Discussion of Bills that remove the Per Country Limits - H.R.3012, H,R. 213

The reason they have companion bills is that even if one gets defeated in either chamber the other bill remains alive.

HR 3012 is in so advance staged, and if it passes the House vote, then it will be sent to Senate. But the Senate bill S. 1857 is still in the subcommittee stage. So the senate leader might decide to directly vote on HR 3012 and keep aside S. 1857 for now.

It all depends on what Sen. Harry Reid decides to do.

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Originally Posted by sportsfan33

I like your optimism, but I am not taking it for granted that the bill is going to come for a vote in the Senate. The only reason this bill has seen a smooth passage so far in my opinion is that it was co-sponsored by Lamar Smith from day 1, and it added Zoe Lofgren later as another co-sponsor. I have to see a big name Senator - let alone a Democratic Senator - co-sponsor S1857.

I have little doubt that the bill will become law *if* it came for a vote in the Senate *now*. How it comes for a vote and when, those questions ultimately decide its fate.

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Yup, if any big name from Senate (like Smith from the House Judiciary as co-sponsor), it will make passage of this bill in the Senate easy. I can think for few names, either Schumer, Leahy, coons or even McCain, Graham with one dem.

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Originally Posted by jackbrown_890

I definitely agree with you. It is a thin line here. But the main reason/intention behind media attention is to get Hispanic support since it does affect FB category visas.
Plus we already know both the parties support legal immigration reform and as it is bi-partisan in the House, my thinking behind media attention is to get bi-partisan support for S.1857. I may be wrong but i think there are many bills passed in the house and don't move in senate. Getting some media attention may bring some Hispanic support and thus making it desirable to move fast in senate to attract voters for both parties.
And i also agree with you about contacting lawmakers. We definitely need to do that this is just another side step to help 1857 move in senate.
I also have no problem in removing iReport if more people think this is not a good idea to generate media attention.
Let me know.
Thanks

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Don't worry about it. Just let it be there. If we need Hispanic support, then those working on the bill will to reach out to the Hispanic leadership. Once things get to media, advocacy goes out for a toss and we cannot control the discussion or the message. But I still applaud your initiative and leadership.

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Originally Posted by sportsfan33

2. Will the bill creator instead decide to *merge* it with the AGREE act? Even if it were possible, is it desirable? HR 3012 is a proper subset of the AGREE act, but the remaining items of the AGREE act would need to clear the House hurdles again assuming they clear the Senate hurdles. This will just add more time and more hurdles. An unadulterated version of 3012 (S1857) on the other hand can clear the Senate on its own, and straight away end up on the President's desk.

The advantage of the AGREE act is that it has 4 co-sponsors from both sides of the aisle, has gotten decent coverage in the media so far and may actually go somewhere in the Senate.

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We should wait for Kanmani's expertise and the exact text of AGREE, but my understanding is that AGREE is basically an amalgamation of bills that have already passed the house (with the exception of HR3012, which will hopefully also pass shortly). So, AGREE wouldn't need to pass the house again if it doesn't have any amendments added. It would merely be a procedural issue to merge the several house bills into one and send AGREE to the president for his signature.

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Originally Posted by kd2008

Please be careful in gathering media attention. The bill is still in delicate stage. And we don't want to invite outside scrutiny and the antis yet. Rather use your enthusiasm to gather and reach out to people who will pick up the phone and call Senators when the time comes.

The thing about advocacy is we want attention of lawmakers esp now that we have a bill but not general distracting chatter from media. A simple out of context case of someone abusing the system will undo the whole bill.

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Agree- completely.

If there is anyone from the following states interested in advocacy could you please send me a private message?

Alabama, Tennessee, South Carolina, Louisiana, Mississippi, Missouri, Idaho, Montana, Nebraska, South Dakota, North Dakota, New Mexico, Arkansas.

Tasks involved would be calling Senators and meeting their staff in person.

If you know anyone please engage them and get them to call their Senators and Congresspersons.

Please refrain from asking on facebook etc. Direct contact via email or phone or private message on this forum preferred

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Originally Posted by leo4ever

Suspension of the rules is a procedure generally used to quickly pass non-controversial bills in the United States House of Representatives.

A motion to suspend the rules is in order on Mondays and Tuesdays and towards the end of a session of Congress and may only be made by the Speaker of the House or their designee, though it is customary for committee chairs to write the Speaker requesting a suspension. Once a member makes a motion to "suspend the rules" and take some action, debate is limited to 40 minutes, no amendments can be offered to the motion or the underlying matter, and a 2/3 majority of Members present and voting is required to agree to the motion.
A suspension motion sets aside all procedural and other rules that would otherwise prohibit the House from consideration of the measure, but the specific rules that are to be suspended are never mentioned in the motion. Typically, a suspension motion is phrased as a motion to "suspend the rules and pass the bill," and, if the Motion is agreed to, the bill is considered as passed by the House. A Member can also move to suspend the rules and take another action, such as to "suspend the rules and consider the bill," and the House shall take the proposed action if two-thirds of those voting are in favor of the motion.
Most often, bills "on suspension" are non-controversial legislation -- such as naming Post Offices of the United States Postal Service or federal buildings -- and nearly all bills that are considered under suspension rules have bipartisan support. Both major political parties in the United States -- the Democratic Party and Republican Party -- have internal rules that prohibit proposing or supporting a bill under suspension unless it costs less than $100 million.


Source: Wiki

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More positive news related to 3012. Still a long way to go but forward progress is good... atleast we'll know one way or the other sooner rather than later.

Agree with others not going to media for this. Personally, I would like this bill to pass without much hype or hoopla. More public attention to this bill can raise more hurdles and throw more controversies. If media gets a hint of it and picks up the topic, people opposing it can twist the logic behind this bill, the way they want and then the entire focus will be disrupted.

Many of ROW people who are yet to file their GC in EB2 and EB3 are unaware of this. Many ROWers who filed their GCs in 2008, 2009, 2010 and early 2011 in EB2 have already been greened so they don't care about this bill (My EB2 colleagues from Pakistan, Iran, Syria, South Korea, Algeria, Russia, Nepal, Bangladesh, Jordan, Lebanon, Nigeria, England and Canada don't even know about this bill as they have already got their GCs and have stopped following any forums). The main opposition of this bill is coming from EB3ROW which is not a significant number compared to sum of EB2I, EB2C, EB3I, EB3C, EB3M and EB3P. That is why we should not provide more leverage to those who are already opposing it and not make other ROW aware about this bill who are yet to file their GCs.

I sincerely request everyone who knows about this bill to refrain from contacting any media houses. Let us leave that job to the people from ** who are involved in backdoor advocacy, and let them go public when they feel it is appropriate. Personally, I don't see any reason at all to go public even if this bill becomes a law. This bill has been presented mainly as a minor administrative fix for the glitch in the employment based green card system existing from long time. That's the way it should be kept and presented also.

Keeping my fingers crossed. Hopefully, it will pass in the house smoothly.

Just thought of giving thanks to the forum and the participants for helping build an understanding and enlightening us on a topic very important to us. It will not get us GC sooner but thru with this clarity people have figured out what they should expect and when. It has reduced stress for me even before i was current and helped me get prepared once i was current. Thank you to all members for keeping it fun and informative which makes each one of us come back here each day just like i would bow to god each day. Thank You.

The most important person in the picture now is Harry Reid - he decides when (or if) HR-3012 comes up for Senate vote if and when HR-3012 is passed by the house. It does seem like if the bill came up for a vote then it will pass. Perhaps we need to get ready for some kind of letter/petition/call campaign to put pressure on Dem leadership to put 3012 to a Senate vote after the House vote is done.

It would be a bad idea to prefer AGREE Act instead of HR-3012. AGREE has a lot more politics behind it and has a higher probability of stalling.

My only prayer at this time is the Dems in Senate should not say that any "immigration" should be CIR! the chances are very low.. but just rolling the sleeves and thinking that it can be other view points! Need to concentrate on Senators more now! Especially Key Senators

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Originally Posted by sportsfan33

Thanks everyone.

Here is my summary then:

1. The bill S1857 is just a red herring. HR 3012 is the real deal.
2. AGREE act is not what we are pinning our hopes on.
3. We anticipate victory in the Senate without filibuster if the bill was brought to vote on the Senate floor.
4. We think that too much publicity in the social media at this point is only going to hurt this bill. Our campaign must be very targeted preferably resulting in meetings with our state Senators.
5. We should all know Harry Reid and dig up dirt on him so we can blackmail him to bring this bill up for vote ASAP.

Happy holidays everyone.

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No need to do # 5. We need to convince him with the help of fellow Senators.

It's up for a vote!!! 29th Nov at 6:30 pm. Looking forward to passage.

Nothing is sure when it comes to a legislation. People in know are always cautious. Everybody else is just uninformed. Senate path is actually very tough.

The Tuesday vote will really impact COs decision making for the next VB.

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Originally Posted by vizcard

The Tuesday vote will really impact COs decision making for the next VB.

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I don't think he's going to let 3012 affect anything until it is signed into law by Obama.

Agree. Besides he is already covered for next 6-8 months from backlog perspective. The likelihood of 2012 SOFAD being bigger than the backlog at the end of Sep 2012 is quite low IMO.

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Originally Posted by Pedro Gonzales

I don't think he's going to let 3012 affect anything until it is signed into law by Obama.

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Originally Posted by longgcque

Thanks KD. Based on Aman's note it is expected to pass with 90% majority. Lets hope it sails thru. I did my part by contacting all NE congressman's and they all Republicans.

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I believe Aman is bluffing. 90% sounds too good to be true. IMHO its just to encourage people to contribute. These days no issue has such unanimous support, let alone for HR 3012

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Originally Posted by belmontboy

I believe Aman is bluffing. 90% sounds too good to be true. IMHO its just to encourage people to contribute. These days no issue has such unanimous support, let alone for HR 3012

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I too agree. 90% is asking too much. But i do feel it should pass comfortably in the House. Senate is going to be a challenge.

I don't think reaching 90% + support is that tough if you have every caucus on board in support of non controversial bills like 3012 (which has zero $ impact and zero increase/decrease in visa number).

Also IMHO people don't just start donating after seeing 90%....they would donate even if it scheduled..90% is just to show it has close to zero opposition.

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Originally Posted by belmontboy

I believe Aman is bluffing. 90% sounds too good to be true. IMHO its just to encourage people to contribute. These days no issue has such unanimous support, let alone for HR 3012

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Wait and watch for now. Two more days to go. Anti-HR3012s have already thrown in the white flag, it seems. But they are gearing up with their false data and dubious arguments and their letters to Senators.

Before house judiciary committee hearing, ** claimed only 2 members will oppose the bill. It was proved true. The bill cleared judiciary committee with a voice vote. Voice vote is seen as an "unanimous support" in house and senate proceedings.

I hope the bill clears the house with ease...
I hope the bill clears the senate too...
I hope I'll be able to file for adjustment this fiscal year...
I hope i'll be able to go to India with peace of mind...
I hope. I hope. I hope....
Hope is definately a good thing, may be the best of the things. And no good thing ever dies.... :)

Who's volunteering to watch CSpan to get the info real time. I'm in a hotel so it's unlikely that I'll have CSpan

I don't know if anyone here noticed/posted about d change in d Calendar.. but now it seems like 3012 is the first one in the list. If i am not wrong, last week it was third in the list.
FYI, i am not sure if they follow the order of the list from Cantor's site for debate/vote. I hope they do.
http://majorityleader.gov/Floor/

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Originally Posted by jackbrown_890

I don't know if anyone here noticed/posted about d change in d Calendar.. but now it seems like 3012 is the first one in the list. If i am not wrong, last week it was third in the list.
FYI, i am not sure if they follow the order of the list from Cantor's site for debate/vote. I hope they do.
http://majorityleader.gov/Floor/

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I just noticed on weekly schedule it was listed 3rd and on daily schedule for 29th it is listed first. Last week, daily schedule wasn't available.
http://majorityleader.gov/floor/weekly.html

Another thing I noticed on Jason's twitter feed posted by Eric Cantor: (on twitter on 23rd of Nov.)
"Eric Cantor - .@JasonintheHouse legislation (HR 3012) will help ensure America remains the world's most innovative economy in the years & decades ahead"

Cantor also twitted:
"Next week, the House will vote on legislation by @jasoninthehouse (HR 3012) which will improve the process for highly skilled immigrants."

I think it is a foregone conclusion that 3012 will pass the house. All the news leading up to tomorrow's vote has been positive. Nobody has tried to create an issue out of it. It is under suspension of rules etc etc. It will happen tomorrow.

I am concerned about Senate. The Immigration Sub-Committee of the Senate Judicial Committee is the key. Many senators there are from states that have congressmen as co-sponsors of HR-3012 (Shumer NY, Feinstein CA, Durbin IL, Cornyn TX, Hatch UT) - hopefully they will have some influence on the senators. Republicans are in support it seems and it will depend upon first Chuck Shumer to bring the bill up for discussion and then turning one or more democrats in the committee to vote for the bill. After that it will be up to Harry Reid to bring the bill to vote in the Senate. We will make significant progress tomorrow - but a lot more work still remains to be done.

So, does this mean that it will be up for a vote before 6:30 pm?

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Originally Posted by jackbrown_890

I just noticed on weekly schedule it was listed 3rd and on daily schedule for 29th it is listed first. Last week, daily schedule wasn't available.
http://majorityleader.gov/floor/weekly.html

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No - all votes in the house on Tue are scheduled for after 6:30pm. They will follow the order of the bills - but it might be around 7-7.30pm before the vote actually takes place.

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Originally Posted by essenel

So, does this mean that it will be up for a vote before 6:30 pm?

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Today's scheduled vote is a big deal but not yet the destination where we want to reach. We all need to keep ploughing and keep urging other EB2&3 I&C folks to come aboard, make them aware of this legislation, make sure they donate money and time, that they are prepared to make calls when asked etc.

Steeper hills await us after this. Senate is going to be really hard. If certain amendments get attached to the bill in Senate then House may kill it. So we all need to vigilant.

Getting to the finish line is very important. Do not let your guard down till we cross it.

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Originally Posted by kd2008

Today's scheduled vote is a big deal but not yet the destination where we want to reach. We all need to keep ploughing and keep urging other EB2&3 I&C folks to come aboard, make them aware of this legislation, make sure they donate money and time, that they are prepared to make calls when asked etc.

Steeper hills await us after this. Senate is going to be really hard. If certain amendments get attached to the bill in Senate then House may kill it. So we all need to vigilant.

Getting to the finish line is very important. Do not let your guard down till we cross it.

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I completely agree. I see too much optimism (which isn't bad) and too much certainty in some messages I read here/trackitt/etc. We are getting satisfied and complacent and the other side is picking up speed. They are now asking for folks to get together and make calls to the senator (coz they too have kinda given up on the bill being passed in the house) and even the small stuff like voting on popvox/opencongress.

Both enthusiasm and fear have a snowball effect. Don't assume that they'll just sit there and complain with nonsensical (un)facts. They can spread enough confusion and false notions that some senators may just back off purely for political reasons.

EVEN AFTER THE BILL PASSES TODAY (which is NOT a given), please don't go out and celebrate. Today's passing (if at all) means NOTHING as far as law is concerned. It is immediately after the passing that we need to get our acts together, start calling the senators over a span of days, etc.

And using one form or another, if you see a message on a message board/news site/etc, that misleads the reader into how bad 3012 is, take it as your job to counter that message with facts... not how this bill effects you personally... but with facts about how it helps USA.

Good luck!

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Originally Posted by manubhai

I completely agree. I see too much optimism (which isn't bad) and too much certainty in some messages I read here/trackitt/etc. We are getting satisfied and complacent and the other side is picking up speed. They are now asking for folks to get together and make calls to the senator (coz they too have kinda given up on the bill being passed in the house) and even the small stuff like voting on popvox/opencongress.

Both enthusiasm and fear have a snowball effect. Don't assume that they'll just sit there and complain with nonsensical (un)facts. They can spread enough confusion and false notions that some senators may just back off purely for political reasons.

EVEN AFTER THE BILL PASSES TODAY (which is NOT a given), please don't go out and celebrate. Today's passing (if at all) means NOTHING as far as law is concerned. It is immediately after the passing that we need to get our acts together, start calling the senators over a span of days, etc.

And using one form or another, if you see a message on a message board/news site/etc, that misleads the reader into how bad 3012 is, take it as your job to counter that message with facts... not how this bill effects you personally... but with facts about how it helps USA.

Good luck!

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Agreed completely. Although the path taken by this bill till now is very encouraging, the political angle of it is very scary. Irrespective of the facts and what this bill does when it becomes law, I feel scared when I think that Senate is owned by Democrats and this bill has been introduced by republicans. If at all it has an easy passage in house it is only because Republicans own the house. Now when it comes to Senate passing it, I just hope Democrats won't feel that if this bill becomes a law the republicans will walk away with all the honors. I hope that a political reason alone will not become a potential reason for democrats to create a problem or slow down this bill in the Senate. Fingers crossed. And we need to do our best to get this through!!!

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Originally Posted by feedmyback

Agreed completely. Although the path taken by this bill till now is very encouraging, the political angle of it is very scary. Irrespective of the facts and what this bill does when it becomes law, I feel scared when I think that Senate is owned by Democrats and this bill has been introduced by republicans. If at all it has an easy passage in house it is only because Republicans own the house. Now when it comes to Senate passing it, I just hope Democrats won't feel that if this bill becomes a law the republicans will walk away with all the honors. I hope that a political reason alone will not become a potential reason for democrats to create a problem or slow down this bill in the Senate. Fingers crossed. And we need to do our best to get this through!!!

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We're reading too much into the bill, I think. This is too insignificant a bill to sway voters one way or the other. Republicans may say, 'we've done our part for immigration', but no voter is going to buy that argument. From the perspective of the legislators, this bill is squarely targeting their business donors and no one else. For that same reason, I don't think the Dems will scuttle the bill in the senate. My fear is that this bill just stays under the radar in the senate and is never brought to a vote, or as sportsfan says, gets pushed out to next year and into the middle of the election cycle. That's why we'll need to get on the phones and mobilize all the grassroots support we can muster.

I don't believe in the argument "it is going to be difficult in Senate". First of all, it is a bipartisan bill -- the key point. Lawmakers don't vote for this on partyline. Both democrats and republicans support this bill. Hispanic caucus supports this, black caucus supports this, pro-business support this, pro-family supports this, Latinos support this, Indians support this, Chinese support this. I don't see a reason why this bill will fail in senate. If it were to fail, it would have failed in house judiciary committee itself. Today house is expected to pass this bill with 90% or more votes. My common sense says if it passes with a 90% vote in house, it will clear senate also with a similar majority. House reps and senate reps represent the same geographical areas. So the senate outcome should be similar.

As for the argument that this bill will be difficult to pass in January. I don't think it will be an issue to get this passed in January as it is a bipartisan bill.

I would recommend not posting feedback about a particular senator's stand in public forum. If needed, Q could create a private thread which will be accessible only to limited members or could use the private messaging feature of the forum.

Download Android app by Sunlight Foundation for real time updates regarding HR 3012. This app is called "Congress" in the Android Marketplace. Bill information is provided by GovTrack through the Library of Congress. As per the latest update on this app on my phone, HR 3012 will be voted at 6.30PM.

I think the bill will pass senate *if* brought to the floor for voting. But I always worry about other events overshawdoing such "smaller" bills e.g. another economic shock due to Euro collapse....or Israel attacking Iran which shocks the world economy...or may be i am just being paranoid ;-)

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Originally Posted by jackbrown_890

It seems like 3012 will be the first one at 4 P.M.
C-Span video says - Next: U.S. House Skilled Foreign Worker Visas LIVE 4 PM ET

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yeah, I'm tuned into it as well. Good luck to all.

WATCH HERE:

http://www.c-span.org/Live-Video/C-SPAN/

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Originally Posted by gcq

Chafetz introducing our bill.

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Yes. Listening in C-SPAN Radio. Download iPhone app CSPAN