I searched on Google for ** rally. But can not seem to find any news related to that. Do you have any link for that ?
I never said we do not have flaws. I certainly do not see a large skilled workforce as a flaw. All the other things you mention (Iraq war, Kashmir ??) have nothing to do with what we were discussing.
The usage in EB2-ROW and EB1 has increased leaving less spillover. The I-485 receipts data indicate that to be the case for 2011 and 2012.
As Spec pointed out to you few pages back that change in EB1-C is not that significant.
Post 1
Post 2
For porting, the law firms have been doing a great job in marketing porting to EB3. Who is opposing all the ammendments to fix some of the malpractices for H1, law firms again.
Jumping a red light is illegal, here everyone is playing by the rules. The opinion on rules should be independent of people using those rules. India does not come into the picture except for the 7% country cap.
I will ignore all the other abusive remarks you made. Yelling at your family at home because you can't face the outside world does not seem very courageous to me.
End of discussion from my side, the stage is all yours.
Your wordings:
Quote:
Jumping a red light is illegal, here everyone is playing by the rules.
UnQuote
Everyone is not playing by the rules, the spillover law interpretation change (2007/2008) with out legislation is unfair and injustice done to lot of EB3 immigrants.
Thanks for the support, sport! I will only add that EB1C fraud is one thing (and it's small as Spec pointed out), but there is fraud in other ways too - L1s requiring 'specialized knowledge', working on B1/B2s, not paying benched H1Bs, people overstaying H1Bs after losing jobs, people finding 'universities' after losing jobs, questionable degrees and educational evals, no pay raises. The list goes on and on. The last one - no pay raises - is not illegal but from the friends I have working as FTEs at Fortune 500 employers, they are typically not held hostage the way a CTS or an Infy does. (I realize there are some cases where Fortune 500s can screw you too but I think it's fair to say the % is lower.) Now I don't have hard numbers to back this up because USCIS/DHS don't make them available but I read that they once found 20% of LCAs were fraudulent. And anecdotally, I have seen enough posts on trackitt and other forums to know that all these issues are more than just exceptions to the rule.
I personally know 5 people (it was 3 until last week) who have gamed H1s, B1/B2s and L1s - all Indians but not just IT. And I don't even know that many IT types, where I suspect the numbers will be higher. Some of the smartest people I know (BS/MS from top 10 univs, working at Google, MS, etc.) have actually gone back because they can't be bothered to deal with the pain-in-the-ass immigration system (in fact, their companies were actually pushing them to file GCs). I read somewhere that the US only gets the mediocre and tired engineers these days, and I think that's true. Someone from MIT or Stanford is increasingly unwilling to wait for 10 years in immigration limbo. In fact, on a PPP basis, they can earn way more in India (this I know first hand), better growth and professional opportunities, etc. I suspect for the bodyshoppers, the quality of life in India is worse than what they can get here, and that's why they are willing to wait for eons.
BTW, a good analogy for all of this is Romney's tax returns. What he did was most likely legal, but do you think most Americans consider it fair even if the system permits it? Same thing here except there might actually be more undetected illegality and fraud here (just the way there is on Wall Street).
I was not being negative at all and I think you misunderstood the post. By clean spending Bill I meant that no other provisions or "riders" were attached to it. I did not imply that this had any spending implications. As the passage of the CR is very important to keep the Govt Funding ongoing,a lot of Congressmen try to attach their own pet projects as they are virtually assured of passage. In this instance,prior to the summer recess I read that the House and Senate leaders had agreed to keep the Bill free of any such additions but the end product does not always end up that way. In this instance they had a CR ready to be circulated on the opening day of the session and after the 48 hour perusal period, it appears like both Chambers are going to bring it to the floor and vote for final passage.
As for the adjournment date I was surprised to see the Sept 21 date on Politico because I felt that they would be in session atleast till the end of the month(which may still be the case). There are Senators like Mrs.McCaskill and Mrs Stabenow who are in very tight races and as the control of the Senate hinges on these races-the Democrats may decide to adjourn earlier to give the embattled Senators more time to campaign.
You are right. I misunderstood the post because I do not understand how bill politics work at the hill. Still your post linking resolution to 3012 gives very clear hint of spreading negative sentiment. Anyway sometimes, negative sentiment also motivate people to be active and support 3012 efforts.
I absolutely agree with you abc. Where the good faith is required, we lack this and it should be brought out if we want to improve as ourselves. AS we are discussing about HR3012 whhich helps Indians in particular, we should also discuss about the other issues which help us.
Nevertheless think about so caled special skills and talents. Why would any IIT or IIM would wait for 10 years to get GC and loose career. No way! I beleive Grassley's strict H1b is very much required as well as HR3012 which shoud stop all these practices.
I find when I talk to people from India, they still have this rosy view of the US. A lot of want to migrate but they've almost never done any research into how long it will take for them to get a GC. So I usually advise them not to even bother since it'll take at least five years.
They are discussing immigration and dream act in senate- you can watch it on C-Span 2.
"As always, we Indians have screwed up the system for ourselves. "
I think you mean to say, "As always some Indians have screwed the system up for other Indians."
I don't believe that there is anything that I did that contributed to my wait except perhaps refusing to marry that girl who was born in Dubai.
But when you see it from India even H1b itself is enough. Most of people coming to USA for staying 5 years or so and go back. After coming everything changes after comparing with neigbors and friends. If you like USA still you are better off even without GC. You can stay indefinitely if you file your GC. GC is added advantage and you will have some flexiblity. Otherwise for american dream GC is not mandatory and nice to have. I am sure this is perspective when you see it from India. It changes after you come here
I'm not disagreeing with you and people have told me the same thing, but I find such thinking foolish and naive (not yours, theirs). Staying indefinitely on H1s or EADs is not a sensible option for most people despite what they think at first - especially not in this shitty economy.
GC is definitely mandatory for the American dream of switching jobs freely, starting your own company and striking it rich, sending your kids to college with financial aid, etc. The main reason I didn't start a company in the US was because I couldn't.
To Ramsen
That may be the case but of late I have also seen numerous people with Green Cards move back to India due to professional/personal reasons.Our usual joke is that if you have sons you stay and if you have daughters you leave before it is too late
To chengisk
Did you ever find the brown basmati rice at Asia Imports on Central Avenue?
I am seeing 90% of GC holders are staying in a job and only 10% or less are starting own company. For those 90% you need GC only for changing jobs frequently. If economy is bad then going back to India or other country is better option. GC is important but not to the level of fighting in the street(rally etc). Continue to lobby and sending emails are enough and GC can get that much respect. But some people in ** are comparing this to the level of freedom struggle or Aparthid or segregation.
That is the reason many new H1bs are getting a job even though economy is bad. The job situation does not improve. The job opportunities in IT improvaed due to the following factors
1. H1b process restrictions
2. Many GC/Citizens going back to India
3. Reduction of outsourcing due to backlash(This is only small amount)
During the drought of any good news, I found one.
http://www.kplu.org/post/microsoft-u...h-skilled-jobs
Conway was also quick to note that immigration reform is seriously needed for continued innovation. The US Senate may take up a minor reform bill, The Fairness In High Skilled Immigrants Act, which would end country-specific caps on high skilled visas (H1-B). However, it’s uncertain whether the Senate will be able to pass the bill that had broad support in the House of Representatives before the election recess.
Read & See More using below link:cool:
http://techcrunch.com/2012/09/11/ron...g-tech-policy/
Another piece of interesting news
http://www.pcadvisor.co.uk/news/netw...stem-jobs-act/
This could be combined with 3012 in lame duck. If this is taken up and not 3012, it would be very bizarre that 3012 was held up and later stalled for so called reason that "it does not protect American workers" but at the same time, they allowed to pass STEM. That would also mean that university lobbying is more powerful than technology industry.
I am indifferent which one passes, because it is sure to alleviate current EB backlog in any case.
I disagree with that. STEM bill is only going to benefit those who take advance degree in STEM fields and in one of the universities selected. I believe it would be applied to the new students and petitioning employer has to petition under STEM quota. It does not reduce current EB2 and EB3 backlog. Even if we say that it would apply to some of the people who are now in EB2 and EB3 category and have graduated from one of the universities selected from STEM, then they would migrate to that category but that number would be pretty small.
I think what Vishnu is suggesting is that it will remove 55000 applicants from the EB2/3 queue and take them to a different queue with visa numbers provided by the DV visa numbers. Obviously I believe they will carry their PD as well. Why do you think the number would be small? I thought a large number of those in the EB3 queue worked on their masters. Also another question, how do you know the it has to be a petition from the employer?
Yeah - but only if it also applies to old students. If so, such a move would benefit me hugely since I will qualify. And I support the safeguards to avoid diploma mills. In fact, these should be enforced on the H1B and GCs as well. Or they should create a queue with the top 200-300 unis and then put the crappy for-profit ones in a different queue.
Even if this is just wishful thinking, the silver lining I guess is that there is still talk.
Let's talk about Eb3 for example which is stuck at 2002. Now, if there are people in Eb3 who qualify for this, only they would move to the new category. So, first assumption is that it applies to existing people and not just new people, second assumption is that there are such people in EB3 who qualify for this and third assumption is that they would move to this category. I have doubts on all these assumptions. Even if first two assumptions are true, there is little incentive for them to move to STEM category because of requirement that they would have to work for five years for the petitioning employer. They are better off using EAD. Same applies to EB2
If those people in EB3 qualified for this, won't they have ported to EB2 by now? And remember the 5 yr experience/education eval in random field does not apply. You actually need a STEM MS.
I would happily move to this from EB2 - I like my employer and don't mind working for them for five years. And actually, it says that they must work with the same emp for five years OR in a STEM occupation.
Rupen - its 5 years for petitioning employer or in STEM field... I work in investment banking and am not entitled to STEM. But most of the Indian backlog is medicine, core engineering and software programming - all of which are entitled to STEM visas (provided they've received the appropriate masters education). Now even if 25% have got a US Masters (those in EB2 backlog), then they will apply under this new category, which will go a long way to helping reduce Eb2 backlogs and eventually EB2. Also, what is the provision for ununsed visas under the 55k? Spill over to EB1-EB3?? Anyway, I think no point debating this too much as it hasnt even passed one section of congress... Remember HR 3012 passed with overwhelming majority in 2011 and still dangling in senate...
Rupen - your views def instigate good debate...We should discuss further after there have been movement on this bill.
The devil will be in the details. There are two bills in the Senate already that add 55K to EB-2, and then give preference to STEM graduates. One of the bills actually said per country caps would not apply to the 55K. By adding them to EB-2, it creates the possiblity of spillover to EB-3.
I always prefer STEM as it is not country dependent, gives prefernce to local advanced degrees in specific field(that's why they get grants) and will promote growth. It will be a win win situation , rather than a bio scientist working on a testing tools in IT(I do not have any complaints for those, but when some one is working in his field of study, he should be given preferece. that's all)
To sportsfan
There are no other outlets except Computerworld reporting this piece of information and Congressman Smith has announced this Bill many times without actually introducing it.The seeds for this legislation were sown last Fall during Committee Hearings and he was supposed to team up with Mr.Griffin of Arkansas to introduce this last December.Talk came up again in June 2012 just before Congress returned after July 4 that he would introduce it in July according to the widely circulated letter from Russell Harrison of IEEE-USA. It is unclear why he waited for so long till the serious legislative window is almost over before introducing it.It does coincide somehow with the letter circulated by University Heads. It also requires 2/3 majority if it has to be passed under suspension of rules and I am not sure if there is significant Democratic support for abolition of the Diversity visa. Rep.Lofgren introduced a STEM Bill last year HR 2161 which was a more comprehensive Bill than a similar Bill introduced by Rep.Labrador which only concentrated on high skill immigration but failed to win any Democratic co-sponsorship.
The Senate is a different story altogether. The DV visas were known as Schumer visas and he may object to bringing up this Bill altogether if abolition were an option unless he gets significant concessions from the Republicans in return. In contrast to HR 3012 where a formal hold was placed to slow it down-the Democrats can achieve the same results through inaction. Interestingly Senator Cornyn's STAR Act with provisions broadly similar to Rep.Smith's Bill has found no co-sponsors so far from either party. The best thing that can come out of all this is that the ideas have been planted fro increasing high skill immigration and it may all be a matter of time and timing before there is success.
The way things are shaping up Congress may be required to work much harder in the lame Duck session than at any other point during its term!! Tax-cut extensions,fiscal cliff etc etc already on its plate and a bunch of immigration legislation thrown in.
I still cannot understand how addition of 55000 visas a year in a country of 315 million people is so difficult. Why should it require abolition of one category of visas to make room for others.Human capital is precious and to assume that the graduates of American Universities are somehow superior to people like in the story below who have worked to realize their dream is ridiculous
http://www.charleston.af.mil/news/st...p?id=123315146
I was described as negative a few pages ago but I hope negativity is not confused with objectivity. As sportsfan describes-the headwinds are strong and status quo is a very powerful force!!
Would Eb3 people have not ported to Eb2, not really. I know many people who are in eb3 and have not ported to eb2 since it is the job that should require eb2 criteria. So, if there existing job does not require eb2 criteria, they can not port to eb2 unless they change the job. Changing job which would sponsor eb2 is not that easy in this political and economic environment.
In the employment world, idea of diversity is weird. One would expect that one would get green card based on the qualification rather than their country of origin. That is the idea behind 3012 and STEM. Why it is difficult to add 55000 more rather than abolishing the category? Because it is politics. They would like to tell that they are not adding more green cards in this economy where unemployment rate is more than 8%. But it is ok to allow DACA which would give 1.7 million people EAD because that would fetch them more votes. If adding 55,000 green cards meant getting more votes, they would have done that.
Comparing HR 3012 with STEM is simply wrong. Both have different purpose. STEM is not going to help existing people in EB categories, if it is applied to new students. Even if it is applied to existing people in EB categories, its effect is not going to be significant as 3012 for the reason mentioned in other post.
To sportsfan
I think now that it is going to happen next week
http://influencealley.nationaljourna...-immigrati.php
To quote from the same article
"Congressional Democrats and the White House are urging companies not to support the bill, arguing they've not had enough time to review it, Republicans say."
Serious intent or mere posturing?
The Hill also has this in their overnight TECH segment
"Lamar Smith expected to drop high-skilled immigration bill: House Judiciary Committee Chairman Lamar Smith (R-Texas) is expected to drop a high-skilled immigration bill on Friday that would create two new visa categories aimed at keeping foreign-born graduates in science, technology, engineering and math (STEM) fields in the United States, according to two people familiar with the matter.
The bill would create one visa category for recipients of master's degrees in a STEM field and the other category would be dedicated to Ph.D. graduates in a STEM field. The visas created in the bill would be permanent and the two categories will each include a different set of criteria for people to meet. It would also eliminate the diversity visa program, one source said, which might not go over well with some House Democrats.
The bill is expected to be taken up in the House for a vote sometime next week. There will be a meeting with various industry representatives in the GOP whip's office on Friday morning to gauge their support for the bill, according to the two sources. Smith has also floated a compromise proposal for his bill to the Congressional Hispanic Caucus. A spokeswoman for Smith did not respond to a request for comment about the forthcoming measure. "
So BHO had time to review the deferred action EA that he passed overnight, but not something that gives GCs to STEM MS/PhDs that he has supported in the past. Two faced lying SOB.
Sorry I know it's election year politics, but just had to vent.
It is not 2 categories. From the link, it looked like one category to me. It says "Green cards not used by PhDs would be available to those with STEM master's degrees.". EB1, where PHDs apply, unused numbers from that category would flow here as opposed to EB2. Or I have not interpreted right. But this looks like a tough one to pass seeing democratic and white house opposition.
Agree with you wholeheartedly. This REALLY sours me on the Democrats.
Also, I love how idiots say that foreigners are driving down STEM wages and this is why Americans don't study science/engineering (and study shit like Russian studies and LGBT studies instead - I'm not saying those aren't important, but you have to look at what's the right proportion). That is such a bullshit argument because if they actually looked at the freakin' statistics, they'd find that engineers still make the most money out of all majors. So it's a bullshit argument. While there are some incredibly hardworking and smart engineers I know (American, European, etc.), STEM wages have nothing to do with whether one studies STEM or not - either people dislike STEM or they think it's too hard. It's never the damn wages.