S386 GOP Politics and Sen. Durbin

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Originally Posted by iatiam

I am no expert in movement prediction, but three years for EB2I to reach Jan 2011 seems like a stretch. There are about 15,000 people from May 2009 to March 2010. With a conservative 3,000 approvals per year, it will take 5 years for the inventory to clear but the filing dates may move quicker than that. Your better bet might actually be to cross-file in EB3 since it may move faster. Again, I am no expert and there is limited data especially for EB3

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Experts - Congress passing a bill to resolve the Green Card backlog is clearly a long-shot. So, can the SIIA and IV groups start advocating for a bill that would provide I-140 based EAD for the primary applicant and family members. This would help the backlogged immigration community to change employers, start business, and specifically help children from aging-out related issues.

Most of the proposed bills have failed in Congress over the last ten years, but the I-140 EAD bill may pass this time. Experts, your thoughts please.

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Originally Posted by qesehmk

This is factually wrong. He did say that he wants less immigration from "Shithole" countries and more from countries like "Norway".

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Congress passing a bill to resolve the Green Card backlog is clearly a long-shot. So, can the SIIA and IV groups start advocating for a bill that would provide I-140 based EAD for the primary applicant and family members. This would help the backlogged immigration community to change employers, start business, and specifically help children from aging-out related issues.

Most of the proposed bills have failed in Congress over the last ten years, but the I-140 EAD bill may pass this time. Experts, your thoughts please.

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Originally Posted by Politicalpawn

First time poster here. Lots of good points of views and so many questions, emotions. A few of my thoughts on this, apologize for the length.

1) Is India such a bad place? No its not. However, once you spend a decade or two in the US, especially your adult life (e.g. coming to school etc.), you get used to a few things in life. On average, quality of life is better, work is more challenging, less politics, better work life balance etc. Gets harder when you have kids who are used to this country and asking them to adjust to a new way of life is a bit unfair to them.
2) On savings, how to live, those are generally true whether you live here, or India or Canada. Don't spend more than you can manage....
3) Is US a racist place? Not on average. Yes, there is Far Right who dont want anyone colored. There is also a misconception that all H1Bs are fraud, all Indians are stealing American jobs. There are a very few cases where this is real and that has gotten a lot of media attention (Disney, Sun Edison etc.). However, 95+% of H1B workers from India deserve their job. Again, I am don't have expertise in all the industries, but from what I have seen. Some of it is borne from racism, but a lot of it is borne from fear. Fear of what will happen to me, my kids in the future. Media should have done a better job of assuaging these, US Govt should have done a better job of minimizing fraud. Both parties are to blame here.
4) Durbin - If this were a new Senator who does not understand this situation, and one needs to explain this to that person, its a different story. He has been handling immigration for decades now, and I find it hard to believe (even if I want to give him the benefit of doubt), that he doesn't know what is real vs. what is made up. His amendment was added to the bill. He had months, actually decades to bring the fixes. But, he chose to derail it in the 11th hour.
Maybe he wants to curb fraud, maybe he wants to use us as leverage for daca, maybe he feels we have a very high tolerance for pain and humiliation and doesnt care. Could be anything. Lets say he had some legitimate concern that came up, the video, the blog has left a very bad taste in my mouth - about US politics, Senators, specifically Democrats, especially when you see a super conservative Republican senator fighting for this. All the effort that Rep Lofgren put to pass the bill has become a distant memory, which is very sad. People are asking are Democrats just posturing and only care about DACA because of the vote bloc, or do they even understand our issue. Holding us hostage for DACA is no different than Trump holding DACA for Border Wall. Both are wrong, and as leaders they both need to change their behavior.
Having said that, it is sad that a lot of folks prefer Trump over Durbin, which I find laughable, but TBH Sen Durbin has not done anything to think otherwise.
5) Next steps for us (Indian Americans) - Continue advocacy, beg, cry, negotiate do whatever. But, don't fight. Even if one really feels he is a racist, dont be so stupid to shame him in public. You dont anything, literally anything by fighting with a person in power. I have seen IV shout at desis, but did not expect them to do this...Well, maybe they know its not going anywhere and there is nothing to lose.
6) Next steps for U.S. - If many Indians start to leave, America will suffer. US doesn't realize how good it has it, from attracting smart people, and some of the smartest people I have interacted with are from our own country. They would have done the stupidest thing by not passing the bill because all of these actions have a reaction. If Indians start leaving in droves (highly unlikely given our tolerance for pain :)), US will follow a similar trajectory of Europe.
7) Next steps for us (me and my family) - I have 15 years of experience, MS, Ivy league MBA. However, with a PD in 2010 and the uncertainty that looms, we are making a call to move back to India by summer. Yes, will be hard for a year or so, but as I told before, India is a great place. I mean, I grew up there and have done well. My kids are US citizens, so we may come back at a different point in life, but I don't find this worthwhile anymore.

At this point, we are "Frankly dear, I don't give a damn".

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Very well put .It pains when you hit the wall everytime after such a long wait . May this country bring prosperity to others who were lucky/close to being lucky in crossing the finish line .
I think for folks like me who have PD in 2011 , its high time that we stop chasing the mirage and look beyond GC/US . Your "I dont give a damn" attitude can help ride through the mental agony

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Originally Posted by rohanvus

Very well put .It pains when you hit the wall everytime after such a long wait . May this country bring prosperity to others who were lucky/close to being lucky in crossing the finish line .
I think for folks like me who have PD in 2011 , its high time that we stop chasing the mirage and look beyond GC/US . Your "I dont give a damn" attitude can help ride through the mental agony

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Mine is PD March 2010 and my wife has EAD and a good job. Mine is a good job but promotion/progression is becoming a problem. Bought a house 7 years ago so only 8 left to pay it off :)

I hoping with no spillover etc, I'm 3-4 years away i.e. 2022-2023. I can't even imaging 2011 and beyond PD staying here in the same situation. That makes me more pissed off at Durbin; that's exactly what he wants. The system is designed to frustrate you to leave - that's exactly the goal.

Anyway, @politicalpawn can be back on EB1-C with your experience and Ivy MBA; enjoy your time in India and hopefully you come back in a couple of years. They can't get rid of us that easily ;)

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Originally Posted by Politicalpawn

First time poster here. Lots of good points of views and so many questions, emotions. A few of my thoughts on this, apologize for the length.

1) Is India such a bad place? No its not. However, once you spend a decade or two in the US, especially your adult life (e.g. coming to school etc.), you get used to a few things in life. On average, quality of life is better, work is more challenging, less politics, better work life balance etc. Gets harder when you have kids who are used to this country and asking them to adjust to a new way of life is a bit unfair to them.
2) On savings, how to live, those are generally true whether you live here, or India or Canada. Don't spend more than you can manage....
3) Is US a racist place? Not on average. Yes, there is Far Right who dont want anyone colored. There is also a misconception that all H1Bs are fraud, all Indians are stealing American jobs. There are a very few cases where this is real and that has gotten a lot of media attention (Disney, Sun Edison etc.). However, 95+% of H1B workers from India deserve their job. Again, I am don't have expertise in all the industries, but from what I have seen. Some of it is borne from racism, but a lot of it is borne from fear. Fear of what will happen to me, my kids in the future. Media should have done a better job of assuaging these, US Govt should have done a better job of minimizing fraud. Both parties are to blame here.
4) Durbin - If this were a new Senator who does not understand this situation, and one needs to explain this to that person, its a different story. He has been handling immigration for decades now, and I find it hard to believe (even if I want to give him the benefit of doubt), that he doesn't know what is real vs. what is made up. His amendment was added to the bill. He had months, actually decades to bring the fixes. But, he chose to derail it in the 11th hour.
Maybe he wants to curb fraud, maybe he wants to use us as leverage for daca, maybe he feels we have a very high tolerance for pain and humiliation and doesnt care. Could be anything. Lets say he had some legitimate concern that came up, the video, the blog has left a very bad taste in my mouth - about US politics, Senators, specifically Democrats, especially when you see a super conservative Republican senator fighting for this. All the effort that Rep Lofgren put to pass the bill has become a distant memory, which is very sad. People are asking are Democrats just posturing and only care about DACA because of the vote bloc, or do they even understand our issue. Holding us hostage for DACA is no different than Trump holding DACA for Border Wall. Both are wrong, and as leaders they both need to change their behavior.
Having said that, it is sad that a lot of folks prefer Trump over Durbin, which I find laughable, but TBH Sen Durbin has not done anything to think otherwise.
5) Next steps for us (Indian Americans) - Continue advocacy, beg, cry, negotiate do whatever. But, don't fight. Even if one really feels he is a racist, dont be so stupid to shame him in public. You dont anything, literally anything by fighting with a person in power. I have seen IV shout at desis, but did not expect them to do this...Well, maybe they know its not going anywhere and there is nothing to lose.
6) Next steps for U.S. - If many Indians start to leave, America will suffer. US doesn't realize how good it has it, from attracting smart people, and some of the smartest people I have interacted with are from our own country. They would have done the stupidest thing by not passing the bill because all of these actions have a reaction. If Indians start leaving in droves (highly unlikely given our tolerance for pain :)), US will follow a similar trajectory of Europe.
7) Next steps for us (me and my family) - I have 15 years of experience, MS, Ivy league MBA. However, with a PD in 2010 and the uncertainty that looms, we are making a call to move back to India by summer. Yes, will be hard for a year or so, but as I told before, India is a great place. I mean, I grew up there and have done well. My kids are US citizens, so we may come back at a different point in life, but I don't find this worthwhile anymore.

At this point, we are "Frankly dear, I don't give a damn".

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I would say please post the day before you leave for India. It would encourage a lot more people to move back, stop chasing the dream and frankly clear the backlog a little

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Originally Posted by Politicalpawn

First time poster here. Lots of good points of views and so many questions, emotions. A few of my thoughts on this, apologize for the length.

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With a PD in 2010, you may want to give it one more year and then move to India potentially in 2021 rather than 2020. It's really your decision but honestly even if you move now, it may turn out great.

In 2008 somebody offered me $5M to found an e-retailer in India. I had a great plan. Flipkart and snapdeal did not exist then. I strongly believe my business model was much better than theirs. I did not take the offer and thought I could do it later. But then life happens and I never went that way.

Long story short - you seem like a wise man and I would say you would be successful as long as you are at peace with your decisions. All the best.

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So with IV coming out with all guns blazing against Durbin, what do you guys think.

My perspective is, we're screwed anyway so it's doesn't really matter. Initially I didn't agree with IV shaming Durbin openly but now I have a different thought. Just like after article 370 was removed, it forced many closet anti-India ppl to come out in open and now we know who they are. Similarly, if Durbin is able to convince other senators to put a hold on S386, at least we'll know who they are in open rather than having them back-stab us every year.

Thats means its all dead - which anyway brain was saying but heart was wishing for miracle .
Its the reality that no immigration reform can ever happen in this century ( perhaps after 2/3 generations of sacrifice maybe at some point sanity may prevail)

I dont think anyone needs to convince Mr. Durbin . You can convince one who is not aware of the situation but cant convince one who is fully aware and has a history of opposing such bills on purpose ( every time) .There is nothing more perilous than the status quo

So maybe its now out in open . Right or wrong , i dont know . Hell , yeah - free country , right ? Why cant others speak their mind based on what is meted out to them ?

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Originally Posted by rohanvus

So maybe its now out in open . Right or wrong , i dont know . Hell , yeah - free country , right ? Why cant others speak their mind based on what is meted out to them ?

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Who knows we spend another 2 years being nice to Durbin and then Sanders comes as opposer in 2021. Then Warren in 2024....and so on.

It's better to know who hates us upfront.

I request all IV supporters to please push IV agenda on IV's website.

They have been mucking around for far too long. Without us they wouldn't know head or tail of the real problems behind backlogs.

And now they are turning one person - Dick Durbin - into a lightening rod while ignoring the racist president and his ultra right wing supporters who are totally on record advocating against non-white immigrants.

So effective now, I am freezing this thread for a day. And tomorrow onwards I don't want to see an IV bot on this thread.

All informative, factual posts with analysis will be welcome. Misinformation and bigoted views are not welcome.

Fair enough, perhaps I was expecting way too much from the USCIS director.

Durbin's latest tweet promoting his bill, in which he proposes that international students with STEM degrees + a job offer should be exempt from EB visa limits, appears to sum up his stance in a nutshell. It's consistent with his comments that the current yearly EB visa limit is an arbitrary number and makes no sense. It's an interesting position, not sure how rooted in reality it is tbh.

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Originally Posted by smuggymba

Jessica Vaughn from CIS had an article where she says -

“I think it’s a bad idea to scrap the per-country caps, at least independently of a major overhaul of the entire system,” said Jessica Vaughan, director of policy studies for CIS. “It will reward this dysfunctional employment visa system, but also cut off the opportunity for green cards to people from the rest of the world, who tend to be more uniquely qualified than the folks who are waiting after having been contract H-1B workers.”

Per John Miano - "The green card backlog problem is overblown. It only affects a few countries that supply large numbers of H-1B workers."

CIS/Breitbart are immigrant haters and their so called "analysis" shows it clearly.

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Originally Posted by ziggy2k

Fair enough, perhaps I was expecting way too much from the USCIS director.

Durbin's latest tweet promoting his bill, in which he proposes that international students with STEM degrees + a job offer should be exempt from EB visa limits, appears to sum up his stance in a nutshell. It's consistent with his comments that the current yearly EB visa limit is an arbitrary number and makes no sense. It's an interesting position, not sure how rooted in reality it is tbh.

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Its perhaps his way of showing that he is not a racist and not against Indians in particular. Its like killing 2 birds with one stone. Kill S386 and come out as a propagator of legal skilled immigration

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Originally Posted by NJMavarick

Its perhaps his way of showing that he is not a racist and not against Indians in particular. Its like killing 2 birds with one stone. Kill S386 and come out as a propagator of legal skilled immigration

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I'm very new to following bills/proposals etc. but as an outsider I can't come to the conclusion that he's racist ... perhaps indifferent/uncaring at worst; looking up S.1744 it was introduced on 06/05/2019 which is quite a while ago. Anyway the discussion appears to have moved on from this subject and probably everyone's minds are made up by now.

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Originally Posted by ziggy2k

I'm very new to following bills/proposals etc. but as an outsider I can't come to the conclusion that he's racist ... perhaps indifferent/uncaring at worst; looking up S.1744 it was introduced on 06/05/2019 which is quite a while ago. Anyway the discussion appears to have moved on from this subject and probably everyone's minds are made up by now.

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OK. Maybe, calling him a racist would be premature but we all know the STEM bill is DOA in the current political climate. We will see how this ends...the latest update that I am hearing is that he is ready to work with Mike Lee after the recess.

I am not sure if you have seen the video being circulated on social media showing him mocking the plight of people waiting in the backlogs. That was in poor taste and not needed.

If we look at immigration as a zero sum game then all advocacy and litigation will turn into a failure. If EB2 fights for themselves while cursing EB1 and EB3 or if Indians fight ROW ... this is not going to gain anything for current backlogged folks. The stars are perfectly aligned against current backlogged candidates.

The only way coming out of this is by fighting for justice for all or at least many. So that's where Durbin is coming from.

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Originally Posted by qesehmk

If we look at immigration as a zero sum game then all advocacy and litigation will turn into a failure. If EB2 fights for themselves while cursing EB1 and EB3 or if Indians fight ROW ... this is not going to gain anything for current backlogged folks. The stars are perfectly aligned against current backlogged candidates.

The only way coming out of this is by fighting for justice for all or at least many. So that's where Durbin is coming from.

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I am surprised that the bill even made this far. It has been long known that Democrats want CIR where they can combine backlogged folks with DACA, etc. And nothing has changed on the ground. May be Sen. Durbin is doing what most Democrats want but won't say it.

On an another note, I credit IV for coming this far. However they aimed for the moon - I wish someone could tell them it wasn't going to work at all. Even outside of Senate, the appearance that all countries would be impacted would have given this so much bad press.

It would have been better if they had asked for an increase in country quotas - say 25-35%. (Right now we are not getting any spillovers so even 20% visas going to India is turning out to be myth). That would have alleviated the problem for 2009-2014 filers, and would have kicked the can down the road to solve this in combination with CIR or some form of Merit Immigration in a few years.

You shouldn't be surprised because the fundamental argument is very solid on Moral ground. viz. Indians or anybody shouldn't suffer excessive delay because where they were born. As I always keep saying - by and large Americans - ARE - fair people. You just need to keep telling them how unfair the system has been to you and things will improve. There is no magic bullet. One person at a time. One senator at a time.

Instead of turning Durbin into a lightening rod, send durbin's office roses and tell him how bad Indians have it. I guarantee you the guy next time will be more sympathetic.

Political partywise at the end of the day it all boils down to this:
1) Democrats want more immigration.
2) Republican extreme right wing ideally wants no immigration ... and they can live with white immigration. Today GOP is hostage to the extreme right. So go figure.

But do not EVER confuse Amercan people for either of these parties. As I said, American by and large are still a nation of immigrants. A third of the nation has at least one family member born outside US. So take this defeat as glass half full. Keep working on it and it will happen.

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Originally Posted by excalibur123

I am surprised that the bill even made this far. It has been long known that Democrats want CIR where they can combine backlogged folks with DACA, etc. And nothing has changed on the ground. May be Sen. Durbin is doing what most Democrats want but won't say it.

On an another note, I credit IV for coming this far. However they aimed for the moon - I wish someone could tell them it wasn't going to work at all. Even outside of Senate, the appearance that all countries would be impacted would have given this so much bad press.

It would have been better if they had asked for an increase in country quotas - say 25-35%. (Right now we are not getting any spillovers so even 20% visas going to India is turning out to be myth). That would have alleviated the problem for 2009-2014 filers, and would have kicked the can down the road to solve this in combination with CIR or some form of Merit Immigration in a few years.

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There you go - you said it.

One it is a moral argument and not necessarily a practical one. The argument from other side is also very forceful - the need for diversity of talent pool and also that a number of categories have no access to H1 visa and therefore getting GC is their only way to get work.

Second you mentioned excessive wait time. This is where the crux of issue is. All families need to plan their future and therefore the measure should be time spent in the system. Just as in UK where the PR is given after about 7 to 8 years wait. If the bill had gone for max wait time instead of hitting the diversity principle it would have been more palatable. Something like max 5 yrs wait for eb1, 8 yrs for eb2 and 10 yrs for eb3. It is not equal to other countries but nearly all Indians would take this - it brings a certainty to the process, and eliminates stress, predictions and other psychological issues resulting from the backlog.

Maybe it is still time for IV to pivot to this. They probably would have a stronger moral foundation and better negotiation with this proposal having the previous one rejected. What do you think?

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Originally Posted by excalibur123

There you go - you said it.

One it is a moral argument and not necessarily a practical one. The argument from other side is also very forceful - the need for diversity of talent pool and also that a number of categories have no access to H1 visa and therefore getting GC is their only way to get work.

Second you mentioned excessive wait time. This is where the crux of issue is. All families need to plan their future and therefore the measure should be time spent in the system. Just as in UK where the PR is given after about 7 to 8 years wait. If the bill had gone for max wait time instead of hitting the diversity principle it would have been more palatable. Something like max 5 yrs wait for eb1, 8 yrs for eb2 and 10 yrs for eb3. It is not equal to other countries but nearly all Indians would take this - it brings a certainty to the process, and eliminates stress, predictions and other psychological issues resulting from the backlog.

Maybe it is still time for IV to pivot to this. They probably would have a stronger moral foundation and better negotiation with this proposal having the previous one rejected. What do you think?

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To summarize my advice would be:
1) Make the core argument about justice and fairness while not forgetting that current policy is economic and geopolitical. So be prepared to address those opposing concerns.
2) Win one senator at a time. Understand their opposition and use it to build your argument better.
3) Use a triad of advocacy + litigation + public perception.

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Originally Posted by excalibur123

I am surprised that the bill even made this far. It has been long known that Democrats want CIR where they can combine backlogged folks with DACA, etc. And nothing has changed on the ground. May be Sen. Durbin is doing what most Democrats want but won't say it.

On an another note, I credit IV for coming this far. However they aimed for the moon - I wish someone could tell them it wasn't going to work at all. Even outside of Senate, the appearance that all countries would be impacted would have given this so much bad press.

It would have been better if they had asked for an increase in country quotas - say 25-35%. (Right now we are not getting any spillovers so even 20% visas going to India is turning out to be myth). That would have alleviated the problem for 2009-2014 filers, and would have kicked the can down the road to solve this in combination with CIR or some form of Merit Immigration in a few years.

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I'd call CIR aiming for the moon. Even if CIR passes it's unknown how long it would take for USCIS to implement it. Since the timeline is uncertain there is a strong case for some sort of interim relief either now or in the near future.

In my opinion the bill in it's current form is simple and easy to understand. Arguing for increasing country quotas at the outset would come across as legitimizing the country quotas in some way and would confuse the message.

Perhaps the transition periods could have been widened to cope with the practical realities on the ground. To me, it makes sense to start from a position and negotiate/compromise as needed.

anyone following S386 today? IV has a lot of folks lined up to see the senate session.

>anyone following S386 today? IV has a lot of folks lined up to see the senate session.

Yeah. It is basically a show of resolve.

IMHO, the doctors of Illinois are the only people that can turn this around. If I remember right, a doctor from Iowa was the one that got Grassley to reverse his hold in 2012.

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Originally Posted by rocketfast

>anyone following S386 today? IV has a lot of folks lined up to see the senate session.

Yeah. It is basically a show of resolve.

IMHO, the doctors of Illinois are the only people that can turn this around. If I remember right, a doctor from Iowa was the one that got Grassley to reverse his hold in 2012.

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IMHO, Durbin has got a different agenda! He seems to be aware of the plight but refused to budge..that says a lot