Discussion On The Politics of Immigration Reform (Comprehensive Or Otherwise)

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Originally Posted by qesehmk

Revised Summary (for EB immigration reform in order of Importance)

From Reuters
1. Existing Backlog will be eliminated. (Doesn't say how).
2. American graduates to have a separate quota (within overall limits).
3. Enterpreneurs to get a separate quota (other than E5)
4. Fifth year onwards merit based visas (similar to canada or UK)

Another far reaching provision that is sure going to create backlog in future is that H1B cap is being raised to 110K with max cap at 180K.

From Scribd
1. Elimination of country cap for

• Dependents
• EB1-A & B & C
• PHD in STEM
• Doctors

2. Change in composition of visas as follows

• EB1 - no quota - no limits
• EB2 + EB3 w US degrees - 40%
• EB3 - 40%
• EB4 - 10%
• EB5 - 10%
• Additionally a startup visa category (may be part of EB5 - except that startup visa will be much less stringent on investment and jobs created)

3. Long term overhaul of current system

• All caps will be removed effectively by moving to merit based system
• Merit based cap will keep increasing to 240K max as long as US unemployment is under 8.5% (this is quite funny since it barely exceeded 8.5% even under worst conditions in 2008-2009)
• Chronic backlogs will get special visas (not clear if under then current quota or not)

Again ... our understanding will evolve .... so lets keep revising ...

Also keep in mind that either reuters or scribd are not really authenticate enough to consider this as final word on this bill.

Good luck to everybody.

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It is not just elimination of "country cap" for EB1, Q. It is exclusion from numerical cap altogether.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by qesehmk

Revised Summary (for EB immigration reform in order of Importance)

From Reuters
1. Existing Backlog will be eliminated. (Doesn't say how).
2. American graduates to have a separate quota (within overall limits).
3. Enterpreneurs to get a separate quota (other than E5)
4. Fifth year onwards merit based visas (similar to canada or UK)

Another far reaching provision that is sure going to create backlog in future is that H1B cap is being raised to 110K with max cap at 180K.

From Scribd
1. Elimination of country cap for

• Dependents
• EB1-A & B & C
• PHD in STEM
• Doctors

2. Change in composition of visas as follows

• EB1 - no quota - no limits
• EB2 + EB3 w US degrees - 40%
• EB3 - 40%
• EB4 - 10%
• EB5 - 10%
• Additionally a startup visa category (may be part of EB5 - except that startup visa will be much less stringent on investment and jobs created)

3. Long term overhaul of current system

• All caps will be removed effectively by moving to merit based system
• Merit based cap will keep increasing to 240K max as long as US unemployment is under 8.5% (this is quite funny since it barely exceeded 8.5% even under worst conditions in 2008-2009)
• Chronic backlogs will get special visas (not clear if under then current quota or not)

Again ... our understanding will evolve .... so lets keep revising ...

Also keep in mind that either reuters or scribd are not really authenticate enough to consider this as final word on this bill.

Good luck to everybody.

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Q - I agree with kd that you should not refer to part 1 as elimination of country cap. It is elimination of quota.

Secondly, my understanding is that "new" EB2 is "old" EB2 + "old" EB3 with US STEM MS in past five years (so will benefit those where employer did not file in EB3 I think). This will increase EB2 demand since even ROW EB3 with US STEM MS can then file under EB2 and they will be current.

This is kind of a crappy bill for legals if this is all they could come up with. Really I mean? You can legalize 11m but can only increase legal GCs by some 100-140k/yr? And they probably aren't even increasing when you consider reallocation from FB...

Also, for folks agitating for recapture, while I support it as an alleviating measure, remember that it is NOT a permanent fix...

[

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kd2008

More details from the link:

• Between fiscal years 2015 and 2021, the Secretary shall allocate a seventh to the total number of those with employment based visas that have been pending on the date of enactment. Petitions for spouses and children of permanent residents who are accordedstatus under the INA are automatically converted to petitions to accord status as immediaterelatives. Between fiscal years 2015 and 2021, the Secretary shall follow a specific formulato allocate visas to those with family based petitions pending on the date of enactment andsubject to some restrictions visas should be authorized in the order petitions were filed. Infiscal year 2022, the Secretary of State shall allocate visas to half the number of those thatfiled family based petitions after the date of enactment and had not had a visa issued by October 2021. In fiscal year 2023, the visas should be allocated to the other half of those thatfiled family based petitions after the date of enactment and who had not had a visa issued byOctober 2021. Visas allocated for these family based petitions will be issued based on theorder in which petitions were filed

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I think there is a typo in the document, in bold I wrote what I think they meant to say. Basically, at least 1/7th of 120,000 visas will be vaialble for 7 years to clear the backlog. Even I can do the math = 120,000 visas. That is on top of not countig dependents, etc. If this bill passes as is, I think everyone goes to C right away.

EB2 goes from 40K to 56K, but remember that dependents are not counted. So that really is the equivalent of 120K under the current system. Plus, with the PhD exemption, a few extra numbers will be available
EB3 also goes to 56K.

Then, add the visas from 1/7th of the merit-based system. This will be 80% of at least 120K across EB2/3. = 96,000
Add 56,000+56,00+96,000 = 208K visas. That's the equivalent of about 450K under the current system!

This report says the bill has been unveiled. It still does not say introduced in Senate.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/...93F05520130416

In the AILA summary for H1B workers the following points are covered.

1. We will provide spouses of H-1B workers with work authorization if the sending country of the worker provides reciprocal treatment to spouses of U.S. workers.

2. We will establish a 60-day transition period for H-1B workers to change jobs.

Thanks!
Deb

To abcx13/Q/rupen
I agree with Q that we have to take the time to read the Bill carefully for any hidden traps/benefits and not jump to conclusion. I mentioned before that the time to analyze any impact of CIR would be after the conference report is produced in Nov/Dec timeframe (if this gets that far). We have spent the last 18 months of our lifespan ( since introduction of HR 3012) agonizing over legislation which we have limited control over. The House Bill if one is ever released is going to be more punitive than this. Also the House may agree to some form of legalization of undocumented people but at no point in the recent past have they given any indication that they are about to open the floodgates for legal immigration like the Senate Bill is about to do

Country cap elimination is possible with the House Bill but I doubt that they will agree to complete elimination of annual caps on F-2A. Please refer to my previous post. The composition of the House Judiciary Committee or the entire House has not changed that much to expect a sea change of opinion. In fact the feeling amongst most House members is that immigration levels are way too high to begin with. Chairman Goodlatte however is open to increasing the proportion of Skill-based immigration and that might be a silver lining. Rep.Labrador has already said that the AFL-CIO/Chamber of commerce deal is too pro-labor and will not pass muster in the House

Long way to go!!

I like it - I like it

Looks too perfect. I do not care about keeping or removing country caps, If the dependents s are excluded and numerical limits are increased.
Also excluding PHDS and Physicans is very good . Excluding MS is asking too much - seing too many unversities now a days. Atleast gives motivation to PHDS

Consideration for 10 years stay and shifting to Merit based system

All to my liking

When this will happen?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kd2008

More details from the link:

• On the employment green card categories, the bill exempts the following categories from theannual numerical limits on employment-based immigrants: derivative beneficiaries of employment-based immigrants; aliens of extraordinary ability in the sciences, arts, education, business or athletics; outstanding professors and researchers; multinational executives andmanagers; doctoral degree holders in STEM field; and physicians who have completed theforeign residency requirements or have received a waiver.
• The bill then allocates 40 percent of the worldwide level of employment-based visas to : 1)members of the professions holding advanced degrees or their equivalent whose services aresought in the sciences, arts, professions, or business by an employer in the United States(including certain aliens with foreign medical degrees) and 2) aliens who have earned amaster’s degree or higher in a field of science, technology, engineering or mathematics froman accredited U.S. institution of higher education and have an offer of employment in arelated field and the qualifying degree was earned in the five years immediately before the petition was filed.
• The bill increases the percentage of employment visas for skilled workers, professionals, andother professionals to 40 percent, maintains the percentage of employment visas for certainspecial immigrants to 10 percent and maintains visas for those who foster employmentcreation to 10 percent.
• The bill creates a startup visa for foreign entrepreneurs who seek to emigrate to the UnitedStates to startup their own companies.
• Merit Based Visa:
The merit based visa, created in the fifth year after enactment, awards points to individuals based on their education, employment, length of residence in the US andother considerations. Those individuals with the most points earn the visas. Those whoaccess the merit based pathway to earn their visa are expected to be talented individuals,individuals in our worker programs and individuals with family here. 120,000 visas will beavailable per year based on merit. The number would increase by 5% per year if demandexceeds supply in any year where unemployment is under 8.5%. There will be a maximumcap of 250,000 visas.
• Under one component of this merit based system the Secretary will allocate merit-basedimmigrant visas beginning on October 1, 2014 for employment-based visas that have been pending for three years, family-based petitions that were filed prior to enactment and have been pending for five years, long-term alien workers and other merit based immigrantworkers.
• Long –term alien workers and other merit based immigrant workers includes those who have been lawfully present in the United States for not less than ten years and who are notadmitted as a W visa under section 101(a)(15)(W) of the Act.
• Between fiscal years 2015 and 2021, the Secretary shall allocate a seventh of the totalnumber of those with employment based visas that have been pending on the date of enactment. Petitions for spouses and children of permanent residents who are accordedstatus under the INA are automatically converted to petitions to accord status as immediaterelatives. Between fiscal years 2015 and 2021, the Secretary shall follow a specific formulato allocate visas to those with family based petitions pending on the date of enactment andsubject to some restrictions visas should be authorized in the order petitions were filed. Infiscal year 2022, the Secretary of State shall allocate visas to half the number of those thatfiled family based petitions after the date of enactment and had not had a visa issued by October 2021. In fiscal year 2023, the visas should be allocated to the other half of those thatfiled family based petitions after the date of enactment and who had not had a visa issued byOctober 2021. Visas allocated for these family based petitions will be issued based on theorder in which petitions were filed

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KD thanks. It was a typo. I corrected it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kd2008

It is not just elimination of "country cap" for EB1, Q. It is exclusion from numerical cap altogether.

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abcx - thanks. I think that removal of depends from any numerical limit itself effectively doubles the overall quota!! Dont you think?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by abcx13

Q - I agree with kd that you should not refer to part 1 as elimination of country cap. It is elimination of quota.

Secondly, my understanding is that "new" EB2 is "old" EB2 + "old" EB3 with US STEM MS in past five years (so will benefit those where employer did not file in EB3 I think). This will increase EB2 demand since even ROW EB3 with US STEM MS can then file under EB2 and they will be current.

This is kind of a crappy bill for legals if this is all they could come up with. Really I mean? You can legalize 11m but can only increase legal GCs by some 100-140k/yr? And they probably aren't even increasing when you consider reallocation from FB...

Also, for folks agitating for recapture, while I support it as an alleviating measure, remember that it is NOT a permanent fix...

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This bill still has a long way to go but it is heartening for me to see the Dependents, EB1-A, B & C, PhDs in STEM, and Physicians being kept out of numerical limit, especially being a physician my self.

What are the sticky points here as far as legal immigration?

I think getting rid of sibling sponsorship and DV is going to give some people heartburn. I also think the mechanics around who gets exempt from quota will be scrutinized to ensure that doesn't get abused. The main aspect that will be discussed is how to prevent visa overstays and use of eVerify.

Also, I think the "smart" people will ask the fundamental question - how does this reduce today's backlog and how does it address changing market needs.

PS: I have no idea when this will be "effective from" especially if it goes to the House in late summer / Fall.

Don't think anyone has realized truly how many extra visas EB gets from this bill. Exmpting depents more than doubles the numbers right away. Total % increases to 40%. Then getting 1/7th of the merit based system (add 65K form FB-4 and 55K from DV and that's were you get the number) reserved for 7 years. Plus, those that have been pending for three years seem to get another chunck of visas, not sure how many.

Waiting for the actual text but my initial estimate is that they are essentially tripling the number of EB2/3 visas.

Assuming CIR talks gather sufficient momentum, do you think CO would move the dates forward in June/July bulletin?? (at least until a point where he feels the dates would reside without CIR (Anywhere between Dec. 2007- Oct. 2008))

I believe the senators must have looked at numbers - with the idea being to clear the backlog (in 5 years?), and then keep it steady state for later admission of now undocumented.

Still, why do the numbers for employment immigration look like "floodgate"? Take also into account that they would also be redistributing more visas from lottery and sibling category within 2 years.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ChampU

Assuming CIR talks gather sufficient momentum, do you think CO would move the dates forward in June/July bulletin?? (at least until a point where he feels the dates would reside without CIR (Anywhere between Dec. 2007- Oct. 2008))

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I think the opposite, to keep the momentum going or to induce more, CO will not move the dates forward. He will take every opportunity to not committing any further mistakes and will play it safe. He will not move the dates until September and I think he will make it current for everyone (yes, I mean everyone including EB3 India) in September.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by qesehmk

KD thanks. It was a typo. I corrected it.

abcx - thanks. I think that removal of depends from any numerical limit itself effectively doubles the overall quota!! Dont you think?

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Yes, it does increase the quota. But not eliminating per country limit even in CIR bill is kind of killing. Also, Recapture of the visas as was thought would be included is left out which is a disappointment. I agree with abcx. I do not like the bill.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by rupen86

Yes, it does increase the quota. But not eliminating per country limit even in CIR bill is kind of killing. Also, Recapture of the visas as was thought would be included is left out which is a disappointment. I agree with abcx. I do not like the bill.

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One user posted Link on I V .. in the Video Rubis says .. "we have gotten rid of per country Quota"..

http://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/rub...4/16/id/499727

Quote:

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Originally Posted by rupen86

Yes, it does increase the quota. But not eliminating per country limit even in CIR bill is kind of killing. Also, Recapture of the visas as was thought would be included is left out which is a disappointment. I agree with abcx. I do not like the bill.

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I don't dislike the bill but I don't love it either. I'm kind of lukewarm. I guess we'll see if the merit based visas + not counting dependents, EB1, STEM PhD makes EB2I current. Without the merit based visa, I doubt it will, and I don't really understand the merit based visa - does it give everyone who's been waiting longer than 3 years for an EB GC a GC right away? No quota, no cap? And it doesn't count against EB? Seems like a band aid measure and I'll personally be happy because it would make EB2-I Current which means I'd get a GC, but I don't think this bill solves the problem of backlogs once and for all, especially now that H1Bs are going up.

This is where the great confustion is.

What about PIO or OCIs from other countries. They are not even citizens of India or the other reciprocating country where they were born.
What about their H4 spouses ability to get EAD?

I suppose this will be clear in future

[QUOTE=abcx13;34486]There is EAD for H4 as long as the other country reciprocates for US immigrants.

According to I V admin about the released outline:

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This bill summary posted on lawyer's website/blog etc is an older version of the document. This has been a work-in-process document, changed many times in last 2 months.

We do have the latest version and some of the folks here have seen it. But we have to be responsible in honoring the request from the lawmakers to not make it public before the bill introduction.

Hang-in there, this will be interesting 4-5 months. And we will need all the participation to get this going.

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Hmmm... things get interesting.

Indeed there are words elsewhere that the country limit is not there. Also, visa recapture is there.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kkruna

Indeed there are words elsewhere that the country limit is not there. Also, visa recapture is there.

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If that is the case, I would love it..Although visa recapture seems more difficult to find place than per country limit.

Here is the summary from I V

1.) Recapture (from unused GC since 2001)
2.) Elimination of per-country limits
3.) Exemption for dependents
4.) Exemption for US STEM graduates
5.) Ability for H-4 to work (if your country of origin reciprocates the same)
6.) 60 days Grace period on H1

As per I V summary of draft published by others (including lawyers) is 2 months old. I V has the latest draft from lawmakers but cannot publish it as per agreement with lawmakers.

Thanks

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/0...n_3092929.html

There's a saying in Hindi "Behti Ganga me haath dhona". Suits him well right now.

Very unwise of him to form an opinion and jump to conclusions without any proof.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by rupen86

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/0...n_3092929.html

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Newbie to post, Appreciate good work done by all members to keep the forum very informative. With all the post's regarding the CIR, what happens to current EB2 without Masters? Will they be classified as new EB3?

Since drafts say

EB2/EB3 ( with Masters less than 5 years ) = 40%
EB3 = 40%
other 20 %

From Q's quote here

"
Revised Summary (for EB immigration reform in order of Importance)

From Reuters
1. Existing Backlog will be eliminated. (Doesn't say how).
2. American graduates to have a separate quota (within overall limits).
3. Enterpreneurs to get a separate quota (other than E5)
4. Fifth year onwards merit based visas (similar to canada or UK)

Another far reaching provision that is sure going to create backlog in future is that H1B cap is being raised to 110K with max cap at 180K.

From Scribd
1. Elimination of numerical cap for

Dependents
EB1-A & B & C
PHD in STEM
Doctors


2. Change in composition of visas as follows

EB1 - no quota - no limits
EB2 + EB3 w US degrees - 40%
EB3 - 40%
EB4 - 10%
EB5 - 10%
Additionally a startup visa category (may be part of EB5 - except that startup visa will be much less stringent on investment and jobs created)


3. Long term overhaul of current system

All caps will be removed effectively by moving to merit based system
Merit based cap will keep increasing to 240K max as long as US unemployment is under 8.5% (this is quite funny since it barely exceeded 8.5% even under worst conditions in 2008-2009)
Chronic backlogs will get special visas (not clear if under then current quota or not)



Again ... our understanding will evolve .... so lets keep revising ...

Also keep in mind that either reuters or scribd are not really authenticate enough to consider this as final word on this bill.

Good luck to everybody. "