Discussion of Bills that remove the Per Country Limits - H.R.3012, H,R. 213

Firstly, let's not give too much credibility to these "I have inside information that I'm not supposed to share but here is a hint" kind of posts.

Secondly, even if this dude has some inside info, I don't think he was suggesting that they'll add this to the cybersecurity bill. I think he was bringing attention to the 'vote next week' part of the quote, with the idea that once that's done they'll take up 3012. Long stretch, but adding 3012 as an amendment to the cybersecurity bill seems a longer stretch to me.

Same O Same O...

http://www.murthy.com/2012/07/30/h-r...tive-proposal/

A long article to say nothing more... but does once again mention additional holds, and amendments

No wonder Murthy is an attorney. who now oppposes H.r.3012. any attorney site bluffs nowadays. Ron, Murthy, OH etc etc... so take the above article as false.

Agree Jonty. That's why I am skeptical about Harry Reid's comments. They almost look like a codeword about - we don't really want to do this.

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Originally Posted by Jonty Rhodes

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I am sure this bill will be killed if amendments like these are added on it.

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HR3012 would be passed only after the Nov elections. Otherwise, we would have received update by now.

It appears so. I am having doubts if this ever could become law.

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Originally Posted by A_Tech_Softie

HR3012 would be passed only after the Nov elections. Otherwise, we would have received update by now.

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Originally Posted by bvsamrat

It appears so. I am having doubts if this ever could become law.

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<sigh> There is a lot of headwind against the bill now. It had virtually none in the house. The opposition took cognizance after Grassley did his hold. Opposition just blossomed after he undid his hold and is now a rushing flood with his amendments. Yet all seems serene in the world of senate.

If it is not passed before the election, the momentum will be lost and it is hard to tell if and when it would pass. Every time we thought this bill is dead, it has come back and surprised us. It seems difficult to stay positive though. There is absolutely no new news coming out. Last week, someone suggested it could be added to Cyber Security. Although this seems weird, weird seems to be the norm in senate. Schumer was planning to introduce gun control amendment to cyber security. He could as well add HR 3012 to it.

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Originally Posted by rupen86

If it is not passed before the election, the momentum will be lost and it is hard to tell if and when it would pass. Every time we thought this bill is dead, it has come back and surprised us. It seems difficult to stay positive though. There is absolutely no new news coming out. Last week, someone suggested it could be added to Cyber Security. Although this seems weird, weird seems to be the norm in senate. Schumer was planning to introduce gun control amendment to cyber security. He could as well add HR 3012 to it.

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NOw the talk is to add it to senator Leahy's EB5 bill.

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Originally Posted by chengisk

NOw the talk is to add it to senator Leahy's EB5 bill.

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That being the case, they can introduce it in late September when EB5 is about to expire. That will create some urgency to pass it but I had read that EB5 is already added to appropriation bill. May be, they do not take up that appropriation bill which will create some kind of urgency to pass 3012 along with EB5. That being the case, we have to rest till September which seems to be the case now as I think chances of passing it before August recess seems very bleak now. Do we know Senate's September schedule ?

According to Bloomberg article today, House & Senate leaders said to agree on stopgap bill. House Speaker John Boehner may announce the agreement as soon as today, they said. A Senate Democratic leadership aide also said House and Senate negotiators are nearing an agreement on a six-month stopgap funding bill at the level agreed to in the August 2011 Budget Control Act, which also increased the nation’s debt ceiling.

I think EB5 extention gets included in this, and my gut (and based on nothing else) says HR 3012 could be included in this bill too.

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Originally Posted by rupen86

That being the case, they can introduce it in late September when EB5 is about to expire. That will create some urgency to pass it but I had read that EB5 is already added to appropriation bill. May be, they do not take up that appropriation bill which will create some kind of urgency to pass 3012 along with EB5. That being the case, we have to rest till September which seems to be the case now as I think chances of passing it before August recess seems very bleak now. Do we know Senate's September schedule ?

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Their September schedule is from Sept 10-14 and 19-21.

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Originally Posted by vishnu

According to Bloomberg article today, House & Senate leaders said to agree on stopgap bill. House Speaker John Boehner may announce the agreement as soon as today, they said. A Senate Democratic leadership aide also said House and Senate negotiators are nearing an agreement on a six-month stopgap funding bill at the level agreed to in the August 2011 Budget Control Act, which also increased the nation’s debt ceiling.

I think EB5 extention gets included in this, and my gut (and based on nothing else) says HR 3012 could be included in this bill too.

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I doubt they will do that. Reid has cautioned against including unrelated amendments. I think if this is to be done, this would be done as a separate bill combined with EB5 bill.

ur point is very valid, Dems do not want to give in to Repub on immigration

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Originally Posted by rupen86

If it is not passed before the election, the momentum will be lost and it is hard to tell if and when it would pass. Every time we thought this bill is dead, it has come back and surprised us. It seems difficult to stay positive though. There is absolutely no new news coming out. Last week, someone suggested it could be added to Cyber Security. Although this seems weird, weird seems to be the norm in senate. Schumer was planning to introduce gun control amendment to cyber security. He could as well add HR 3012 to it.

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Originally Posted by rupen86

I doubt they will do that. Reid has cautioned against including unrelated amendments. I think if this is to be done, this would be done as a separate bill combined with EB5 bill.

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http://finance.yahoo.com/news/reid-b...184551028.html

The details of this will be ironed out in August recess. We have to see what gets included in this.

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Originally Posted by cbpds1

ur point is very valid, Dems do not want to give in to Repub on immigration

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It is probably naive but I think they didn't hold negotiations and put effort in convincing Grassley to lift the hold for nothing. If they really didn't want to or never really cared, why do all that drama? Not that drama will help boost their image and would be easy to let Grassley take blame for its death.

There are some people in the Senate who think it is good idea and want to get it done. That's our only hope.

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Originally Posted by cbpds1

ur point is very valid, Dems do not want to give in to Repub on immigration

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This is what exactly mentioned in earlier posts, so H.R.3012 is going to be only after the Senate recess, or for sure after November elections

Probably this is what happening.

Mr.Reid will maximum try not to take this bill before elections! but Schumer wants this passed ASAP, due to pressure from NY based Tech lobbyists. Depends on Harry Reid's decision. that means (White house advisory). mostly after elections!

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Originally Posted by immitime

This is what exactly mentioned in earlier posts, so H.R.3012 is going to be only after the Senate recess, or for sure after November elections

Probably this is what happening.

Mr.Reid will maximum try not to take this bill before elections! but Schumer wants this passed ASAP, due to pressure from NY based Tech lobbyists. Depends on Harry Reid's decision. that means (White house advisory). mostly after elections!

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I am not sure how much political mileage one can get with this bill. This is not something that general public would be aware of. It is not discussed in mainstream media. Those who support this are not voters. Those who oppose this are not voters.

http://www.imminfo.com/News/Newslett...e-july-31.html

Lots of people have posted on their blog that they know nothing in 1500 words or less.... and Ron's joined the ranks.

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Originally Posted by rupen86

I am not sure how much political mileage one can get with this bill. This is not something that general public would be aware of. It is not discussed in mainstream media. Those who support this are not voters. Those who oppose this are not voters.

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Its all Politics, at least if this bill passes Republicans can claim credit when subject of immigration comes up, at least during Presidential debate.

Think of Republican canditate scoring points by saying that our immigration bill initiated by our Congress rep, passed Congress & Senate and we can do bipartisan. And this is the matter of Real Legal Immigration. A sensitive issue like immigration score votes. They will show in such a way that at the same time President has given back door amnesty to children of Illegal Mexicans! overcoming congress decision that is a great point during this elections.

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Originally Posted by chengisk

http://www.imminfo.com/News/Newslett...e-july-31.html

Lots of people have posted on their blog that they know nothing in 1500 words or less.... and Ron's joined the ranks.

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Before lame duck, in September, putting this as part of EB5 might be doable thing. At this point, unless some magic happens, passing it before August recess seem negligible.

Check page 71 (Under rules... etc)

http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/CCAL-11...2012-08-01.pdf

OK. Thanks for sharing. So what is next ?

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Originally Posted by chengisk

Check page 71 (Under rules... etc)

http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/CCAL-11...2012-08-01.pdf

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Originally Posted by immitime

Its all Politics, at least if this bill passes Republicans can claim credit when subject of immigration comes up, at least during Presidential debate.

Think of Republican canditate scoring points by saying that our immigration bill initiated by our Congress rep, passed Congress & Senate and we can do bipartisan. And this is the matter of Real Legal Immigration. A sensitive issue like immigration score votes. They will show in such a way that at the same time President has given back door amnesty to children of Illegal Mexicans! overcoming congress decision that is a great point during this elections.

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I agree that it is politics. But that being the case, there was no need to negotiate. They could have allowed hold to remain until the election was over. Then democrats could claim that Republicans are holding the bill. I would think that after the hold was lifted, new situation might have emerged as some people are suggesting about silent holds or that there is a plan to make it a bigger bill may be in September.

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Originally Posted by longgcque

OK. Thanks for sharing. So what is next ?

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I doubt if even the Hon. Senators know the answer to that question. Today and tomorrow they will wrangle with S.3414 as cloture was filed for that bill yesterday. However I see that it contains nearly 150 amendments to it. That includes EB-5 and Conrad 30 (which was a separate bill - S.3245). But what is going to be an issue is an amendment on ammunition control from Sen. Lautenberg that is being attached to 3414. Unless someone negotiates the removal of ammunition amendment, S.3414 is a dead bill. I believe they got till tomorrow to do this. I am 99% sure there is no amendment that includes the H.R.3012 language in it among the list of amendments to S.3414.

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Originally Posted by chengisk

Check page 71 (Under rules... etc)

http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/CCAL-11...2012-08-01.pdf

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I think HOLD was officially removed on July 11. most probably the GPO website was finally updated on 1st day of August.

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Originally Posted by chengisk

I doubt if even the Hon. Senators know the answer to that question. Today and tomorrow they will wrangle with S.3414 as cloture was filed for that bill yesterday. However I see that it contains nearly 150 amendments to it. That includes EB-5 and Conrad 30 (which was a separate bill - S.3245). But what is going to be an issue is an amendment on ammunition control from Sen. Lautenberg that is being attached to 3414. Unless someone negotiates the removal of ammunition amendment, S.3414 is a dead bill. I believe they got till tomorrow to do this. I am 99% sure there is no amendment that includes the H.R.3012 language in it among the list of amendments to S.3414.

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Reid is suggesting that he does not like unrelated amendment. Don't know why that does not apply to gun control amendment as that has been proposed by Schumer. Going by that logic, EB5 should also not be part of it. Let's see whether this passes and with which amendments.

Is this is True?

Just now Trackitt posted HR3012 was passed in senate. Is this is true.

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Originally Posted by redsox2009

Is this is True?

Just now Trackitt posted HR3012 was passed in senate. Is this is true.

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You rely on trackitt forum? :o
It is replete with madmen...

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Originally Posted by chengisk

You rely on trackitt forum? :o
It is replete with madmen...

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:D Lol good one. Redsox buddy you would have seen tons of articles erupt on the national media if HR3012 got passed. It will not happen so silently.

Anywaz I agree with many of the posters who have posted above, most probably the best chance would be in September.I do not see the senate getting beyond S3414 today or tomorrow.

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Originally Posted by rupen86

Reid is suggesting that he does not like unrelated amendment. Don't know why that does not apply to gun control amendment as that has been proposed by Schumer. Going by that logic, EB5 should also not be part of it. Let's see whether this passes and with which amendments.

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In other words Reid is stalling ...all his statements so far have been intrepreted by the masses as being favourable. Gun control is a favourite topic for the democrats, EB5 is another favourite topic for both parties since it is related to setting up businesses and generating jobs ( that's the spin ) . So both of them will be allowed to piggy back on rest of the bills.

There is a possibilty of this Bill getting voted.

Based on this article, Bill is introduced as Hotline bill.
http://www.immigrateme.com/senator-g...ills-h-r-3012/

Hotline bill doesn't come to senate floor for voting, below article.

http://www.coburn.senate.gov/public/?p=HoldingSpending

Crossing my fingers.............Hope voting occured and bill passed.................:confused:

Wont I V broadcast this already if it would have happen ... only t r k i t t is abuzz with this news .. as someone started a thread there that 3012 has passed.

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Originally Posted by redsox2009

There is a possibilty of this Bill getting voted.

Based on this article, Bill is introduced as Hotline bill.
http://www.immigrateme.com/senator-g...ills-h-r-3012/

Hotline bill doesn't come to senate floor for voting, below article.

http://www.coburn.senate.gov/public/?p=HoldingSpending

Crossing my fingers.............Hope voting occured and bill passed.................:confused:

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Originally Posted by redsox2009

Based on this article, Bill is introduced as Hotline bill.
http://www.immigrateme.com/senator-g...ills-h-r-3012/

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The first article link is not dated and look at the statements it is referring to the first Sen. Grassley's amendment back in Dec 2011. "To release his hold Grassley wants dramatic changes including: reducing the employment based per-country limit to 15% and eliminating the family per-county limit increase."

Anyways, I don't know how you interpreted that the bill as Hotline bill?

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Originally Posted by A_Tech_Softie

The first article link is not dated and look at the statements it is referring to the first Sen. Grassley's amendment back in Dec 2011. "To release his hold Grassley wants dramatic changes including: reducing the employment based per-country limit to 15% and eliminating the family per-county limit increase."

Anyways, I don't know how you interpreted that the bill as Hotline bill?

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First few lines from article............

"Rep. Chafetz’ bill (H.R. 3012) which would phase out the per-country limit for employment-based immigrants and increase the limit for family-based passed the House. It was put into the “hotline” process in the Senate, which means that the bill can be halted if any member objects. And, not surprisingly Senator Grassley put a hold on it."

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Originally Posted by redsox2009

First few lines from article............

"Rep. Chafetz’ bill (H.R. 3012) which would phase out the per-country limit for employment-based immigrants and increase the limit for family-based passed the House. It was put into the “hotline” process in the Senate, which means that the bill can be halted if any member objects. And, not surprisingly Senator Grassley put a hold on it."

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This hotline news had come in December. That's when it might have been put on hotline. But there is no news of hotline now.

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Originally Posted by rupen86

This hotline news had come in December. That's when it might have been put on hotline. But there is no news of hotline now.

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This news did not come as hotline news, it clearly says Bill is placed in Hotline Process. I don't know if the bill in senate will change if hold is placed or it will no more holds good as Hotline process.

Anyway lets cross our fingers and hope for the best..........................

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Originally Posted by redsox2009

This news did not come as hotline news, it clearly says Bill is placed in Hotline Process. I don't know if the bill in senate will change if hold is placed or it will no more holds good as Hotline process.

Anyway lets cross our fingers and hope for the best..........................

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It says it was put on hotline process but does not tell when. It is most likely referring to December.

I don't think the senate rules allow hotlining a bill that is going to be amended....unless ofcourse 'uncleji' is now willing to let it pass without his LCA changes.

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Originally Posted by kuku82

I don't think the senate rules allow hotlining a bill that is going to be amended....unless ofcourse 'uncleji' is now willing to let it pass without his LCA changes.

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There is no hotlining going on. All the hoopla was based on some crazy comments on Trackitt. Even if the bill is hotlined ( first of all big if ) it is brought up to be voted at the end of the day. Also hotline is reserved for non controversial bills.

It is the stress causing all this...first there was the rumour that it is getting attached to Cybersecurity...then it was that it is being clubbed with EB5....then that it has become part of the 70 amendments on S3414.

And now Hotlining.