Discussion of Bills that remove the Per Country Limits - H.R.3012, H,R. 213

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Originally Posted by imdeng

There is now a rival petition to OPPOSE HR-3012/S-1857:
They have 44 letters so far. We have 318.
Everyone - please be active - use Facebook, Twitter (#HR3012), Letters/Emails/Calls to your Senators - use **'s interface for it if you don't have a strong preference against it.

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Count is 470 and increasing........................

The opposition count is 1400+ in the rival petition............do you guys think this a cause for worry? This seems to be some sort of concerted ROW effort......the count seems to increasing in 10's and 20's every hour.......

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Originally Posted by kuku82

The opposition count is 1400+ in the rival petition............do you guys think this a cause for worry? This seems to be some sort of concerted ROW effort......the count seems to increasing in 10's and 20's every hour.......

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If anything happens in Washinton with online petition, then things are easier, Yes we can send online petition just to inform Senators that does not mean that Senators will favour anyone, It all depends on political lobbying and how the bill supporters in Congress and Senate convince Grassley or ignore him for a clouture motion.

Lets wait for the good thing to happen.

There is an ** petition in the same site where we hosted our petition. It is even a half-copy of our petition (the latter half is identical except a 'Member - ****************' insertion) - no credit to us of course - which is fine - whatever helps put more positive effect on HR-3012 is fine with me. This petition is growing rapidly and has eclipsed the opposing petition. Please sign this petition, even if you have signed the petition started by me with ManuBhai's help.
Link: http://www.petition2congress.com/568...mmigrants-act/

If somebody has access to **'s leadership - please ask them to make the following changes:
1. Change the title to include "HR-3012" in it. Currently it just reads: "Please Vote 'Yes' on"
2. Emphasize to people signing the petition to spend $9 to send paper letters.
3. Currently they have selected the default option which sends letters to Senators, Congressman and President. They should perhaps change it to have the letters sent to only Senators since the letter is addressed to only Senators.

Good going, guys.

Btw, if you find online articles that comment on HR 3012, take a minute to post the following comment, which is adapted from manubhai's original letter (just make sure somebody else from here has not posted the comment already), It encapsulates all our main arguments. Who knows, it might influence some senate staffers who are researching the bill online!

"Despite years of shrill partisanship and division over immigration, in H.R.3012, we now have a bill that puts aside all contentious aspects of immigration and is focused on attracting the best and brightest to America's shores, just as it always has.

That said, H.R. 3012 does NOT bring a single new person in to United States. It only aims to make the "process" of employment based immigration fair for the best and brightest English speaking, educated, tax-paying, law abiding, experienced professionals who have previously entered United States legally after proving their worth. H.R. 3012 is a technical fix that makes the process of employment based immigration more "American" because fairness is the quintessential American way.

H.R. 3012 proposes to remove the arbitrarily prescribed limit of 7% per country on annual allotment of green cards - the root cause of the unfairness. Because of this limit, applicants from populous countries like India, China and Philippines are subjected to an inhumane wait of more than 10-20 years to obtain their green cards.

Importantly, and to repeat:
1. This bill does NOT increase the number of immigrants allowed in the United States.
2. This bill eliminates an archaic provision of the current employment based immigration law that discriminates the amount of time an employment based applicant needs to wait based on his country of birth.
3. This bill will have no impact on the diversity of the immigrant pool (much less the diversity of the population of United States) because it only impacts a small percentage of the total immigrant pool entering United States.
4. This bill is a product of lawmakers on both sides of the aisle working together to produce small, beneficial results for the US economy. It has thus passed the House of Representatives with a 96% approval - a rare feat in today's times."

Cool.

Am pretty sure almost all of us have noticed this: ** is asking for folks from Iowa specifically to contact their senators (yea...we know which one specifically) to vouch support for this bill.

I am not sure how many Iowans from I/C are stuck in the GC rut lest follow **. After doing a quick research on Indian associations in Iowa, this is what I found: http://www.iaaiowa.org/index2.html

I am going to write to the directors of this group and ask them to contact their members to write support letters for H.R. 3012 to their senators. I am not sure if any of this going to really help in releasing the hold on the bill, but am compelled to do something much more than following **'s action items.

Any opinion/feedback always welcome!!

Looks like IOWA indian organisation has a yahoo group http://groups.yahoo.com/group/iaaiowa

even better!

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Originally Posted by kuku82

Cool.

Am pretty sure almost all of us have noticed this: ** is asking for folks from Iowa specifically to contact their senators (yea...we know which one specifically) to vouch support for this bill.

I am not sure how many Iowans from I/C are stuck in the GC rut lest follow **. After doing a quick research on Indian associations in Iowa, this is what I found: http://www.iaaiowa.org/index2.html

I am going to write to the directors of this group and ask them to contact their members to write support letters for H.R. 3012 to their senators. I am not sure if any of this going to really help in releasing the hold on the bill, but am compelled to do something much more than following **'s action items.

Any opinion/feedback always welcome!!

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I've worked in Des Moines, IA for three years and I've had at least 25 friends that are looking to sign the letter(s) from different links and send it to Senators in next couple of days.

Is there any way for anyone to post all links clubbed together??

Btw, I was the one who posted a link saying that Senator Grassley's comments were hoax....and I was proven wrong the next day. Sorry about that. Mistake on my part.

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Originally Posted by imdeng

There is an ** petition in the same site where we hosted our petition. It is even a half-copy of our petition (the latter half is identical except a 'Member - ****************' insertion) - no credit to us of course - which is fine - whatever helps put more positive effect on HR-3012 is fine with me. This petition is growing rapidly and has eclipsed the opposing petition. Please sign this petition, even if you have signed the petition started by me with ManuBhai's help.
Link: http://www.petition2congress.com/568...mmigrants-act/

If somebody has access to **'s leadership - please ask them to make the following changes:
1. Change the title to include "HR-3012" in it. Currently it just reads: "Please Vote 'Yes' on"
2. Emphasize to people signing the petition to spend $9 to send paper letters.
3. Currently they have selected the default option which sends letters to Senators, Congressman and President. They should perhaps change it to have the letters sent to only Senators since the letter is addressed to only Senators.

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After seeing ur message. I checked the petition half of the message is copied . I am ** member ...they may have given you the credit . However we all should support .I request all members to sign the petition.

Funny! :-) We need a little humor around here these days.

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Originally Posted by manubhai

As I said, I wholeheartedly give them credit for laying open the tools that people could use. But I am not a big fan of anyone telling me that I'm good for nothing if -
1. I dont do exactly as they say.
2. I do anything other than what they say.
(3. They are not my H1 employer who are also sponsoring my green card.)

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Completely support ManuBhai's action item here - Call Your Senator. Do not be intimidated - you will be talking to a staffer - who will listen to you and will note down your message. Takes one minute. Write physical letters to your Senators - they are effective since the Senator's office needs to keep track of all written communication and need to reply with a written communication.

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Originally Posted by manubhai

You are doing a big disservice to yourself if you are not making those 20 second phone calls. If you've never done one, please realize, its easier than eating a chocolate ice cream. They know why you've called... they listen to you finish your 3 sentences. And they say they've noted your opinion and will pass it on to the senator. Some may ask for your name and zip code. They thank you. You thank them.

At the end of the day, the precise numbers dont matter. The senator just needs to hear from their staff that they've been getting "way too many" calls in favor of this particular bill. The senator asks for a 5 minute review from an attorney and relations people on his staff. And then the senator talks to two other senators for their opinion. Soon... they are all talking. And voting.

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Sooooo does anyone know what the next steps and timeline are in terms of the bill. There's all this back door stuff that'll happen but formally what needs to happen? I assume its
1. Get past the Senate Judiciary Cmte
2. Get scheduled on the Senate calendar

Most likely #1 will happen quickly but its the second step that will take time, right ?

Sportfan33, i was just reporting same news.. anyways, the report is from IrishEmigrant org website of MA chapter. And they are pushing for this amendment. And if i am not wrong they are asking irish community to call Kerry/brown to add this amendment.

If this amendment is added to this bill, I am going to ask Senator from my state to add an amendment to this bill Special visa for "jackbrown_890 + dependants + family + friends + q's forum members". lol.
Seriously, I hope Kerry/brown won't add this amendment. But lets wait and see.

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Originally Posted by sportsfan33

What in the name of God is going on with this bill in the Senate?

This is from the OH's website.

"12/06/2011: Prsssures from Various Interest Groups Mushroom to Amend H.R. 3012 in the Senate

Sen. Grassley's action represents interest of one segment of interest groups in the country - Either to kill or strengthen restriction to the employment-based immigration for the alleged interest of American workers. There are also other interest groups that want to see this bill fail in the Senate because of alleged negative impact of this bill on those countries. Diverse interests which play out in the political process involving H.R. 3012 do not end there. There is a third group that wants to add their countries to give advantage to their countrries in employment-based visa numbers. Report indicates that the Irish group has just begun a campaign adding pressures on the Senators from Massachusetts to amend H.R. 3012 adding "Irish E-3 Amendment" to provide 10,500 annual visas (plus dependents) for Irish men and women to come legally to work in the U.S. Their proposed amendment would require a job here, and undocumented workers currently here could apply for waivers to use the new visa. The applicable skill level would be the same as the Diversity Lottery. Their Senator John Kerry (D) is a senior and powerful legislator in the Senate. From the perspectives of the initial H.R. 3012 sponsor, such forces can be allies in that it could help the bill pass in the Senate, albeit with amendments. Read on. "

I honestly did not think people like John Kerry etc. are going to be involved in a bill we thought was too insignificant. Apparently not! On one hand, OH seems to say that the bill will push forward in the Senate with some amendments, but on the other hand, we have always thought no amendments can do it any good.

Where is OH getting all this information?

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I sincerely doubt that would happen. Let's remove all quotas..... except let's allow the Irish a separate quota. :)

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Originally Posted by sportsfan33

I agree jackbrown. Talk about a ridiculous amendment! And why 10,500? I wonder...10000 was a nice round number, I did not understand the logic of this number that they pulled out of their hat.

I don't think this E-3 amendment has any merit and Kerry is not stupid to fall for this. However OH is still saying that "interest groups" with countries that are affected want to kill this bill. I wonder which countries he is talking about.

I guess we have a battle on our hand and I wonder if it is time to act as one group instead of individuals. Unfortunately the said group is hated here, but we may not have a choice at this point.

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As far as i know - so far Irish (with this amendment) and Nepalese (asking all their members to support to kill the bill) community...

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Originally Posted by sportsfan33

1. It seems Grassley wants H1B restrictions.
2. Some other "unknown" interest groups want the bill to fail, although we don't know a Senator who has called out for the alleged countries that will suffer.
3. The crazy irish want their separate quota.

I believe only Grassley has merit. I don't think any other Senators are going to care whether Pakistani/Syrian/Iranian/Ghanian/Venezualan gets a visa over an Indian. We know that EB2/3 immigration is dominated by 3rd world countries, and it makes no sense that the exclusive rich white men/women club in the Senate care to protect a smaller third world country from a larger one.

The Irish amendment is just ridiculous. It is just reported in a local paper. I don't think Kerry is gonna fall for that, but you never know. After all, he managed to lose his election quite spectacularly to a chimp.

I feel if Grassley can be convinced with minimal amendments, the bill will be rammed through the Senate. That's what our focus should be - the Indian friends in Iowa.

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Yup, Grassley would want to attach H1b reform probably. I just hope it doesn't open up a floodgate for amendments from Senate Dems. Because they would probably want to attach DREAM Act to this bill.

this is going to be a total cluster. the fact that it went through so easily in the House is the reason why they all want to jump on this. I hope House bill sponsors can convince Grassley to drop his Hold. As for amendments, they have to be approved too. Those will most likely be killed even if at all they are raised. There's no way any Congressman is going to support a country-specific amendment to this bill.

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Originally Posted by sportsfan33

I feel if Grassley can be convinced with minimal amendments, the bill will be rammed through the Senate. That's what our focus should be - the Indian friends in Iowa.

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I agree wholeheartedly. In fact, he may be convinced sans amendments if a couple of key Dems agree to back Grassley's own bill asking for stricter H1B enforcement. Not a bad step, I think, although I haven't actually read his bill.

When a bill comes to the Senate, mostly this kind of bargaining is expected, and here Like "Horse Trading" things may be amended according to the interest groups influence and lobbying power, to avoid fillibuster, Senators supporting this bill may agree to add amendment.

But definitely not the Irish E-3 thing. because this bill itself is for "Fairness" in immigration, to treat every EB immigrant as equal immaterial of which country he/she is from (at least within three years (2012 to 2014)) The Irish argument and what they are asking is senseless and right away will be rejected by their respective Senators. And the Irish bill can be another separate bill which should pass through Congress,again

Otherwise as jack_brown said, Q's forum, can ask its own quota for EB immigration. Lets wait for the drama to unfold.

This Bill has opened a can of worms if anything else. Another popular immigration forum is full of hate posts. I do not feel safe to even get on the site anymore. I hear there is a yahoo forum for the other Team and that they are approaching anti immigrant organization to vote against HR 3012. I never knew anti immigrant org = anti Indian org. This Bill has truly brought out the worst, ugly side of both teams

Irish amendment or any other amendment for that matter will not be added IMO. There are stronger groups looking for Immigration reform who has kept silent on this bill. DREAM act proponents, they are powerful. Have we even heard of them asking to add DREAM to this ? Illegal immigrant groups, they haven't asked either. These amendments has no chance of being added to this bill as far as I can see.

Grassley has always been like these. He has been trying to attach Durbin-Grassley H1B reform to any bill that comes along.

in EB ROW forum, they tried to contact Programmer's guild. Relevant portions from the response.

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I am glad that Senator Grassley is speaking against it. But I don't know that he can sway the majority vote.

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Grassley and Durbin H1b so called reform bill explained by Sheela Murthy website.(way back in 2009) I think they are trying to get this included in any bill named "immigration" But it is difficult to include in any bill. these ideas are hardcore and antibusiness, They tried this in 2009 and they want to try the same 2012 also.

http://www.murthy.com/news/n_durgra.html

Bill text

http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c111:S.887:

Grassley's website says he want to do this this time too.

http://www.grassley.senate.gov/news/...eID_1502=30928

I think convincing Grassley is going to be one tough job for Chaffetz and Lee. I personally think Grassley doesn't have a clue about the EB green card system. He has just blocked the bill because it is related to immigration and he is an anti-immigrant in general. Either he will be persistent in his demand to attach his amendments for H1B or he will just try to kill the bill. This whole system of just one senator being able to put an illogical hold on the bill saying it does not protect American workers and harm the entire bill is really terrible.