I see no logic in passing STEM and not passing 3012. Both rely on changing the rule of giving green card based on country of origin. Whatever bogus reason of "not protecting American worker" applied in case of 3012, should apply here also.Quote:
Originally Posted by sportsfan33
Quote:
Originally Posted by gs1968
You're enraged based on 3rd degree information. The article quotes a Republican lobbyist claiming that the White House is against the bill. The next sentence in the article goes "The fact of the matter is that politically, Democrats don't want to give a Republican Congress a win on immigration reform, especially when it comes to high-tech," said a GOP tech lobbyist. How he can claim this when HR3012 has been held up by Republicans for 10 months, is beyond me. At the very least that should hurt his credibility sufficiently that you give the WH the benefit of the doubt for now.Quote:
Originally Posted by abcx13
Because it is republican sponsored, democrats may not want to pass it fearing republicans would get credit. 3012 was held by Grassley (Republican) but there was always an option for putting motion to proceed if democrats felt it was important bill to pass. I can't imagine that it would have been difficult to get 60 votes when it was passed with overwhelming republican majority in the house. The fact is democrats favor DREAM act which would mostly be for illegals making them legal and then along with that they would include something for legal immigration. Democrats are least interested in passing only legal immigration bill. So, the article is not really wrong in pointing this out.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pedro Gonzales
Quote:
Originally Posted by sportsfan33
Shaant gadhadhari bhim shaant! Let the bill get tabled and voted on in the House and we'll see where the Democrats stand.Quote:
Originally Posted by abcx13
My experience has always been that the Democrats are generally for all immigration, legal and illegal, high skilled and low skilled and that the Republicans are generally against all immigration. Now, as to nuances, the Dems focus more on low skilled and illegal immigration based on satisfying the Hispanic vote, but that doesn't prove to me that the Republicans support high skill legal immigration more than the Democrats. Finally, the only verifiable fact on the subject that matters to me is that HR 3012 has been and is continuing to be stalled by Republicans.
No one knows why the bill is stalled after the hold is released.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pedro Gonzales
The Republicans may not actually support this if they win the Senate too. I think right now it's just a bone they are throwing to be seen as immigration friendly by the tech/business community, especially now that Obama passed that exec order.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pedro Gonzales
But the Democrats care more about illegal immigration and the stupid Irish visa (sorry, Diversity visa) more than about legal immigration - and that's what is annoying. They could do an exec order for DREAMERs, but they couldn't file for cloture on HR3012? And they're the ones holding up trading the DV for STEM/EB GCs, not the Republicans.
I agree with this. But this means that we do not have anyone who would further our interest.Quote:
Originally Posted by abcx13
Also, when it comes to immigration in senate, Dick Durbin is democratic leader who sides with Grassley in imposing restrictions on H1 but at the same time, he sides with passing DACA which would give EAD to 1.7 million people without any kind of so called "protection".Quote:
Originally Posted by sportsfan33
The only immigration bill which have bipartisan support in Senate and congress is only H.R.3012. Of course there is possibility only for this Bill. STEM bill is only proposal and it will be stalled in the present Senate.
In one sentence.
H.R.3012 is kept for lame duck session for the time being.(They may take up around Sept 21st also who knows?) The main hindrance now for H.R.3012 in the Senate and in particular Senate Democrats, because of elections, if H.R.3012 becomes law now, in the Presidential Debate Romney can score by showing that Republican bill passed both houses with a bipartisan support! So we may need to wait until November for H.R.3012. Hold on the land is not faraway!
What is the need for negotiation to release the hold before election ?Quote:
Originally Posted by immitime
After watching this for a while, my conclusion is HR3012 got stuck in a war between the Irish and I/C. Chuck Schumer will not let 3012 advance without E-3 visas for Ireland.Quote:
Originally Posted by immitime
I do not believe that it is the case. While releasing the hold, it was published that Grassley has reached a deal with Schumer of separating Irish E-3 and 3012.Quote:
Originally Posted by justvisiting
With a foot in both a Republican and Democrat state, I receive canned emails from both Dems (Schumer/Gillbrandt) and GOPers (McCain/Kyle). The email from Schumer squarely blames the Republicans for holding up the bill, whereas the response from Senator Kyl and McCain are more generic about the bill having their support and hopefully becoming law at some point. That leads me to believe the impasse has to do with Republicans, who either have other issues with this bill or just don't like the H1B provisions.
Or the Democrats don't want to pass it and are blaming the Republicans (election year, remember).Quote:
Originally Posted by Pedro Gonzales
A Democratic response to the Republican proposal
http://www.enewspf.com/latest-news/l...the-house.html
So assuming this passes, which is a big if, we will have TWO immigration bills stuck in the Senate held hostage to one Fhuck Grassley and some other unnamed Senators. All I want for Christmas is for ONE of them to pass.Quote:
Originally Posted by gs1968
But with the Republicans in control of the House and Lamar Smith backing this, I think it has good chances
Which means that there won't be democratic support for the bill as it stands now and republicans won't support increasing overall numbers. This bill right now seems dead. These lines are ridiculous. "Republicans are only willing to increase legal immigration for immigrants they want by eliminating legal immigration for immigrants they don't want. " What does that mean? They are not targeting any group by eliminating diversity visas. The same argument could have been made for Irish E-3 visas which was for very specific group. This is really hypocrisy from democrats.Quote:
Originally Posted by gs1968
To abcx
We keep blaming the Democrats but this Bill is a cynical ploy by the Republicans most likely to placate their donors. There is no Bill introduced on Congressional record as of this moment and it is going to be voted by suspension of rules in the middle of next week with no discussion/debate about impact of this law!! As we all know suspension of rules needs 2/3 majority and a substantial number of Democratic votes to pass and I completely agree with your "big IF"
To rupen86
Irish E-3 is a non-immigrant provision and there are numerous countries with similar provisions. The DV program is a Democratic idea and the Republicans have tried hard over the years to abolish it without much success.
Of course, by holding STEMs hostage to family and diversity visas, Democrats are also "only willing to increase legal immigration for immigrants they want by eliminating legal immigration for immigrants they don't want." After letting in 1.7m DREAMers, the Democrats can't authorize 50k STEM visas without groveling for more of their Hispanic/Latino/Irish brothers who will most likely suck at the government's teat? I hate to sound like a racist but this is absolutely ridiculous. Despite my rants against bodyshoppers, odds are that those guys are probably more skilled than some random guy from BFE.Quote:
Originally Posted by rupen86
The Republicans might still force it through the House to make Dems look bad. "Look - BHO legalized 1.7M illegals but he can't legalize 50K highly skilled US educated immigrants for growing the economy..." That could work. But only problem is that if this gets taken up after the election and the Democrats win, nobody has an incentive to do anything...
I know abt the first part - I made the same point a few posts up I think. But hopefully there will be some sensible Dems who will agree to this? I doubt it but who knows...Quote:
Originally Posted by gs1968
More info on the topic
This from POLITICO
"STEM VISA BILL TALKS CONTINUE -- Negotiations continue in the House on measures that would make more visas available for those with masters and doctorates in STEM fields from qualifying U.S. universities. One proposal would create 50,000 STEM visas and discontinue the 55,000 “diversity visa” lottery available annually to people coming from countries with low rates of immigration. Another would give half of those diversity visas to the family based immigration system, and one half to STEM graduates.
But election season politics may be getting in the way, with Republicans wanting a bill introduced and voted on sooner than Democrats, according to a source. Rep. Lamar Smith has been at the center of these discussions, which also included Majority Leader Eric Cantor, Majority Whip Kevin McCarthy, and Reps. Luis Gutierrez, Zoe Lofgren, Bob Goodlatte, Howard Berman, and Raul Labrador. A House Judiciary aide confirms Smith is working on a measure that would keep some foreign graduates of U.S. universities with advanced STEM degrees in the U.S., and he hopes to have a draft bill soon."
It also appears like Rep.Zoe Lofgren beat him to the line as she introduced her own Bill on STEM graduates today.I did not have time to go through it carefully but there is some mention about usage of unused visas (? spillover to regular EB categories)
http://www.siliconbeat.com/2012/09/1...ogy-graduates/
Interesting. I think neither bill will go anywhere because of how stupid politicians are. I agree with Zoe's bill on this:Quote:
Originally Posted by gs1968
Foreign graduates of for-profit schools may not receive STEM visas.The Republican proposal expressly includes degrees from for-profit schools, including degrees earned by mail or over the internet.
Maybe they can compromise though...it seems even if these things pass in the House, they won't pass in the Senate. I don't know why they aren't making noise about passing HR3012.
Because H.R.3012 is long pass this stage and is already on Senate Calender. now how can congress discuss H.R.3012 while it passed with overwhelming majority? H.R.3012s time is for lame duck session, most probably.Quote:
Originally Posted by abcx13
I have absolutely no hope from any party. Both have held legal employment based immigration hostage to their own agenda. I agree with immitime, if HR 3012 has any chance, it is in lame duck session otherwise forget about it.Quote:
Originally Posted by abcx13
The Bill has been scheduled for floor vote on Friday
http://majorityleader.gov/Floor/
Interestingly the Bill does not even have a number yet for the schedule. Obviously the text of the Bill has not been made public yet
It has been scheduled for most likely the last working day before the recess.
I think it can be either Thurs or Fri. Maybe they will compromise with the Democrats in the House (like Lofgren) to come up with a Bill both parties like? And maybe that's why there is no text yet because they are still working on it. If the House can pass it without removing DV, then it really really should pass the Senate because for it to pass without cutting DV would mean both the Republicans and Democrats support it.Quote:
Originally Posted by gs1968
A man can dream, right?
To abcx13
I know you are trying to fill us all with hope but I just cannot see conservative Republicans agreeing to an increase in immigration by 50000/55000 visas 6 weeks before a tough election which is what a compromise would mean. Personally the sheer timing of the Bill implies mere posturing than real intent.
I don't know if this article has been linked before but it makes interesting reading about the dynamics of the Bill
http://beverlyhillsimmigrationlaw.bl...-path-for.html
Lofgren's bill creates EB-6, gives it 50K new visas, and let's them spillover to EB-1 (and from there to EB-2 and 3). Per-country caps will still apply to EB-6. There is nothing in the bill saying EB-6 is open only to new graduates, so I assume anyone with a STEM degree from a good university can apply.
This really seems like political posturing by republicans so that it can be claimed that they introduced the bill to give STEM visas. It is a nice talking point. But this bill is not going anywhere. Republicans are not going to accept additional green cards and democrats are not going to eliminate diversity visas. I do not know what possible compromise they can come up with.Quote:
Originally Posted by gs1968
It really is curtains this Friday for the House.No doubt the Senators will also skip town on Friday (or even earlier)
http://www.govexec.com/oversight/201...22/?oref=river
I found the first comment in response to that story very funny.We have to wait for the lame duck session for anything meaningful to happen.BTW is the House really going to vote on 27 Bills on Tuesday?
PS-Can someone explain how I became Pandit? I feel very intellectual and someone must think that my drivel is actually thought-provoking!
Nowadays anti immigrants does not need to work on opposing the bill. Either congress itself will not pass anything. If anything comes closer the divisions in pro immigrants will derail the bill
Quote:
Originally Posted by gs1968
Some more information from this morning.
http://www.computerworld.com/s/artic...STEM_visa_bill
No comment-fellow forum members are free to draw their own conclusions
Well said.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ramsen
Now days wrt the US congress, anyone pro anything cannot get things done, anyone anti anything do not have to do anything.
I wanted to provide comments regardless. This article makes it clear that the reason two separate bills were introduced was because two parties could not come to agreement. So, this is merely political posturing so that both parties can claim moral high ground of retaining so called "brightest" minds here. If this was not enough, the article says that Grassley is going to have his own bill. So, even if through miracle there was some agreement and bipartisan bill was introduced, it would not make a difference to Grassley and it would meet the same fate like 3012.Quote:
Originally Posted by gs1968
The Lamar Smith bill's text has been released. It is very similar to the Lofgren bill, but no spillover. However, it allows people who already have a degree and an approved labor cert. to "port" without a new labor cert.
Got a link to it? Please.Quote:
Originally Posted by justvisiting
This morning's update to read with your coffee
http://thehill.com/blogs/hillicon-va...ed-immigration
The timing of the Bill's vote on the House Floor will give us a better idea about where this is headed. My feeling is that the Democrats in the House will let it pass and leave the Senate where they control the agenda handle it. If the House Floor votes on it on Thursday it will be received in the Senate on Friday (if Senate is still in session). Then we will know before the recess if this is headed to the Senate Judiciary Committee or going to the Calendar directly. If the vote on this Bill is postponed to Friday due to the backlog from Wednesday in the House (there are greater than 20 bills to be voted on on Wednesday) then the fate of the Bill hangs in suspense till the lame duck session in November. My feeling is that the Republicans in the Senate will object to Committee assignment and ask that it be placed on the calendar directly. I think the WH is against abolishing the DV and this pressure could influence either the adoption or amendment of this Bill
This article again points the facts that the other article had pointed that both parties could not reach agreement and introducing their own bill. Since Republicans control the house, that is the bill that is going to move forward. Democrats are unlikely to support that given white house and their own objection to end DV program. Even if some democrats end up supporting this bill and it passes house, it is not going anywhere in senate where Grassley, Schumer will be the road block to the bill. The timing of the bill suggests that it is political posturing that they are interested in rather than passing it.Quote:
Originally Posted by gs1968
Another news source
http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Politic...cial-treatment