Discussion On The Politics of Immigration Reform (Comprehensive Or Otherwise)

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Originally Posted by idiotic

Forming of conference committee does not need majority of majority. He said bringing up the conference report to the house floor wil require majority of majority support.

Again, there are only 80 odd republicans who are saying no to everything to kill the bill.

Majority of members in congress beleive that something needs to be done than letting the current system to continue. If the conference report takes the country forward, I guess we should have that number.

As of now, it is clear that house has enough pressure to put forward their version of solution. Thats what matters right now. Rest of the game is up for toss.

I do agree with most of your other points and it is increasingly diffcult to get something done as time gets delayed. On the other hand, they may also want the final vote on this to be after the primaries.

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Majority of majority is no needed for conference. But I think Boehner will decline similar to Hastert did on 2006 if he thinks that pathway to citizenship will be there in the final bill. It is open secret that if conference means most part of Senate bill will be there in final bill. Still do you think they will allow for conference?

I may be wrong but if my understanding is correct - majority of majority (aka Hastert rule) is applied to tabling a bill. e.g. Boehner invoked that rule to say he can't bring CIR for a vote in congress.

Now he is (at his discretion) extending the same rule to conference. In other words - he says he won't even allow negotiations unless majority of majority wants it.

I think this whole Hastert rule is an shameful rule that allows a minority to hold majority hostage.

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Originally Posted by qesehmk

I may be wrong but if my understanding is correct - majority of majority (aka Hastert rule) is applied to tabling a bill. e.g. Boehner invoked that rule to say he can't bring CIR for a vote in congress.

Now he is (at his discretion) extending the same rule to conference. In other words - he says he won't even allow negotiations unless majority of majority wants it.

I think this whole Hastert rule is an shameful rule that allows a minority to hold majority hostage.

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We cannot say it is completely wrong because it is their immigration policy that 1 They do not want to give pathway to citizenship to illegal immigrants 2. They do not want to increase current immigration level but they want more guest workers. With this policy can they negotiate with senate bill? Problem lies there. Either they need to change their policy or reach compromise

Ramsen - I was no commenting on immigration policy. I was talking about how hastert rule in general is hurting democratic process.

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Originally Posted by Ramsen

We cannot say it is completely wrong because it is their immigration policy that 1 They do not want to give pathway to citizenship to illegal immigrants 2. They do not want to increase current immigration level but they want more guest workers. With this policy can they negotiate with senate bill? Problem lies there. Either they need to change their policy or reach compromise

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Originally Posted by Ramsen

Majority of majority is no needed for conference. But I think Boehner will decline similar to Hastert did on 2006 if he thinks that pathway to citizenship will be there in the final bill. It is open secret that if conference means most part of Senate bill will be there in final bill. Still do you think they will allow for conference?

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Fair point. I would like to be little bit more optimistic though :)

What turns out in the final conference report depends on what the republican solution looks like.

Republican solutions seems to be putting bandaids to where it is currently bleeding. Senate solution is a complete switch to new system. Both are very difficult to conference anyway except for portions like E-Verify, Border Security, etc.

If republican solution is too far right, it would be difficult to get the bill passed through both chambers. Far Left and Far Right elements will not vote for the final centrist solution. Any CIR bill in current climate can only pass with help of centrist people on both parties.

As long as the process is moving forward in the house, there should be a window(may be after the primaries if that makes the final vote easier) where this can be pushed in. We have to wait for the Markups of the actual bills for the republican solution to see if they are keen on moving the process forward at all.

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Originally Posted by idiotic

Fair point. I would like to be little bit more optimistic though :)

What turns out in the final conference report depends on what the republican solution looks like.

Republican solutions seems to be putting bandaids to where it is currently bleeding. Senate solution is a complete switch to new system. Both are very difficult to conference anyway except for portions like E-Verify, Border Security, etc.

If republican solution is too far right, it would be difficult to get the bill passed through both chambers. Far Left and Far Right elements will not vote for the final centrist solution. Any CIR bill in current climate can only pass with help of centrist people on both parties.

As long as the process is moving forward in the house, there should be a window(may be after the primaries if that makes the final vote easier) where this can be pushed in. We have to wait for the Markups of the actual bills for the republican solution to see if they are keen on moving the process forward at all.

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It makes sense to be optimistic if at least democrats are sincere in passing the immigration reform. Looks like they are not. And another aspect is CIR improves the situation but not resolving the issue. CBO report says it will cut illegal immigration 30 to 50% that too after a few years. What is the use for average American citizen due to this? Wage depression for 10 years and improvement after 10 years(That time they will ask for another CIR to give citizenship as 50% illegal immigration will continue). Significant Deficit reduction after 20 years. So this generation will not benefit. The benefit will be for the persons who are immigrants who are suffering due to backlogs and also illegal immigrants. So middle class American will not care much. This drama also to get maximum vote out of 5 to 10% of Latino votes(they are decisive in some places due to narrow win) not for the welfare of USA. If they are reasonable everyone will accept piecemeal immigration bills that will have a clear visibility. Comprehensive means there will be good and bad equally and not giving enough time to remove the bad items

Rep. Jeff Denham (R-Calif.) performing CPR on CIR. :) Some hope... doobte ko tinke ka sahara...

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/1...atino%20Voices

http://www.washingtonpost.com/politi...40e_story.html

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But despite a rush to write the obituary for an overhaul of immigration, Boehner has not closed the door on the issue entirely. The latest lifeline came when Boehner asked Rep. Jeff Denham, R-Calif., to gauge the interest of House Republicans on taking up the contentious issue.

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http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/p...icans/3533455/

now that it seems the CIR dream is over...is there any hope for executive decision by Obama to solve individual action items like EAD for H4 spouse etc?
There is also a rules making process initiated for it. How long does that process take? Also, what is the expected time frame of implementation if the President uses his veto power.

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Originally Posted by iamdeb

now that it seems the CIR dream is over...is there any hope for executive decision by Obama to solve individual action items like EAD for H4 spouse etc?
There is also a rules making process initiated for it. How long does that process take? Also, what is the expected time frame of implementation if the President uses his veto power.

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Obama is planning some executive action. Here is the leaked memo. As for EAD for H4, it is at least a year away according to this memo and only for people who invoked AC21.

There are some other things that affect H1Bs like more grace period, No need for AP if AOS is pending.

http://immigrationlegalblog.com/2013...nge-h4-to-ead/

http://immigrationlegalblog.com/wp-c...leakedmemo.pdf

I guess "it is at least a year away according to this memo" if they follow the rule making process for the item EAD for H4. If the President intervenes and issues executive order then it is implemented immediately. That's my 2 cents.

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Stopping abuse of EB1C will give EB2 their rightful spillover.... Please spread the word !!! Try and mobilize the fight against misuse...

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Originally Posted by PD2008AUG25

Obama is planning some executive action. Here is the leaked memo. As for EAD for H4, it is at least a year away according to this memo and only for people who invoked AC21.

There are some other things that affect H1Bs like more grace period, No need for AP if AOS is pending.

http://immigrationlegalblog.com/2013...nge-h4-to-ead/

http://immigrationlegalblog.com/wp-c...leakedmemo.pdf

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I am a bit confused here. I thought that AC21 comes into picture only AFTER 485 and getting the EAD. Getting EAD means that the spouse is already eligible to work. So how is this executive order making a difference? (I know I am wrong somewhere)

Is there a summary of all the proposed changes in the executive order in this forum?

axe - AC21 has 2 key benefits.
1) Ability to change jobs after filing 485 (post 180 days with an approved 140)
2) Ability to extend H1 indefinitely based on a GC application active at least since 1 year.

It is the second condition that Obama order will help. These people typically have just begun their GC and their spouses can start working. Hope this helps.

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Originally Posted by axecapone

I am a bit confused here. I thought that AC21 comes into picture only AFTER 485 and getting the EAD. Getting EAD means that the spouse is already eligible to work. So how is this executive order making a difference? (I know I am wrong somewhere)

Is there a summary of all the proposed changes in the executive order in this forum?

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by axecapone

I am a bit confused here. I thought that AC21 comes into picture only AFTER 485 and getting the EAD. Getting EAD means that the spouse is already eligible to work. So how is this executive order making a difference? (I know I am wrong somewhere)

Is there a summary of all the proposed changes in the executive order in this forum?

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H1 is for 6 years. To extend H1 beyond 6 years, you need the I-140 to be approved and you can use AC21 to get 3 year extension.

So this rule applies to the candidates who meet the below requirements:
1. H1 holding primary had got I-140 approved
2. H1 holding primary uses the approved I-140 to extend beyond the normal 6 years
3. Spouse is on H4

Jagan - my understanding is that you also extend H1 in 1 year increment with even PERM filed since 1 year. That also is covered under AC21.

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Originally Posted by Jagan01

H1 is for 6 years. To extend H1 beyond 6 years, you need the I-140 to be approved and you can use AC21 to get 3 year extension.

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Q, do you think Obama will pass order for the item EAD for H4?
If Yes, around what time frame do you expect that to be implemented?

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Originally Posted by qesehmk

Jagan - my understanding is that you also extend H1 in 1 year increment with even PERM filed since 1 year. That also is covered under AC21.

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Q,

I agree with you. But most likely people who have PERM filed since 1 year have PERM approved. Also those people would file I-140 in premium and get it approved in 15 days as that gives 3 year extension.

As always, you correctly pointed out the minimum requirement is that PERM should have been pending for at least one year OR PERM should have been approved.

iamdeb - i really don't know the answer to that neither I can think of anything that would allow me to make an intelligent guess !! Sorry.

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Originally Posted by iamdeb

Q, do you think Obama will pass order for the item EAD for H4?
If Yes, around what time frame do you expect that to be implemented?

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Originally Posted by Jagan01

you correctly pointed out the minimum requirement is that PERM should have been pending for at least one year OR PERM should have been approved.

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Yes Jagan. I only pointed out the minimum requirement.

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Originally Posted by Jagan01

H1 is for 6 years. To extend H1 beyond 6 years, you need the I-140 to be approved and you can use AC21 to get 3 year extension.

So this rule applies to the candidates who meet the below requirements:
1. H1 holding primary had got I-140 approved
2. H1 holding primary uses the approved I-140 to extend beyond the normal 6 years
3. Spouse is on H4

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Jagan,

There is no such requirement as mentioned in point No.3 in implementing Ac21 rule to extend H1b beyond 6 years. The spouse can hold a valid H1b while the primary is intend to use Ac21- H1b rule, but only thing is he/she cannot extend his/her H1b against the primary's labor/I-140.

H1b can also be extended in 1 year increment in a situation when 365 days have been passed since the filing of I-140 application.

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Originally Posted by Kanmani

Jagan,

There is no such requirement as mentioned in point No.3 in implementing Ac21 rule to extend H1b beyond 6 years. The spouse can hold a valid H1b while the primary is intend to use Ac21- H1b rule, but only thing is he/she cannot extend his/her H1b against the primary's labor/I-140.

H1b can also be extended in 1 year increment in a situation when 365 days have been passed since the filing of I-140 application.

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Kanmani,

The criteria that I specified was for people to take advantage of EAD for H4 rule. It was not for AC21 only.

I was trying to explain the gist about AC21. The main thing I wanted to point out was that even having I140 approved is not enough if the candidate is in 3 year (any number less than 6).AC21 will only come in picture for 7th year extension.

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Originally Posted by Jagan01

Kanmani,

The criteria that I specified was for people to take advantage of EAD for H4 rule. It was not for AC21 only.

I was trying to explain the gist about AC21. The main thing I wanted to point out was that even having I140 approved is not enough if the candidate is in 3 year (any number less than 6).AC21 will only come in picture for 7th year extension.

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Now I understand.

http://thehill.com/business-a-lobbyi...er-hit-em-hard

Finally the dog is looking to control its tail.. Lets hope it translates to action on immigration

http://rt.com/in-motion/peru-shamans...edictions-014/

2014 is the year. Happy New Year!

In another twist - Indian IT companies it appears may be lobbying against CIR.

http://www.samachar.com/I-would-still-lose-sleep-on-US-Immigration-Bill-Nasscom-chief-Som-Mittal-obcpMwaeegc.html

Regardless ---- happy new year everybody!

http://thinkprogress.org/wp-content/.../JanAgenda.pdf

The floor schedule will include additional items as they are resolved throughout the month. Lookingforward,several outstanding issues may be brought to the floor over the next few months, including:

the Intelligence authorization,flood insurance,as well as legislation related to trade and immigration