Birth Certificate Related

Imdeng, I had somewhat similar issues to yours and after a lot of research and references from Ron's blogs, came to a conclusion that getting correct BC with names/dates etc is of no value if birth registered date is not within 1 year of actual birth(or may be 2 yrs). Instead, I got Non availability of birth certificate from local municipality, affidavits from parents, school records etc to prove BC. No rfe's so far on BC.

Now, I have recd 2nd rfe for EVL and 693.

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Originally Posted by sreddy

Imdeng,

Unless your parents registered your birth back then, registering birth now, and getting BC will not have any value add to your case (BC has two dates, Birth Registered date, and BC issue date). I took that pain registering, paying penalties, etc. Finally law firm said no to that BC, and asked me to provide affidavit from my parents, and two or three other proofs from India that are old and Govt./Educational institution issued. I used my 10th grade marks card (it has my Date of birth, and my name, and my father's name in right spelling), and PAN card issued by Indian TAX office. Key here is that you produce two to three old evidences that has your name, and your fathers' name in right spelling, and correct date of birth according to your passport. Based on my experience, iff you can get those, you will not need BC anymore.

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Imdeng, I agree with sreddy. Birth Certificate affidavits are more than enough. Why do you think you may receive another BC related RFE ?

Thanks sreddy for the response. I do have currently several secondary evidence (school leaving cert etc) and affidavit from parents submitted. My impression is that one needs either a BC or a NABC to begin with - in case of NABC or if the BC is late registered - then one needs secondary evidence plus affidavits etc. It will be great if I am mistaken and Secondary Evidence + Affidavits would be sufficient with a late registered BC or a NABC.

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Originally Posted by sreddy

Imdeng,

Unless your parents registered your birth back then, registering birth now, and getting BC will not have any value add to your case (BC has two dates, Birth Registered date, and BC issue date). I took that pain registering, paying penalties, etc. Finally law firm said no to that BC, and asked me to provide affidavit from my parents, and two or three other proofs from India that are old and Govt./Educational institution issued. I used my 10th grade marks card (it has my Date of birth, and my name, and my father's name in right spelling), and PAN card issued by Indian TAX office. Key here is that you produce two to three old evidences that has your name, and your fathers' name in right spelling, and correct date of birth according to your passport. Based on my experience, iff you can get those, you will not need BC anymore.

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Kanmani - shouldn't there be a Non-Availability of Birth Certificate (NABC) to accompany the Affidavits? My impression was that they are essential. I have not received an RFE - I assumed that they will ask for a NABC if there is no original BC or a late registered BC.

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Originally Posted by Kanmani

Imdeng, I agree with sreddy. Birth Certificate affidavits are more than enough. Why do you think you may receive another BC related RFE ?

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I was trying to go to NABC route - but the agency figured they can get a late registered BC - which they did. But now that there is a BC in my name - I am not sure I can get a NABC.

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Originally Posted by longgcque

Imdeng, I had somewhat similar issues to yours and after a lot of research and references from Ron's blogs, came to a conclusion that getting correct BC with names/dates etc is of no value if birth registered date is not within 1 year of actual birth(or may be 2 yrs). Instead, I got Non availability of birth certificate from local municipality, affidavits from parents, school records etc to prove BC. No rfe's so far on BC.

Now, I have recd 2nd rfe for EVL and 693.

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Originally Posted by imdeng

I was trying to go to NABC route - but the agency figured they can get a late registered BC - which they did. But now that there is a BC in my name - I am not sure I can get a NABC.

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imdeng
I would go with the BC you have and get a new affidavit to also include the address issue in it. As you say, NABC is not an option. Include the secondary evidence (school leaving certificate, etc.). Remember this, as bad as record keeping is in India, people have gotten their green cards.

Also, I truly believe that the BC is more of an issue for FB green cards . It makes no sense to ding an EB application for a BC that's not perfect (particularly address). You are obviously born, your passport and visa have your birth date on it, you have a job and your employer sponsored you for that job. In the FB category, generally you are trying to prove that you are related to someone or vice versa and BCs are useful for that.

My 2 cents :)

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Originally Posted by vizcard

imdeng
I would go with the BC you have and get a new affidavit to also include the address issue in it. As you say, NABC is not an option. Include the secondary evidence (school leaving certificate, etc.). Remember this, as bad as record keeping is in India, people have gotten their green cards.

Also, I truly believe that the BC is more of an issue for FB green cards . It makes no sense to ding an EB application for a BC that's not perfect (particularly address). You are obviously born, your passport and visa have your birth date on it, you have a job and your employer sponsored you for that job. In the FB category, generally you are trying to prove that you are related to someone or vice versa and BCs are useful for that.

My 2 cents :)

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Viz what you say makes complete sense. Being born in India for EB purposes is akin to claiming the least advantaged position anyway. Based on my own experience its always better to have a BC and supplement with affidavits or other documentation. I guess the adjudicator's sole objective here is to verify the country of birth and as long as they have something to go with in case of EB - India it should be fine, if it’s some other country that can put you on a fast track it would warrant more investigation, for example cross changeability cases. Additionally in many cases BC RFE's have been resolved by sending the same documentation again, some lawyers have explained that the cause was that 3 sets of this information needs to be sent one each for ead/ap and 485 applications.

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Originally Posted by imdeng

Kanmani - shouldn't there be a Non-Availability of Birth Certificate (NABC) to accompany the Affidavits? My impression was that they are essential. I have not received an RFE - I assumed that they will ask for a NABC if there is no original BC or a late registered BC.

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I have come across people sending BC affidavits (parents + relatives) alone and passed. My opinion is that having been passed the pre-adjudicated stage, you will not be asked for another bc related RFE. Thathasthu!

Kanmani/Teddy/Viz - Many thanks for your thoughtful replies. I am somewhat relieved. I am just risk-averse when it comes to documentation. I am going to keep these posts around for couple more hours and then clean up to the BC thread.

I will keep my fingers crossed for not getting an RFE. If I do get one then I will send the BC (unless I can get it corrected - that process is going on) and an explanation of why the address details don't match completely.

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Originally Posted by imdeng

Kanmani/Teddy/Viz - Many thanks for your thoughtful replies. I am somewhat relieved. I am just risk-averse when it comes to documentation. I am going to keep these posts around for couple more hours and then clean up to the BC thread.

I will keep my fingers crossed for not getting an RFE. If I do get one then I will send the BC (unless I can get it corrected - that process is going on) and an explanation of why the address details don't match completely.

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Deng,

Trust me, one in two Indians have BC related issues like different name, different date, different place etc. If USCIS starts pounding all of them for solid evidence, then there would not be any Indian with GC in US. So (in my very personal opinion), any evidence to prove that you are born in India would suffice. This is also partly wishful thinking since I have BC issues similar to yours too.

Iatiam

P.S: My PD is a week after yours it will be interesting to see how the whole scenario evolves this year.

Hi Guys

Positing my question here to appropiate thread. Any help guidance on BC clarity is appreciated.

Primary: I have a birth certificate issued in punjabi and its birth registration date (feb 1977) is 30 days of actual birth date (jan 1977). But the certificate was printed stamped and issued to me only 2008. Other than translation of this certificate, do we have to do anything else?

Spouse: Bith certificate is in punjabi and registered in 2008 but actual birth date in 1977. The birth certificate was printed , stamped and issued in 2008. Is late registration an issue here.

What do I have to do to my certificates and spouse certificate to make it acceptable to USCIS

Please let me know. Thanks in advance.

Hi Spec, Q, and others

Can someone please respond to above questions. I moved my post to this thread according to recommendation and believe this thread is not very active.

Thanks in advance.

Your BC meets the criteria for primary evidence, your spouse's does not. You need secondary evidence for your spouse - School Leaving Certificate, anything else that has DOB, parents name, place of birth etc. Further, tertiary evidence - essentially 2-3 affidavits from parents or others who were present at the time of the birth is recommended to support the secondary evidence.

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Originally Posted by rs3533

Hi Guys

Positing my question here to appropiate thread. Any help guidance on BC clarity is appreciated.

Primary: I have a birth certificate issued in punjabi and its birth registration date (feb 1977) is 30 days of actual birth date (jan 1977). But the certificate was printed stamped and issued to me only 2008. Other than translation of this certificate, do we have to do anything else?

Spouse: Bith certificate is in punjabi and registered in 2008 but actual birth date in 1977. The birth certificate was printed , stamped and issued in 2008. Is late registration an issue here.

What do I have to do to my certificates and spouse certificate to make it acceptable to USCIS

Please let me know. Thanks in advance.

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Thanks imdeng

Any advice on best way to get BC translated?

There are several reputed translators - some specialize in USCIS work - google around and you should find them. They are not very expensive and IMO worth the cost.

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Originally Posted by rs3533

Thanks imdeng

Any advice on best way to get BC translated?

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Hi Nishant,
Could you or others help me?

My original birth certificate was given to my school and a very hard-to-read copy exists. The birth certificate questions are in English and Hindi ( date of birth, place of birth etc). The parents' names and address are written in Hindi. Name of child is not mentioned. Registration date is not visible.

Would two affidavits from my parents and copy of passport page and school leaving certificate be enough?

What should the affidavit say? I saw several samples for missing name etc but in this case there are two problems: The details are in Hindi and the name of the child is not there.

Thanks,
Khazs

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Originally Posted by nishant2200

I-485 Instructions

Initial Evidence section

2. Birth Certificate

Submit a copy of your foreign birth certificate or other record of your birth that meets
the provisions of secondary evidence found in Title 8, Code of Federal Regulations (CFR), 103.2(b)(2).

This law is at:
http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/text...0.1.2.6&idno=8

Go to section 103.2(b)(2) in this law document.

(2) Submitting secondary evidence and affidavits —(i) General. The non-existence or other unavailability of required evidence creates a presumption of ineligibility. If a required document, such as a birth or marriage certificate, does not exist or cannot be obtained, an applicant or petitioner must demonstrate this and submit secondary evidence, such as church or school records, pertinent to the facts at issue. If secondary evidence also does not exist or cannot be obtained, the applicant or petitioner must demonstrate the unavailability of both the required document and relevant secondary evidence, and submit two or more affidavits, sworn to or affirmed by persons who are not parties to the petition who have direct personal knowledge of the event and circumstances. Secondary evidence must overcome the unavailability of primary evidence, and affidavits must overcome the unavailability of both primary and secondary evidence.

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There are other interesting things to read too in this law document around this text area and below for further points like non-availability, translations and so on.

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So there are a few posts in this thread just below about my BC issue. After 7 years from original 485 filing and no RFE for BC, I had assumed that that ship has sailed. But USCIS is ever vigilant - today I got an RFE for BC :-(

I had originally submitted two affidavits, a 10th certificate and two School Leaving Certificates. I got a late registration of birth done after 485 submission that has not been submitted to USCIS as yet. Need to figure what to send in the RFE Response. Just got in touch with my employer's attorney and helpfully my employer is supporting my response process through the attorney.

I need wisdom of the group here - help me with your thoughts and experiences. You can get details of my situation in posts below. Essentially, I did get a late registration of birth but this document has my parents current address as the place of birth rather than the address at the time of birth (same city, just different addresses). I am not sure whether submitting this document will help matters. Other than this I don't know what else I can do. Any thoughts?

From what I remember, one can simply have parents make an affidavit about your birth and that was acceptable in lieu of a proper birth certificate. I do not know if that has changed now.

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Originally Posted by imdeng

So there are a few posts in this thread just below about my BC issue. After 7 years from original 485 filing and no RFE for BC, I had assumed that that ship has sailed. But USCIS is ever vigilant - today I got an RFE for BC :-(

I had originally submitted two affidavits, a 10th certificate and two School Leaving Certificates. I got a late registration of birth done after 485 submission that has not been submitted to USCIS as yet. Need to figure what to send in the RFE Response. Just got in touch with my employer's attorney and helpfully my employer is supporting my response process through the attorney.

I need wisdom of the group here - help me with your thoughts and experiences. You can get details of my situation in posts below. Essentially, I did get a late registration of birth but this document has my parents current address as the place of birth rather than the address at the time of birth (same city, just different addresses). I am not sure whether submitting this document will help matters. Other than this I don't know what else I can do. Any thoughts?

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I don't think it even has to be parents although this is preferable. Anybody older than the applicant like an older sibling, uncle or aunt who can reasonably attest to the birth can do this.

Well - we did send two affidavits and still got an RFE - so seems like there is need for more.

To imdeng

What is the problem with the original affidavit? Is there an issue with the content or the format if I may ask? Was there a problem with the notarization?

None that I know. Its the standard affidavit. The RFE does not mention any specific issue.

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Originally Posted by gs1968

To imdeng

What is the problem with the original affidavit? Is there an issue with the content or the format if I may ask? Was there a problem with the notarization?

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To imdeng
Is it because you have not submitted a non availability of birth certificate? I always thought that an affidavit of birth is only if a birth certificate is not available. I am not sure what your place of birth is but the Chennai corporation has an online database where all the birthday are digitized and can he downloaded and printed without need to attest. If your birthplace is another town there are concierge services in India which will do the legwork for you for a fixed fee

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Originally Posted by imdeng

None that I know. Its the standard affidavit. The RFE does not mention any specific issue.

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I suspect that the problem may be related to not providing evidence that the primary evidence was not available, since you don't mention including it.

If primary evidence is not available, then proof must be included of that fact before secondary evidence can be considered. Similarly, if primary and secondary evidence is not available than proof of that needs to be established before tertiary evidence can be considered.

To amplify and expand what nishant said in post #416:

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(2) Submitting secondary evidence and affidavits -

(i) General.

The non-existence or other unavailability of required evidence creates a presumption of ineligibility. If a required document, such as a birth or marriage certificate, does not exist or cannot be obtained, an applicant or petitioner must demonstrate this and submit secondary evidence, such as church or school records, pertinent to the facts at issue. If secondary evidence also does not exist or cannot be obtained, the applicant or petitioner must demonstrate the unavailability of both the required document and relevant secondary evidence, and submit two or more affidavits, sworn to or affirmed by persons who are not parties to the petition who have direct personal knowledge of the event and circumstances. Secondary evidence must overcome the unavailability of primary evidence, and affidavits must overcome the unavailability of both primary and secondary evidence.

(ii) Demonstrating that a record is not available.

Where a record does not exist, the applicant or petitioner must submit an original written statement on government letterhead establishing this from the relevant government or other authority. The statement must indicate the reason the record does not exist, and indicate whether similar records for the time and place are available. However, a certification from an appropriate foreign government that a document does not exist is not required where the Department of State's Foreign Affairs Manual indicates this type of document generally does not exist. An applicant or petitioner who has not been able to acquire the necessary document or statement from the relevant foreign authority may submit evidence that repeated good faith attempts were made to obtain the required document or statement. However, where USCIS finds that such documents or statements are generally available, it may require that the applicant or petitioner submit the required document or statement.

https://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/text-id...5#se8.1.103_12

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You've either been unlucky, or USCIS are enforcing these regulations more stringently. Previously, it appears many people had secondary evidence accepted where they had not properly established (per the regulations) that the primary evidence was not available.

I do not know enough about the documentation to know whether your later acquired registration would be sufficient.

Good luck.

Thanks Spec and gs1968 - You both are correct - I did not include an NABC in the original filing and I suspect that is what triggered the RFE.

I am waiting for the lawyer to suggest a way forward. As you say Spec, it seems I have been unlucky here - but we gotta do what we gotta do - yet another hoop to jump.

I have never done the NBAC but I think the only problem is the speed of how things move in India it might take a while. Somebody I knew used Yourmaninindia and seemed to work. But if you have relatives in your town of birth they can also start the work on this while the lawyer response is pending

To imdeng
Not to labor the point but I wanted to add one more thought to the above discussion. The NABC is only if the birth was not registered or the original records are lost and cannot be retrieved successfully. A more familiar problem weface is when the BC is not in the format desired by the USCIS. Typically this is when the father's or mother's name is not in the traditional first name/last name format and uses initials as is common in South India. I faced a similar situation when I applied recently for my mother's green card. As noted in my previous post I was fortunate that someone had registered her birth in Chennai almost 75 years ago and was available on the corporation website for download although containing nowhere near the details required by USCIS. I had run into a problem with my own GC application with the birth certificate many years ago and needed an affidavit which my parents provided. At that time anticipating a future need my mother had a birth affidavit prepared by her mother before she passed away. When I submitted my mother's GC application I attached the original BC I had downloaded and also sent in the affidavit with a cover letter explaining the reason that the birth certificate did not meet USCIS standards. I think this avoided an RFE. I think you mentioned that your birth was registered late but if you have even a barebones registration at the time if birth you can retrieve you can send in with the RFE

Many thanks for your thoughtful replies gs1968. Unfortunately, no registration was made at the time of birth - so its either a late registration (with an address issue) or an NABC.

Anybody has any recommendation for agencies in India for expediting the process. I have used YourManInIndia before but found them to be very slow. Looking for other options.

I used alliedlegalonline several years back to get the NABC from a city where no one in family lived any longer. They got my parents to sign some affidavits affirming that I was born there. Looks like they got some local lawyer in that city to do the rest and get the NABC. Now a days there are more companies that provide such services and also expedite them for extra fee. If you have contacts in that city where you were born, you can also get someone go there are talk to a lawyer who can get it for a fee. In India usually small time lawyers help getting mariage, birth certificates etc. or they can go directly to registrar of births there and get it yourself.

Thanks for all the response. Here is an update on the case.

My lawyer was comfortable responding to the RFE with the late registered BC. She resubmitted all the affidavits etc that was in the original submission. RFE is thus responded. Hope that's all there is to it.