Discussion On The Politics of Immigration Reform (Comprehensive Or Otherwise)

I know I brought up Sen.Rubio's conflicting positions yesterday but I am still confused as to what he is trying to do.

http://washingtonexaminer.com/rubio-...stom_click=rss

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Originally Posted by rupen86

Labrador quits gang if 8. This is huge blow to house gang of 8 which is no longer gang of 8. Without him, I do not think they would be able to produce a bill.

http://www.upi.com/Top_News/US/2013/...6921370503800/

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Depends. If house fails to come up with a bill, it may turn out to be good for CIR. In that case they will have to move forward with Senate bill at some point.

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Originally Posted by gcq

Depends. If house fails to come up with a bill, it may turn out to be good for CIR. In that case they will have to move forward with Senate bill at some point.

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That would be the ideal scenario but I feel it is very unlikely.I felt that the DREAM beneficiaries would at least be one area of agreement between the two chambers but the House just passed an amendment to the Homeland security appropriations bill (HR 2217) depriving the DHS of funds to implement the Executive Order of President Obama for DACA. This will likely not be in the final version if the Senate also passes it but the vote count showed an overwhelming majority of Republicans voting no.I find this very hard to believe in the current environment but if an amendment like this gets passed so convincingly then there is a huge challenge for more controversial items like guest workers/citizenship pathway etc.

http://americasvoiceonline.org/blog/...n-house-floor/

PS-The amendment was proposed by Rep.Steve King

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Originally Posted by rupen86

Labrador quits gang if 8. This is huge blow to house gang of 8 which is no longer gang of 8. Without him, I do not think they would be able to produce a bill.

http://www.upi.com/Top_News/US/2013/...6921370503800/

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This from Rep.Gutierrez after Labrador's departure

"I guess they will stop calling us the gang of eight, now. I am hoping they start calling us the Magnificent Seven."

http://gutierrez.house.gov/press-rel...-rep-labradors

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Originally Posted by gcq

Depends. If house fails to come up with a bill, it may turn out to be good for CIR. In that case they will have to move forward with Senate bill at some point.

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The house Doesn't have to take the senate bill, it may but its not guaranteed

This from ThinkProgress

"One indication of where the House stands on immigration is House Majority Leader Eric Cantor’s (R-VA) vote today. Cantor voted yes on King’s amendment, even though he announced support for the DREAM Act (in theory) in February.

Mr.Boehner is doing the same Kabuki dance like Mr.Rubio in the Senate

http://www.nationalreview.com/corner...medium=twitter

I just got this on twitter

1st Senate floor debate on the #immigration bill will be Fri. 1st vote on procedural motion, Tues, 2:15-2nd vote @ 4pm Tues

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Originally Posted by indiani

Q,
you made great points but like many on this forum, lets say If i was in obama's shoes and wanted to show more leadership, i would have focussed on house side and told the house Dems to compromise as long as citizenship clause is there and not to fight for unnecessary obamacare issue or other issues for all practical purposes don't make much difference for current illegals and here is why:

I took care of several hundreds of pts who are illegal without SSN, they are got excellent care, paid none to me or the hospital and went home and they are always welcome back in the hospital and so the current system is not so bad for them to unnecessarily fight for it.

here is what most people try to counter the above point by saying that somehow illegals have to wait until their condition becomes serious to come to ER., thats not true as even with cold anyone can go to ER but legals/citizens with private insurance don't go to ER b'cos of high co-pays.

Illegals and medicaid pts in the current system can see any specialist and get any procedure done (other than plastic surgery for cosmetic purposes) anyday without paying a dime.

So don't you think its kind of silly to ruin the chances by fighting for obamacare for illegals

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hmm... is there a way I can be legal and get same medical benefits are they all are gettings? :-) Wanted to cut down on the health insurence costs.

Senator Reid just filed cloture on the motion to proceed on the immigration bill -- on the floor next week

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Originally Posted by srimurthy

hmm... is there a way I can be legal and get same medical benefits are they all are gettings? :-) Wanted to cut down on the health insurence costs.

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you are entitled to same ER access like all illegals do. The only difference, if you give your SSN or your name in ER and you don't pay bills it can ruin your credit history.

As illegals don't have either SSN and don't care about credit history, they can freely access without having to pay bills,
in fact all women (who are here illegally) who are pregnant have 100% costs covered by state of FL, no need to have private insurance or worry about co-pays.

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Originally Posted by indiani

you are entitled to same ER access like all illegals do. The only difference, if you give your SSN or your name in ER and you don't pay bills it can ruin your credit history.

As illegals don't have either SSN and don't care about credit history, they can freely access without having to pay bills,
in fact all women (who are here illegally) who are pregnant have 100% costs covered by state of FL, no need to have private insurance or worry about co-pays.

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That's actually enlightening. Thanks for the insight. What this means is that any argument about cost to state for medical expenses is no longer valid (w.r.t. legalizing the illegals). In fact, by legalizing this invisible cost would in fact be reduced. Of course other expenses may still apply.

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Originally Posted by gs1968

Senator Reid just filed cloture on the motion to proceed on the immigration bill -- on the floor next week

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From Senate's website:

"Friday, Jun 07, 2013
9:30 a.m.: Convene and resume consideration of the motion to proceed to S.744, the Comprehensive Immigration Reform bill."

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Originally Posted by seahawks2012

That's actually enlightening. Thanks for the insight. What this means is that any argument about cost to state for medical expenses is no longer valid (w.r.t. legalizing the illegals). In fact, by legalizing this invisible cost would in fact be reduced. Of course other expenses may still apply.

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Lawmakers know all these stuff but everything they say and do is based on politics

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Originally Posted by gs1968

This from ThinkProgress

"One indication of where the House stands on immigration is House Majority Leader Eric Cantor’s (R-VA) vote today. Cantor voted yes on King’s amendment, even though he announced support for the DREAM Act (in theory) in February.

Mr.Boehner is doing the same Kabuki dance like Mr.Rubio in the Senate

http://www.nationalreview.com/corner...medium=twitter

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He is saying that is he is unsure how many bills house can do, whether they have the bandwidth to do it and that house won't take up the senate bill and that senate is wasting their time on the CIR since they are not going to take it up.

Well, we'll find out soon enough as the Senate calls their bluff. I think there will be significant pressure on them to take up the Senate bill if they don't have one of their own by then. My guess is that the Senate bill comes to the floor soon after the August recess. I also think it passes with a majority of democrat and about 20 to 30 Republican votes.

Still, let's take one step at a time. The floor of the Senate first.

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Originally Posted by rupen86

Immigration reform in trouble..

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/...be-in-trouble/

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Another article along the similar line.
http://www.businessinsider.com/immig...abrador-2013-6

From Oh Law firm,

06/06/2013: Sen. John Cornyn Reveals his Proposed Compromised Amendment to Senate CIR 2013, S. 744

Sen. Cornyn is one of the Republican Senators who objected to the S. 744, as amended, at the end of the markup sessions in the Senate Judiciary Committee. He now reveals his proposed amendment which is likely to be introduced on the Senate floor next week. This will be one of the important compromise amendments which will be introduced to expand the number of Senators to support the S. 744. Please read the following outline and news report
Outline
Statement
Sen. Cornyn is the Republican Ranking Member of the Senate Judiciary Immigration Subcommittee.

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Originally Posted by rupen86

From Oh Law firm,

06/06/2013: Sen. John Cornyn Reveals his Proposed Compromised Amendment to Senate CIR 2013, S. 744

Sen. Cornyn is one of the Republican Senators who objected to the S. 744, as amended, at the end of the markup sessions in the Senate Judiciary Committee. He now reveals his proposed amendment which is likely to be introduced on the Senate floor next week. This will be one of the important compromise amendments which will be introduced to expand the number of Senators to support the S. 744. Please read the following outline and news report
Outline
Statement
Sen. Cornyn is the Republican Ranking Member of the Senate Judiciary Immigration Subcommittee.

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NEWS: Sen Reid filing a cloture motion S. 744 on Friday June 7th 2013

The following one might be a reminder for all of us.. to know about /cloture motion.

cloture - The only procedure by which the Senate can vote to place a time limit on consideration of a bill or other matter, and thereby overcome a filibuster. Under the cloture rule (Rule XXII), the Senate may limit consideration of a pending matter to 30 additional hours, but only by vote of three-fifths of the full Senate, normally 60 votes.

http://www.senate.gov/reference/glos...rm/cloture.htm

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Originally Posted by immitime

NEWS: Sen Reid filing a cloture motion S. 744 on Friday June 7th 2013

The following one might be a reminder for all of us.. to know about /cloture motion.

cloture - The only procedure by which the Senate can vote to place a time limit on consideration of a bill or other matter, and thereby overcome a filibuster. Under the cloture rule (Rule XXII), the Senate may limit consideration of a pending matter to 30 additional hours, but only by vote of three-fifths of the full Senate, normally 60 votes.

http://www.senate.gov/reference/glos...rm/cloture.htm

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To immitime
The cloture motion is not on the Bill itself but merely on the motion to proceed to consideration of the Bill.60 votes are needed to overcome any holds although this seems unlikely. In fact when Mr.McConnell did not object,many observers felt that this additional step was not necessary but I guess Mr.Reid followed his usual playbook. If the cloture prevails then there will be a few weeks of debate followed by amendments.There will be a second cloture motion to close off debate at some point when everybody has had their say followed by the actual vote on the Bill for which only a simple majority is needed

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Originally Posted by gs1968

To immitime
The cloture motion is not on the Bill itself but merely on the motion to proceed to consideration of the Bill.60 votes are needed to overcome any holds although this seems unlikely. In fact when Mr.McConnell did not object,many observers felt that this additional step was not necessary but I guess Mr.Reid followed his usual playbook. If the cloture prevails then there will be a few weeks of debate followed by amendments.There will be a second cloture motion to close off debate at some point when everybody has had their say followed by the actual vote on the Bill for which only a simple majority is needed

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You underestimate a certain Mr. Jeff Sessions of the great state of Alabama.

To abcx13
Not to mention 200+ of his clones in the House!

A different perspective from an die-hard conservative columnist

http://thehill.com/blogs/pundits-blo...rm-still-alive

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Originally Posted by gs1968

http://thehill.com/blogs/pundits-blo...rm-still-alive

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That actually makes lot of sense:

"The key in the House will be to make any amnesty or citizenship path wholly contingent on border security enforcement, specifying that the process cannot begin until the border is sealed. This means that immigration reform, Republican-style, is a border security bill with amnesty and citizenship thrown in as an incentive and a reward for compliance. In that context, it will probably clear the House.
The Senate and the White House may rail against the Republican alternative, but they have no real choice but to pass it and sign it."

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Originally Posted by gs1968

To abcx13
Not to mention 200+ of his clones in the House!

A different perspective from an die-hard conservative columnist

http://thehill.com/blogs/pundits-blo...rm-still-alive

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It is a good analysis.

Is there a good article that explains why stricter border control conflicts with the amnesty proposal?

I don't know any article but the reason it conflicts with CIR because of 2 reasons.
A) Stricter (border control) is vague and full (border control) is unattainable. Thus either only serves as a mokey wrench in any immigration reform talk.
B) Under Obama border is much better controlled than it was under Bush. Homeland security statistics prove that. So any talk of border control is mostly political and in opposition to any immigration reform effort.

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Originally Posted by seahawks2012

Is there a good article that explains why stricter border control conflicts with the amnesty proposal?

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Funny that the article starts with the word posturing! That is a good sign!

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Originally Posted by gs1968

http://thehill.com/blogs/pundits-blo...rm-still-alive

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I like today's mood on this forum better than yesterday.To make everybody smile-here are a few of Rep King's famous Quotes for weekend reading-

http://www.deathandtaxesmag.com/1999...eatest-quotes/

Generic reply from Rubio

Dear Dr......,



Thank you for writing to me to express your concerns regarding the ongoing debate about immigration reform. I understand this is an important issue and I appreciate hearing your thoughts.



As the immigration proposal comes to the Senate floor for debate and amendments, I am hopeful that we can strengthen enforcement and security mechanisms in the legislation while still offering an arduous, but fair path forward for illegal immigrants currently in the United States. However, if enforcement and security is not strengthened during the amendment process, I will not support the immigration bill before the Senate. Thank you for your comments and concerns, I will certainly keep them in mind as immigration reform measures move forward and inform you of my approach to immigration reform following the Senate floor debate.



It is an honor and a privilege to serve as your United States Senator. I appreciate you offering your opinion on this important issue. If I can ever be of assistance to you, please do not hesitate to contact me.



Sincerely,

Marco Rubio
United States Senator

Generic reply from Rubio

Dear Dr......,



Thank you for writing to me to express your concerns regarding the ongoing debate about immigration reform. I understand this is an important issue and I appreciate hearing your thoughts.



As the immigration proposal comes to the Senate floor for debate and amendments, I am hopeful that we can strengthen enforcement and security mechanisms in the legislation while still offering an arduous, but fair path forward for illegal immigrants currently in the United States. However, if enforcement and security is not strengthened during the amendment process, I will not support the immigration bill before the Senate. Thank you for your comments and concerns, I will certainly keep them in mind as immigration reform measures move forward and inform you of my approach to immigration reform following the Senate floor debate.



It is an honor and a privilege to serve as your United States Senator. I appreciate you offering your opinion on this important issue. If I can ever be of assistance to you, please do not hesitate to contact me.



Sincerely,

Marco Rubio
United States Senator

Some perspective from the House

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/...on-everything/

The withdrawal of Rep Labrador is unfortunate as he is the only member of the Group of 8 that sits on the Judiciary committee.However the others have been at it much longer and have higher stakes (more skin in the game according to Rep Carter) and may come out with a better package.

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Originally Posted by gs1968

Some perspective from the House

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/...on-everything/

The withdrawal of Rep Labrador is unfortunate as he is the only member of the Group of 8 that sits on the Judiciary committee.However the others have been at it much longer and have higher stakes (more skin in the game according to Rep Carter) and may come out with a better package.

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I do not know what to make out from the interview. It seems little pessimistic or as in the end as he says cautiously optimistic. I do not get clear directions from that whether it is comprehensive vs piecemeal or whether it is path to citizenship or whether it is H1B. The questions were corrected and pointed but answers were not.

Some hope...
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...%3Dinteractive

Positive news but again she is from NH and is already feeling the heat for her gun-control vote

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-3460_162...igration-bill/

The House is clearly not rushing to immigration reform any time soon as we probably know already.The only positive is that the House Judiciary Committee has scheduled a hearing (not a mark-up) of the SAFE Act this week sponsored by Rep.Gowdy which increases interior enforcement of immigration laws in local communities. This is part of the piecemeal Bills being worked on by the Judiciary Committee

Chairman Goodlatte wrote an op-ed in the Roanoke Times yesterday and the link is below

http://www.roanoke.com/opinion/point...gislation.html

"We plan to build upon this work to build consensus on these important issues in the weeks and months ahead. This process of regular order allows every representative to fully vet the issues and provides the opportunity to have the voices of the 6th Congressional District and folks across the nation heard."

gs/others - is there a consolidated list of 'S.744-what happens in next 1-2 weeks on senate floor' information ? senate judiciary website was such place during judiciary process.
i read somewhere that they were going to vote starting tomorrow. i understand this is one of many (up/down, amendment,final bill) votes and hence the question. tx.

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Originally Posted by qesehmk

I don't know any article but the reason it conflicts with CIR because of 2 reasons.
A) Stricter (border control) is vague and full (border control) is unattainable. Thus either only serves as a mokey wrench in any immigration reform talk.
B) Under Obama border is much better controlled than it was under Bush. Homeland security statistics prove that. So any talk of border control is mostly political and in opposition to any immigration reform effort.

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Q
It may very well be true that border control is better with this administration. But admission of unattainability defeats the purpose of whole immigration reform. It's hard for americans to believe that superpower can not control it's borders regardeless of this reform while their phone records, emails being scanned every minute. If border indeed cannot be controlled 100 or 90% then isn't it true that the country is not ready for this. I hope the this debate results into a practical and possible method to control the border and legalize who is inside already

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Originally Posted by bieber

Q
It may very well be true that border control is better with this administration. But admission of unattainability defeats the purpose of whole immigration reform. It's hard for americans to believe that superpower can not control it's borders regardeless of this reform while their phone records, emails being scanned every minute. If border indeed cannot be controlled 100 or 90% then isn't it true that the country is not ready for this. I hope the this debate results into a practical and possible method to control the border and legalize who is inside already

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the issue is not so much about ability but more about practicality. I'm sure you could get the border 100% secure if you throw enough money at it but the question is- is it worth it? there's the law of diminishing returns when federal funds could be used elsewhere. The GOP already has issues with govt spending and the debt ceiling.

By the way, I'm all for border security and everify and exit/entry and all that but there's got to be some common sense in the process.

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Originally Posted by vizcard

the issue is not so much about ability but more about practicality. I'm sure you could get the border 100% secure if you throw enough money at it but the question is- is it worth it? there's the law of diminishing returns when federal funds could be used elsewhere. The GOP already has issues with govt spending and the debt ceiling.

By the way, I'm all for border security and everify and exit/entry and all that but there's got to be some common sense in the process.

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Viz
It's required by constitution that borders are protected in the sovereign nation. National security is probably the only item where majority has similar views

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Originally Posted by kiddo9256

gs/others - is there a consolidated list of 'S.744-what happens in next 1-2 weeks on senate floor' information ? senate judiciary website was such place during judiciary process.
i read somewhere that they were going to vote starting tomorrow. i understand this is one of many (up/down, amendment,final bill) votes and hence the question. tx.

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The cloture vote is tomorrow after which the Majority & Minority leaders will start filling up the amendment tree. Unlike the judiciary committee the amendments will be in the few dozens rather than the hundreds as seen in the Committee but the amendments will be complex and will need debate on their own.

I am confused by this news item below which contradicts my earlier "deliberate pace" news story. But this is coming from the leadership or their aides while the other story was from Rep.Goodlatte -Are they not talking to each other?

http://www.newsmax.com/politics/hous...6/10/id/509060

Another story with slightly more detail

http://latino.foxnews.com/latino/pol...ill-by-summer/

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Originally Posted by kiddo9256

gs/others - is there a consolidated list of 'S.744-what happens in next 1-2 weeks on senate floor' information ? senate judiciary website was such place during judiciary process.
i read somewhere that they were going to vote starting tomorrow. i understand this is one of many (up/down, amendment,final bill) votes and hence the question. tx.

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I found this link-hope this helps

http://immigrationimpact.com/2013/06...igration-bill/