Reverse Porting EB2 --> EB3 Discussion

[gcvijay]

Hi Spec\Other experts

I see the filing date being honoured by USCIS and I'm eligible under EB3. I have two options I would appreciate your suggestions\advice on which one is the most preferred and safe option.

1) I have eb2 with current employer. Downgrade current eb2 with current employer and file a concurrent filing of i-140\i-485?

2) My ex employer still has the valid I-140 petition. Reach out to them and continue the filing of application there.

Appreciate your inputs

Thanks
VK

[LASHAB]

https://www.uscis.gov/green-card/green-card-processes-and-procedures/visa-availability-priority-dates/when-file-your-adjustment-status-application-family-sponsored-or-employment-based-preference-visas-october-2018

EB3-I dates are honored by USCIS.

My PD is Jul 2009 for EB2I. Can I file 140 and 485 downgrading to EB3?

[LASHAB]

Ye Gods!!!

It's a miracle!!!

This is only the 6th time in 37 months that Filing Dates for EB have been accepted by USCIS.

Spec

My PD is Jul 2009 for EB2I. Can I file 140 and 485 downgrading to EB3?

[EB3Iwaiting]

https://www.uscis.gov/green-card/green-card-processes-and-procedures/visa-availability-priority-dates/when-file-your-adjustment-status-application-family-sponsored-or-employment-based-preference-visas-october-2018

EB3-I dates are honored by USCIS.

This means that EB3I has now officially surpassed EB2I, at least in October. Let the downward porting begin!!

[AceMan]

This means that EB3I has now officially surpassed EB2I, at least in October. Let the downward porting begin!!

A small matter that you need to spend money for I-140 again, and open yourself for potential additional queries and RFE's all because, you have a chance to get the card 2 minutes earlier. :-D.

People need spices in life.

[EB3Iwaiting]

A small matter that you need to spend money for I-140 again, and open yourself for potential additional queries and RFE's all because, you have a chance to get the card 2 minutes earlier. :-D.

People need spices in life.

EB2 and EB3 China have been doing it for a while now. Never heard that it invited additional queries and RFEs. Also, even though I-140 fees may be paid by employer or employee, most good employers pay for it. Mine paid for my AOS applications too. If someone's employer is ready to do it, why not? So depends on how one views it.

EB2I movement will be very lethargic, so I do not see any harm if anyone with a Sep 09 EB2I PD wants to take advantage of the EB3I PD.

[Tandav]

Spec

My PD is Jul 2009 for EB2I. Can I file 140 and 485 downgrading to EB3?

I would say this for the people with dependent child. As per the CSPA rules, if you file your I-485 based on the 'Filing Date', then the age of the child is not locked where as if you file your I-485 based on the 'Final Action Date', then the age of the child is locked. The child will not age out.

[AceMan]

EB2 and EB3 China have been doing it for a while now. Never heard that it invited additional queries and RFEs. Also, even though I-140 fees may be paid by employer or employee, most good employers pay for it. Mine paid for my AOS applications too. If someone's employer is ready to do it, why not? So depends on how one views it.

EB2I movement will be very lethargic, so I do not see any harm if anyone with a Sep 09 EB2I PD wants to take advantage of the EB3I PD.

Most good employers won't even be ready to do the flip-flop in the first place. USCIS made it more interesting since last week with potential for direct denial without RFE.

Again as you rightly said, individuals can decide what is good for them, however if the people downgrade to EB3 based on date assumptions, it is not going to help the people waiting in the queue in both EB2 and EB3.

[GCkaLADDU]

Most good employers won't even be ready to do the flip-flop in the first place. USCIS made it more interesting since last week with potential for direct denial without RFE.

Again as you rightly said, individuals can decide what is good for them, however if the people downgrade to EB3 based on date assumptions, it is not going to help the people waiting in the queue in both EB2 and EB3.

IMHO, people should be allowed in just 1 queue. If they made a choice to relinquish a queue then it should be the final choice. Somehow, this whole concept of using 2 queue's to get to the destination is not fair. Both for EB2 as well as EB3 folks who are patiently waiting in their respective queues.

[gcwait]

My PD is Jul 2009 for EB2I. Can I file 140 and 485 downgrading to EB3?

I think concurrent I140 and I485 filing is not possible with the filing dates. Please see below instructions from USCIS. In this scenario a visa number is not immediately available at the time of filing. Spec, other gurus please correct me if I am wrong.

https://www.uscis.gov/greencard/conc...ing-form-i-485
Visa Availability and Concurrent Filing
A petition and application may be filed concurrently when there is a visa number immediately available at the time of filing. Concurrent filing is always allowed for all immediate relatives of a United States citizen, since there are no numeric limitations in this category. However, in some categories, even if there is a visa number available at the time of filing, concurrent filing is not allowed as the intending immigrant must have an approved basis of eligibility (i.e. an approved petition) before being allowed to file for adjustment of status.

[Spectator]

I think concurrent I140 and I485 filing is not possible with the filing dates. Please see below instructions from USCIS. In this scenario a visa number is not immediately available at the time of filing. Spec, other gurus please correct me if I am wrong.

https://www.uscis.gov/greencard/conc...ing-form-i-485
Visa Availability and Concurrent Filing
A petition and application may be filed concurrently when there is a visa number immediately available at the time of filing. Concurrent filing is always allowed for all immediate relatives of a United States citizen, since there are no numeric limitations in this category. However, in some categories, even if there is a visa number available at the time of filing, concurrent filing is not allowed as the intending immigrant must have an approved basis of eligibility (i.e. an approved petition) before being allowed to file for adjustment of status.
This is not correct as far as I am aware.

The same laws and regulations govern concurrent filing, whether under FAD or Filing Date.

Some EB categories must have an approved petition before an I-485 can be filed. This is certainly true for EB5, where the I-526 must be approved. I believe that's also the case for some, if not all, EB4 cases, where the I-360 must be approved (I have a recollection about a lawsuit for some subset of EB4).

It's not the case for those EB cases requiring an I-140 petition.

It may not be possible to file the I-140 under Premium Processing if downgrading based on PERM used to file a previous EB2 I-140, since the original could not be sent with the new EB3 I-140 petition. I never saw a definitive answer to this scenario, even though USCIS already have the original PERM. Any clarity that comes from this situation would be welcome.

As another poster noted, USCIS previously clarified that an I-485 received under the Filing Date does not freeze the age of a dependent under CSPA. The age would still freeze once the FAD also became current. As we all know, there can be a long time between those 2 events. I believe it's another example where USCIS is out of step with DOS, again to the potential immigrant's detriment.

My thoughts only on what I have previously seen when China was first in the same situation. I haven't revisited it since.

[suninphx]

As another poster noted, USCIS previously clarified that an I-485 received under the Filing Date does not freeze the age of a dependent under CSPA. The age would still freeze once the FAD also became current. As we all know, there can be a long time between those 2 events. I believe it's another example where USCIS is out of step with DOS, again to the potential immigrant's detriment.

My thoughts only on what I have previously seen when China was first in the same situation. I haven't revisited it since.

What about dependents of people who filed back in 2012 when Filing date and FAD were not there? Or that filing is still technically considered as (new age) filing date?

[gcwait]

This is not correct as far as I am aware.

The same laws and regulations govern concurrent filing, whether under FAD or Filing Date.

Some EB categories must have an approved petition before an I-485 can be filed. This is certainly true for EB5, where the I-526 must be approved. I believe that's also the case for some, if not all, EB4 cases, where the I-360 must be approved (I have a recollection about a lawsuit for some subset of EB4).

It's not the case for those EB cases requiring an I-140 petition.

It may not be possible to file the I-140 under Premium Processing if downgrading based on PERM used to file a previous EB2 I-140, since the original could not be sent with the new EB3 I-140 petition. I never saw a definitive answer to this scenario, even though USCIS already have the original PERM. Any clarity that comes from this situation would be welcome.

As another poster noted, USCIS previously clarified that an I-485 received under the Filing Date does not freeze the age of a dependent under CSPA. The age would still freeze once the FAD also became current. As we all know, there can be a long time between those 2 events. I believe it's another example where USCIS is out of step with DOS, again to the potential immigrant's detriment.

My thoughts only on what I have previously seen when China was first in the same situation. I haven't revisited it since.

Thanks for the clarification Spec! I think the premium processing is not available because of the condition#3 below. But, again my understanding may be wrong

https://www.uscis.gov/forms/how-do-i-use-premium-processing-service
Premium Processing Service is available for the Form I-140 classifications indicated on the chart above provided that the case does not involve:
A second filing of a Form I-140 petition while an initial Form I-140 remains pending;
Labor certification substitution requests;
Duplicate Labor Certification requests (i.e., cases filed without an original labor certification from the Department of Labor), and;
A Form I-140 petition in which a final decision has been made.

USCIS is prescribing these additional conditions of availability on Premium Processing Service for Form I-140 because of their special processing requirements, including locating and transferring other files or documents internally and requesting initial evidence from an outside agency, that make it difficult for USCIS to guarantee that it will process the case within a 15 calendar day period.

[Spectator]

What about dependents of people who filed back in 2012 when Filing date and FAD were not there? Or that filing is still technically considered as (new age) filing date?

The one and only Cut Off Date was advanced back in 2012, so the filing of the I-485 froze the CSPA age.

As you are aware, the Filing Date concept was only introduced in October 2015.

For CP, I believe the filing of the DS-260 freezes the CSPA age, as it meets the "seeks to become an immigrant" test for DOS.

Personally, I don't see why filing an I-485 under the Filing Date doesn't meet the same test for USCIS.

[suninphx]

The one and only Cut Off Date was advanced back in 2012, so the filing of the I-485 froze the CSPA age.

As you are aware, the Filing Date concept was only introduced in October 2015.

For CP, I believe the filing of the DS-260 freezes the CSPA age, as it meets the "seeks to become an immigrant" test for DOS.

Personally, I don't see why filing an I-485 under the Filing Date doesn't meet the same test for USCIS.

Thanks Spec ! Appreciate you taking out time to reply queries on variety of topics.

[excalibur123]

Thanks for the clarification Spec! I think the premium processing is not available because of the condition#3 below. But, again my understanding may be wrong

https://www.uscis.gov/forms/how-do-i-use-premium-processing-service
Premium Processing Service is available for the Form I-140 classifications indicated on the chart above provided that the case does not involve:
A second filing of a Form I-140 petition while an initial Form I-140 remains pending;
Labor certification substitution requests;
Duplicate Labor Certification requests (i.e., cases filed without an original labor certification from the Department of Labor), and;
A Form I-140 petition in which a final decision has been made.

USCIS is prescribing these additional conditions of availability on Premium Processing Service for Form I-140 because of their special processing requirements, including locating and transferring other files or documents internally and requesting initial evidence from an outside agency, that make it difficult for USCIS to guarantee that it will process the case within a 15 calendar day period.

My lawyer had confirmed to me a couple of months back that premium processing of I140 is not available when labor cert cannot be attached. And he has spent his lifetime doing immigration law.

[HarepathekaIntezar]

My thought - EB2I with a PD <= 2010 would be wise to downgrade!

[swordfish380]

I really like this site, i usually come here to get valuable information.

Spec and Q :
" will you advise some one with June 2009 eb2 to down grade to EB3I?"


Based on perm data and 485 inventory when do you think ( time frame) eb3i will pass eb2i?

[qesehmk]

My advice would be not to downgrade until you actually see EB3-I going "substantially (i.e. 6 months or more)" ahead of EB2.
I really like this site, i usually come here to get valuable information.

Spec and Q :
" will you advise some one with June 2009 eb2 to down grade to EB3I?"


Based on perm data and 485 inventory when do you think ( time frame) eb3i will pass eb2i?

[swordfish380]

My advice would be not to downgrade until you actually see EB3-I going "substantially (i.e. 6 months or more)" ahead of EB2.

If i understand correctly we should get a clear picture in 6 months. There are around 3,000 485 s in inventory till the end of May 2009. In a hypothetical scenario if eb-3 I moves to June 2009 and eb-2 I get stuck in May of 2009. How long will it take to downgrade and get green card approved in eb3i?
Thank you Spec

[HarepathekaIntezar]

My advice would be not to downgrade until you actually see EB3-I going "substantially (i.e. 6 months or more)" ahead of EB2.

I thought downgrading would be independent of the EB2 que? If that is not the case, then I would agree with you. But, if both can run in parallel, then I see no need to wait, if money is not an issue. If it was me, I definitely would make that investment, even if I end up not using it.

[gcvijay]

Well this is what I found out regarding EB3 downgrading when chinese experienced it first.

The December 2013 Visa Bulletin confirms a strange trend we have witnessed recently in some employment based categories: it may be better to be EB3 than EB2. For nationals of China, those with EB2 priority dates have a cutoff date of November 8, 2008, while those with EB3 priority dates have a cutoff date of October 1, 2011, nearly three years later. This raises a strange question: Should you downgrade your EB2 case to EB3? One possible solution is to file a second I-140 visa petition in the third preference category using the prior EB2 labor certification. Almost all labor certification-based EB2 cases qualify to also file under EB3, with no change to the prior labor certification. As applicants can maintain their old EB2 priority date with a new petition, they can also possibly concurrently file an I-485 application to adjust status, if their old priority date is "current" under the EB3. Dependents can file applications for adjustment of status at the same time and each family member can also thereby obtain a work card and permission to travel outside the US without a visa (advance parole). It is important to discuss this strategy with a qualified immigration attorney as there are potential downsides, including the possibility of EB3 retrogression beyond the cutoff date of the EB2. Current Department of State predictions do not indicate a likely EB3 retrogression in the near future, however. Those who are able to file an EB3 I-140 and application to adjust status during December may remain "current" long enough for USCIS to adjudicate their applications for permanent residence (three to six months). Premium processing the I-140 petition is not an option, since USCIS does not permit Premium Processing in cases where a copy of the original labor certification is NOT filed with the petition. Filing the third preference petition does not conflict in any way with the second preference petition, and does not void or nullify it. Moreover, even if the EB3 retrogresses, the application for adjustment of status (I-485) can easily be paired with the petition having the better cutoff date, despite having already been filed.

[qesehmk]

I thought downgrading would be independent of the EB2 que? If that is not the case, then I would agree with you. But, if both can run in parallel, then I see no need to wait, if money is not an issue. If it was me, I definitely would make that investment, even if I end up not using it.

Yes they are independent. But there is hassle and money involved.

I also think it's a question of courtesy to other immigrants. I am not entirely sure if USCIS would avoid requesting double quota for such cases. I am afraid such duplicate requests could very well deprive other immigrants of their numbers.

For these two reasons I would wait until it is clear that EB3-I is getting ahead of EB2-I.

[HarepathekaIntezar]

Yes they are independent. But there is hassle and money involved.

I also think it's a question of courtesy to other immigrants. I am not entirely sure if USCIS would avoid requesting double quota for such cases. I am afraid such duplicate requests could very well deprive other immigrants of their numbers.

For these two reasons I would wait until it is clear that EB3-I is getting ahead of EB2-I.

I would not think there would be any loss of visas for one and one can't afford to be 'nice' to 'other immigrants', at least the chinese were not:D

[qesehmk]

I would not think there would be any loss of visas for one and one can't afford to be 'nice' to 'other immigrants', at least the chinese were not:D

Courtesy is, of course, a matter of personal choice and values. But I wouldn't be so confident on number use. There have been many documented ways how USCIS/DoS have interpreted laws in a questionable manner. I am sorry this is going to be my last on this topic.

Those who want to port of course should do it.

[AceMan]

Courtesy is, of course, a matter of personal choice and values. But I wouldn't be so confident on number use. There have been many documented ways how USCIS/DoS have interpreted laws in a questionable manner. I am sorry this is going to be my last on this topic.

Those who want to port of course should do it.

Porting when dates are current and filing 485is one thing vs porting in anticipation of forward moves is another. 2nd one just spoils thing for everyone. It is sheer wastage of resources in my opinion.

[EB2/eb3]

Hi, IÂ’m just trying to understand how downgrading to eb3 a better option for EB2 with pd before April 2010, and already have ead?
1) FAD for eb3 is behind EB2
2) no way of knowing eb3 pending inventory
3) because of the advantage of no interview for EB2, co will prefer to move EB2 FAD in the last quarter if there is any SO in eb3(similar to what was done in FY2018)
4) just read in a forum that the Pending immigration bill will open doors for EB2 Indians waiting for years, unlike for those Indians in eb3(does anyone know anything about this clause in the New bill?)

Excuse my ignorance if I stated anything wrong

[srimurthy]

Hi, IÂ’m just trying to understand how downgrading to eb3 a better option for EB2 with pd before April 2010, and already have ead?
1) FAD for eb3 is behind EB2
2) no way of knowing eb3 pending inventory
3) because of the advantage of no interview for EB2, co will prefer to move EB2 FAD in the last quarter if there is any SO in eb3(similar to what was done in FY2018)
4) just read in a forum that the Pending immigration bill will open doors for EB2 Indians waiting for years, unlike for those Indians in eb3(does anyone know anything about this clause in the New bill?)

Excuse my ignorance if I stated anything wrong

Downgrading and filing in EB3 per my understanding is in anticipation that EB3 case may get approved before EB2, assuming spillover and other details. It is not for an EAD but for actually getting greened.
On point 4) the bill may be referring to removal of country caps and who ever is saying EB2 I will benefit and not EB3 I is wrong. It will benefit all with backlogs is my understanding. And there is very little chance that anything will get passed.

[smuggymba]

I'm in EB2 lane so if my EB2 friends can "upgrade" to EB3 - that would be a win-win. People get out of my queue and folks who leave the queue get GC quickly.

[EB2/eb3]

Thank you for the clarification but if it is for the actual GC then don’t we have to make the decision when we actual see final action dates move for eb3?

[siriyal75]

Hi,
I am trying to understand, with approved i-140 in EB2, can one eligible to apply/downgrade/port I-140 for EB3 with existing Perm.

I read in one of the legal forms, the following text, its not clear to me, but the wording looks like, with existing PERM/Labor, one can apply EB3. Please clarify.

Do you need to file a new Perm?

Generally speaking, the petitioner needs to file the I-140 petition with an original approved labor certification for some EB-2 and EB-3 petitions and it must be filed within the 180-day validity period of the labor certification. However, the 2007 Neufeld Memo made exceptions to file the subsequent or amended I-140 petition with a copy of a labor certification that is expired the time the amended or duplicated Form I-140 is filed, if the original approved labor certification was filed in support of previously filed petition during the labor certification’s validity period. A new perm will not be required “in the instances where the amended petition is requesting a different visa classification than the visa classification requested in the previously filed petition, or when the previously filed Form I-140 petition has been determined to have been lost by USCIS or DOS. [1]

[iatiam]

Hi, IÂ’m just trying to understand how downgrading to eb3 a better option for EB2 with pd before April 2010, and already have ead?
1) FAD for eb3 is behind EB2
2) no way of knowing eb3 pending inventory
3) because of the advantage of no interview for EB2, co will prefer to move EB2 FAD in the last quarter if there is any SO in eb3(similar to what was done in FY2018)
4) just read in a forum that the Pending immigration bill will open doors for EB2 Indians waiting for years, unlike for those Indians in eb3(does anyone know anything about this clause in the New bill?)

Excuse my ignorance if I stated anything wrong

Regarding item #4 If you mean HR 392, the chances of that happening if minimal, if not none at all. It's the sad reality. There are very few working days left for congress this FY and all focus is on supreme court nomination. It is expected that Dems will win majority in House and Repubs will retain majority in Senate making the divide even worse. The only window of opportunity is after Nov. elections and before Dec 31st which is a very narrow period. Whatever happens, HR 392 will need to be re-introduced in next congress. Add to this the chances of Kevin Yoder losing the elections is high. And 2019 is when all the drama for primaries and 2020 presidential elections will begin.

Putting all that together, I believe that HR 392 will probably never pass in the next 2 years or even beyond.

Iatiam

[rocketfast]

Are there anyone who already have EAD/AP with EB2-I considering filing I-140 with EB3-I? Many would like to understand your thought process. You need to file a new I-140 and have 485 interviews as an extra step.

If you notice, EB3-I had quite a bit of pending inventory before July 2007 and many did not port as they already had EAD/AP. I wonder what percentage of people will remain in EB2-I for the simple reason of inertia.

[qesehmk]

I'm in EB2 lane so if my EB2 friends can "upgrade" to EB3 - that would be a win-win. People get out of my queue and folks who leave the queue get GC quickly.

Just a quick add .... an upgrade is really a separate application. So unless a person withdraws first one ... the person effectively has two GC applications.

[HarepathekaIntezar]

Do you need to file a new Perm?


The answer is NO.

[HarepathekaIntezar]

Just a quick add .... an upgrade is really a separate application. So unless a person withdraws first one ... the person effectively has two GC applications.

I agree. The more the merrier:D

[HarepathekaIntezar]

Porting when dates are current and filing 485is one thing vs porting in anticipation of forward moves is another. 2nd one just spoils thing for everyone. It is sheer wastage of resources in my opinion.

Bro, porting when dates are current means you file your I-140 at that point in time. This porting I-140 cannot be filed in Premium. So, by the time I-140 gets approved, the porting may very well have been reversed. So, it does not make sense to wait till dates are current. Whereas the smart guys and those who have come to the US to take risk, will file the I-140 right away and reap the reward of a 2nd que, being in position to utilize either one, depending on the trend at that time.

[siriyal75]

Thank you for the confirmation.

[EB2/eb3]

Makes sense, but I wouldn’t go thru the hoops if the difference is less than 3 months.
From what I see EB2/eb3 aug/sep 2009 ppl will receive their GCs with +- 2 months difference. Yes, if the difference is more than 6 months then it’s worth trying.

[dec2010]

Can someone pls confirm - for Eb2I PD >May2010, down port paths are -
a - ( new application ) New Perm/I-140 etc , no time bound
b - With Existing Perm (& EB2 I-140) , When PD is open for EB3 ( FAD/FD), file concurrent I-140 ( Non-Premium) / 485

Also, as I understand it - this is how things will be over next 1-3 years
if EB2I(< May2010) down port en masse, EB3 FAD/FD (filing date) will slow down and both EB2/EB3 will crawl together ( and eventually lower the down port rate)
if EB2I(< May2010) stay put ( as down porting would triggers in-person interview ) , then EB3 Filing Date will continue to move fwd, till EB2I start to flood it ( PDs > May2010 will certainly jump no matter what) , finally it slowing down.

Is that accurate? Does anyone have a model with hypothesis on where the cross point may be? or is it too early to comment with a need for few more VBs to indicate FAD/Filing Date Trend.

[AceMan]

Makes sense, but I wouldn’t go thru the hoops if the difference is less than 3 months.
From what I see EB2/eb3 aug/sep 2009 ppl will receive their GCs with +- 2 months difference. Yes, if the difference is more than 6 months then it’s worth trying.

UScis needs to move the filing dates together for both Eb2 and 3 together if they are serious about cleaning up for atleast next 2 bulletins to avoid downgrades. But at this point it is only wishful thinking

[Desi Dude]

People who have EB3 & EB2 both and PD before Oct 2009, don't need to do anything, since USCIS will pick the best possible case which is EB3 current; and start processing. Right?

[march1612]

Most of the EB3 folks with PD's in 2009 have ported to EB2 , I am not sure how much inventory USCIS would like to build in EB3-India, EB3-->EB2 porters might have already applied their 485's in 2012 when the dates were current.

My guesstimate tells me EB3-India dates will be pushed further beyond May 2010 to build significant inventory.

Anyone familiar with numbers can contest my theory.

[texas_]

Most of the EB3 folks with PD's in 2009 have ported to EB2 , I am not sure how much inventory USCIS would like to build in EB3-India, EB3-->EB2 porters might have already applied their 485's in 2012 when the dates were current.

My guesstimate tells me EB3-India dates will be pushed further beyond May 2010 to build significant inventory.

Anyone familiar with numbers can contest my theory.

USCIS would need to move EB3-I filing dates to early to mid 2011 to build inventory as there are only 1600 cases pending for entire EB3 I + cases at FO

[march1612]

USCIS would need to move EB3-I filing dates to early to mid 2011 to build inventory as there are only 1600 cases pending for entire EB3 I + cases at FO

How will that impact EB2-India movement specifically Final action dates?

[texas_]

How will that impact EB2-India movement specifically Final action dates?

I have stated EB3I only, EB2-I would slowly move by 2 weeks as predicted.

[march1612]

I have stated EB3I only, EB2-I would slowly move by 2 weeks as predicted.

Will there be No porting (EB3-->EB2) impact on EB2 Final action dates?

[rocketfast]

Just a quick add .... an upgrade is really a separate application. So unless a person withdraws first one ... the person effectively has two GC applications.

Thanks Q. This is a good clarification and fills in a knowledge gap for me.


Bro, porting when dates are current means you file your I-140 at that point in time. This porting I-140 cannot be filed in Premium. So, by the time I-140 gets approved, the porting may very well have been reversed. So, it does not make sense to wait till dates are current. Whereas the smart guys and those who have come to the US to take risk, will file the I-140 right away and reap the reward of a 2nd que, being in position to utilize either one, depending on the trend at that time.

This would be the logical thing to do as an individual. Not a logical thing to do as a group (assuming USCIS will cluster fkuc 2 485 applications as Q suggested)- but we do not (and will not) have any group representation right now, so there is no point hoping that everyone will do the right thing for the group.

So the "smart" thing for people with PD greater than April 2010 to do is to get their second application also posted right now. If I-140 approval takes 6 months or so, they will have a better chance getting lucky if the dates advance in the last quarter.

Even smarter thing is for CO/USCIS to just announce that they will automatically treat every EB2 application as EB3 application too. This will reduce the burden of their work and will not result in absolute mayhem.

[Spectator]

People who have EB3 & EB2 both and PD before Oct 2009, don't need to do anything, since USCIS will pick the best possible case which is EB3 current; and start processing. Right?

I assume you are talking about a situation where a person:

a) Has both an EB2 and EB3 I-140 approved (with the same employer)
AND
b) Already has an I-485 pending based on the EB2 I-140 petition.

USCIS will not pick the case that has the best possible outcome.

An I-485 can only ever have one basis of eligibility.

To change that eligibility, the applicant must inform USCIS, IN WRITING, that they wish to change the basis of eligibility.

You can find information about this in the USCIS Policy Manual under Volume 7 - Adjustment of Status, Part A - Adjustment of Status Policies and Procedures Chapter 8 - Transfer of Underlying Basis (https://www.uscis.gov/policymanual/HTML/PolicyManual-Volume7-PartA-Chapter8.html) I recommend a thorough read.

From that:


B. Filing Requirements

1. New Application or Fee Not Required [9]

An applicant may submit a transfer request, in writing, to the USCIS office with jurisdiction over the application if eligibility can be established. Generally, no new adjustment application or filing fee is required. As noted above, however, a request to convert to a INA 245(i) adjustment would require payment of the additional $1,000 fee and filing of Supplement A to Form I-485.

2. Request Must Be Made in Writing

The adjustment applicant must request in writing that USCIS transfer his or her pending adjustment application from one basis to another.

If an applicant verbally requests transfer of an adjustment application, for instance, during the adjustment interview, an applicant should sign and date a written statement to that effect. The interview could then proceed without further delay provided the applicant remains eligible to immediately adjust under the new classification.

The request can be attached to a new I-140 application among other scenarios.


C. Petition Considerations
Prior to adjudication of an adjustment application, USCIS may allow the applicant to transfer a pending adjustment application to a different petition or basis regardless of whether the petition that forms the new basis for the pending adjustment application has already been approved or is pending, if allowable by law or regulation and provided certain requirements are met. [10]

Only one petition may form the basis of an adjustment application at any given time. The applicant must clearly designate in writing which petition serves as the new basis of the adjustment application. Several steps are required to ensure that the petition that forms the new basis for the pending adjustment application is properly matched with a pending adjustment application.

If concurrent filing is allowed, then transfer applicants are generally instructed to:

•Submit the new petition (with proper filing fee and signature) with a signed letter requesting that his or her pending adjustment application be transferred to the new petition. Include a cover sheet (preferably highlighted with colored paper) stating, "REQUEST FOR TRANSFER OF PENDING FORM I-485 (CASE #) TO ENCLOSED PETITION."

•Include a copy of the adjustment application's receipt notice with the new petition filing.

•Include evidence of eligibility for the new immigrant category in support of the transfer request to transfer to a new eligibility basis. A new adjustment application and fee are not required (see INA 245(i) exception above).

If concurrent filing is not allowed, then transfer applicants are generally instructed to wait until the new petition is approved before submitting a signed letter requesting the pending adjustment application be transferred, with the other documentation mentioned above.

Once an applicant makes a request to transfer a pending adjustment application from one basis to another and if the transfer request is granted, the original petition no longer supports the adjustment application. This rule applies even if the original petition is approved. The transfer request must be made sufficiently ahead of the time of adjudication of the adjustment application in order to give USCIS reasonable time to match up the replacement petition with the pending adjustment application. An officer must deny transfer requests received on or after the date the adjustment application is finally adjudicated.

1. Approved Petition to an Approved Petition

The beneficiary of an approved petition with a pending adjustment application may replace the approved petition with a different approved petition as the basis for the pending adjustment application.

2. Approved Petition to a Pending Petition

The beneficiary of an approved petition with a pending adjustment application may replace the approved petition with a pending petition as the new basis for the pending adjustment application in certain categories. The new basis must allow for filing of an adjustment application prior to approval of the petition (concurrent filing), or the transfer cannot occur and should be denied.

3. Pending Petition to an Approved Petition

An adjustment applicant with a concurrently filed and pending immigrant petition may replace the pending petition with a subsequently filed and approved petition as the basis for the pending adjustment application.

4. Pending Petition to a Pending Petition

An adjustment applicant with a concurrently filed and pending petition may request to transfer the adjustment application to another pending petition, provided that the new basis allows for the filing of the adjustment application prior to approval of the underlying petition.

Having requested a switch from EB2 to EB3, if in the future, EB2 were to become more favorable, another written request would be required to switch the basis of the I-485 from EB3 to EB2. This all takes time and, as the Chinese have found, the window of opportunity may be lost by the time the request has been processed and approved.

This is the correct procedure to switch the basis of an already pending I-485. USCIS frown on multiple I-485 applications and will, at a minimum, ask for extra ones to be withdrawn.

If that wasn't your scenario, then I still think the information above will be helpful to others.

[siriyal75]

2-3 months difference for EB2 can be 1-2 years wait, so need careful understanding based on pending inventory in EB3.
EB-2 China people have have thought , when early advancement in 2013/14, later they realized the EB3 dates moved faster than EB2 for long time. This may happen with case with EB2-I folks next 1-2 years.

[Desi Dude]

Thanks Spectator for the detailed explanation. I'm sure a lot of people are in this situation.

It seems from your post that one can simply send an email to USCIS asking to switch from EB2 to EB3 as basis (which is very similar to the reverse scenario that has been done successfully over the last few years)

[HarepathekaIntezar]

Most of the EB3 folks with PD's in 2009 have ported to EB2 , I am not sure how much inventory USCIS would like to build in EB3-India, EB3-->EB2 porters might have already applied their 485's in 2012 when the dates were current.

My guesstimate tells me EB3-India dates will be pushed further beyond May 2010 to build significant inventory.

Anyone familiar with numbers can contest my theory.
I agree with your theory:rolleyes: that most EB2I with PD <2010 are essentially upgrades from EB3. so, we already have a ton of Inventory of folks who have both EB2 and EB3 I-140 approved and ready to go in either direction for their AOS.

[texas_]

I agree with your theory:rolleyes: that most EB2I with PD <2010 are essentially upgrades from EB3. so, we already have a ton of Inventory of folks who have both EB2 and EB3 I-140 approved and ready to go in either direction for their AOS.

But if they come back in EB3 Lane then wouldn't they be subject to Interview process?

[march1612]

I agree with your theory:rolleyes: that most EB2I with PD <2010 are essentially upgrades from EB3. so, we already have a ton of Inventory of folks who have both EB2 and EB3 I-140 approved and ready to go in either direction for their AOS.

With all reverse-porting and porting, can we assume EB2 and EB3 would stabilize around May 2010 during FY19 ?

[march1612]

If 485 is already applied prior to March 2017, There is no mandatory interview process. However, it is subjected to officer discretion for send out an interview if he/she would like to have additional information from the applicant

[HarepathekaIntezar]

But if they come back in EB3 Lane then wouldn't they be subject to Interview process?

Interview process is no longer the big elephant in the room that it is being made out to be. Folks are getting scheduled pretty fast. April 2018 filers are already having their Interviews scheduled and i even saw some GC Approvals for April 2018 filers.

[AceMan]

Interview process is no longer the big elephant in the room that it is being made out to be. Folks are getting scheduled pretty fast. April 2018 filers are already having their Interviews scheduled and i even saw some GC Approvals for April 2018 filers.


A small matter of 6+ months towards interview.

[swordfish380]

We should have some good data analyst and mathematical modelers on this forum. With available data and some conservative assumptions cant we come up with downgrading chart/prediction so we can utilize Eb3i and eb2i quota so both categories move simultaneously and no one gains unfair advantage? We have been sympathetic with eb3i all along. But now due to porting eb3i will have unfair advantage.

Im not smart nor i have a good understanding on how to interpret/analyze available data

[AceMan]

We should have some good data analyst and mathematical modelers on this forum. With available data and some conservative assumptions cant we come up with downgrading chart/prediction so we can utilize Eb3i and eb2i quota so both categories move simultaneously and no one gains unfair advantage? We have been sympathetic with eb3i all along. But now due to porting eb3i will have unfair advantage.

Im not smart nor i have a good understanding on how to interpret/analyze available data

For a decade EB3 did not utilize the full quota. As per rules right of spill over goes to EB1 and EB2. EB1 did not have enough so EB2 got a lot of SO till 2014. Only option for EB3 guys, port. Sympathies all along did not have any use. Also when EB2 I moved to 2010 in 2012, EB3 was languishing in 2002, simultaneous forward was conveniently ignored.

So after a long time EB3 gets its first chance of filing faster than EB3, you deem it as unfair advantage. I repeat it is only filing. Even from 2007 people in EB3 are waiting to be greened.

If people can port down from EB2 to EB3, they will do it.

[srimurthy]

For a decade EB3 did not utilize the full quota. As per rules right of spill over goes to EB1 and EB2. EB1 did not have enough so EB2 got a lot of SO till 2014. Only option for EB3 guys, port. Sympathies all along did not have any use. Also when EB2 I moved to 2010 in 2012, EB3 was languishing in 2002, simultaneous forward was conveniently ignored.

So after a long time EB3 gets its first chance of filing faster than EB3, you deem it as unfair advantage. I repeat it is only filing. Even from 2007 people in EB3 are waiting to be greened.

If people can port down from EB2 to EB3, they will do it.

I guess everyone with a PD before 2010 would have a 5+ year experience and hence qualify for both EB3 and EB2 submissions. So people would keep moving and also anyone with EB3 / EB2 PDs from 2015 onwards, by the time their dates become current they will gain enough experience to file in any category. So there is no unfair advantage for anyone here. and this to and fro would continue for China and India until we have good SO's which is not going to happen with EB1 backlogs or until the country cap removal which is also not going to happen.

[Spectator]

For a decade EB3 did not utilize the full quota. As per rules right of spill over goes to EB1 and EB2. EB1 did not have enough so EB2 got a lot of SO till 2014. Only option for EB3 guys, port. Sympathies all along did not have any use. Also when EB2 I moved to 2010 in 2012, EB3 was languishing in 2002, simultaneous forward was conveniently ignored.

So after a long time EB3 gets its first chance of filing faster than EB3, you deem it as unfair advantage. I repeat it is only filing. Even from 2007 people in EB3 are waiting to be greened.

If people can port down from EB2 to EB3, they will do it.

I would agree that EB3 SO has not been handled well. The full allocation was not used, even when EB3-ROW was retrogressed. With Countries retrogressed, no visas in EB3 should be wasted, as the horizontal SO rules come into effect.

It's a myth that EB1 used to provide SO to EB2. It only did so in FY2011 when the introduction of the Kazarian memo caused processing of EB1 to be paused.

Spillover Source to EB2-I ------- FB ------ EB1 ----- EB2 ---- EB4 ----- EB5 --- Other --- Total
FY2010-FY2014 ----------------- 27,659 -- 12,156 -- 23,786 -- 8,263 -- 17,315 -- 1,210 -- 90,389

11,158, or 92% of EB1 spillover to EB2 came in FY2011.
The real source of perceived SO from EB1 was not EB1 itself, but under use in Family based (criminal, since all categories are always been retrogressed), EB5 and EB4.

DOS has since sorted out the FB allocations and number use has increased in EB5 and EB4.

That leaves horizontal SO within EB2, which has now also dried up. Even some of that was a bit of an illusion, since very slow PERM processing at various times during the period created a lack of ROW I-485 applications within a FY.


As for your point about EB3-I not moving in FY2012, at that time EB2-I was running out of inventory, so CO pushed the dates forward to create a new one and have visibility into future demand. The same was not true of EB3-I at that time, so the dates were not advanced for EB3-I.

Today, we have the opposite situation. EB3-I has run out of the previous inventory because they have now surpassed July 2007. CO needs to build a new inventory for demand forecast purposes. There is still plenty of EB2-I inventory, so there is no need to advance those dates more than supply of visas allows.

[qesehmk]

Spec spoke about spillover quite beautifully. I just want to add that pre-2011 EB2-I used to significantly benefit from EB5 which would only utilize barely 1.5K numbers and almost 8-9K would flow down to EB2 via EB1. EB1 itself would almost consume its own numbers and perhaps used to leave 2-3 K on the table.

Another source was EB4 which would typically consumer 3-4K and the rest was given to EB2 via EB1.

As Spec correctly points out now all these sources have pretty much dried up leaving EB2-I at the mercy of EB2-ROW.

There is one more nuance here - the EB2-I was not always lucky to get all the visas and then use it.

The agencies (DoS and/or USCIS) used to take the SO in EB2 and move it down to EB3-ROW. This was challenged in courts (don't remember how and when) and that's how the horizontal spillover's precedence was established.

p.s. - Not many people here remember about the Kazarian memo. And that's a good thing believe me.

[AceMan]

I would agree that EB3 SO has not been handled well. The full allocation was not used, even when EB3-ROW was retrogressed. With Countries retrogressed, no visas in EB3 should be wasted, as the horizontal SO rules come into effect.

It's a myth that EB1 used to provide SO to EB2. It only did so in FY2011 when the introduction of the Kazarian memo caused processing of EB1 to be paused.

Spillover Source to EB2-I ------- FB ------ EB1 ----- EB2 ---- EB4 ----- EB5 --- Other --- Total
FY2010-FY2014 ----------------- 27,659 -- 12,156 -- 23,786 -- 8,263 -- 17,315 -- 1,210 -- 90,389

11,158, or 92% of EB1 spillover to EB2 came in FY2011.
The real source of perceived SO from EB1 was not EB1 itself, but under use in Family based (criminal, since all categories are always been retrogressed), EB5 and EB4.

DOS has since sorted out the FB allocations and number use has increased in EB5 and EB4.

That leaves horizontal SO within EB2, which has now also dried up. Even some of that was a bit of an illusion, since very slow PERM processing at various times during the period created a lack of ROW I-485 applications within a FY.


As for your point about EB3-I not moving in FY2012, at that time EB2-I was running out of inventory, so CO pushed the dates forward to create a new one and have visibility into future demand. The same was not true of EB3-I at that time, so the dates were not advanced for EB3-I.

Today, we have the opposite situation. EB3-I has run out of the previous inventory because they have now surpassed July 2007. CO needs to build a new inventory for demand forecast purposes. There is still plenty of EB2-I inventory, so there is no need to advance those dates more than supply of visas allows.

You have rephrased my point. In FY 2012 EB2-I moved forward due to the lack of inventory. In FY 2019 we are in the cusp of EB3-I moving forward due to the lack of inventory. EB3 - ROW was current since June 17. Even then EB3 wasted close to 2500 visa's in FY 17. Added to that USCIS did not respect filing date at all at the start of FY18. Even with the lack of inventory for EB3-ROW, EB3-I had a pathetic movement for the 2nd quarter of FY17 with no movement in the first quarter. All it resulted in not proper utilization of the numbers and when FY19 started when USCIS accepted filing date after 2 years, people come up with unfair perception even though EB3 -I is 11 years behind.

I am suggesting that illogical porting by EB3 -> EB2 ->EB3 (flipflop) (people who already have AOS in EB2) will potentially skew the actual demand which will result in cascading delay again for FY19.

[LASHAB]

My company's immigration person has said this about reverse porting -

a) Conversion of an EB-3 case to EB-2 implies a regression. XYZ as a company will look bad and lose its credibility in front of USCIS. Also XYZ could be questioned by the USCIS on why we filed your case in EB-2 in the beginning and are now filing in EB-3. Does it mean that the same job for which we filed your Green Card now has reduced requirements? Why should XYZ as a company be made to look bad in the eyes of the USCIS and possibly even face legal or other disciplinary action, in order to meet your requirement of lowering the category of your immigration petition? USCIS could come back and question us that we are basing our immigration requirements conveniently on the basis of priority dates rather than based on genuine requirements of the positions and the company.

b) Remember that Green Card is not filed on your individual education and experience, but on the education and experience requirements of the job for which your Green Card was filed. Please get me a letter from your BU Head stating why the requirements of the job are now lower and can be fulfilled by a person with lesser educational qualification and experience than what we had earlier anticipated.

Not sure how to answer this. Can someone help if the immigration dept is justified in having this point of view.

[Desi Dude]

All are valid points, in LASHAB's post.

Which means it only makes sense for those with I-485 pending who had upgraded from EB3 to EB2, since they will be having both EB3 & EB2 I-140. In that case, you won't have to deal with the company, just need to send an email to USCIS asking to use EB3 I-140 instead.

[rocketfast]

My company's immigration person has said this about reverse porting -


Remember that Green Card is not filed on your individual education and experience, but on the education and experience requirements of the job for which your Green Card was filed. Please get me a letter from your BU Head stating why the requirements of the job are now lower and can be fulfilled by a person with lesser educational qualification and experience than what we had earlier anticipated.

Not sure how to answer this. Can someone help if the immigration dept is justified in having this point of view.

I am not sure that is a valid argument - though it does not surprise me that companies are using that argument to keep you tied to them longer. Someone can file in EB3 even if the job says that it needs MS or 5 year experience. I don't think it says anywhere that you should file in EB2 simply because the job demands a MS.

I am sure your company will change tact if enough people change jobs to start a new EB3 application at a new company.

[Spectator]

My company's immigration person has said this about reverse porting -

a) Conversion of an EB-2 case to EB-3 implies a regression. XYZ as a company will look bad and lose its credibility in front of USCIS. Also XYZ could be questioned by the USCIS on why we filed your case in EB-2 in the beginning and are now filing in EB-3. Does it mean that the same job for which we filed your Green Card now has reduced requirements? Why should XYZ as a company be made to look bad in the eyes of the USCIS and possibly even face legal or other disciplinary action, in order to meet your requirement of lowering the category of your immigration petition? USCIS could come back and question us that we are basing our immigration requirements conveniently on the basis of priority dates rather than based on genuine requirements of the positions and the company.

b) Remember that Green Card is not filed on your individual education and experience, but on the education and experience requirements of the job for which your Green Card was filed. Please get me a letter from your BU Head stating why the requirements of the job are now lower and can be fulfilled by a person with lesser educational qualification and experience than what we had earlier anticipated.

Not sure how to answer this. Can someone help if the immigration dept is justified in having this point of view.

But all of those arguments are bull****.

a) The Basis of the new EB3 I-140 is the same PERM that had sufficient requirements for an EB2 I-140 approval.

b) The requirements (roles and responsibilities) of the job haven't changed.

c) The education and experience requirements haven't changed.

d) The PWD hasn't changed.

The I-140 petition will be identical to the original one, except that it is requesting approval under EB3.

There's no maximum requirements for filing under EB3. You could require a Nobel Prize and it wouldn't stop the case being filed under EB3.

It's just using the most advantageous Category for the beneficiary of the petition.

That's not unlawful.

This is just a convenient excuse for a Company not to file under EB3. It must really be ******* some HR jerks off.


They would only have a valid point if you were asking them to file a PERM with lower requirements than the job would normally have and which precluded an EB2 I-140. Then, they could never file for the position under EB2 again and any previous I-140 approvals under EB2 would become questionable.

[aryansd]

But all of those arguments are bull****.

a) The Basis of the new EB3 I-140 is the same PERM that had sufficient requirements for an EB2 I-140 approval.

.

Just want to clarify for my own understanding - How can the PERM which was qualified for EB2 requirement can be qualified now for EB3 ? Person can qualify for EB2 or EB3 based on his education/experience but PERM was filed based on the job requirement. If the same PERM is used now for EB3 I140, isnt that downgrading the job requirement ?

[Spectator]

Just want to clarify for my own understanding - How can the PERM which was qualified for EB2 requirement can be qualified now for EB3 ? Person can qualify for EB2 or EB3 based on his education/experience but PERM was filed based on the job requirement. If the same PERM is used now for EB3 I140, isnt that downgrading the job requirement ?

By definition, a PERM for a job that meets the minimum EB2 requirements must also meet the minimum requirements for EB3.

The EB3 I-140 is being filed on the basis of the same PERM certification that also meets the requirements to file an EB2 I-140. The job role is the same, the minimum educational and experience requirements are the same and the minimum that can be paid is the same

The fact that a PERM certification meets the minimum requirements for EB2 does not exclude it being used for EB3, or mean that it must be used to support the highest EB category it qualifies for.

The job requirements are unchanged. It's just that the I-140 is being requested in a different EB category.

Why is this so difficult to understand.

My last.

[HarepathekaIntezar]

All are valid points, in LASHAB's post.

Which means it only makes sense for those with I-485 pending who had upgraded from EB3 to EB2, since they will be having both EB3 & EB2 I-140. In that case, you won't have to deal with the company, just need to send an email to USCIS asking to use EB3 I-140 instead.

That is what I have been saying. But even for those who have only filed in EB2 and do not have an EB3 I-140, it does make sense to downgrade, simply because the EB3ROW SO would be utilized by EB3 category before being sent up to EB1. I don't see EB2 having any SO for a couple of years.

[LASHAB]

Thanks Spec

[gcvijay]

I checked with my attorney about downgrading as my dates will be current under EB3. This is what they said. Do you guys know if anyone faced this like the chinese?

"while it is possible to change preference categories, it is not recommended. It could adversely affect you at the interview stage of your green card process when the officer sees that you changed from EB2 to EB3 and inquires why you did so. It is also important to remember that while EB3 is currently ahead of EB2, it could (and likely will) switch back at any time."

[AceMan]

I checked with my attorney about downgrading as my dates will be current under EB3. This is what they said. Do you guys know if anyone faced this like the chinese?

"while it is possible to change preference categories, it is not recommended. It could adversely affect you at the interview stage of your green card process when the officer sees that you changed from EB2 to EB3 and inquires why you did so. It is also important to remember that while EB3 is currently ahead of EB2, it could (and likely will) switch back at any time."

Every attorneys are saying pretty much similar stuff. Even with all the rejections and scrutiny happening with USCIS, and even after your own lawyers explanation and with a 2009 PD, I am seriously intrigued what motivates you to explore this option? Are you having kids who are aging out? H1 renewal issues?

What is stopping you from staying put for another month or 2?

[gcvijay]

Well, I'm inclined to believe that EB2 INDIA will not move past 2009 May 22nd this FY.

[qesehmk]

That's baloney Vijay. Don't listen to them.

The GC is sponsored by employer - so the question should be directed at Employer not you.
I checked with my attorney about downgrading as my dates will be current under EB3. This is what they said. Do you guys know if anyone faced this like the chinese?

"while it is possible to change preference categories, it is not recommended. It could adversely affect you at the interview stage of your green card process when the officer sees that you changed from EB2 to EB3 and inquires why you did so. It is also important to remember that while EB3 is currently ahead of EB2, it could (and likely will) switch back at any time."

[AceMan]

Yeah, My opinion may be biased because I am having an EB3 petition with 2011 dates.

However I am also concerned with people crowding up, if there is no real need for it. Even if the question is directed to your employer, any adverse impact has to be borne by you. Just my biased opinion.

[iatiam]

Every attorneys are saying pretty much similar stuff. Even with all the rejections and scrutiny happening with USCIS, and even after your own lawyers explanation and with a 2009 PD, I am seriously intrigued what motivates you to explore this option? Are you having kids who are aging out? H1 renewal issues?

What is stopping you from staying put for another month or 2?

I don't understand the logic here. What scrutiny and rejection are you talking here? If you are applying for H1B extension, then yes. Why would downgrading from EB2 to EB3 pose any additional risk. In fact waiting more would entail more risk by way of additional scrutiny in my opinion.

I get it, you are in EB3 and you don't want anyone to downgrade.

Iatiam

[iatiam]

That's baloney Vijay. Don't listen to them.

The GC is sponsored by employer - so the question should be directed at Employer not you.

Touche.

Attorneys are supposed to work for their clients. But nowadays they prevent you from geting GCs and lobby hard to make sure the backlogs are not cleared.

[AceMan]

Yeah, My opinion may be biased because I am having an EB3 petition with 2011 dates.

However I am also concerned with people crowding up, if there is no real need for it. Even if the question is directed to your employer, any adverse impact has to be borne by you. Just my biased opinion.

[EB2/eb3]

if u never filed AOS I think u should go ahead and file with ur previous employer under Eb3.
If u already have ead then there is no point in downgrading.
I do agree with ur attorney that things can flip here anytime. Because it’s just the filing dates that are moving for eb3 and not FAD. Most eb2 guys before mar 15th should have already received their GC in the last quarter of fy18 and July inventory does not reflect these approvals. So I don’t agree with u on that may 2009 by end of fy19, because of no interview advantage CO tends to apply SO to EB2I, in the last quarter(I see eb2I getting approvals now, even when dates are not current) Only eb2i has this advantage. End of fy19, eb2i may touch sept 2009, at least.
Just my personal opinion..

[siriyal75]

It all depends on EB3 inventory for 2007-2009, if the inventory is less than 6K, EB3 dates may move into 2010, but EB2 stay at mid 2009, next year the gap will be even worser.
EB3 to EB2 porting, why attorney's or some one in this forum suggesting to avoid, this has already done Chinese in 2014/15.
How did they downgrade? got GCs?.

My PD is Jun-2010, no AoS filed, waiting for many years, now looks like EB3 is more promising for next 1-2 years, than EB2.

Waiting for new inventory for EB3 till 2009 end, may be we know by December/Jan, based on it, need to check with current employer to downgrade or start new employer perm under EB3.

[march1612]

I checked with my attorney about downgrading as my dates will be current under EB3. This is what they said. Do you guys know if anyone faced this like the chinese?

"while it is possible to change preference categories, it is not recommended. It could adversely affect you at the interview stage of your green card process when the officer sees that you changed from EB2 to EB3 and inquires why you did so. It is also important to remember that while EB3 is currently ahead of EB2, it could (and likely will) switch back at any time."

The problem with attorney's are they always want to be politically correct and impress their clients. Would the same attorney advise Not to Port from EB3 to EB2 assuming EB2 is moving faster than EB3?

Either way new 485 filers will have interview if you file in EB2 or EB3.

I would recommend to go for downgrading to EB3 if that benefits your personal life and career.

[Spectator]

This is a subject I haven't seen discussed and I'm not sure why.

Firstly, let me say that when I was following the Chinese reverse porting, they were doing it by using their existing PERM which qualified for EB2 to file an EB3 I-140.

That's a world away from using an existing EB3 i-140 with a previous employer.

There are 2 main potential scenarios to reverse port from EB2 to EB3.

a) As described above, you use an existing PERM certification that supported an EB2 I-140 to file a new EB3 I-140.

b) An existing EB3 I-140 exists with a previous employer. You have an EB2 I-140 with your current employer. You want to file an I-485 based on the previous employer's EB3 I-140.

These are as about as different a scenario as you can imagine.

With (a) the I-140 job and pay requirementsremain unchanged, regardless of whether it's filed under EB2 or EB3. You can continue to work for your present employer post I-485 approval, should you wish.

With (b), when you file your I-485, the previous employer is swearing that they have the job described in the old I-140 and intend to employ you after the I-485 is approved at at least the minimum wage described in the I-140 petition.
In turn, the I-485 applicant is swearing that they will take up that job, with that employer, under (a minimum of) the conditions described in the I-140 petition, when their I-485 is approved.

The job described in case (b) is one with lower responsibilities and lower minimum pay requirements. Also, the PWD was obtained possibly several years before that for the separate EB2 I-140 petition.

Generally, if people leave an employer, there is a reason. Does the person want to be obligated to return to that employer?

Some employers would definitely take advantage of the situation where they could pay under market rate, because that's what the old EB3 PWD came out at. Let's not pretend they don't exist and that no one has ever worked for them.

If you file with a previous employer, you'd better be willing to go back there to work after GC. That's what you're saying when yo file that I-485. That potentially means relocating yourself and your family, depending on what has happened since you left that employer.

If you have even the slightest doubt about being prepared to do that, or think you already figure you can weasel out of that commitment because of AC21, then don't pursue this route.

To some, it might seem easier to use a previous EB3 I-140, but it is a complete can of worms IMHO. Energy is better spent getting an EB3 I-140 based on a PERM that has already supported an EB2 I-140.

I don't feel qualified to be any part of a further discussion, but I did want to at least highlight the issue.

It was the first thing that came to my mind (a long time ago) about how different the scenarios might be from the Chinese experience, when the prospect of reverse porting for India started to be discussed.

[gcvijay]

Spec.

When the chinese did it did they have the issue of the USCIS office interviewer interview the candidate and ask the question like why did you downgrade to EB3 and approve or reject 485 based on the answer? This will be a big deal if its being rejected just because you downgraded.

Thanks
Vijay

[AceMan]

This is a subject I haven't seen discussed and I'm not sure why.

Firstly, let me say that when I was following the Chinese reverse porting, they were doing it by using their existing PERM which qualified for EB2 to file an EB3 I-140.

That's a world away from using an existing EB3 i-140 with a previous employer.

There are 2 main potential scenarios to reverse port from EB2 to EB3.

a) As described above, you use an existing PERM certification that supported an EB2 I-140 to file a new EB3 I-140.

b) An existing EB3 I-140 exists with a previous employer. You have an EB2 I-140 with your current employer. You want to file an I-485 based on the previous employer's EB3 I-140.

These are as about as different a scenario as you can imagine.

With (a) the I-140 job and pay requirementsremain unchanged, regardless of whether it's filed under EB2 or EB3. You can continue to work for your present employer post I-485 approval, should you wish.

With (b), when you file your I-485, the previous employer is swearing that they have the job described in the old I-140 and intend to employ you after the I-485 is approved at at least the minimum wage described in the I-140 petition.
In turn, the I-485 applicant is swearing that they will take up that job, with that employer, under (a minimum of) the conditions described in the I-140 petition, when their I-485 is approved.

The job described in case (b) is one with lower responsibilities and lower minimum pay requirements. Also, the PWD was obtained possibly several years before that for the separate EB2 I-140 petition.

Generally, if people leave an employer, there is a reason. Does the person want to be obligated to return to that employer?

Some employers would definitely take advantage of the situation where they could pay under market rate, because that's what the old EB3 PWD came out at. Let's not pretend they don't exist and that no one has ever worked for them.

If you file with a previous employer, you'd better be willing to go back there to work after GC. That's what you're saying when yo file that I-485. That potentially means relocating yourself and your family, depending on what has happened since you left that employer.

If you have even the slightest doubt about being prepared to do that, or think you already figure you can weasel out of that commitment because of AC21, then don't pursue this route.

To some, it might seem easier to use a previous EB3 I-140, but it is a complete can of worms IMHO. Energy is better spent getting an EB3 I-140 based on a PERM that has already supported an EB2 I-140.

I don't feel qualified to be any part of a further discussion, but I did want to at least highlight the issue.

It was the first thing that came to my mind (a long time ago) about how different the scenarios might be from the Chinese experience, when the prospect of reverse porting for India started to be discussed.

Well explained Spec. Would you be kind enough to put the time lines for the same based on the current proceing times as well? Due to my filing status, I may come up with the numbers which may be biased.

[iatiam]

Spec.

When the chinese did it did they have the issue of the USCIS office interviewer interview the candidate and ask the question like why did you downgrade to EB3 and approve or reject 485 based on the answer? This will be a big deal if its being rejected just because you downgraded.

Thanks
Vijay

Vijay,
If you upgraded and did not get any questions, then why would you get questions when you downgrade. When a position is eligible for EB2, it is obviously eligible for EB3. If you passed, 10th grade, it means you passed 8th grade also.
Iatiam

[Spectator]

Well explained Spec. Would you be kind enough to put the time lines for the same based on the current processing times as well? Due to my filing status, I may come up with the numbers which may be biased.
I'm not sure I entirely understand the question.

Interms of process, there might be some differences I could see.

a) Same employer as approved EB2 I-140

This would need a new I-140 for EB3 as well as I-485 package(s) to be produced before filing.

However, the new I-140 would be basically a copy/paste of the existing approved one, bar the EB category, so not sure how that would cause a problem timewise.

No PP of I-140, so several months wait for approval, but this would probably be less than I-485 processing time.

Since it would be a concurrent filing, no 485-J supplement would be required.

There would be a wait time (unknown) for FAD to become current, but most processing and EAD/AP could be carried out in the meantime. Even if FAD current, normal processing times would apply.


b) Previous employer with approved EB3 I-140

Only preparation and filing of I-485 package(s) required.

The I-140 is already approved, so no waiting for approval, but as above, the I-485 processing would likely be the longer time frame.

Since it is a non-concurrent filing, a 485-J supplement would also be required.

There would be a wait time (unknown) for FAD to become current, but most processing and EAD/AP could be carried out in the meantime. Even if FAD current, normal processing times would apply.



Now I've answered, you can too. I've probably missed something, or misunderstood what your question was.

[kb2013]

< >

[AceMan]

I'm not sure I entirely understand the question.

Interms of process, there might be some differences I could see.

a) Same employer as approved EB2 I-140

This would need a new I-140 for EB3 as well as I-485 package(s) to be produced before filing.

However, the new I-140 would be basically a copy/paste of the existing approved one, bar the EB category, so not sure how that would cause a problem timewise.

No PP of I-140, so several months wait for approval, but this would probably be less than I-485 processing time.

Since it would be a concurrent filing, no 485-J supplement would be required.

There would be a wait time (unknown) for FAD to become current, but most processing and EAD/AP could be carried out in the meantime. Even if FAD current, normal processing times would apply.



This is what I am trying to understand. So for a guy in June 2009 with EB2, goes for EB3 I-140 filing in the above scenario takes 6 months to complete the EB3 part. He gets his EAD also approved in the same time. In the mean time if the EB2 FAD moves past the June 2009 date, what can he do? Go back to EB2? This is what I see as an absolute waste of resources and time.But as I said earlier, my opinion might be clouded by the fact that I have an Eb3 petition.

[HarepathekaIntezar]

This is what I am trying to understand. So for a guy in June 2009 with EB2, goes for EB3 I-140 filing in the above scenario takes 6 months to complete the EB3 part. He gets his EAD also approved in the same time. In the mean time if the EB2 FAD moves past the June 2009 date, what can he do? Go back to EB2? This is what I see as an absolute waste of resources and time.But as I said earlier, my opinion might be clouded by the fact that I have an Eb3 petition.

I don't like to use the Pending Inventory, but that is the only data point we have. So, per PI, EB1 7,557.00, EB2=18,223.00, EB3=1,696.00. It is a no brainer to Port to EB3. So, my advice for EB2 upgraded folks who are current in EB3 should file in EB3 without any doubt in their mind. The only factor that could favor EB2I que is if there is huge SO from EB2ROW. What do the gurus think about that scenario?

[AceMan]

I don't like to use the Pending Inventory, but that is the only data point we have. So, per PI, EB1 7,557.00, EB2=18,223.00, EB3=1,696.00. It is a no brainer to Port to EB3. So, my advice for EB2 upgraded folks who are current in EB3 should file in EB3 without any doubt in their mind. The only factor that could favor EB2I que is if there is huge SO from EB2ROW. What do the gurus think about that scenario?

It may be no brainer for the person who is porting. However we need to realize time factor is important. Visa's are use it or lose it every year. I will give you a time line of visa loss for EB3 from FY 2010 - 2017. The lost number for EB3 is 14277 for this time period.

EB1, EB2, EB3, Other, 3Total - EB Total, FY
===============================---
41,026 53,872 37,669 4,762 42,431 - 150,657 2010 EB3 - 657 short
25,229 66,804 33,734 3,691 37,425 - 140,000 2011 EB3 - 2615 short
39,387 50,593 35,457 4,092 39,549 - 144,951 2012 EB3 - 1907 short
39,058 63,461 40,774 2,966 43,740 - 140,000
40,608 49,071 40,428 2,271 42,699 - 150,241 2014 EB3 - 270 short
41,990 44,479 35,421 2,029 37,450 - 144,796 2015 EB3 - 3962 short
43,723 39,111 33,669 3,871 37,540 - 140,338 2016 EB3 - 2596 short
41,828 39,961 34,938 2,832 37,770 - 140,000 2017 EB3 - 2270 short


10 years back, we had tons and tons of debates why EB2 is a class apart even though technically 90% the positions in EB2 should have been EB3. People fought in their company for their EB2. Now when they see EB3 moving forward, have really no qualms to downgrade at the first available opportunity, even though their EB2 dates might be current soon.

So my point is, people have an EB3 with former employer, can go ahead and use it without any problem. Once you get your GC, you can work multiple jobs/W2's/1099, so you can even satisfy the future employment criteria as well.

If you used an EB2 porting for your existing EB3 petition, tough luck if your company or attorney is not receptive of your downgrade request. This is employment GC we are talking about, and even though Spec say that as baloney, I agree with the Attorney/Employer view on this.

I even have a personal situation when me and a colleague of mine were the only H1's in our team a decade back. We both had our GC's filed in late 2010, he had a Dec 2010 and I had a Feb 2011 both in EB3. Our career path was also had similar as we got promoted to senior roles in 2014. We were eligible for EB2 upgrades, we discussed with each other and my colleague upgraded while I did not. At that time, he was expecting the GC or EAD to happen very soon, and he also pro-actively went and did the medicals during September 2015 only to face the reversal. He was very upset when I told him that you could have waited for few more days. Spend lot of money on advocacy and what not, but no avail.

Even though his date is late 2010, he contacted the attorney to see if they can activate the original EB3 petition. The attorneys pretty much said what the other users have posted with respect to companies ability to file for EB2 in future if the candidate activate a prior EB3 petition. He is trying to get a Sr. VP level authorization to HR to downgrade his petition. But his direct manager (Indian-USC) warned against that approach as it might result unnecessary scrutiny with respect to hiring of visa candidates for positions. So every person he talks to, work from the angle benefitting them.

Again I reiterate, I have an EB3 petition, so my opinions will be biased on this subject.

[rocketfast]

I have a EB2-I PD of March 2011 - way far out. But I did drop a email to my company's immigration team about filing a new I-140 in EB3 and also asked about company's (large silicon valley company) policy around this. The response I got was that, the company will be okay applying for a new I-140 and "downgrade" after the EB3-I priority date passes March 2011. They will not apply for a new I-140 in advance. I can understand their rationale as there likely are hundreds of people in my situation and they do not want to apply 100s of duplicate I-140s.

So based on my limited reading of trackitt posts and here, it looks like, extra I-140 application in advance is likely easier in smaller companies. But many large companies will wait out a bit, till there is a tsunami of requests.

It also tells me that (assuming my mainstream employer is how many other employers behave), once EB3-I date advances past April 2010, people in EB2-I will start applying for I-485 in EB3 and that is when the movement in dates will slow down to a crawl.

[AceMan]

I have a EB2-I PD of March 2011 - way far out. But I did drop a email to my company's immigration team about filing a new I-140 in EB3 and also asked about company's (large silicon valley company) policy around this. The response I got was that, the company will be okay applying for a new I-140 and "downgrade" after the EB3-I priority date passes March 2011. They will not apply for a new I-140 in advance. I can understand their rationale as there likely are hundreds of people in my situation and they do not want to apply 100s of duplicate I-140s.

So based on my limited reading of trackitt posts and here, it looks like, extra I-140 application in advance is likely easier in smaller companies. But many large companies will wait out a bit, till there is a tsunami of requests.

It also tells me that (assuming my mainstream employer is how many other employers behave), once EB3-I date advances past April 2010, people in EB2-I will start applying for I-485 in EB3 and that is when the movement in dates will slow down to a crawl.

For FY 18, Eb2/3 India got a combined visa of around 9500 numbers (6603 + 2879). This year I expect this combined number to be over 10,000.

I re-analyzed the numbers, and I can see that disparity between EB2 and EB3 is so high that people are definitely going to choose the faster route anyways if they can (Approved I-140's. EB2- 216,000 EB3 -55,000 till 2018) .

So from now on for all practical purpose I am going see EB2 and 3 as one queue, with the filing numbers favoring EB3 for a while.
We need to factor in that not many from July 2007 have not yet been greened yet, which might hold the EB3 final dates on Jan 1st 2009 for the next bulletin as well, while Eb2 I might advance couple of weeks.

I would say Eb3 FAD moving past EB2 will happen earliest by Jan, again dependent on how many EB3 filers are already there.

[march1612]

For FY 18, Eb2/3 India got a combined visa of around 9500 numbers (6603 + 2879). This year I expect this combined number to be over 10,000.

I re-analyzed the numbers, and I can see that disparity between EB2 and EB3 is so high that people are definitely going to choose the faster route anyways if they can (Approved I-140's. EB2- 216,000 EB3 -55,000 till 2018) .

So from now on for all practical purpose I am going see EB2 and 3 as one queue, with the filing numbers favoring EB3 for a while.
We need to factor in that not many from July 2007 have not yet been greened yet, which might hold the EB3 final dates on Jan 1st 2009 for the next bulletin as well, while Eb2 I might advance couple of weeks.

I would say Eb3 FAD moving past EB2 will happen earliest by Jan, again dependent on how many EB3 filers are already there.

AceMan,


When do you expect EB2 final action dates to reach May 2010?

[AceMan]

AceMan,


When do you expect EB2 final action dates to reach May 2010?

Lets see, as per July DD we have about 15,500 for 2009 though to May 2010. Take 1000 out for first 3 months, we might be starting the FY 19 with around 14,500. These are the active people who have done their AOS. There is very limited chance for this crowd to downgrade to EB3.


However if the people, EB2 porters with no AOS, use EB3 to do AOS, these people will not get added to EB2 queue all. Since most of the original EB2 filers till May 2010 have done the adjustment already, we can hope the 14500 along with few more would be the actual numbers. I will ball park it to 16,000.

For FY 18 Eb2 I would have got about 4000-5000 visas. So with around 5000 visas a year, EB2 I will take 3 years to reach May 2010. If we get 8000 it will be 2 years from now.

I have to say the EB2 people without AOS is in a tough spot, and they should migrate if it is possible. I know, It is a change from my previous stance over the last few post, but as I said I was biased based on my personal EB3 situation.

[march1612]

Lets see, as per July DD we have about 15,500 for 2009 though to May 2010. Take 1000 out for first 3 months, we might be starting the FY 19 with around 14,500. These are the active people who have done their AOS. There is very limited chance for this crowd to downgrade to EB3.


However if the people, EB2 porters with no AOS, use EB3 to do AOS, these people will not get added to EB2 queue all. Since most of the original EB2 filers till May 2010 have done the adjustment already, we can hope the 14500 along with few more would be the actual numbers. I will ball park it to 16,000.

For FY 18 Eb2 I would have got about 4000-5000 visas. So with around 5000 visas a year, EB2 I will take 3 years to reach May 2010. If we get 8000 it will be 2 years from now.

I have to say the EB2 people without AOS is in a tough spot, and they should migrate if it is possible. I know, It is a change from my previous stance over the last few post, but as I said I was biased based on my personal EB3 situation.


Thanks AceMan.

Can you confirm if those 8000 spill overs are from EB2-ROW?

Are we expecting any vertical spill over to EB2-India this year? If yes, how much would that be, since EB1-India is in retro?

[AceMan]

Nothing vertical for FY 2019. That is the only absolute fact here. There was a some I-140 approved document earlier this May, which showed there are 34,000 EB1 India already. EB2 hopes are all horizontal only. Any leftovers from EB3 also goes to EB1 as Spec has explained some time back.

[4WatItsWorth]

Lets see, as per July DD we have about 15,500 for 2009 though to May 2010. Take 1000 out for first 3 months, we might be starting the FY 19 with around 14,500. These are the active people who have done their AOS. There is very limited chance for this crowd to downgrade to EB3.


However if the people, EB2 porters with no AOS, use EB3 to do AOS, these people will not get added to EB2 queue all. Since most of the original EB2 filers till May 2010 have done the adjustment already, we can hope the 14500 along with few more would be the actual numbers. I will ball park it to 16,000.

For FY 18 Eb2 I would have got about 4000-5000 visas. So with around 5000 visas a year, EB2 I will take 3 years to reach May 2010. If we get 8000 it will be 2 years from now.

I have to say the EB2 people without AOS is in a tough spot, and they should migrate if it is possible. I know, It is a change from my previous stance over the last few post, but as I said I was biased based on my personal EB3 situation.What is your prediction about EB3-I filing dates — will they continue to get accepted, move back, move forward...? What do you think about EB2 filing dates?

[siriyal75]

There is a increase in H1 denial rate for Q3/Q4 for 2017/18, which may increase RoW spill over this year, if the trend continues...
Only RoW denial counts, India denial won't count as its backlogged.

[Gc-dedo]

@Aceman

Eb2 guys have aos until may 2010. Now eb3 guys will have aos til oct 2009. So what is preventing uscis in moving filing date for eb2 to oct 2009? I see not many people are in that range wating on aos. Moving to eb3 will take around 6 to 8 months for i-140 to be approved. It might be less hassle in waiting in eb2 queue since they might move date to oct 2009 in two monts?

[HarepathekaIntezar]

It is precisely because of the bottlenecks that Aceman and others have quoted for candidates wanting to downgrade to EB3 that it makes all the more sense for anyone who is able to downgrade to go for it. A lot of candidates cannot do that. Only the bold will get lucky. Those who hesitate will possibly miss the boat!

[Gc-dedo]

@Aceman

Since many EB2 with priority date May 2010 have AOS and now Eb3 have AOS Oct 2009. Do you think USCIS move the filing date of EB2 to Oct 2009. I was wondering instead of starting a new I-140 application which might take 6 to 8 months for approval, EB2 can probably wait for 1 or 2 months and USCIS move the filing date to Oct 2009. Do you think it might happen?

[AceMan]

@Aceman

Eb2 guys have aos until may 2010. Now eb3 guys will have aos til oct 2009. So what is preventing uscis in moving filing date for eb2 to oct 2009? I see not many people are in that range wating on aos. Moving to eb3 will take around 6 to 8 months for i-140 to be approved. It might be less hassle in waiting in eb2 queue since they might move date to oct 2009 in two monts?

First the FD and FAD are set by DHS, USCIS has the option to respect whichever they feel comfortable. EB2 I because of AOS data, have a finite set already. I expect EB2 Filing date to match EB3 I next bulletin if CO is serious about getting an accurate count. If the FD's don't match we get more confusion and chaos for FY 19.

[AceMan]

It is precisely because of the bottlenecks that Aceman and others have quoted for candidates wanting to downgrade to EB3 that it makes all the more sense for anyone who is able to downgrade to go for it. A lot of candidates cannot do that. Only the bold will get lucky. Those who hesitate will possibly miss the boat!

Yes, even though I don't like it because of my personal EB3 situation, People beyond August 2009 in EB2I who don't have an AOS should give a serious thought to this.
If you a previous petition with an old employer, a good chance to renew the old relation, that would be the best step. Joining back the employer after GC is easy, because you can work many jobs unlike H1 which is restrictive.


People with EB2 petition alone, beyond May 2010 are in a very tough situation. They should watch the movement in the next couple of months and try and get a new 140. I literally hate this idea, as this will result in double counting of I140 inventory and messes up forward movement, but with high EB1 demand and no SO, Eb2 guys have no better choice.

[texas_]

Yes, even though I don't like it because of my personal EB3 situation, People beyond August 2009 in EB2I who don't have an AOS should give a serious thought to this.
If you a previous petition with an old employer, a good chance to renew the old relation, that would be the best step. Joining back the employer after GC is easy, because you can work many jobs unlike H1 which is restrictive.


People with EB2 petition alone, beyond May 2010 are in a very tough situation. They should watch the movement in the next couple of months and try and get a new 140. I literally hate this idea, as this will result in double counting of I140 inventory and messes up forward movement, but with high EB1 demand and no SO, Eb2 guys have no better choice.

Hey Ace,

Do you have an estimate of how much is the Inventory for EB2 and EB3 India having approved I 140 by FY?

[AceMan]

Hey Ace,

Do you have an estimate of how much is the Inventory for EB2 and EB3 India having approved I 140 by FY?

No we don’t have that information yearly. We only have one big number till early 2018. 216 k Eb2I, 55k Eb3 I

[texas_]

No we don’t have that information yearly. We only have one big number till early 2018. 216 k Eb2I, 55k Eb3 I


Oh i see. Based on numbers you have provided there are around:
216K EB2 I with approved I 140 in queue and 55K EB3 I with approved I 140 in queue yet to file AOS


If above statement is true then there were 4 times EB2 filed after FY2011 than EB3. If you prorate 55K/ 10 FTY (i.e FY 2009 to FY 2018) = 5500 EB3 I on average by FY. It could be more or less 15-20% may be.

I was just ball parking it

[AceMan]

Oh i see. Based on numbers you have provided there are around:
216K EB2 I with approved I 140 in queue and 55K EB3 I with approved I 140 in queue yet to file AOS


If above statement is true then there were 4 times EB2 filed after FY2011 than EB3. If you prorate 55K/ 10 FTY (i.e FY 2009 to FY 2018) = 5500 EB3 I on average by FY. It could be more or less 15-20% may be.

I was just ball parking it

I have been doing the reverse calculation, just to give a different perspective, we have about 85,000 H4EAD's till Dec 2017. This means at the very minimum, we have same number of primaries also. So there will be
atleast 170,000 people waiting for EB GC who are on H1's. L1's excluded.

Hence the range till Dec 2017 would be anywhere between 170,000 to 650,000 (216,0000 + 55,000 + average dependents provided in that worksheet) for both EB2 and 3 India. I know, it is not the kind of range we want to see to make any useful calculations. But I take out 30-40% out from 650,000 (Duplicate filings/spouses with H1's/abandoned) for my calculation. So excluding the higher outliers my deduction of the total people waiting for AOS in Eb2/3 from India would be between

250,000 - 450,000 till 2018. I have used my assumptions (read salt and spices) here

[HarepathekaIntezar]

Yes, even though I don't like it because of my personal EB3 situation, People beyond August 2009 in EB2I who don't have an AOS should give a serious thought to this.
If you a previous petition with an old employer, a good chance to renew the old relation, that would be the best step. Joining back the employer after GC is easy, because you can work many jobs unlike H1 which is restrictive.


People with EB2 petition alone, beyond May 2010 are in a very tough situation. They should watch the movement in the next couple of months and try and get a new 140. I literally hate this idea, as this will result in double counting of I140 inventory and messes up forward movement, but with high EB1 demand and no SO, Eb2 guys have no better choice.

I would say anybody who can file in EB3 should file, irrespective of whether filed AOS already in EB2 or not. For this FY, that would be the smart move. The early bird catches the worm!

[AceMan]

I would say anybody who can file in EB3 should file, irrespective of whether filed AOS already in EB2 or not. For this FY, that would be the smart move. The early bird catches the worm!

:-D Or you can be the early worm to get caught !!!! The EB3 filing does not happen like a flip of the switch and it is time consuming. People in EB2 already with AOS will get the Card in mail, why would they change it and go the EB3 route to take an interview to get the card?

[texas_]

:-D Or you can be the early worm to get caught !!!! The EB3 filing does not happen like a flip of the switch and it is time consuming. People in EB2 already with AOS will get the Card in mail, why would they change it and go the EB3 route to take an interview to get the card?

Peeps who already have EAD wouldn't worry too much about this. It might be for people with PD > May 2010

[AceMan]

Peeps who already have EAD wouldn't worry too much about this. It might be for people with PD > May 2010

People beyond May 2010 need to Take a serious look at this option. Eb3 numbers are just too low to ignore this. If Eb3 does not utilize the full quota the only guys benefited are Eb1’s.

[mknop1]

Experts, i have a question for you. My PD is 15 June 2010 in EB2. I switched my employer recently(Consulting to Full time) and an have started my PERM process recently. My PERM will be filed in about 30 days for EB2(not sure if PERM has EB2/EB3 classification). Question is:
Given the current situation, should i file in EB3 or EB2 ?
Given that I will file my PERM & subsequently I-140, at what point of time should I 'switch' to EB3 if I intend to port my PD ?
Would appreciate your thoughts on this.

[AceMan]

Experts, i have a question for you. My PD is 15 June 2010 in EB2. I switched my employer recently(Consulting to Full time) and an have started my PERM process recently. My PERM will be filed in about 30 days for EB2(not sure if PERM has EB2/EB3 classification). Question is:
Given the current situation, should i file in EB3 or EB2 ?
Given that I will file my PERM & subsequently I-140, at what point of time should I 'switch' to EB3 if I intend to port my PD ?
Would appreciate your thoughts on this.

At this point go with EB3 if you can. We can say with almost 99% certainty that EB3 would surpass EB2 for your PD. Keep good relation with your former employer if you want to activate the prior EB2 petition if needed.

[mknop1]

At this point go with EB3 if you can. We can say with almost 99% certainty that EB3 would surpass EB2 for your PD. Keep good relation with your former employer if you want to activate the prior EB2 petition if needed.

How do i go with EB3 ? Do I file my PERM in EB3 or my I-140 with EB3 ? How do i port my EB2 PD to this new EB3 application ? Also, regarding former employer, you are suggesting that in case I file with EB3 and EB2 dates move forward, i could use my previous EB2 application with my old employer ?

[apniceone]

How do i go with EB3 ? Do I file my PERM in EB3 or my I-140 with EB3 ? How do i port my EB2 PD to this new EB3 application ? Also, regarding former employer, you are suggesting that in case I file with EB3 and EB2 dates move forward, i could use my previous EB2 application with my old employer ?

Gurus can confirm but below is my input:
classification of Eb2 vs EB3 is at I-140 level. For PD porting you need previous i140 approval notice and lawyers can take care rest. If EB2 moves forward you need to ask your previous employer to file I485 and intention to join your employer when greened. You can't do EB2 with current employer at that time.

[HarepathekaIntezar]

Experts, i have a question for you. My PD is 15 June 2010 in EB2. I switched my employer recently(Consulting to Full time) and an have started my PERM process recently. My PERM will be filed in about 30 days for EB2(not sure if PERM has EB2/EB3 classification). Question is:
Given the current situation, should i file in EB3 or EB2 ?
Given that I will file my PERM & subsequently I-140, at what point of time should I 'switch' to EB3 if I intend to port my PD ?
Would appreciate your thoughts on this.

Bro, don't believe all sorts of illogical advice being dished out by vested interests. Let the PERM be filed in EB2 in premium processing. Once PERM approved, then you can take a decision, which que to join. I think you can file I-140 in Eb2 or Eb3 with an EB2 Perm. Whereas if you have EB3 PERM, then you can only file in EB3 and not in EB2.

[AceMan]

How do i go with EB3 ? Do I file my PERM in EB3 or my I-140 with EB3 ? How do i port my EB2 PD to this new EB3 application ? Also, regarding former employer, you are suggesting that in case I file with EB3 and EB2 dates move forward, i could use my previous EB2 application with my old employer ?

You can check it here.

https://www.murthy.com/2011/07/15/eb2-or-eb3-understanding-the-difference/

[sdesh005]

Bro, don't believe all sorts of illogical advice being dished out by vested interests. Let the PERM be filed in EB2 in premium processing. Once PERM approved, then you can take a decision, which que to join. I think you can file I-140 in Eb2 or Eb3 with an EB2 Perm. Whereas if you have EB3 PERM, then you can only file in EB3 and not in EB2.
PERM with premium processing? :confused::eek:

[HarepathekaIntezar]

PERM with premium processing? :confused::eek:

Not available for PERM? :rolleyes: Well, I am a dinosaur I guess..

[vicks23]

Hi experts,
I have just got my perm approved for Eb2. Now ready to file I140. My priority date is Dec 2010. I have couple of questions and not sure which direction to proceed.
a) Shall I downgrade i140 to eb3 and file it in?
b) Shall I file it in eb2 itself and if my priority date become current for eb3 then do the i140 and 785 again in eb3? will it be feasible?
c) Shall I just wait and do nothing for next 6 months and see which direction these dates move?

[HarepathekaIntezar]

Hi experts,
I have just got my perm approved for Eb2. Now ready to file I140. My priority date is Dec 2010. I have couple of questions and not sure which direction to proceed.
a) Shall I downgrade i140 to eb3 and file it in?
b) Shall I file it in eb2 itself and if my priority date become current for eb3 then do the i140 and 785 again in eb3? will it be feasible?
c) Shall I just wait and do nothing for next 6 months and see which direction these dates move?

If it was me, I would file in both EB2 and also EB3 (in Premium where possible). If money is an issue, file in EB3. When you become current in EB2, you can always go for concurrent filing.

[dev2010]

Hi experts,
I have just got my perm approved for Eb2. Now ready to file I140. My priority date is Dec 2010. I have couple of questions and not sure which direction to proceed.
a) Shall I downgrade i140 to eb3 and file it in?
b) Shall I file it in eb2 itself and if my priority date become current for eb3 then do the i140 and 785 again in eb3? will it be feasible?
c) Shall I just wait and do nothing for next 6 months and see which direction these dates move?


I believe you already have I-140. Why don't you wait a little before making the decision. You have 6 months after PERM approval to file I-140. You can wait for 3-4 months to get a clear picture.

[vicks23]

If it was me, I would file in both EB2 and also EB3 (in Premium where possible). If money is an issue, file in EB3. When you become current in EB2, you can always go for concurrent filing.
Thanks, so what you are saying that I can file I140 in both the categories simultaneously. Need to check with Company lawyer whether they will do it or not.


I believe you already have I-140. Why don't you wait a little before making the decision. You have 6 months after PERM approval to file I-140. You can wait for 3-4 months to get a clear picture.
Yes and that is one of option I am also thinking but again with corporate world sometime you want to do the things as it is available.

Another question hypothetically that you have EB2 I140 approved and ur date become current for EB3 category. Can you do the downgrade and file I140 & 485 simultaneously in EB3 in the same month OR it is not possible?

[AceMan]

Hi experts,
I have just got my perm approved for Eb2. Now ready to file I140. My priority date is Dec 2010. I have couple of questions and not sure which direction to proceed.
a) Shall I downgrade i140 to eb3 and file it in?
b) Shall I file it in eb2 itself and if my priority date become current for eb3 then do the i140 and 785 again in eb3? will it be feasible?
c) Shall I just wait and do nothing for next 6 months and see which direction these dates move?

Logically looking at the available data, EB2-I from March 2009 - May 2010 has 15000 waiting for their GC already with AOS. They are definitely not going to risk porting down. Also people in EB2 till May 09 who did not do AOS earlier will still go with EB2 considering the extra task for going back to EB3.

This means even with around 8000 visa's a year will take 2 years (September 2020) to clear May 2010. So if you stay with EB2, the earliest you can get an AOS would be 2021.

EB3 is an unknown angel and if the dates move forward like how EB2 did in early 2012, you might get a chance to file 485 as well along with 140 within the next 6 months. So my recommendation would be to wait for next couple of months, and if the filing dates indeed move past your PD in 2010, then go for it in EB3. That way you can mitigate the unknowns and have a better understanding of your options with Points A or B within next 6 months. .

[h1bh1bh1b]

My priority date is 1st sep 2009 and moved from EB3 to EB2. And do not have EAD.
But since EB3 has Oct1st ,Am I eligible to file under EB3 without porting back ?

My lawer says,I can.
My friends lawer said , not sure.

I am trying to get opinion from one more lawyer. But like to know if any one of you from the same boat?

Thanks

[apniceone]

My EB2 PD is Sep 2010 . If i ask my company to file for EB3 - I140, in case of any issues with EB3- I140 does my EB2-I140 still valid and can be used for I485?

[delguy]

My priority date is 1st sep 2009 and moved from EB3 to EB2. And do not have EAD.
But since EB3 has Oct1st ,Am I eligible to file under EB3 without porting back ?

My lawer says,I can.
My friends lawer said , not sure.

I am trying to get opinion from one more lawyer. But like to know if any one of you from the same boat?

Thanks
yes you are as long as your company supports you and provide you the needed documents. may be the other lawyer dont want to make a comment without looking at all the facts of the case and used the generic "not sure" answer. However, your company lawyer has all the facts and his answer is what you should go with.

[Desi Dude]

My priority date is 1st sep 2009 and moved from EB3 to EB2. And do not have EAD.
But since EB3 has Oct1st ,Am I eligible to file under EB3 without porting back ?

My lawer says,I can.
My friends lawer said , not sure.

I am trying to get opinion from one more lawyer. But like to know if any one of you from the same boat?

Thanks


That would not be called porting. You already have approved EB3 & EB2 I-140s. You just need to send an email to USCIS asking them to use EB3 I-140 instead.

[HarepathekaIntezar]

That would not be called porting. You already have approved EB3 & EB2 I-140s. You just need to send an email to USCIS asking them to use EB3 I-140 instead.

First AOS has to be filed in EB3, after filing AOS, if USCIS asks a question, then reply. From what has been described here, I do not see anything that would require any clarification. It is a straight forward case in EB3 with no complications.

[HarepathekaIntezar]

My EB2 PD is Sep 2010 . If i ask my company to file for EB3 - I140, in case of any issues with EB3- I140 does my EB2-I140 still valid and can be used for I485?

Ask the question to the lawyer who filed those docs bro.

[apniceone]

I didn't request my company yet, i even doubt if they allow this. Will check with then when i decided to move forward.

[srimurthy]

Logically looking at the available data, EB2-I from March 2009 - May 2010 has 15000 waiting for their GC already with AOS. They are definitely not going to risk porting down. Also people in EB2 till May 09 who did not do AOS earlier will still go with EB2 considering the extra task for going back to EB3.

This means even with around 8000 visa's a year will take 2 years (September 2020) to clear May 2010. So if you stay with EB2, the earliest you can get an AOS would be 2021.

EB3 is an unknown angel and if the dates move forward like how EB2 did in early 2012, you might get a chance to file 485 as well along with 140 within the next 6 months. So my recommendation would be to wait for next couple of months, and if the filing dates indeed move past your PD in 2010, then go for it in EB3. That way you can mitigate the unknowns and have a better understanding of your options with Points A or B within next 6 months. .

Do we not have a time limit within which a 140 has to be applied for after the PERM approval?

[dev2010]

Time Limit is 6 months

[Spectator]

Time Limit is 6 months

I know a lot of articles say 6 months, but to be pedantic, the certified PERM is valid for 180 days (which may be less than 6 months).


20 CFR 656.30 - Validity of and invalidation of labor certifications.

(b)Expiration of labor certifications.

For certifications resulting from applications filed under this part and 20 CFR part 656 in effect prior to March 28, 2005, the following applies:

(1) An approved permanent labor certification granted on or after July 16, 2007 expires if not filed in support of a Form I-140 petition with the Department of Homeland Security within 180 calendar days of the date the Department of Labor granted the certification.

https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/20/656.30

[HarepathekaIntezar]

https://www.murthy.com/2018/10/02/newsflash-uscis-goes-back-using-dates-filing-chart-oct-2018-visa-bulletin-categories/
All the more reason for vacillators to jump in and file!

[tenyearsgone]

https://www.murthy.com/2018/10/02/newsflash-uscis-goes-back-using-dates-filing-chart-oct-2018-visa-bulletin-categories/
All the more reason for vacillators to jump in and file!

What are the options to downgrade for folks with I-485 filed in EB2 (2009/2010) who have since changed jobs using AC21 and want to continue with current employer? Would a new Perm be needed?

[HarepathekaIntezar]

What are the options to downgrade for folks with I-485 filed in EB2 (2009/2010) who have since changed jobs using AC21 and want to continue with current employer? Would a new Perm be needed?

Check with your attorney bro. A simple email or phone call should do that.

[AceMan]

What are the options to downgrade for folks with I-485 filed in EB2 (2009/2010) who have since changed jobs using AC21 and want to continue with current employer? Would a new Perm be needed?


If you already have an EAD, and you can be considerate to the people who are following you by staying on with what you have already.

Please strongly discourage any body who already have an EAD in EB2 downgrading to EB3. The money and the fees you pay might be yours, but the resource allocated for your task, can be useful for another candidate who even don't have an EAD.

EB3 final dates are still behind EB2, and no much people beyond July 2007 in EB3 is greened yet.

[asankaran]

If you already have an EAD, and you can be considerate to the people who are following you by staying on with what you have already.

Please strongly discourage any body who already have an EAD in EB2 downgrading to EB3. The money and the fees you pay might be yours, but the resource allocated for your task, can be useful for another candidate who even don't have an EAD.

EB3 final dates are still behind EB2, and no much people beyond July 2007 in EB3 is greened yet.

I don't know where was this consideration when so many legitimate EB2 folks could have greened were sacrificed at the altar of EB3-EB2 porting using the same priority date. I would say as long as it is legal, affordable and possible go for it. It's not worth staying a single day more in this line.

[AceMan]

I don't know where was this consideration when so many legitimate EB2 folks could have greened were sacrificed at the altar of EB3-EB2 porting using the same priority date. I would say as long as it is legal, affordable and possible go for it. It's not worth staying a single day more in this line.


The very fact an Eb2 person considering downgrading to EB3 indicates that his original petition was actually meant to be for EB3 category. Also Eb2 was getting 25 K per year till 2014 while EB3 was not even hitting the mandated quota. So technically there was no sacrifice till 2015 as you imply. Anyways that is a sticky topic and is not the scope of the point what I really meant.
I will rephrase what I said, just in case you missed. Any person who already has an EAD with EB2 (till May 2010) downgrading to EB3 within next 2-3 months is just not worth it at this time, as the final dates of EB3 is still Jan 2009 and we have no seen any flood of EB3 I greened for 2008 itself, while EB2 I has lot of cases of 2009 PD getting greened.


If you have just an EB2 petition beyond 2009 without an EAD, it is a decision worth considering.

[srimurthy]

The very fact an Eb2 person considering downgrading to EB3 indicates that his original petition was actually meant to be for EB3 category. Also Eb2 was getting 25 K per year till 2014 while EB3 was not even hitting the mandated quota. So technically there was no sacrifice till 2015 as you imply. Anyways that is a sticky topic and is not the scope of the point what I really meant.
I will rephrase what I said, just in case you missed. Any person who already has an EAD with EB2 (till May 2010) downgrading to EB3 within next 2-3 months is just not worth it at this time, as the final dates of EB3 is still Jan 2009 and we have no seen any flood of EB3 I greened for 2008 itself, while EB2 I has lot of cases of 2009 PD getting greened.


If you have just an EB2 petition beyond 2009 without an EAD, it is a decision worth considering.

I guess people will look at all options to see where can they get greened faster. I heard the rejection rates for H1 have increased and personally seen a few people with EB3 dates in 2010 and 11 whose H1s got cancelled and are now moving back to India. The DL's have also become an issue as now a days they are only valid till the date of visa or I-94 whereas earlier it was with a grace period of 3 months. So the squeeze is happening in all possible ways

[EB2/eb3]

I guess people will look at all options to see where can they get greened faster. I heard the rejection rates for H1 have increased and personally seen a few people with EB3 dates in 2010 and 11 whose H1s got cancelled and are now moving back to India. The DL's have also become an issue as now a days they are only valid till the date of visa or I-94 whereas earlier it was with a grace period of 3 months. So the squeeze is happening in all possible ways
Hi, what do you mean by h1s got cancelled? Did u mean their extensions got denied?

[AceMan]

I guess people will look at all options to see where can they get greened faster. I heard the rejection rates for H1 have increased and personally seen a few people with EB3 dates in 2010 and 11 whose H1s got cancelled and are now moving back to India. The DL's have also become an issue as now a days they are only valid till the date of visa or I-94 whereas earlier it was with a grace period of 3 months. So the squeeze is happening in all possible ways

Absolutely, I agree with every thing you said here.Got to add, it is not only getting Greened, the bar has now reduced to atleast having an employment based EAD due to the H1 concerns you listed here along with uncertainty of H4 EAD as well.

However it is prudent to inform people who are thinking of porting when they already have an EAD, with the facts based on the available data at this time. The information today is different from the information after a week when the November bulletin is released.

If the filing dates are throttled, or not respected by DHS/USCIS then all these porter people would achieve is getting another EAD which is absolutely useless for them and they just used up another persons option of getting EAD. But again, it is only my opinion, people do whatever they think is appropriate from their individual perspective.

[EB2/eb3]

Absolutely, I agree with every thing you said here.Got to add, it is not only getting Greened, the bar has now reduced to atleast having an employment based EAD due to the H1 concerns you listed here along with uncertainty of H4 EAD as well.

However it is prudent to inform people who are thinking of porting when they already have an EAD, with the facts based on the available data at this time. The information today is different from the information after a week when the November bulletin is released.

If the filing dates are throttled, or not respected by DHS/USCIS then all these porter people would achieve is getting another EAD which is absolutely useless for them and they just used up another persons option of getting EAD. But again, it is only my opinion, people do whatever they think is appropriate from their individual perspective.

Even if Filing dates are honored how is it going to benefit eb2i with EAD? Don’t we actually have to wait for FADs to move?

[AceMan]

Even if Filing dates are honored how is it going to benefit eb2i with EAD? Don’t we actually have to wait for FADs to move?

It is basically porting to EB3 in anticipation of EB3 I FAD movement for FY 19. If a person in EB2 say September 2009 downgraded and got a new EB3 140/485 filed, his petition got approved within 4 months, and if the EB3 FAD moves beyond September 2009 in the mean time he gets his GC. Since his new EB3 petition is not counted in the previous 55 K released earlier, his EB2 140 /485 will not be dropped until EB2 FAD goes past his date.

Based on the PERM for 2009/2010 we have 11000 and 29000 applicants. For 2009 PD, upto May 2009 we had about 4000 (primaries + dependents) cleared in 2014. In all probability we should have anywhere between 35k-40 K people waiting to do AOS for both EB2 and 3. We don't know the split ups yet, but down porting will skew that number a lot and in the end EB3 as usual will get throttled again.

[EB2/eb3]

It is basically porting to EB3 in anticipation of EB3 I FAD movement for FY 19. If a person in EB2 say September 2009 downgraded and got a new EB3 140/485 filed, his petition got approved within 4 months, and if the EB3 FAD moves beyond September 2009 in the mean time he gets his GC. Since his new EB3 petition is not counted in the previous 55 K released earlier, his EB2 140 /485 will not be dropped until EB2 FAD goes past his date.

Based on the PERM for 2009/2010 we have 11000 and 29000 applicants. For 2009 PD, upto May 2009 we had about 4000 (primaries + dependents) cleared in 2014. In all probability we should have anywhere between 35k-40 K people waiting to do AOS for both EB2 and 3. We don't know the split ups yet, but down porting will skew that number a lot and in the end EB3 as usual will get throttled again.
July PI shows 10k in EB2, does this mean the rest 25k -30k are eb3?

[AceMan]

July PI shows 10k in EB2, does this mean the rest 25k -30k are eb3?

10 k included dependents as well. For clarity if we use 1:1 we may have 5 k primaries. So the remaining numbers 30-35 k are people who did not do Aos. They can be in either 2 or 3. Applying the same 1:1 for 2010 we have another 2k primaries for Eb2 who already did aos. My estimate shows that we might have got over 10k Eb gc’s in 2 and 3 for Fy18. The moment of truth will be when they release the statistics in December for 2018

[tenyearsgone]

If you already have an EAD, and you can be considerate to the people who are following you by staying on with what you have already.

Please strongly discourage any body who already have an EAD in EB2 downgrading to EB3. The money and the fees you pay might be yours, but the resource allocated for your task, can be useful for another candidate who even don't have an EAD.

EB3 final dates are still behind EB2, and no much people beyond July 2007 in EB3 is greened yet.


I feel everyone has to evaluate their options and their personal situations (time, health, family, career, opportunity costs, tightening immigration etc etc ) and go with what they need to do. Eb3->Eb2 upgraders, EB1C applicants and everyone else is doing the best they can in their situations..

In any case, my question was to just understand the possibilities and keep myself informed.

[IamGSN]

Hi, I have been following these both these threads, which has been quite helpful to gauge where I am in GC queue. Thanks everyone. Here is my case, my PD is EB2-India July 2009. Initially my case was filed under EB3 and then it was ported to EB2 later. I checked with Attorney whether I can use my EB3 I-140 and file I-485. He mentioned that I can file under EB2 or EB3, as retaining PD will not invalidate EB3 or EB2 filing, both are two seperate things. Now I am confused whether I should go ahead and file under EB3 or wait for some time and decide based on future EB2 movement. What are your predictions, when will my PD be current in EB2 or EB3?

[AceMan]

Hi, I have been following these both these threads, which has been quite helpful to gauge where I am in GC queue. Thanks everyone. Here is my case, my PD is EB2-India July 2009. Initially my case was filed under EB3 and then it was ported to EB2 later. I checked with Attorney whether I can use my EB3 I-140 and file I-485. He mentioned that I can file under EB2 or EB3, as retaining PD will not invalidate EB3 or EB2 filing, both are two seperate things. Now I am confused whether I should go ahead and file under EB3 or wait for some time and decide based on future EB2 movement. What are your predictions, when will my PD be current in EB2 or EB3?

My recommendation would be go with EB3. My reasoning as follows. EB2 I has got more than 3000 known numbers for Apr/May/June. EB3 I, even though FAD is Jan 2009, it can potentially 3I can get an explosive movement in Jan 2019 or Apr 2019 bulletin similar to April 2018 bulletin. You can utilize the filing date option for this month, get an EAD with 3 months, set and get the interview done by the Jan/Feb 2019 and be right in line to get your GC in April 2019 if the FAD moves as mentioned earlier. If you go with EB2, I don't see a chance before June 2019 and that too is a long shot.

[EB2/eb3]

My recommendation would be go with EB3. My reasoning as follows. EB2 I has got more than 3000 known numbers for Apr/May/June. EB3 I, even though FAD is Jan 2009, it can potentially 3I can get an explosive movement in Jan 2019 or Apr 2019 bulletin similar to April 2018 bulletin. You can utilize the filing date option for this month, get an EAD with 3 months, set and get the interview done by the Jan/Feb 2019 and be right in line to get your GC in April 2019 if the FAD moves as mentioned earlier. If you go with EB2, I don't see a chance before June 2019 and that too is a long shot.
Even with 25k pending in eb3(got this number from ur previous post) u are anticipating big movements in Jan/April 2019 for eb3?

[AceMan]

Even with 25k pending in eb3(got this number from ur previous post) u are anticipating big movements in Jan/April 2019 for eb3?

That 30K (approximation) would be for both EB2 and 3 I for years 2009 and 2010. Those were recession years.

[IamGSN]

@AceMan, Thanks for your suggestions. I am also thinking on the same line to file under EB3.

[HarepathekaIntezar]

@AceMan, Thanks for your suggestions. I am also thinking on the same line to file under EB3.

As long as your attorney says you won't lose your place in the EB2 Que, it is a win win situation for you to file in both que's and take advantage.

[jimmys]

My EB2 PD is Sep 2010 . If i ask my company to file for EB3 - I140, in case of any issues with EB3- I140 does my EB2-I140 still valid and can be used for I485?

From my understanding you can have only one active I-140 per PERM. FYI, people who port from EB-3 to EB-2 will have 2 I-140s linked with two different PERMs.

[siriyal75]

I checked with one of the top Attorney firms, these two are parallel applications, EB3 downgrade won't effect EB2.
Downgrades from EB2 to EB3 do not require a new Perm but would require a new I-140 petition, in new I-140 they request a duplicate copy of Labor from DOL, so there is no premium processing for this I-140, and also original Labor is tied to EB2 related I-140.
Only risk is cost of filing new I-140 and I-485 if concurrent filing also delay in processing new I-140 in regular processing.

[jimmys]

I checked with one of the top Attorney firms, these two are parallel applications, EB3 downgrade won't effect EB2.
Downgrades from EB2 to EB3 do not require a new Perm but would require a new I-140 petition, in new I-140 they request a duplicate copy of Labor from DOL, so there is no premium processing for this I-140, and also original Labor is tied to EB2 related I-140.
Only risk is cost of filing new I-140 and I-485 if concurrent filing also delay in processing new I-140 in regular processing.

Correct. But once you move to EB-3 category with I-485, is your EB-2 I-485 valid? I don't think so.

[gcvijay]

Correct. But once you move to EB-3 category with I-485, is your EB-2 I-485 valid? I don't think so.

It is valid. You can switch over to EB2-I if it becomes current than EB3 -I but attorney's(some) are saying that if that happens and even if a downgrade happens without a perm then its possible to get denied as they are saying that it is playing against the labor market and the job is actually not being tested for labor market and also they say when many applications like this come from an employer then the employer is considered as gaming the USCIS EB immigration system and this gets even complicated when going to interview where the interviewer doesn't understand anything in the entire document sent and question us why we have downgraded and deny application if I-140 approved application isn't available. These are the words from a Fragomen Attorney and also Murthy. I also heard that this doesn't affect ppl who had a previous EB3 application either through the same employer or different employer. Also, i heard some chinese folks who had the scenario of eb3 downgrade without a perm got some denials but i heard it from a chinese friend as I cannot read some chinese forums as they tweet\blog in chinese language.

[IamGSN]

It is valid. You can switch over to EB2-I if it becomes current than EB3 -I but attorney's(some) are saying that if that happens and even if a downgrade happens without a perm then its possible to get denied as they are saying that it is playing against the labor market and the job is actually not being tested for labor market and also they say when many applications like this come from an employer then the employer is considered as gaming the USCIS EB immigration system and this gets even complicated when going to interview where the interviewer doesn't understand anything in the entire document sent and question us why we have downgraded and deny application if I-140 approved application isn't available. These are the words from a Fragomen Attorney and also Murthy. I also heard that this doesn't affect ppl who had a previous EB3 application either through the same employer or different employer. Also, i heard some chinese folks who had the scenario of eb3 downgrade without a perm got some denials but i heard it from a chinese friend as I cannot read some chinese forums as they tweet\blog in chinese language.

It makes sense! I don't think any employer would agree to do that. That's the one of reason, I want to wait and watch the EB2-I movement for couple more months before I decide to file I-485 under EB3-I. Not sure, if EB3-India Final Action Date will surpass the EB2-India FAD.

[jimmys]

It makes sense! I don't think any employer would agree to do that. That's the one of reason, I want to wait and watch the EB2-I movement for couple more months before I decide to file I-485 under EB3-I. Not sure, if EB3-India Final Action Date will surpass the EB2-India FAD.

If you think about PERM ratio after 2009 between EB-2 and EB-3(Original filers) and the horizontal spillovers in EB-3,devoid of spillovers in EB-2, the EB-3 should stay ahead of EB-2 logically. The problem would start only if downgrades happen significantly. The Chinese EB-3 downgrades took 5 years to catch up with EB-2. May be India will happen in a few years time.

[delguy]

I have EB-2 petition filed by my employer for the position that I currently work in. If I ask them to consider Eb-3, would that have to be a different job offer? How otherwise the same job can satisfy the criteria for both Eb-2 and Eb-3? The job required Eb-2 (Bachelor's plus 5 yrs), how it will now require just Bachelor's?

[AceMan]

It is valid. You can switch over to EB2-I if it becomes current than EB3 -I but attorney's(some) are saying that if that happens and even if a downgrade happens without a perm then its possible to get denied as they are saying that it is playing against the labor market and the job is actually not being tested for labor market and also they say when many applications like this come from an employer then the employer is considered as gaming the USCIS EB immigration system and this gets even complicated when going to interview where the interviewer doesn't understand anything in the entire document sent and question us why we have downgraded and deny application if I-140 approved application isn't available. These are the words from a Fragomen Attorney and also Murthy. I also heard that this doesn't affect ppl who had a previous EB3 application either through the same employer or different employer. Also, i heard some chinese folks who had the scenario of eb3 downgrade without a perm got some denials but i heard it from a chinese friend as I cannot read some chinese forums as they tweet\blog in chinese language.

2 I-485's applications active at the same time is valid? Are you sure ?

One will be denied.
https://www.avvo.com/legal-answers/filing-multiple-i-485-applications-2337339.html

[ramks01]

Can we file our self to file downgrading EB2 to EB3 application. Is it good idea to do so..or need to go with very good attorney?

[feedmyback]

Hi Friends,

Here is my situation. Not that anything is changing for me any time soon. But I wanted to have some clarity since this is a thread that is talking about potential EB2 - EB3 downgrades.

I have my old I-140 approved with my previous employer for EB2 with a PD in 2010.
Now my new employer has applied my new PERM.

Question is... assuming in the next 2 -3 months my PD will become current in EB3, is it possible for me to apply both my I-140 and 485 concurrently and most importantly apply my I-140 in premium? The reason I ask is I am already in the process of applying through my new employer irrespective of the current date movements. So technically it is not a porting I-140. But did not know for sure. Any experts want to weigh in on my situation?

Thanks in advance

[LASHAB]

My company has agreed to downgrade to EB3 (from EB2). My PD is July 2009 and I never filed for AoS before, since I changed employers when the PD became current in 2012. I am not sure if I should do this given the complications. Our attorney is Fragomen and I havent talked to them yet. Knowledgeable people on this forum please advise.

[Rossman]

Here is our situation....
My wife has been employed with employer A.
Employer A filed for her green card in EB3 india category in june 2009 (They have an approved I 140 for EB3)
Employer A upgraded the case to EB2 india (They have an approved I 140 for EB2)
My wife applied for EAD card in 2015 under EB2, we got the EAD
After 180 days on EAD my wife changed to Employer B, since then she has been working for Employer B
and has renewed our EAD in 2017 and 2018 (The latest validity dates on EAD is until 2020)

Employer A asked to check with Lawyer if she can apply for 485 using EB3 dates (As EB3 dates are ahead or EB2)
Can she downgrade from EB3 to EB2, what are the implications.

[canada]

My recommendation would be go with EB3. My reasoning as follows. EB2 I has got more than 3000 known numbers for Apr/May/June. EB3 I, even though FAD is Jan 2009, it can potentially 3I can get an explosive movement in Jan 2019 or Apr 2019 bulletin similar to April 2018 bulletin. You can utilize the filing date option for this month, get an EAD with 3 months, set and get the interview done by the Jan/Feb 2019 and be right in line to get your GC in April 2019 if the FAD moves as mentioned earlier. If you go with EB2, I don't see a chance before June 2019 and that too is a long shot.

Aceman, in the other thread you quoted that by the of the September 2019, the EB2 India will cross October 2009. Does that prediction still hold the same ground or is it getting pushed back due to the current slow movement of EB2? Thanks

[AceMan]

Aceman, in the other thread you quoted that by the of the September 2019, the EB2 India will cross October 2009. Does that prediction still hold the same ground or is it getting pushed back due to the current slow movement of EB2? Thanks

There was a condition of close to 5000 SO for EB2 I to reach Oct 2009, by this FY end. I don't see that happening anymore. We will be lucky if it reaches July 2009.

[gcvijay]

There was a condition of close to 5000 SO for EB2 I to reach Oct 2009, by this FY end. I don't see that happening anymore. We will be lucky if it reaches July 2009.

What will be the movement of Eb2 and Eb3 INDIA for the rest of this FY? Where will we end this FY on both these categories?

[AceMan]

What will be the movement of Eb2 and Eb3 INDIA for the rest of this FY? Where will we end this FY on both these categories?

EB2 - I July 2009. EB3 - I 1st Jan 2010.

[excalibur123]

EB2 - I July 2009. EB3 - I 1st Jan 2010.

you are welcome Aceman

[EB32010]

EB2 - I July 2009. EB3 - I 1st Jan 2010.
I understand the doom and gloom because of the last bulletin but come on. We just finished 2nd quarter. And SO will be applied only in July or maybe earlier due to mandate interview. I expect India to get north of 3000 SO and if that happens EB3 will come close to April 2010.

[canada]

There was a condition of close to 5000 SO for EB2 I to reach Oct 2009, by this FY end. I don't see that happening anymore. We will be lucky if it reaches July 2009.


You are absolutely right. I went back to your post- number 4192 and you did mention that WITHOUT SPILLOVER- it might reach October 2009 in September 2020. I waited this long, I think I can push myself for another 12 -14 months wait.


Thanks Aceman ��

http://www.qesehmk.org/forums/showthread.php/1217-EB2-3-Predictions-(Rather-Calculations)?p=61100#post61100

[ramks01]

Can I file myself from Eb2 to EB3 or I need to ask my company to do that downgrade?

[infotalk]

The problem with attorney's are they always want to be politically correct and impress their clients. Would the same attorney advise Not to Port from EB3 to EB2 assuming EB2 is moving faster than EB3?

Either way new 485 filers will have interview if you file in EB2 or EB3.

I would recommend to go for downgrading to EB3 if that benefits your personal life and career.

If I have EAD card with PD May 2009 date, should I downgrade to EB3 ? I just want to hear from the green card interview perspective. Will i have to go through an interview if I downgrade to EB3 ? If I stay in EB2 I wont ? I am really confused on the green card interview process and who needs to go through it. If you can guide, that would be great.

[skpanda]

Dear Friends,
I have a situation and idea. I will reach out to my company attorney but wanted to get thoughts from you guys!

1. My job was in City X in Company A.
2. PERM/GC 1 process for EB2 was done for City X job. PD is Dec 2010 and never filed I485.
3. Company A closed City X office and asked me to start working from City Y. It is 250 miles away. Therefore the PERM/GC 1 for EB2 is no longer valid since the office is closed.
4. Company A started new PERM/GC 2 for EB2 for City Y.
5. Now Company A and Company B have merged resulting in a new company and retains the name of Company B.
6. Company B has office location in City X.

Question:
Is the PERM/GC 1 application for City X valid. If yes, can i use this to downgrade to EB3, while PERM/GC 2 application for City Y continues to be EB2.
(Provided my company agrees to extend the offer for the job for City X).

Thanks!

[LASHAB]

Does anyone have recent experince of facing 485 interview when downgraded in the same company.