General Discussion About India

haha, I had similar education and childhood.

When I was in middle school from age 12-18, I had to study from 7am-10pm in school, Monday to Sunday noon. The only holiday for us was Sunday afternoon. It was a crazy education system, more like a military camp. The boys and girls were not allowed to have long hair and the girls were not allowed to wear skirts. I didn't have any fun in my middle school. We had to study so much because the college entrance exam was very difficult. Only 20% of my classmates could go to college. The population is huge and the number of colleges is small in China, so the competition is so high. This kind of education system kills students' creativity and the only thing we learnt from school was how to solve equations, how to do exams. It's sad, but it's still going on in China.

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Originally Posted by nishant2200

In some other forums, you would be attacked by pack of wolves on expressing your views like this. I totally see where you are coming from. I agree with you, I am glad especially about the saas-bahu part (you totally said what I think), and would put one more point which may apply to some of us, our kids have no future in terms of education, because of reservation. Study entire day and be bookworms and "ratta" (mugging up, remembering word to word textbook without thought) and get 110% points, childhood lost in endless pursuit of a dream which should be a fundamental right of any child who is averagely smart. Because of reservation policies, I feel like I am outcasted from my own country.

We will move digressing posts few time later to other thread, but I could not stop myself from expressing how I completely felt same as you.

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imdeng i always thought looking at your name that you were chinese!

i think what you say is sad truth. The problem is - you and I try to preach these things to Indians ..... they think we are not Indians anymore and have no business telling them about things in india. These saas-bahu dramas is seriously destroying India families. I have seen first hand here in America some of my friends settled here bringing their mothers from India and then subscribing to Zee and Star etc and these stupid dramas destroying the peace in the house. 10 years younger - I would have said, teh people are to blame for themselves, how can they allow themselves to be influenced. But today my views are different. I think people are a product of the environment they are subjected to.

But all said and done I also know friends who are very happy back home and have no desire to come back. so I guess it depends on what one wants in life.

Anyway enjoy Diwali!! I have missed my diwalis in India since 2000. Missed every single Ganapati since 1996. I envy you :)

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Originally Posted by imdeng

BTW - I am India right now - visiting parents for Diwali - and boy its bad in here. I get all the growth, opportunities etc. - but the quality of the day to day life pure sucks. Some observations:

1. I remember traffic as being bad - but the situation now is so awefully bad. New Delhi is bad enough - but smaller cities (I am in Ranchi right now) are even worse.
2. Thullas (cops, I feel compelled to translate everything for QBF - he is by far my favorite non-Guru poster here) are as much a menace as ever - always looking to get petty bribes.
3. Whats with all school/college age kids hanging around on streets/malls during school time??
4. Inflation OMG! Everything costs double than I remembered them from a few years back. So many things are now almost as expensive as they are in US.
5. Saas-Bahu (Monther-In-Law and Daughter-In-Law) dramas are stupid - there seems to be hundreds of them - on at all times of the day. What is even more stupid is that ALL 50+ women I know loves them - they are all in a trance watching them. All my protests about none of the women in those dramas ever studying or working, unreasonable premise of joint families with four generations living in a palace together, unbelievably sexist attitudes of everyone in there etc etc all fall on deaf ears.

I have more - but the power just went off - so got to post before my battery dies.

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Originally Posted by qblogfan

Haha, I am glad to know I am your favorite non-guru poster!

I think India and China will develop and catch up with the western countries sooner or later. It's just a matter of time. Both countries have huge populations, so it's difficult to turn around and catch up with the west. I think education is very important. In China 2/3 of the population are still in the country side and the education in the country side is pretty bad. I think India is in similar situation.

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QBF, I seriously am bought into your solution that Indians and chinese need to spread around the world. They simply don't have enough land and resources to sustain them in their respective lands.

When i first came to US in 2000....this was my thinking....Ok work hard and be done with your education and in the process if you happen to make some money then so be it.....then once education is done reevaluate where you want to be....Abroad or India.....

Am at a point now where i can be content with my education, but education is never a done deal...it can go on and on....so i will leave it at that and now the reevaluation part...what next stay put in USA or go back....

But unconsciously in the past 10 years we have globalized....to an extent we are globizens now....we may live in one place for small periods at a time but mentally we corelate with other places too. Not sure if this makes any sense to anyone of you......

So NRI's cant settle down in US completely....neither can they settle down in India completely, when you are here you want to be there and when there you want to be here syndrome. ( so goes with other countries too).

Going forward we will have "ties" to a truly 'flat world' as Nandan Nilekani calls it and be well prepared to live anywhere.
So with your kids invest in three languages, English,Spanish and Mandarin.:p



Congrats Monica and pch053 !

Well I agree..I always laugh when anyone from India would just land and say that I will go back after two years.....when they ask me why do i laugh, i simple say wait for a year and then come back and tell me if you still wanna go back....:)

Education + Job ($$$) + Marriage (Q's Laddu) + Home + Kid/s + X = QUAGMIRE

Where X = GC (Must have variable)


Isn't Thomas Friedman who wrote a book 'The World is Flat'??

Have fun.

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Originally Posted by Stemcell

When i first came to US in 2000....this was my thinking....Ok work hard and be done with your education and in the process if you happen to make some money then so be it.....then once education is done reevaluate where you want to be....Abroad or India.....

Am at a point now where i can be content with my education, but education is never a done deal...it can go on and on....so i will leave it at that and now the reevaluation part...what next stay put in USA or go back....

But unconsciously in the past 10 years we have globalized....to an extent we are globizens now....we may live in one place for small periods at a time but mentally we corelate with other places too. Not sure if this makes any sense to anyone of you......

So NRI's cant settle down in US completely....neither can they settle down in India completely, when you are here you want to be there and when there you want to be here syndrome. ( so goes with other countries too).

Going forward we will have "ties" to a truly 'flat world' as Nandan Nilekani calls it and be well prepared to live anywhere.
So with your kids invest in three languages, English,Spanish and Mandarin.:p



Congrats Monica and pch053 !

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seriously...this is an exact reflection of my thoughts. The quality of life is going down at an incredible place and i am sorry to say that my friends and relatives who have not been outside the US keep equating India to US. And i will be very very glad if we make great progress but getting a cellphone in the hand of every kid is not progress for me. I think of going back but a 3 hour one way commute from NewBombay to Andheri scares me. I love Bombay(Mumbai for those who prefer that, though a maumbaikar i prefer bombay for various reasons) but my bombay is going to the dogs.

Rant over... please delete if inappropriate.

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Originally Posted by nishant2200

In some other forums, you would be attacked by pack of wolves on expressing your views like this. I totally see where you are coming from. I agree with you, I am glad especially about the saas-bahu part (you totally said what I think), and would put one more point which may apply to some of us, our kids have no future in terms of education, because of reservation. Study entire day and be bookworms and "ratta" (mugging up, remembering word to word textbook without thought) and get 110% points, childhood lost in endless pursuit of a dream which should be a fundamental right of any child who is averagely smart. Because of reservation policies, I feel like I am outcasted from my own country.

We will move digressing posts few time later to other thread, but I could not stop myself from expressing how I completely felt same as you.

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Pdmar08

:) I would agree on many of the points. However I am more optimistic about the future. Today in the Transparency International surveys India ranks along with somalia and other countries on the issue of corruption however one strong bill like the Lokpal can set right a lot of things. In the 1970's singapore had a huge crime ridden society and an police force which was hand in glove with the criminals.Today it is squeaking clean thanks to laws that were enacted.

The wild wild west during the time of America's rise was also similar.Education and nation building changed a lot of things. India has many things going for it and change in civic sense and moral values will also happen.

In fact we have an rich heritage to derive inspiration from and atleast the next generation will be better than this one and of course we will be living in a flat world (as mentioned by stemcell ...original quote from David Friedman(nytimes) and later on Nandan Nilekani ) and exchange of ideas and cultures will take place.

Without hope there is nothing to live for . Each to his own . This is an never ending question and there is no perfect return plan that fits everybody.Somebody might be happy here after getting citizenship.Somebody might go back after working a few years after GC.Somebody might just return in 2 years of landing here.

It is not the land where one settles that matters It is just one's inner state which matters for happiness :).

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Originally Posted by Pdmar08

seriously...this is an exact reflection of my thoughts. The quality of life is going down at an incredible place and i am sorry to say that my friends and relatives who have not been outside the US keep equating India to US. And i will be very very glad if we make great progress but getting a cellphone in the hand of every kid is not progress for me. I think of going back but a 3 hour one way commute from NewBombay to Andheri scares me. I love Bombay(Mumbai for those who prefer that, though a maumbaikar i prefer bombay for various reasons) but my bombay is going to the dogs.

Rant over... please delete if inappropriate.

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I dont want to start a debate but one thing i agree to GCSeeker for sure is "In fact we have an rich heritage to derive inspiration from"...rest to each his own.

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Originally Posted by gcseeker

Pdmar08

:) I would agree on many of the points. However I am more optimistic about the future. Today in the Transparency International surveys India ranks along with somalia and other countries on the issue of corruption however one strong bill like the Lokpal can set right a lot of things. In the 1970's singapore had a huge crime ridden society and an police force which was hand in glove with the criminals.Today it is squeaking clean thanks to laws that were enacted.

The wild wild west during the time of America's rise was also similar.Education and nation building changed a lot of things. India has many things going for it and change in civic sense and moral values will also happen.

In fact we have an rich heritage to derive inspiration from and atleast the next generation will be better than this one and of course we will be living in a flat world (as mentioned by stemcell ...original quote from David Friedman(nytimes) and later on Nandan Nilekani ) and exchange of ideas and cultures will take place.

Without hope there is nothing to live for . Each to his own . This is an never ending question and there is no perfect return plan that fits everybody.Somebody might be happy here after getting citizenship.Somebody might go back after working a few years after GC.Somebody might just return in 2 years of landing here.

It is not the land where one settles that matters It is just one's inner state which matters for happiness :).

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You reminded me of the days when it used to take 1 to 1.5 hrs to come from Hiranandani complex to IIT road. ( The distance between these 2 points is hardly 1km )
and then it would take another 2 hrs to reach home.
One of the main reasons I prefer to be in US is commute time/ease and I can spend time with my kid/family.
Otherwise I still love Mumbai,wada-paw,cutting chai,Wills, Kingfisher, list goes on.
Mumbai meri jaan :))

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Originally Posted by Pdmar08

seriously...I think of going back but a 3 hour one way commute from NewBombay to Andheri scares me. I love Bombay(Mumbai for those who prefer that, though a maumbaikar i prefer bombay for various reasons) but my bombay is going to the dogs.

Rant over... please delete if inappropriate.

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Originally Posted by gcseeker

Pdmar08

:) I would agree on many of the points. However I am more optimistic about the future. Today in the Transparency International surveys India ranks along with somalia and other countries on the issue of corruption however one strong bill like the Lokpal can set right a lot of things. In the 1970's singapore had a huge crime ridden society and an police force which was hand in glove with the criminals.Today it is squeaking clean thanks to laws that were enacted.

The wild wild west during the time of America's rise was also similar.Education and nation building changed a lot of things. India has many things going for it and change in civic sense and moral values will also happen.

In fact we have an rich heritage to derive inspiration from and atleast the next generation will be better than this one and of course we will be living in a flat world (as mentioned by stemcell ...original quote from David Friedman(nytimes) and later on Nandan Nilekani ) and exchange of ideas and cultures will take place.

Without hope there is nothing to live for . Each to his own . This is an never ending question and there is no perfect return plan that fits everybody.Somebody might be happy here after getting citizenship.Somebody might go back after working a few years after GC.Somebody might just return in 2 years of landing here.

It is not the land where one settles that matters It is just one's inner state which matters for happiness :).

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Your wording is really great

In fact we have an rich heritage to derive inspiration from and atleast the next generation will be better than this one

But if you see the facts, next generation is going down without taking inspiration, the Indian Government want to control all the heritage. Yoga was abandoned for a long time, now when the west approved it everyone knows the value, same thing, there are gold mines in our Indian Heritage, Like Vedic Mathematics, Ayurveda, which treates the cause rather than the symptoms! But most of the new generation folks are behind western culture. And do you know one info. in Stanford, they are taking classes in "Kathopanishad" for one chanpter costs you $4000/- our Rishis and Baba's give it free,(I am against fake ones of course majority are nowadays!!:-)) and most of the people condemn it as hum bug. We still need the western approval for everything. Please Think. now some of the folks may jump at me for this writing, but TRUTH some times hurts. For the jumping jacks ... just wait one more decade to realise this!... probably :-)

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Originally Posted by qesehmk

On the second point - can we please add either Hindi or Sanskrit please to that list.

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Q,

As much as i am proud of my Hyderabadi Hindi, unfortunately i cant make a decent living with Hindi and Sanskrit only these days my friend kaiku boletho...
you have to be Lallo or Mayawati et all for that.:cool:

No seriously the adaptability factory is severely handicapped with these languages......

haha, yes, in the Chinese families, mother in law and daughter in law can't get along either. It's very common in China. It's in all cultures. In the Chinese traditions, young couples have to live with parents, but nowadays it's almost impossible. The young generations have a huge gap with the old generations. I agree that maybe it's a good idea to live seperately when they are in 50s and 60s, but I think young people should help parents when they become really old, like 70s and 80s. I don't like the western culture that young people send their parents into nursing units. It's our responsibility to take care of the old when they lose mobility.

I am glad to know that you like the idea that China and India should move more people out of the countries. I think both countries are over populated and have huge eco and social pressure. At the same time, Canada/Australia/USA have much more resources and the population is small. Of course, the local people want to enjoy the big pie by themselves, that's why NumberUSA was formed to fight againts us.

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Originally Posted by qesehmk

imdeng i always thought looking at your name that you were chinese!

i think what you say is sad truth. The problem is - you and I try to preach these things to Indians ..... they think we are not Indians anymore and have no business telling them about things in india. These saas-bahu dramas is seriously destroying India families. I have seen first hand here in America some of my friends settled here bringing their mothers from India and then subscribing to Zee and Star etc and these stupid dramas destroying the peace in the house. 10 years younger - I would have said, teh people are to blame for themselves, how can they allow themselves to be influenced. But today my views are different. I think people are a product of the environment they are subjected to.

But all said and done I also know friends who are very happy back home and have no desire to come back. so I guess it depends on what one wants in life.

Anyway enjoy Diwali!! I have missed my diwalis in India since 2000. Missed every single Ganapati since 1996. I envy you :)





QBF, I seriously am bought into your solution that Indians and chinese need to spread around the world. They simply don't have enough land and resources to sustain them in their respective lands.

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good to see quite a few from mumbai ...born and brought up in mumbai ...still miss it ..evertime i visit first thing i do is visit my good old tapri for some vada pav and cutting chai ..love u mumbai or bombay ..name doesn't matter to me ..

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Originally Posted by codesmith

You reminded me of the days when it used to take 1 to 1.5 hrs to come from Hiranandani complex to IIT road. ( The distance between these 2 points is hardly 1km )
and then it would take another 2 hrs to reach home.
One of the main reasons I prefer to be in US is commute time/ease and I can spend time with my kid/family.
Otherwise I still love Mumbai,wada-paw,cutting chai,Wills, Kingfisher, list goes on.
Mumbai meri jaan :))

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Stemcell

Q,

As much as i am proud of my Hyderabadi Hindi, unfortunately i cant make a decent living with Hindi and Sanskrit only these days my friend kaiku boletho...
you have to be Lallo or Mayawati et all for that.:cool:

No seriously the adaptability factory is severely handicapped with these languages......

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Man.. Sanskrit is the mother of all languages, you can use the same word for different meaning at different contexts! saying Sanskrit is non adapatable.. is beacuse of lesser information about that language. Even research is going on for computers to use Sanskrit for programming!

haha, Yoga is very popular in China. :) Every woman I know is learning Yoga. The Yoga classes in China cost thousands of dollars.

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Originally Posted by immitime

Your wording is really great

In fact we have an rich heritage to derive inspiration from and atleast the next generation will be better than this one

But if you see the facts, next generation is going down without taking inspiration, the Indian Government want to control all the heritage. Yoga was abandoned for a long time, now when the west approved it everyone knows the value, same thing, there are gold mines in our Indian Heritage, Like Vedic Mathematics, Ayurveda, which treates the cause rather than the symptoms! But most of the new generation folks are behind western culture. And do you know one info. in Stanford, they are taking classes in "Kathopanishad" for one chanpter costs you $4000/- our Rishis and Baba's give it free,(I am against fake ones of course majority are nowadays!!:-)) and most of the people condemn it as hum bug. We still need the western approval for everything. Please Think. now some of the folks may jump at me for this writing, but TRUTH some times hurts. For the jumping jacks ... just wait one more decade to realise this!... probably :-)

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Immitime

Definetly valid points and it is true validation has to come from the west to accept it scientifically. Some examples are

1.Mount Sinai Hospital (One of the most prestigious one's) now has an alternative medicine department ( Yoga/Chi/Accupuncture/Ayurveda) and so do some of the big ones.
2.NIH is spending close to 1B dollars annually in search of medicinal herbs from the himalayan regions. Long Long ago without the help of supercomputers some of our ancestors were able to specify the healing properties of the herbs without even doing lab analysis.Same goes for chinese medicine as well.
3.Close to 10% Americans now follow some form of Yoga in their daily activities.Another 10% easily would be doing Qi Gong/Tai Chi .

In the 1960's and 1970's it took atleast two decades to convince modern medicine of the psycho somatic model of the human body.Till that time it was just an bundle of nerves and muscles.Same way the 1980's saw the emergence of Yoga into the mainstream as an valid method. :) Definetly the wheels turn slowly ,but they will. Some in the next generation will surely leave all of this and some of the others will surely embrace the heritage and the knowledge that comes along with it.

Erwin Schrodinger whose wave equation is the foundation of modern quantum mechanics and is one of the foundationstones of modern solid state physics was inspired originally by the vedantic model of duality.He applied it to wave and particle model of the electron . Even his wikipedia page mentions it quite prominently

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erwin_Schr%C3%B6dinger

Anywaz we would be digressing from the topic at hand .We should talk more in the general section .

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Originally Posted by immitime

Your wording is really great

In fact we have an rich heritage to derive inspiration from and atleast the next generation will be better than this one

But if you see the facts, next generation is going down without taking inspiration, the Indian Government want to control all the heritage. Yoga was abandoned for a long time, now when the west approved it everyone knows the value, same thing, there are gold mines in our Indian Heritage, Like Vedic Mathematics, Ayurveda, which treates the cause rather than the symptoms! But most of the new generation folks are behind western culture. And do you know one info. in Stanford, they are taking classes in "Kathopanishad" for one chanpter costs you $4000/- our Rishis and Baba's give it free,(I am against fake ones of course majority are nowadays!!:-)) and most of the people condemn it as hum bug. We still need the western approval for everything. Please Think. now some of the folks may jump at me for this writing, but TRUTH some times hurts. For the jumping jacks ... just wait one more decade to realise this!... probably :-)

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Originally Posted by immitime

Man.. Sanskrit is the mother of all languages, you can use the same word for different meaning at different contexts! saying Sanskrit is non adapatable.. is beacuse of lesser information about that language. Even research is going on for computers to use Sanskrit for programming!

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My friend i completely agree with you that Sanskrit is the mother of all languages.
But doing research on Sanskrit will not make me meet both ends is what i am saying.

The ecosystem around us does not support these languages.Its something like Nokia and RIMM are facing they were the mother/father of smartphones.....look whats happening to them :cool: ecosystems keep changing.....

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Originally Posted by qesehmk

Believe it or not I also enjoyed the train! I just like the rush of it. I am from Pune but very much liked Mumbai for its industrious nature and super friendly people!!!

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Wow Q you are a 'Punekar' ....
Whenever I miss our lovely Pune I quickly get onto google maps and traverse through all my favourite routes and places... ah getting nostalgic now

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Originally Posted by gcseeker

Immitime

Definetly valid points and it is true validation has to come from the west to accept it scientifically. Some examples are

1.Mount Sinai Hospital (One of the most prestigious one's) now has an alternative medicine department ( Yoga/Chi/Accupuncture/Ayurveda) and so do some of the big ones.
2.NIH is spending close to 1B dollars annually in search of medicinal herbs from the himalayan regions. Long Long ago without the help of supercomputers some of our ancestors were able to specify the healing properties of the herbs without even doing lab analysis.Same goes for chinese medicine as well.
3.Close to 10% Americans now follow some form of Yoga in their daily activities.Another 10% easily would be doing Qi Gong/Tai Chi .

In the 1960's and 1970's it took atleast two decades to convince modern medicine of the psycho somatic model of the human body.Till that time it was just an bundle of nerves and muscles.Same way the 1980's saw the emergence of Yoga into the mainstream as an valid method. :) Definetly the wheels turn slowly ,but they will. Some in the next generation will surely leave all of this and some of the others will surely embrace the heritage and the knowledge that comes along with it.

Erwin Schrodinger whose wave equation is the foundation of modern quantum mechanics and is one of the foundationstones of modern solid state physics was inspired originally by the vedantic model of duality.He applied it to wave and particle model of the electron . Even his wikipedia page mentions it quite prominently

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erwin_Schr%C3%B6dinger

Anywaz we would be digressing from the topic at hand .We should talk more in the general section .

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Thank You for this link, I can share another link about Advaita and Physics a pdf great study..will share it later, now it is not handy,

Q' sorry for the offtopic Please move this postings to appropriate thread if you wish

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Originally Posted by Stemcell

My friend i completely agree with you that Sanskrit is the mother of all languages.
But doing research on Sanskrit will not make me meet both ends is what i am saying.

The ecosystem around us does not support these languages.Its something like Nokia and RIMM are facing they were the mother/father of smartphones.....look whats happening to them :cool: ecosystems keep changing.....

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Thank You man I hear you..
Change is only the Changeless Law...

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Originally Posted by gcseeker

Erwin Schrodinger whose wave equation is the foundation of modern quantum mechanics and is one of the foundationstones of modern solid state physics was inspired originally by the vedantic model of duality.

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Cant help but share one more similar thing:
Rumour is that Enrico Fermi upon seeing the first atomic explosion in NM desert said, "The brilliance of this pales only slightly in comparison to Bhasa's genius."

The person who classified and found medicinal values of all plants in Indian continent was Charak who famously said that "All plants are medicinal, all lettters can be used to create mantra, all people are useful, IF one knows how to make it happen".

And finally about Sanskrit, I agree with stemcell that the ecosystem has changed. However Noam Chomsky - the father of modern language theory - has acknowledged Panini's grammar rules as significant source of inspiration. For those from non-comp-science background, today's computers make extensive use of exact same structure of rules called automatons which are already present in Sanskrit in the form of Panini's rules of Sanskrit grammar.

Same here... I miss the bombil fry, bhel, misal to name a few....also miss going to Gajalee @ v.parle. But on a serious note, I too feel the growth in India is haphazard.

Q... just read that you are from Pune... I am a mumbaikar but love Pune too.... Ferguson, symbi, Vaishali & Deccan Queen.. Btw, have you watched the marathi movie - Mumbai Pune Mumbai? Good one. For non-marathi speakers it is about friendly differences that mumbaikars and punekars point about each others.

Haahaahaaa! Same here. Good to know you are a fellow "Punekar". (Other people use the word as a curse by the way! But we dont care.)

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Originally Posted by suninphx

Wow Q you are a 'Punekar' ....
Whenever I miss our lovely Pune I quickly get onto google maps and traverse through all my favourite routes and places... ah getting nostalgic now

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Me too....and i listen to some of my fav chapters from Shantaram(GD Roberts)

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Originally Posted by suninphx

Wow Q you are a 'Punekar' ....
Whenever I miss our lovely Pune I quickly get onto google maps and traverse through all my favourite routes and places... ah getting nostalgic now

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by qesehmk

Haahaahaaa! Same here. Good to know you are a fellow "Punekar". (Other people use the word as a curse by the way! But we dont care.)

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Loved every bit of my 4.5 yrs at Pune ( AFMC ).
M.G Road..Westend...Alankar theater....Victory theater( when money was tight which was always the case ;), ferguson area as was mentioned and Coffee house, Radio Hotel ( 5 rupees and you had your belly full of beef :cool:).....Man i am excited just thinking of those memories.
Has any Punekars been to the Bhootbangla near Westend theater ?


yes please move this post wherever:)