http://www.topix.com/forum/news/immi...1LTU08N5JTBTM2
Thanks lalaji. This was going to happen. GOP will not let anything go through which has word "illegal or undocumented" in it. Lets see what happens to the bill introduced by Scott Brown and Mark Kirk for Irish which does not have provision for illegal Irish workers.Quote:
Originally Posted by lalaji
Having said that, I hope that nutcase Chuck Grassley has to eat crow next year with HR 3012. It will be a thing of immense pleasure to all EB Indian community.
Enough said, I will leave you with one interesting quote from Grassley.
The bottom line is, there have been a lot of nuts elected to the United States Senate. - Chuck Grassley
How apt? But I am sure he is not aware that he is the top one among them.
Merry Christmas.
http://irishecho.com/?p=68703
Christmas it’s a relative blizzard.
At the same time, the situation surrounding a possible visa bonanza for the Irish is more opaque this week than snowy and bright after a second E-3 bill emerged in the U.S. Senate.
The bill, crafted by Senator Scott Brown of Massachusetts and Mark Kirk of Illinois, both Republicans, in part reflects the first bill written up by Democratic Senator Charles Schumer of New York.
But it differs in one key respect. While the Schumer bill, which is cosponsored by Senators Patrick Leahy of Vermont and Dick Durbin of Illinois, contains a provision granting waivers for undocumented Irish hoping for relief by means of an E-3 visa, the Brown/Kirk measure does not.
And the very existence of two bills in a Congress that will go down in history as a rival to the feuding Hatfields and McCoys is causing concern and uncertainty among advocates for greater legal access to the United States for the Irish.
The Schumer measure, which would allocate 10,000 E-3 visas a year for eligible Irish applicants, came on the heels of a House of Representatives move upping the annual green card numbers for citizens of India, China, Mexico and the Philippines.
It was initially anticipated that the Senate and House measures were to be paired, but the arrival of the second bill has muddied the waters.
The E-3 is not a green card but a two year renewable visa that is granted if the successful applicant secures a job offer. Several countries currently have reciprocal E-3 visa deals with the U.S., most notably Australia.
The Schumer bill, critically, would offer a way for the undocumented Irish to apply for an E-3.
The Brown/Kirk bill, dubbed the Irish Immigration Reform and Encouragement (IRE) Act of 2011, adds the “Republic of Ireland” to the ongoing E-3 visa program, providing 10,500 employment visas that, according to a statement from the two senators, have no limit on the number of renewals allowed.
“The United States and Ireland have a close bond, and our people remain tightly knit through a long history of Irish immigration. Sadly, inefficiencies in our immigration program have resulted in increasingly poor prospects for Irish immigrants,” said Senator Brown.
“This legislation rectifies the decades-long plight by including the Irish in a special visa program that encourages their skilled workers to come to our shores. Legal immigration is the foundation of America, and we must continue to find ways to improve our visa and green card programs, especially when it comes to the treatment of our strongest allies and closest friends,” he said.
The accompanying statement said that the Brown/Kirk bill “recognizes the damage done to Irish immigration prospects in the Immigration and Nationality Act of 1965 and therefore adds the Republic of Ireland into the E-3 visa program.”
It specifies an annual total of 10,500 employment visas available for the Irish.
It further describes the measure as “a standalone bill that does not include controversial immigration provisions that could weaken national security and rule of law.”
It “recognizes the history between Ireland and the United States, and the importance of increased Irish immigration.”
Action on one or both bills is not anticipated until next month as the Senate has gone into holiday recess.
However, there is already a behind the scenes debate on just where the Irish now stand with two E-3 bills as opposed to one which would have cross-party backing.
Some activists are concerned that there is now an all too familiar partisan divide between the parties on the specific matter of a waiver for the undocumented, though it would appear possible that across the aisle agreement is possible on the matter of E-3 visas for applicants based in Ireland.
The emergence of the bills follows years of lobbying by Irish immigration advocacy groups who ultimately support comprehensive immigration reform, a goal that has proved elusive.
The Schumer bill came into the light of day after a series of meetings between senators and members of the Irish Lobby for Immigration Reform, the Ancient Order of Hibernians, Chicago Celts for Immigration Reform, and representatives of Irish immigration centers in various U.S. cities.
The Irish government is also supportive of an E-3 program similar to the one that applies to Australia.
HR 3012 was read on Dec 17 on the Senate floor. A bill must be read second time and if motion to proceed and motion to cloture are presented, we will learn whether there will be a filibuster by Sen. Grassley. HR 3012 is quite not dead yet.
Source: http://aegedu.com/blog/hr-3012-place...nate-calander/
The OH law firm reports today: - weblink: http://www.immigration-law.com/ --------------------we all know this already thought will share this.
12/27/2011: CRS Summary of H.R. 3012 as Passed by the House
This summary gives a good picture of this bill, as finally passed in the House and pending in the Senate, in a fashion which lay people can easily read and understand. Again, this bill was passed in the House by absolute majority. It is hoped that this bill be taken up on the Senate floor early in the Second Session of the 112th Congress in one way or another. The Senate will not return to the Congress until after January 23, 2012, though. This legislation will open a new chapter for the employment-based immigration in this country in achieving fairness in employment-based immigrationin system in that it will remove the artifically imposed cap per each country allegedly to achieve diversity in the newly arriving immigrant workers under the current law.Link for CRS summary
http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquer...:@@@D&summ2=m&
Interesting article....
http://irishecho.com/?p=68814
This is latest news about Irish's reform efforts:
http://irishecho.com/?p=68814
"According to the ILIR’s Ciaran Staunton, 53 Democratic senators are lined up to support the Schumer bill which is a Senate companion to an approved House bill, H.R. 3012"
Obviously Schumer's bill S.1983 has got overwhelming supports from Senate Demos. However a well-known fact is, Irish reform must be bond with 3012 to pass House; otherwise if 3012 passes alone, Irish reform will never pass the House by itself. Those 53 Senate Demos of course know this fact, so the question is: who moved original 3012 under Rule 14, and why???
Answer is here:
http://www.irishcentral.com/news/Democrats-move...
It says Leahy tried to move S.1983 on 12/16 (Friday) but blocked by GOP. This is important but vague information, leading to such questions:
1. S.1983 was already read twice and referred to Judiciary Committee, what move can Leahy push for?
2. What "block" can happen given that no debate or vote was involved?
It's not difficult to answer these questions with some basic legislative knowledge. A bill referred to Committee must be put on Committee calendar for further consideration/discussion. Who determine the Committee calendar? Grassley and Leahy. Obviously the "move" by Leahy is trying to put S.1983 on Committee calendar, but Grassley refused. Given that Grassley is GOP, and would not like any form of 3012 to pass, he has sufficient reason to stop S.1983 in the Committee.
Now, we have another proof to the analysis above. Yes, that's the 3012 move under Rule 14. Since S.1983 was already referred to Committee, it's no longer applicable for Rule 14, which means Grassley's opposition can sentence S.1983 to death. Given this, the Demos and Leahy selected original 3012 to apply Rule 14, so it can get across Committee and Grassley. That's why 3012 was moved under Rule 14 on 12/17, just ONE DAY AFTER Leahy's failure to move S.1983 (12/16).
What to expect next? Well, given Irish have Leahy/Schumer/Durbin and 53 Senate Demos (of coz including Harry Reid), they will definitely bind Irish reforms with 3012. Then 3012 will be sent to House for whole legislative procedures again. Will House approve 3012+Irish reform? That's something we will see. But anyway, this is another exciting US political show, and all immigrants are invited for free.
From oh law firm:
12/28/2011: Irish Media Report Expressing Frustration with Two Partisan E-3 Bills Instead of One Bi-Partisan Bill in the Senate
As we reported earlier, the Irish community has been working hard for E-3 visa legislation which is similar to the E-3 visas which are allowed for the Australians. Sen. Chuck Schumer, along with other two leading senior Democratic Senators, introduced as bill as part of their version of H.R. 3012 for which the Indians and Chinese have a huge stake. Unfortuantely, the Schumer bill remains a Democrat bill without a Republican co-sponsor. Later, a Republican Senator from Massachusetts, Sen. Brown, introducted Republican bill for EB-3 visa excluding undocumented alien relief provision and H.R. 3012 provisions. From the perspectives of Irish community, the Schumer bill is preferrable because their undocumented Irish people can receive benefits. Unfortunately, the undocumented Irish provision can trigger a hostility among Republican Senators and conservative Democratic Senators in the Senate. Besides, even if it is passed in the Senate, the Republican majority House may not give a full support which they showed in H.R. 3012 because of the undocumented alien relief provision of the Schumer bill. From the Irish perspectives, they currently have a better chance to achieve the E-3 visa legislation both in the Senate and the House, but it will cripple their initial wish and dream. For the reasons, they are agonizing in predicament. Read on.
From the perspectives of H.R. 3012 sponsors, both Sen. Brown bill and Sen. Schumer bill in a way pose a problem to achieve their dream to achieve the goal of H.R. 3012 by taggingj it to the Irish visa bill. On the other hand, H.R. 3012 still has a problem to make it through in the Senate without the support of Irish community because Sen. Grassley still stands tall to halt the bill. It is quite an unticipated development at this time for the supporters of H.R. 3012. Hmm.....................
Google's Eric Schmidt was on CNN last night (12/27) and said "its a tragic thing that this country allows thounsands of smart immigrants from India and China to come do their Masters and PHDs and then let them go back to their home country to try out their innovations. We need a way to stop this so that they choose to make the US their permanent homes". I thought it was odd that he said this so emphatically on CNN and hoping he is backing HR 3012 big time.
It will be disastrous to believe the news item coming on Irish site about E-3 and afterwards thinking that it will harm 3012. Irish E-3 Visa is a seperate issue, Nobody tried to attach it with 3012. Schumer have seperate bill and also Scott Brown have one for E-3Visa with and without amnesty. What we are mostly seeing in irish websites are schumer bill they read and waiting for committee. Sen.Shcumer clearly said When he introduced 1983, if this is not going with H.R.3012, he will try other options. All the news item comes until senate is alive again on Jan 23rd is really fear mongering and purely for website traffic. If Irish's are powerful, on the same note tech lobby is more powerful especialy during an election year. We have to wait for Jan 23rd to see the real political drama unveil itself. The order of the day is If there is no news, the speculation of people's mind becomes news Item. Which can be ignored then and there.
Happy New year to All.
Well said !Quote:
Originally Posted by immitime
Schumer bill is HR3012+E3, Please refer SEC 1,2 & 3 in the below link
http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c112:S.1983:
Yes Schumer bill contains H.R.3012 in it. There can be 1000 bills with H.R.3012 on it, before 3012 passes and becomes Law. Each Senators want to have their interest (immigration based) protrayed in an election year, due to various reasons, can be political also. 1983 can go to House for a vote but defintiely not H.R. 3012 in its present form.Quote:
Originally Posted by lalaji
The reason they are including H.R.3012 in it is there is a chance at least Senators will look at the bill. The dog seeing Fire Hydrant story again. So no way this bill will affect H.R. 3012 as a stand alone bill. No body added any amendment so far to H.R. 3012 that still remains a stand alone bill.
thanks for the clarification immitime.
This is how Sen Grassley's opposition was overcome by Jack Abramoff's lobbying - raising funds for Sen. Grassley's campaign. http://www.npr.org/blogs/money/2011/...-lobbying#more
Sen. Grassley's office maintains it acted au contraire and continued to oppose but we know it was intentionally late and tardy.
hmmmm...interesting..very interesting...
Update from Oh Law firm:
12/28/2011: Senator Brown Asked Sen. Grassley to Include his E-3 Bill as H.R. 3012 Amendment in the Senate, not Schumer Bill, as Part of his Negotiation for H.R.3012 Compromise?
Hmm....... The development in the Senate surrounding H.R. 3012 amendment by Irish community and dueling of the two Senators involving two different text of E-3 visa for Irish for H.R. 3012 amendment are getting interesting, juicy, snoopy, and thrilling! What an interesting ally to H.R. 3012?! Without doubt, H.R. 3012 has contributed in part to the 'Rising Star' celebrity status of Rep. Chaffetz. Read on.
Happy New Year to everyone!!!
Happy New Year to you too. Hope 2012 brings better news for HR3012.
Tech lobbies behind H.R.3012...
http://www.opensecrets.org/lobby/billsum.php?id=128399
Happy New Year to ALL!!:DQuote:
Originally Posted by immitime
Is there anything more we can do to support HR 3012 from our end?
:) Happy New year..Quote:
Originally Posted by iamdeb
Call your area congressmen & ask em to support 3012 and if you have already done that
I would suggest sit tight till right before Senate convenes..and start calling them again..
Jack,Quote:
Originally Posted by jackbrown_890
For now only Senators! I know you meant Senators..:-)
Irish lobby is getting stronger
From Oh Law firm update:
The Ancient Order of Hibernians is this week praising the emergence of not one, but two bills in Congress that promise E-3 renewable visas to Irish applicants.
In a statement, The order avoided placing itself in between the two bills, one offered by Senate Democrats, and the other by Senate Republicans, and instead focused on the reasons why Ireland should be the recipient of an E-3 visa deal, much in the way that Australia secured one a few years ago.
The statement, signed by National President Seamus Boyle, and Dan Dennehy, the order’s national immigration chairman, reiterated that since its inception 175 years ago, the AOH has been active in working to improve the lives of Irish immigrants.
The statement, which is reproduced here in its near entirety said: “Now celebrating our 175th year, we continue to live up to the preamble of the AOH Constitution which requires that we encourage an equitable U.S. Immigration law for Ireland, and to cooperate with all groups for a fair American immigration policy.
“In the 1960s, AOH members participated in an effort to prevent removal of the quota of Irish visas by the Immigration Act of 1965. Those concerns were proven as successive economic downturns have left many of the Irish without the option to emigrate legally to the U.S. In the last 25 years, AOH has worked with the Irish Immigration Reform Movement, Irish Lobby For Immigration Reform, as well as many other organizations and government officials from the two nations, and elsewhere, to rectify the quota and restore the important cultural exchange between Ireland and the U.S.
“Current events and developments prove our understanding of the need to work with others to meet this goal. One of the great developments of the recent weeks was a videoconference and one week later a teleconference facilitated by the Coalition of Irish Immigration Centers and the Irish embassy.
“In cities across the U.S., Irish immigration advocates, in many cases seeing and speaking live to each other for the first time, shared ideas on the recent moves by Congress.
“AOH, ILIR and Rep. Bruce Morrison, Boston Irish and Chicago Celts and several other advocacy groups outlined recent work towards an Irish E3 and concerns for the undocumented. We look forward to working with all of the groups towards a successful outcome.
“The second and more immediate development is the introduction of two bills that propose an Irish E3. The first bill was proposed by Senators Schumer, Leahy and Durbin and it was quickly followed by the Irish Immigration and Encouragement Act sponsored by Republican Senators Brown (MA) and Kirk (IL).
“While neither bill solves the undocumented issue, they do address future flow from Ireland. The bills would modify the E3 visa, currently available to only Australia and a few select countries. The modifications would recognize Ireland’s excellent education system and allows Irish Nationals with a ‘leaving cert’ or two years experience in a trade to apply for 10,500 two year renewable visas. We are grateful to the sponsors of both of these bills for their recognition of the longstanding inequities relating to immigration from Ireland.
“Right now, AOH members across the U.S. are meeting and reaching out to their U.S. representatives and senators as part of the initiative to secure “the Irish E3 Visa.” The AOH maintains that Ireland has been extremely supportive to U.S. Homeland Security and Defense with the Shannon Stopover of U.S. Troops coming and going from the War On Terror and the innovations of U.S. Customs and Immigration at Ireland’s Shannon and Dublin airports.
“We are asking Congress to thank Ireland with an E3 as it had Australia in 2005. In this way, with 10,500 annual renewable visas, a secure and legal path to immigration will be restored, preventing the need for Irish people to seek less desirable methods to escape the current economic hardships in Ireland and strengthen the bond between our two nations.”
yup "Senators"Quote:
Originally Posted by immitime
Thanks to Attorney Matthew OH , that he stopped mixing H.R.3012 with Irish E-3 issue which un-necessary creates chaos in the minds of less informed Folks, As indicated earlier H.R.3012 will pass as it is. with out any amendment for sure as of now.;)Quote:
Originally Posted by lalaji
I hope this happens with in couple of weeks or in a month as soon as senate comes back from recession.....as days pass may objections pop up and also this is election year....fingers crossed...hoping the bill passes at the earliest :)
Quote:
Originally Posted by immitime
few weeks old article: some more ammunition if anyone need with some more studies/data
http://www.inc.com/eric-markowitz/im...-creators.html
Quote:
Originally Posted by mesan123
Let it Pass.. ASAP all our prayers and support will increase the passage of this bill in a shorter timeline from now.;););)
Yeah. The following in above article is the great mantra all the Politicians agree,during election year.Quote:
Originally Posted by jackbrown_890
"There's a possibility that we can move on smaller measures that would be less controversial that don't involve comprehensive immigration reform," Anderson says. "That small success may breed larger success."
I know lot of us want to do something about 3012..but congress is in recess and won't be back till Jan. 23. so I would like to start a debate on what/if we should do (advocacy) after 3012. no comprehensive reform but piecemeal like 3012
Please reply with your suggestions on our options/opportunities to convince someone in congress to more for EB community (options that have chances of being introduced and/or becoming law in 2012)
I am just throwing ideas:
We do have few options but i was thinking of:
* what if we come up with an idea of working with one or more congresswoman for introducing a legislation which includes (with possibly help of woman's rights organizations):
EAD for H4 spouses + exclusion of dependents from EB numbers (because that is not FAIR to H4 dependents that they can't legally work) (another FAIR bill)
the reason behind congressWOMAN is because in my understanding there are lots of H4 dependents who are women married to H1 holder men. (probably more women thn men)
We first need some numbers on the ratio of H4 dependents (male vs female)
We can thn contact Woman's rights group like (NOW) and explain them many women can't work because of this law that dependents of H1 are not allowed to work in USA since majority of H4 dependents are women...(if it is true)
On top of that if H4 spouses can work thn they will have a right apply for their own EB visa separate from their Spouse. if they get their own EB visa thn it will count towards EB visa number and if they don't work thn it should not count towards EB number.....
here the argument could be encouraging them to apply for their own EB visa by allowing them to work and making them independent and if the dependents are not using visa numbers (140,000), they can have a program for next 3-5 years or more by reserving 7% of 140,000 for dependent spouse...which will encourage them to be independent (in this case specially women)
So the argument is the law that h4 can't work actually make and/or in a way paralyzes lot of women to be dependents to their husbands.
Specially in cases like Chinese and Indians since they can't get their GCs for years and they have to stay here on h1/h4 for years..thus h4 holders can't work for years.. unless they get their own h1b..(i don't have the data/numbers to back the arguments) (I may be totally wrong since this was my guess and not majority H4s are women--- or may be majority h4 get h1) please provide information on this if you have any information...
Does any of these make sense???
I am just trying to start the debate on this issue until we become active (when senate comes back)..and there is a possibility people may have already discussed this here or on other forums...
Let me know your thoughts...
Thank you.
We had drafted a petition sometime back which had the following key points:
1. FIFO for EB Visas without country caps - this turned into HR-3012
2. Do not count dependents in EB visa cap - can be done with an administrative fix
3. Recapture of lost visas - seems politically untenable
Your point above is valid and should be added:
4. Allow dependents (H4) to work and study in the US
Quote:
Originally Posted by jackbrown_890
I should say I am against any kind of reservation from the 140K pool. We have so little numbers already, so there is no scope for reservation. If they need additional numbers, let the visa numbers go up by that many numbers.
Exemption of dependents from visa numbers is the best option.
If that does not work, dependents should be able to draw visa numbers from FB category and be able to apply for AOS based on their primary's PD in EB category. - a bit twisted logic -- I know
Technically dependents should not draw visa numbers from EB category as their visa is not based on labor certification or I-140. If I am not mistaken in diversity visa dependents are already exempt from visa numbers.
Jack,
There is a proposal for this on reginfo, which states implementation date as 03/2012(admin fix without legislation)
http://www.reginfo.gov/public/do/eAg...&RIN=1653-AA56
But I will always suspect this why because previously there was same kind of rule making agenda for filing of I-485 (adjustment of status not exactly but pre-registration when the PD is not current.) for any approved I-140. But this was way back in 2008-2009, our Great Uncle grassley and his companion tails in USCIS leaked the USCIS memo and made it a big issue, Uncle wrote a letter along with 3 other senators to Mr.Mayorkas to stop this. it seems USCIS agreed to it, and it was abandoned.
Uncle is a great hinderance to all the good thinking lawful immigrants.. Uncle should be educated by lobbying for his election campaign ( tons of money, texas farmhouse, private chopper, private planes to use) or in the Senate/Congress this fillibuster rule should be eliminated by amendment. otherhwise no immigration bill or adminfix will be passed on time with out cloture motion as per the political situation today. (eventhough just 6 months before last senate election, Uncle decided not to contest, but for unknown reasons he contested again and won from Iowa.)
Moral of the story: - More than Truth and Justice, Money (so called lobbying and political power prevails.
I remember reading it on Reginfo long time ago...
may be we should start a petition to support the idea of allowing H4 dependents from Woman's rights point of view by allowing them to be independent..and include this admin fix..
i am sure if we have a petition,,hopefully one of the congressmen/women will notice the petition and may decide to do something about it by bringing up a legislation..if we get support from woman's rights group.
and i agree "lobbying" would be great but if we had that much money...may be ** is doing that with all the money they are getting from donations..
GCQ
i too don't like the idea of any reservation but the reason i mentioned reservation is because it may give n incentive to woman's rights group to give us their full support..
and i said - reserved visas out of 140,000 because,, house is controlled by Republicans and they will not allow any visa number increase at all.. I think bill any increase in visa number will not even make it out any subcommittee in today political climate
H4 is for spouses..not specifically men or women.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jackbrown_890
I know it is for Spouses..but if you read my earlier post. it says clearly,, it is my assumption - (and i am not sure if the numbers/data will support my argument) that majority of H4 are Women..
Good idea, we can create petitons which will give information to the Congressmen/Senators, but without Lobbying nothing is going to move as legislation. And there can be another argument here like if L2 spouses/dependents can work why not H4? Women rights may not be a valuable argument, As Self.Coach said H4 is only for dependents!Quote:
Originally Posted by jackbrown_890
Even L1 visa is for 5 years. and 5 years is a long time.Quote:
Originally Posted by sportsfan33
Lawyers concerns and information should be taken always with a pinch of salt. We can see various lawyers predicting and failing miserably. If by the lawyers logic I am suprised why can't they make the date current for all?? more taxes more revenue. is it not? No logic in that argument.;)
CO cannot/do not make policy decisions. He is just another government officer assigned with the duty of allocating visa numbers as per the law. If lawyer/CO thinks otherwise, they are wrong.
Just one word I would say "Immigration is Broken and they should fix it" ;) Whatever debate we are having here, is not going to make any change. it is what it is.Quote:
Originally Posted by sportsfan33
Yes we can be clear about things with available data.
So the next question is, if we start a petition, what should be include in our petition..
EB spouses and H4 Spouses are both dependents and lot of times same..so solving EB problem i.e. allowing EADs after clearance of I140 may in a way solve H4 problems too,
And i do understand we don't want to mix woman's rights issue and H4 are not directly co-related but indirectly they,,but not to mix them
back to the main point: so what else should we include in this so called "new petition" in support of d idea of "dependents should not draw visa numbers from EB category"
I do think, keep it small (piecemeal) and not include lot of stuff with it and it will have more chances of being introduced and eventually passing in the congress in this political climate..
anyone wants to take a lead in drafting a petition?
Here is one point from old petition (was created with help of q members and also with help of ** members):
Remove Counting of Family Members towards EB visa Cap.
Today Family members (i.e. dependents of the primary EB applicant) are counted towards the EB cap. It makes the already paltry and artificial EB cap even smaller allowing approximately only 60K true skilled workers to enter the workforce every year.
also words from another petition from Change.org
Currently dependents of certain visa holders are allowed to obtain work authorization in US, whereas this basic right is denied to another class of legal dependents ( H4 Visa holders who are the dependents of H1 temporary work visa holders). This disrupts their career, makes them financially dependent on their spouse,reduce the quality of life drastically which leads to depression, stress and low self esteem.
A change is required in the law to allow these Dependents to acquire Employment Authorization Letter(EAD) to work temporarily in US, like other dependent visa holders like L2,E3,J2 etc.
We need few more points for this petition: help pls
TY