Stop EB1 Fraud

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Originally Posted by vyruss

Once again, we need to know what the motivation for Kazarian was and what initiated its drafting.

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That's easy.

USCIS were forced to act by the judgement issued in this United States Court of Appeals, Ninth Circuit case
Poghos KAZARIAN, Plaintiff-Appellant, versus US CITIZENSHIP AND IMMIGRATION SERVICES, a Bureau of the Department of Homeland Security, Appellees.

Kazarian actually lost the appeal. Although the judges ruled that USCIS had erred in how they interpreted the law, it was ruled "harmless", since Kazarian could still not have satisfied three criteria as required for EB1A.

The fall out from the case was the need to develop a two-stage adjudication process. In theory, it should have made it slightly easier for EB1A/B applicants, since the actual evidence for the criteria became less rigorous. In fact, because it has made the decision more subjective, it has had the opposite effect.

Here are AILA's comments when the new rules were put forward for comment. It discusses legitimate concerns that USCIS had overreacted to the Kazarian decision.

There was never any accusation of abuse in EB1A or EB1B, either before or after Kazarian.

It is a complete red herring wrt to the title of this thread.

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Originally Posted by vyruss

Q: Change to the 7% limit you mention would require a legislative change. May be as humans we look at any low hanging fruits first. Like you said, the EB1C usage may not account for much; but once you start adding the dependents it does amount to a lot. To change or address the 7% country cap, we need to know what category of discrimination it falls under. Can we argue "disparate impact" during recruitment in general? I am not even sure if the anti-discrimination laws apply to immigrants as well. Obviously there were efforts in this direction in the past but without much success.

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Anti-discrimination laws apply to everybody in US regardless of your citizenship. It won't be easy to fight but will be worth it.

I have heard of cases ( from my brother in law )where the so called Eb1c managers do technical work at the client site ( more like Test lead etc., ). I am not in IT so I am not sure how true that is.

Also, once people get GC in EB1C category, are there any restrictions on whether they should be in managerial role etc., A friend of mine got his GC in EB1C and later took a job as Systems Analyst. I guess for EB2-NIW cases, there is a restriction that you should work in the same national interest field even after you get your GC or something like that. Correct me if I am wrong.

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Originally Posted by sportsfan33

Edit 2: Abuse is a wrong word to describe Kazarian or even EB1C. .....It was a corrective action to shift the bias higher to select the best possible candidates. Such a corrective action hasn't occurred in EB1C and my argument is that "it should happen".

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Not calling it abusive is sugarcoating the reality. Well, we each have our own lens to view what happens around us. Regardless, I do like what Sport had to say about the need for a corrective action in EB1C.

The current cycle of posts on EB immigration forums:
October-November: Dying flame of hope about further movement; Retrogression worries
November - December: May be they will make a change; Retrogression sinks in
December- June: Gripe about porters and EB1C
June-September: Movement by two to six months and "all is well "

You either seek a short term fix in the form of a corrective action in EB1C or go for something that has long term impacts (the 7% quota for instance). A pressure group was mentioned earlier by Q. There was that other forum that took the lobbying route but did not go too far. "Fwd.us" is all about CIR is what it looks like. Forming a separate pressure group just to look at the discrimination factor will be a wash when you pit it against the CIR behemoth. Divisive small scale action will be fruitless when pursuing immigration changes. This forum has a bunch of people who are very knowledgeable in EB immigrant issues. What in your opinion is the best way forward:

1. Sit tight and ignore what is happening around you
2. Brainstorm the quota issue and come up with a presentable memo that can be circulated among people who can at least voice our opinion at a higher level
3. The EB1C issue: Can we at least get some data on what kind of salary is being offered to these people and draw a comparison to an average EB2. How do we get that data? As a follow up how do we highlight the case if EB1C is indeed an "abuse" and needs a corrective action.

Story on L-1s being denied. Is this true? This may affect EB1-C consumption.
http://qz.com/229655/the-us-is-putti...order-the-l-1/

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Originally Posted by imdeng

Any takers for crackdown on EB1C misuse :-)

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Not sure if that's why the EB1 PERM is slowing down but if it is happening, than I would say Amen!!!! :):)

EB1 PERM?? What does that mean?

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Originally Posted by Jonty Rhodes

Not sure if that's why the EB1 PERM is slowing down but if it is happening, than I would say Amen!!!! :):)

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:-)

You won't believe how seriously people in India take this title of "Manager". Even in USA, I have seen Indians getting this title and then OMG - they are suddenly on different planet!

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Originally Posted by sportsfan33

I am not sure about what crackdown we are talking about. It doesn't seem that way judging trackitt threads. Is there an internal memo in the USCIS on the lines of Kazarian that gives adjudicators tools to reject EB1C applications? Unless such memos go out, EB1C numbers will not go down. They can only temporarily be prevented by issuing RFEs but it cannot go longer.

To put it in perspective, EB1A/B applications can be rejected because the "totality of the application does not prove the merit required for EB1 even though individual criteria are satisfied'. Trackitt threads have many posts of such EB1 rejections. There is no such totality requirement for EB1c. As long as you were some xYZ manager in India, you can get in EB1C. In India, EVERYONE is a manager. Potentially, anyone who can get an L1A visa is going to put in an EB1C application sooner or later. put these facts together and think what kind of demand we are talking about here and how that impacts the prospects of Eb2I folks.

Sorry for the rant. Feel free to move the post to the appropriate thread.

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Originally Posted by sportsfan33

I am not sure about what crackdown we are talking about. It doesn't seem that way judging trackitt threads. Is there an internal memo in the USCIS on the lines of Kazarian that gives adjudicators tools to reject EB1C applications? Unless such memos go out, EB1C numbers will not go down. They can only temporarily be prevented by issuing RFEs but it cannot go longer.

To put it in perspective, EB1A/B applications can be rejected because the "totality of the application does not prove the merit required for EB1 even though individual criteria are satisfied'. Trackitt threads have many posts of such EB1 rejections. There is no such totality requirement for EB1c. As long as you were some xYZ manager in India, you can get in EB1C. In India, EVERYONE is a manager. Potentially, anyone who can get an L1A visa is going to put in an EB1C application sooner or later. put these facts together and think what kind of demand we are talking about here and how that impacts the prospects of Eb2I folks.

Sorry for the rant. Feel free to move the post to the appropriate thread.

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I'm not EB1C. But, would you reject had you been given such chance(EB1C)? No, you wouldn't. You'll be first person in the queue. The problem is not with Indian companies. Indian companies were not known to do GCs back in 2000s. They started taking this route after 80% or so L1 rejection rates at consulates. Earlier they simply put the people back at offshore once their visa term was over. And, brought new set of people to onsite. Since that wasn't possible they want to keep the people who are already here. If given such opportunity I would have jumped in EB1C bandwagon in the blink of an eye.

Don't blame others if you're unable to get GC sooner in EB2 quota.

It is not about me or you accepting or rejecting an offer. I don't think people when come here know about these categories at all. They come here on difference visas like L1, H1b etc. Once you go through this long phase of immigration, you become almost an immigration lawyer and then you start talking about different categories and how they are abused. My point is: Companies and their lawyers do this not people like you or me. I don't think you can demand and hey apply my GC in this category or that category.

I have three friends who came here on L1s. Same experience as mine but got their GCs 5 years ago ( I am on H1b and current next month!). They were not aware of these categories when their GCs were applied. They just got it in less than 2 years and but now they know about this backlog and other stuff.

Also, you don't have to be a manager back in India. They get you here on L1 and then continue that "manager" BS to apply your GC.

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Originally Posted by jimmys

I'm not EB1C. But, would you reject had you been given such chance(EB1C)? No, you wouldn't. You'll be first person in the queue. The problem is not with Indian companies. Indian companies were not known to do GCs back in 2000s. They started taking this route after 80% or so L1 rejection rates at consulates. Earlier they simply put the people back at offshore once their visa term was over. And, brought new set of people to onsite. Since that wasn't possible they want to keep the people who are already here. If given such opportunity I would have jumped in EB1C bandwagon in the blink of an eye.

Don't blame others if you're unable to get GC sooner in EB2 quota.

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Originally Posted by qbloguser

It is not about me or you accepting or rejecting an offer. I don't think people when come here know about these categories at all. They come here on difference visas like L1, H1b etc. Once you go through this long phase of immigration, you become almost an immigration lawyer and then you start talking about different categories and how they are abused. My point is: Companies and their lawyers do this not people like you or me. I don't think you can demand and hey apply my GC in this category or that category.

I have three friends who came here on L1s. Same experience as mine but got their GCs 5 years ago ( I am on H1b and current next month!). They were not aware of these categories when their GCs were applied. They just got it in less than 2 years and but now they know about this backlog and other stuff.

Also, you don't have to be a manager back in India. They get you here on L1 and then continue that "manager" BS to apply your GC.

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In my previous company, who did my H1B and filed for GC (I am now on EAD and moved on to a better opportunity) I know of atleast 4 cases where people came here on H1B and they were made "manager" soon after to "manage" the client. After that the company produces (I am assuming fraudulent) docs to convert their visas to L1A and all of them got their GCs 2-3 yeas ago. All of them had come to US 3-4 years after me and even after 10 years being in US, I am still hoping for a GC (current in this month and hoping that someone at NSC will look at my case soon).

there is also one person who was on L1B and is waiting with me to get her GC.

I just talked to a friend of mine whose company is so willing to sponsor an EB1 GC for him but his wife and kids don't want to move to US. The guy is a Guru in IT. So he is not using those 4 visas that easily could be his.

Just a perspective here.

EB2 I demand is 50-60% of total EB2 demand based on labor. If you look at EB1 - EB1 India demand is around 25-30% of total EB1 demand.

Those who complain about "high" EB1 I demand - are you saying that Indians are somehow less qualified to be in EB1 but more qualified in EB2?

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Originally Posted by qbloguser

Also, you don't have to be a manager back in India. They get you here on L1 and then continue that "manager" BS to apply your GC.

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It would be more correct to say that you need not have been a Manager or Executive for the qualifying period abroad to qualify for an L1A visa. They could also have been working in a specialized knowledge capacity abroad and be transferred to the USA as a Manager or Executive. The requirement for L1A is only that you will be coming to work in the USA as a Manager or Executive.

For EB1C, the 1 year period abroad must have been served in a Managerial or Executive role. Someone who came to the USA as an L1A, having previously worked abroad in a specialized knowledge capacity, would not qualify for an EB1C.

Hence it is possible to qualify for L1A, but not for EB1C.

If you are saying that the role abroad is subsequently "massaged" somewhat to fit the definition of a Manager, then maybe (probably) that does happen.

In essence, that's appears no different to the inflation of minimum qualifications and experience requirements that appears to be rampant to ensure a PERM certification falls under EB2 when the I-140 is submitted. There appears to be an awful lot of tailoring minimum job requirements to the qualifications and experience the candidate possesses (which just happen to fit EB2), rather than the minimum requirements actually required to perform the job.

The brush works both ways and neither should be deemed to be acceptable. I'm reminded of splinters and 2x4s.

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Originally Posted by Spectator

If you are saying that the role abroad is subsequently "massaged" somewhat to fit the definition of a Manager, then maybe (probably) that does happen.

In essence, that's appears no different to the inflation of minimum qualifications and experience requirements that appears to be rampant to ensure a PERM certification falls under EB2 when the I-140 is submitted. There appears to be an awful lot of tailoring minimum job requirements to the qualifications and experience the candidate possesses (which just happen to fit EB2), rather than the minimum requirements actually required to perform the job.

The brush works both ways and neither should be deemed to be acceptable. I'm reminded of splinters and 2x4s.

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Amen to that, Spec. It is ironic that both my employers required PhD for their position( not IT) and they had to bring the minimum requirements down since PhD would have been considered restrictive in a PERM.

Just like supervised recruitment and audits for Eb2/EB3 PERMs, I think there should be some measure to scrutinize Eb1C to see if they are really being abused.

P.S : I dont have any issues with Eb1 GCs handed to 'real managers'. I have heard so many stories from my friends who are doing technical work just like any other Eb2/EB3 person but still get through EB1C by only modifying their title ( not what they really do ) to a manager.

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Originally Posted by sportsfan33

so in your view, one should never oppose any kind of fraud because in a parallel universe, the same person will enjoy the benefits of the said fraud. Got that. Very nice philosophy to live by.

P.S. There is a good reason 80% L1s are rejected. In my view, 100% of them from the maligned Indian IT giant body shops should be rejected.

P.S.2. As I clarified, EVERYONE is a manager in India. I wouldn't be surprised if there are managers in janitors. Thus, anyone who is lucky to get L1A is a straight EB1C approval. I have nothing against the US throwing EB based gcs like that, but if it's not consistent across all categories, sooner or later the abusers bring about their own demise. to refresh your memory, I have 2 words; "substitute labor'.

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I'm very surprised to see your comments. Do you think USCIS don't know these companies are applying for EB1C? Years after years. Why can't USCIS scrutinize these companies when they can do hapless small consultancy companies during PERM/I-140? If you think 80% of L1s rejection is justified why can't USCIS do the same for EB1C applicants? Who's stopping them? or What's stopping them? Why USCIS taking so long to ban EB1C from these companies? To refresh your memory, EB1C has been there for more than few years for USCIS to understand/find frauds.

You whine because they have the GC and you don't. I don't see any rationale in your argument.Pure grumbling. I'm asking again, would you have rejected had you been offered EB1C by your company (Making arrangement to work 1 year abroad and to come back again on L1A visa)? Would you have told them that it's abuse and you don't like to take it?

Do you know how EB5 visas are fulfilled? Do you know how corrupt Chinese money buy those visas and corrupt ex-Chinese officials use that route to escape China? You may know but you don't care about Chinese taking GCs but you can't tolerate fellow Indians getting greened before you. Long live your philosophy.

For the folks who are very concerned about EB1 C abuse, there is some good news - thanks to Chennai Embassy's rejection of L1 As and L1 Bs. from what I heard in the last few months the rejection rate for L1 applications are as high as 70 to 80 % or higher. Most folks that I know who tried got rejected (from 3 indian IT firms ) (they were told that the manager job that they were trying to perform at onsite can be done by a local guy and doesnt require previous work experience within the company that L1 portrays). if this continues, there wont be much L1 A's moving in to convert to EB1 C . there will still be Microsoft/ google / Amazon/big firms with offices in India moving their senior folks but that will be less than 1000 folks per year.

And to make things streamlined, the embassy is making all L1 cases to be heard by the couple of visa officers :), compared to H1 other visas
which are allocated one of the 8 to 10 available counters.


if IT organizations stop L1 abuse (both indian as well US based ones like IBM / Accenture are refused L1's, EB1 C abuse will mostly correct itself in a year or so

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Originally Posted by Jonty Rhodes

Yes, it seems to be true news. You won't see EB2I approvals for rest of September unless for those people for whom visa number has already been requested. When October starts, new FY will start with it and EB2I quota will open again so you can expect some lucky ones to get their green cards but then the PD will retrogress to 2005 till may be July, 2015 when it will move forward again depending on the spillover available next year.

I am not particularly concerned about the visas being unavailable till rest of the September because the FY is ending in 20 days anyways and it happened last year also. But I am more concerned about the future progress due to spillover concerns.The situation does not look very good overall especially with the announcement from Mr. CO that EB2I is likely to move forward extremely slowly in long term and applicants should prepare for longer waits. I think high use of EB1C and very high level of porting combined with high demand for EB2I itself is causing this and next year, EB2ROW demand will also pick up which can slow the progress even further.

Overall, it is not a good news and I think the new norm for EB2I is 6-8 years wait from PD with current level of visa allocation and quotas. In fact, if nothing changes then in next 3-4 years, EB3I will start receiving horizontal spillover as EB3ROW is advancing fast. If that happens, there won't be much difference left between EB2I and EB3I. Unless EB1C requirements are changed and made more stringent and EB3-EB2I porting is reduced, EB2I applicants are in for a long painful wait. The only caveat to this situation is if President issues an EO in December which includes some relief for legals or CIR passes in 2015 giving relief to legals. But I would not rely on them. The only other thing that can give EB2I more spillover is if somehow the PERM process slows down considerably and waiting times go up for every new filer to get LC approved.

My PD is in May, 2011 so I am only little more than 3 years from my filing but I am not hopeful at getting a GC before 2018. I can understand how painful it is for people who filed in 2008 and are still waiting.

As Q have said before, try to make a career move instead of waiting for GC eternally. I know that it is easier said than done but one should always try. I am really thinking of making a career move next year if there is no EO in December. I am getting tired of waiting and I don't want to sacrifice my career for green card. If needed, I will change my visa to J1 from H1B, abandon the GC process and take a J1 waiver job if I can advance in my career. Because till this point, I was letting the opportunities pass in wait for GC and I know that 4-5 years from now, I will regret it so I have decided that enough is enough and I will do something to advance my career instead of just waiting with frustration for my GC.

Not that, this may help anybody's cause and I don't want to sound preachy also, but just a friendly thought since I am also one of you.

Good luck to all waiting for GC.

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//For the folks who are very concerned about EB1 C abuse, there is some good news - thanks to Chennai Embassy's rejection of L1 As and L1 Bs. from what I heard in the last few months the rejection rate for L1 applications are as high as 70 to 80 % or higher. //


That's the very reason why EB1C usage is so high. Since there is about 80% rejection in L-1A, they apply GCs for the L-1A folks who're already here. Many years ago, all the Indian outsourcing companies call their employees back to India once their visa expire. And, send in new batch to onsite. After the high rate of rejections, they started applying GCs in EB1C for L-1As. Another reason for EB1C is, some senator proposed that foreign companies should hire 50% (or something like that) permanent residents/citizens to qualify for work visas,etc.

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Originally Posted by sportsfan33

My apologies in advance for posting a rant.

1) This is NOT an EB1 rant. But this section of the forum has a few rants, so I chose it.
2) Please do not read if you do not like reading rants. This is an upfront warning. Do not blame me or come after me with pitchforks because I have given my disclaimer and I will not indulge in any further dialogue.
3) I believe I have earned the right to post a rant. Sorry Q, I don't want to pollute your forum and as a result of this, I am simply going to stop posting after this extremely selfish act of mine.

So here it goes. I realized yesterday what a waste of time this GC thing was. I would have gone far ahead in life if I was not stuck to this God awful GC process. Yes, my classmates have gone on to become VPs, entrepreneurs and managers...and the common theme among them? They are NOT IN THE US. My brilliant classmates who are all in the US? 1, maybe 2 are living what you would call a success...for the rest, it's a nightmare of varying degree. Hey, I am one of the lucky ones. At least I have my EAD.

Then, a few weeks back, I met a dropout of my class. A very sweet guy. He looked up to me. I talked to him quit a bit. He did everything that you would qualify as fraud (came on a shady H1, massaged his resume, paid for his own H1, bartered for a substitute labor) and as a reward, he has his GC. Got it last year. He came here quite a few years after me (7 years after me in fact). While I was wasting my time in doing research, finding proper employment, getting a "proper H1 so I could travel worry free", this guy did everything the shady way, abandoned travel and stayed put even it meant staying on the bench. He told me so many things how they run payroll on the bench...it was quite innovative in some sense.

The end result? He got it. He was happy and content. I have nothing against him. But when he asked me "are you a citizen yet", I wished I could just disappear in thin air.

Yesterday I snapped. It was long coming. I can finally admit that this was a major blunder. No more sugarcoating. I can now live in peace. The US is a country of opportunists taken to the extreme. If you play by the stupid book, you do not go anywhere. So my advice: Take risks if you want to succeed in this game. This retrogression is going to be very long and the sun won't rise on 2009 for an year or 2 at least. If you have any other innovative plans such as going to India and take an EB1 gamble, now is the time.

I again apologize for my post. This is my last until I get out of the dark place. I will keep interacting with the distinguished members such as Spec, who has kept my faith alive still. God bless his/her soul.

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Sports, I hear your pain. I have seen a lot of such cases, people who came here on Desi consultant visas and bought pre-adjucated PERMS are now GC holders and citizens.

Also keep in mind that the law is a double-edged sword. A few years back when HR3012 was being introduced in Senate, Sen. Grassley put a hold on it. He wanted to push some stringent restrictions H1B rules before he would lift the hold. Now, I am in no way condoning his position here, but a lot of those guidelines were indeed necessary to prevent fraud in the system.

I hope some day the system will be fairer and squarer. There will be some areas we like and some areas we hate. I guess that's the nature of the game.

Iatiam

Unemployment is very high and economy is not good - These H1bs and other immigrants are taking jobs
No growth in wages - Oh, these illegals are drawing these wages down.
No Visas available for EB2I - Oh, EB1 fraud, let us stop this.

Same complaints, same issues, only nationalities are different! People, we are all the same. Stop pretending otherwise.

P.S.: I am NOT Eb1 - I am Eb2I.

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Originally Posted by sportsfan33

At the time, I did support Grassley's H1B amendments. I was very proud of my "risk free H1B". In 2006, a VO behind the window also talked to me for 5 mins, complimented me on my work and told me how she was irritated by very consultants who would later go on to become PRs and citizens well before I would. I felt so proud on that day!

I have stopped judging anyone now. Something snapped yesterday. I have a new perspective on things.

I don't wish to continue this conversation any more. You could argue that opportunist people who lie and cheat also create opportunities for everyone else (Thomas Alva Edison is a prime example). You could also argue that if everyone in the world did this, there would be chaos. The hard reality is that some people cheat, others don't. It comes down to what you are comfortable doing morals aside. I could not get myself to do unethical things and I am proud of that. Nothing will ever change it. What changed is that I will not be judging anyone who did it. They will live with those decisions. You cannot avoid your conscience and your soul.

I also realized that I should not have been a mindless sheep and explored better options when time was ripe. I will start implementing this from today. It's never too late.

I simply posted because I wanted to scream out loud somewhere. I did say it was a selfish act. I felt better after I did it. We do not discuss these matters at home because we have consciously chosen not to let these things affect us. They indeed don't affect my partner but they affect me greatly. This was an attempt to break free.

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Sports, I hear you. I feel the same way as you do. I am a physician. Came here on F1 in 2004. Finished my Masters in Public Health. Did my Internal Medicine (MD) residency for 3 years on H1B. After that, I was offered a 1 year Chief Residency position in my hospital. I did not take it because I wanted to start my GC journey as soon as possible. I applied for fellowship in my last year of residency but got rejected because majority of fellowship programs are only for GC holders and citizens. So I took up a job. My lawyer did not recommend EB2NIW since it was tough to prove. I applied in EB1A but Kazarian Memo was out at that time and rejection rate was very high and my application got rejected. My GC was filed in May, 2011 under EB2I.

Since that point, I had to let go several opportunities because of the visa sponsorship issue. I let some opportunities pass by myself in the beginning after joining new job because I was bound by 3 year contract and found it to be too much hassle. So now I am here after 4 years of job at one place. I kept doing things just to boost my resume. I became a Chief Physician Informaticist and taking an online certificate course but fellowship is still elusive. Now, I am at a point where job is not a problem, money is not a problem but there is no career growth. I am in a midsize town in Midwest and want to advance my career further but there are no opportunities here. Unlike others, who can try EB1C route, I can't because my hospital does not have a branch in India. In fact, for physicians EB1C is not an option at all. I can't go back to India without doing a fellowship here because I can hardly make ends meet in India with only MD in Internal Medicine. I have to be a specialist and do fellowship which are hard to come by without being a GC holder or citizen.

So you know, when you rant about it, I am feeling exactly the same as you. We have lots of engineers from India in our town which are employed by 2 companies here. Most of them have come recently in last 2 years on L1A and then went on getting GC on EB1C. I don't have anything against these people because they are simply taking advantage of the loophole in the system, but I feel disappointed. That is why, I have also decided to make a career move next year. I am going to start looking for jobs or fellowships in other places. May be I will get less money and less comfortable life but at least I will be happy. Just like you, I don't keep talking with my wife about this because she gets sad also but then it affects me greatly. So I try to avoid talking about it at home.

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Originally Posted by sportsfan33

I know about your story so well Jonty! You were cited as one of the examples for the need of HR3012 when the push to it happened. It is unfortunate that there is no escape in the law. The law is flexible enough to allow people to port, to allow insourcing of MNC managers, but why is it not flexible enough to simply "borrow" numbers from the future (if it has to be that) to meet the demand now? The hard numerical limit is insane. I understand the need to control the inflow of people, but this need is for the people who are not here yet.

The US immigration is so out of date, the people are so paranoid and xenophobic and the USCIS is so arrogant and disorganized (at least to the outsiders, that's the way it looks) that the US is simply not the place to be. Most successful people I know from my class are in Singapore already - one is an entrepreneur and one is already a VC (these guys are from the same middle class backgrounds as us). It so happens that we become the demonstration victims of this system so the future generations wise up. Oh, and I do believe that this mess will be fixed some day; it will just be a day when its utility would have been gone for us.

At any rate, there are worse things in life. Just hang in there. We are there to keep each other support and company :)

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Agree with you completely.

I honestly don't know where to post this. My PD is May 18, 2009. This year I resubmitted the medicals. Looking back it looks like I had to do this only to keep my application alive. I have bachelors from IIT, Masters from a top 10 school, fully funded with a paid research assistant position, a GRE of 2350 from the good old days. Was banking on the GC to move to a senior level for the past several years (hindsight a big mistake). Did everything right and stuck to the law. While waiting, I am getting an MBA from a top school (exec-MBA). I am about to graduate from this program and some firms have expressed interest in hiring me contingent on me having a GC by the time I join them of course. Now that dream is dead.

I think I have wasted too many opportunities just waiting on this elusive GC. I have an EAD which I have not used so far. The questions I have for gurus:

1. If I use the EAD do I have to stick to a similar job/industry? Will I lose my PD and may be the opportunity to file for H1B in the future?
2. If I switch to a different industry and let's say the new firm I join files for H1B, and a new PERM, can I port my previous date to this new PERM for a different job profile/industry?

Waited too long to realize that I have to move on to a different path. But the gut-wrenching feeling that I get every time I see the likes that Sports and others have mentioned is getting tough to overcome. Any feedback is much appreciated.

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Originally Posted by Jonty Rhodes

Sports, I hear you. I feel the same way as you do. I am a physician. Came here on F1 in 2004. Finished my Masters in Public Health. Did my Internal Medicine (MD) residency for 3 years on H1B. After that, I was offered a 1 year Chief Residency position in my hospital. I did not take it because I wanted to start my GC journey as soon as possible. I applied for fellowship in my last year of residency but got rejected because majority of fellowship programs are only for GC holders and citizens. So I took up a job. My lawyer did not recommend EB2NIW since it was tough to prove. I applied in EB1A but Kazarian Memo was out at that time and rejection rate was very high and my application got rejected. My GC was filed in May, 2011 under EB2I.

Since that point, I had to let go several opportunities because of the visa sponsorship issue. I let some opportunities pass by myself in the beginning after joining new job because I was bound by 3 year contract and found it to be too much hassle. So now I am here after 4 years of job at one place. I kept doing things just to boost my resume. I became a Chief Physician Informaticist and taking an online certificate course but fellowship is still elusive. Now, I am at a point where job is not a problem, money is not a problem but there is no career growth. I am in a midsize town in Midwest and want to advance my career further but there are no opportunities here. Unlike others, who can try EB1C route, I can't because my hospital does not have a branch in India. In fact, for physicians EB1C is not an option at all. I can't go back to India without doing a fellowship here because I can hardly make ends meet in India with only MD in Internal Medicine. I have to be a specialist and do fellowship which are hard to come by without being a GC holder or citizen.

So you know, when you rant about it, I am feeling exactly the same as you. We have lots of engineers from India in our town which are employed by 2 companies here. Most of them have come recently in last 2 years on L1A and then went on getting GC on EB1C. I don't have anything against these people because they are simply taking advantage of the loophole in the system, but I feel disappointed. That is why, I have also decided to make a career move next year. I am going to start looking for jobs or fellowships in other places. May be I will get less money and less comfortable life but at least I will be happy. Just like you, I don't keep talking with my wife about this because she gets sad also but then it affects me greatly. So I try to avoid talking about it at home.

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Jonty

I think it is worthwhile that you try and create a pressure group of physicians that can lobby to exempt doctors from country quota or at least create special quota for them.

Given how bad shortage the country has of doctors - I think you may get good traction.

With EAD - same similar is not required. But when you get GC - around that time USCIS may ask you if you have a job offer in same / similar.

You can use any prior PD (EB FB EB1 EB2 etc etc) for any future GC application.

p.s. - It is a great lesson to not hold career hostage to GC. I am sure you would do well in future. GC will come when it will.

pps - If it is any consolation - one of my close friends got 2360 on GRE and 790 (!!!) on GMAT. Worked for bell labs for a while. But he had to wait 1997-2011 to get a GC. As if this was not enough - his wife who could've gotten GC on her parents application - was aged out and thus her wait was even longer than his.

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Originally Posted by vyruss

I honestly don't know where to post this. My PD is May 18, 2009. This year I resubmitted the medicals. Looking back it looks like I had to do this only to keep my application alive. I have bachelors from IIT, Masters from a top 10 school, fully funded with a paid research assistant position, a GRE of 2350 from the good old days. Was banking on the GC to move to a senior level for the past several years (hindsight a big mistake). Did everything right and stuck to the law. While waiting, I am getting an MBA from a top school (exec-MBA). I am about to graduate from this program and some firms have expressed interest in hiring me contingent on me having a GC by the time I join them of course. Now that dream is dead.

I think I have wasted too many opportunities just waiting on this elusive GC. I have an EAD which I have not used so far. The questions I have for gurus:

1. If I use the EAD do I have to stick to a similar job/industry? Will I lose my PD and may be the opportunity to file for H1B in the future?
2. If I switch to a different industry and let's say the new firm I join files for H1B, and a new PERM, can I port my previous date to this new PERM for a different job profile/industry?

Waited too long to realize that I have to move on to a different path. But the gut-wrenching feeling that I get every time I see the likes that Sports and others have mentioned is getting tough to overcome. Any feedback is much appreciated.

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Every one wants to take the shortest and quickest route to get the GC done. You may complain loudly about EB1 abuse, but what about EB2 abuse? Most Indians in EB2 are tech workers who need no more than a bachelor's degree to do their job. The fact that many have a master's degree is not a reason in and of itself to seek EB2. The job must require an advanced degree.

Smart lawyers and HR are able to word the job requirements as to satisfy USCIS for an EB2 visa. Is that not abuse of EB2?

I am in a field where a PhD is needed to do the job and to get promoted. This qualifies well under EB2. Had I been a senior researcher and not a recent graduate, I could have sought EB1, but I can't. I am stuck in the same line as thousands of folks who do their job that need no more than a basic undergrad technology qualification.

All is fair in love, war, and it would seem also in the the GC process. There is no need to complain loudly about Eb1 "abuse" or porting from Eb3 to Eb2.