Discussion of Bills that remove the Per Country Limits - H.R.3012, H,R. 213

To kd2008

Lots of confusion this AM after the report from Ron Gotcher's website.But Tatikonda who posted the first news has now confirmed that the hold is still in place after he called the Senator's office personally. This Bill, if the hold is released unconditionally without amendments,will pass with unanimous consent at the earliest possible opportunity after the release of the hold.One can cite the examples of the FCC nominees being confirmed on May 7 (Monday)as soon as the Senate returned from its recess. An earlier news report from CQ which started off all these rumors/discussion about the hold being lifted seemed to suggest that there were 2 other Republican senators opposing this Bill although no identities were revealed. I agree with Kanmani in one of these threads when she says that there have been no change in the underlying dynamics of this Bill for Sen.Grassley to change his stance.

Before passing with unanimous consent (if at all we get to that stage), the bill needs to be amended to change the transition period years starting FY2013 onwards.....

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by gs1968

To kd2008

Lots of confusion this AM after the report from Ron Gotcher's website.But Tatikonda who posted the first news has now confirmed that the hold is still in place after he called the Senator's office personally. This Bill, if the hold is released unconditionally without amendments,will pass with unanimous consent at the earliest possible opportunity after the release of the hold.One can cite the examples of the FCC nominees being confirmed on May 7 (Monday)as soon as the Senate returned from its recess. An earlier news report from CQ which started off all these rumors/discussion about the hold being lifted seemed to suggest that there were 2 other Republican senators opposing this Bill although no identities were revealed. I agree with Kanmani in one of these threads when she says that there have been no change in the underlying dynamics of this Bill for Sen.Grassley to change his stance.

---

Another interesting article about a House Equivalent to the Start Up Act but I am not sure what the prospects are-Please draw your own conclusions

http://nationaljournal.com/daily/sen...sures-20120605

I apologize for posting in bits and pieces but we should make an attempt to watch this on Sunday

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/liv...gration-333365

Apparently he is interviewing Michael Bloomberg

Tatikonda - got your message. My hunch is Grassley has indeed lifted his hold. However doesn't want to acknolwledge for some reason - may be waiting for right time and place to declare it. I said the same thing to Pedro 3-4 days back. So when I saw your post this morning - it only strengthened my initial hunch.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by tatikonda

I called Senator Grassley Office, 202 224 3744 and They say that Bill is STILL ON HOLD.

---

http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c112:H.R.5893:
H.R. 5893, was introduced today by Republicans Michael Grimm (N.Y.), with the Republican co-sponsores Kevin Yoder (Kan.), Devin Nunes (R-Calif.) and Robert Dold (Ill.), and Democrat co-sponsors Loretta Sanchez (Calif.), Russ Carnahan (Mo.) and Jared Polis (Colo.). This bill contains elimination of per country limit to the employment-based immigration from the current immigration statute.

www.washingtonpost.com/business
/on-small-business/startup-act-20-house-lawmakers-introduce-senators-immigration-reform-bill/2012/06/05/gJQAAVHnGV_story.html

Looks like many trackitt users are getting message that HOLD has been lifted when they called Grassley's office now. Still, we have to wait until it is confirmed.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ton_vj

http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c112:H.R.5893:
H.R. 5893, was introduced today by Republicans Michael Grimm (N.Y.), with the Republican co-sponsores Kevin Yoder (Kan.), Devin Nunes (R-Calif.) and Robert Dold (Ill.), and Democrat co-sponsors Loretta Sanchez (Calif.), Russ Carnahan (Mo.) and Jared Polis (Colo.). This bill contains elimination of per country limit to the employment-based immigration from the current immigration statute.

www.washingtonpost.com/business
/on-small-business/startup-act-20-house-lawmakers-introduce-senators-immigration-reform-bill/2012/06/05/gJQAAVHnGV_story.html

---

I called the Hon. Mr. Grassley directly to confirm.

He never picked up the phone:
http://thehill.com/video/senate/2313...g-floor-speech

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by manubhai

I called the Hon. Mr. Grassley directly to confirm.

He never picked up the phone:
http://thehill.com/video/senate/2313...g-floor-speech

---

LOL.. ! Appreciate your perseverance :)

Looks like someone in Mr. Grassley's office got pissed off with the number of calls about the same topic and started answering "YES" in frustration! :)

Do not miss this week "Fareed Zakaria GPS" Sunday at 10 a.m. and 1 p.m. ET

http://cnnpressroom.blogs.cnn.com/20...tical-special/

It is so sad that there is something like this news story happening almost daily.This is the reason why no STEM based Bill is ever going to make it through Congress without significant struggle

https://www.numbersusa.com/content/n...isa-fraud.html

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by gs1968

It is so sad that there is something like this news story happening almost daily.This is the reason why no STEM based Bill is ever going to make it through Congress without significant struggle

https://www.numbersusa.com/content/n...isa-fraud.html

---

And also why such a bill wouldn't be perfect (even though I stand to benefit from such a bill). The moment such a bill passes, diploma mills will be set up and Indians will come in in droves. Think about it - the only cost of a GC will be a MS program in a STEM degree. What do you think all Indian families with $50-70k to spare will do? Even if they don't have it, people will beg, borrow and steal to get a MS in the US. The system will eventually break down again because the supply of potential immigrants is too high. What is required is quality control. I think Cornyn's bill had a clause that qualifying universities need to have at least $5MM in federal research funding. I think this should be increased to a more substantial figure or some University ranking filters need to be added. I realize rankings are flawed but I don't have a better solution.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by gs1968

It is so sad that there is something like this news story happening almost daily.This is the reason why no STEM based Bill is ever going to make it through Congress without significant struggle

https://www.numbersusa.com/content/n...isa-fraud.html

---

Any system will have fraud. There are agencies responsible to investigate and deal with them. Having caught a fraud in the SEVIS system is no reason to abandon SEVIS altogether.

Again the same tactic by NUSA. Their argument, there was an instance of fraud in the system, eliminate the system itself. ( Unfortunately we immigrants fall for their tactic)

Real solution:
Fraud ? let ICE handle it.
Let the SEVIS program continue as is, as there is nothing wrong with the system.

Funny Stuff from Mr.Grassley

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...WN-iPhone.html

Politico has corrected their article. The hope-inducing sentence has been corrected to "Grassley recently announced he was working on an agreement to lift his hold on a bill by Rep. Jason Chaffetz (R-Utah) that would eliminate the employment-based per-country visa cap." I'm almost certain that refers to his non-starter amendments from back in December. I have no reason to believe that anything else is in the works.
Also "An earlier version of this story incorrectly said that Sen. Grassley had lifted a hold on Rep. Chaffetz’ bill."

The whole article is at http://www.politico.com/news/stories...#ixzz1xV051z66

Guys, what impact does this have on the other bills advocating removal of per country caps? Once again, legal immigration falls by the wayside when it comes to immigration 'reform' -

http://www.cnn.com/2012/06/15/politi...html?hpt=hp_t1

Under present conditions US immigration means (I)LLegal only!... the most part of the immigration that politicians care is for Illegal people due to the votes they get from their supporters!... Legals any way pay tax! do everything Legal. so they can wait. That is the attitude of the Administration. And there is a Insider group which is benefitted by this called AILA.. all the attorneys make money! so this is a kind of insider trading!. Apart from it the Anti immigrants who support GrassUncle's hold, in the name of Protection of Jobs in US! Election Year anything can happen! wait for more circus when the Presidential debate starts!:rolleyes:

Relief for Skilled Immigration community is coming folks. Let's keep our fingers crossed.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by immitime

Under present conditions US immigration means (I)LLegal only!... the most part of the immigration that politicians care is for Illegal people due to the votes they get from their supporters!... Legals any way pay tax! do everything Legal. so they can wait. That is the attitude of the Administration. And there is a Insider group which is benefitted by this called AILA.. all the attorneys make money! so this is a kind of insider trading!. Apart from it the Anti immigrants who support GrassUncle's hold, in the name of Protection of Jobs in US! Election Year anything can happen! wait for more circus when the Presidential debate starts!:rolleyes:

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mavrick

Relief for Skilled Immigration community is coming folks. Let's keep our fingers crossed.

---

I hope your optimism pays off! :)

Finally some silverline, new negotiations happening with Grassuncle on H.R.3012

http://www.aila.org/mobile/default.aspx?mode=all

Full text posted on Ron Gotcher's imminfo forum link below

http://www.immigration-information.c...ad.php?t=17482

Read the latest message on AILA website

Given the Politico article and now this, I am definitely starting to become more constructive on HR 3012. There is a small part of me which thinks that CO has moved EB2 ROW dates to 2009 (with talk that there may be cut off dates for even EB1) to reflect possible implemenetation of 3012 (as it would have to be retroactively applied to 2012 October). Just can't think of any other reason why CO would have been so reckless in moving EB2 IC dates so agressively and handing out GCs for 2008 and some 2009 applicants

This is my 2 cents

EB2 WW date COD to 2009 and also EB2 U as it is now
May now get combined with a single COD by FY2013
It appears heading that way

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by immitime

Finally some silverline, new negotiations happening with Grassuncle on H.R.3012

http://www.aila.org/mobile/default.aspx?mode=all

Full text posted on Ron Gotcher's imminfo forum link below

http://www.immigration-information.c...ad.php?t=17482

Read the latest message on AILA website

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by immitime

Finally some silverline, new negotiations happening with Grassuncle on H.R.3012

http://www.aila.org/mobile/default.aspx?mode=all

Full text posted on Ron Gotcher's imminfo forum link below

http://www.immigration-information.c...ad.php?t=17482

Read the latest message on AILA website

---

Looks promising..

Due to President Obama's executive order, the antis have sprung in to action. They will start posting malicious articles by droves in the media pretty soon. They will paint illegals and legals in the same brush.

This means all politicians will run away from any immigration related legislative actions.

Sen. Grassley's demands are not extreme in my personal opinion. But I am not the broker for the deal. So I don't know what other people in negotiations think of it.

While I have wistful smile reading his amendment, I realistically do not expect it to go anywhere.

Please refrain from engaging in any verbal duel with the antis on any of the forums, in comments to any online articles. Do not bad mouth ROWs, illegals etc. If you wish to comment then just put forth your argument of fairness and economic benefits.

Also please do not conflate the visa bulletin date movement with the HR 3012 activity. The two are separate and independent. We do not need to raise suspicion when none exists. Mr. CO has no stake in HR 3012, probably hasn't read it, won't care for it one way or the other - it is not his concern whatsoever. There are no inside shenanigans or anything.

very sensible thoughts KD2008...makes sense

In the coming days, the U.S. Senate is expected to consider bipartisan legislation modernizing how green cards are awarded to equally skilled individuals. The bill would replace the per country cap with a more equitable, first-come-first served system – a change that would shorten the wait times for work visas for people from countries, such as India and China that generate large numbers of engineers and scientists. The tech sector is organizing a letter to show industry support for this important proposal. A strong showing of support from the industry most affected by this outdated system will help underscore the importance of this legislation to the industry and its workforce.

The tech industry letter in support of repealing per-country limit can be found at https://docs.google.com/a/technet.or...1WN0E6MA#gid=0

Please let the HR of your company know about this. Write a personal note on how you are affected by per-country limits. Ask them to sign the letter.

Also tell your friends working in other companies.

The deadline is June 26, 2012.

HR-3012 is ready for senate vote as per **

http://www.trackitt.com/usa-discussi...page/last_page

HR-3012 is ready for senate vote as per **

http://www.trackitt.com/usa-discussi...page/last_page

http://immigration-law.com/ also claims that Grassley is planning to lift hold on H.R.3012.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mavrick

HR-3012 is ready for senate vote as per **

http://www.trackitt.com/usa-discussi...page/last_page

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mavrick

HR-3012 is ready for senate vote as per **

http://www.trackitt.com/usa-discussi...page/last_page

---

http://immigration-law.com/ also claims that Grassley is planning to lift hold on H.R.3012.

Yes, we are seeing these news out there. But nothing is official and request everyone's patience. There is still a ton of work to be done. And the fight will get much harder if they get serious about the bill. Please be ready to contact law makers at a later appropriate time and to ask for their vote on the bill.

To immitime,Spec,Q and others
Thank you for maintaining a very clean,informative and decent blog that is always fun visiting.I have been visiting this blog for much longer than my date of joining indicates. I strongly feel that this week will see H.R 3012 passed through both houses.The senate version will most likely pass by voice vote/unanimous consent on Monday and House concurrence later in the week before the July 4 recess. The momentum for this Bill is significant given the incorporation of its language in numerous Bills by multiple lawmakers and so if not stand-alone it would have passed as part of some other Bill. There is no need to discuss the merits and demerits of this Bill as everybody has had plenty of time to do this in a very civil fashion in this blog and a more boisterous and foul language in other forums (no names here!).
I am a US citizen of Indian origin and stand to gain nothing from this Bill. However the lack of courage on the part of our lawmakers to pass a more sweeping legislation to help improve EB immigration is shocking. We are in direct competition wit other Anglo-philic societies like Canada,Australia,New Zealand,Singapore etc and no other country is as flat-footed with its policy as the USA. The ceiling of 140,000 per year was set in 1990 when the total population was 248 million which has by now grown to 313 million. This number represents an addition of 0.03% of the total population annually. On a different note-unlike other categories-most EB visas are AOS and these individuals have already been counted in the census-some long-time waiters probably had the misfortune of being counted in 2 census 10 years apart. Furthermore as the population increases by roughly 30 million per decade this figure will become almost invisible!
The irony is that people's lives are hanging in balance due to completely arbitrary numbers at various stages in the legislative process.I would direct attention to this article if you have not already read it
http://www.ilw.com/articles/2012,0201-endelman.shtm

Towards the end of the article are details of the conference reports on how this number of 140000 was arrived at (totally arbitrary). I have always wondered that if the original language of the bill with 75000 EB visas and exemptions for dependents would have made these backlogs a lot less.My calculations based on recent statistics show that we would have ended up with about 180000 annually for a total increase of about 500000 visas in the past decade. Till the economy improves this cap is not going away anywhere anytime soon and this is sych a shame.
Compare this to immigration policies in Australia,Canada and NZ.This is a link to the migration policy statistics for 2011 in Australia

http://www.immi.gov.au/media/statist...am-2010-11.pdf

The skill stream accounts for 67% of immigration compared to roughly 13% for the USA.What is interesting is that Australia with an estimated population of 21 million admits the same number of skilled immigrants annually as the USA with a population of 313 million. The other stark comparison is the nimble policy making from these predominantly Parliamentary democracies which allows them to scale immigration up or down based on the economy and specific needs. In the USA this happens annually with refugee ceilings as ordered by the President after consulting with Congress and I have always wondered if somebody with adequate foresight cannot create something similar for EB immigration also.

What this current Bill will do for the future of immigration is unclear and too soon to predict.The obvious winners will be the heavily backlogged I/C individuals between 2003 and 2006 but once the dust settles after the run-in years I feel that these 2 countries will take up about 50% of the EB2/EB3 quotas annually. The most recent data suggest that China is the provider of most international students to the USA-a position long held by India

http://www.iie.org/en/Research-and-P...Origin/2009-11

Cumulatively these 2 countries account for about 36% of all students in the USA and these numbers will be reflected in EB immigration going forward.I also feel that this data is the most significant driver of this Bill.Most of the current backlog at this time is related to the early 2000s tech boom where the H-1B caps were raised to 195000 and once these are cleared with this Bill-there should be much smoother movement. There can also be a shift in the business practices of the off-shoring companies all of whom are increasing hires in the USA.I also feel that the EB filing patterns of individuals of all countries will start to change and there will be significant motivation to get in line early and not wait for the perfect employer as they are probably doing now.

I will not get into details about the STEM visa Bills but I strongly feel that these should not be at the expense of the DV category. This was created by the same Act of Congress as the H-1B visa and EB categories and serves a purpose of its own.The Diversity Visa is the classical pinata everybody wants to whack at every year. I agree that the visa program at this time is not giving the same results for the Europeans as it was originally envisaged but has opened up opportunities for numerous countries to send their citizens here. Sen.Schumer who was one of the main architects behind the Bill in 1990 (used to be called Schumer Visas) will fight very hard to retain the Program.The republicans will fight this program for the same reason they fight Medicare/Social Security etc-these are Democratic ideas. The premise that because only a high school diploma is needed, the USA is getting rejects from everywhere is not always true. Please read the stories below

http://thecollegianur.com/2011/11/17...la-hart/24175/

http://www.firsthealth.org/About%20F...al%20Group.asp

http://www.timesherald.com/article/2...FE01/120529997

The lack of will to even suggest an increase in EB visas to accommodate these STEM graduates is startling. The question always seems to be " Where are these 50000 visas going to come from?" For heaven's sake-Just add them on to what we have!!!

The recent DREAM announcement lead me to another thought and I was hoping other members would voice their thought. I am friends with a family who came here in 2000 with a 3 year old daughter who is soon to be 16 and are still waiting in EB3 with a PD in Oct 2004.I see in her the EB equivalent of DREAM as I am not sure what her status would be in 2 years when she turns 18 if they are not approved by them.She is also somebody who can legitimately call herself a legal DREAMER and I am sure she is not the only one.

I stopped visiting another forum regularly as I could not stand the language being used but this Bill has truly brought out the darker side in people which I hope will settle once this becomes law. Most of us EB immigrants have seen nothing in life compared to some Karen Burmese refugees for whom I volunteered to teach English in my spare time last year.The stories I heard of the atrocities were beyond description and I strongly suggest to all friends in this forum at various stages of immigration to stop worrying about this and spend some time with refugees like these in your area to truly understand the value of the American dream

I apologize that my post got too long but even after having long completed the immigration process I am still frustrated at the difficulties we encounter in creating sensible policies that will help this country in the long run. I feel that 3012 is a helpful step but not enough by any means.A prospective filer in 2012 under EB3 still faces a 11-12 year wait at a minimum and this is not an attractive alternative at all.

GS1968, thank you for your kind words.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by gs1968

To immitime,Spec,Q and others
Thank you for maintaining a very clean,informative and decent blog that is always fun visiting.I have been visiting this blog for much longer than my date of joining indicates.

<snip>

---

gs1968,

A very thoughtful and considered post.

I agree the only solution is to provide more visas, otherwise due to demand, everyone is going to retrogress. Recapturing the lost visas would immediately apply a correction to the retrogressed Cut Off Dates, although I don't think the numbers are sufficient to make everybody Current.

I do like the STEM idea, because it gives greatest benefit to those Countries with the most students graduating form accredited US Universities. That happens to be China and India, who have the biggest backlogs, but then part of the reason for those backlogs is the very fact that many students come to the USA to study and then wish to make their career here.

To K and Spec
I again apologize for the length of the post.I just kept typing in the small box and did not realize the length till I previewed it!
HR 3012 has created a wedge between Indians/Chinese and the rest of the world because as things stand they stand to gain most from the change.However the Open Door data for international students seems to indicate higher Chinese demand in the future.Also the significant rupee depreciation in the last 4 months will lead to a strategic change in the off-shoring business model of Indian IT cos as they stand to gain by thinning down US presence and increasing work in India. I was reviewing the rupee vs dollar chart and the significant appreciation has happened in the last 90 days and some of the H-1B visas they have applied for may not be followed through with. A combination of these factors may alter the composition of future applications for EB visas

Thanks Gs1968.. and Thanks Q for maintaining this forum, without any spamming.

Praying that H.R.3012 will be law soon. which gives relief to lot of families.

I just saw some of the posts on trackitt, I like how these converstions devolve into a crazy catfight and people keep bitching about the other every 2 minutes. Blah.

So are folks still optimistic that we get a vote on HR 3012 this week?

Officially Grassley's hold should be off, then only we can think of Senate vote. I don't think he has removed the hold on HR3012 yet.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by randomax

I just saw some of the posts on trackitt, I like how these converstions devolve into a crazy catfight and people keep bitching about the other every 2 minutes. Blah.

So are folks still optimistic that we get a vote on HR 3012 this week?

---

Gs1968- Well expressed. Thanks for the information with unbiased view.
This bill is needed now to make everybody is treated as equal.