Printable View
NJ - this is not a small bill by any means. It will fundamentally change the immigration pattern and accelerate browning of America, something current president and his followers are staunchly opposed to.Quote:
Originally Posted by NJMavarick
As per Durbin video - haven't seen it and I find it hard to believe he would mock an entire community. Have you seen it? Please post a link so all people see this and make their own judgement.
Yes - I saw the video where a paper green card was handed over by antis S386 bill (i.e read it was an Iranian) to Durbin who was laughing and making a mockery of the plight of the backlogged folks. It was all over the immigration forums. I am unable to find the link now.Quote:
Originally Posted by qesehmk
To your point of browning of America, this bill just gives GCs to people who are already here. If they want to stop the browning then its not this bill, they need to stop H1B. People are already here and just waiting in the endless cycles of H1B extensions. No H1B, no GCs.
I have seen it too, it was not fair for any one to act like that, specially being under oath of upholding American constitution.Quote:
Originally Posted by NJMavarick
Link available in this article.
https://www.hindustantimes.com/world...V7YpKuLPK.html
Also, read 29th amendment to the constitution of the US. It forces Congress to face the mathematical realities of immigration policy as an integral component of population management policy, instead of only viewing it as “our heritage” or as some kind of fulfillment of an unspoken promise to the rest of the world.
Another document is the Declaration of Independence, which contains these words:
"We hold these truths to be self evident, that all men are created equal."
Those words did not free the slaves, but they started a movement for equal rights for all Americans but not for "all men" meaning anyone born in the world.
There is no solution to this hypocrisy. Enjoy what you have today !!!
Yes, I saw the Durbin video. Unbelievable and openly mocking and racist. The Democrats are just as racist as the Republicans. They just hide it better.Quote:
Originally Posted by qesehmk
I think people are getting caught into style vs substance. But I will leave it to individuals to look up the video and judge. What I see is that Durbin's simply said thank you to the person who gave him a mock green card. It was in poor taste but not racist.
On the other hand - the current president has openly said he does not welcome immigration from $hit--- countries and Norway would be fine. That is text book racist.
People like me are already past the pain of GC. Those who are suffering you know your own interests best. You all are extremely capable, accomplished, and independent people. So I don't mean to lead you into any direction. I wish you all godspeed to your Green Card, Freedom, and justice.
Thank you Q! We totally get your point of view and are grateful for this forum. All I am saying is that we have idiots on both sides of the aisle.Quote:
Originally Posted by qesehmk
BTW, this pandemic is only going to make things more worse. Once the corona virus issue fades off, we might be staring at a recession. About this bill, we are pretty close to the finish line (I think) and Durbin has all the cards.
I think everybody should read how unanimous consent works. I remember how McCain's immigration bill could not be passed by a simple majority. What chance this has to get a unanimous consent? Just use some common sense. This makes me believe firmly that IV is only showboating. They don't understand nothing about senate business and games. I doubt if they are really at the table. I think republicans are playing them like a drum.Quote:
Originally Posted by NJMavarick
As I said ... all of you just go and read unanimous consent and how it is usually used for trivial things to lessen senate burden and not used to really push through serious legislation (unless it is of course national emergency like corona virus).
I have been been getting conflicting reports from the Telegram groups where it seems Lee is no longer willing to do anything further due to further changes requested by Durbin. Not sure how much of this is true. IV seems to have been renegated to just a front to pass on the news. I do not think they have any leverage. While I am confident that the Senators understand the severity but it is unclear if they would decide to action upon it. At this point I do not see this going anywhere due to the corona virus issue.Quote:
Originally Posted by qesehmk
IMO, the bill summary says unused greencards from 1992 to 2020. The last number gives me shivers. With general republican opposition for more GCs, the bill may get amended with taking this year's unused GCs and give it to healthcare professionals. Durbin may also have a vested interest in doing so.
When S386 got close over second half of last year, I was surprised by lack of general opposition to it from Democrats.
After all wasn’t it the goal to tie Daca Dapa and other programs with Backlogged to give it a shape of Comprehensive reform. Without backlogged folks it would like a bill for Illegal immigrants.
How can something so important be dropped without any apparent reason?
Did they simply lose interest, or the lone opposition to the bill actually represents a much bigger set of people who just don’t want to be seen?
It was very explicit understanding between the groups. When DACA was brought up earlier in the year, the agreement was IV would support it and stand back without lobbying to derail the bill. Regardless of outcome, those groups will support and not derail our bill. This came into being after it was tried and it seemed like DACA alone may pass. If it was possible to combine the two, it would have been.Quote:
Originally Posted by excalibur123
Nothing happens on the hill without alliances and agreements. This new bill is DOA for the same reason and is for optics. Nurses, who don’t quality for any temp work visas getting GC before NIW researchers, scientists and PHDs? What about people working in medical devices industry, physical therapy, defense etc? If you look at the history, there has never been any area where government choosing the winners and losers through immigration. They can get some reserved for some time, but this large scale reservation to only doctors and nurses will not fly.
Sen. Durbin is trying to split the immigrant community and pit them against each other. He is pointing to DACA but ignoring the people already backlogged for decades. His hope is we will start attacking the DACA group, which he can use to wiggle his way out of the bill. There is a reason why there is no more opposition from any dems other than one.
When recapture was brought up in 2008, it was flatly rejected by some republicans and a few dems as well, for different reasons. The political climate was a lot better at that time. Now it is highly partisan.
Regardless if this bill passes, it is good for all. Now there would be no hiding behind “Healthcare will be impacted if 386 passes” excuse.
Thanks for the response. You seem to be more aware of how IV is operating, so I will take that though I find it unconvincing because the larger goals of Democrats have still not been met.Quote:
Originally Posted by eaglenow
On the other hand, passing this bill related to health care could be a masterstroke - because of its timing and that it separates physicians from rest of the crowd. Also in current situation (or possibly in all situations) it will have little opposition. While I do feel physicians do deserve this, this sword has the second edge of telling other backlogged folks that they are less deserving and therefore they will not recapture visas for them.
It is difficult to build opposition against Nurses in times of pandemic. Second, any country has the choice to mark some occupations as shortage occupations (as it already happens in other countries) - so by same concept Nurses are currently more important than Math or Physics PHDs and researchers. Lastly this is just the starting position, they may alter this based on some objections and include some other deserving groups you have mentioned. Therefore I feel it has strong possibility of passing - the optics of favoring doctors and nurses are awesome even in times of partisan politics - it was just never taken up before.
Lastly I think IV over-reached significantly with S386. Whatever be the numbers, whatever be the history and whatever be the principle they want to enforce - the solution which bars nearly all other kinds of nationalities or professions, is both short-sighted and dangerous. I had alluded the same to one of my past comments last year. S386 just doesn't pass the common-sense test. It would have been better if they had aimed for something more palatable and less objectionable. (e.g. max wait time - like say 8 yrs for EB3, 5 for EB2, 3 for EB1 - I know most EB-I folks would take that, for that brings certainty to the process.)
Once again I see unnecessary blamegame and dragging Durbin's name. I would urge you to please stop this nonsense. We have debated this many times.
IV clearly has oversold their reach on the hill and have been played by the republicans. Enough said.
As per this new bill by Durbin here are some facts:
1) Nurses already fall under EB3. Most of them come from philippines using CP.
2) The nurses backlog has already been substantially reduced. So they will have to make substantial efforts to recruit nurses from around the world if they really want to use all their desired quota.
3) This has a fair chance of passing given the urgency around covid situation which will persist for next 18 months (according to resp. disease experts).
4) This bill does not steal a single visa from EB. Rather it will give away visas to other categories as well as create more room in EB by removing the backlogged doctors and nurses.
Bottomline - this bill is at the least harmless and very useful at best. No reason to badmouth Durbin. To my knowledge no serious legislation is ever accomplished through UC. Prove me wrong.
Not sure who are you directing this to. No badmouthing or blame in my post. It is pretty balanced - and has same points as yours.Quote:
Originally Posted by qesehmk
I take it you have never been to any advocacy events. I don’t mean that in a negative way. I generally see references to IV as one or two people. There have been hundreds of volunteers who did thousands of meetings over the past decade. So my request is please don’t dismiss the efforts so easily by saying they overreached.Quote:
Originally Posted by excalibur123
No one is barring anyone. In fact in the current system, Indians are barred essentially due to country caps. The core issue is insufficient GC numbers, but it is not highlighted because the entire brunt of the issue is borne by Indians. So any relief will naturally benefit Indians first and only those who are already waiting.
And the new bill treats everyone the same, including Indians who apply after the bill is passed. How is it dangerous to request you be treated fairly and not based on your country of birth. Are you representing your country or is your country applying?
I am not being condescending. The fact that requesting equality and being treated the same is seen as overreaching is a failure on the part of our community. This negotiating with ourself is the reason we are in this backlog.
For example look at the Iranian students. They came here recently and already they are already advocating against this bill. Right or wrong they even go to the extent of impersonating US citizens and spreading misinformation against the bill. They do not want everyone to be treated equally. They do not want to wait for 2 years to get EAD. They are not even willing to agree to the bill with the do no harm and transition provisions.
In the latest version, visas are reserved for non backlogged who already have approved 140. Even if the bill passes this fiscal year, they will get GC in worst case of 2 years, for the most past earlier than that. They are not ready to compromise even for that. Here we are, in a backlog of more than a decade and saying why not ask for GC after 8 years.
Here is the issue. You cannot ask for special treatment on the hill, plain and simple. So what is being asked for is equality. And that equality also is not from day one. There is a transition of 9 years. Till that time, there are some visas reserved for non backlogged folks as well. That is aside from Nurse reservation. So this bill is as fair as it gets.
As for your suggestion about the easy fix of requesting GC after some time is not easy at all. What you are asking for is unlimited GCs. I strongly recommend people go to advocacy events and see for yourself what goes on in the hill. You will be surprised.
I hope this did not come across as condescending, that is definitely not the intent.
Sorry. I should have referred to @eaglenow and @rocket... i was not responding to you.Quote:
Originally Posted by excalibur123
Disagreements are welcome on our blog. Where people differ nuggets of wisdom are born.
I was responding to smearing a perfectly good senator. Durbin is not at all anti immigrant or anti Indian. So dont understand how smearing him serves backlogged community?
Unnecessary blame game and dragging? Nonsense? I was just explaining what is going on. I am sorry you feel this is nonsense. He has a hold on 386, which can pass but for his hold. His reasoning is that others will have to wait longer.Quote:
Originally Posted by qesehmk
Given the new provisions, anyone with approved 140 from row will GC in 2 to 3 years. Also in 2 years from 140 approval, everyone can file 485 regardless of dates being current and will get EAD till they get GC. There is a transition of 9 years (reserved visas for row) with separate reservations for nurses. This is the same thing he agreed on principle, but is not ready to accept the bill because of removal of do no harm and wait time of 2 years for filing 485.
These 2 changes were specifically requested by agencies as do no harm provision was vague and could not be implemented by them easily. Hence the reservations were increased for the first few years effectively achieving the same. This is the implementing do no harm provision for row. And waiting for 2 years to file 485 is not onerous either, which was requested by agencies due to anticipated workload and new regulations needed to be implemented. Now these rules apply for everyone including Indian applicants.
He is opposing the bill because it will increase wait time for row. Mind you, he is talking about people waiting for a couple of years and about those who are not even in the country yet. But he is fine with Indians not getting GC in their lifetime and feels it is ok to keep the people who are waiting for a decade in backlog. And he is reasonable? Why is it ok for Indians to not even get ead for decades but others should not wait for 2 years? Why is it ok for Indians to wait multiple decades but no one else should have to wait for a few years?
Look at his tweets. He tweets about DACA folks helping with coronavirus. I fully agree and support. Where is the similar tweet for backlogged folks? Also, only doctors and nurses are at the forefront is not the full truth. What about all the other supporting staff? What about tech folks who keep all related technology running during these times? What about medical devices company employees and supply chain folks and others who are essential during these times?
But he wants to pass larger bills by increasing GC numbers so that row folks who are not in the country yet are not impacted. He is worried about people who are not in the country yet and is willing to keep existing backlogged folks waiting till the right solution is found. Regardless of how many years or decades it takes.
And the worst part is there is nothing stopping the senator from passing this bill and working on the other bills he wants to champion.
Regardless, This is your site my friend, so your rules. And you seem to take offense to calling out the bad wolf. So I will refrain henceforth.
I like your mike drop moment, but no one has been played by anyone. If you think IV sides with republicans or democrats, you are mistaken. You will never get anywhere on the hill if you take sides. Observe carefully and IV is not attacking any party or siding with any party.Quote:
Originally Posted by qesehmk
And there is no oversold reach. In fact there is no reach. You just keep working till you get your bill passed. That is how every bill is passed on the hill. What you read about in news is after several years of backend work. Look at DACA. Everyone, other than core anti immigrants agree with the bill and yet it has not passed, why? And if you think DACA came about recently, you would be mistaken. Every single wording and messaging is refined and honed over years (for eg. undocumented vs illegal, DACA kids etc)
I agree with all your points about nurses, but what I mentioned is also true. Nurses do not qualify for any temp work visa and hence the direct recruitment. Nursing requires only 2 year certification course. And my suggestion is please read up on Nurse staffing companies and how they operate. They are no different from and in many cases worse than predatory IT bodyshops.
Mark my words, if this bill passes, you will see a lot of folks do the certification course in US and abroad and will start coming in through that. So the numbers would fill out pretty quickly. This will also include IT folks in backlog.
And finally, this bill increases GC numbers through recapture. This will require offset from FB or removal of diversity visa or eating into existing eb quotas.
With all due respect, smearing a perfectly good senator? Here are the things the good senator has done.Quote:
Originally Posted by qesehmk
1. Blocked the bill he cosponsored in 2011, when it included relief for Irish relief provisions. Literally the same bill without the provisions was blocked by him.
2. Couple of days before the bill was brought to the floor, he held a “constituent tea” in DC. When our folks went, his staff checked every single Id to make sure they are from IL. Then suddenly a group of Iranian students came and were all let in without any checking. That was the time they joked about GC and waiting for it for a long time.
3. Actively sought support from other dems to block the bill, but could not get anyone else to support.
4. Tried to get other groups to oppose the bill, which most did not take up, when finally AMA took up his offer.
5. When negotiations were on, his office kept leaking the discussions to derail, which was in vain. So insisted on keeping the negotiations private and not including anyone else.
6. When a deal was reached, Sen. Lee wanted to socialize the deal to get inputs from others. But the good senator tried to get it on the floor hoping for some republican to oppose the bill. After a sustained calling effort, he let it go.
7. Based on inputs from others when minor modifications were made and discussions were still going back and forth, they leaked the contents once again in an effort to derail the bill.
8. Now the good senator does not want the minor changes and wants to get the bill he negotiated without input from others to be brought to the floor or no bill at all.
9. Even for DACA, when there was a deal almost on the verge, he talked about the Shithole countries comments from the president to the reporters, when everything went south from there.
As a disclosure, except for point 1, others are things I read about from others posts or articles. I was not there in person for those. So take it with a grain of salt.
But what is certain is at this time he is the only senator who has publicly held the bill. So unless he releases the bill or someone else also publicly objects, no one else is holding the bill from a public perspective. Another fact is based on his reason for holding the bill, he seems to be fine with Indians getting the short end of the stick in the zero sum game but does not want others to share the burden. Another fact is there is nothing stopping the senator from passing this bill and working on increasing GC numbers so no one is impacted.
But since you feel the senator should not be called out, I will refrain going forward.
My friend we have debated durbin to death. Just read prior comments. Unless you have something new to add, it's a waste of time to discuss any further. Also this whole concept of "country caps being the culprit behind EB-IC backlog and the need for fairness and justice" is something I proposed at least 10 years back. Advocacy is not as difficult thing as you make it out. Anybody with 2600 dollars can get a meeting with a senator or congressman. It is no big deal. Senators congressman are always looking to create new bills in their names and that too is not a big deal. That's their job. What would be a big deal is to show some grey matter and work across parties and corporations and american public to create a common understanding and agreement. That actually shouldn't be difficult to do. FB is where the American public is more upset. They can hate H1B and GC folks but the balance of power is different. But as I said IV is too thick skilled to understand nuances. It's a pity. They got played.
I have never shied away from a debate. But you have arrived late on the scene. We already discussed this and you have nothing new to add.
Quote:
Originally Posted by eaglenow
Reserved is 40k of recaptured, unreserved is either from remaining recaptured or from regular eb, most probably the former. Need to read the full text to confirm.Quote:
Originally Posted by qesehmk
Actually meeting with senators or congressman is free. You can book meetings with them both at local offices and in DC. No money needed. I have been to many.Quote:
Originally Posted by qesehmk
Advocacy is easy? Tell that to the groups spending millions of dollars and armies of people to get Dream act passed. Tell that to the umpteen groups who are lobbying every single day on the hill. I don’t know what proof you are looking for? A bill for which so many cosponsors were obtained by huge groups of IV volunteers over the years, passed twice in the house with huge bipartisan support and specifically IV was called out and named by the congressmen and senator on the floor when bringing this bill to the floor. And when admin was ready to settle on H4EAD by siding with plaintiffs, IV inserted itself, which was granted by the courts, which is the sole reason we still have H4EAD. Why do you think the courts granted IV to insert itself to defend the case?
How do you think all of these happened?
I know you have a bad history with IV and that may cloud your views. I will only request you to see it without those clouded lenses of your bad experience with a couple of volunteers and see what all is being done by the huge group of volunteers. Even if you don’t, that is fine as well, but downplaying the efforts of huge groups of volunteers and minimizing & dismissing the work of all those folks does not help anyone, especially the viewers of this site. This is the time for folks to get serious and start focusing and participating in advocacy. While you will not be personally impacted by whatever happens or does not happen, same is not the case for everyone else still in backlog.
Finally, your comments just tells me that you have never advocated for anything on the hill. While you don’t have to do it, If you want to try it for yourself, try to get a congressman or senator to introduce any bill, however simple/trivial it may be and you will see for yourself how easy or difficult it is.
As for the awesome senator, you are right, we do have different views based on our individual experiences and so no need to discuss anymore. At the end of the day, the proof is in the pudding.
If this bill does not pass due to hold by one senator, everyone in backlog for the next few decades will automatically know who is responsible. The cold reality is if this bill does not pass this year, we can kiss any relief for at least the next decade. Given the current economy no other immigration relief bill will be brought up by the new admin if new one is elected. If this admin continues, no need for any relief bill because most folks in backlog will be out of queue and sent back. Biden will not go for second term and so a new one will compete. Immigration is a second term priority for any president.
The only chances for any relief is either 386 or if dems are forced into a corner due to Supreme Court decision on DACA. Unfortunately based on last few decisions by the court, that could very well be the case. Tough times ahead for all immigrants, be it DACA, undocumented or backlogged immigrants.
I think I have vented enough. I just hope I get out of this idiotic backlog soon and wish the same for everyone else.
Venting is fine. Everybody deserves it once a while. Just rest assured that the pain of backlogged folks is bigger than you me or IV. So every position we advocate every step we make needs to be in a positive direction.Quote:
Originally Posted by eaglenow
I am happy to be proven wrong - but this whole non-issue about Durbin not supporting UC is baloney because to my knowledge there is no serious non-emergency legislation passed via UC. UC itself is the poison pill. So why IV fell for it?
As I said - forget IV. Just focus on this key question. Try to find any important non-emergency bill passed via UC.
Please anyone clarify new house bill "(ii) ELIMINATION OF FALL ACROSS.—
For fiscal years 2021 and 2022, the number computed under subsection (c)(3)(C) of
section 201 of the Immigration and Na3 tionality Act (8 U.S.C. 1151), and the
number computed under subsection
(d)(2)(C) of such section, are deemed to
equal zero.
No Spillover from FB to EB
Page: 1732
https://docs.house.gov/billsthisweek...16hr6800ih.pdf
This is not going to work with the Trump Administration. This is Ds way to ensuring that the FB visas do not go unused and roll over. The concomitant effect is that the EB dates do not progress and we stay cursed!Quote:
Originally Posted by Blue_fairy
I do not think the bill in its current form will pass. For now, we are OK but we have to keep a watch on the immigration provisions that may get added in the stimulus bill accepted by the Rs. Keeping fingers crossed.