Well the STEM bill failed in the House. Thanks Democrats for NOTHING.
Well the STEM bill failed in the House. Thanks Democrats for NOTHING.
yeah.. yeah.. this was expected.. now next game is on in Senate with Schumer's Circus... one Republican Senator is enough to hold that bill then and there... So proved without any doubt... POLITRICKS!Quote:
Originally Posted by abcx13
Schumer's bill is now DOA because I don't think the Republicans will pass it. This is the Democrats playing Politricks.Quote:
Originally Posted by immitime
Africa is a pet issue for a minority of Reps from the Congressional Black Caucus. In this case though, I think Rep. Lee was just confused. She kept referring to family reunification, which is not what the Diversity Visa is meant for. I think Smith was very effective by keeping focus on the fact that DV entrants are keeping African American and Latino unemployment at levels significantly higher than the national average, and one of the other Reps said something about how their STEM bill would replace 3,000 DV Nigerian immigrants with 3,000 STEM Nigerian immigrants.Quote:
Originally Posted by abcx13
In any case, this whole exercise is pointless, as the WH and Senate have a competing bill, so this has no legs whatsoever.
Everywhere both the parties are playing POLITRICKS! without any shame.!Quote:
Originally Posted by abcx13
The Republicans definitely had the more rational and convincing arguments. BTW, the DV costs the US $1.3 billion. That's $26k/person.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pedro Gonzales
As expected. When you have a divided legislature and there are two competing bills, don't expect anything. Besides, STEM wasn't going to help us out immediately. As sportsfan pointed out earlier, it would increase the negative spread between EB2I and EB3ROW thereby increasing bitterness all around. I for one, would rather not be more bitter. Onwards and upwards with HR3012.Quote:
Originally Posted by abcx13
I think STEM would still have helped out because you would still need a MS certified job to qualify. Anyway, moot point.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pedro Gonzales
In addition to that, this bill, even if it had passed the house, it would have gone nowhere in the senate. The same might be true but in the reverse for Schumer's BRAIN act.Quote:
Originally Posted by abcx13
Nothing really works.. unless if there is a legislation to increase the numbers for EB and FB category! and that is not going anywhere soon. only hope now is H.R.3012Quote:
Originally Posted by abcx13
http://www.computerworld.com/s/artic...isa_bill_fails
What surprised me is that U.S. Rep. Zoe Lofgren is against the spillover of visas from STEM to other EB categories.
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U.S. Rep. Zoe Lofgren (D-Calif.), who introduced her own bill, said she could not support Smith's bill.
"Although this bill ostensibly seeks to increase STEM visas, it appears to have another, in my opinion, more sinister purpose -- to actually reduce legal immigration levels," said Lofgren, in a statement.
Lofgren cited the elimination of the diversity visa, but also faulted the bill for now allowing unused visas to be used to reduce green card backlogs.
************************************************** *********
luvspider - probably a typo - she faulted the bill for NOT... instead of now
Smith / Zoe Lofgren proposals are out now and there is a very little chance for Schumer bill to pass through congress. Hopefully the tech lobbyists shift their energy towards 3012 and also hope it’s not really a lame duck session and our stuff gets passed during that period.Quote:
Originally Posted by gs1968
I have gone through Pedro analysis.Quote:
Originally Posted by sportsfan33
I do not see in any of the STEM proposals ( Only Schumer proposal is left now ) that existing STEM degree holders will not tested in the labor market again. Meaning, the STEM degree holders who are in EB3 now and want to jump to new STEM category they have to go through the PERM process again as their current job (PERM) doesn’t require a MS and the same will apply for few/all in EB2.
I still believe that there will be a good spillover to EB2 at least in the 1st year of STEM.
I know we are jumping the gun way ahead. But it’s always good if we get educate ourselves in a what IF scenario.
As always I am open to correct myself if there is a good theory.
If it is just STEM education, then it is a flawed bill and I agree EB3s will overrun it. Especially if they allow SO to foreign STEM degree holders (though in theory this should only be after all US STEM holders have been processed). But reading between the lines, they require a STEM job, I think the requirements will be same as EB2 - it will also have to require a MS. Has anyone seen the actual text? Is the "job requires a Masters" for EB2 condition a USCIS admin law thing or is it codified?Quote:
Originally Posted by sportsfan33
Anyway, I am hopeful for at least some kind of legislation passing the lame duck...ideally it will be HR3012. Honestly I think that is still the best bill and the most beneficial. And then when white immigrants from Europe are backlogged too, we might see some higher quotas.
The President admits about his biggest failure. Great election show!
The Obama sound bite has buried the first part of Obama's answer: He admitted that his "biggest failure" was an inability to produce comprehensive immigration reform, though he placed much of the blame for that on Congressional Republicans that voted "no" on the DREAM Act.
Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/obama...#ixzz277J3nY2Q
CIR proposed by this administration in 2009 has just about nothing in it for legal immigrants. The exception is setting up a committee to assess if the visa numbers need to be changed with the new economic requirements. The rest of it all about border security, supporting the undocumented workers with no criminal records, and dealing with workers who have no work permits and visa overstay tracking and control and such things. Because of a reference to amnesty in the CIR proposal, GOP had blocked any talk of the CIR bill in the house.Quote:
Originally Posted by immitime
Moreover the President's Univision chat is specifically addressed to a latin american community and the CIR he is referring to has no bearing on STEM or HR3012 or H4 EAD or any of those thing we are interested in.
The proof is in the pudding if you have the patience to read the White House CIR proposal.. read it please.Quote:
Originally Posted by chengisk
The below is from the following Source: http://www.whitehouse.gov/sites/defa..._blueprint.pdf
Go to page 26.. para 1. read again and again and understand
Making reforms to the existing employment- and family-based immigration system, including exempting immediate relatives of U.S. citizens from annual caps placed on legal immigration, and changing the categories and per country caps put in place to ensure successful high-skilled immigrants are able to remain in the U.S. permanently and U.S. citizens and legal permanent residents are able to reunite with their families more quickly;
again just one page above Page 25 under the Proposals.
is it not STEM???
Encouraging foreign students to stay in the U.S. and contribute to our economy by stapling a green card to the diplomas of science, technology, engineering and mathematics (STEM), PhDs and select STEM Masters Degrees students so that they will stay, contribute to the American economy, and become Americans over time;
Thanks immitime. Appreciate your detailed reply. However, I believe where we are differing is in the document we are citing. You are linking to a document which is a Whitehouse dream, nearest to the election manifesto. Every President has one. However that dream got whittled and what was, after a certain amount of compromises, push out was this,
http://www.aila.org/content/default.aspx?docid=31851
How come this all the way from the blueprint? Because a bill is passes not by the WH but by the house and the senate. GoP will not let most of the programs in the doc you have linked to go any further in the house or senate (especially the latin american aspects of it) without strict controls and punishments established in the first place. Similarly, Rep.Ryan has a blueprint after compromises with Norquist that says over the next 50 years they will abolish all taxes - yes, all taxes. Because in 1800s immigrants from Ireland and Germany came to the US because the land was cheap and the taxes were nonexistent. So all those blueprints are mere 'dream'prints.
So what was the holding point in Dems not supporting this?
It appears the Dems are mainly interested in proposals related to Hispanics. Though they are paying lip service to the Lottery Visa, they actually want some visa apportioned to 'family reunification'. They obviously prioritize these above the STEM and Employment visa. You can see this reflected in all the docs and, I think, it will be reflected in their future proposals as well. They prefer Social rationale over Economic one.
That's right. And the democrats have done that for over decades now. I am also miffed that they nixed Smith's bill over the DV and want to go with a 2-year pilot program with 110k new visas (and that not budging anyplace and is going to be lobbied down and RiP'd). Well Democrats are not that pro business and often will look at the social benefit than a economic one. In fact, a few days back Sen. Reid pointedly told GOP not to table any bill with an addendum 'the chamber of commerce supports this bill'. That would include H.R.3012 which was also lobbied by USCoC. A very sad state of affairs on the hill. But bashing the president is not appropriate here. Just my belief that such bashings are misplaced.Quote:
Originally Posted by kkruna
People will be more convinced if you can present the real proposed bill. Instead of this greedy attorney organisations docids.:D. No value for this AILA document, may be these are all AILA dreams ;) to keep Legal immigrants on their fee role and make them suffer for their $$$$.Quote:
Originally Posted by chengisk
To put it simply, unless "STEM" or IC Vote-Block doesn't back these proposals, no politician is going to take those forward. Simply because it is a 5 year turn-around after Green Card is approved for the people to start voting - thats too long for politics.
Bottom line: What is the gain in cleaning up a problem?? Very few Politicians have a personal passion for reforming immigration.
kkruna - you are right. The state dept that controls these visas - prefers political rationale over either. The country quotas, diversity visa and refugee visas are all geopolitical tools. I am utterly surprised they let go diversity visas which makes doing away with country quota more difficult.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kkruna
The Senate vote for the continuing resolution has been moved up to 1130PM tonight from 1AM. Wouldn't it be great if HR3012 sneaks through in the early hours of the morning when the Senators are barely awake? It would be exactly one year to the day (9/22) from the date of introduction by Rep. Chaffetz
Lets all wait for the good news soon.. Who knows how, when and where this bill is taken.. this bill always gives surprised....Praying for all.Quote:
Originally Posted by gs1968
If that does happen, I would start believing in miracles!!Quote:
Originally Posted by gs1968
From Ron,
"I may be mistaken, but I'm pretty sure that I heard correctly this morning that Congress is about to recess and that they are giving up on the farm bill and the transportation bill until after the election. If so, then that's all folks. If they shut down now, they will have at least five major legislative items to deal with in the lame duck session and there won't be time for anything else. "
Really this Attorney Ron Gotcher became totally anti EB immigrant now, he is one of the Chela of AILA, and he along with a bunch of ROW guys are polluting his forum. Never ever believe whatever an attorney says.Quote:
Originally Posted by rupen86
Until the Grassley's amendment added, Ron was all for H.R. 3012 as soon as the amendment added he turned 360 degree, refer his past emails in his forum if it is not deleted!
Ron was predicting Visa movements from Year 2005 onwards, I always noticed all his predictions are mere speculation and false. Ron, Murthy, OH law frim every one in same boat.
Agreed. Ron was for the Grassley amendment until AILA started lobbying against it.Quote:
Originally Posted by immitime
When HR3012 was introduced everyone including AILA and ** lobbied on it. But when ** went alone for negotiating with Grassley the divison started. ** still had chance to maintain good relationship with them. But they attacked directly in the forum and isolated from them. That might have been avoided and ** might have handled differently. Ron was always did not like HR 3012 in the current form. Though he supported HR 3012 still he preferred recapture plus country quota removal. Also Attourneys cannot rely on one country and they have clients from all over the world. So they cannot support just one country as there were so many concerns from many countries. Now ** was isolated completely. Corporations are supporting but they have no reason to push this bill by going out of the way. Actually it nice to have for Corporations. Predictions of VB is always speculative as no one has right data. So we cannot blame Ron
Quote:
Originally Posted by abcx13
Agree with you there. Except a minor point: Turning 360 is exactly same direction! :)Quote:
Originally Posted by immitime
good analysisQuote:
Originally Posted by Ramsen
There were number of bills taken up yesterday night for unanimous consent but HR 3012 was not part of it. Now, we have to set our eyes on lame duck session which is already crowded with many other bills.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rupen86
I see only four bills passed yesterday.
http://democrats.senate.gov/2012/09/...ember-22-2012/Quote:
Originally Posted by redsox2009
I lost count. There were many many bills passed.
To justvisiting
I was really hoping that it would be included yesterday.There is usually a frenzy at the end of sessions and Bills that are non-controversial are rushed through.We have had a few such sessions after the hold was lifted-one before the 4th of July,one before the summer recess and one yesterday.There is something in the Bill that is not acceptable to one or more Senators otherwise this would have passed a long time ago.Also what is strange is that if the House Bill is not acceptable in its current form as far as country caps are concerned-no attempt is being made to modify the House Bill or its Senate equivalent to provide at least some relief. Rupen86 is still holding out hope for the lame duck session but it is becoming hard to see a way forward for this as the composition of the Senate remains the same
I think the AILA has played a significant role.Lawyers constitute one of the Democratic party's largest and most reliable donor bases and their pockets are deep. I also came across this post from a lawyer website and the paragraph towards the end on 3012 clearly states their reservations about the provisions
http://www.metrocorpcounsel.com/arti...tion-platforms
Like John Kerry in 2004 the AILA was "for it before they were against it"
Even when AILA was supporting the bill, it was not going anywhere. AILA supported several bills in the past. None passed in the last 10 years. I think the main reason we are not seeing any action is because some people really do not want too many Indians here and they are going to make to it very difficult for Indians to settle down here.
It seems like only way this bill would pass would be through unanimous consent. Cloture won't be used even if there are 60 votes. It is hard to imagine that 60 votes won't be available for this bill. So, ** and other parties negotiated with Grassley for a year and at the end of it looks like someone else has a problem. So this way, it would take 100 years for pass this bill (one year per senator).Quote:
Originally Posted by gs1968
PS: I am not optimistic about lame duck or for that matter any other session. I think this bill now needs support of a bigger bill. It can not pass as a standalone bill.
Rupen, that's what I said in some of my previous posts also that I also don't have any hopes on lame duck session. I also think that this bill will not go anywhere as a stand alone bill and its provisions have to be a part of a larger immigration bill and may be even CIR.Quote:
Originally Posted by rupen86
I have said this before and I will say this again. If this bill or its provision have to see the light of day, in its original form or as a part of the bigger bill or CIR, it will only happen if BO gets reelected with majority. CIR was one of BO's main election agenda and he and other Democrats shall make every effort to pass it. We saw an executive order earlier in this regards and CIR becomes important, especially when Latinos are still supporting him wholeheartedly despite his administration deporting maximum number of illegals in last 4 years. That's the only hope I see. I am not a fan of BO neither I am a Democrat by nature and principles. I am more right-leaning but I am trying to be realistic. I have less hopes on Republicans doing any kind of immigration reform. Have you ever heard Mitt Romney laying out his ideas on immigration or what he wants to do with it except some loose talks? Republicans are usually more pro-legal immigration but many people from their own party are hard core anti-immigrants, which include people like Grassley also, and they are the one who do not let anything related to immigration pass the Congress. Democrats on the other hand will not touch legal immigration alone without including illegal immigration with it but at least, we know that if CIR is to happen, it will only happen with BO in office.
We shall see what future has for all of us. These are testing times.