Discussion On The Politics of Immigration Reform (Comprehensive Or Otherwise)

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Originally Posted by imdeng

I don't think it is unlikely at all that GOP wins in 2016. At best its a 50:50 crapshoot.

Anyways - the recent escalation in nativist rhetoric in GOP is very alarming. In 2017, GOP may have the presidency along with majorities in the house and the senate. Only think standing between them and anti-immigration legislation will be a democratic filibuster. Its scary.

Posterity will remember how Boehner let go of the best opportunity to do immigration reform. If only he had brought the senate bill to the house floor.

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"at best" ? :)

If the economy improves and people feel financially more secure (i.e. Obama's approval remains at 50%), there is no way GOP can come in. GOP are fear-mongers and they would love to have a situation where they can spook enough independents to vote for them.

As of now, the Democrats have a better shot: the economy is improving and they have a far better candidate.

Saw this petition making rounds online. Thought some members will be interested to sign in support for it.

Thanks!

https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/pet...140-approval-4

Saw this in a tweet message earlier

http://www.morganlewis.com/pubs/sign...ry=/DGc4GcbS2b

Rubio supporting H1B!

Who would've thunk!

http://www.renewoureconomy.org/about/

The pro-immigration advocacy group led by Michael Bloomberg is already shifting its focus to 2017, with a new campaign launching Wednesday focused largely on making the economic case for overhauling the immigration system and giving cover to GOP lawmakers on the issue.

Read more: http://www.politico.com/story/2016/0...#ixzz4GHeiOyzn
Follow us: @politico on Twitter | Politico on Facebook

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Originally Posted by Positive

Totally agree. Perhaps, those involved with advocacy organizations should raise this issue and make enough noise to deter such tendency to misallocate visas. We know they are all into HR392 etc. but pursuing an all or nothing agenda keeps setting us back bit by bit. It is in the interest of all concerned about EB backlogs to stop EB1 from walking away with more than 40,000 visas in a given year unless those visas are FB spillovers. If a fraction of the activism was directed towards making sure that the current laws are obeyed, we would be much better off.

The same diligent USCIS and CO, who carefully advance EB2 by 3 days (seriously!) when not retrogressing EB2 and EB3 to an extent that these categories end up getting up to 3000 to 4000 visas less than their allocation, are (intentionally?) sleeping when EB1 somehow gets more than their share of visas issued. One would think they would be more diligent in making sure that the backlogged categories get every last visa that is properly due to them rather than lending their weight to further weigh the scales against them.

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HR392 is a dead horse they are beating up on. It ain't gonna go anywhere other than the graveyard. The right wing extremes like Freedom Caucus who oppose ALL Immigration including DACA and Legal Immigration are already showing their fangs by destroying the lil bit of good work done by Obama with regards to H4 EAD, OPT and H1B.

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Originally Posted by HarepathekaIntezar

So far EB3 has been robbed of the visas, I don't know if EB2 lost any. But I would hold CO responsible for any such EB Visa robbery. He has the authority to advance the Dates so that no Visas are lost, but has lacked the vision to do so. Wonder why he is revered and regarded so highly by AILA and Q's gurus.

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Previous Administration executive order mandate to use all unused numbers within current FY. This has corrected previous process of leaving the numbers unused even though the demand was available.

I wish filing dates were honored and efficiently used.

Previous administration did more damage than good in my opinion. They misled the backlogged community and did so intentionally and with malice, if not also corruptly . What else can explain all the hoopla about I-140 EAD provision by executive order. The entire farce of the rule making process, and the taxpayer money spent cannot be justified by the narrow scope of its intended beneficiary population. Why would an agency go through rule making to benefit 7 people an year? There were enough provisions in the existing laws to take care of such extreme cases.

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Originally Posted by Positive

Previous administration did more damage than good in my opinion. They misled the backlogged community and did so intentionally and with malice, if not also corruptly . What else can explain all the hoopla about I-140 EAD provision by executive order. The entire farce of the rule making process, and the taxpayer money spent cannot be justified by the narrow scope of its intended beneficiary population. Why would an agency go through rule making to benefit 7 people an year? There were enough provisions in the existing laws to take care of such extreme cases.

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Just because the I-140 EAD provision did not work out to your benefit means the the previous admin did more damage?:rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by HarepathekaIntezar

Just because the I-140 EAD provision did not work out to your benefit means the the previous admin did more damage?:rolleyes:

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Who did it work out for? Oh, yes, the sweat shops. And that wasn't the only damage the Obama admin did. They also added a form J (oh yes, more power to the employers and more begging by the "beneficiaries." And who can forget the visa bulletin reversal, and the whole final action and filing date tamasha. 😬😰😱😳😠

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Originally Posted by HarepathekaIntezar

Just because the I-140 EAD provision did not work out to your benefit means the the previous admin did more damage?:rolleyes:

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Also the influx of illegal immigrant kids to the southern border which ended up overusing EB4 visas. This was the result of Obama giving EADs to the so-called Dreamers.

And H4EAD was not to Obama's credit. It was already in the works. He just took credit for it.


Not can we get back to predictions business please.

No point in arguing with trumpkins. They will support blindly and argue illogically and justify everything including the abolition of H4EAD, Introduction of Interviews for AOS, screwing up the OPT and H1B. They will even support a 'Pathway for illegals' if it suits their argument.

Did we lost some posts between 2016 and yesterday? The thread is now 102 pages, down from 126 pages yesterday.

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Originally Posted by HarepathekaIntezar

Did we lost some posts between 2016 and yesterday? The thread is now 102 pages, down from 126 pages yesterday.

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Nope ...just moved the politics discussion to its own thread :)

The predictions/calculations thread is in its place.

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Originally Posted by qesehmk

Nope ...just moved the politics discussion to its own thread :)

The predictions/calculations thread is in its place.

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Good idea.

There is a draft proposal circulating of the compromise immigration bill to be voted on next Thursday and I have provided a link to it below
2 notable points for EB green cards

1.Increase in total visas available
2.Elimination of per country limitations for EB visas

https://www.mcclatchydc.com/news/pol...213116679.html

However it must be remembered that at this stage this has a very long shot of becoming law. We should still keep our hopes high

No, we should keep our hopes low and if something does happens, it will be a pleasant surprise. The community has seen false hopes raised too many times only to be let down. Not just that, lot of people changed or deferred their plans in such hopes, adding to their misery. Note that Franco Ordonez is a pal of Leon Fresco, the current lobbyist for IV. Among his most notable contributions is very successfully starting fear mongering on proposed abolition of post 6 year H1B extensions earlier this year.

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Originally Posted by gs1968

There is a draft proposal circulating of the compromise immigration bill to be voted on next Thursday and I have provided a link to it below
2 notable points for EB green cards

1.Increase in total visas available
2.Elimination of per country limitations for EB visas

https://www.mcclatchydc.com/news/pol...213116679.html

However it must be remembered that at this stage this has a very long shot of becoming law. We should still keep our hopes high

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From the article:

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Democrats had hopes that a bill more to their liking would get a vote, but that's now unlikely. As a result, Republicans are likely to have a difficult time cobbling together a coalition to pass either bill.

House Democrats were reluctant to back either bill Wednesday. California Reps. Jimmy Gomez and Jim Costa, both Democrats, acknowledged the slim likelihood of getting an immigration deal they would support.

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I think by clubbing any increase in visas the sponsors are guaranteeing that the bill will die without getting a vote.

This is an old tactic by which you get to champion the bill but you also include a provision that will be toxic.

A funny historical tidbit ---- The civil rights act of 1964 was originally written without "gender" being part of non discrimination. The folks opposed to it insisted on including "gender" along with race religion national origin and color. They thought it would make the bill toxic. But surprisingly it got passed and that's how women got their dues and their participation in workforce improved since then!!

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Originally Posted by gs1968

There is a draft proposal circulating of the compromise immigration bill to be voted on next Thursday and I have provided a link to it below
2 notable points for EB green cards

1.Increase in total visas available
2.Elimination of per country limitations for EB visas

https://www.mcclatchydc.com/news/pol...213116679.html

However it must be remembered that at this stage this has a very long shot of becoming law. We should still keep our hopes high

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Originally Posted by Positive

No, we should keep our hopes low and if something does happens, it will be a pleasant surprise. The community has seen false hopes raised too many times only to be let down. Not just that, lot of people changed or deferred their plans in such hopes, adding to their misery. Note that Franco Ordonez is a pal of Leon Fresco, the current lobbyist for IV. Among his most notable contributions is very successfully starting fear mongering on proposed abolition of post 6 year H1B extensions earlier this year.

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I agree with so many false starts for the country cap elimination bills and as of now we do not even know if it will be retained in the final version of the Bill. The last I checked a majority of the House judiciary committee had not signed on as co-sponsors. The general feeling is that both bills will fail to pass with different blocs voting against it in face of unified Democratic opposition. The compromise Bill actually includes all "DACA eligible" population as opposed to the Goodlatte Bill which only covers current DACA recipients. Moreover a bill that is hastily put together in 1 week with no hearings/mark-ups or other due process usually implies low faith in passage. The Senate is a whole different story altogether. President Trump is a wild card also.During the Senate debate he was strongly in favor of Senator Grassley's Bill which received the fewest votes (39 including some mercy votes as it was the last Bill voted on) and he may be reluctant to back a bill if it is doomed to fail.
On a different note the Administration is trying its best legally to finish the program off

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/jus...n-daca-n882471

If the country cap ever gets removed, it will be because of the increasing EB5 china backlog. https://therealdeal.com/2018/06/13/c...millions-back/We all know how money can make things move swiftly. Exhibit A -the astonishing ease with which the tax bill passed to cut corporate tax rates from 35 to 20% with literally non-existent opposition from democrats.

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Originally Posted by Positive

No, we should keep our hopes low and if something does happens, it will be a pleasant surprise. The community has seen false hopes raised too many times only to be let down. Not just that, lot of people changed or deferred their plans in such hopes, adding to their misery. Note that Franco Ordonez is a pal of Leon Fresco, the current lobbyist for IV. Among his most notable contributions is very successfully starting fear mongering on proposed abolition of post 6 year H1B extensions earlier this year.

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I chuckled when you mentioned about Franco Ordonez. I totally bought the fear mongering so much that, I even spoke to a realtor to get my house to the market to sell before everyone else starts selling :p. Luckily, better sense prevailed.

Check this out:

https://judiciary.house.gov/wp-conte...-Act-Final.pdf
https://www.politico.com/f/?id=00000...7-ffddca2e0001

I don't see much to complain about in this bill. But I can surmise that it is a Dead on Arrival Bill, just because of the politics involved with the Wall and the Family Based Immigration issues.

I could not understand how the Per Country Cap works in this Bill. Can someone do some analysis and explain with some examples and illustrations?

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Originally Posted by rohanvus

Ace,

Assuming the worst case (i.e w/o spill over) , i dont see EB2 India crossing 2010 for another five years atleast . If one is newer to this country , choice is clear that this long wait is not worth it. The most difficult situation is for the guys like us who have been more than a decade in this country and with PD hovering around 2011/2012- its very difficult not only because its tough to uproot the family for these folks esp (given the amount of investment they have done here , have kids born here and going to school ,bought homes ,etc.) but also because having a PD around 2011/2012 keeps one always hopeful that its not that far , kinda living a pipe dream . . Btw , my PD is Dec 2011(EB2) and i dont see getting GC in another decade . As i age i am making it almost impossible even to get a Canada PR

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I feel sorry for you. You are right, that's the reality of folks stuck in the dream pipe who have been here since a decade.

I have not seen any positive developments except the mishap caused by the july 2007 bulletin.

We all noticed how DOS backtracked on the oct 2015 bulletin shattering dreams who could file 485. At that point, i realised DOS nor USCIS gave a damn about Immigrants in backlog.

Guys. Fight it in the courts. Advocacy is not going to work. People have wasted way too much time doing advocacy and it has yielded nothing.

Indians must challenge the country quota in US courts. Either they will win or have the US courts affirm this systemic discrimination. I almost guarantee you that the US courts will abolish country quota.

p.s. - The basis for a legal fight is this. Current law uses country of birth to allocate quota. In 99% cases country of birth is akin to nationality. Thus the current USCIS country quota is discriminatory. US does have laws that are against discrimination based on country of origin, ethnicity and how you look etc. Use that to your advantage. Enough said ...

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Originally Posted by rohanvus

Ace,

Assuming the worst case (i.e w/o spill over) , i dont see EB2 India crossing 2010 for another five years atleast . If one is newer to this country , choice is clear that this long wait is not worth it. The most difficult situation is for the guys like us who have been more than a decade in this country and with PD hovering around 2011/2012- its very difficult not only because its tough to uproot the family for these folks esp (given the amount of investment they have done here , have kids born here and going to school ,bought homes ,etc.) but also because having a PD around 2011/2012 keeps one always hopeful that its not that far , kinda living a pipe dream . . Btw , my PD is Dec 2011(EB2) and i dont see getting GC in another decade . As i age i am making it almost impossible even to get a Canada PR

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Originally Posted by altek001

I feel sorry for you. You are right, that's the reality of folks stuck in the dream pipe who have been here since a decade.

I have not seen any positive developments except the mishap caused by the july 2007 bulletin.

We all noticed how DOS backtracked on the oct 2015 bulletin shattering dreams who could file 485. At that point, i realised DOS nor USCIS gave a damn about Immigrants in backlog.

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Originally Posted by qesehmk

Guys. Fight it in the courts. Advocacy is not going to work. People have wasted way too much time doing advocacy and it has yielded nothing.

Indians must challenge the country quota in US courts. Either they will win or have the US courts affirm this systemic discrimination. I almost guarantee you that the US courts will abolish country quota.

p.s. - The basis for a legal fight is this. Current law uses country of birth to allocate quota. In 99% cases country of birth is akin to nationality. Thus the current USCIS country quota is discriminatory. US does have laws that are against discrimination based on country of origin, ethnicity and how you look etc. Use that to your advantage. Enough said ...

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I concur. When DACA illegals have gotten so far. Why can't WE?

Q, the firm who challenged EB5 country cap limit discrimation of counting dependants won the law suit, but its not
in the news. That would be the firm firm to go for, If EB country cap is to be removed.

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Originally Posted by altek001

I concur. When DACA illegals have gotten so far. Why can't WE?

Q, the firm who challenged EB5 country cap limit discrimation of counting dependants won the law suit, but its not
in the news. That would be the firm firm to go for, If EB country cap is to be removed.

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They have only gotten so far as getting a provisional certification to agree to hearing the case on behalf of the entire group of Chinese EB-5 investors instead of each individual investor bring their own lawsuit. The actual caseis yet to be heard or judged.

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Originally Posted by qesehmk

Guys. Fight it in the courts. Advocacy is not going to work. People have wasted way too much time doing advocacy and it has yielded nothing.

Indians must challenge the country quota in US courts. Either they will win or have the US courts affirm this systemic discrimination. I almost guarantee you that the US courts will abolish country quota.

p.s. - The basis for a legal fight is this. Current law uses country of birth to allocate quota. In 99% cases country of birth is akin to nationality. Thus the current USCIS country quota is discriminatory. US does have laws that are against discrimination based on country of origin, ethnicity and how you look etc. Use that to your advantage. Enough said ...

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I have to disagree with you on this. To start with, immigration is a zero-sum game. If the system works fine, no visas are wasted. Also, no one is going to file a law suit. I have seen people giving a lot of advises - show ads on TV, walk out of work etc etc. But in reality, people just get on with life. The only thing Indians have done so far is to tweet and call congressmen and senators and an occasional meeting in the Hill. And with a divided congress and Yoder losing election, the very small chance HR392 had is also gone.

If your PD is beyond 2010, you should consider other options. I don't think many people will survive six more years of Trump administration (assuming he gets re-elected)

I do agree that immigration (quota) is a zero sum game. Also agree that people get on with their life (just like a frog in a boiling water). Also agree that not everybody can survive six more years of trump.

So not sure where the disagreement is iatiam!!

I am suggesting that litigation is the ONLY way EB-I can possibly get out of this misery. Or else status quo is always the option :)

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Originally Posted by iatiam

I have to disagree with you on this. To start with, immigration is a zero-sum game. If the system works fine, no visas are wasted. Also, no one is going to file a law suit. I have seen people giving a lot of advises - show ads on TV, walk out of work etc etc. But in reality, people just get on with life. The only thing Indians have done so far is to tweet and call congressmen and senators and an occasional meeting in the Hill. And with a divided congress and Yoder losing election, the very small chance HR392 had is also gone.

If your PD is beyond 2010, you should consider other options. I don't think many people will survive six more years of Trump administration (assuming he gets re-elected)

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Originally Posted by qesehmk

I do agree that immigration (quota) is a zero sum game. Also agree that people get on with their life (just like a frog in a boiling water). Also agree that not everybody can survive six more years of trump.

So not sure where the disagreement is iatiam!!

I am suggesting that litigation is the ONLY way EB-I can possibly get out of this misery. Or else status quo is always the option :)

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Sorry Q, I cannot agree with you on this. The law is very clear on this regarding country quota. The option to correct the anomaly was HR 3012 through to HR392. We know how the lawsuit against October 2015 visa bulletin was thrown out. The actions to improve the visa allocation and prevent EB visa wastage was the reason FAD/FD concept was introduced then.

After 3 years, USCIS is finally starting to respect Filing date on a regular basis and you are suggesting a litigation attempt which has failed miserably in the past.

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Originally Posted by qesehmk

I do agree that immigration (quota) is a zero sum game. Also agree that people get on with their life (just like a frog in a boiling water). Also agree that not everybody can survive six more years of trump.

So not sure where the disagreement is iatiam!!

I am suggesting that litigation is the ONLY way EB-I can possibly get out of this misery. Or else status quo is always the option :)

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Looks like we agree on most things which is a rarity these days :)

My point is, if laws are followed properly, backlogs would me manageable and suing the government is not an option. No one will do it to begin with and even if we do, it wont help

After hearing the courts verdict on Oct/2015 visa builtin revocation case, I lost faith in the US justice system, I don't think it works for non-citizens. It works fair only for citizens, it's defiantly not for immigrants.


Forget about courts and those who already greened, I bet lot of the people who are close to getting GC or have an EAD, doesn't want to support this idea of challenging country quota in court. Live example one wise person right in this forum, (S)he heard our lament every day, called Oct/2015 case plaintiff as insane.

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Originally Posted by iatiam

if laws are followed properly, backlogs would me manageable and suing the government is not an option. No one will do it to begin with and even if we do, it wont help

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This I can't agree with. Today the demand is way more than the quota. Thus, howsoever lawfully USCIS and DOS work, the backlogs will only grow and never clear or be manageable.

You can only say you won't sue, but don't bet on others not doing it. I hope somebody someday does. They will lose here and there. But I am confident persistence will pay. US is the greatest country for a reason and that reason is Justice for all.

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Originally Posted by AceMan

Sorry Q, I cannot agree with you on this. The law is very clear on this regarding country quota. The option to correct the anomaly was HR 3012 through to HR392. We know how the lawsuit against October 2015 visa bulletin was thrown out. The actions to improve the visa allocation and prevent EB visa wastage was the reason FAD/FD concept was introduced then.

After 3 years, USCIS is finally starting to respect Filing date on a regular basis and you are suggesting a litigation attempt which has failed miserably in the past.

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USCIS is not doing a favor by accepting filing dates. They are doing it as the demand in EB3 is very low.

The current process of allocating EB visas is not by merit. I have experienced Indians in EB2/3 marry Indian women from Nepal and Middle East just for the purpose of skipping in Line. Why there is a loop hole of cross chargeability in EB if merit is supposed to be a level playing field for all? It does not make sense for you to wait a decade longer when your colleague is qualified at the same level or below your expertise.

DACA folks obtained green cards even though just because they were brought without their knowledge and Courts have always been in their favor. WHY?? Because there is a strong lobby of lawyers who fought the case even if Obama bypassed Congress in granting DACA.

In the same manner, We indians need to hire best lawyers to challenge EB discrimination (just as Q said) for the courts to acknowledge the insanity and Archaic laws of EB visa allocation. Enough Said...!!

The law firm challenging EB-5 discrimination (counting of dependents in EB5 limit) is Kurzban, Kurzban, Weinger, Tetzeli and Pratt, P.A.

https://www.kktplaw.com/

It's now or never to file a law suit as with current movement, EB2 Indian folks with PD 2009 and 2010 will wait atleast 5 years to get Green cards. My understanding is based on number of PERM filings in FY09/10.

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Originally Posted by altek001

The law firm challenging EB-5 discrimination (counting of dependents in EB5 limit) is Kurzban, Kurzban, Weinger, Tetzeli and Pratt, P.A.

https://www.kktplaw.com/

It's now or never to file a law suit as with current movement, EB2 Indian folks with PD 2009 and 2010 will wait atleast 5 years to get Green cards. My understanding is based on number of PERM filings in FY09/10.

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https://www.law360.com/articles/1094...visa-cap-fight

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Originally Posted by AceMan

Sorry Q, I cannot agree with you on this. The law is very clear on this regarding country quota. The option to correct the anomaly was HR 3012 through to HR392. We know how the lawsuit against October 2015 visa bulletin was thrown out. The actions to improve the visa allocation and prevent EB visa wastage was the reason FAD/FD concept was introduced then.

After 3 years, USCIS is finally starting to respect Filing date on a regular basis and you are suggesting a litigation attempt which has failed miserably in the past.

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Respectfully Aceman to my knowledge nobody has ever challenged country quota as discriminatory and filed a lawsuit based on that. Tell me if I am wrong.

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Originally Posted by qesehmk

This I can't agree with. Today the demand is way more than the quota. Thus, howsoever lawfully USCIS and DOS work, the backlogs will only grow and never clear or be manageable.

You can only say you won't sue, but don't bet on others not doing it. I hope somebody someday does. They will lose here and there. But I am confident persistence will pay. US is the greatest country for a reason and that reason is Justice for all.

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" Justice for all" was until the day Trump got elected. Now US is laughing stock of the world.
This country has welcomed immigrants from 1700s .it has to stop at some point? The population has increased by 30 % in last 30 years.. A sensible nation has to do something about it?
Im also waiting for GC for a long time.
I see FB as big culprit, it also needs a merit process . majority of FB provides work force to retail industry.

In one of the interview Kurzban said, they wanted to just fight for the EB5 for now and if they win the EB5 law suite, the rest of the EB categories follow EB5, not sure what that means, the dept automatically applies the same rule to other categories or they amend the law suite to have other categories or file a separate law suite.