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I am pretty sure this Cop will be re-hired within 6-12 months. Don't believe? check out links.Quote:
Originally Posted by gten20
http://boingboing.net/2014/08/03/fir...reinstate.html
http://boingboing.net/2012/05/24/pol...for-drivi.html
http://boingboing.net/2014/01/30/oma...beating-s.html
You should really read the US history. Right from the days of slavery up until the civil rights. And I mean "real history", not the rosy nonsense taught in the schools. It is available.Quote:
Originally Posted by pdfeb09
I am not commenting on the other obviously cherry picked names and inaccurate conclusions. (Edit. One such conclusion is "acknowledgment". This is absolutely grossly inaccurate - rest in peace Mike Brown, Tamir Rice and Eric Garner. Thank you the video camera and the fortuitous accident that the patrol car happened to shoot it and the police could hide it no longer).
I just want to say that I love the US for many things, but no love is unconditional.
Good discussion guys - pdfeb and sports.
In closing - I will say - I am generally an extremely opinionated guy. But some of these topics beat me. I keep thinking.
Western world as pdfeb correctly observed has learnt from its history and is improving. However - I wonder if the apparent peace and harmony is slave to material well being. In other words - take away the material comforts - and there could be an explosion of unrest. Rest of the world is not as much rich and yet the crime rate is much less and the nature of crimes is rarely as heinous. What does that say about western society?
I think India too is progressing and I believe India will progress faster on social equality and justice than western society ever will. Western society sees these things as instruments to achieve stability. India sees it as an ideal. India is barely a 60-70 year old democracy (although it is a 5000 year old civilization). Regardless of your political view point - I think - most people will agree that for Modi and Kejariwal both people voted for progress rather than along the lines of caste religion or region. That is a good sign for social justice and economic progress. In modern economies those two things go hand in hand.
That brings us back to mother USA. Isn't its own economic progress an indication of social justice and vice versa? I do think the answer is yes. However, how many people view social justice as economic necessity vs a human ideal vs a necessary evil ..... I do not know.
My last on this topic!
Ahhh.... http://www.indiawest.com/news/global...39f000c66.html
Its just somebody with a spray can of paint. We shouldn't read too much into it.
Q, there is tremendous anecdotal evidence that an average American person falls apart without material comforts.Quote:
Originally Posted by qesehmk
I disagree about economic progress and social justice going hand in hand. In the 1950s, the US was "comparatively" FAR FAR richer. It had world's 6% population and some 40% wealth. It was the sole producer of goods and it fed half the world from the leftover grains that its pigs did not consume. And yet in the 1950s, a big section of the population did not have basic civil rights. To give you an idea of how the income was rising in the 1950s, I read a statistic that says that if the rate of income increase from the 1950s had sustained, today the "average US personal income" would be $194000 (I remember this number because it's kind of odd and so incredible). I tried finding its source but couldn't. But I don't doubt its validity.
I know Indian people who came here in the late 60s, and I have heard from them how they felt - the difference between India and the US was too huge then. The US was just too rich and powerful. Today, an average American is comparatively poorer and the US influence in the world is much lesser.
Something radically changed in the 1960s. Civil rights came about. The immigration act of 1965 was passed - all of us are here in this country because of that one singular act. The world is today what it is because of it. I wish I was in the US then, because given its history, there is just no way I can explain why these events took place in the US (I think it was the aliens). But they did, and they set in motion "multicultarization of the US", which is irreversible and is forcing the US to get along with the world rather than impose its manifest destiny on us. I would say the US is forced to progress.
I guess we did discuss some things here. Anyway, I will also close my thoughts, and wish Sureshbhai Patel a speedy recovery. I just read that the thug cop plead not guilty, and I have no doubt he will be reinstated at some point. I will keep following that news.
sport - I love discussion and you raise very good points. But lets take this offline on email. Mine is - my handle AT Gmail dot com. Let me know yours and we can continue to discuss.
p.s. - I will make three quick points though.
A) You are probably missing the after effect of two world wars and destruction of all major powers except US.
B) Multi-culturization of US is not just white vs non-whites. European countries have their own distinct cultures that they brought to US. So Irish Italians Germans Swedes and so on each one has something different.
C) Even without Civil rights - US had already developed great character. It started right with their belief that "all men are created equal". Then we see something beautiful (and a lot ugly too) happening as they conquered the west. There is a reason West in the US is so pro-immigration. Highly recommend watching Ken Burn's National Parks series. And of course FDR's new deal was a great precursor to civil rights. Even today we see expression of that liberal thought at the highest levels in people like Buffett Gates and Bloomberg and in numerous organizations big and small all across US.
See ... these are all reasons .... my mind is f....'d up. I keep wondering and wondering and wondering ...
Quote:
Originally Posted by sportsfan33
Another tragic killing of an Indian student ...
http://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/201...her-apartment/
Another overzealous cop on a power trip in NY.
http://www.nbcnewyork.com/video/#!/news/local/"How-Long-Have-You-Been-in-This-Country?"-NYPD-Investigating-Video-of-Cop's-Degrading-Tirade-Against-Uber-Driver/298200411
Q,
When we guys find fault with some of the errant elements in american system, why are you guys so silent about the non-sense that is happening in our country the beef ban and other non-sense ?
I am not supporting the actions of cops in this incident or that in Louisiana. They should be brought to justice. The issue here is errant elements in the police force that is acting against the intend and spirit of laws. Laws itself are not at fault, these officers are.
However in our country, laws are made to impose the beliefs of religious majority over minority. I don't see many hindus reacting against it here or in India. It is kind of hypocritical.
Sorry to touch this subject, but couldn't help it.
Totally w u gcq on this.Quote:
Originally Posted by gcq
I really felt sad when on march 21st indian courts found 16 jawans not guilty for killings of 40 innocent muslim youth during 1987 meerut (hashimpura) nagar riots.
The only thing I would add is indian system is fd up with all of us against all of us. So minorities are not always treated well . But then we dont treat majority well either.
The solution is to remove the minority/majority thing from rule making process. Unfortunately our people are easily swayed by fundamentalist religious parties. I am from Kerala and I am a Christian. I am proud we keralites followed our tradition of not letting BJP in our state. We knew what they really were despite all the "Modi Wave". Raping nuns and attacking churches have become fashion now a days. We as a minority are not speaking publicly against it because it can fan religious passion and will play into the hands of communal parties like BJP. It is for you educated level thinking hindus to speak up against it. Unfortunately, in billion strong India, I don't see many hindus speaking up against it. I lived in Maharshtra/bombay for couple of years. I was there during the mumbai religious riots. I remember some of my hindu colleagues rejoicing when mosques were burnt and muslims were attacked//killed. Even after so many years, our country hasn't improved a bit. Now we have a religious fundamentalist Pakistan and hindu version, which is India.Quote:
Originally Posted by qesehmk
gcq,Quote:
Originally Posted by gcq
I am a hindu by birth and an Indian by culture. What I mean is, I have dear friends that believe in religions other than Hinduism and I am perfectly fine with that. I actually like quite a few things that are not inherently hindu. I am a BJP supporter. Have always been. Not because of their religious inclination, but because I do believe that they will take India forward with appropriate decisions (read development --- dare I say, for all).
I am acutely aware of the party's religious prejudice, however, I believe that that is to garner support from the masses who would rue the loss of handouts and do not understand (or immediately benefit from) long term development (Wow .. I sound so much like the right wing conservatives here ....dammit .. I guess I am as ignorant, judgmental and brain-washed) .. religion would bind them as seen by the theatrics of Ratha yatra and Babri masjid demolition.. I hope the party moves away from this ...
I do not support what is going on in India since BJP came to power in terms of the religious elements brandishing their influence or power (Beef ban is one such measure).
I absolutely abhor and condemn in the strongest possible terms the atrocities carried out(by whoever they were carried out). Rape is reprehensible regardless of the religion or the status/position of the victim and/or the perpetrator.
I hope the administrations at the local, state and center take the strongest possible actions for these crimes, regardless of the religion of the perps. I am actually afraid of the goon mentality as much as you are no matter what religion the goons belong to.
I also think that there are many in India who believe and think the way I do. The silent majority actually does not condone any of these offenses and are pro-development rather than pro-religion.
Why do you think BJP thumped Shiv Sena in Maharashtra during elections? Why do you think MNS was pretty much demolished in the elections. Shiv Sena and MNS have no development agenda. The only thing they try to coalesce people on is religion and sectarianism(Marathi Manoos funda).
Keep the faith gcq and believe in people. Who knows, there could be elements from the defeated parties trying to instigate riots and blame it on the ruling govt. because perceptions matter.
I may sound like a brain-washed BJP bhakt, as some are. I am with them because I think there will be development and better governance under that party. I don't think they are saints, though. I definitely agree that the top echelons need to send a strong message against religious intolerance, because that is not what is needed in India.
By the way .. Are you serious about the India Pak comparison? I hope and assume you were just venting ..
My last.
That's a very good explanation. I agree with you.Quote:
Originally Posted by pdfeb09
pdfeb09,
Appreciate your comments and views. That is the way it should be. I know there are many hindus that follow your thought process. In fact I have met some from Gujarat itself during my last trip to India. As for economic policies, i favour BJPs right leaning policies over congress's socialist leaning policies. Though I am from Kerala I hate socialism/communism from my heart. I traditionally vote congress, but found congress's many recent handouts old fashioned and destructive for our economic future. However should we support BJP for its economic policy ignoring its religious fanaticism ? No. Upholding human values and equality is much more valuable than economic prosperity. For example look across our borders to China. They are economically prosperous, but do they have any freedom ? Govt decides how many children they can have ! What is the point in having such a prosperity ? When people are so illiterate and backward to attack churches and mosques, rape and kill people in the name of religion, what is the point in having economic prosperity. Comparing Pakistan to India ? It is totally fair. The only reason India is not going the way of Saudi or some muslim countries is because we have a proper democracy. If RSS umbrealla organisations had their way, we would be one of the worst nations.
It is up to you majority guys to raise voice against this nonsense. Entire world is watching. All the respect and dignity India had is nose-diving because of this BJP rule. Today I am ashamed to consider myself an Indian not only because of the atrocities committed against my community, also because India is being viewed as an uncivilized nation.
Are you from Maharashtra? If you are then I would say you told only half truth. The reason BJP won was because 40% candidates were imported from other parties. So basically its Bhartiya Rashtrwadi party in Maharashtra. Every one knows that. Elections are won and lost - it's part of system. Do not count anyone out yet including MNS. And BTW if you get time do watch 'development blueprint' MNS created. Atleast they tried.Quote:
Originally Posted by pdfeb09
gcq - BJP eventually will be no better or worse than congress. Congress had its idealistic past and BJP too soon will reminisce its past glory. Power will corrupt everyone.Quote:
Originally Posted by gcq
But for now - I am frankly happy that we have changed the political diapers!!!
My own perspective is that we are in the process of ruling ourselves and becoming a modern nation. There are many fractures and divisions. It is the job of the rulers to lead the society in harmony and unity. In India the British destroyed our ruling class and handed India to the bureaucrats. These bureaucrats who never had the experience of running a country - engaged in corruption rather than uplifting the country, increase unity, and improving our might. India today needs 1000s of leaders who can join politics and cleanse the political system on their own without any banner.
We should stand for justice and freedom for ALL of Indians regardless their caste / religion or region or even political affiliation! Indian justice system is a big joke. I find it frustrating that no political party talks about the need to reform the justice system. Many time the crimes are local.
Christianity as well as Islam in India have a long history. India is the mother of civilization where a lot of different ethnic groups came settled and thrived. Arabs - Jews - Parsis - Mughals - Mongols - Shak & Huns (Rajaputs are Shak!) and so on....
So India is tremendously powerful as a civlization and society because we already carry multiple perspectives and have respected others right to live and prosper!!
Our justice system is a reflection on our social hierarchial legacy as well as the british bureaucratic legacy. But I am still fascinated and extremely hopeful about India. I will be honest -- after all these years I am seriously pondering if I should go back!
Rajnath Singh to BSF: Halt cattle smuggling, starve Bangladesh of beef
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/Rajnath-Singh-to-BSF-Halt-cattle-smuggling-starve-Bangladesh-of-beef/articleshow/46778048.cms
India's home minister worried about Bangladeshis eating beef.
These things are distractions. There are bigger issues to focus on.Quote:
Originally Posted by gcq
I guess nobody gave him his job description when he was sworn in :cool:Quote:
Originally Posted by qesehmk
LoL!!! May be somebody did and that's what he is doing!!Quote:
Originally Posted by gcq
I am being really cynical here now.
I feel like crying ... :) .... This is a classic case of misinterpreting the mandate given by the populace .. anyways .. smuggling anything is bad .. but priorities are currently misplaced .. me thinks.Quote:
Originally Posted by gcq
http://www.theindianpanorama.com/us/...u-s-introduced
Some hope for Pakistani and Indian doctors waiting for Visas.
Indian Visa Camp at Phoenix Arizona on May 3rd.
Sunday May 3, 2015, 9:00 AM to 2:00 PM
@ Ekta Mandir Assembly Hall
2804 W. Maryland Ave., Phoenix, AZ 85017
Organized by Indo-American Foundation &
India Association of Phoenix
See below for Detailed Instructions
- Go to CKGS Website and Make an Appointment to submit Visa Application for Indian Visa Camp-Phoenix
- Please Bring Appointment Letter with you
- Applicants with appointments will be issued a token number on entrance. Only applications with tokens & appointment will be processed.
- Up to 400 Appointments Available
- Applications will be accepted for Indian Visa/OCI Card/Renunciation Certificate
- Applications will have to be personally submitted by the applicants. One applicant can submit the applications for all members of the family
- Applications will NOT be accepted from Travel Agents, or from a non-family member of the applicants or from Non-US nationals and those from countries having dual nationality agreements with the United States or. Such applicants may apply directly at/mail applications to CKGS in San Francisco
- Prepare Visa/OCI/Renunciation application as you would normally do to send it to Cox and Kings Global Services, San Francisco. Bring completed applications, along with required documents, to the Visa Camp and give to Cox and Kings Global Services
- All fees will be accepted through Cashier Check, Money Order or through Credit or Debit Cards ONLY. No Cash or Personal Checks will be accepted.
- Submitting your Visa / OCI application in person at the Visa Camp costs the same as submitting your Visa / OCI application by post.
Below is the break-down of fees:
Consular Fees
Per Visa/OCI/Renunciation Fee Schedule
CKGS Service Fee - $17
Courier Fee to Send to San Francisco - $15
Courier Fee to Return the Passport - $15
For Further Information Contact:
Swati Pandey, swati7300@hotmail.com,
cell # 480 628 4983
Manish Gupta, shabloo@hotmail.com,
cell # 602 688-7011
Minaxi Patel, minadzina@yahoo.com,
cell# 928 925 5062
Satheesh Ambadi, ambadi@cox.net,
cell # 480 703 2000
Cox & Kings Global Services
As many of you know, Nepal was devastated by an earth quake a few days back which has left thousands dead and many more injured and homeless. Nepal is a developing country with a very small economy. It needs all the help to recover from this disaster. I urge everyone to reach out and donate to all charities working in the region to provide relief. Here is a list of vetted charities,
http://www.pri.org/stories/2015-04-2...ing-earthquake
Every dollar helps. So please help as much as you can.
Iatiam
Quote:
Originally Posted by iatiam
Thanks Iatiam. Here is one more name - a charity run by Desi folks that we (qesehmk.org) have donated in the past.
The charity is IDRF (India Development and Relief Fund). They are also collecting donations to help Nepal earth quake relief.
https://donatenow.networkforgood.org...teDonateOnline
CONTACTS
301-704-0032
vinod@idrf.org
www.idrf.org