enough wealth to support a moderate lifestyle, but after that it is just an endless game. As Benjamin Franklin said, "Life's tragedy is that we get old too soon and wise too late."
My mom values her personal space. She is 70 and is comfortable visiting us here once in a year or two at US. She is fine with our choices of staying in US or India, she wants us to be respectful of her choice of staying back in India other than visiting US. Lost my dad in 90's during my college days. She is a strong woman and taught us not to be indecisive. She said there are only 2 possibilities decisive or indecisive. Over the last decade she had travelled with package tours to Europe/Israel/Jordan/Australia/Malaysia/Singapore/Sri Lanka when she is not visiting us.Quote:
Originally Posted by sportsfan33
My kid would be out of school by 2024. Factoring in college and masters I would hope he would be on his own in about 10 years by 2031. So yes at that point of time the middle part of your message becomes relevant to me personally.
Much respect to your mom Aceman! I am really glad she has gotten to see the world.Quote:
Originally Posted by AceMan
I do hope things line up for you, and you get to balance your equation really well :)
Very well put vedu! I think you captured a core point I wasn't able to articulate well --> "nothing is for free". It is so apt for all of us!Quote:
Originally Posted by vedu
I have a great deal of respect for the diaspora frequenting Q's forum. A majority have shown perseverance, and used their intelligence, skills and hard work to achieve great professional successes. However, it is true that treading this path of success has taken something invaluable away from us.
In some sense, we are actual physical beings. I wish we were like quantum particles capable of traveling all possible paths at once...but we aren't :) I digress. The point is when we make any choice, there are consequences. It's just how our world works.
Having said this, I am sure most of our parents are really glad we lived this life versus sitting around in India. I still remember my dad had almost kicked out my older brother (back in 1991!!) from our house, so he would take his scholarship offer and go to the US to do his MS (like how every respectable IITian was supposed to do). My brother still jokingly says this delayed his entrepreneurial adventures by a few years.
The Franklin quote really touched me :) I think all of us will realize our life is valued at the experiences we get out of it...not just our bank balance. However, it is undeniable we do need a bank balance to get good experiences. I wish everyone good luck to find that "golden balance" where each can maximize on both.
Great discussion. Almost everybody here can relate to this feeling of helplessness as well as the feeling of something that is lost or missing. Like the "Shadja" in raag Marawa, we can only yearn for it but never will attain it.
I try my best to live "Here and now". The rest is water under the bridge. The river keeps moving, we can never bathe in the same river twice. A moment gone is gone forever. All we can do is live every day the best we can.
The great Yogi Berra said once "When you come to a fork in the road, take it!".
Like all his quotes this one too is funny and profound at the same time. You don't take the fork before. And once you take it there is nothing to look back once you take it.
I am blessed with a situation where parents are relatively healthy, well to do financially in their own right, siblings there to take care. Is everything perfect? Absolutely not. Not even close. But life is like raag Marawa. You reach for that Shadja that you know will never be there. Not that we shouldn't try. But things will be imperfect. We just need to learn to live with imperfect.
Great discussions.
I feel that society is changing, i know few elderly couple in my street in India who choose to stay alone rather than with their sons/daughters who also stay in same city. Everyone's situation is different but i storngly feel that we need institutional solutions of assisted / semi assisted living and professional home care. And that should not be treated as stigma.
Based on migration trend and the fact that many countries wont allow petition of parents (and who knows when US will change that); issue is going to get worse over next 2-3 decades.
Every generation before us has faced similar issue. My parents lives in big city, my grandparents who used to live in small town moved with us when they could not be on their own. My great grandparents used to stay in small village and moved with my grandparents when they could not be on their own. Only in our case, distance and immgration issues make matters more complex.
Hi Folks - I am trying to send an oxygen concentrator to my parents back home. You can mock/scold or give me suggestions. Did anyone send one to India?
Quote:
Originally Posted by ak7419
https://www.fedex.com/en-us/coronavi...-to-india.html
Thank you! This was helpful. If anyone has any leads to finding an new/unused oxygen concentrator, please let me know. Finding the device seems to be an issue these days.Quote:
Originally Posted by beagle