Discussion On The Politics of Immigration Reform (Comprehensive Or Otherwise)

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Originally Posted by rupen86

Their goal right now seems to be passing something so that they can claim that they have done something. If it can be reconciled with senate and become a law is least of their worry.

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True. Caveat is their bill needs to have some "heart" to gain over the latino voters for sure. Otherwise, it is as good as passing nothing. That's why it will be a bill which will be "conferencable"

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Originally Posted by axecapone

http://firstread.nbcnews.com/_news/2...ate-obama?lite

"Trusting Barack Obama with border security is like trusting my daughter with Bill Clinton," he said.

Ouch!! That was blunt.

Sorry if this is a repeat question but I don't understand why the senate is so opposed to "Enforcement first and legalization later". To me, that sounds fair. I mean cant they just put a trigger in place that states that if border security does not meet certain xyz conditions, legalization process is ruled out. In any case, the current CIR bill requires illegal immigrants to wait 10 years before starting their process. Its just a matter of adding a trigger to their bill.

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They get RPI (legal) status immediately without triggers. That's the issue.

My perfect solution would be RPI for 5 yrs - renewable once.
Triggers before LPR incl border fence, entry/exit and EVerify implemented AND all legals have gotten their GC first.
Citizenship 5 yrs after LPR

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Originally Posted by idiotic

True. Caveat is their bill needs to have some "heart" to gain over the latino voters for sure. Otherwise, it is as good as passing nothing. That's why it will be a bill which will be "conferencable"

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Bohner told many times that even compromise bill from conference committee needs to have the support of majority of majority. That rules out any bill which has special pathway to citizenship for illegal immigrants. It is likely that Hastert rule will kill the bill.

I came across this interesting article.House Democrats also seem to have a problem with excessive border security provisions in Senate Bill

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...e-vote/?page=1

Earliest possible vote in House is in September on Rep McCaul's border security Bill

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Originally Posted by gs1968

I came across this interesting article.House Democrats also seem to have a problem with excessive border security provisions in Senate Bill

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...e-vote/?page=1

Earliest possible vote in House is in September on Rep McCaul's border security Bill

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I agree with the House Democrats. I think throwing money at the border is not going to make it more secure. I'd rather they throw that money at eVerify and Entry/exit systems and expedite those. But as long as the bill moves forward, I don't care about all these details :)

This article is discussing what I was asking earlier. It is Leadership vs Representatives. If Boehner has courage to live up to the occasion and leave his love for the job behind, it would be good for the party and country.

http://www.ibtimes.com/immigration-r...roblem-1342483

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Originally Posted by Ramsen

Bohner told many times that even compromise bill from conference committee needs to have the support of majority of majority. That rules out any bill which has special pathway to citizenship for illegal immigrants. It is likely that Hastert rule will kill the bill.

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Political posturing. He has gone back on those words several times on other bills to get them passed in the larger interest of party. Once an immigration bill comes out of conference committee, it will defnitely pass both houses, if it gets thus far. Otherwise, they will never fix this issue for years to come unless either party gains control of all 3 legislative bodies(house/senate/white house), which is very bleak.

Good summary of 5 reasons why immigration reform has problems in the house.

http://www.cnn.com/2013/07/11/politi...ngs/index.html

Pelosi On Immigration Reform: We’ll Save Hardball For Later. She is giving the hint that she would reserve the option of discharge petition for later.

http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2...-for-later.php

Different take on gloom and doom on immigration reform.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/0...n_3573669.html

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Originally Posted by rupen86

This article is discussing what I was asking earlier. It is Leadership vs Representatives. If Boehner has courage to live up to the occasion and leave his love for the job behind, it would be good for the party and country.

http://www.ibtimes.com/immigration-r...roblem-1342483

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It's unfair to expect Boehner to sacrifice his job by going against the will of his caucus. He has done his job in clearly saying the fact that party will be much weaker if they do not act in a meaningful way. Blame the Tea party if nothing happens out of it in the end and not Boehner.

The fundamental issue is that USA is very wide sharing miles of border with Mexico. So border security under any president is not going to easy to solve. I think the measures in the Senate bill are reasonable. Its unfair to compare CIR with the Reagen's bill because that was a 100% pure amnesty bill.

I don't think E Verify is going to work either all by itself. Even if you mandate it, its the job of E Verify to conduct audits to find if an employer is hiring illegal immigrants. That requires man power and whole lot of other resources. That will collapse once you are talking about farming, meat processing and other commodities industries. E Verify will work well only if border is secure and US border is not easy to secure.

So if everything is going to be pinned on border security, there is no hope of CIR even in 2025.

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Originally Posted by idiotic

It's unfair to expect Boehner to sacrifice his job by going against the will of his caucus. He has done his job in clearly saying the fact that party will be much weaker if they do not act in a meaningful way. Blame the Tea party if nothing happens out of it in the end and not Boehner.

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I don't agree. The leader is always held accountable. Agreed he may not win the battle but he needs to go beyond talk. For every positive statement he has made, he has 5 negative statements. If Paul Ryan has the stones to be an advocate why can't Boehner be a leader and drive some of the process rather than be driven by the nut jobs.

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Originally Posted by axecapone

The fundamental issue is that USA is very wide sharing miles of border with Mexico. So border security under any president is not going to easy to solve. I think the measures in the Senate bill are reasonable. Its unfair to compare CIR with the Reagen's bill because that was a 100% pure amnesty bill.

I don't think E Verify is going to work either all by itself. Even if you mandate it, its the job of E Verify to conduct audits to find if an employer is hiring illegal immigrants. That requires man power and whole lot of other resources. That will collapse once you are talking about farming, meat processing and other commodities industries. E Verify will work well only if border is secure and US border is not easy to secure.

So if everything is going to be pinned on border security, there is no hope of CIR even in 2025.

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No solution is going to work all by itself. It has to be a combination of things. You prevent illegals from coming in and make sure people who are supposed to leave actually go. Then you taken away the reason why people come here in the first place - work.

I agree that audits and such are going to be tough in certain industries. Same thing with day labor where they get paid with cash (like today). but you can't say its tough so we won't do it at all.

Hope for CIR is in the genuine belief that people want to do the right thing for America and not just for themselves. There are certain people who truly don't want reform and then there are others who want reform but are afraid for their jobs. Cant blame the latter category but until that changes, its going to be tough sledding. I think the only real chance for CIR is the House Democrats taking matters in their own hands. Otherwise, its going to die. No House votes will happen till Sept and then things will drag on till the Christmas recess. Nothing will happen in any lame duck session and before you know it, its election season.

I really wish, the Republican party splits up because they are killing themselves. I personally am a fiscal Republican and a social Democrat. But if the Republican party splits in to more centrist folks (the Lincoln Republicans) and the nut jobs (aka Tea Party), then I might actually shift my thinking. I'm sure there are a LOT of immigrants who think that way. Most immigrants IMO are open minded to reality but deep down are conservative on certain issues. I'll get off my soap box now. thanks for listening :)

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Originally Posted by idiotic

It's unfair to expect Boehner to sacrifice his job by going against the will of his caucus. He has done his job in clearly saying the fact that party will be much weaker if they do not act in a meaningful way. Blame the Tea party if nothing happens out of it in the end and not Boehner.

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He is the only person who can bring the bill for vote and he is surrendering to tea party not because he agrees with them but because he wants to keep his job. It is ok for normal person to behave that way but having hold such a post, this behavior does not make him good speaker when he himself has agreed with immigration reform as a good thing. On the other hand, GOP leadership should provide him cover and enable him to bring bill for a vote if they believe it is a good thing for the party.

GOP leadership (McConnell) is more concerned about making Obama fail than anything else. Not immigration bill, not jobs bill, not anything else really.

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Originally Posted by rupen86

On the other hand, GOP leadership should provide him cover and enable him to bring bill for a vote if they believe it is a good thing for the party.

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Originally Posted by rupen86

He is the only person who can bring the bill for vote and he is surrendering to tea party not because he agrees with them but because he wants to keep his job. It is ok for normal person to behave that way but having hold such a post, this behavior does not make him good speaker when he himself has agreed with immigration reform as a good thing. On the other hand, GOP leadership should provide him cover and enable him to bring bill for a vote if they believe it is a good thing for the party.

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I feel the Boehner is consistenet with his stance. He supports immigration. Immigration is a collective term for illegal immigration and legal immigration. Boehner just said he supports immigration. This does not mean he supports citizenship for undocumented.

It is not correct to hold him accountable.

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Originally Posted by rupen86

Pelosi On Immigration Reform: We’ll Save Hardball For Later. She is giving the hint that she would reserve the option of discharge petition for later.

http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2...-for-later.php

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Getting 50% vote for moving discharge petition is also tough. If we can think about it then the republicans in the house surely can also think about it. Democrats need at least 17-18 republicans to move the discharge petition.

I had a question about the piecemeal approach. I am sure Republicans will pass all that is in the Senate bill for skilled workers like us. In the event they go to conference with differences only on path to citizenship of undocumented workers, then what will be the outcome of conference ?

Can the conference pass at least the part that both Dems and Repubs agree upon ?

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Originally Posted by rupen86

He is the only person who can bring the bill for vote and he is surrendering to tea party not because he agrees with them but because he wants to keep his job. It is ok for normal person to behave that way but having hold such a post, this behavior does not make him good speaker when he himself has agreed with immigration reform as a good thing. On the other hand, GOP leadership should provide him cover and enable him to bring bill for a vote if they believe it is a good thing for the party.

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Tell me clearly what do you want Boehner to do :

=> Bring S.744 to house vote immediately. (This cannot procedurally happen because we all know Reid has not yet sent S.744 to house yet. Formal reason is all revenue bills must originate from House)
=> Bring House republicans bill (CIR equivalent -- bunch of piece meal bills solving the immigration problem).. (This is what is going on now except that the piecemeal bills are not complete and there are problems which are completely unaddressed yet)
=> Do nothing and let immigration reform die (He did not do that clearly even though it may be tea party stance.)

Also remember immigration reform is one of the problems for Boehner not the "only" problem. For someone to suggest he has to put his job on line for one issue is unfair. He has to mediate solutions for all issues and get some legislation done for the country. That is his job.

Guys ... my quick opinion on Boehner and then I will shut on Boehner.

Boehner is absolutely inconsequential. He just doesn't have anything in him. Show me one legislation where he rallied his troops and/or worked across the aisle to make anything happen. Show me one example.

So don't even waste time talking about Boehner. It's McConnell and other GOP stalwarts who will move things. Luckily McCain and the Bush Jr have thrown their weight behind CIR (McCain directly - Bush Jr indirectly). So work positively and make calls to republicans congressmen in your district and ask them to support CIR.

Better yes ... somebody write a letter and post to this forum for everybody to print and sign and send to your congressman - regardless which party. The severely backlogged folks are 50K or more. If 50K letters go to congressmen... it is very powerful.

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Originally Posted by idiotic

Also remember immigration reform is one of the problems for Boehner not the "only" problem. For someone to suggest he has to put his job on line for one issue is unfair. He has to mediate solutions for all issues and get some legislation done for the country. That is his job.

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This is the standard excuse by the Congress. They say priority is economy, jobs and debt. I want to know what they have passed so far. The previous Congress had the reputation of being the most unproductive one in its history (or atleast one of the most unproductive ones if my facts are incorrect) and this one is not far away from beating that goal.

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Originally Posted by axecapone

This is the standard excuse by the Congress. They say priority is economy, jobs and debt. I want to know what they have passed so far. The previous Congress had the reputation of being the most unproductive one in its history (or atleast one of the most unproductive ones if my facts are incorrect) and this one is not far away from beating that goal.

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What does this has to do with the original question that "Tell me what you want Boehner to do"?

To fight for high skilled immigration backlog and lose his job ??

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Originally Posted by idiotic

What does this has to do with the original question that "Tell me what you want Boehner to do"?

To fight for high skilled immigration backlog and lose his job ??

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If he loses his job by bringing the bill to floor, he is still a winner. He might loose his job, but will be remembered as the bold speaker who sacrificed his job for betterment for the immigrants. I am sure millions who will be legalized by this bill will remember him in their lifetime and generations to come.

What would he want ? A short term job or a legacy ?

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Originally Posted by idiotic

What does this has to do with the original question that "Tell me what you want Boehner to do"?

To fight for high skilled immigration backlog and lose his job ??

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Fight for high skill immigration ? That's a joke. No one would even fight for high skill immigration. Forget about fighting for that and loosing job. I am asking him to fight for his party and nation if he feels it is going to be beneficial which he has said it is.

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Originally Posted by qesehmk

So work positively and make calls to republicans congressmen in your district and ask them to support CIR.

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Which CIR are you taking about ?

You can call the congressmen and tell your story and what you think would help. I personally think individual stories will have more impact over the robotic repeated message suggested by a well known site, but I could be wrong.