So if house passes H R 3012 and Senate passes this senate version (S. 1857), let us assume at a similar time, then will there still be a need for H.R 3012 to go to Senate or the only thing pending would be the Signature of President to make it a law? I am having difficulty to understand the simultaneous bills in House and Senate and how they would contribute together...
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If you look at the bills summary in the thomas library, if there is any similar version of the House bill in the Senate, I mean to say exactly the same version, then there is no need to be considered in the respective houses one more time . This holds true for both house and Senate version.
On the contrary if there is any additional amendment which is diff from the other version , then each bill has to go through every step in both the houses.
I think i somewhat explained, hope it is clear.
Here is a link
Q:”What happens to an approved Senate bill with respect to an identical House bill? If the House version is defeated, does the bill end?”
http://www.govtrack.us/blog/2008/10/...-bill-die-too/
dreamer thanks for the link . This webpage of the clerk is updated only after the house activity is completed, it is minute by minute update .
Quote:
Originally Posted by dreamer
Thanks Kanmani,
I got it now :)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kanmani
Thanks gcq,
The article is very informative and adds to what kanmani explained.
Quote:
Originally Posted by gcq
Great news about the bill being introduced in the Senate.
Apart from getting your list of senators' phone number ready (to make those twenty second calls), I urge the readers to take a few moments and vote for it on PopVox and OpenCongress just as you all did for HR 3012.
Please note that this time around, the voices AGAINST these bills are much louder. It is even more important for us to do the little we can (as opposed to just talking about it here on the board).
POPVOX: https://www.popvox.com/bills/us/112/s1857
OpenCongress: http://www.opencongress.org/bill/112-s1857/show
And in case you missed voting for HR 3012 earlier, please do so now.
POPVOX: https://www.popvox.com/bills/us/112/hr3012
OpenCongress: http://www.opencongress.org/bill/112-h3012/show
Please... "DO" the little you can to support this bill.
Thank you!
Done.
This is certainly good news. But tons of work still to do. All hands on deck!
Just had a doubt. Read somewhere that introducing a similar bill in both senate and house is a tactic to kill the bill. Is this true?Quote:
Originally Posted by Pedro Gonzales
Does having a similar bill in senate make it more likable to pass or less. Also if passed which will actually pass and is the new senate bill the exact duplicate of the house bill 3012 and if not then what are the differences.
Sorry the questions came out in a gush.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------Quote:
Originally Posted by PlainSpeak
Floor Action
Once a committee has approved legislation, it becomes eligible for debate on the House and Senate floors, where it may be passed, defeated or amended. Because floor debates often are scheduled on short notice, you should prepare your messages (e.g. e-mails, letters etc.) well in advance. However, keep in mind that timing is extremely critical. Any communications about legislation that is coming up for floor debate should arrive as close to the time of voting as possible.
Conference Action
It is usually the case that the House and Senate pass different versions of the same bill. When that occurs, a handful of members from each chamber are appointed to serve on a conference committee that attempts to work out a compromise. A conference committee usually consists of selected members of the House and Senate subcommittees that originally developed the legislation. In some instances, conference committees may need to resolve only a few issues; in the case of appropriations bills, there may be several hundred to be reconciled. Constituents whose senators or representatives happen to be on a conference committee can play a crucial role in the deliberations.
The end product of the meetings is a conference report containing a compromise bill and a section-by-section explanation of the agreed-upon compromise. Once both the House and Senate agree to the conference report, the measure is sent to the President for approval (or veto).
Read More here
http://www.aacom.org/advocacy/congre...s/default.aspx
Good Luck to all...
Bills before 3012 under Judiciary committee - H.R. 10 and H.R. 822 both were ordered to be reported on 25th of last month and they have been reported on Thursday. So i am hoping 3012 report will be out soon. Hopefully this week.
Thanks immitime for the info. It looks like you are very knowlegeble regarding the the complete process a bill goes through. Good to have you on this forum which is about calrity about the processQuote:
Originally Posted by immitime
Thank You for appreciation, I have seen your posts, You think for everyone, there is no onesided thing in your post for the whole immigrant community, I have seen lot of people writing against you in other forums. Again, I was not knowing the legislative process until last year when a EB immigration bill came to Congress/Senate.Quote:
Originally Posted by PlainSpeak
Necessity is the mother of invention! :-) As some one said a Genius is a Genius until the source is discovered! is it not :-)
Hope all of us EB immigrants will comeout of this big hole soon! Praying for the good of all.
If by this " I have seen lot of people writing against you in other forums" you mean ** then yes i guess i am unpopular there. Funny thing is i got banned there last year but when i checked it looks like the ban is lifted but i feel no need to register and post on ** again because it is not worth it.Quote:
Originally Posted by immitime
Keep up the good work !!!!! You knowledge is very much needed in todays environment
Between Senators Lee and Rubio the right wing of the Republican party senators seem to be firmly in support of ending caps. The idea seems to be gaining some traction in general. Good news, in my opinion. Thanks for keeping us up to date Kanmani.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kanmani
And Chris Coons is a moderate Democrat. So, it has that support too. I keep getting more optimistic about this every day.
This is a great bill.
Good thing about this bill: It is bi-partisan and both parties agree on most of the stuff in the bill
bad thing: my only concern is, adding stuff to 3012 will add to the length of the process of passing the bill since it will go back and forth between house and senate to compromise on added stuff plus details and language. They agree on general Idea, doesn't mean they agree on intricate details or language of the bill. (i guess that is part of politics) Next year is election year so i am hoping this becomes law before the end of first quarter of 2012 or sooner.
I would like to see- H.R. 3012 and S.1857 - stand alone bills (first step) without any other added baggage (unless it is recapture or 50000 diversity visas diverted to EB - current SAFE Act eliminates diversity visa program) to it since there is a proven support to these bills from both parties. (we still need democrat senate member to co-sponsor S.1857)
I don't prefer Rubio's bill as it has other components to it that can invite partisan politics into it. Not sure whether it will ever gain steam. Remember there are scores of other bills out there none of which has gained steam.
Most favorable aspect of Rubios bill is Latinos are seeing the benefit that HR 3012 provisions brings to family based immigrants. If we can spread this message to regular gc holders and citizens ( both FB and EB ), we can get even more support.
From my side I have started talking to some of my citizen friends about this bill and they seem to be excited. Most of the citizens will have someone stuck up in FB queue. I am also planning to prepare a letter on behalf of these citizens and ask them to send it to their senators/congressman.
http://www.sacbee.com/2011/11/15/405...-senators.html : Rubio/Coons are trying to roll HR-3012 into a new AGREE Act.
I am not sure how much to read into this. Surely, this shows that there is Latino support because of the FB provisions, which is vital for passing this. However, HR-3012 (or its Senate counterpart) was a very clean bill, while the AGREE Bill has a lot of other provisions which might make it more difficult. Anyways - the main fight is not in the house but in the Senate - so its good to see Senators moving on it. Still - this muddies the waters a little bit.
More details on the AGREE Act: http://www.rubio.senate.gov/public/i...-the-agree-act
Most of the provisions seem not too controversial. Democrats might balk at Republicans cherry-picking part of President's Jobs Plan. At the same time, since its a "Jobs Bill" - lawmakers will be less likely to oppose it in the current economic climate. FWIW - the bill is bi-partisan as Coons is a Dem Senator.
Senator Coons website is positioning EB part of AGREE Act as: "it reduces the barriers preventing highly skilled workers who have studied here from staying here." - I think this is a good line to take but gives the subtle impression that the provision will allow more legal immigration than the current setup - which is not true.
Good article on CNN about the AGREE Act: http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com...ce-of-passing/
As I said earlier , this AGREE Act has included already passed stand alone versions of Jobs bills. Eric Cantor, House majority leader last week complained about the Senate sitting over ( not considering) several stand alone job bills passed by the House . ( Stand alone mini bills are portions of Obama's main job bill ).
So in my opinion, even if House version (3012) passes and sent to Senate it will stand as stand alone bill. If 1857 comes out of judiciary, 3012 will be merged with 1857 and then sent for voting.
If Agree Act takes a short route to pass both the houses to become law ( has no controversy so more likely) then the above said bills have no value thereafter.
AGREE Act seems to have some momentum. As far we are concerned, it doesn't matter whether HR3012/S1857/AGREE passes - as long as ONE of them passes BOTH the House and the Senate. Senate is the bottleneck - so a bill that starts in the Senate has a better chance of then passing the House rather than vice-versa. AGREE Act has a lot of steps to cover though - however - they can be leaped over quite fast if there is no major opposition.
I think this probably has more to do with the politics of politics than just... politics.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kanmani
It could be that the senators want to ultimately take credit for the idea behind 3012 once its become law... or it could be that the line in AGREE act (which is the meat of 3012) has been included to get more senators to read and be OK with the concept of elimination of per country cap from EB Immigration - in other words... "I am going to push forward your bill today so that you could push forward mine some other day".
Whatever the scenario may be, at the end of the day, more reps and senators are agreeing with 3012's concept. I am guessing it is immaterial how the law manifests, whether via 3012/1857 or AGREE act, as long as they don't change major aspects of 3012 (like in effect from fiscal 2012, etc).
Regardless of the debate... S.1857 just got one more republican and one more democratic senator to (unofficially) sponsor it. Rest is how politics plays out.
Kanmani, jackbrown, sportsfan, iamdeng, gcq, and Pedro... thanks for being so proactive about this and about bringing the news to the board. Cheers!
Text of S.1857 available now .......http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c112:S.1857:
Friends , can any one please compare and tell us if there is any difference
Yay!Quote:
Originally Posted by sportsfan33
First post here. Hi everyone. :)
Sportsfan, Thank you.
I think the currently available text of 3012 is revised . (Lofgren amendment included right?). Then, this is 100% companion bill.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sportsfan33
If its companion bill then its going in right direction :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Kanmani
PA Republican Congressman Glenn Thompson is also cosponsoring this bill. Now 8 cosponsors, so 9 in all, 5 Repubs, 4 Dems.
Also, I read some posts on trackitt where Senator Hutchinson responded to some folks saying the bill had been put on the House calendar. Do you see it anywhere Kanmani, or did the senator jump the gun a bit?
Two bills are now officially linked as companion bills.
Quote:
Originally Posted by suninphx
Yes- saw that on Trackitt. Great news!Quote:
Originally Posted by imdeng
If you have a moment then please vote for our bills at the site below. No Login necessary - just a simple one click.
http://www.washingtonwatch.com/bills...2_HR_3012.html
http://www.washingtonwatch.com/bills...2_SN_1857.html
You can post comments too - no login needed - just a simple non-robot type-number-in-picture check. Click on "see what people are saying" link for commenting.
Thanks.
Quoting from source http://www.delawarepolitics.net/grou...bio-and-coons/ by David Anderson
""
November 15, 2011 3:33 PM EST
Calls on President Obama to Get Involved in the Discussion
WASHINGTON, Nov. 15, 2011 /PRNewswire-USNewswire/ — The Latino Partnership for Conservative Principles, a leading voice of Latino conservatives, commended U.S. Senators Chris Coons (D-DE) and Marco Rubio (R-FL) for introducing today the American Growth, Recovery, Empowerment and Entrepreneurship Act. The AGREE Act stems from areas of common agreement between the President’s jobs plan, recommendations from the President’s Council on Jobs and Competitiveness, and plans put forward by both parties in Congress and includes a provision which eliminates per country caps on employment based immigrant visas and increases the per country cap for family-based immigrant visas from seven to fifteen percent. This same provision is included in H.R. 3012, the Fairness for High-Skilled Immigrants Act, which was passed unanimously by the House Judiciary Committee recently. H.R. 3012 was introduced by Congressman Jason Chaffetz (R-UT) and is co-sponsored by, among others, House Judiciary Chairman Lamar Smith (R-TX) and Congressman Luis Gutierrez (D-IL).
“The impact of the AGREE Act immigration provision is quite significant. It will go a long way to reduce the enormous immigrant visa backlog that exists for workers from countries like India and China,” said Alfonso Aguilar, Executive Director of the Latino Partnership for Conservative Principles. “This is good news for high-tech American companies who currently have a very hard time recruiting and hiring professionals with advanced degrees from abroad simply because there are no visas available.
“H.R. 3012 will also shorten the wait for immigrant visas for people from countries like Mexico and the Philippines who want to come to the U.S. to be reunited with their families. Under the current per country limits, individuals from certain countries have to wait excessive – and sometimes unrealistic – periods of time for a family-based immigrant visa to become available.
“While President Obama continues to demagogue the immigration issue for political purposes, Senators from both sides of the aisle are actively working on legislation that begins to put our immigration system in order. In the House, H.R. 3012 has brought together members of Congress that normally have opposite views on immigration, from a Lamar Smith to a Luis Gutierrez.
“The latest action by the House Judiciary Committee and now Senator Rubio’s leadership on the issue proves unequivocally that President Obama is not being fair or honest when he accuses Republicans of not wanting to deal with the tough issue of immigration. Ironically, it is the President who has been missing in action from this important policy discussion. We call on Republicans and Democrats in both House and Senate to support this important measure. And we encourage the President to stop grandstanding on immigration and get involved in the discussion of this important policy proposal.”
""
Did anyone notice the new FUD being spread by Jeff on trackitt about live saving physicians not being able to get green cards if this bill passes?
Below is the link from trackit and the letter from Senator.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kanmani
http://www.trackitt.com/usa-discussi...jr-blackcaucus
Dear Friend:
Thank you for contacting me regarding H.R. 3012, the Fairness for High-Skilled Immigrants Act. I welcome your thoughts and comments.
I believe current U.S. immigration law is unsatisfactory in many ways, ranging from continuing illegal immigration to arbitrary limitations on admissions of high-skilled professionals needed by U.S. businesses.
The Immigration and Nationality Act (INA) allocates 140,000 visas annually for employment-based legal permanent residents (LPRs). They made up 14.2% of the total 1 million LPRs in Fiscal Year 2010. The INA also includes an annual, country-specific limit of 7% of total U.S. immigrant admissions, known as per-country limits, or country caps.
On September 22, 2011, Representative Jason Chaffetz (R-UT) introduced H.R. 3012, which would eliminate country-specific numerical restrictions on permanent employment-based admissions. It would also raise the per-country cap on family-based immigration from 7% to 15% over several years.
H.R. 3012 has been placed on the House of Representatives' calendar for legislative action. Should the House pass the bill and send it to the Senate, you may be certain I will keep your views in mind.
I appreciate hearing from you, and I hope that you will not hesitate to contact me on any issue that is important to you.
Sincerely,
Kay Bailey Hutchison
United States Senator
I did. It would be a strong argument if it were true. For those of you who are staying clear of that receptacle of bile, here is the sum of Jeff's argument: Indian PERM is roughly 70% IT, whereas every other country's IT % is much lower. Hence, if Indians get their GCs sooner thanks to HR3012/S1857, IT folk will crowd out doctors who otherwise file in EB2-NIW and would now not do that anymore.Quote:
Originally Posted by whiskeylover
The argument sounds credible but is in fact specious for several reasons,
a) Who is to say that a doctor is more valuable than an IT professional (although at the surface that might seem obvious).
b) If 2 years of additional wait before they get their GC is too much for doctors, I suspect their loyalty towards their profession/employer.
c) There are surely a large % of Indian/Chinese doctors in the EB2-NIW queue (we have a few that contribute to this forum) which may be as large a % of total EB2NIW applicants as Indians are as a % of total IT professionals.
The data to run the analysis for 'c' is here: http://www.flcdatacenter.com/CasePerm.aspx
I don't have access to Access, so I can't open the file to run an analysis.
It is all about percentage. India & China represent a major chunk of world population. For any profession, Indians and Chinese will outnumber ROW applicants. So there is no case for "physicians getting impacted". Sure ROW physicians get impacted but, IC Physicians are benefited. From Physicians perspective, the new law won't discriminate against any physician based on country of birth.
He is trying to come up with different FUDs.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/1...n_1097997.html
H.R. 822 Gun bill passes the house yesterday, This bill also was before 3012 during Judiciary committee hearing, so any chance for 3012 after Thanks Giving Recess.
More support for Legal Immigration reform. Read this news
Bloomberg and Murdoch call for US visa reformBy Anjli Raval in New York
Michael Bloomberg, New York City mayor, joined with Rupert Murdoch and other business leaders on Thursday in calling for the Obama administration to overhaul US immigration policy and shift the discussion away from illegal immigrants and towards business.
The following sentence goes a long way for the support of the bill.
The US government estimates that there are 3m unfilled jobs in the country because of skills shortages, particularly in fields such as science, technology, engineering and mathematics. Many businesses are frustrated with the country’s immigration policy, which they feel hampers their ability to compete and grow as they are in the short term unable to fill these jobs with foreign-born workers.
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/f3a39df4-1...#axzz1e071NiTV
All the best
Good one. It's nice to see both parties wanting to pass something on Immigration. Obama definitely needs one bill to go 'talk' about during elections. Because, with all the talk he did in 2008, there's absolute no action in area.
Whatever that Jeff said is complete non-sense. To counter his argument, I would just give you one example. We had total 22 residents in my batch. Our MD was of 3 years. Out of those 22 physicians, 9 were Indian. Rest were 2 Nepalese, 1 Nigerian, 1 Syrian, 1 South Korean, 1 Philippians, 4 Pakistanis, 1 Russian, 1 Algerian, 1 Iranian. Indian and Chinese Physicians make most of the physicians in EB2 so there is no question of only ROW Physicians being affected. Everyone will be similarly affected.
Someone should draft a letter to the politicians with these numbers. Because the opposing side has started bombarding them with Jeff's argument.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonty Rhodes