Discussion of Bills that remove the Per Country Limits - H.R.3012, H,R. 213

Anyone writing should address the key points of objection that Grassley raises.
1. It could pave the path for increased numbers
2. American jobs
3. Diversity.

Also, dont assume he knows the exact process and the specifics i.e. individual must hold a job thats approved by DOL and application must be approved by USCIS as well.

From a fairness angle, describe a hypothetical. Eg. I applied in 2008, still waiting. Someone (non-IC) applying in 2010 would get a GC before me .. even with same degree and less work experience.

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Originally Posted by sarthi

Hi friends,

I maintain http://hr3012.wordpress.com and supporting it on principle(making the process first-come and first-serve). If you feel you have something to add, please contact me by commenting on any post there and I will add that to the blog.

Thanks,

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Good work. I'd remove the link to the blog you are rebutting and refer to them as 'a blog opposing HR3012 that purports to represent all skilled immigrants'. You don't want to drive traffic their way.

There is now a rival petition to OPPOSE HR-3012/S-1857:
They have 44 letters so far. We have 318.
Everyone - please be active - use Facebook, Twitter (#HR3012), Letters/Emails/Calls to your Senators - use **'s interface for it if you don't have a strong preference against it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by sarthi

Hi friends,

I maintain http://hr3012.wordpress.com and supporting it on principle(making the process first-come and first-serve). If you feel you have something to add, please contact me by commenting on any post there and I will add that to the blog.

Thanks,

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Quote:

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H.R. 3012 Increase VISA numbers.

HR 3012 *****DOES NOT***** increase any numeric limit… It’s an effort to fix broken Employment based Immigration system and makes it first-come first-serve basis. Keep in mind that the people benefiting from it are already in US and employed by US companies LEGALLY.

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This is a great effort! Thanks!

"H.R. 3012 Increase Visa Number" is plain bad grammar and misleading. Please make it rhetorical. "Does H.R. 3012 increase number of visas?"

Also please remember it is "visa" and not "VISA." VISA refers to the credit card processing company VISA. What we get at consulates is a "visa."

12/01/2011: H.R. 3012 in the Senate: Guess What - Halted For A While!

The Senate glossary reflects that hold means "an informal practice by which a Senator informs his or her floor leader that he or she does not wish a particular bill or other measure to reach the floor for consideration. The Majority Leader need not follow the Senator's wishes, but is on notice that the opposing Senator may filibuster any motion to proceed to consider the measure." It thus appears the action involves not his decision as the Ranking Member of Judiciary Committee but as a member of the Senate on the Senate floor. According to this definition, unless Senator Harry Reid, Senate Majority Leader ignores Sen. Grassley's wish or Senator Grassley himself withdraw his wish, the bill cannot even reach the Judiciary Committee. Additionally, should the Majority Leader ignores his wish and entertain a motion to proceed, it is likely to result in "filibuster" by the Senator Grassley, and unless the filibuster can be broken by 60 or more votes out of total 100 Senators, the bill will be destined to fail. Without doubt, Senators's phone, fax, email, text messaging or other contracts by pro and con forces must be burning now.

Traditionally, employment-based piecemeal immigration reform has faced two hawks in the Senate. One is labor union-backer legislators and the other is anti-immigration legislators. The labor unions in this country have welcome guest workers in the farm and related industry because they help the union to expand its political power since such workers are unionized work forces but opposed the high tech professional workers that are not unionized work forces. Senator Dick Durbin, the Senate majority whip, and Senator Chuck Grassley have gained a reputation as the American Worker Protectionists. They have initated a numerous legislative bills to restrict H-1B and L-1B programs and oppose piece-meal employment based immigration reform. However, when it comes to legalization of undocumented aliens, Sen. Dick Durbin is at forefront to support Comprehensive Immigration Reform, particularly so-called DREAM Act for undocumented youngster, while Sen. Chuck Grassley opposes legalization of undocumented aliens and Comprehensive Immigration Reform. It will be interesting how Rep. Chaffetz of Utah and Sen. Mike Lee of Utah will be able to negotiate with Sen. Grassley to remove the first road block to the Senate consent to the bill, i.e. scheduling of the bill in the Judiciary Committee. Ranking member in a committee in the Congress is similar to a "co-chair" of the committee representing the minority (party) members of the committee in the House or the Senate. Since the Republican party is a minority group in the Senate, in the Senate committees, there are Republican Ranking Members and when it comes to a bill which is sponsored by the Republican party Senators, the Democrat Chairs of the Committees must work with the Ranking Members to schedule hearings and mark-ups for the bills which are sponsored by the minority party House Representatives in the House and the minority party Senators in the Senate. In the Republican House of Representatives, the Chair of Judiciary Committee is Rep. Lamar Smith (R) and Rep. Zoe Lofgren (D) is the Ranking Member. In the Democratic Senate, the Chair of Judiciary Committee is Sen. Leahy (D) and Ranking Member is Sen. Chuck Grassley (R). Accordingly when it comes to the immigration legislations, Senator Chuck Grassley has a powerful bite and unless the two legislators from Utah are successful to work with their own party Ranking Member in the Judiciary Committee in the Senate, this bill has a slim chance to see any activities before the end of the year. Please stay tuned.

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Originally Posted by imdeng

There is now a rival petition to OPPOSE HR-3012/S-1857:
They have 44 letters so far. We have 318.
Everyone - please be active - use Facebook, Twitter (#HR3012), Letters/Emails/Calls to your Senators - use **'s interface for it if you don't have a strong preference against it.

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Count is 470 and increasing........................

The opposition count is 1400+ in the rival petition............do you guys think this a cause for worry? This seems to be some sort of concerted ROW effort......the count seems to increasing in 10's and 20's every hour.......

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Originally Posted by kuku82

The opposition count is 1400+ in the rival petition............do you guys think this a cause for worry? This seems to be some sort of concerted ROW effort......the count seems to increasing in 10's and 20's every hour.......

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If anything happens in Washinton with online petition, then things are easier, Yes we can send online petition just to inform Senators that does not mean that Senators will favour anyone, It all depends on political lobbying and how the bill supporters in Congress and Senate convince Grassley or ignore him for a clouture motion.

Lets wait for the good thing to happen.

There is an ** petition in the same site where we hosted our petition. It is even a half-copy of our petition (the latter half is identical except a 'Member - ****************' insertion) - no credit to us of course - which is fine - whatever helps put more positive effect on HR-3012 is fine with me. This petition is growing rapidly and has eclipsed the opposing petition. Please sign this petition, even if you have signed the petition started by me with ManuBhai's help.
Link: http://www.petition2congress.com/568...mmigrants-act/

If somebody has access to **'s leadership - please ask them to make the following changes:
1. Change the title to include "HR-3012" in it. Currently it just reads: "Please Vote 'Yes' on"
2. Emphasize to people signing the petition to spend $9 to send paper letters.
3. Currently they have selected the default option which sends letters to Senators, Congressman and President. They should perhaps change it to have the letters sent to only Senators since the letter is addressed to only Senators.

Good going, guys.

Btw, if you find online articles that comment on HR 3012, take a minute to post the following comment, which is adapted from manubhai's original letter (just make sure somebody else from here has not posted the comment already), It encapsulates all our main arguments. Who knows, it might influence some senate staffers who are researching the bill online!

"Despite years of shrill partisanship and division over immigration, in H.R.3012, we now have a bill that puts aside all contentious aspects of immigration and is focused on attracting the best and brightest to America's shores, just as it always has.

That said, H.R. 3012 does NOT bring a single new person in to United States. It only aims to make the "process" of employment based immigration fair for the best and brightest English speaking, educated, tax-paying, law abiding, experienced professionals who have previously entered United States legally after proving their worth. H.R. 3012 is a technical fix that makes the process of employment based immigration more "American" because fairness is the quintessential American way.

H.R. 3012 proposes to remove the arbitrarily prescribed limit of 7% per country on annual allotment of green cards - the root cause of the unfairness. Because of this limit, applicants from populous countries like India, China and Philippines are subjected to an inhumane wait of more than 10-20 years to obtain their green cards.

Importantly, and to repeat:
1. This bill does NOT increase the number of immigrants allowed in the United States.
2. This bill eliminates an archaic provision of the current employment based immigration law that discriminates the amount of time an employment based applicant needs to wait based on his country of birth.
3. This bill will have no impact on the diversity of the immigrant pool (much less the diversity of the population of United States) because it only impacts a small percentage of the total immigrant pool entering United States.
4. This bill is a product of lawmakers on both sides of the aisle working together to produce small, beneficial results for the US economy. It has thus passed the House of Representatives with a 96% approval - a rare feat in today's times."

Cool.

Am pretty sure almost all of us have noticed this: ** is asking for folks from Iowa specifically to contact their senators (yea...we know which one specifically) to vouch support for this bill.

I am not sure how many Iowans from I/C are stuck in the GC rut lest follow **. After doing a quick research on Indian associations in Iowa, this is what I found: http://www.iaaiowa.org/index2.html

I am going to write to the directors of this group and ask them to contact their members to write support letters for H.R. 3012 to their senators. I am not sure if any of this going to really help in releasing the hold on the bill, but am compelled to do something much more than following **'s action items.

Any opinion/feedback always welcome!!

Looks like IOWA indian organisation has a yahoo group http://groups.yahoo.com/group/iaaiowa

even better!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kuku82

Cool.

Am pretty sure almost all of us have noticed this: ** is asking for folks from Iowa specifically to contact their senators (yea...we know which one specifically) to vouch support for this bill.

I am not sure how many Iowans from I/C are stuck in the GC rut lest follow **. After doing a quick research on Indian associations in Iowa, this is what I found: http://www.iaaiowa.org/index2.html

I am going to write to the directors of this group and ask them to contact their members to write support letters for H.R. 3012 to their senators. I am not sure if any of this going to really help in releasing the hold on the bill, but am compelled to do something much more than following **'s action items.

Any opinion/feedback always welcome!!

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I've worked in Des Moines, IA for three years and I've had at least 25 friends that are looking to sign the letter(s) from different links and send it to Senators in next couple of days.

Is there any way for anyone to post all links clubbed together??

Btw, I was the one who posted a link saying that Senator Grassley's comments were hoax....and I was proven wrong the next day. Sorry about that. Mistake on my part.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by imdeng

There is an ** petition in the same site where we hosted our petition. It is even a half-copy of our petition (the latter half is identical except a 'Member - ****************' insertion) - no credit to us of course - which is fine - whatever helps put more positive effect on HR-3012 is fine with me. This petition is growing rapidly and has eclipsed the opposing petition. Please sign this petition, even if you have signed the petition started by me with ManuBhai's help.
Link: http://www.petition2congress.com/568...mmigrants-act/

If somebody has access to **'s leadership - please ask them to make the following changes:
1. Change the title to include "HR-3012" in it. Currently it just reads: "Please Vote 'Yes' on"
2. Emphasize to people signing the petition to spend $9 to send paper letters.
3. Currently they have selected the default option which sends letters to Senators, Congressman and President. They should perhaps change it to have the letters sent to only Senators since the letter is addressed to only Senators.

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After seeing ur message. I checked the petition half of the message is copied . I am ** member ...they may have given you the credit . However we all should support .I request all members to sign the petition.

Funny! :-) We need a little humor around here these days.

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Originally Posted by manubhai

As I said, I wholeheartedly give them credit for laying open the tools that people could use. But I am not a big fan of anyone telling me that I'm good for nothing if -
1. I dont do exactly as they say.
2. I do anything other than what they say.
(3. They are not my H1 employer who are also sponsoring my green card.)

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Completely support ManuBhai's action item here - Call Your Senator. Do not be intimidated - you will be talking to a staffer - who will listen to you and will note down your message. Takes one minute. Write physical letters to your Senators - they are effective since the Senator's office needs to keep track of all written communication and need to reply with a written communication.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by manubhai

You are doing a big disservice to yourself if you are not making those 20 second phone calls. If you've never done one, please realize, its easier than eating a chocolate ice cream. They know why you've called... they listen to you finish your 3 sentences. And they say they've noted your opinion and will pass it on to the senator. Some may ask for your name and zip code. They thank you. You thank them.

At the end of the day, the precise numbers dont matter. The senator just needs to hear from their staff that they've been getting "way too many" calls in favor of this particular bill. The senator asks for a 5 minute review from an attorney and relations people on his staff. And then the senator talks to two other senators for their opinion. Soon... they are all talking. And voting.

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Sooooo does anyone know what the next steps and timeline are in terms of the bill. There's all this back door stuff that'll happen but formally what needs to happen? I assume its
1. Get past the Senate Judiciary Cmte
2. Get scheduled on the Senate calendar

Most likely #1 will happen quickly but its the second step that will take time, right ?

Sportfan33, i was just reporting same news.. anyways, the report is from IrishEmigrant org website of MA chapter. And they are pushing for this amendment. And if i am not wrong they are asking irish community to call Kerry/brown to add this amendment.

If this amendment is added to this bill, I am going to ask Senator from my state to add an amendment to this bill Special visa for "jackbrown_890 + dependants + family + friends + q's forum members". lol.
Seriously, I hope Kerry/brown won't add this amendment. But lets wait and see.

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Originally Posted by sportsfan33

What in the name of God is going on with this bill in the Senate?

This is from the OH's website.

"12/06/2011: Prsssures from Various Interest Groups Mushroom to Amend H.R. 3012 in the Senate

Sen. Grassley's action represents interest of one segment of interest groups in the country - Either to kill or strengthen restriction to the employment-based immigration for the alleged interest of American workers. There are also other interest groups that want to see this bill fail in the Senate because of alleged negative impact of this bill on those countries. Diverse interests which play out in the political process involving H.R. 3012 do not end there. There is a third group that wants to add their countries to give advantage to their countrries in employment-based visa numbers. Report indicates that the Irish group has just begun a campaign adding pressures on the Senators from Massachusetts to amend H.R. 3012 adding "Irish E-3 Amendment" to provide 10,500 annual visas (plus dependents) for Irish men and women to come legally to work in the U.S. Their proposed amendment would require a job here, and undocumented workers currently here could apply for waivers to use the new visa. The applicable skill level would be the same as the Diversity Lottery. Their Senator John Kerry (D) is a senior and powerful legislator in the Senate. From the perspectives of the initial H.R. 3012 sponsor, such forces can be allies in that it could help the bill pass in the Senate, albeit with amendments. Read on. "

I honestly did not think people like John Kerry etc. are going to be involved in a bill we thought was too insignificant. Apparently not! On one hand, OH seems to say that the bill will push forward in the Senate with some amendments, but on the other hand, we have always thought no amendments can do it any good.

Where is OH getting all this information?

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I sincerely doubt that would happen. Let's remove all quotas..... except let's allow the Irish a separate quota. :)

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Originally Posted by sportsfan33

I agree jackbrown. Talk about a ridiculous amendment! And why 10,500? I wonder...10000 was a nice round number, I did not understand the logic of this number that they pulled out of their hat.

I don't think this E-3 amendment has any merit and Kerry is not stupid to fall for this. However OH is still saying that "interest groups" with countries that are affected want to kill this bill. I wonder which countries he is talking about.

I guess we have a battle on our hand and I wonder if it is time to act as one group instead of individuals. Unfortunately the said group is hated here, but we may not have a choice at this point.

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As far as i know - so far Irish (with this amendment) and Nepalese (asking all their members to support to kill the bill) community...

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Originally Posted by sportsfan33

1. It seems Grassley wants H1B restrictions.
2. Some other "unknown" interest groups want the bill to fail, although we don't know a Senator who has called out for the alleged countries that will suffer.
3. The crazy irish want their separate quota.

I believe only Grassley has merit. I don't think any other Senators are going to care whether Pakistani/Syrian/Iranian/Ghanian/Venezualan gets a visa over an Indian. We know that EB2/3 immigration is dominated by 3rd world countries, and it makes no sense that the exclusive rich white men/women club in the Senate care to protect a smaller third world country from a larger one.

The Irish amendment is just ridiculous. It is just reported in a local paper. I don't think Kerry is gonna fall for that, but you never know. After all, he managed to lose his election quite spectacularly to a chimp.

I feel if Grassley can be convinced with minimal amendments, the bill will be rammed through the Senate. That's what our focus should be - the Indian friends in Iowa.

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Yup, Grassley would want to attach H1b reform probably. I just hope it doesn't open up a floodgate for amendments from Senate Dems. Because they would probably want to attach DREAM Act to this bill.

this is going to be a total cluster. the fact that it went through so easily in the House is the reason why they all want to jump on this. I hope House bill sponsors can convince Grassley to drop his Hold. As for amendments, they have to be approved too. Those will most likely be killed even if at all they are raised. There's no way any Congressman is going to support a country-specific amendment to this bill.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by sportsfan33

I feel if Grassley can be convinced with minimal amendments, the bill will be rammed through the Senate. That's what our focus should be - the Indian friends in Iowa.

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I agree wholeheartedly. In fact, he may be convinced sans amendments if a couple of key Dems agree to back Grassley's own bill asking for stricter H1B enforcement. Not a bad step, I think, although I haven't actually read his bill.

When a bill comes to the Senate, mostly this kind of bargaining is expected, and here Like "Horse Trading" things may be amended according to the interest groups influence and lobbying power, to avoid fillibuster, Senators supporting this bill may agree to add amendment.

But definitely not the Irish E-3 thing. because this bill itself is for "Fairness" in immigration, to treat every EB immigrant as equal immaterial of which country he/she is from (at least within three years (2012 to 2014)) The Irish argument and what they are asking is senseless and right away will be rejected by their respective Senators. And the Irish bill can be another separate bill which should pass through Congress,again

Otherwise as jack_brown said, Q's forum, can ask its own quota for EB immigration. Lets wait for the drama to unfold.

This Bill has opened a can of worms if anything else. Another popular immigration forum is full of hate posts. I do not feel safe to even get on the site anymore. I hear there is a yahoo forum for the other Team and that they are approaching anti immigrant organization to vote against HR 3012. I never knew anti immigrant org = anti Indian org. This Bill has truly brought out the worst, ugly side of both teams

Irish amendment or any other amendment for that matter will not be added IMO. There are stronger groups looking for Immigration reform who has kept silent on this bill. DREAM act proponents, they are powerful. Have we even heard of them asking to add DREAM to this ? Illegal immigrant groups, they haven't asked either. These amendments has no chance of being added to this bill as far as I can see.

Grassley has always been like these. He has been trying to attach Durbin-Grassley H1B reform to any bill that comes along.

in EB ROW forum, they tried to contact Programmer's guild. Relevant portions from the response.

Quote:

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I am glad that Senator Grassley is speaking against it. But I don't know that he can sway the majority vote.

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Grassley and Durbin H1b so called reform bill explained by Sheela Murthy website.(way back in 2009) I think they are trying to get this included in any bill named "immigration" But it is difficult to include in any bill. these ideas are hardcore and antibusiness, They tried this in 2009 and they want to try the same 2012 also.

http://www.murthy.com/news/n_durgra.html

Bill text

http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c111:S.887:

Grassley's website says he want to do this this time too.

http://www.grassley.senate.gov/news/...eID_1502=30928

I think convincing Grassley is going to be one tough job for Chaffetz and Lee. I personally think Grassley doesn't have a clue about the EB green card system. He has just blocked the bill because it is related to immigration and he is an anti-immigrant in general. Either he will be persistent in his demand to attach his amendments for H1B or he will just try to kill the bill. This whole system of just one senator being able to put an illogical hold on the bill saying it does not protect American workers and harm the entire bill is really terrible.

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Originally Posted by Jonty Rhodes

I think convincing Grassley is going to be one tough job for Chaffetz and Lee. I personally think Grassley doesn't have a clue about the EB green card system. He has just blocked the bill because it is related to immigration and he is an anti-immigrant in general. Either he will be persistent in his demand to attach his amendments for H1B or he will just try to kill the bill. This whole system of just one senator being able to put an illogical hold on the bill saying it does not protect American workers and harm the entire bill is really terrible.

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Yup, i agree with you. It will be nice to have Grassley, lift the hold but he is not going to so It will be actually easy to convince either Reid to ignore d hold and proceed and take fillibuster risk (if he can do that) or find 16 senators to file cloture

There is increasing momentum by unemployed US citizen techie groups to fight this bill using the argument that it increases IT green cards and thus encourages more IT folks to apply for jobs in the US.

The argument would be disproved if we can show that Indians & Chinese do not form a larger % of IT employees than ROW. In other words, when an Indian IT applicant takes his rightful place in the queue, it is a ROW IT applicant that is being displaced and not a ROW doctor/accountant/chef. I believe the numbers that would prove/disprove this hypothesis is here:

http://www.flcdatacenter.com/CasePerm.aspx

Does someone here have MS Access? If so, can you dig through and see what the numbers say?

What we need is % of IT Perms filed (or H1Bs) split amonst different countries. i.e., % of Indian PERMS that are IT related, % of Chinese PERMs that are IT related, % of all ROW PERMS that are IT related.

These techie groups are traditionally anti-immigrant. They are not really against workers or for American workers they are against a particular race. H1B and GC in this country is predominantly for IT workers. This is the largest pool taking advantage of this visa. So their argument that this bill increase IT folks coming to US won't fly. Why should ROW IT workers get priority over Indian/Chinese worker ? They are just workers, country of birth doesn't matter. That is the very purpose of this bill.

I reiterate my point, EB immigration doesn't discriminate between professions. A candidate is either EB1/EB2/EB3/EB4/EB5 as per immigration law. Immigration law does not care whether the applicant is an IT guy/doctor/financial analyst etc. So their argument is flawed. No need to even counter them.

Who is backing this bill ? Compete america, majority of which are comprised of Tech companies.

Pedro,
Where did you get that info about that techie group ?

Gcq, By momentum, i mean there are two separate groups that seem to be antiHR3012 for now. The note on the programmer's guild from you and a post was the first, and trackitt that led me to a blog that i'll PM you with the url of. You probably saw it already. I don't want to publish the url as I'd rather not drive additional traffic to the site.

what a sh*t show ? Everyones looking out for their own agendas. No one is looking at the bigger picture. that's the problem with politics in a democracy.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Pedro Gonzales

There is increasing momentum by unemployed US citizen techie groups to fight this bill using the argument that it increases IT green cards and thus encourages more IT folks to apply for jobs in the US.

The argument would be disproved if we can show that Indians & Chinese do not form a larger % of IT employees than ROW. In other words, when an Indian IT applicant takes his rightful place in the queue, it is a ROW IT applicant that is being displaced and not a ROW doctor/accountant/chef. I believe the numbers that would prove/disprove this hypothesis is here:

http://www.flcdatacenter.com/CasePerm.aspx

Does someone here have MS Access? If so, can you dig through and see what the numbers say?

What we need is % of IT Perms filed (or H1Bs) split amonst different countries. i.e., % of Indian PERMS that are IT related, % of Chinese PERMs that are IT related, % of all ROW PERMS that are IT related.

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You might not like the answer, but here you go.

These figures are for FY2010, but they are the same for FY2009 and FY2011 using US ECONOMIC SECTOR from the PERM data.

IT
CHINA --------- 2.77%
INDIA -------- 78.89%
MEXICO -------- 0.53%
PHILIPPINES --- 1.11%
ROW ---------- 16.70%
Total % ----- 100.00%

Around 2/3 of Indian PERM filings are either IT (55%) or Advanced Manufacturing (Semiconductors) (12%).

In contrast, the % of total ROW PERM filings for IT are 10.80% and for China 13.55%. Only 3.18% of Mexico's PERM filings and 6.66% of Philippines PERMs are in IT.

Other Areas:

Health Care
CHINA --------- 1.68%
INDIA -------- 21.74%
MEXICO -------- 1.05%
PHILIPPINES -- 23.82%
ROW ---------- 51.71%
Total % ----- 100.00%

Educational Services
CHINA -------- 11.21%
INDIA -------- 12.20%
MEXICO -------- 4.40%
PHILIPPINES --- 6.63%
ROW ---------- 65.56%
Total % ----- 100.00%

I am not n IT guy but if i am not wrong tech sector unemployment is below 4% and it is growing so there is a demand. and majority of IT is not one of the sectors like retail where you just train someone for 3 months and they can acquire all skills needed for that job.



Great Spectator: I am assuming your numbers on healthcare include nurses too.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jackbrown_890

I am not n IT guy but if i am not wrong tech sector unemployment is below 4% and it is growing so there is a demand. and majority of IT is not one of the sectors like retail where you just train someone for 3 months and they can acquire all skills needed for that job.



Great Spectator: I am assuming your numbers on healthcare include nurses too.

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Sorry for replying on behalf of Spectator. I think that is correct. Philippines doesn't send lot of physicians. They mainly send nurses. Their ratio of Physicians:Nurses is 1:9. For India, it is opposite that is Physicians:Nurses, 8:2. This is not an exact number and I also don't have any data to support it but that is what a general consensus would be if you ask any Indian and Philippino physician or a nurse.

Again, this is my assessment based on my experience and my interactions with other people in health care. I could be wrong.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jackbrown_890

Great Spectator: I am assuming your numbers on healthcare include nurses too.

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jackbrown,

That is a good question and I nearly added some comments about them.

Generally nurses will not be included for several reasons.

Primarily, nurses do not go through the PERM process because they fall under Schedule A.

When separate Schedule A visas were last available (50k recaptured), they covered PDs up to late 2005.

The usage of these visas was Philippines - 80%, India - 20% and ROW - 20%

Neither are the majority of nurses eligible for H1B, because their qualification is not considered equivalent to a Bachelors. Hence the huge number from the Philippines on the EB3 NVC waiting list.

Neither will all the Doctors be captured, since many will use the EB2-NIW route which does not require a PERM. I've never seen any figures for what % NIW is of EB2, let alone any breakdown of its usage.

Obviously that does distort the figures somewhat, but probably not in a meaningful way. Philippines would be a higher % of the Healthcare sector. The Bill doesn't really help them in the short term at all anyway.

Looking at Spect's statistics, it does not give an argument for ROW either.
Indians are predominantly IT folks, doctor's etc whereas ROW is mostly concentrated in Educational services ( I guess teachers etc).

IT vs educational services, that is what it boils down to.