I don't see any NY NJ Congressmen that voted no.Quote:
Originally Posted by vizcard
I don't see any NY NJ Congressmen that voted no.Quote:
Originally Posted by vizcard
My bad. It was NC that had the NOs. I scrolled a little too much when I went down the list.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pedro Gonzales
that has something curious in it too. Both democrats that voted no are from NC.Quote:
Originally Posted by vizcard
Alert from Fargomen about HR 3012 http://www.fragomen.com/newsresource...erts&news=1408
Quote:
Originally Posted by natvyas
Sen Grassley places hold on H.R.3012 (number usa news I do not know how much value we can give it to this. but need to work on Grassley more to make his thinking proper.
https://www.numbersusa.com/content/node/12604
Sen. Chuck Grassley to Place Hold on Employment-Based Visa Bill
https://www.numbersusa.com/content/node/12604
:( This is bad news.Quote:
Originally Posted by immitime
For a moment I thought the Republicans might actually possess some intelligence...
From Wikipedia:
A "hold" is placed when the leader's office is notified that a senator intends to object to a request for unanimous consent from the Senate to consider or pass a measure. A hold may be placed for any reason and can be lifted by a senator at any time. A senator may place a hold simply to review a bill, to negotiate changes to the bill, or to kill the bill. A bill can be held for as long as the senator who objects to the bill wishes to block its consideration.
Holds can be overcome, but require time-consuming procedures such as filing cloture. Holds are considered private communications between a senator and the Leader, and are sometimes referred to as "secret holds". A senator may disclose that he or she has placed a hold.
This is not good at all for the bill. It will kill it.
It seems that the Senate will now need to file cloture and get 60/100 votes in favor if Grassley doesn't withdraw the hold. It will need at least 9 republicans to support if all Dems vote for it.
I think the bill just got f***ed.
hold - An informal practice by which a Senator informs his or her floor leader that he or she does not wish a particular bill or other measure to reach the floor for consideration. The Majority Leader need not follow the Senator's wishes, but is on notice that the opposing Senator may filibuster any motion to proceed to consider the measure.Quote:
Originally Posted by venkimakthal
He is opposing bill , but still it will move on. This time he is going to be a biggest looser.
IMO the only way a bill can pass through senate is by a cloture vote. There is no other way to let a bill through senate without one determined senator filibustering it. As for Grassley, he is known to block all immigration bills. I think this bill will have enough votes to overcome filibustering. For now I would consider this only as game by Grassley which will ultimately be overturned one way or other.
How about making calls & Sending letters to Mr.Grassley to support . Will that work.
Grassley is an anti-immigrant lawmaker (Steve King's "cousin" in the senate ) Calling/Mailing won't work with him.Quote:
Originally Posted by letheQ
Quote:
Originally Posted by abcx13
Quote:
Originally Posted by devi_pd
A little typical of us Indians, I think, such volatile swings of emotion. Reminds me of how we held our team up as unbeatable when they won the WC, and then wanted them skinned alive when they failed to win a test in England 2 months later.Quote:
Originally Posted by abcx13
Nothing's changed between the day before yesterday, yesterday and today. It was always going to be a challenge getting this through the senate, and it still is. There was always a good chance of successfully getting this through the senate and there still is.
I don't believe Grassley will actually resort to a filibuster on something as trivial as HR3012 even if he threatens to. And in any case, if you think you won't get 9 Republican Senators to support a Republican sponsored bill that had 96% of support in the House you are seriously deluded. 3 already sponsored bills that had the provision in it!
Take a deep breath and think this through before putting a gun to your heads.
Like some others said here, every one knows Grassley will not support any immigration bills. I don't think this is a surprise or there is any thing to panic. Just do what ever we can to support. ** may asked for more support as they may need more resources to get to all the offices in the limited time.
From **:
Administrator2: Guys, please, I know we all really want to see this through but please, understand that there is a process here, and at the end of the day we are in good shape. Just hang tight and let us do our thing. If it makes you feel any better, we knew this yesterday and knew this was coming almost weeks ahead. Let the process unfold and things will happen. We need not overreact. Its all for good.
This is a Republican sponsored bill and Republicans showed more support to it in the House than Dems. This was part of Rubio's AGREE Act. This will not be shot down by Republicans. There will be individual opposition (like Grassley in Senate and King in House) - but unfortunately individual opposition carries more weight in the Senate than in the House. Still - I think at this point it is just posturing by Grassley - he gets a lot of money from NumbersUSA type people and he has to show something for it. This will delay the bill a little bit - but Chuck Shumer has mentioned that he is going to push the bill through quickly - and considering that is the chair of the Judicial Committee - I am still hopeful about the passage of the bill before Christmas.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sportsfan33
I'm not an expert but this could be "posturing" .....there is a lot of give and take involved in these corridors of power....who knows grassley wants to cut a deal on a different bill and wants the sponsors to come to the table by doing this
Someone rightly said....let's wait and watch.....this is not unexpected and we should not be naive.....
Ref https://www.numbersusa.com/content/node/12604
Guys,
This is the reason, he is giving...
"I rise to inform my colleagues that I am placing a hold on H.R. 3012, the Fairness for High-Skilled Immigrants Act. This bill would eliminate the per-country numerical limitations for employment and family-based immigrants. I have concerns about the impact of this bill on future immigration flows, and am concerned that it does nothing to better protect Americans at home who seek high-skilled jobs during this time of record high unemployment."
We all know that, this bill will not rise the number of immigrants and hence it will not be a fodder for any anti-immigrant groups. Grassley might not have read it thoroughly, if he did, he may not give the statement he made above. There are chances that he might even go back on this (remove hold). But, in case if there are any changes made to this bill right now, then it has to go back to the house. That will take another 3 to 6 months in case if it passes and the bill might be active from OCT 2012, instead of applying retroactively to Oct 2011.
See here.....No press releases by Mr. Grassley today on HR3012
http://www.grassley.senate.gov/news/press_releases.cfm
You will also find what was released today.
Thanks.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nayekal
Numbersusa is a dedicated anti-immigrant website. Please do not trust what they have to say about any immigration issues.
It's not a hoax. It's now in Congressional Records.
Not sure if link will work, but I can see the thing on congressional records website.
http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/.../~r112PaC8F3::
Media narrative on HR-3012 is focusing more on the FB side of the bill.
http://latino.foxnews.com/latino/pol...-make-us-home/
Not a particularly bad thing - the bill is now in Democrats' hands - and they are likely to be more amenable to a narrative centered on Latinos. The article also mentions the encouraging comment by Sen. Chuck Schumer.
my 2 cents on grassley - i think that is nothing but posturing. Stay positive about the bill. Grassley has to take the stand he is taking. But looking at the house voted on this one - he is going to be alone on this one.
Also note what NumbersUSA says -
That in itself says this bill is in the best shape it could ever be.Quote:
NumbersUSA took no position on the bill since it would not change overall immigration levels.
It was clearly nor a hoax - it was a statement made by Grassley on the Senate floor. However, it was to be expected from someone as anti-immigrant as Grassley. There will now be some sort of negotiation I imagine and he might try to insert some stupid amendment there. Lots of bills get holds in the Senate and then get ultimately resolved - so its not something that will kill the bill given the exceedingly popular support behind it in the house and presumably in the Senate as well. However, the process of either negotiating away a hold or cloture motion to override the hold both will take some time and will delay the passage in the Senate. The delay might just be a few days on the optimistic side to forever on the extreme pessimistic side - the balance of opinion at this time though is on the optimistic side.
Hispanic vote in Vegas might be the key that will force Reid's hand. Plus - at least Rubio (FL) and Lee (UT) are already on board on the R side.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PD2008AUG25
Very positive coverage by Bloomberg: http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-1...ists-view.html
Important/interesting bits:
The stupid hold by Grassley has not gone unnoticed:
A good economic argument for more EB GCs:Quote:
After the House passed its legislation on Nov. 29, Senator Charles Grassley of Iowa, host of the upcoming caucuses, promptly placed a hold on the bill, which is expected to have broad support from his Senate colleagues.
And finally, the awesome conclusion:Quote:
Only 15 percent of visas are granted for economic reasons, a policy that undermines U.S. companies competing in a global talent pool. Foreign students account for the majority of computer science and engineering doctorates earned from U.S. institutions. (In 2006, more than 4,500 foreign students earned engineering Ph.D.’s in the U.S., almost two-thirds of the total.) Yet there’s no policy to allow, let alone encourage, them to stay in the U.S. after graduation.
Quote:
There is no reason a bill that passed the House by an overwhelming margin should be stymied in the Senate. For the health of the U.S. economy -- and perhaps for the health of Congress itself -- this eminently passable, aggressively unobjectionable, bipartisan legislation should be approved quickly.
Imdeng both of us have PD in the same month...whats your date?
Quote:
Originally Posted by imdeng
7th Aug 2009 Self Coach. Its not a bad date - I avoid the nightmare 8th scenario :-)
Quote:
Originally Posted by self.coach
This is absolutely a political move rather than genuine concern for American jobs. Someone needs to explain the GC process to him as I'm not sure if he knows how it works.Quote:
Originally Posted by imdeng
A review of Grassley's immigration related press releases http://www.grassley.senate.gov/issues/Immigration.cfm shows a focus on eliminating H1B / B1 / L1 fraud (which in itself is commendable) and perhaps restricting immigration in general (he is against STEM, against OPT and strict policing of all PERM applications). However, I do not see anything overtly racist or anti-India/China on his page. He does seem to have a strong opinion against Infosys on a lawsuit that they are involved in, and seems to think that Indian IT services companies use the H1B to gain expertise prior to outsourcing operations for their clients, all of which may taint his opinion of India on the whole, but I don't see much else of any relevance to HR3012.
In summary, I don't think his hold is the result of any opinions against the bill in itself, but only a ploy to get the administration or other legislators to agree to his longstanding demands for H1B fraud elimination (maybe as an amendment to this bill, but maybe even independently). We'll find out soon enough, I guess.
Here are some of the relevant press releases from Grassley's office.
http://www.grassley.senate.gov/news/...eID_1502=36205
http://www.grassley.senate.gov/news/...eID_1502=34705
http://www.grassley.senate.gov/news/...eID_1502=33437
http://www.grassley.senate.gov/news/...eID_1502=29095
Saw your signature...is your expectation of Jan 2013 assuming HR 3012 passes and made effective immediately, or irrespective of the bill?Quote:
Originally Posted by imdeng
Pedro,
Racists will never give an impression that they are racists. Even NUSA recently started claiming they are not anti-immigrant. No one can afford to be a racist or anti-immigrant in modern day. I have been following him for years now. He is always against anything Indian.
It as an anti-immigrant ploy to give an excuse to prevent immigrant friendly bills. It has been NUSA's strategy for years. Either they blame unemployment for not bringing bills or highlight entire H1B program as outsourcing visa. They cannot publicly declare that they are anti-immigrants. So they always find an excuse. Grassley and King works in close co-ordination with NUSA and other anti-immigrant groups.
As for his fraud credentials, I saw this link on trackitt.
http://ytspar.posterous.com/phony-fa...rowley-readers
Rather than EB1, EB2 EB3 (specific countries, quota) etc. this bill elminates the discrimination between people who may be Future Americans in the name of Country of Origin! so this is one of the positive point in Senate which all Senators agree.
And the bill never increase any visas or numbers, they are just making this fair for everyone in a First In First out basis.this one is second positive point in favour of H.R.3012
if any one gives any counter arguments for the above points, it may not be valid in a Equal opportunity, Democratic country like US of A.
Fraud in H1B, poor economy, unemployment, etc etc will not be valid against the above two strong positive point.
This bill should be done deal soon.;)
We now have our first troll and others are soon to follow I am sure. This is the price we pay for being a popular forum. Please take note of the following:
1. DO NOT RESPOND to any flaming/trolling. This only encourages them. This forum is NOT for convincing anybody regarding HR-3012 when they have already made their mind. Please ignore inflammatory posts.
2. Moderators - please be ruthless in deleting inflammatory posts and banning trolls - especially when someone's first post is a trolling attempt.
We do not want this to become another trackitt forum. We focus on analysis, discussion and civil discourse. If someone asks a genuine question then by all means - go ahead and answer - but - if you see a trolling attempt - then please - IGNORE.
Agreed - everyone is entitled to their opinions but stating opinions (prejudiced or not) as facts should not be encouraged on this forum. If we delete such trolls then we are not being democratic.....so I am against that - is there a way for moderator to highlight such a troll post such a way that the users of this forum identify it as a "to-be-ignored"? Somewhere in the header you can explain the conventions..just a suggestion.
Guys, can someone explain how it works when a bill is approved by the house and is then passed on to the senate? Does it have to go through the judiciary committee in the senate? Or is it upto the majority leader to place the bill on the floor for a vote without having gone through the senate judiciary? Also, how/where does this 'hold' exactly impact the progress?
If this is already answered, please point me to the corresponding link. I just want to be sure that I am contacting the right people at the right time.
Looking at Grassley's hold pattern, reminds me of Ron's verbiage. Modified for grassley:
Grassley looks at every legislation like a dog looking at lamp posts.
I don't know if anyone's noticed, but Trackitt has become an absolute battleground today. Craziness from both sides. First non-FIFOers carpet bombed it with misleading threads spreading misinformation and now FIFOers are responding with blank message threads. If they don't start moderating that site it will lose eyeballs rapidly.
EDIT: - The moderators seem to have woken up and deleted the blank message threads but it's still pretty awful out there.
A big difference in fighting style between the samurais and the ninjas was that the ninjas avoided looking the opponent in the eye, and the samurais always did.
The samurais wanted to determine the enemy's next move by understanding the expression and the movement of the eye. The ninja's wanted to hide their own move, but more importantly, went far out to let the enemy think that they were weak, and untrained in the arts. They even attacked the enemy from behind.
The ninjas ultimately beat the crap out of the samurais.
1. Inflaming your opponents (not enemies... just opponents in a discussion) is a big sign of stupidity. I'd love it if you come on to a message board, call me and my country all sorts of names, feel good about it, and go to sleep. But I'm in big trouble if you are calm and collected and instead of calling me names, just "DO" what needs to be done to further your cause.
In summary: If you are on trackitt, please don't inflame non-IC. It serves nothing but make them more likely to gather more support for their cause. Also, PM the IC person and request them to ignore the trolls.
2. Trolls are like plague. If you touch them by responding back to them, you die. (Even if you were a ninja!!)
You get the idea?? Now let's get back to the beautiful work we do on this board, letting them hate us, so that when we have our green cards, we can make them love us.
I think the key line hereQuote:
Originally Posted by nayekal
" that it does nothing to better protect Americans at home who seek high-skilled jobs during this time of record high unemployment."
We all know that the numbers are not increasing but what if he wants to reduce the numbers. His statement says "bill does nothing to protect" so he might want to include an addendum to reduce visa numbers