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Leo .... I am very eagerly waiting for the Indian aircraft carrier ADS (advanced defense ship) and India's own GPS system. Today India uses Russian GPS for military and American and/or Russian for commercial. But having its own is critical since in case of conflict you don't want to be at their mercy to get your coordinates which can be so easily be rigged.
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Originally Posted by leo07
Absolutely. But, this is a very good leap for IAF, to be able to deliver a leading fighter-jet, of course with huge partnership from Russia. But,nevertheless raises our standards for much more in the future.
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Originally Posted by qesehmk
And they should actively increase indian coroporate presence in defense dealings. While that would be following footsteps into US military industrial complex .... I don't think India has the luxury to think otherwise.
p.s. - Brahmos has been a terrific success story. Speaks volumes to the goodwill between India Russia (and notwithstanding the bitter taste left in mouth by the Gorshkov / INS Vikramaditya)
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Originally Posted by leo07
Brahmos is toothless unless they increase its range. They cannot take out any bases with such a limited range. Also I believe the time of aircrafts has gone. Aircrafts are good for non-nuclear neighbors. Any new conflict which involves aircraft will inevitably involve use surgical nuke strikes on our airfields. To have good deterrent country should have long range cruise and ballistic missiles and spread them well over submarines (not necessary nuclear, diesel will do). Future wars will be decided in couple of hours.Quote:
Originally Posted by qesehmk
You don't have to have range. You can sell it to friendly countries or put it on your ships and airplanes which then increases the range.
I think Brahmos is not intended as a nuclear missile. I think it is a tactical missile intended to carry out a precision strike. That is why it is stealth and terrain hugging and supersonic. For a strategic missile you don't care about stealth because once it reenters it usuallly would spawn into multiple targets. And by the way India doesn't have one. Even latest Agni is hardly capable of reaching China and that too not all parts of China. The Indian LRBM Surya with range of 10,000+km is shelved (apparently under pressure from US).
Anyway but coming back to Brahmos, this is better than anything in its class. I am not aware of if there is any stealth supersonic cruise missile other than Brahmos in the world.
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Originally Posted by donvar
In considering the usefulness, you have to see the usage scenario. In case of India, unlike US, missiles will be only used in case of war with India. Any missile even non nuclear crossing our western border will invite nuclear strike as nobody would want to assume that missile sent was a non nuclear missile.Quote:
Originally Posted by qesehmk
Now coming to Brahmos : It is a cruise missile intended to do tactical/surgical strikes. It should be nuclear enabled to take out deep hidden missile silos of enemy country. I am not impressed with supersonic that too with stealth as it is an overkill. Our neighbors dont have the capability to take down any missile. Our western neighbor is more pragmatic and though has a subsonic but a >1000 KM range Babur cruise missile which can take out our nuclear installations.
I am not interested in Air to Land Brahmos version as aircrafts wont have time to launch an attach unless it is a peremptory strike. I am interested in Land and sea (underwater Sub launched) launched Brahmos. It is precision strike missile and needs to have distance and punch(nuclear) to destroy deep seated installations.
Agni is ballistic missile which are not tactical/precise, it will though take out cities and they are a bigger deterrent than Brahmos.
What you mentioned about mutiple targets is MIRV, its good to have but with only range of 300 KM, totally useless.
I sincerely believe aircrafts will not have a role to play in future war involving missile. Any missile launched will be assumed a nuke missile launched and you got to have air strips intact for aircrafts.
Don't mean to derail the thread but I beg to differ. Saying Brahmos is toothless is a bit extreme. Also, fighter planes will not be irrelevant atleast not in near years. Their roles will change. Case in point - Let us say that an armored column of Paki tanks decide to cross the border and attack Longewala post, will you launch a nuclear missile? or will you send Mirage 2000 with smart bombs? Btw, all the fighter planes buffs should go through Bharat-rakshak.com.... Amazing!
It is really painful. The power of numbers .... what else? Asians on the other hand generally immigration into high skilled areas and as a result don't have numbers on their side.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheTexan
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Originally Posted by donvar
I thought I wouldn't bore other people with this discussion .... but now that Texan has raised it, wouldn't hurt to add a few things:
1. First I do agree that drones have a much better future.
2. However teh process will be a long and drawn since India has so much manpower and we don't have enough money to spend on drones and pilotless aircrafts. That is the reason why we want a 2 seator T20 rather than teh single seator that Russian wants for itself.
3. Supersonic and hypersonic are crucial to keep the element of surprise. Beside then they don't have to carry a larger bomb. The kinetic energy at mach 4-5-6 is huge.
4. MIRV agree is not a concept useful with Brahmos. They are two different things. Brahmos is a terrain hugging cruise missile.
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Originally Posted by TheTexan
Texan I love Bharat-Rakshak.com ..... a lot of military folks do contribute articles there. Inspite of political areas being effed up, Indian defense establishment is still doing its job in the means it has. And while Pakistani defense establishment has been supporting terrorism, their forces are very very professional - afterall both militaries share the same proud history and traditions.
Q,
You are right. Indian armed forces are doing a great job and very professional. She seriously lacks political will, foresight but that is another discussion. Also, you might want to check militaryphotos.net they have some amazing photos or war gizmos :-)
Eventhough i***t politicians trying to make India's military powerless. We are always respected for our might and power. A great website about India's military.
http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/
Vande Matharam!
Nishant while that is ok to say about US; it is not ok to say about your true Laddu. There you have to say "Even if you kick me I will stick around". Just saying .... ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by nishant2200
asankaran,
agree with you.
Q, don't want to miss this. Can someone translate pls?
nishant2200:Quote:
Originally Posted by qesehmk
oh... no. I have always thought that is a stable place based on what I hear(d) from a friend who lives nearby. btw, i heard similar news at a company near the capitol too recently - but this company was expected to go down in their head count based on their industry and the economy.
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Originally Posted by nishant2200
that means..... Marriage sweet...who eat feel bad... Who no eat also feel bad... Bottom line... FEEL BAD!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by visagcinfo
It meant - "Marriage is a Laddu (i.e. sweet) that makes one repent it whether you eat it or not."
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Originally Posted by visagcinfo
My attitude towards GC is: if they keep me, I will keep milking the company; if they kick me out, I will go without complaining. After being cheated by the employer, I didn't work hard for them at all. Don't blame me, because of the frustration by this crazy long wait for GC, I do minimum work and count my pay checks every two weeks. Frankly not a single Indian/Chinese EB2 is happy about the long wait.
If we take things too seriously and put too much efforts into the work, we will be sad when they kick us out. If we don't put too much into it, we won't be too sad because at least we got some easy pay checks and enjoyed a good time here!
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Originally Posted by nishant2200
qbf, you rock! I am becoming qbf's fan :D
18 days to go.
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Originally Posted by qblogfan
haha, thank you, my friend!
I am a big fan of nishant too! :)
I wish good luck to both of us!
If Mr.CO is really crazy, he may publish the VB in Nov.4th! He can do many crazy things! Maybe only 16 days to go! haha :)
Our Indian and Chinese friends have suffered too much from this GC long wait! We have been waiting for so many years and nobody can understand the pain of this process. I wish all of us can get GC ASAP!
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Originally Posted by nishant2200
When things get really tough - remember Sheldon's Law (ref: Foundation series by Asimov, hands down the best Science Fiction out there) - wait until there is only one alternative - take that and then keep waiting until all other alternatives go away and you are again left with just one.
Your destiny is already written - you are only following the script. Enjoy life and just keep doing what is needed - and do that to the best of your abilities. Life is great even without a GC.
BTW - I am India right now - visiting parents for Diwali - and boy its bad in here. I get all the growth, opportunities etc. - but the quality of the day to day life pure sucks. Some observations:
1. I remember traffic as being bad - but the situation now is so awefully bad. New Delhi is bad enough - but smaller cities (I am in Ranchi right now) are even worse.
2. Thullas (cops, I feel compelled to translate everything for QBF - he is by far my favorite non-Guru poster here) are as much a menace as ever - always looking to get petty bribes.
3. Whats with all school/college age kids hanging around on streets/malls during school time??
4. Inflation OMG! Everything costs double than I remembered them from a few years back. So many things are now almost as expensive as they are in US.
5. Saas-Bahu (Monther-In-Law and Daughter-In-Law) dramas are stupid - there seems to be hundreds of them - on at all times of the day. What is even more stupid is that ALL 50+ women I know loves them - they are all in a trance watching them. All my protests about none of the women in those dramas ever studying or working, unreasonable premise of joint families with four generations living in a palace together, unbelievably sexist attitudes of everyone in there etc etc all fall on deaf ears.
I have more - but the power just went off - so got to post before my battery dies.
That is the Truth about India and the real picture. in a nutshell.. lot of my friends gone back thinking India is going to be super power now wants to come back to US. I recommended them to come as International Managers, so that they do not need to wait on this useless queue created to divide Immigrant community!Quote:
Originally Posted by imdeng
Having worked with two of those top 5 from INDIA, one thing I can tell you that coming as international manager is not a easy task. Higher ups know that once you get GC you are going to change the jobs...so they dont want to put all money and effort.Quote:
Originally Posted by immitime
In some other forums, you would be attacked by pack of wolves on expressing your views like this. I totally see where you are coming from. I agree with you, I am glad especially about the saas-bahu part (you totally said what I think), and would put one more point which may apply to some of us, our kids have no future in terms of education, because of reservation. Study entire day and be bookworms and "ratta" (mugging up, remembering word to word textbook without thought) and get 110% points, childhood lost in endless pursuit of a dream which should be a fundamental right of any child who is averagely smart. Because of reservation policies, I feel like I am outcasted from my own country.
We will move digressing posts few time later to other thread, but I could not stop myself from expressing how I completely felt same as you.
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Originally Posted by imdeng
my first post here. could not control myself after reading this. I like the way you put it: "Study entire day and be bookworks and "ratta" and get 110% points, childhood lost in endless pursuit of a dream which should be a fundamental right of any child who is averagely smart. "
Thanks
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Originally Posted by nishant2200
Nishant,
You hit the nail! I am of the exact same opinion.
Haha, I am glad to know I am your favorite non-guru poster!
I think India and China will develop and catch up with the western countries sooner or later. It's just a matter of time. Both countries have huge populations, so it's difficult to turn around and catch up with the west. I think education is very important. In China 2/3 of the population are still in the country side and the education in the country side is pretty bad. I think India is in similar situation.
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Originally Posted by imdeng
haha, I had similar education and childhood.
When I was in middle school from age 12-18, I had to study from 7am-10pm in school, Monday to Sunday noon. The only holiday for us was Sunday afternoon. It was a crazy education system, more like a military camp. The boys and girls were not allowed to have long hair and the girls were not allowed to wear skirts. I didn't have any fun in my middle school. We had to study so much because the college entrance exam was very difficult. Only 20% of my classmates could go to college. The population is huge and the number of colleges is small in China, so the competition is so high. This kind of education system kills students' creativity and the only thing we learnt from school was how to solve equations, how to do exams. It's sad, but it's still going on in China.
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Originally Posted by nishant2200
imdeng i always thought looking at your name that you were chinese!
i think what you say is sad truth. The problem is - you and I try to preach these things to Indians ..... they think we are not Indians anymore and have no business telling them about things in india. These saas-bahu dramas is seriously destroying India families. I have seen first hand here in America some of my friends settled here bringing their mothers from India and then subscribing to Zee and Star etc and these stupid dramas destroying the peace in the house. 10 years younger - I would have said, teh people are to blame for themselves, how can they allow themselves to be influenced. But today my views are different. I think people are a product of the environment they are subjected to.
But all said and done I also know friends who are very happy back home and have no desire to come back. so I guess it depends on what one wants in life.
Anyway enjoy Diwali!! I have missed my diwalis in India since 2000. Missed every single Ganapati since 1996. I envy you :)
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Originally Posted by imdeng
QBF, I seriously am bought into your solution that Indians and chinese need to spread around the world. They simply don't have enough land and resources to sustain them in their respective lands.Quote:
Originally Posted by qblogfan
When i first came to US in 2000....this was my thinking....Ok work hard and be done with your education and in the process if you happen to make some money then so be it.....then once education is done reevaluate where you want to be....Abroad or India.....
Am at a point now where i can be content with my education, but education is never a done deal...it can go on and on....so i will leave it at that and now the reevaluation part...what next stay put in USA or go back....
But unconsciously in the past 10 years we have globalized....to an extent we are globizens now....we may live in one place for small periods at a time but mentally we corelate with other places too. Not sure if this makes any sense to anyone of you......
So NRI's cant settle down in US completely....neither can they settle down in India completely, when you are here you want to be there and when there you want to be here syndrome. ( so goes with other countries too).
Going forward we will have "ties" to a truly 'flat world' as Nandan Nilekani calls it and be well prepared to live anywhere.
So with your kids invest in three languages, English,Spanish and Mandarin.:p
Congrats Monica and pch053 !
Well I agree..I always laugh when anyone from India would just land and say that I will go back after two years.....when they ask me why do i laugh, i simple say wait for a year and then come back and tell me if you still wanna go back....:)
Education + Job ($$$) + Marriage (Q's Laddu) + Home + Kid/s + X = QUAGMIRE
Where X = GC (Must have variable)
Isn't Thomas Friedman who wrote a book 'The World is Flat'??
Have fun.
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Originally Posted by Stemcell
seriously...this is an exact reflection of my thoughts. The quality of life is going down at an incredible place and i am sorry to say that my friends and relatives who have not been outside the US keep equating India to US. And i will be very very glad if we make great progress but getting a cellphone in the hand of every kid is not progress for me. I think of going back but a 3 hour one way commute from NewBombay to Andheri scares me. I love Bombay(Mumbai for those who prefer that, though a maumbaikar i prefer bombay for various reasons) but my bombay is going to the dogs.
Rant over... please delete if inappropriate.
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Originally Posted by nishant2200
Pdmar08
:) I would agree on many of the points. However I am more optimistic about the future. Today in the Transparency International surveys India ranks along with somalia and other countries on the issue of corruption however one strong bill like the Lokpal can set right a lot of things. In the 1970's singapore had a huge crime ridden society and an police force which was hand in glove with the criminals.Today it is squeaking clean thanks to laws that were enacted.
The wild wild west during the time of America's rise was also similar.Education and nation building changed a lot of things. India has many things going for it and change in civic sense and moral values will also happen.
In fact we have an rich heritage to derive inspiration from and atleast the next generation will be better than this one and of course we will be living in a flat world (as mentioned by stemcell ...original quote from David Friedman(nytimes) and later on Nandan Nilekani ) and exchange of ideas and cultures will take place.
Without hope there is nothing to live for . Each to his own . This is an never ending question and there is no perfect return plan that fits everybody.Somebody might be happy here after getting citizenship.Somebody might go back after working a few years after GC.Somebody might just return in 2 years of landing here.
It is not the land where one settles that matters It is just one's inner state which matters for happiness :).
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Originally Posted by Pdmar08
I dont want to start a debate but one thing i agree to GCSeeker for sure is "In fact we have an rich heritage to derive inspiration from"...rest to each his own.
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Originally Posted by gcseeker
You reminded me of the days when it used to take 1 to 1.5 hrs to come from Hiranandani complex to IIT road. ( The distance between these 2 points is hardly 1km )
and then it would take another 2 hrs to reach home.
One of the main reasons I prefer to be in US is commute time/ease and I can spend time with my kid/family.
Otherwise I still love Mumbai,wada-paw,cutting chai,Wills, Kingfisher, list goes on.
Mumbai meri jaan :))
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Originally Posted by Pdmar08
Your wording is really greatQuote:
Originally Posted by gcseeker
In fact we have an rich heritage to derive inspiration from and atleast the next generation will be better than this one
But if you see the facts, next generation is going down without taking inspiration, the Indian Government want to control all the heritage. Yoga was abandoned for a long time, now when the west approved it everyone knows the value, same thing, there are gold mines in our Indian Heritage, Like Vedic Mathematics, Ayurveda, which treates the cause rather than the symptoms! But most of the new generation folks are behind western culture. And do you know one info. in Stanford, they are taking classes in "Kathopanishad" for one chanpter costs you $4000/- our Rishis and Baba's give it free,(I am against fake ones of course majority are nowadays!!:-)) and most of the people condemn it as hum bug. We still need the western approval for everything. Please Think. now some of the folks may jump at me for this writing, but TRUTH some times hurts. For the jumping jacks ... just wait one more decade to realise this!... probably :-)
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Originally Posted by qesehmk
As much as i am proud of my Hyderabadi Hindi, unfortunately i cant make a decent living with Hindi and Sanskrit only these days my friend kaiku boletho...
you have to be Lallo or Mayawati et all for that.:cool:
No seriously the adaptability factory is severely handicapped with these languages......
haha, yes, in the Chinese families, mother in law and daughter in law can't get along either. It's very common in China. It's in all cultures. In the Chinese traditions, young couples have to live with parents, but nowadays it's almost impossible. The young generations have a huge gap with the old generations. I agree that maybe it's a good idea to live seperately when they are in 50s and 60s, but I think young people should help parents when they become really old, like 70s and 80s. I don't like the western culture that young people send their parents into nursing units. It's our responsibility to take care of the old when they lose mobility.
I am glad to know that you like the idea that China and India should move more people out of the countries. I think both countries are over populated and have huge eco and social pressure. At the same time, Canada/Australia/USA have much more resources and the population is small. Of course, the local people want to enjoy the big pie by themselves, that's why NumberUSA was formed to fight againts us.
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Originally Posted by qesehmk
good to see quite a few from mumbai ...born and brought up in mumbai ...still miss it ..evertime i visit first thing i do is visit my good old tapri for some vada pav and cutting chai ..love u mumbai or bombay ..name doesn't matter to me ..
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Originally Posted by codesmith
Man.. Sanskrit is the mother of all languages, you can use the same word for different meaning at different contexts! saying Sanskrit is non adapatable.. is beacuse of lesser information about that language. Even research is going on for computers to use Sanskrit for programming!Quote:
Originally Posted by Stemcell
haha, Yoga is very popular in China. :) Every woman I know is learning Yoga. The Yoga classes in China cost thousands of dollars.
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Originally Posted by immitime
Immitime
Definetly valid points and it is true validation has to come from the west to accept it scientifically. Some examples are
1.Mount Sinai Hospital (One of the most prestigious one's) now has an alternative medicine department ( Yoga/Chi/Accupuncture/Ayurveda) and so do some of the big ones.
2.NIH is spending close to 1B dollars annually in search of medicinal herbs from the himalayan regions. Long Long ago without the help of supercomputers some of our ancestors were able to specify the healing properties of the herbs without even doing lab analysis.Same goes for chinese medicine as well.
3.Close to 10% Americans now follow some form of Yoga in their daily activities.Another 10% easily would be doing Qi Gong/Tai Chi .
In the 1960's and 1970's it took atleast two decades to convince modern medicine of the psycho somatic model of the human body.Till that time it was just an bundle of nerves and muscles.Same way the 1980's saw the emergence of Yoga into the mainstream as an valid method. :) Definetly the wheels turn slowly ,but they will. Some in the next generation will surely leave all of this and some of the others will surely embrace the heritage and the knowledge that comes along with it.
Erwin Schrodinger whose wave equation is the foundation of modern quantum mechanics and is one of the foundationstones of modern solid state physics was inspired originally by the vedantic model of duality.He applied it to wave and particle model of the electron . Even his wikipedia page mentions it quite prominently
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erwin_Schr%C3%B6dinger
Anywaz we would be digressing from the topic at hand .We should talk more in the general section .
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Originally Posted by immitime