Discussion of Bills that remove the Per Country Limits - H.R.3012, H,R. 213

Oh Law Firm Update:

02/14/2012: Mouting Frustration With the Stalled H.R. 3012 and Irish E-3 Visa Bill

The Senate adjourned yesterday without taking up either stand-alone H.R. 3012 or H.R. 3012 as amended by Irish E-3. Reportedly, there have been and are some activities behind the scene between the Senators and and H.R. 3012 lobbyists and Irish E-3 supporters, but Senator Chuck Grassley still remains a hefty road-block to find a break-through. Apparently Senator Grassley's compromise proposal involving restrictions to H and L visas remain a tough animal to find a common ground for the break-through. As it stands now, Sen. Grassley's proposal to attach the restriction to H and L visa to H.R. 3012 is not acceptable to the high tech industry, particularly high-tech consulting businesses as such legislation will choke the throat of the high tech industry. The Senate will return to the Hill this morning but there is no sign that any of these bills will be taken up today. See how the Irish community is agonizing, not to mention other stakeholder Indian, Chinese, Mexican, and Filippino communities.

http://www.irishemigrant.com/ie/go.a...&storyID=11000

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Originally Posted by gcq

HR 3012 is no way dead.Not seeing any action in Senate does not mean it is dead. Senate has its own sophisticated rules and procedures. It will take time for it to happen. It is not something which will happen in a flash as soon as Senate convenes.
.

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Gurus,
Thanks for the reponse. I stumbleupon on this forum couple of months back and I see most people are knowledgable and helpful. I am completing my 13 th year in this country ans still in limbo as I stuck in EB3.
According to latest news Uncle G*** is not budging for any compromise.
My guess is that uncle G*** won't allow any legal immigration reform until his agenda's are accepted.

Senate minory(GOP) is not interested passing over G****, specifically in any immigration issues.

Gurus your take?.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by vickywac

Gurus,
Thanks for the reponse. I stumbleupon on this forum couple of months back and I see most people are knowledgable and helpful. I am completing my 13 th year in this country ans still in limbo as I stuck in EB3.
According to latest news Uncle G*** is not budging for any compromise.
My guess is that uncle G*** won't allow any legal immigration reform until his agenda's are accepted.

Senate minory(GOP) is not interested passing over G****, specifically in any immigration issues.

Gurus your take?.

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Uncle G does not care about GOP, GOP does not care about uncle G. Uncle G's stand has no relevance to GOP's stand.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by gcq

Uncle G does not care about GOP, GOP does not care about uncle G. Uncle G's stand has no relevance to GOP's stand.

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According to news media, Senate GOP leadership is not interested in outmaneuver the uncle G*.

Irish would like to use this bill as a vehicle, there is already not positive news about the irish provision, antis start their campaign to oppose the irish provision. Hmmmm... its going to be interesting...
I am trying to be optimistic !

Quote:

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Originally Posted by vickywac

According to news media, Senate GOP leadership is not interested in outmaneuver the uncle G*.

Irish would like to use this bill as a vehicle, there is already not positive news about the irish provision, antis start their campaign to oppose the irish provision. Hmmmm... its going to be interesting...
I am trying to be optimistic !

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vickywac

Can You Please provide the News media which shows that GOP senate leadership are not interested in out maneouver grass--ley????

Thanks for the optimism! but interested to know which news media reported the above?

Pressure mounts on Senator Brown:
http://www.irishcentral.com/news/Pre...139349003.html

immitime,
Frish media

Quote:

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any possible Irish E-3 breakthrough is completely at the mercy of Senator Grassley’s flexibility on HR3012.

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Irish news media was reporting as if G* is ok, Mitch is ok. G* is not agains the Irish, he want bring his H1B provision, most of us not sure what is actually is going on behind the sceen. Also, Irish media was reporting that the compromise from G* is not imminent on our bill.
Looks like its kind of black box as of now. Patience is the key.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by vickywac

immitime,
Frish media
Irish news media was reporting as if G* is ok, Mitch is ok. G* is not agains the Irish, he want bring his H1B provision, most of us not sure what is actually is going on behind the sceen. Also, Irish media was reporting that the compromise from G* is not imminent on our bill.
Looks like its kind of black box as of now. Patience is the key.

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Thank You, Irish Media, Oh law firm all other so called pretending all knowing websites should be ignored and we should not take them seriously. What is really happening is H.r.3012 has been placed on Senate Calender by invoking rule 14. US Legislative process will take its own sweet time. If Grass-ley cannot be convinced for Unanimous consent, Sen majority Leader should find time for Clouter motion (makes sure he will get 60 votes out of 100 Senators,with 30 hours of debate, so all the senators should be present at the time of voting,co-ordinating all this takes time) As you said Patience is the Key.

E-3 Visa and Fairness for High skilled are two seperate issues. Irish lobby can try to use H.r. 3012 as a Vehicle but at present it may not be possible. Even Sen. Schumer said last month that if not with H.R.3012 with some other bill.

Update from Oh Law Firm:

02/16/2012: Senate Schedule Update and H.R. 3012 & Irish E-3 Visa Bill

The H.R. 3012 and Irish E-3 Visa bills failed to be taken up on the Senate floor yesterday. The Senate floor does not have any schedule for vote today. The Senate has a vote schedule tomorrow for Cloture Motions relating to consent to federal official appointments but thus far H.R. 3012 or Irish E-3 visa bill are not included in the tomorrow's Senate floor schedule. The schedules can change and we will report it, should there be any changes with the Senate floor calendars. Irish news media reports that two ultra-conservative Republican Senators Vitter of Louisiana and Sessions of Alabama expressed that they would object to these bills. Please stay tuned to this website for updates.

From Irish Echo:

The hoped-for Irish E-3 visa bill that Senator Scott Brown said last week was “about to pop” was still stalled on Capitol Hill this week with Iowa Senator Charles Grassley maintaining his hold on a measure that combines the proposals of Massachusetts Republican Brown, and New York Democrat, Senator Charles Schumer.

As such, the story has become a tale of two Chucks (Grassley and Schumer) with a Scott in the middle.

Sources were indicating this week that Grassley was effectively proposing to “eviscerate” the Irish E-3 proposal by merging it with an existing E-3 program open to Australians.

The Schumer Irish bill envisages 10,000 renewable E-3 visas on an annual basis for eligible Irish applicants. But according to sources, there would be precious few E-3s for the Irish under Grassley’s plan as virtually all the visas would be snapped up by Australians.

Backers of the Irish E-3 are now looking to Senator Brown, who has penned his own Irish E-3 measure, to persuade sufficient Republican colleagues in the Senate to reach a required 60 votes.

The Schumer version of the bill is supported by all 53 Democrats.

“He needs to get his side in order,” said a source, referring to Sen. Brown.

Last week, Brown told the Boston Herald that his E3 bill was “about to pop” on Capitol Hill with passage possible before week’s end.

“In Massachusetts we have such a strong demand for this because of our family and cultural ties. This is kind of a no-brainer,” Brown told the daily.

Brown’s bill actually proposes 10,500 Irish E-3s but leaves out any possible waiver for the undocumented Irish. In order to secure across the aisle agreement, Sen. Schumer removed a waiver provision from his bill, S.1983, in order to reach an accommodation with Brown and his GOP allies.

Brown told the Boston Herald that he was “trying to work” with Sen. Grassley to have him and other Republicans “step back” from their

objections.

“We’re ready to pass it today,” Martin Brennan, state director for Senator Schumer, said of the combined Irish E-3 proposal

I don't see this news in IrishCentral! Can you provide the link please?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by lalaji

From Irish Echo:

The hoped-for Irish E-3 visa bill that Senator Scott Brown said last week was “about to pop” was still stalled on Capitol Hill this week with Iowa Senator Charles Grassley maintaining his hold on a measure that combines the proposals of Massachusetts Republican Brown, and New York Democrat, Senator Charles Schumer.

As such, the story has become a tale of two Chucks (Grassley and Schumer) with a Scott in the middle.

Sources were indicating this week that Grassley was effectively proposing to “eviscerate” the Irish E-3 proposal by merging it with an existing E-3 program open to Australians.

The Schumer Irish bill envisages 10,000 renewable E-3 visas on an annual basis for eligible Irish applicants. But according to sources, there would be precious few E-3s for the Irish under Grassley’s plan as virtually all the visas would be snapped up by Australians.

Backers of the Irish E-3 are now looking to Senator Brown, who has penned his own Irish E-3 measure, to persuade sufficient Republican colleagues in the Senate to reach a required 60 votes.

The Schumer version of the bill is supported by all 53 Democrats.

“He needs to get his side in order,” said a source, referring to Sen. Brown.

Last week, Brown told the Boston Herald that his E3 bill was “about to pop” on Capitol Hill with passage possible before week’s end.

“In Massachusetts we have such a strong demand for this because of our family and cultural ties. This is kind of a no-brainer,” Brown told the daily.

Brown’s bill actually proposes 10,500 Irish E-3s but leaves out any possible waiver for the undocumented Irish. In order to secure across the aisle agreement, Sen. Schumer removed a waiver provision from his bill, S.1983, in order to reach an accommodation with Brown and his GOP allies.

Brown told the Boston Herald that he was “trying to work” with Sen. Grassley to have him and other Republicans “step back” from their

objections.

“We’re ready to pass it today,” Martin Brennan, state director for Senator Schumer, said of the combined Irish E-3 proposal

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http://irishecho.com/?p=69732

Sorry for asking stupid q, What's the likely out come?

This bill likely die slowly ...

This bill is already dying a slow painful pitiful death.

Sorry for slight change in subject:
I am looking at the Pending I-485 inventory for Jan 2012:
There are 15,583 for EB1, 30,125 for EB2, 365 for EB4, and 23 for EB5.
Together all these combined should be allocated 100,000 GC numbers. where as the total is 46,096.
So why isn't the EB2 for India current?, I do realize that some GCs have already been granted in this fiscal year.... but even accounting for that (maybe around 36000) should make EB2 current.

What I am trying to get at is: if EB2 becomes current soon then remaining numbers should start rolling over to EB3.
My PD is July1, 2003.... I am just trying to estimate when I will get GC in case this congress continues to do nothing about the Plight of EB3 folks.

http://www.irishcentral.com/news/-Se...139505748.html

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Originally Posted by mniwas

Sorry for slight change in subject:
I am looking at the Pending I-485 inventory for Jan 2012:
There are 15,583 for EB1, 30,125 for EB2, 365 for EB4, and 23 for EB5.
Together all these combined should be allocated 100,000 GC numbers. where as the total is 46,096.
So why isn't the EB2 for India current?, I do realize that some GCs have already been granted in this fiscal year.... but even accounting for that (maybe around 36000) should make EB2 current.

What I am trying to get at is: if EB2 becomes current soon then remaining numbers should start rolling over to EB3.
My PD is July1, 2003.... I am just trying to estimate when I will get GC in case this congress continues to do nothing about the Plight of EB3 folks.

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mniwas

If EB-2 India date becomes current,(not likely this fiscal year, unless 3012 becomes law) the spillover will not be for EB-3 India, EB-3 Row will be benefitted. Please remove the misconception!

Again, If H.r.3012 is for dying in the calendar, then they will not have invoked Rule 14 for avoiding this bill getting killed in Judiciary committee. Senate placed this bill on calendar after second reading, on Jan 23rd 2012, not even a month. Senate procedure takes its own time. So be Patient, Irish, and Oh law firm reports are half baked and most of the news coming out are speculation from Journalist/Attorney's mind Please do not take it seriously.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by immitime

mniwas

If EB-2 India date becomes current,(not likely this fiscal year, unless 3012 becomes law) the spillover will not be for EB-3 India, EB-3 Row will be benefitted. Please remove the misconception!

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Here is my take, If there is no vote by march, senate would not take this bill to vote until end of this year.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by vickywac

Here is my take, If there is no vote by march, senate would not take this bill to vote until end of this year.

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A colleague of mine who is really into politics (he watches MSNBC and FOX all the time, even while at work), thinks the Senate will turn Republican after the next election, and in the lame duck session Reid, in his last month as Senate majority leader will invoke cloture every 3 days to pass some 10 to 15 bills that have been held up by Grassley and others thus far. He thinks that they'll be Democrat supported measures in general, but will have to include a few that have bipartisan support. He doesn't think there are many bipartisan bills so HR 3012 could well be one of them that pass at that time. Otherwise he doesn't see Reid invoking cloture on something this unimportant to the American public. He thinks there is a good chance that if the economy keeps improving and Republican poll numbers keep dropping (apparently the most stated reason for independents to switch support is because Republicans are seen as obstructionists), then the Republican Senators who are up for tough reelections (not many with clout) and the entire Republican Congress (huge clout as a body) will give Grassley something else in return for his dropping his hold, just so that they can chalk up a successful immigration achievement that is still largely seen as their initiative. I asked him what they could possibly give Grassley, who has no reelection for another 4 years, no sign of credidble opposition and no obvious further ambitions, but he thinks there always is something.

This is purely one man's opinion. He has no inside knowledge of anything. He only knows about this bill because I've told him about it. What he has is decades of experience watching American politics, and a pretty good understanding (media driven no doubt) of what goes on in Washington. I believe him too.

In summary, I think the bill still has a 50-50 chance of getting through the senate unadultered (as it would happen not through cloture, but through Grassley dropping his hold) in the next several months, and a > 75% chance of passing at the end of the year.

Grassley is one kind of a person. He will not compromise. This bill will have to pass through cloture. IMO republicans are not going to have the dream run they had in the past election. In fact republicans will be on defense this time especially with Obama up for re-election.

If democrats lose senate, what is their motivation to pass bills in cloture motion ? If this bill is to pass, it has to pass now with a cloture.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by gcq

Grassley is one kind of a person. He will not compromise. This bill will have to pass through cloture. IMO republicans are not going to have the dream run they had in the past election. In fact republicans will be on defense this time especially with Obama up for re-election.

If democrats lose senate, what is their motivation to pass bills in cloture motion ? If this bill is to pass, it has to pass now with a cloture.

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Gcq,
I agree with you. Grassley will not release his hold anytime. Here are the possible scenarios that would happen for HR 3012 in senate.
1. Cloture for HR 3012 as a sperate bill.
2. Cloture for HR 3012 + Irish, still not sure it will pass thru in house, house will
oppose for any increase in visa numbers numerically. If the bill failed to pass in
house what would be the fate of HR 3012?.
Democrats need to have a political will to bring the cloture before election.
Poor EB3 folks, including me, spectators of the political drama!
As this is reppublican bill, what is the position on the republican senate leadership on this bill ?. Will they go with grassley on immigration matters all time?...

This is really a test for our patience. This is my 13 year with mercy of the 2007 bulletin fiasco. This is really testing my patience!.

I don't think GOP leadership will have any issue with the bill. In fact they will firmly support this bill along with the democrats. The critical thing is to pass this bill without any amendments.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by gcq

I don't think GOP leadership will have any issue with the bill. In fact they will firmly support this bill along with the democrats. The critical thing is to pass this bill without any amendments.

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Thank you. What is your best hunch still the cloture not been invoked?.
Our best interest would be the bill as standalone but If the cloture invoked with IRISH, what would be the fate of this Bill in house?.
As we know, house is against in any increase in numerical limits.

Do IRISH provision would be endorsed by congress rep as well,
before it amened in senate?.

Lot's of If and but....
GB

I am with you that a stand alone bill is the best. If combined with Irish E3, it may not clear the house. The main reason that HR 3012 had a smooth sail is because it does not increase a single visa. If E3 is added to HR 3012, anti-immigrant groups will strongly oppose even if lawmakers are ok with it.

If Irish were confident that they will get enough support in house, they wouldn't have combined E3 into HR 3012. They want to take advantage of HR 3012's success in the house.

My impression about Irish has come down a lot after their misadventure with E3. I didn't know that Irish are this naive and spineless.

HR3012 is on Obama's Jobs agenda. It is through that route that Reid will be filing cloture on HR3012. When Reid is going to take up Obama's jobs agenda, no one knows. Reid on the floor today said that he will be focussing on surface transport and postal dept bills as next on Senate agenda. He dealt with all pending nominations today in one shot. For now, we need to wait till Surface transport and postal bills get through. Hopefully Obama's jobs bill will be next.. That's my thinking..

Quote:

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Originally Posted by idiotic

HR3012 is on Obama's Jobs agenda. It is through that route that Reid will be filing cloture on HR3012. When Reid is going to take up Obama's jobs agenda, no one knows. Reid on the floor today said that he will be focussing on surface transport and postal dept bills as next on Senate agenda. He dealt with all pending nominations today in one shot. For now, we need to wait till Surface transport and postal bills get through. Hopefully Obama's jobs bill will be next.. That's my thinking..

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That too makes sense.

Interesting and postive views. Do senate wait until St. patrick day to invoke cloture on this bill?.

More senators join E3:
http://www.irishcentral.com/news/Key...139570188.html

Well... I am perhaps too cynical - but even if HR-3012 passed WITH E3 amendment in the Senate, I don't think house will shoot it down. Most of the people who are Anti-Immigrant are really using the term as code for being Anti-The-Recent-Kind-Of-Immigrant. I would not be surprised if even hardcore anti organizations and people will somehow find a rationale for being perfectly fine with adding 10K additional visas for Irish. There is a deep undercurrent of subtext and history behind all the immigration debates and even though overt racism might be dead in the public discourse, the underlying theme still stays strong.

Did anyone oppose the Australian E3 visa when it came up? At least I did not hear about it. Even Irish E3 visa does not have any vocal opposition - they have less support for not outright opposition. Just imagine how it would be if someone proposes an E3 for India/China/Mexico/etc.

It's going to very tough battle in cogress unless if there is a unanimous consent by both parties on the Irish provision in senate.
Once chaffetz referred that " even lamar smith will not agree if there is increase in numbers".
Increase in numbers is going to be play negative in news media, though it passed in senate thro cloture.
Irishi is gonna playing a gamble on their provision by using the HR 3012 as their dice.
Look at the comments from the readers for the Politico article.
http://dyn.politico.com/members/foru...readid=6440544

To vickywac
The even more difficult problem is to break the hold by Senator Grassley. The Irish media keeps repeating the tally of Senators on both sides but it is important not to equate support for a particular measure with commitment to vote to break filibuster. They may vote for cloture to limit debate if all disagreements are out of the way but are unlikely to vote to undermine their own caucus unity. I have a link below to a somewhat parallel situation in the senate-

http://news.bostonherald.com/news/na...osition=recent

This is also a measure with bipartisan support and counts Senators Schumer and Grassley as co-sponsors.Both of them have made powerful floor speeches to let the Bill move forward.If a cloture motion were to be filed it is very likely that this Bill will pass the Senate.However they will continue to wait for unanimous consent.Next to elephants, Senators have long memories and will remember when other senators voted against them. Every Senator has had either a Bill or nomination on hold at some point and it would weaken their hand if they voted to break other senators' holds especially of their own party.If a freshman senator can hold up a Bill and others are waiting for him to release it-I am not sure how one will break a Senior Senator like Grassley's hold unless he relents himself

BTW can any other forum member point a link to where it says Sens.Sessions and Vitter are against the Irish Provision?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by gs1968

To vickywac
The even more difficult problem is to break the hold by Senator Grassley. The Irish media keeps repeating the tally of Senators on both sides but it is important not to equate support for a particular measure with commitment to vote to break filibuster. They may vote for cloture to limit debate if all disagreements are out of the way but are unlikely to vote to undermine their own caucus unity. I have a link below to a somewhat parallel situation in the senate-

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Interesting. There is no synergy between the senate and house within republican party. If this is true HR 3012 is in high risk to pass in senate.
What about the agenda as a party, if the two chambers dont work together?.

I don't know why people still like to talk about Grassley's "hold" when HR 3012 has already bypassed judiciary committee and is on Senate calendar !

Grassley on fillibuster http://youtu.be/o8VLBhhlhcs

Grassley on why he likes Senate than house ? fillibuster http://youtu.be/nBnD8uaH1Ds

Ethanol subsidies: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aDclBdC5MP0

Seems we are 2 senators short of magical 60.......

http://www.irishcentral.com/news/Key...139570188.html

Senator Brown's E-3 bill is exclusively drafted to benefit Irish, which has nothing to do with our 3012.
Here is the bill text http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/BILLS-1...112s2005is.pdf
I cannot find any of our bill's provisions attached with it, but I may be wrong. If others find it in the other way, please correct me.

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Originally Posted by Kanmani

Senator Brown's E-3 bill is exclusively drafted to benefit Irish, which has nothing to do with our 3012.
Here is the bill text http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/BILLS-1...112s2005is.pdf
I cannot find any of our bill's provisions attached with it, but I may be wrong. If others find it in the other way, please correct me.

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Kanmani, the backdoor deals will be completed before anything shows up on the official bills. Yes, Sen. Brown has a separate bill. Sen. Schumer has proposed an amendment to HR 3012 that includes essentially Sen. Brown's bill. Again the operating word is proposed. You won't find it in the official records.

Because it is so controversial, everything is done behind the closed doors without any open debate and then unanimous consent will be sought. I think the Senate is underestimating the House here. If the Senate passes the bill HR 3012 with the Irish amendment then the House will reject it for sure. We being mere puppets are just going to watch the show and see our future being kicked around like a football.

Even if HR3012 clubbed with the Irish bill is cleared by the House, I'm wondering what Obama's stance would be on the same. The thing that concerns me is the eligibility requirements for the E-3 visa....which are not really deemed "high skilled".....and given the current economic circumstances! In all of his addresses, he has specifically talked about 'high skilled immigration'.......

kuku
one of Obama's GGGGreat parents is Irish:D