Bills, Rules & Politics

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Originally Posted by qesehmk

I completely disagree. You are underestimating fairness of American people. Indian community hasn't made a strong case for FIFO.

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People are fair, but indifferent. Interest groups are not. Recent examples of blatant unfairness to legals (which disproportionately impacts people from India):

1) Irish E-3 visa was taken up by house, but HR 392 with 300+ cosponsors is not even brought to the floor - courtesy Paul Ryan.

2) Obama had no issues in giving EAD to DACA population, but giving EAD to people with approved I-140 got watered down to the point of being useless.

3) Kids of legals do not qualify for DACA. You have to be illegal to qualify. If you are legal you age out and struggle on F1.

It is my firm belief that if country cap was impacting the irish, it would have been resolved long time ago.

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Originally Posted by qesehmk

True. But when Trump and co is reducing existing GC numbers (e.g. diversity and now EB5) the chance of lifting overall limit are at least as dim as removal of per country quota.

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Agreed, but I am hopeful there will be support for this from educational institutions if there is a further dip in the number of international students. Likely will not happen anytime soon though. The point I was trying to make was that it is important to hedge the bets i.e. something other than removal of country caps.

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Originally Posted by Immigo

Agreed, but I am hopeful there will be support for this from educational institutions if there is a further dip in the number of international students. Likely will not happen anytime soon though. The point I was trying to make was that it is important to hedge the bets i.e. something other than removal of country caps.

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Do you have data to say international enrollments are down? For most universities of even moderately good standing it won’t be an issue attracting students from anywhere in the world. And the voice of others won’t matter.

We are back to square one with immigration - we would be part of a deal which is unlikely to happen in a foreseeable future. I read somewhere issues which become political football in a democracy take decades to resolve. So unfort we are part of that now.

We try to think in terms of comparing wait times with legal immigrants in other developed countries but the people compare us to wait time and pain of illegal immigrants. So there it is.

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Originally Posted by Immigo

People are fair, but indifferent. Interest groups are not. Recent examples of blatant unfairness to legals (which disproportionately impacts people from India):

1) Irish E-3 visa was taken up by house, but HR 392 with 300+ cosponsors is not even brought to the floor - courtesy Paul Ryan.

2) Obama had no issues in giving EAD to DACA population, but giving EAD to people with approved I-140 got watered down to the point of being useless.

3) Kids of legals do not qualify for DACA. You have to be illegal to qualify. If you are legal you age out and struggle on F1.

It is my firm belief that if country cap was impacting the irish, it would have been resolved long time ago.



Agreed, but I am hopeful there will be support for this from educational institutions if there is a further dip in the number of international students. Likely will not happen anytime soon though. The point I was trying to make was that it is important to hedge the bets i.e. something other than removal of country caps.

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It is ironic, that the Irish bill, which drowned HR 3012 after Grassley lifted his hold 7 years back, and others add theirs passed in 2018 without any issues while HR 392 just died even with nearly entire house as co-sponsors did not even get a look in.

Far left which Obama stroked early in his Presidency, and far right which Trump is stroking now have the same agenda.

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Originally Posted by qesehmk

I know HPKI :)

But after so many years seeing the drama and plight of EB India - I have come to the conclusion that there literally is no one rooting for EB India except this blog and IV. And we are just a blog ... not really an organization. So better stand behind IV.

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If IV was pro-active and run with Trump's statement about Pathway to GC for STEM's, they should be trying to include that in the Bill that is being put to vote in the Senate this week. But I don't hear any noise or even a whisper about that yet.

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Originally Posted by HarepathekaIntezar

If IV was pro-active and run with Trump's statement about Pathway to GC for STEM's, they should be trying to include that in the Bill that is being put to vote in the Senate this week. But I don't hear any noise or even a whisper about that yet.

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Because IV thinks president's tweet is just BS. You cannot form policy decisions based on BS

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Originally Posted by excalibur123

Do you have data to say international enrollments are down?

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This article from Forbes indicates 21% reduction in STEM between 2016 and 2017.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/stuarta.../#59ff86e3c3e7

"In what could be a significant development, much of the overall decline in international student enrollment is due to fewer individuals from India studying computer science and engineering at the graduate level in 2017. The number of international students from India enrolled in graduate level programs in computer science and engineering declined by 21%, or 18,590 fewer graduate students, from 2016 to 2017."

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...ng/1050724001/
"The biggest drop came from Indian students, whose numbers fell by 19% in 2017. "

This article indicates 30% down in applications to US and a shift from US to Canada.
https://www.business-standard.com/ar...0200014_1.html

Though overall, the numbers have increased as compared to the last decade. Therefore, the above need to be taken with a pinch of salt.

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Originally Posted by Immigo

This article from Forbes indicates 21% reduction in STEM between 2016 and 2017.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/stuarta.../#59ff86e3c3e7

"In what could be a significant development, much of the overall decline in international student enrollment is due to fewer individuals from India studying computer science and engineering at the graduate level in 2017. The number of international students from India enrolled in graduate level programs in computer science and engineering declined by 21%, or 18,590 fewer graduate students, from 2016 to 2017."

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...ng/1050724001/
"The biggest drop came from Indian students, whose numbers fell by 19% in 2017. "

This article indicates 30% down in applications to US and a shift from US to Canada.
https://www.business-standard.com/ar...0200014_1.html

Though overall, the numbers have increased as compared to the last decade. Therefore, the above need to be taken with a pinch of salt.

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No Surprise here! Without a line of sight for people who are going to enter the workforce at this time or have entered in the last 5 years through higher education/H1, what path do they have to a permanent residentship. We would like to blame current administration or president but really this is the result of previous administration who had 2 terms and did what exactly for legal immigration? They don't care about us, all they would like is to kick the can down the road and use us immigrant as a pawn, so they can show the problem, but not really address it.

If anything we are better of with the current guy - at least he recognizes the problem for legal immigration.

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Originally Posted by bloddy1

No Surprise here! Without a line of sight for people who are going to enter the workforce at this time or have entered in the last 5 years through higher education/H1, what path do they have to a permanent residentship. We would like to blame current administration or president but really this is the result of previous administration who had 2 terms and did what exactly for legal immigration? They don't care about us, all they would like is to kick the can down the road and use us immigrant as a pawn, so they can show the problem, but not really address it.

If anything we are better of with the current guy - at least he recognizes the problem for legal immigration.

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For legal immigrants we got lots and lots of lip service along with delayed and a totally watered down implementation of H4-EAD only for the spouse, kids excluded. The previous admin also included 3 year OPT, which satisfied lot of corporate greed for subdued wages. We also got a filing date fiasco, subsequent failed law suit and total power to USCIS to use the filing dates as "they" desire.

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Originally Posted by AceMan

For legal immigrants we got lots and lots of lip service along with delayed and a totally watered down implementation of H4-EAD only for the spouse, kids excluded. The previous admin also included 3 year OPT, which satisfied lot of corporate greed for subdued wages. We also got a filing date fiasco, subsequent failed law suit and total power to USCIS to use the filing dates as "they" desire.

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Democrats have stated time and again - they want a Comprehensive solution for all immigrants. That or nothing. So we got nothing.

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Originally Posted by excalibur123

Democrats have stated time and again - they want a Comprehensive solution for all immigrants. That or nothing. So we got nothing.

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When people with extreme view points dominated the parties (Keith Ellison, Sanders for Dems, Ted Cruz for Reps) for the most part of the 2010's, it was assured that nothing useful was bound to happen.

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Originally Posted by AceMan

For legal immigrants we got lots and lots of lip service along with delayed and a totally watered down implementation of H4-EAD only for the spouse, kids excluded. The previous admin also included 3 year OPT, which satisfied lot of corporate greed for subdued wages. We also got a filing date fiasco, subsequent failed law suit and total power to USCIS to use the filing dates as "they" desire.

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That's very little but even the H4-EAD is so closely tied at the hip to H1-B that doesn't function as a legal travel document, so while it does provide spouses basis to earn, it does not help your overall residency well being.

One can say we cannot be choosers and that's an attitude change i.e., we are not asking for basic rights here rather we do have leverage and have to let folks feel that enmasse.

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Originally Posted by bloddy1

That's very little but even the H4-EAD is so closely tied at the hip to H1-B that doesn't function as a legal travel document, so while it does provide spouses basis to earn, it does not help your overall residency well being.

One can say we cannot be choosers and that's an attitude change i.e., we are not asking for basic rights here rather we do have leverage and have to let folks feel that enmasse.

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The only way the current backlog will be cleared is via tighter immigration enforcement and/or imminent recession. It's anybody's guess when the stock market swings will negatively affect the economy but when that happens, it is not going to be pretty. There will massive exodus of people from US to India. Let us not kid ourselves that any favorable immigration bills will be cleared in the congress in the next six years (dems or repubs - makes no difference)

Iatiam

Stephen Miller has been the architect of Trump immigration policy so far, which has been totally negative. My guess is it won't be any different this time from the previous deal on DACA that Trump reneged on. However, there is a possibility that someone in the Trump 2020 campaign sees the passing of a CIR as a huge positive and Trump gets it done by sidelining Miller. Already Sen. Manchin has floated the idea of voting on CIR.

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Originally Posted by bloddy1

That's very little but even the H4-EAD is so closely tied at the hip to H1-B that doesn't function as a legal travel document, so while it does provide spouses basis to earn, it does not help your overall residency well being.

One can say we cannot be choosers and that's an attitude change i.e., we are not asking for basic rights here rather we do have leverage and have to let folks feel that enmasse.

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With so much rhetoric going and the difficulty and issue to get timely renewals it is very difficult to convince any good company to hire with no guarantee that the renewals happen in time with no gaps. The H4-EAD is a case where you don't have continuity.

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Originally Posted by iatiam

The only way the current backlog will be cleared is via tighter immigration enforcement and/or imminent recession. It's anybody's guess when the stock market swings will negatively affect the economy but when that happens, it is not going to be pretty. There will massive exodus of people from US to India. Let us not kid ourselves that any favorable immigration bills will be cleared in the congress in the next six years (dems or repubs - makes no difference)

Iatiam

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Yeah, basically prayer of a chance! I have even heard that EB5 visa availability is extremely delayed as well, so avenues to immigration overall are closing. Anytime someone has a chance to to the EB1 route I would say jump with 2 feet in, same with the EB3 downgrade although I'm less sanguine about the EB3's prospects because of the mass effect.

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Originally Posted by HarepathekaIntezar

Stephen Miller has been the architect of Trump immigration policy so far, which has been totally negative. My guess is it won't be any different this time from the previous deal on DACA that Trump reneged on. However, there is a possibility that someone in the Trump 2020 campaign sees the passing of a CIR as a huge positive and Trump gets it done by sidelining Miller. Already Sen. Manchin has floated the idea of voting on CIR.

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If you believe CIR will pass congress in the next six years, I have bridge to sell you. Last time when Reagan gave amnesty to millions of illegals, the state of California turned completely blue for the rest of history. This gives democrats an uneven advantage in presidential polls. Republicans will never allow this to happen again. The only chance of CIR passing is when democrats holding house, senate and WH and I don't think that will happen anytime soon.

Iatiam

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Originally Posted by iatiam

The only chance of CIR passing is when democrats holding house, senate and WH and I don't think that will happen anytime soon.

Iatiam

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I doubt that would happen as the initial 2 years of Obama's presidency was with Democrats holding all three but nothing concrete. And dems would not do anything until they get the illegals immigrants who are already in addressed.

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Originally Posted by iatiam

If you believe CIR will pass congress in the next six years, I have bridge to sell you. Last time when Reagan gave amnesty to millions of illegals, the state of California turned completely blue for the rest of history. This gives democrats an uneven advantage in presidential polls. Republicans will never allow this to happen again. The only chance of CIR passing is when democrats holding house, senate and WH and I don't think that will happen anytime soon.

Iatiam

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Let us see. If fringe pro EB Reform groups like IV et al can lobby the right way with full force, there is a chance. I have not heard a whimper from IV so far in this cycle. Maybe they have run out of gas and are just feathering their own nests. The latest update on the IV facebook page is a picture of a few vested interests getting a photo op with a Senator. As they say, every dog has its day, maybe Stephen Miller has had his 365X2 Days ...:rolleyes: Just think of it, after all the shitty things Trump has done during his tenure and all the lies he has told so far, can anything beat a CIR? If he can get a CIR, that will be his legacy..even if he does not win the next election!

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Originally Posted by iatiam

Last time when Reagan gave amnesty to millions of illegals, the state of California turned completely blue for the rest of history. This gives democrats an uneven advantage in presidential polls.

Iatiam

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The numbers are different now. Last time when Regan acted it was 3 million who got amnesty. Right now that figure is around 10 million according to my knowledge. If we consider that and they go out to add beneficiaries after getting citizenship, the family based GC queues will be a mess.

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Originally Posted by HarepathekaIntezar

Let us see. If fringe pro EB Reform groups like IV et al can lobby the right way with full force, there is a chance. I have not heard a whimper from IV so far in this cycle. Maybe they have run out of gas and are just feathering their own nests. The latest update on the IV facebook page is a picture of a few vested interests getting a photo op with a Senator. As they say, every dog has its day, maybe Stephen Miller has had his 365X2 Days ...:rolleyes: Just think of it, after all the shitty things Trump has done during his tenure and all the lies he has told so far, can anything beat a CIR? If he can get a CIR, that will be his legacy..even if he does not win the next election!

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You seem to have an axe to grind with IV. May I ask what real world work have you done to solve this issue? I can admit I am just an arm chair expert.

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Originally Posted by excalibur123

You seem to have an axe to grind with IV. May I ask what real world work have you done to solve this issue? I can admit I am just an arm chair expert.

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Welcome to the 'arm chair expert' club bro:p

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Originally Posted by excalibur123

You seem to have an axe to grind with IV. May I ask what real world work have you done to solve this issue? I can admit I am just an arm chair expert.

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Due to the very nature of the IV membership, there is no real political power to influence any policy because the members are not in the first place citizens and we Indians per se are not as powerful a minority like the Jews. Even the miniscule Irish beat us when it comes to political power. Given the lack of political power, we need to pursue a different strategy. All these 'Action' Programs that have been the staple of IV have always come to naught. IV has to reach out to the diaspora and invite ideas on strategy and chalk out the next 'Action' program. But the leadership of IV is so stuck on themselves, arrogant and have their own agenda that they never listen to the any suggestions from members.

Has anyone proposed this so far - Modify/Repurpose the DV Category and call it US STEM Degree Category? The eligibility should of course be a US STEM Degree and there should be no Per Country restriction.

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Originally Posted by HarepathekaIntezar

Has anyone proposed this so far - Modify/Repurpose the DV Category and call it US STEM Degree Category? The eligibility should of course be a US STEM Degree and there should be no Per Country restriction.

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Even if this is proposed and accepted, the per country restriction would not go as that would be conflicting with other EB categories and will cause lawsuits. Unless all employment categories are considered to be based on qualification and equal opportunity with a FIFO, I doubt the country limits can be done selectively.

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Originally Posted by srimurthy

Even if this is proposed and accepted, the per country restriction would not go as that would be conflicting with other EB categories and will cause lawsuits. Unless all employment categories are considered to be based on qualification and equal opportunity with a FIFO, I doubt the country limits can be done selectively.

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The question was - has this been proposed at all?