Bills, Rules & Politics

[abcx13]

So this just happened: https://www.cato.org/blog/sen-pauls-believe-act-raises-skilled-migration-without-tradeoffs

Its a dream bill. Have no idea what the chances of it becoming law ever is (I would assume very very low) - but still encouraging to see this coming from Rand Paul after his recent hold on the Senate bill removing country caps.

Not a chance in hell is my guess.

[qesehmk]

All of you know my feelings towards advocacy.

However now that the bill has passed the congress, those who worked hard deserve congratulations and thank you at the very least. Even getting to this stage is a really good piece of work.

[smuggymba]

If your state senator is not cosponsored S.386 yet, please consider calling or emailing.

https://www.senate.gov/senators/How_to_correspond_senators.htm

GC Number Increase = Dead at birth. Not a single Republican will vote for it. Infact, many Dems will stay away as well.

What the heck, Reps/Dems won't even support "Recapture", forget about increase. Rand Paul has other motives.

[manubhai]

Logging back in after years!! Though I do come to read often!!

Guys and girls... I think its that time of the decade again when we get schooled in politics afresh!!
1. There's no way this bill has ANY chance of passing. If you are one of those who are "asking"... you are pretty new at this business.
2. It will hog a lot of time and attention. Esp. of Indians who are seeing this crap for the first time around and will be amazed with the awesomeness called Rand Paul!!
3. Rand Paul will now officially be able to say: "See... I told you I am all for immigration!".
4. I'll be logging back in again in a decade.

Till then... take care of your health, relationships, and career.
Cheers!!!

[idliman]

So this just happened: https://www.cato.org/blog/sen-pauls-believe-act-raises-skilled-migration-without-tradeoffs

Its a dream bill. Have no idea what the chances of it becoming law ever is (I would assume very very low) - but still encouraging to see this coming from Rand Paul after his recent hold on the Senate bill removing country caps.
Are you kidding me? This bill is like Blackforest Cake, Gulfi ice Cream, Laddu, Jelebi, Kaju Katli and Kalakand in one package. We are just asking for a simple Dhaal Chawal and we have been denied so far saying ROW will not have anything to eat and starve to death. This is just posturing from Rand Paul to take some of the heat away.

[gs1968]

Are you kidding me? This bill is like Blackforest Cake, Gulfi ice Cream, Laddu, Jelebi, Kaju Katli and Kalakand in one package. We are just asking for a simple Dhaal Chawal and we have been denied so far saying ROW will not have anything to eat and starve to death. This is just posturing from Rand Paul to take some of the heat away.

What are you doing at Sukhadia's so early on a Friday morning?!

[jimmys]

So this just happened: https://www.cato.org/blog/sen-pauls-believe-act-raises-skilled-migration-without-tradeoffs

Its a dream bill. Have no idea what the chances of it becoming law ever is (I would assume very very low) - but still encouraging to see this coming from Rand Paul after his recent hold on the Senate bill removing country caps.

This bill has increase in visa numbers and removing dependents from visa count. What it means is, it's a non-starter. Remember, the H.R.1044 passed in House overwhelmingly because it didn't add any to the existing visa numbers. Any bill that seeks for addition to the existing visa numbers is not going anywhere.

Rand Paul has his own bill means, he's unlikely to lift the hold on S.386.

As far as I read, even some democrats in Senate are opposed to S.386 as they want the CIR (Comprehensive Immigration Reform) not the piece meal approach to immigration.

[Turbulent_Dragonfly]

After a long time I checked on legislative action on the immigration front this week and at an opportune time I guess. Saw the House bill clear while Rand Paul blocked the Senate bill but looks like he dropped his own plan into the mix.

Maybe we can have an interesting last few weeks of summer: https://www.cato.org/blog/sen-pauls-believe-act-raises-skilled-migration-without-tradeoffs

Not sure there is any appetite for any immigration reform though unless it involves slashing any and all kinds.

[srimurthy]

Eb5 rule update... final rule
https://www.uscis.gov/news/news-releases/new-rulemaking-brings-significant-changes-eb-5-program

increasing the amount of investment, may be effective from Nov'19 possibility increasing the allocation for EB1

[rocketfast]

Eb5 rule update... final rule
https://www.uscis.gov/news/news-releases/new-rulemaking-brings-significant-changes-eb-5-program

increasing the amount of investment, may be effective from Nov'19 possibility increasing the allocation for EB1

There is a huge EB5 backlog. 15+ years for China. 8+ years for India. And 6+ years for Vietnam. So atleast a couple of years will be spent clearing the backlog.

[qesehmk]

A lot of desi folks supported Trump during 2016 elections. This is what he gives you back ...
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/politics-news/trump-administration-make-it-harder-low-income-immigrants-stay-n1041316

Like I always say - once an anti-immigrant always an anti-immigrant. Legal illegal difference does not matter.

[mesimba]

A lot of desi folks supported Trump during 2016 elections. This is what he gives you back ...
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/politics-news/trump-administration-make-it-harder-low-income-immigrants-stay-n1041316

Like I always say - once an anti-immigrant always an anti-immigrant. Legal illegal difference does not matter.

Thanks Q ! This is not good news for immigration overall, however could this have a positive impact on those backlogged legal immigrants who are not on public charge ?
I am in thinking more selfishly :) in terms of EB2I/EB3I and if unused visas due to above will help move these categories forward.

[bloddy1]

A lot of desi folks supported Trump during 2016 elections. This is what he gives you back ...
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/politics-news/trump-administration-make-it-harder-low-income-immigrants-stay-n1041316

Like I always say - once an anti-immigrant always an anti-immigrant. Legal illegal difference does not matter.

If anything, it may be good news since we are competing with some of these lower income brackets for the numbers. But at this point nothing seems to help and everything seems to hurt as Q said, legal or illegal doesn't matter, hurts everyone.

The problem is leverage, we have some large groups, especially us folks from India, who have depended on employers goodwill to make legal immigration but hasn't worked out really well giving us minimal political leverage. The folks that have already made the cut, quite frankly would be on other side of political action as its not in their interest.

[qesehmk]

Thanks Q ! This is not good news for immigration overall, however could this have a positive impact on those backlogged legal immigrants who are not on public charge ?
I am in thinking more selfishly :) in terms of EB2I/EB3I and if unused visas due to above will help move these categories forward.

I dont see EB-India having folks who rely on assistance. This is probably more for ROW/Mex/Phl and that too more so in FB category.

But the point is - legal - illegal does not matter. The anti-immigration sentiment is strong and thriving. As per bloody1's argument about NRIs on the other side, I'd say that they are apathetic to your plight not necessarily antipathetic.

[NJMavarick]

A lot of desi folks supported Trump during 2016 elections. This is what he gives you back ...
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/politics-news/trump-administration-make-it-harder-low-income-immigrants-stay-n1041316

Like I always say - once an anti-immigrant always an anti-immigrant. Legal illegal difference does not matter.

True! However, once in effect this will invite litigation

[Blue_fairy]

Ha ha if this goes through, imagine what they could do next. This one has no impact on you doesn't mean that the next one also wouldn't. It's all about setting a precedent.

[NeelVohra]

True! However, once in effect this will invite litigation

All the anti "anybody" stuff reminds me of the following quote. Saw it long ago at the Holocaust Memorial at DC.
Not comparing any administration to anything, no politics, just sharing. Please delete, if found inappropriate.



First they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a socialist.

Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a trade unionist.

Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Jew.

Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.


Link: Martin Niemöller quote (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_they_came_...)

[EB22010Dec]

Look at this artcile - https://www.businessinsider.com/the-new-trump-green-card-rule-backdoor-to-immigration-reform-2019-8

Last line says that around 16k GCs are rejected. What happens to those numbers ? Would they flow into Employment based ?

@speculator and other gurus.

[AceMan]

A lot of desi folks supported Trump during 2016 elections. This is what he gives you back ...
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/politics-news/trump-administration-make-it-harder-low-income-immigrants-stay-n1041316

Like I always say - once an anti-immigrant always an anti-immigrant. Legal illegal difference does not matter.

Q, The "friendly" admin made things tougher for H1B from 2009-2013 due to recession. They diluted their own rules regarding client letter for H1 filing in 2012 to open the H1B flood gates again. They provided 3 year OPT, playing cahoots to the industry, while doing nothing to reduce the wait time for immigrants.
Not ignoring the fact, we got a completely watered down H4-EAD, while completely fooling applicants on 140-EAD. It was done back in 2007 and there was a precedence. Nothing for the kids who were born outside US, and lived almost all their life here.

Oh, there was another minor thing back in 2009-2010 if you recall, if the companies had laid off citizens, they cannot start the GC process for H1's for 6 months.

Even the filing date push back in September 2015 after it was supposed to give some respite for people waiting from May 2010 to June 2011 in Eb2 showed that the 'friendly' admin did not care much.

Citizen Indians moved to Trump, because of how Obama admin treated Modi with visa denial during his time. They started identifying themselves with republican values. They don't care about H1B's concerns.

[NJMavarick]

https://www.nj.com/politics/2019/08/trumps-new-immigrant-rule-limiting-green-cards-could-hit-700k-in-nj.html

700K people just in NJ alone...this rule is going to have a big impact

[prabakarb]

Q, I respect you for starting this forum and the work you have done, but you are wrong on this one. Most people didn't even read the rule. Here is the official USCIS link for the rule.

https://www.uscis.gov/news/news-releases/uscis-announces-final-rule-enforcing-long-standing-public-charge-inadmissibility-law

I do not see anything wrong with this rule. Also there is a key point all liberal and fake news media is not telling. This rule will apply to only new applications received on or after October 15th. Trump is not anti immigrant nor he is racist. Democrats do not like immigrants, but they want votes that is why they support illegal immigration. I hope you do more research and find the truth.

[iatiam]

Q, The "friendly" admin made things tougher for H1B from 2009-2013 due to recession. They diluted their own rules regarding client letter for H1 filing in 2012 to open the H1B flood gates again. They provided 3 year OPT, playing cahoots to the industry, while doing nothing to reduce the wait time for immigrants.
Not ignoring the fact, we got a completely watered down H4-EAD, while completely fooling applicants on 140-EAD. It was done back in 2007 and there was a precedence. Nothing for the kids who were born outside US, and lived almost all their life here.

Oh, there was another minor thing back in 2009-2010 if you recall, if the companies had laid off citizens, they cannot start the GC process for H1's for 6 months.

Even the filing date push back in September 2015 after it was supposed to give some respite for people waiting from May 2010 to June 2011 in Eb2 showed that the 'friendly' admin did not care much.

Citizen Indians moved to Trump, because of how Obama admin treated Modi with visa denial during his time. They started identifying themselves with republican values. They don't care about H1B's concerns.

Agree completely. Add to the list how Obama introduced DACA and flooded the southern border with illegals in 2012. EB4 visa used to spillover to EB1/2/3 until these were taken away by special juvenile immigrants. I would have become a citizen if not for DACA.

And I honestly do not understand how this is going to hurt legal immigrants? No EB based immigrant takes welfare from the government. Heck, we are not even eligible for social security benefits (something every one is forced to pay into) if we have to go back to India.

If any thing I want to see how much SO is going to come from FB.

Iatiam

[EB22010Dec]

Agree completely. Add to the list how Obama introduced DACA and flooded the southern border with illegals in 2012. EB4 visa used to spillover to EB1/2/3 until these were taken away by special juvenile immigrants. I would have become a citizen if not for DACA.

And I honestly do not understand how this is going to hurt legal immigrants? No EB based immigrant takes welfare from the government. Heck, we are not even eligible for social security benefits (something every one is forced to pay into) if we have to go back to India.

If any thing I want to see how much SO is going to come from FB.

Iatiam

Hence my quesiton -

Look at this artcile - https://www.businessinsider.com/the-...-reform-2019-8

Last line says that around 16k GCs are rejected. What happens to those numbers ? Would they flow into Employment based ?

@speculator and other gurus.

[dec2010]

Q, The "friendly" admin made things tougher for H1B from 2009-2013 due to recession. They diluted their own rules regarding client letter for H1 filing in 2012 to open the H1B flood gates again. They provided 3 year OPT, playing cahoots to the industry, while doing nothing to reduce the wait time for immigrants.
Not ignoring the fact, we got a completely watered down H4-EAD, while completely fooling applicants on 140-EAD. It was done back in 2007 and there was a precedence. Nothing for the kids who were born outside US, and lived almost all their life here.

Oh, there was another minor thing back in 2009-2010 if you recall, if the companies had laid off citizens, they cannot start the GC process for H1's for 6 months.

Even the filing date push back in September 2015 after it was supposed to give some respite for people waiting from May 2010 to June 2011 in Eb2 showed that the 'friendly' admin did not care much.

Citizen Indians moved to Trump, because of how Obama admin treated Modi with visa denial during his time. They started identifying themselves with republican values. They don't care about H1B's concerns.

When it comes to EB immigration, there is no friend on either side of the aisle. Ds care about votes and Rs care about lowering wages.

IMHO citizen indian's are typically R voters. they support lowering taxes far more than any other R policy or leader of the cycle.

September 2015 filing rule in fact made things from bad to worse.

[dec2010]

[/QUOTE]
First they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a socialist.

Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a trade unionist.

Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Jew.

Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.
Link: Martin Niemöller quote/QUOTE]

so true.. this is how it hurts all immigrants.. there is no stopping wrt anti sentiment.

[vbollu]

not only that, the first 4 years bama had an absolute majority in both house and senate, didn't touch a single immigration bill, bought Obama care and spent whole 4 years. at least bama could have tried I-140 with out adding any conditions, we could have been in better position. every one believed that republicans did good thing to the legal immigration just because bush made current once in 2007 and expected republican president, this president is showing his middle finger to all the immigrants from day 1 he got elected.

[qesehmk]

not only that, the first 4 years bama had an absolute majority in both house and senate, didn't touch a single immigration bill, bought Obama care and spent whole 4 years. at least bama could have tried I-140 with out adding any conditions, we could have been in better position. every one believed that republicans did good thing to the legal immigration just because bush made current once in 2007 and expected republican president, this president is showing his middle finger to all the immigrants from day 1 he got elected.

Bush was quite pro-immigration. It's a shame his efforts went waste. Obama to his credit did give significant relief to immigrant via executive actions such as EAD for H4, and DACA. This current administration is entirely anti-immigrant and racist.

[iatiam]

Bush was quite pro-immigration. It's a shame his efforts went waste. Obama to his credit did give significant relief to immigrant via executive actions such as EAD for H4, and DACA. This current administration is entirely anti-immigrant and racist.

With due respect, the reason why EB4 stopped giving SO is because of the fact rule

[qesehmk]

Q, The "friendly" admin made things tougher for H1B from 2009-2013 due to recession. They diluted their own rules regarding client letter for H1 filing in 2012 to open the H1B flood gates again. They provided 3 year OPT, playing cahoots to the industry, while doing nothing to reduce the wait time for immigrants.
Not ignoring the fact, we got a completely watered down H4-EAD, while completely fooling applicants on 140-EAD. It was done back in 2007 and there was a precedence. Nothing for the kids who were born outside US, and lived almost all their life here.

Oh, there was another minor thing back in 2009-2010 if you recall, if the companies had laid off citizens, they cannot start the GC process for H1's for 6 months.

Even the filing date push back in September 2015 after it was supposed to give some respite for people waiting from May 2010 to June 2011 in Eb2 showed that the 'friendly' admin did not care much.

Citizen Indians moved to Trump, because of how Obama admin treated Modi with visa denial during his time. They started identifying themselves with republican values. They don't care about H1B's concerns.
Ace - everything you mention about Obama admin is what you would expect a normal admin to do - which is - implement immigration policy as an extension of economic policy. That's what immigration is for America - an economic imperative. They did not do anything out of malice unlike current admin.
As per why citizens voted for Trump - that's getting into politics and not useful for our discussion - so I will refrain from commenting. Not to mean you can't discuss it.


Q, I respect you for starting this forum and the work you have done, but you are wrong on this one. Most people didn't even read the rule. Here is the official USCIS link for the rule.

https://www.uscis.gov/news/news-releases/uscis-announces-final-rule-enforcing-long-standing-public-charge-inadmissibility-law

I do not see anything wrong with this rule. Also there is a key point all liberal and fake news media is not telling. This rule will apply to only new applications received on or after October 15th. Trump is not anti immigrant nor he is racist. Democrats do not like immigrants, but they want votes that is why they support illegal immigration. I hope you do more research and find the truth.
Prabhakar - welcome to forum. I have no emotional investment on my opinions. I am just saying things as I see them. Of course others can see it differently ... not a problem. I do want to say that while democrats and republican politicians take stance to ensure they stay in power - the American people - even today - are quite immigrant friendly. Despite of everything - I think US is the best place to immigrate in the world both from economic and social perspective.

[qesehmk]

Respectfully, I think you and others are confusing your own well being with broader pro or anti immigrant sentiment. I frankly do not remember what EB4 rule you mention - but lets say Bush relaxed EB4 (religious workers) category to allow more priest in ... that is not anti other categories. Yes it may have hurt spillover .... but that does not make it anti other categories.


With due respect, the reason why EB4 stopped giving SO is because of the fact rule

[numgc1234]

I am not sure how immigrating to US is the best choice, since I have been here from 2007 and still on H1B with no light at the end of the tunnel. I dont want to discuss what if I have stayed back, but with the current scenario I regret coming here.. My one of the biggest regret with earlier admin is when they can go all way to give EAD to undocumented and still could not help the folks like us is so unfair.
It is difficult to walk on thread for 12 years wondering how the economy behaves , will I have the job or can I invest with out any hope. So please don't preach the future generation stating that this is the best country to immigrate ...

[qesehmk]

I am not sure how immigrating to US is the best choice, Agree ... it is not the best choice for everybody. But for those who want to immigrate - I do not know another soul who left US and settled in UK/Canada/Austria/Aussie or anywhere else. The only people I know who left US went back to their own homecountries. I know Jim Rogers went to Hong Kong. But then I don't know him personally :)

[numgc1234]

considering the time period, immigrants might have invested emotionally ...

[qesehmk]

considering the time period, immigrants might have invested emotionally ...

True. Every which way ....

But here is a perspective by John Lennon who famously said, "Life is what happens to you while you're busy making other plans".

My last post for the day .... Peace and Cheers!

[iatiam]

Respectfully, I think you and others are confusing your own well being with broader pro or anti immigrant sentiment. I frankly do not remember what EB4 rule you mention - but lets say Bush relaxed EB4 (religious workers) category to allow more priest in ... that is not anti other categories. Yes it may have hurt spillover .... but that does not make it anti other categories.

You are comparing a hypothetical situation with some thing that really happened. The DACA issuance by Obama caused a deluge of illegal immigrants in the southern border and a lot of them qualified for special immigrant juvenile status which takes the visa numbers from EB4 category. You can read about it here,
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special_Immigrant_Juvenile_Status

[qesehmk]

You are comparing a hypothetical situation with some thing that really happened. The DACA issuance by Obama caused a deluge of illegal immigrants in the southern border and a lot of them qualified for special immigrant juvenile status which takes the visa numbers from EB4 category. You can read about it here,
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special_Immigrant_Juvenile_Status
Thanks for the info. What happened under SIJu is called "JUSTICE". Those kids were in more unfortunate situation than somebody like you. Were you smuggled into the United States or did your parents die or got deported to India while you were a juvenile over here?

Nothing wrong in what was done there. It was not done with the goal to reduce overall legal immigration. The current administration's goal is to reduce overall legal immigration.

[iatiam]

Thanks for the info. What happened under SIJu is called "JUSTICE". Those kids were in more unfortunate situation than somebody like you. Were you smuggled into the United States or did your parents die or got deported to India while you were a juvenile over here?

Nothing wrong in what was done there. It was not done with the goal to reduce overall legal immigration. The current administration's goal is to reduce overall legal immigration.

This is my last post on this.

SIJ visas came from EB category which is the real injustice. It's easy to do virtue signalling if you have already have GC or citizenship and have absolutely no skin in the game.

[qesehmk]

This is my last post on this.

SIJ visas came from EB category which is the real injustice. It's easy to do virtue signalling if you have already have GC or citizenship and have absolutely no skin in the game.

Those laws were on the books since 1990. So your objection is baseless. So lets forget virtue. What was done was justice under existing legal framework. Having skin in the game doesn't ensure that the person will not care only about his/her skin. I have seen this repeatedly. People forget common good and complain about other immigrants FB vs EB, EB1 vs EB2 vs EB3, or India vs ROW etc.

[NJMavarick]

Glad to hear everyone's comments and frustrations. Sometimes this forum feels like only the "toppers" are posting and the "back benchers" are not encouraged OR afraid because of the higher standards here.

Looking at the approval trend in trackitt, EB3I 2009 applicants barely got any approval (less than 10% of total). So almost the entire 2009 EB3I that was current is still waiting for visas. I also agree with your view that more people in India (typically EB3I) are getting eligible to do CP. One of my friends in India decided not to pursue GC even though his company supported him to do it.

Usually there is some election year magic. I wish for that next year. Otherwise it is going to be the story of no spillover and another 2-3 years to clear 2009. The immigration system is so complex that no one can predict the cascading effects. I for one supported Obama admin's streamlining of GCs process till it systematically reduced the Spillover to India. It took about 2 or 3 years for that to play out. Maybe the "Inadmissability on Public Charge" rule might turnout to be positive. So we have to wait and see how the new Public Charge rule plays out. It is too early to say anything about its impacts now.

13 states are already suing for this rule! It may go to Supreme Court eventually, in which case the effect of this will be felt much later.

Link: https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/politics/washington-attorney-general-bob-ferguson-helps-lead-lawsuit-against-new-trump-administration-over-rule-penalizing-immigrants-who-use-public-benefits/

[iatiam]

13 states are already suing for this rule! It may go to Supreme Court eventually, in which case the effect of this will be felt much later.

Link: https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/politics/washington-attorney-general-bob-ferguson-helps-lead-lawsuit-against-new-trump-administration-over-rule-penalizing-immigrants-who-use-public-benefits/

That's Trump's MO. He knows these will be challenged in states and will find a way to the Supreme Court where a conservative bench will uphold it. Hopefully his DACA cancellation will also be upheld by the court and stem the flow of illegals. If Obama can bring an executive order, I don't understand why his predecessor can't cancel it.

Iatiam

[gcy2k07]

Ace - everything you mention about Obama admin is what you would expect a normal admin to do - which is - implement immigration policy as an extension of economic policy. That's what immigration is for America - an economic imperative. They did not do anything out of malice unlike current admin.
As per why citizens voted for Trump - that's getting into politics and not useful for our discussion - so I will refrain from commenting. Not to mean you can't discuss it.


Prabhakar - welcome to forum. I have no emotional investment on my opinions. I am just saying things as I see them. Of course others can see it differently ... not a problem. I do want to say that while democrats and republican politicians take stance to ensure they stay in power - the American people - even today - are quite immigrant friendly. Despite of everything - I think US is the best place to immigrate in the world both from economic and social perspective.

Q- I just returned from a vacation in Europe where I had lived for a few years. Couldn't agree more with you views above!

[qesehmk]

Q- I just returned from a vacation in Europe where I had lived for a few years. Couldn't agree more with you views above!
:) People generally are the same world over. When they come to US they become part of American experience. That experience is what makes America unique in the world.

[abcx13]

Economic Times - How the American dream is souring for many Indian IT workers (https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/nri/visa-and-immigration/how-the-american-dream-is-souring-for-many-indian-it-workers/articleshow/70926993.cms)

[rock581]

https://www.facebook.com/ImmigrationVoice/posts/2627876040611937

[gs1968]

https://www.facebook.com/ImmigrationVoice/posts/2627876040611937

Thank you for posting this great news. Hopefully this is the week this saga that started in 2008 ends! However the DOS released the October Visa bulletin overnight which I feel could have waited till they know how these bills play out. They will have to make adjustments later in the year once this bill becomes law.

[EB22010Dec]

Thank you for posting this great news. Hopefully this is the week this saga that started in 2008 ends! However the DOS released the October Visa bulletin overnight which I feel could have waited till they know how these bills play out. They will have to make adjustments later in the year once this bill becomes law.

What happens next ? If it passes the senate.

[iatiam]

What happens next ? If it passes the senate.

It has to go back to House because of the two amendments added to Senate version. I would imagine this part would be easy since the "majority of majority" in House is already co-sponsoring the bill. And then it goes to the president's desk and if he signs, it becomes the law. I think if two-third of the Senate votes in support, president cannot veto the bill.

Again, medium to long shot chances of passage but then again, this is the best position the bill has been in last ten years or so. Also, with the John Oliver show, the issue started getting more attention.

Iatiam

[gs1968]

It has to go back to House because of the two amendments added to Senate version. I would imagine this part would be easy since the "majority of majority" in House is already co-sponsoring the bill. And then it goes to the president's desk and if he signs, it becomes the law. I think if two-third of the Senate votes in support, president cannot veto the bill.

Again, medium to long shot chances of passage but then again, this is the best position the bill has been in last ten years or so. Also, with the John Oliver show, the issue started getting more attention.

Iatiam

I think the odds are better than that. These things have been under negotiation I would assume through most of the summer and the John Oliver show though informative probably did not influence this much. It does reduce the available pool by 5000 from what I presume will be EB-3. DOS probably has a backup visa bulletin calculated in case this becomes law by the end of the month and revoke the existing bulletin with an updated one reflecting the law's guidelines before October 1

[mcmilers]

https://www.am22tech.com/hr1044-s386-voting-on-senate-floor/

this article says, it immediately comes into effect if and when the president signs the bill into law. And dates are estimated to move to Sep 2014 for EB-1,2 and 3. Can anyone corroborate that?

[iatiam]

I think the odds are better than that. These things have been under negotiation I would assume through most of the summer and the John Oliver show though informative probably did not influence this much. It does reduce the available pool by 5000 from what I presume will be EB-3. DOS probably has a backup visa bulletin calculated in case this becomes law by the end of the month and revoke the existing bulletin with an updated one reflecting the law's guidelines before October 1

Certainly! Hope springs eternal.

Having worked on this bill for several years now, mostly meeting with congressmen and congresswomen, I am very happy to see the bill come this far. Let's keep our fingers crossed.

Iatiam

[qesehmk]

Aman Kapoor and IV have been quite contrite to steal our thesis about country caps. They were trying to increase number of EADs and those kind of things when this blog said unequivocally that country caps is the real culprit behind Indians' pain.

Good luck with the Bill anyway .... If passed ... this will do wonders for EB-India China and all backlogged countries.

As always I am going to make a prediction that this Bill will not pass because this will open floodgates for Brown people ... which is the last thing Stephen miller wants.

[vbollu]

https://www.am22tech.com/hr1044-s386-voting-on-senate-floor/

this article says, it immediately comes into effect if and when the president signs the bill into law. And dates are estimated to move to Sep 2014 for EB-1,2 and 3. Can anyone corroborate that?

this information is wrong, even though if the bill passes it won't reach 01/01/2014 right away. For Indians we would get maximum of 20-25k visas per year, by reaching 2014 it takes minimum of 3-4 years as per my assumption.

[jackbrown_890]

Aman Kapoor and IV have been quite contrite to steal our thesis about country caps. They were trying to increase number of EADs and those kind of things when this blog said unequivocally that country caps is the real culprit behind Indians' pain.

Good luck with the Bill anyway .... If passed ... this will do wonders for EB-India China and all backlogged countries.

As always I am going to make a prediction that this Bill will not pass because this will open floodgates for Brown people ... which is the last thing Stephen miller wants.
Q,
I hope your prediction is wrong this time. This doesn't happen usually that people want your prediction to be wrong.
I would like to think it will pass (wishful thinking) specially with Grassley and now Rand Paul on board.
Also, let's see what media does today before the vote since the news it out now. Also, how it reacts in next few weeks before Trump signs it. I don't know if trump can still Veto it even if it has 67 votes or more. I am assuming he can, and senate/house will have to vote again with overrule his veto to who goes against Trump.

I am assuming if it passes in the senate, it will have to go to conference and don't know how long that will take. But I was hoping it would happen quickly and Trump would sign it on 21st so he can brag about it at "Howdy Modi".

[idliman]

Q,
I don't know if trump can still Veto it even if it has 67 votes or more. I am assuming he can, and senate/house will have to vote again with overrule his veto to who goes against Trump.

Sorry could not keep quiet on this one.
DT will not veto and does not veto legislation. The five veto's that he had done so far in his presidency relate to Saudi Arabia, UAE, Saudi Arabia, Yemen and National Emergency declaration. Press reports say that he signs anything that is presented to him and brags about it.
Senate works more by consensus. If it has come so far, I would think there is a good chance. However, media news cycles have great power and things can change quickly in politics.

[qesehmk]

Jack - I hope yours and everybody else' wish comes true. My heart too wants this to pass ... my head tells me otherwise.

For what it's worth - lets have a party in each major metro if this gets through :)


Q,
I hope your prediction is wrong this time. This doesn't happen usually that people want your prediction to be wrong.
I would like to think it will pass (wishful thinking) specially with Grassley and now Rand Paul on board.
Also, let's see what media does today before the vote since the news it out now. Also, how it reacts in next few weeks before Trump signs it. I don't know if trump can still Veto it even if it has 67 votes or more. I am assuming he can, and senate/house will have to vote again with overrule his veto to who goes against Trump.

I am assuming if it passes in the senate, it will have to go to conference and don't know how long that will take. But I was hoping it would happen quickly and Trump would sign it on 21st so he can brag about it at "Howdy Modi".

[idliman]

Latest amendments to HR1044 to please Senators Grassley and Paul can be read in the following link:
https://www.congress.gov/116/crec/2019/09/17/CREC-2019-09-17-pt1-PgS5542-5.pdf
Let's keep moving.

Rollin', rollin', rollin'
Rollin', rollin', rollin'

Keep movin', movin', movin'
Though they're disapprovin'
Keep them dogies* movin'
Rawhide!

[NJMaverick]

Got a call from one my close friends (PD 2009 who already became a citizen last month) who was really excited for me that the immigration bill is going to pass tomorrow? Is this HR1044 in Senate now? I though it got blocked in Senate so did not pay too much attention. Are there any implications to EB2/EB3 predictions because of this?

The bill is coming up again for Unanimous Consent. We are doing a lot of calling to Senators. An amendment was made to get Rand Paul on board. I just hope no other Senator objects to it. This is the closest we have ever been! If it passes and its a BIG IF...it should move the dates considerably. I have been disappointed in the past so not keeping my hopes high.

[jackbrown_890]

Jack -
- lets have a party in each major metro if this gets through :)

i am sure there will be and you are invited to all of them..

[jackbrown_890]

Latest amendments to HR1044 to please Senators Grassley and Paul can be read in the following link:
https://www.congress.gov/116/crec/2019/09/17/CREC-2019-09-17-pt1-PgS5542-5.pdf
Let's keep moving.

Rollin', rollin', rollin'
Rollin', rollin', rollin'

Keep movin', movin', movin'
Though they're disapprovin'
Keep them dogies* movin'
Rawhide!

Has any one looked at the Glassley amendment. everyone is focused on Cap removal... Have not read much about the details of the amendment. Hopefully it is a good amendment and will not affect future immigrants negatively.

[isititrue1044]

Has any one looked at the Glassley amendment. everyone is focused on Cap removal... Have not read much about the details of the amendment. Hopefully it is a good amendment and will not affect future immigrants negatively.

my h1b expires next year is this still valid with new amendments

"https://www.uscis.gov/sites/default/files/USCIS/Laws/Memoranda/Static_Files_Memoranda/Archives%201998-2008/2008/ac21_30may08.pdf"
See 2. AC21 §104(c) Guidance for Aliens Subject to Per Country Visa Limitations: "but for the application of per country limitations applicable" - S386 removes per country limitation, hence this rule is not working, hence H1B will have to be renewed every year.

https://twitter.com/AmyMaldonadoLaw/status/1154763140749561856

[Gunther25]

Has anyone seen this update? Finally HR1044 may pass... But this may be effective next fiscal year though

https://www.facebook.com/243363639063201/posts/2627876040611937

[smuggymba]

Aman Kapoor and IV have been quite contrite to steal our thesis about country caps. They were trying to increase number of EADs and those kind of things when this blog said unequivocally that country caps is the real culprit behind Indians' pain.

Good luck with the Bill anyway .... If passed ... this will do wonders for EB-India China and all backlogged countries.

As always I am going to make a prediction that this Bill will not pass because this will open floodgates for Brown people ... which is the last thing Stephen miller wants.

We love you Q and admire you and appreciate you a lot. But I hope you're 100% wrong and I know in your heart you want to be wrong too

[isititrue1044]

Has any one looked at the Glassley amendment. everyone is focused on Cap removal... Have not read much about the details of the amendment. Hopefully it is a good amendment and will not affect future immigrants negatively.

my h1b expires next year is this still valid with new amendments

"https://www.uscis.gov/sites/default/files/USCIS/Laws/Memoranda/Static_Files_Memoranda/Archives%201998-2008/2008/ac21_30may08.pdf"
See 2. AC21 §104(c) Guidance for Aliens Subject to Per Country Visa Limitations: "but for the application of per country limitations applicable" - S386 removes per country limitation, hence this rule is not working, hence H1B will have to be renewed every year.

https://twitter.com/AmyMaldonadoLaw/status/1154763140749561856

[smuggymba]

Q and Spec - Hypothetically assuming this passes and get signed, what will the dates move to? Have you done any ballpark/cursory analysis on this?

[isititrue1044]

Q and Spec - Hypothetically assuming this passes and get signed, what will the dates move to? Have you done any ballpark/cursory analysis on this?

probably 2014

[qesehmk]

We love you Q and admire you and appreciate you a lot. But I hope you're 100% wrong and I know in your heart you want to be wrong too

I absolutely want me to be wrong. Every backlogged person must support this bill and do anything s/he can do to help this succeed.

[FarAwayfromGC]

Has any one looked at the Glassley amendment. everyone is focused on Cap removal... Have not read much about the details of the amendment. Hopefully it is a good amendment and will not affect future immigrants negatively.

Grassley amendment requires H1B employers to post the H1B job for 30 days prior to hiring a H1B worker in a web site DOL is going to design and operate ; following is the text :

"except in the case of an employer filing a petition on behalf of an H–1B non-immigrant who has already been counted against the numerical limitations and is not eligible for a full 6-year period, as described in section 214(g)(7), or on behalf of an H–1B non immigrant authorized to accept employment under section 214(n), has posted on the internet website described in paragraph (6), for at least 30 calendar days, a description of each position for which a non immigrant is sought, that includes— ‘‘(I) the occupational classification, and if different the employer’s job title for the position, in which the non immigrant(s) will be employed; ‘‘(II) the education, training, or experience qualifications for the position; ‘‘(III) the salary or wage range and employee benefits offered; ‘‘(IV) the location(s) at which the non-immigrant(s) will be employed; and ‘‘(V) the process for applying for a position;"

It's too early to talk about this but, I believe this will make H1B filing and extensions difficult because of the 30 day posting requirement before a LCA is certified.

[NJMavarick]

Has anyone seen this update? Finally HR1044 may pass... But this may be effective next fiscal year though

https://www.facebook.com/243363639063201/posts/2627876040611937

Its not over till its over..lets wait and watch! We will know tomorrow. We have failed in the past so once bitten twice shy

[bookworm]

I absolutely want me to be wrong. Every backlogged person must support this bill and do anything s/he can do to help this succeed.

I want you to be wrong too but know that you are spot on in the context of immigration politics.

[gs1968]

Its not over till its over..lets wait and watch! We will know tomorrow. We have failed in the past so once bitten twice shy
There's not a lot of doubt left. Sen.Lee is not going to be embarrassed again on the Senate floor twice and will not be bringing it up unless he is absolutely sure. Agreed there are a lot of Senators with reservation about the bill but they have not offered any reasonable alternative anyway. Once it clears the Senate it should be passed in the house by voice vote hopefully later tomorrow. I expect an early approval in the day in the Senate.

[Blue_fairy]

Assuming HR1044 is passed tomorrow, how soon can the EB backlogged countries see relief? Immediately? In 1 year, in 2 or 5?

My PD is Oct 2009.

[idliman]

Assuming HR1044 is passed tomorrow, how soon can the EB backlogged countries see relief? Immediately? In 1 year, in 2 or 5?

My PD is Oct 2009.
I expect about 30,000x3 GCs [EB1 to EB3] to be available to backlogged countries in the next year. As the EB3 queue is thinner than EB2, EB3 will move much faster again. We will still talk about porting. However India PDs should safely move by two years for EB2I (due to interview mandate the actual approvals will be smaller) and three years for EB3I. You will be current before the end of 2019. However, lets wait and see. Don't count the chickens until they hatch. Some never do.

[idliman]

For people who want to know more about the importance of Senate's Unanimous Consent (UC) vote see Khan Academy Video (https://www.khanacademy.org/humanities/us-government-and-civics/us-gov-interactions-among-branches/us-gov-structures-powers-and-functions-of-congress/v/senate-filibusters-unanimous-consent-and-cloture). All today's vote is doing is avoiding filibuster and taking it to the senate floor for obtaining 51 votes. With 34 co-sponsors already, getting to 51 will not be a problem. However, having to obtain 60 votes instead of 51 means the difference between life and death.

[NJMavarick]

There's not a lot of doubt left. Sen.Lee is not going to be embarrassed again on the Senate floor twice and will not be bringing it up unless he is absolutely sure. Agreed there are a lot of Senators with reservation about the bill but they have not offered any reasonable alternative anyway. Once it clears the Senate it should be passed in the house by voice vote hopefully later tomorrow. I expect an early approval in the day in the Senate.

What you are saying makes sense but all it takes is One Senator to object it. This is politics and anything can happen. Keeping fingers crossed!

[NJMavarick]

Getting messages that Bernard Sanders is opposed to this! I have called the office asking for support..Lets see what impact it has or is this even true!

[vbollu]

I expect about 30,000x3 GCs [EB1 to EB3] to be available to backlogged countries in the next year. As the EB3 queue is thinner than EB2, EB3 will move much faster again. We will still talk about porting. However India PDs should safely move by two years for EB2I (due to interview mandate the actual approvals will be smaller) and three years for EB3I. You will be current before the end of 2019. However, lets wait and see. Don't count the chickens until they hatch. Some never do.

on first year 85% of 130k visas minus (-) 5k visas, goes to the backlogged countries and subsequent years its 90% of 130k - 5k visas. so roughly 110k visas per year are available for backlogged countries.

[vbollu]

where did you got this info, I haven't find any where this in the news.

[qesehmk]

Getting messages that Bernard Sanders is opposed to this! I have called the office asking for support..Lets see what impact it has or is this even true!
If you speak with him or his staff ... just ask him how it is ok in 21st century that the system discriminates people based on the country of their origin?

[NJMavarick]

If you speak with him or his staff ... just ask him how it is ok in 21st century that the system discriminates people based on the country of their origin?

Will do. Apparently, the staffer is getting so many calls that he is just asking if you are in favor Yes or No and then hangs up

[qesehmk]

Will do. Apparently, the staffer is getting so many calls that he is just asking if you are in favor Yes or No and then hangs up

I am a big fan of Bernie ... a good guy like him doesn't quite understand the pain of backlogged community.
This just goes to show the need to educate senators congressmen and public in general how much injustice is inflicted based on country of origin.

[abcx13]

I just called Bernie's DC office. The operator who picked up didn't even say Hello and directly asked if I'm calling in support or opposition of S386. I said in support. She said I'll note down your comment. I asked why Senator Sanders is opposed to it. She said he is not voting on it at the moment. I asked if he intends to put a hold on it. She didn't have an answer. I added that I hope Sen. Sanders understands that all the bill does is move from an un-American discriminatory national origin quota to a first come, first serve system. I didn't get a clear answer to what Sanders' view is on the subject. I don't think they were taking any notes and frankly I think they are deluged by the calls they are getting.

[gs1968]

Sen.Perdue has objected to UC

[abcx13]

Sen.Perdue has objected to UCYup, live on C-Span right now. Mike Lee responding - stumbling a little bit, sounds like he didn't expect the objection, but I don't know how the Senate works.

[idliman]

Sen David Purdue GA objected to UC.

[kuku82]

he has a prepared speech, seems he knew earlier in the day

[PDAUG2011]

Sen David Purdue GA objected to UC.

now in that case what happens next, anyone has any idea?

[abcx13]

Anyone know what his objection is?

[gs1968]

He said that he was supportive of the concept but was concerned about the impact it would have on certain industries and felt that the language needs to be clarified further. I am assuming this means another carve out from Eb-3 as the cat is already out of the bag when Sen.Paul was given his nurses' quota. Sen. Lee said he would be back next week after working on these issues over the weekend

[iatiam]

I am a big fan of Bernie ... a good guy like him doesn't quite understand the pain of backlogged community.
This just goes to show the need to educate senators congressmen and public in general how much injustice is inflicted based on country of origin.

FYI. Sanders wants to decrease legal immigration and reduce H1Bs. This was his position in 2016 and that is his position now.

[cancer24]

So what happens now?

[Blue_fairy]

HR 1044 FAILED. The likelihood of an immigration bill passing the senate is inversely proportional to the excitement among folks from India.

[jackbrown_890]

appears to be a new hold by another senator.

[Blue_fairy]

After Rand Paul got his way, cat is out of the hat. More holds, more dilution and baba ji ka thullu business as usual in the end :-)

[TheLureoftheGreen]

appears to be a new hold by another senator.

Mike Lee and Harris will need to negotiate with Purdue. Purdue is looking for a carve-out (based on his comments accompanying his objection). Without his hold removed there cannot be a unanimous consent. My guess is that it'll be brought up for UC once more. Mike Lee said that he hopes to work through the issues over the weekend to bring the resolution back for UC next week. But this is the Senate. I wouldn't put much stock on the hopes of seeing this up for UC anytime soon.

[Blue_fairy]

latest - it will be tabled again in Senate next week. Senator Lee's team is working overtime on addressing every single objection. The mood in their camp is very positive and they believe next week is likely the culmination of all their efforts.

*don't ask me for my source and assume I have none*

[NJMavarick]

latest - it will be tabled again in Senate next week. Senator Lee's team is working overtime on addressing every single objection. The mood in their camp is very positive and they believe next week is likely the culmination of all their efforts.

*don't ask me for my source and assume I have none*

Indeed the mood seems very positive! I wonder if Mike Lee knew about the objection before it came up for UC. I read in one of the groups that there are total 3 objections. If Lee reaches a compromise with Purdue, will there be another objection? If not now, I do not think this will ever get passes. <sigh>

[TheLureoftheGreen]

latest - it will be tabled again in Senate next week. Senator Lee's team is working overtime on addressing every single objection. The mood in their camp is very positive and they believe next week is likely the culmination of all their efforts.

*don't ask me for my source and assume I have none*

How about Bernie? Did he decide to not object knowing full well that Purdue was going to? Do we know anything about that? Else, we'll just see another "surprise" objection next time...

[smuggymba]

latest - it will be tabled again in Senate next week. Senator Lee's team is working overtime on addressing every single objection. The mood in their camp is very positive and they believe next week is likely the culmination of all their efforts.

*don't ask me for my source and assume I have none*

Even though it failed today, kudos to IV for bringing it thus far. It takes a lot of effort to bring it in the Senate second/third time despite so much opposition.

Let's see what happens next week. Faint chance is still good rather than no chance.

[qesehmk]

Reduce H1B is something that is consistent with his political base and his stance over the years. "Reduce Legal Immigration" is something new. I am hearing it for the first time.
FYI. Sanders wants to decrease legal immigration and reduce H1Bs. This was his position in 2016 and that is his position now.

[qesehmk]

I is an uphill task as there is virtually nobody in backlogged people's camp. Left / Right / Corporations you name it.

However IV and whoever else contributed need congratulations for at least trying.

HR 1044 FAILED. The likelihood of an immigration bill passing the senate is inversely proportional to the excitement among folks from India.

[Blue_fairy]

Reduce H1B is something that is consistent with his political base and his stance over the years. "Reduce Legal Immigration" is something new. I am hearing it for the first time.

He probably lost the nomination today!

[suninphx]

Yes- IV trying their best. Wondering if they should change strategy and focus on getting something piecemeal. Like getting EADs at least. Big bang approach has failed enough times.

[NJMavarick]

Yes- IV trying their best. Wondering if they should change strategy and focus on getting something piecemeal. Like getting EADs at least. Big bang approach has failed enough times.

I think enough capital is spent on this to start something new. This is the root cause which they are trying to address.

[jackbrown_890]

I is an uphill task as there is virtually nobody in backlogged people's camp. Left / Right / Corporations you name it.

However IV and whoever else contributed need congratulations for at least trying.

Your prediction was correct again ...(for now)

[idliman]

Your prediction was correct again ...(for now)
"Remember, Red, hope is a good thing, maybe the best of things, and no good thing ever dies." Shawshank Redemption.

If the bill had passed, I would have said in your face "Q". But he is realistic without emotion. My brain kept telling me to be realistic, however the heart was racing. I guess you need a lot of training to take emotion out.

Anyway, good game friends. My wife sent me her regrets. A couple of friends with late 2009 PDs sent their messages on this topic. Life goes on.

"When life gets you down, you know what you gotta do? Just keep swimming." Finding Nemo

[bookworm]

The problem with immigration is that immigrants forget once they are naturalized. There are few like Q who keep pushing the agenda. If 140K+ immigrants get naturalized each year and vote as a bloc then Bernie or Trump can not afford to ignore immigration. If we consider only the last 20 years as a period of struggle that means 2.8 MM went through this struggle. Just to put it in context total number of Jewish voters that both the parties pander to is 5.3 MM.

[smuggymba]

The problem with immigration is that immigrants forget once they are naturalized. There are few like Q who keep pushing the agenda. If 140K+ immigrants get naturalized each year and vote as a bloc then Bernie or Trump can not afford to ignore immigration. If we consider only the last 20 years as a period of struggle that means 2.8 MM went through this struggle. Just to put it in context total number of Jewish voters that both the parties pander to is 5.3 MM.

What does Perdue want - More visa for nurses or less visa for nurses. I'm hearing both versions.

[TheLureoftheGreen]

What does Perdue want - More visa for nurses or less visa for nurses. I'm hearing both versions.

Do we know what he wants? He provided no indication of what he specifically wants changed in the resolution other than that he is concerned about the impact on certain "industries". The carve-out for nurses was for Rand Paul.

[newyorker123]

I have not looked at the C-Span videos but one of the news articles mentions that Perdue in his statement was actually quite positive about the bill, and was willing to discuss in detail with Mike Lee. Even though I am not optimistic about the bill given the blows in the past years, I would still be looking forward to when/if the bill is tabled for a second time next week. :)

[qesehmk]

Of everything you wrote Idli this sentence puzzled me. You guys in different places - physically and GC journey wise?
My wife sent me her regrets.

On another note - I am currently watching Roussevelts on NetFlix. I always admired FDR. But because of this docuseries now I have come to greatly admire Teddy Roussevelt too. One of his advisors once asked him how come some his views were not strictly constitutionalist. On that Teddy said, "Constitution is there to serve people. Not the other way around."

I feel the same way about all existing laws around immigration or even the constitution itself. The principle of non-discrimination and equality is bigger than any law on the books or the constitution itself. And hence you should trust America's ability to be fair. Accordingly in addition to the current efforts, backlogged immigrants should also try to fight the immigration battle in the courts and in the court of public opinion based on principle of non-discrimination and equal opportunity.

[Jonty Rhodes]

Of everything you wrote Idli this sentence puzzled me. You guys in different places - physically and GC journey wise?

On another note - I am currently watching Roussevelts on NetFlix. I always admired FDR. But because of this docuseries now I have come to greatly admire Teddy Roussevelt too. One of his advisors once asked him how come some his views were not strictly constitutionalist. On that Teddy said, "Constitution is there to serve people. Not the other way around."

I feel the same way about all existing laws around immigration or even the constitution itself. The principle of non-discrimination and equality is bigger than any law on the books or the constitution itself. And hence you should trust America's ability to be fair. Accordingly in addition to the current efforts, backlogged immigrants should also try to fight the immigration battle in the courts and in the court of public opinion based on principle of non-discrimination and equal opportunity.

Q, you have mentioned many times about fighting this battle in the courts but one thing that I fail to understand is that how can you win this in court? There is a law that Congress made. The system is working as per the law. Right now there is a backlog for certain countries because there is more demand than supply from those countries. However that doesn't mean that the law is not doing its job.

I am not arguing in favor of the law of country caps. But whether I like the law or not, it is still the law and the system is following that law and working according to it.

The job of the court is to interpret laws and not change them or make new laws. That is the job of Congress. So how can a backlogged candidate appeal to court saying this is discrimination because he has to wait for decades to get green card due to country cap? Because if the candidate makes that argument, the court is just going to defer that to Congress and ask the candidate to approach members of Congress and do advocacy for changing the law. How can a court override the law made by Congress?

You have made the case for fighting this issue in court multiple times but my personal feeling is that the case will not stand in court even for a day. If it was a indeed genuine way of solving this issue, then someone would have approached the court by now. I believe advocacy remains the only way.

[rock581]

https://www.facebook.com/178081365556898/posts/2630530796978597

Senator Lee's post today.

[PD2008AUG25]

How about Bernie? Did he decide to not object knowing full well that Purdue was going to? Do we know anything about that? Else, we'll just see another "surprise" objection next time...

Let's not forget Bernie is heavily influenced by his Pakistani campaign manager Faiz Shakir, who is behind Bernie's comments on Kashmir. Pakistanis are against this bill for obvious reasons.

[iatiam]

Let's not forget Bernie is heavily influenced by his Pakistani campaign manager Faiz Shakir, who is behind Bernie's comments on Kashmir. Pakistanis are against this bill for obvious reasons.

Actually Bernie has opposed high skilled immigration since his first campaign in 2016 and he has been consistent on his views since years if not decades. So give the man his due. But ot course the chances of him getting nomination or becoming the president are very very low. One potential issue is the damage he can do to the current bill. Also note that Ilhan Omar and Rashida Talib opposed the bill in House and voted against it. So this seems to be a trend among far left politicians.

Iatiam

[qesehmk]

Jonty - it is mighty progress to advocate against country caps as opposed to EAD relief and similar issues IV used to advocate for. As I said they should give this blog its due.

However I disagree that advocacy (i.e. legislative way) is the only way. I think nobody has even tried courts. Second public opinion is another way to make advocacy even more effective. The moment people realize how much injustice Indians and Chinese are facing ... believe me .. they will root for you.

As I said earlier in my post - principles and values and peoples' wishes are bigger than laws regulations and even constitution. Hence it is critical to appeal to Americans' sense of justice.


Q, you have mentioned many times about fighting this battle in the courts but one thing that I fail to understand is that how can you win this in court? There is a law that Congress made. The system is working as per the law. Right now there is a backlog for certain countries because there is more demand than supply from those countries. However that doesn't mean that the law is not doing its job.

I am not arguing in favor of the law of country caps. But whether I like the law or not, it is still the law and the system is following that law and working according to it.

The job of the court is to interpret laws and not change them or make new laws. That is the job of Congress. So how can a backlogged candidate appeal to court saying this is discrimination because he has to wait for decades to get green card due to country cap? Because if the candidate makes that argument, the court is just going to defer that to Congress and ask the candidate to approach members of Congress and do advocacy for changing the law. How can a court override the law made by Congress?

You have made the case for fighting this issue in court multiple times but my personal feeling is that the case will not stand in court even for a day. If it was a indeed genuine way of solving this issue, then someone would have approached the court by now. I believe advocacy remains the only way.

[FarAwayfromGC]

Actually Bernie has opposed high skilled immigration since his first campaign in 2016 and he has been consistent on his views since years if not decades. So give the man his due. But of course the chances of him getting nomination or becoming the president are very very low. One potential issue is the damage he can do to the current bill. Also note that Ilhan Omar and Rashida Talib opposed the bill in House and voted against it. So this seems to be a trend among far left politicians.

Iatiam

Bernie is far far left and he will never jump on the legal immigration band wagon. I think not only Ilhan Omar and Rashida Talib, Democrats were generally never good for India.

As Q quoted - - for such a change in the political mindset, people of America should get involved , Q is absolutely right. IV or other organizations should talk about this as much as possible through main stream media. Besides, we ourselves should talk about it with Americans we meet and greet everyday to spread the knowledge. Many Americans I talk to, have no knowledge of Legal immigration but, are well aware of DACA.

[NJMavarick]

Jonty - it is mighty progress to advocate against country caps as opposed to EAD relief and similar issues IV used to advocate for. As I said they should give this blog its due.

However I disagree that advocacy (i.e. legislative way) is the only way. I think nobody has even tried courts. Second public opinion is another way to make advocacy even more effective. The moment people realize how much injustice Indians and Chinese are facing ... believe me .. they will root for you.

As I said earlier in my post - principles and values and peoples' wishes are bigger than laws regulations and even constitution. Hence it is critical to appeal to Americans' sense of justice.

Q - Who knows! God forbid if this does not work then maybe IV would decide to take this approach. This is the most conducive time for having this bill passed. If not now, then I do not see this passing ever...

[iatiam]

Jonty - it is mighty progress to advocate against country caps as opposed to EAD relief and similar issues IV used to advocate for. As I said they should give this blog its due.

However I disagree that advocacy (i.e. legislative way) is the only way. I think nobody has even tried courts. Second public opinion is another way to make advocacy even more effective. The moment people realize how much injustice Indians and Chinese are facing ... believe me .. they will root for you.

As I said earlier in my post - principles and values and peoples' wishes are bigger than laws regulations and even constitution. Hence it is critical to appeal to Americans' sense of justice.

So who are we supposed to sue? USCIS for implementing the laws of the country or the Federal government for using it's sovereign rights to decide who enters the country?

Iatiam

[qesehmk]

IATIAM, I hope you understand that it's not my fight and it's not my path to walk on. I can only show you the way ... these are good questions to brainstorm as part of your strategy. As I said --- if I were doing these things I will wage a war on 3 fronts:

1) Courts
2) Public Opinion and Corporations
3) Legislative Bodies

Right now only #3 is being pursued which is necessary but not sufficient.

So who are we supposed to sue? USCIS for implementing the laws of the country or the Federal government for using it's sovereign rights to decide who enters the country?

Iatiam

[Immigo]

IATIAM, I hope you understand that it's not my fight and it's not my path to walk on. I can only show you the way ... these are good questions to brainstorm as part of your strategy. As I said --- if I were doing these things I will wage a war on 3 fronts:

1) Courts
2) Public Opinion and Corporations
3) Legislative Bodies

Right now only #3 is being pursued which is necessary but not sufficient.

Using this thread to brainstorm on an idea for approaching courts. Will be great if you share inputs for feasibility of this as this has been on my mind for some time now. The idea aims at going to court for being able to apply for citizenship (without necessarily getting a GC as the numerical limitations only pertain to to GC and not citizenship). As per instructions for form N-400 (application for naturalization), the following are the eligibility criteria for applying for naturalization.

1. You are at least 18 years of age at the time of filing (except active duty members of the U.S. Armed Forces);
2. You are a permanent resident of the United States for a required period of time;
3. You have lived within the state or USCIS district where you claim residence for at least 3 months prior to filing;
4. You have demonstrated physical presence within the United States for a required period of time;
5. You have demonstrated continuous residence for a required period of time;
6. You demonstrate good moral character;
7. You demonstrate an attachment to the principles and ideals of the U.S. Constitution;
8. You demonstrate a basic knowledge of U.S. history and government (also known as “civics”) as well as an ability to
read, write, speak and understand basic English; and
9. You take an Oath of Allegiance to the United States. Some applicants may be eligible for a modified oath.

Most of us will meet all criteria except 2. The idea is to go to court for the definition of 'permanent resident'. Since H1-B with approved I-140 is renewable in perpetuity, why is it not considered permanent ? Perhaps the case for people on EAD after filing I-485 is even stronger.

IMO, best people to challenge this will be EB2-NIW candidates who have EAD. This will be because EB2-NIW does not need to be backed by an approved labour. Therefore EB2-NIW + EAD candidates ARE permanent residents.

If a challenge in court is successful, this will imply at least people with EB2-NIW, who have an EAD for 5 years, will be able to apply for citizenship. In the best case scenario, even people who have an approved I-140 > 5 years, will be able to apply for citizenship.

[jimmys]

I think enough capital is spent on this to start something new. This is the root cause which they are trying to address.

The root cause is not country cap. 140K is not enough visas for EB category. Remember, India always received more GCs than 7% most years in EB1/2/3 category.

In my opinion, allocating 30% for the most backlogged country would have been much better. The backlogged country is guaranteed certain visas and others would have to wait probably 12-18 months. Such bill wouldn't have attracted ROWers to lobby against it.

What country cap removal will achieve is, spread the pain unanimously which I think is not good. Many ROWers apply GC while on OPT itself and they don't even apply H-1Bs. Country cap removal will force everyone apply for H-1Bs which in turn reduce the total H-1Bs from India.

Any day, I would have taken 30% for most backlogged country than going for everything. 30% and I-140 EAD would have been awesome without catching anyone's attention.

Just my $.02

[jackbrown_890]

Using this thread to brainstorm on an idea for approaching courts. Will be great if you share inputs for feasibility of this as this has been on my mind for some time now. The idea aims at going to court for being able to apply for citizenship (without necessarily getting a GC as the numerical limitations only pertain to to GC and not citizenship). As per instructions for form N-400 (application for naturalization), the following are the eligibility criteria for applying for naturalization.

1. You are at least 18 years of age at the time of filing (except active duty members of the U.S. Armed Forces);
2. You are a permanent resident of the United States for a required period of time;
3. You have lived within the state or USCIS district where you claim residence for at least 3 months prior to filing;
4. You have demonstrated physical presence within the United States for a required period of time;
5. You have demonstrated continuous residence for a required period of time;
6. You demonstrate good moral character;
7. You demonstrate an attachment to the principles and ideals of the U.S. Constitution;
8. You demonstrate a basic knowledge of U.S. history and government (also known as “civics”) as well as an ability to
read, write, speak and understand basic English; and
9. You take an Oath of Allegiance to the United States. Some applicants may be eligible for a modified oath.

Most of us will meet all criteria except 2. The idea is to go to court for the definition of 'permanent resident'. Since H1-B with approved I-140 is renewable in perpetuity, why is it not considered permanent ? Perhaps the case for people on EAD after filing I-485 is even stronger.

IMO, best people to challenge this will be EB2-NIW candidates who have EAD. This will be because EB2-NIW does not need to be backed by an approved labour. Therefore EB2-NIW + EAD candidates ARE permanent residents.

If a challenge in court is successful, this will imply at least people with EB2-NIW, who have an EAD for 5 years, will be able to apply for citizenship. In the best case scenario, even people who have an approved I-140 > 5 years, will be able to apply for citizenship.

You are basically challenging definition of "Permanent resident". As per the law it is clear who is considered permanent resident: Any person not a citizen of the United States who is living in the U.S. under legally recognized and lawfully recorded permanent residence as an immigrant. Also known as “permanent resident alien,” “resident alien permit holder,” and “Green Card holder.”
Key words= Legally recognized and lawfully recorded...
It is going to be really difficult to challenge that in the court.

[smuggymba]

What country cap removal will achieve is, spread the pain unanimously which I think is not good. Many ROWers apply GC while on OPT itself and they don't even apply H-1Bs. Country cap removal will force everyone apply for H-1Bs which in turn reduce the total H-1Bs from
Just my $.02

Good; the pain should be EQUAL for ALL; they they all might come to the table to find a consensus. Status Quo works awesome for ROW; express lane no wait.

[bookworm]

What does Perdue want - More visa for nurses or less visa for nurses. I'm hearing both versions.

Read somewhere else that Perdue-Lee have a deal. Nurses will get 15K instead of 8K. Likely to be up for UC tomorrow.

Now waiting for Bernie to pop up with a carve out for agricultural workers :rolleyes:

[NJMavarick]

Read somewhere else that Perdue-Lee have a deal. Nurses will get 15K instead of 8K. Likely to be up for UC tomorrow.

Now waiting for Bernie to pop up with a carve out for agricultural workers :rolleyes:

True! Looking at this..whats stopping another Senator to request for some other carve out! Knowing that all it takes is one Senator..I am not too optimistic. Mind says No, Heart says Yes.

[EB22010Dec]

True! Looking at this..whats stopping another Senator to request for some other carve out! Knowing that all it takes is one Senator..I am not too optimistic. Mind says No, Heart says Yes.

Marsha Blackburn seems to say no as well.... we shall see.

[smuggymba]

Marsha Blackburn seems to say no as well.... we shall see.

apparently that's an older letter so her current position might be different.

[smuggymba]

Read somewhere else that Perdue-Lee have a deal. Nurses will get 15K instead of 8K. Likely to be up for UC tomorrow.

Now waiting for Bernie to pop up with a carve out for agricultural workers :rolleyes:

Nurses had 5K for the next 9 years under Rand deal, where is this 8K/15K coming from. Well what about other industries...agriculture, poultry, research, astrophysics and biotech. LOL.

If that happens, I'd be impressed by the lobby of Nurses and who is funding them.

If it doesn't pass this time around, it will be political suicide for Mike Lee; he better do his homework properly and have it checked before going to school.

[NJMavarick]

Nurses had 5K for the next 9 years under Rand deal, where is this 8K/15K coming from. Well what about other industries...agriculture, poultry, research, astrophysics and biotech. LOL.

If that happens, I'd be impressed by the lobby of Nurses and who is funding them.

If it doesn't pass this time around, it will be political suicide for Mike Lee; he better do his homework properly and have it checked before going to school.

Why wold you think it would be political suicide for Mike Lee if it does not pass? If that were the case, I am sure Democratic Senators would have been opposed to this. While I do think, before UC he needs to make sure that there are no other objections.

[smuggymba]

Why wold you think it would be political suicide for Mike Lee if it does not pass? If that were the case, I am sure Democratic Senators would have been opposed to this. While I do think, before UC he needs to make sure that there are no other objections.

What I mean is he can't go for UC THIRD time around and have another Senator block it. Going for UC after UC after UC will make a mockery of him and the process and brings in more bad press. So, better be prepared well this time.

[Raj0687]

So far many ROW students were not applying H1B, they were getting GC straight from OPT. There are many instances where their H1B is rejected, but GC is approved. With S386 bill, H1B rules are getting even more harder and here on wards every body has to apply for H1B in order to stay here and get a GC.

For them getting GC is far more easier now than H1B. That's the primary reason why hate this bill.

These are the ones competing with avg/below skilled Americans, not the people from big countries, who survive going through multiple H1B extension.

This big selling point on this bill is strict H1B rules, so please be aware of this and mention this to your senators explicitly.

[EB22010Dec]

Looks like David Perdue agreed, but not Dick Durbin put a hold.
I don't think UC will work, we shall see.

[gten20]

Looks like David Perdue agreed, but not Dick Durbin put a hold.
I don't think UC will work, we shall see.

It's a marathon... and in a marathon the last mile is the hardest.. don't give up... keep at it!

[gs1968]

Looks like David Perdue agreed, but not Dick Durbin put a hold.
I don't think UC will work, we shall see.
Coming up for UC tomorrow according to Sen.Lee but is concerned about Sen.Durbin

[smuggymba]

Coming up for UC tomorrow according to Sen.Lee but is concerned about Sen.Durbin

Eagerly waiting for tomorrow; either Mike Lee is confident or he is setting up for giving up speech. Time will tell. Too many variables as of now; will be online on C-Span tomorrow :)

[gs1968]

Eagerly waiting for tomorrow; either Mike Lee is confident or he is setting up for giving up speech. Time will tell. Too many variables as of now; will be online on C-Span tomorrow :)

I agree. The timing is critical if they want this implemented by the start of fiscal year 2020. They expect immediate house concurrence without any conference. This will be a very useful first step towards expanding GC availability

[EB22010Dec]

I agree. The timing is critical if they want this implemented by the start of fiscal year 2020. They expect immediate house concurrence without any conference. This will be a very useful first step towards expanding GC availability

Postponed ... what ever it means.

[FarAwayfromGC]

Eagerly waiting for tomorrow; either Mike Lee is confident or he is setting up for giving up speech. Time will tell. Too many variables as of now; will be online on C-Span tomorrow :)

IV tweeted this morning

"We would like to share that the Unanimous Consent request for The Fairness For High Skilled Immigrants Act has been postponed. Members from the state of Illinois need to continue calling and sharing their stories with Senator Durbin."

Seems it will be delayed. Anyone has more information on this ? Please share.

[gs1968]

NIAC posted that Sen. Lee was asked to hold off on the unanimous consent vote because the new version of the bill cuts legal immigration.
I am assuming this is a result of the deal with Sen.Perdue but there is no specific amendment showing up yet on GPO. It is possible that the language of the agreement was incorporated into the Bill itself as a substitute and so no separate amendment shows up. It seems like with every agreement reached they are straying further away from the House Bill and the base S.386 bill. Senate votes are scheduled between 1215 and 130pm and I expect they will recess and come back after Columbus Day. No cloture motions are pending after this

PS-AILA has the new version of the Bill below.Increases nurses quota to 7200

https://www.aila.org/File/Related/19080632.pdf

It does appear like the derivative applicants for the 7200 visas are restricted to no more than 2800 per year.This could possibly be the reason.

[rock581]

https://twitter.com/psyinfeld/status/1177355239877427200?s=21

Senator Dick Durbin making a mockery of all Indians. Lets make sure we have our voices heard.

[this2shallpass]

Adding insult to injury as if we haven't had enough already
If we cannot even unite now and speak in one voice, I think we don’t deserve any better

Must show our outrage and speak up

[FarAwayfromGC]

https://twitter.com/psyinfeld/status/1177355239877427200?s=21

Senator Dick Durbin making a mockery of all Indians. Lets make sure we have our voices heard.

We should share it with all democrat's who sponsored the house bill.

[gten20]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=73s8aosYnkM

Senator Dick Durbin has already made up his mind. I don't know if phone calls will work anymore. IV needs to come up with a different strategy.

[rocketfast]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=73s8aosYnkM

Senator Dick Durbin has already made up his mind. I don't know if phone calls will work anymore. IV needs to come up with a different strategy.

Yeah. In hindsight, it should have been something like 50% FCFS and 50% current situation, may have reduced opposition drastically. It is too late now. Unanimous consent is almost impossible.


Was just seeing USCIS director Cuccinelli's interview with CIS. He mentions:

1. The reason they are not able to move forward with H4EAD abolition is because they have higher priority things around souther border that came up. And that the interventionist in the lawsuit (IV) carries heft and they can't just compromise with lawsuit filers.

2. Around S386, he says that he has no sympathy for Iranian Americans. He seemed a little sympathetic towards Indian situation. But he sees no chance that the legislation can go through with unanimous consent.

[smuggymba]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=73s8aosYnkM

Senator Dick Durbin has already made up his mind. I don't know if phone calls will work anymore. IV needs to come up with a different strategy.

These ROW guys, whose worst case scenario is that they have to wait 5 years are coming together in full force and we desis are sitting home waiting for someone else to do something.

PS: I have met with congressmen's staff multiple times (not with IV though) so I try to do my bit. My close friends are too busy and have too many things going to be be thinking about this backlog.

We as desis, deserve to be in backlog.

[this2shallpass]

These ROW guys, whose worst case scenario is that they have to wait 5 years are coming together in full force and we desis are sitting home waiting for someone else to do something.

PS: I have met with congressmen's staff multiple times (not with IV though) so I try to do my bit. My close friends are too busy and have too many things going to be be thinking about this backlog.

We as desis, deserve to be in backlog.

If we do not stand up for ourselves , no one else will
Its surprising that ROW unity beats us almost everywhere. Look at the ROw'ers clapping and shouting in that video. Hey, they seem to beat us even at trolling ....and we are supposed to be the IT experts !
If we are 560, 000 - Why can't we show up and get counted under one word . DISCRIMINATION.

Can someone ask the Senator - do countries immigrate or individuals immigrate ? If Indians can wait 56 years , why the rest cannot wait for their turn ?

[abcx13]

Here are a few truths we can derive from this:

The bill is dead
Durbin is an ass(h***)
America continues to be a racist nation
At the end of the day it's each race / nationality / person for themselves
Modi's Howdy is a joke because he has actually no leverage or sway over Trump
If the Irish or Israeli or any other nationality were being screwed other than Indians, this would have been fixed a long time ago

On a personal note, I'm glad I got my Canadian PR. I would rather pay taxes there and become a citizen in three years.

[qesehmk]

America continues to be a racist nation


There is not really anything I can say that can really help you and others with your hurt.

But I just wanted to say that America sure has a racist past as well as its fair share of racism even today. However America is not a racist country. I know today my words may not make much sense to you. But hopefully someday you will realize this.

Immigration policy used to be driven purely through economic and geopolitical objectives. The Trump folks have injected racism into it. But America will bounce back to sanity sooner or later.

[qesehmk]

Here are a few truths we can derive from this:

The bill is dead
Durbin is an ass(h***)
America continues to be a racist nation
At the end of the day it's each race / nationality / person for themselves
Modi's Howdy is a joke because he has actually no leverage or sway over Trump
If the Irish or Israeli or any other nationality were being screwed other than Indians, this would have been fixed a long time ago

On a personal note, I'm glad I got my Canadian PR. I would rather pay taxes there and become a citizen in three years.

Congratulations on your canadian PR. I am curious if you live in US?

[vedu]

Guys,

The system is what it is. You have to work within the limits of the current system and do what's best for you. I have listed a few things below that you can do to safeguard your future. Note that practicing the art of delayed gratification is big part of it.

1. Find a job that you really enjoy, because you are going to stuck with it for a very long time. Even if it means transferring your immigration status to a new employer (H1b transfer, etc.)

2. Make sure your spouse doesn't sit idle either waiting for GC. She can either find a job for herself or advance her education that will make her employable and be able to get her own H1b (in case H4 EAD is gone, you should rely on nothing).

3. Work hard and make yourself indispensable to your employers.

4. Save, save, save, and invest, invest, invest with a good solid investment plan. There are no get rich quick schemes here. A good investment plan is always long term just like your GC wait (delayed gratification).

5. Do not lock yourself in any physical assets such as house, expensive cars, etc. In case something goes wrong and your have to leave the country, you should be able to liquidate everything with a click of a button. Renting is not bad no matter how much people will try to convince you the other way. Particularly, renting is not bad when your rent is paid from the dividends/capital gains from your investments that you made instead of putting that money towards down payments, big house expenses, etc.

6. The idea of the above two bullet points is that you should be in a position to retire comfortably in India if you have to go back because of the GC mess. Then if you decide to work in India, good for you. But it should be optional. Note that financial independence is the true independence. I have seen people who got the GC after a long time and then stuck themselves all over again in a big house and 30 year expensive mortgage. That type of independence is hollow.

7. Produce babies, at least two of them for reliability reasons (remember every plane has two engines in case one dies). When they become 21 years old (delayed gratification), they can sponsor your GC and you will get it with no wait. Now the game has changed. You are a parent of a U.S. citizen and the system will work for you whether you are in US or outside of US 5-10 years from now.

8. It seems one of the big things in desi community is to show their parents America. Make sure you do that at least once for both side parents, so that bucket list item will be off of your chest in case you have to leave the country. While they are here, they can also babysit your kids for 6 months at a time when you and your spouse are busy in your respective jobs.

Some of the above listed points may seem harsh and cold. But do you have any other alternative? As time passes, GC will become irrelevant. Waiting for GC when you have a million dollars in Bank is lot more fun than waiting for GC when you have only, say $25,000 in bank. Hope this helps!

[imdeng]

Vedu - this is the perfect post for this time! Thank You!!

Everything you say is what all of us should be doing. I personally have followed everything you wrote except the house thing - selling a house in US is a piece of cake and the process can be pretty much automated with little to no personal involvement. A 2.75% mortgage was too juicy to pass up. But I still drive my 11 year old Toyota (runs like new) - so with you on the car thing.

I would really emphasize the saving and investing part. I particularly recommend the Boglehead approach (see bogleheads.org). The process becomes much easier if you can back that up with a sizable portfolio. Then even if GC doesn't work, your stay in the country has set you up for future.

[rock581]

Vedu -

Thanks for the post. It would have taken you an hour + to write this.

However, this is exactly the defeatist attitude that has been sinking Indians. No offense to you, there are some items that folks should be doing regardless.

The message should be to change the system and not sit back.



Guys,

The system is what it is. You have to work within the limits of the current system and do what's best for you. I have listed a few things below that you can do to safeguard your future. Note that practicing the art of delayed gratification is big part of it.

1. Find a job that you really enjoy, because you are going to stuck with it for a very long time. Even if it means transferring your immigration status to a new employer (H1b transfer, etc.)

2. Make sure your spouse doesn't sit idle either waiting for GC. She can either find a job for herself or advance her education that will make her employable and be able to get her own H1b (in case H4 EAD is gone, you should rely on nothing).

3. Work hard and make yourself indispensable to your employers.

4. Save, save, save, and invest, invest, invest with a good solid investment plan. There are no get rick quick schemes here. A good investment plan is always long term just like your GC wait (delayed gratification).

5. Do not lock yourself in any physical assets such as house, expensive cars, etc. In case something goes wrong and your have to leave the country, you should be able to liquidate everything with a click of a button. Renting is not bad no matter how much people will try to convince you the other way. Particularly, renting is not bad when your rent is paid from the dividends/capital gains from your investments that you made instead of putting that money towards down payments, big house expenses, etc.

6. The idea of the above two bullet points is that you should be in a position to retire comfortably in India if you have to go back because of the GC mess. Then if you decide to work in India, good for you. But it should be optional. Note that financial independence is the true independence. I have seen people who got the GC after a long time and then stuck themselves all over again in a big house and 30 year expensive mortgage. That type of independence is hollow.

7. Produce babies, at least two of them for reliability reasons (remember every plane has two engines in case one dies). When they become 21 years old (delayed gratification), they can sponsor your GC and you will get it with no wait. Now the game has changed. You are a parent of a U.S. citizen and the system will work for you whether you are in US or outside of US 5-10 years from now.

8. It seems one of the big things in desi community is to show their parents America. Make sure you do that at least once for both side parents, so that bucket list item will be off of your chest in case you have to leave the country. While they are here, they can also babysit your kids for 6 months at a time when you and your spouse are busy in your respective jobs.

Some of the above listed points may seem harsh and cold. But do you have any other alternative? As time passes, GC will become irrelevant. Waiting for GC when you have a million dollars in Bank is lot more fun than waiting for GC when you have only, say $25,000 in bank. Hope this helps!

[abcx13]

Congratulations on your canadian PR. I am curious if you live in US?

Thanks. Yes, I live in the US and am still here. I would not have applied if not for the mess that the US is.

I first heard about Canadian Express Entry last May, applied by September since I was eligible, was approved in December, received the counterfoil at the end of January, and did my 'landing' in September which starts the clock to spend 2 years there out of the next 5.

The US has been great for me professionally and economically, but I think Canada is better in most ways (for me) except that all my friends are in the US. :(

I started a thread here with my experience if anyone is interested.

https://www.qesehmk.org/forums/showthread.php/2726-AMA-Canada-Express-Entry-PR-System

[rohanvus]

Congrats ! Great that you have a back-up all set for you

Btw , not all can get Canada PR via express entry route ,esp folks who have been here for more than a decade are already running into late 30's or early 40's .
W/O express entry(which requires score 450 upwards these days) or job offer its just impossible , so moving up north is another mirage for most of aged folks .

[iatiam]

There is not really anything I can say that can really help you and others with your hurt.

But I just wanted to say that America sure has a racist past as well as its fair share of racism even today. However America is not a racist country. I know today my words may not make much sense to you. But hopefully someday you will realize this.

Immigration policy used to be driven purely through economic and geopolitical objectives. The Trump folks have injected racism into it. But America will bounce back to sanity sooner or later.
So a Democratic senator blocked a common sense bill and openly mocked Indians but somehow this is Trump's fault becaus because you think he is a racist. Weird

[Greentothemoon]

Vedu,

Most of the points are very valid. I have different opinion about owning a house Vs Rental. I would rather pay mortgage than all time high rent. Rates are very low. At the end of the day you own hard asset (House) in the safe jurisdiction (USA). In worse case scenario, If, we have to leave the US we have two choices.
1. Put the house on the rent through management company (they usually charge 7%-10% of rent, remaining rent you will get in the bank every month) and pay the mortgage though rent. finally house will pay off by itself. when you return to US in the future you have it for yourself. OR
2. sell the house, easy now a days provided its not in remote or rural area . you can buy and sell house in US without physical presence in US. I have confirm this through my realtor when I bought the house.

Every year people are migrating to USA through family and employment GCs (just keep in mind) and housing is back up by Fed and US govt. Even though housing market will collapse like 2008 ,it will recovery sooner or later. we are due for another recession . I would prefer real assets over paper assets during recession time.
>We all get one life. Chasing green card dream is overwhelming and beyond our control. We could miss our present for future. We all came here to improve our quality of life and increase our financial situation.
>I can share my personal experience. I have been working with elderly population from last 11 years as PT. I have seen all kind of life scenario occurs during old age. I can tell you its not fun guys (With money or without money). I have worked with wealthiest clients as well. They all share one phrase with me, Do not get old :). Moral of the story is have some fun with family and friends during this prime years of life.
Once again, Thank you Vedu for valuable post, timing could not be better.
Cheers..!!!

[Greentothemoon]

To soon to call it dead. We still have time left in this congress. We all are very upset. I would resist to call whole USA racist becoz of 1 senator action. House passed the bill with major support of Ds. It is the working nature of US senate that gives power to each senator to hold such overwhelmingly supported bill. US senate is close club of 100 representatives and they uses UC as method to pass majority of bills. Why Modi should care for this bill. He has bigger fish to fry. He has to take care the interest of 1.2 billion our fellow Indians which includes trade deals, pak -kashmir issues and many more. He might loose leverage if he ask to pass our bill. I do not think Trump can even help in this case. Hold is by Ds. US congress is hugely divided right now.
It is always harder to remove something which is in place for long time. especially related to Govt and needs political will. Examples: H4EAD, DACA, per county cap or article 370 and 35A.
Cheers..!!

[Greentothemoon]

To soon to call it dead. We still have time left in this congress. We all are very upset. I would resist to call whole USA racist becoz of 1 senator action. House passed the bill with major support of Ds. It is the working nature of US senate that gives power to each senator to hold such overwhelmingly supported bill. US senate is close club of 100 representatives and they uses UC as method to pass majority of bills. Why Modi should care for this bill. He has bigger fish to fry. He has to take care the interest of 1.2 billion our fellow Indians which includes trade deals, pak -kashmir issues and many more. He might loose leverage if he ask to pass our bill. I do not think Trump can even help in this case. Hold is by Ds. US congress is hugely divided right now.
It is always harder to remove something which is in place for long time. especially related to Govt and needs political will. Examples: H4EAD, DACA, per county cap or article 370 and 35A.
Cheers..!!

[vedu]

Vedu,

Most of the points are very valid. I have different opinion about owning a house Vs Rental. I would rather pay mortgage than all time high rent. Rates are very low. At the end of the day you own hard asset (House) in the safe jurisdiction (USA). In worse case scenario, If, we have to leave the US we have two choices.
1. Put the house on the rent through management company (they usually charge 7%-10% of rent, remaining rent you will get in the bank every month) and pay the mortgage though rent. finally house will pay off by itself. when you return to US in the future you have it for yourself. OR
2. sell the house, easy now a days provided its not in remote or rural area . you can buy and sell house in US without physical presence in US. I have confirm this through my realtor when I bought the house.

Every year people are migrating to USA through family and employment GCs (just keep in mind) and housing is back up by Fed and US govt. Even though housing market will collapse like 2008 ,it will recovery sooner or later. we are due for another recession . I would prefer real assets over paper assets during recession time.
>We all get one life. Chasing green card dream is overwhelming and beyond our control. We could miss our present for future. We all came here to improve our quality of life and increase our financial situation.
>I can share my personal experience. I have been working with elderly population from last 11 years as PT. I have seen all kind of life scenario occurs during old age. I can tell you its not fun guys (With money or without money). I have worked with wealthiest clients as well. They all share one phrase with me, Do not get old :). Moral of the story is have some fun with family and friends during this prime years of life.
Once again, Thank you Vedu for valuable post, timing could not be better.
Cheers..!!!

Greentothemoon,

Thank you for sharing your thoughts. I appreciate yours and imdeng's point of view about owning vs renting. That's probably the most complex decision. Below are my thoughts on that subject:

1. In a perfectly efficient housing market, the laws of supply and demand dictate that economically renting should equate to owning. But the market is never perfectly efficient, and so, if you buy a moderate size house and live in it for a long time, you will probably come up a little ahead.

2. One never really owns the house outright even after paying the mortgage in full. One still needs to pay the rent in terms of property tax, HOA fee if applicable, maintenance, home insurance, etc., etc. These things are never going to go away and they constitute up to 3-4 months of renting. You also need to be a handyman and enjoy the chores like lawn mowing, snow removal, etc.

3. If you rent an apartment in a big apartment complex, you get the benefit of economies of scale and thus, comparatively lower rent. The rent also comes with maintenance, landscaping, and other services included. You get access to well-equipped gym and a swimming pool in the same rent amount without having to worry about maintenance of any of these facilities. That's well worth some paying some extra premium over owning a house outright. Now, if you want to rent and individual house, then that's a different story and can be more expensive.

4. When you rent, you can easily downsize, up-size as per your needs, relocate to different school districts if needed, etc.

5. The idea of owning a hard asset is more of a psychological. For example, if you own a stock of a public company, the underlying company also has hard assets such as buildings, other equipment, etc. that you own a share of. Just like how a house can be manged through a management company, the public companies that you own through their shares also have a management in place to take care of their assets, and they will send you the part of the profit via dividends. But there are certain advantages in owning stocks vs real estate. The management company of your real estate will send you the full rent income after taking their commission out because they cannot use that money to grow your asset, and then you are liable to pay income taxes on that income before reinvesting the money somewhere else. So, there are frictional costs involved. Whereas, in a public company, a good management reuses your share of income (the portion that is not paid to you in terms of dividends) to grow the company, and in essence, your money keeps compounding without paying intermediate taxes on an annual basis, and that makes a big difference in the long term.

6. Like you pointed out that housing market always recovers, so does the stock market. And if one knows how to value businesses conservatively, and have a good investment strategy in place (like the bogleheads philosophy mentioned by imdeng), it will help navigate through rough weather.

Don't get me wrong. Owning a house certainly has its own advantages, but most of them are psychological in nature. Very few will stand on pure economic rational. In the end, owning vs renting remains a difficult decision and to each his own!

[abcx13]

Congrats ! Great that you have a back-up all set for you

Btw , not all can get Canada PR via express entry route ,esp folks who have been here for more than a decade are already running into late 30's or early 40's .
W/O express entry(which requires score 450 upwards these days) or job offer its just impossible , so moving up north is another mirage for most of aged folks .

Yes, totally fair. I was just mentioning it in case there are younger folks on here for whom it might be an option. I only heard about it last year through a friend just by chance, even though I would have been eligible for Express Entry a couple of years before. I have mentioned it to friends of my age in similar situations in the US and most seem to prefer living here on H1Bs bhagwan bharose instead of putting in the very minimal effort for Express Entry, which I find kind of crazy especially now that there is no certainty of even getting H1Bs renewed.

[qesehmk]

So a Democratic senator blocked a common sense bill and openly mocked Indians but somehow this is Trump's fault becaus because you think he is a racist. Weird
I have been saying this for a very very long time. Indian backlogged folks are victims of economic and geopolitical forces that drive immigration policy. With trump "Race" has come into the equation.

Those who oppose the latest bill on economic or geopolitical objectives, you can argue with them and convince them about fairness in immigration. People like Dick Durban.

Trump and his supporters do not want ANY brown and black immigration. PERIOD. Thinking otherwise is naive.

[qesehmk]

Again best wishes and congrats on canadian PR.

Please do some research about travel to Canada and back. There are some horror stories about people losing their US GC altogether when holding canadian GC and applying for US GC at the same time. They may be exception. I am not very knowledgeable about this topic. But what I have read in the past shook me.

That's why I just want you to be careful and well educated on the topic and also please help others once you do your own DD.


Thanks. Yes, I live in the US and am still here. I would not have applied if not for the mess that the US is.

I first heard about Canadian Express Entry last May, applied by September since I was eligible, was approved in December, received the counterfoil at the end of January, and did my 'landing' in September which starts the clock to spend 2 years there out of the next 5.

The US has been great for me professionally and economically, but I think Canada is better in most ways (for me) except that all my friends are in the US. :(

I started a thread here with my experience if anyone is interested.

https://www.qesehmk.org/forums/showthread.php/2726-AMA-Canada-Express-Entry-PR-System

[ziggy2k]

Guys,

The system is what it is. You have to work within the limits of the current system and do what's best for you. I have listed a few things below that you can do to safeguard your future. Note that practicing the art of delayed gratification is big part of it.

Some of the above listed points may seem harsh and cold. But do you have any other alternative? As time passes, GC will become irrelevant. Waiting for GC when you have a million dollars in Bank is lot more fun than waiting for GC when you have only, say $25,000 in bank. Hope this helps!

You make some good points; but to me it sounds an awful lot like structuring an entire life around a permanent residency. Personally I do not think the permanent residency of any country is worth that much effort. The world's a big place.

Regarding renting vs buying: you make some fantastic points. We purchased a house recently after renting the same apartment for roughly a decade. It's quite a money sink compared to renting (e.g. the property taxes for a year == rent for a year). Fiscal issues aside it's been a unique experience so far. We also got to host our parents for ~4 months in the U.S., you could argue that we could have rented a home for a year and then back to an apartment but at this stage of our lives it seems like an enormous hassle.

I agree that we should work to change the system wherever possible.

[kb2013]

< >

[qesehmk]

Thread is open. Please post facts, analysis and balanced information and views.

Rational posts without passion serve backlog candidates much better.

[Politicalpawn]

It is CY Q3 2010, so I am not sure waiting till 2021 might make any difference, unless Dems win and prioritize CIR in their first few years. Yeah, we wont make a knee jerk reaction, as it is evident by 5+ H1B extensions. :). All I am saying is, I am fairly confident that I will do well career wise whether I am here or in India or in a different country. I have always worked in corporate setting, and while I fantasize about running a start up, I am not sure whether I will take that plunge. But, we will keep looking around and potentially jump if the opportunity is right. I know a lot of my ex-colleagues who are doing very well back there.

Frankly, with the whole GC thing, I am past the point of how I can use my GC to further my career etc. because technically, I can still go through the H1B route and still have a job. Two things that bother me are 1) The fact that in 2019, there are people in the congress who defend the per-country limits for EB visa. It obviously bothers me because I am impacted, but I feel this is a question of basic fairness and equality and one should not be fighting for decades for this change. 2) Anything can happen with jobs. For example, if there is a recession and there is a mass layoff, I dont want to be forced to leave the country in short notice, and all the pain that comes with that - a) older kids, b) older me making it harder to find jobs c) selling the house during a downturn etc, etc. On whether I will be at peace with myself, that will depend on how life after the change goes. If it doesnt go great, I am not mature enough (I know that) to accept that it was driven by my decision to move.

Lets hope common sense prevails and there is some change in law.

[this2shallpass]

I am not a fan of **. But you must understand they are the only ones who are doing something / anything. To be honest what they are doing is absolutely inconsequential. They should have focused on suing US government / USCIS for discrimination based on nationality.

Enough said ...

Couldn't agree more with you. Instead of taking a begging bowl to every representative, Only way to fight this battle is in the courts . No one ever got equality & fairness by requesting for it because there is always someone else on the other side who would have to give up something for things to be equal. Change is not easy. Our first and last resorts are the judicial system .

I do credit the organisation for their spirited fight, heck no one else even comes closer to what they have done . I just wish they channelize it in the right direction.

[@rvsuc]

I am in the same boat, My Son is in college and on H4, He will turn 21 next year. He can't work and he can't do any internship jobs on H4. As I know there is no OPT for BS. Only STEM Masters will give OPT to work. So looking at options. He is preparing to apply for MS.

I am not aware of I-140 EAD, Please update once you hear from your Attorney.

Spec, Q and other guru's - Please share if you have any additional information I-140 EAD and H4 age out dependent options.

Thank you.

If not passing S386, at least the Congress can provide a relief to GC backlogged community by passing a bill for "I-140 based EAD for the primary applicant and family members". This would specifically help the H4 children from college admission as well as aging-out related issues.

[iatiam]

Couldn't agree more with you. Instead of taking a begging bowl to every representative, Only way to fight this battle is in the courts . No one ever got equality & fairness by requesting for it because there is always someone else on the other side who would have to give up something for things to be equal. Change is not easy. Our first and last resorts are the judicial system .

I do credit the organisation for their spirited fight, heck no one else even comes closer to what they have done . I just wish they channelize it in the right direction.

Perhaps you should sue the government then

[TheLureoftheGreen]

Perhaps you should sue the government then

I sense sarcasm. Sue the government for what exactly? For exercising its sovereign right to decide its immigration policy? Besides, do we have any locus standi on immigration policy?

[iatiam]

I sense sarcasm. Sue the government for what exactly? For exercising its sovereign right to decide its immigration policy? Besides, do we have any locus standi on immigration policy?
Exactly, I don't like your laws so I will see you in court. Lol I genuinely want to see a bunch of Indians spend their money to do this and then lose in court. Perhaps it will stop this idiotic conversation once and for all.

Iatiam

[qesehmk]

In this country you can sue government. US has anti discrimination laws that are being violated in case of backlogged candidates. Those who have thin skin and thick skull need not sue anybody. I am preaching to those who may have courage and desire to do something different. The worst case result will be that the lawsuit will be thrown out..... but even then the national press will take note and it will help build public opinion for the backlogged candidates - if you play it well.

[smuggymba]

Exactly, I don't like your laws so I will see you in court. Lol I genuinely want to see a bunch of Indians spend their money to do this and then lose in court. Perhaps it will stop this idiotic conversation once and for all.

Iatiam

I would love to be part of this lawsuit - both financially (where desis throw in the towel) and also contribution wise.

Worse case the lawsuit is thrown out and we're out of 500-1000 bucks each, no big deal. Man ki shanti (Peace of mind) is important.

So, assuming this will cost 100K so hire a top firm, we need 100-200 individuals to be part of it. Is there any precedent of challenging an existing rule/law in court and winning. Anyway, IMO, it is still worth a shot. Even if we lose, it brings awareness. Especially ppl who have a PD in 2014-2015 and who are actually looking at 30-50 year wait, should have some case/merit.

[GCGCGCGC]

I would love to be part of this lawsuit - both financially (where desis throw in the towel) and also contribution wise.

Worse case the lawsuit is thrown out and we're out of 500-1000 bucks each, no big deal. Man ki shanti (Peace of mind) is important.

So, assuming this will cost 100K so hire a top firm, we need 100-200 individuals to be part of it. Is there any precedent of challenging an existing rule/law in court and winning. Anyway, IMO, it is still worth a shot. Even if we lose, it brings awareness. Especially ppl who have a PD in 2014-2015 and who are actually looking at 30-50 year wait, should have some case/merit.

As Q said all backlogged should approach court, we may loose but definitely it will bring awareness.

[smuggymba]

As Q said all backlogged should approach court, we may loose but definitely it will bring awareness.

Parents in backlog who have their kids aging out have a strong footing and they should consider spending 1K each to be part of a group for this lawsuit.

We however need to do some homework about which lawfirm/precedents etc. We just don't want to hand out money in hopes of winning. so please chime in on your thoughts.

[ziggy2k]

I would love to be part of this lawsuit - both financially (where desis throw in the towel) and also contribution wise.


An observation (reg. the willingness of individuals in the Indian community to contribute financially) -- this year the issuance of H4 EADs for several people were delayed, and several individuals paid around $1K each to be part of a lawsuit against USCIS; this actually did seem to expedite the H4 EAD cases of all individuals participating in the lawsuit.

Regarding the possibility of winning/losing a lawsuit - if the DACA recipients have a case, then the backlogged community which is in compliance with laws should have an even stronger case in my opinion.

[ziggy2k]

On a separate note - a detail that I'm probably overanalyzing: I watched the CIS interview with Ken Cucinelli in which he was asked about the backlogged individuals from India.

He mentions that (paraphrasing) he is aware of the problem, and that there were multiple ways to address the problem, and then also mentions that he questions if this is a problem in the first place. That remark came across as cryptic to me--why would he think this isn't a problem? It didn't come across as a typical anti-immigrant comment to me (i.e. did he see something in the data available to him etc.?), but maybe I'm reading too much into it.

[smuggymba]

On a separate note - a detail that I'm probably overanalyzing: I watched the CIS interview with Ken Cucinelli in which he was asked about the backlogged individuals from India.

He mentions that (paraphrasing) he is aware of the problem, and that there were multiple ways to address the problem, and then also mentions that he questions if this is a problem in the first place. That remark came across as cryptic to me--why would he think this isn't a problem? It didn't come across as a typical anti-immigrant comment to me (i.e. did he see something in the data available to him etc.?), but maybe I'm reading too much into it.

Jessica Vaughn from CIS had an article where she says -

“I think it’s a bad idea to scrap the per-country caps, at least independently of a major overhaul of the entire system,” said Jessica Vaughan, director of policy studies for CIS. “It will reward this dysfunctional employment visa system, but also cut off the opportunity for green cards to people from the rest of the world, who tend to be more uniquely qualified than the folks who are waiting after having been contract H-1B workers.”

Per John Miano - "The green card backlog problem is overblown. It only affects a few countries that supply large numbers of H-1B workers."

CIS/Breitbart are immigrant haters and their so called "analysis" shows it clearly.

[rocketfast]

IMO, country cap elimination gets increasingly harder every year. Each year India is adding ~50,000 PERMs creating a ~100,000 demand. It is unsustainable. In another 5 years, there will be a backlog similar to current DACA recipients. There will be always some senator that will balk at those numbers.

H1B IT workers also earn higher pay than other professionals. So the people that don't like Indians can't even introduce a salary cap as that will only benefit more experienced Indians that are in the backlog longer. Their best hope is we will self-deport or add points that hurt older workers. But they don't realize that all of us that did graduate studies here have American born kids. So we have a backstop to come back to the USA.

The Supreme court is going to make a decision on DACA next year. A small window could open up again. But last time Senate tried to pass a DACA legislation, we were not part of the discussion at all (except via now retired Senator Flake and Senator Hatch).

[TheLureoftheGreen]

In this country you can sue government. US has anti discrimination laws that are being violated in case of backlogged candidates. Those who have thin skin and thick skull need not sue anybody. I am preaching to those who may have courage and desire to do something different. The worst case result will be that the lawsuit will be thrown out..... but even then the national press will take note and it will help build public opinion for the backlogged candidates - if you play it well.

Q - What in my response deserved such a strong outburst? Separately, do we know of any legal scholar who has opined on this? That there is indeed a case to be made based on constitutional rights? US has had some vein of per country limits since time immemorial. First, it was to ensure not too many Africans or southern and eastern Europeans could come, then it was the Chinese. Racial engineering appears to have been the norm in the evolution of immigration laws in this country. For whatever reason, none of this appears to have been challenged in the courts for bias in immigration policy. Which is why I still ask, do we have a locus standi on immigration policy? I am not convinced.

[qesehmk]

Hello Lure, I am sorry I was not really thinking of you at all. You seem to be new to the blog. Welcome.

As per legal opinion, I do not know eitherway. People will say that USCIS is already following laws on the books. But my argument is if certain laws result in discrimination and thus violate other laws then supreme court can and should intervene and nullify those provisions (viz. country caps) that result in discrimination.

I do agree with others that this will need at least a year of preparation and IMHO will require not one lawyer but a team of 4-5 lawyers.

One more thing - these lawyers need to be ones that are not just expert but fundamentally see how unjust the situation is.

Q - What in my response deserved such a strong outburst? Separately, do we know of any legal scholar who has opined on this? That there is indeed a case to be made based on constitutional rights? US has had some vein of per country limits since time immemorial. First, it was to ensure not too many Africans or southern and eastern Europeans could come, then it was the Chinese. Racial engineering appears to have been the norm in the evolution of immigration laws in this country. For whatever reason, none of this appears to have been challenged in the courts for bias in immigration policy. Which is why I still ask, do we have a locus standi on immigration policy? I am not convinced.

[TheLureoftheGreen]

Hello Lure, I am sorry I was not really thinking of you at all. You seem to be new to the blog. Welcome.

As per legal opinion, I do not know eitherway. People will say that USCIS is already following laws on the books. But my argument is if certain laws result in discrimination and thus violate other laws then supreme court can and should intervene and nullify those provisions (viz. country caps) that result in discrimination.

I do agree with others that this will need at least a year of preparation and IMHO will require not one lawyer but a team of 4-5 lawyers.

One more thing - these lawyers need to be ones that are not just expert but fundamentally see how unjust the situation is.

Thank you! And yes, I am new to the forum, and this is a gem of a site you run!

I suppose, as you said, we'll need a team, and that the crux of the issue probably needs to be that the law is unjust and capricious. Thanks for getting back.

[iatiam]

I would love to be part of this lawsuit - both financially (where desis throw in the towel) and also contribution wise.

Worse case the lawsuit is thrown out and we're out of 500-1000 bucks each, no big deal. Man ki shanti (Peace of mind) is important.

So, assuming this will cost 100K so hire a top firm, we need 100-200 individuals to be part of it. Is there any precedent of challenging an existing rule/law in court and winning. Anyway, IMO, it is still worth a shot. Even if we lose, it brings awareness. Especially ppl who have a PD in 2014-2015 and who are actually looking at 30-50 year wait, should have some case/merit.

So are you planning to start this initiative? You can post it in other immigration forums too and gain some momentum.

Iatiam

[GCGCGCGC]

Parents in backlog who have their kids aging out have a strong footing and they should consider spending 1K each to be part of a group for this lawsuit.

We however need to do some homework about which lawfirm/precedents etc. We just don't want to hand out money in hopes of winning. so please chime in on your thoughts.

Completely agree with you, Most of us can easily spend 1K for this cause.

[greenzone]

I would love to be part of this lawsuit - both financially (where desis throw in the towel) and also contribution wise.

Worse case the lawsuit is thrown out and we're out of 500-1000 bucks each, no big deal. Man ki shanti (Peace of mind) is important.

So, assuming this will cost 100K so hire a top firm, we need 100-200 individuals to be part of it. Is there any precedent of challenging an existing rule/law in court and winning. Anyway, IMO, it is still worth a shot. Even if we lose, it brings awareness. Especially ppl who have a PD in 2014-2015 and who are actually looking at 30-50 year wait, should have some case/merit.

I would love to part of this too. I think getting funds around 100k shouldn't be a problem as long as we work on initial case analysis and present it to backlogged folks. Initiation and finding team of lawyers to get an opinion on the possibility of filing a case is big challenge.
This is an interesting read. There are some cases challenging constitution - https://www.cnn.com/2013/06/21/us/top-u-s-supreme-court-decisions-fast-facts/index.html

[need4speed]

This may be the nostrum we have been waiting for. I will be happy to contribute. Sounds like this hasn't been done, lets fund a team of lawyers and be cognizant about these possibilities.

[ak_bala]

I would like to be part of this, and will ask other friends to join.

[Raj0687]

Jessica Vaughn from CIS had an article where she says -

“I think it’s a bad idea to scrap the per-country caps, at least independently of a major overhaul of the entire system,” said Jessica Vaughan, director of policy studies for CIS. “It will reward this dysfunctional employment visa system, but also cut off the opportunity for green cards to people from the rest of the world, who tend to be more uniquely qualified than the folks who are waiting after having been contract H-1B workers.”

Per John Miano - "The green card backlog problem is overblown. It only affects a few countries that supply large numbers of H-1B workers."

CIS/Breitbart are immigrant haters and their so called "analysis" shows it clearly.

The way I look at this is little different, Ithink the H1B demand per population is same across the board.

For populous countries H1B demand is aggravating year by yeardue to the gc backlog, whereas workers from small countries doesn't need H1B ordoesn't need as many H1B renewals as worker from big country. For example,ROW students get GC with in their OPT period, so they don't need H1B, but allthe student from big countries must applying for H1B, that constitutes a of lotdemand.

I have seen many ROW students whose H1B is denied, but GC isapproved. It’s that easy for them to work here. S386 is the best bill, totighten the H1B rules, so everybody must apply & work on H1B and wait fairand equal amount of time to get GC.

People like CIS, breitbart don’t understand the root issue,but criticize the whole H1B program, because of some idiots misusing .

[Politicalpawn]

Gotta pile onto DACA lawsuit and argue whatever the outcome for DACA kids should be applicable for DALCA kids. Otherwise it is discrimination etc. etc.

[@rvsuc]

While evaluating the legal options to fight back against the challenges created by country-cap rule, we should aim to get I-140 EAD for principal and family members. It'll allow job portability, relief from H1 visa extension/stamping, and help H4 children to overcome the aging-out limitations. In the case of losing a protracted case against USCIS, we shouldn't end up back to square one again. Thus, I-140 EAD would certainly be a better solution for us, if not the one that we are all looking for.

[abcx13]

@Eaglenow - have you or IV considered reaching out to Indian origin CEOs and appealing to them in their personal capacity to rally support for this bill? Salesforce was able to get Indiana to drop its opposition to LGBT rights. Maybe if you got big time Indian CEOs like Sundar Pichai (Google), Satya Nadella (Microsoft), Shantanu Narayen (Adobe), Ajay Banga (Mastercard) involved, it might make a difference? Just a thought given Tim Cook's tweet and the fact that all the tech companies have historically been supportive of the bill. I think IV might need to align itself with heavier-hitters, whether it be tech companies, fwd.us, or heck, even the Koch brothers or someone else like that...

[GhostWriter]

I just meant that across nations and particularly US/UK protectionist policies are increasing. Both for outsourcing and immigration. Trade wars, check on immigration, Make in America, Brexit etc. The new narrative being embraced is that unchecked globalization (both outsourcing and immigration) has come at the expense of local people and industries. The fear of automation through AI is further compounding these concerns. Add to it the global slowdown and fear of US recession in next 1-2 years. One may agree or disagree about how true each of these things is but these concerns are going to drive political choices for a while imo. DoesnÂ’t matter who is in the white house. Earlier globalization used to be a Republican agenda and Trump won on the exact opposite agenda.

One would think that reducing outsourcing should call for more immigration but that does not seem to be the direction either.

There is no appetite for increase in immigration levels. Add to it the chaos in congress, what major bill or issue has been tackled in last 8-10 years - none, doesnÂ’t matter if its Dems or Republicans running the show. With that context it is a miracle that S386 has reached so close to the finish line.

Do you see it differently ? You always have very informed views with respect to bills and politics so would be interesting to know your thoughts.



To Ghostwriter

What do you imply by globalization reversal and the association with green card numbers?

[FarAwayfromGC]

@abcx13

I don't think any Indian Origin (PIO) CEOs will support other Indians, my personal opinion is either they are ignorant of their Country of Origin or they don't want to recognize themselves as Indians or they shy away form supporting a cause with no media coverage. BTW , the current situation helps them make more profit. But, there is no harm in trying. If Anyone can help with a list of PIO CEOs, I am ready to contact their media reps (old school tricks) and let you know (if anyone responds).

If it helps let it help.

[abcx13]

@abcx13

I don't think any Indian Origin (PIO) CEOs will support other Indians, my personal opinion is either they are ignorant of their Country of Origin or they don't want to recognize themselves as Indians or they shy away form supporting a cause with no media coverage. BTW , the current situation helps them make more profit. But, there is no harm in trying. If Anyone can help with a list of PIO CEOs, I am ready to contact their media reps (old school tricks) and let you know (if anyone responds).

If it helps let it help.

I think you are right that they often don't want to be recognized as Indians except when it suits them, but figured it might help. I don't know... don't have many great ideas. It's a depressing situation.

Anyway, this is the list I have:

Sundar Pichai (Google)
Satya Nadella (Microsoft)
Shantanu Narayen (Adobe)
Ajay Banga (Mastercard)
Aneel Bhusri (Workday)
Nikesh Arora (Palo Alto Networks, ex Google)
Ajit Jain (Berkshire Hathway)
Sanjay Jha (Global Foundries)
Vinod Khosla (Khosla Ventures, ex Sun)
Thomas Kurian (Google Cloud, ex Oracle)
Dinesh Paliwal (Harman International)
Sanjay Mehrotra (Sandisk)
Ram Shriram (Sherpalo Ventures)

Non-business luminaries who might be helpful:
Abhijit Banerjee (Nobel Laureate in Economics)
Nitin Nohria (Dean of HBS)

Ex business people:
Vikram Pandit (ex Citi)
Indra Nooyi (ex Pepsi)
Kanwal Rekhi (TiE Co-founder)

I used this list (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Indian_Americans) for ideas.

Edit: The list of successful Indian Americans is pretty darn impressive, and yet we are stuck in this stupid effing backlog.

[NJMavarick]

This from Charles Kuck

"It now appears likely that #S386 will be coming up for a vote on the Senate floor sometime tomorrow. This is NOT a UC vote. It is straight-up 60% vote, so if you think #NoS386 is the best outcome, you should be calling your Senator at 202-224-3121 today to oppose this bill."
4 mins ago

Maybe some light at the end of the tunnel.

I wonder, why would Charles be fearmongering! We all know the status of the bill as it stands today unless he thinks that the chances are increasing of this bill passing....

[FarAwayfromGC]

I think you are right that they often don't want to be recognized as Indians except when it suits them, but figured it might help. I don't know... don't have many great ideas. It's a depressing situation.

Anyway, this is the list I have:

Sundar Pichai (Google)
Satya Nadella (Microsoft)
Shantanu Narayen (Adobe)
Ajay Banga (Mastercard)
Aneel Bhusri (Workday)
Nikesh Arora (Palo Alto Networks, ex Google)
Ajit Jain (Berkshire Hathway)
Sanjay Jha (Global Foundries)
Vinod Khosla (Khosla Ventures, ex Sun)
Thomas Kurian (Google Cloud, ex Oracle)
Dinesh Paliwal (Harman International)
Sanjay Mehrotra (Sandisk)
Ram Shriram (Sherpalo Ventures)

Non-business luminaries who might be helpful:
Abhijit Banerjee (Nobel Laureate in Economics)
Nitin Nohria (Dean of HBS)

Ex business people:
Vikram Pandit (ex Citi)
Indra Nooyi (ex Pepsi)
Kanwal Rekhi (TiE Co-founder)

I used this list (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Indian_Americans) for ideas.

Edit: The list of successful Indian Americans is pretty darn impressive, and yet we are stuck in this stupid effing backlog.

@abcx13

Great !! Thanks for the list , let us see who all we can reach out to.

Q ,

Your comments or your suggestions will be helpful.

[gs1968]

I don't know what to say. Even though his viewpoint has shifted over the summer I still felt he was credible. Sometimes people can get carried away by listening to troll accounts in their echo chamber and be removed from reality. We will see

[qesehmk]

@abcx13

Great !! Thanks for the list , let us see who all we can reach out to.

Q ,

Your comments or your suggestions will be helpful.
Doesn't hurt to try at all - but their interests cut the interests of the backlogged folks. It is in Microsoft and Facebook's interest to have an immovable workforce. Ask most desi folks how much their salaries have increased post GC .... now the truth is most won't share ... but I will not be surprised to see 50-100 and even 300% hikes.

So that's what we are talking about. Somebody like Pichai will make a super show of empathy towards fellow desis. But the reality is he - just like all other succesful people - is a super focused person on his own career and well being. His interest is perfectly aligned with Google's interest.

So the question is how do you guys talk to Pichai and tell him how it is in google's interest that 1000s of their desi employees get out of the GC mess.

If you are realistic in what to expect from these people then it will help you better prepare for getting in front and making a case.

[abcx13]

Doesn't hurt to try at all - but their interests cut the interests of the backlogged folks. It is in Microsoft and Facebook's interest to have an immovable workforce. Ask most desi folks how much their salaries have increased post GC .... now the truth is most won't share ... but I will not be surprised to see 50-100 and even 300% hikes.

So that's what we are talking about. Somebody like Pichai will make a super show of empathy towards fellow desis. But the reality is he - just like all other succesful people - is a super focused person on his own career and well being. His interest is perfectly aligned with Google's interest.

So the question is how do you guys talk to Pichai and tell him how it is in google's interest that 1000s of their desi employees get out of the GC mess.

If you are realistic in what to expect from these people then it will help you better prepare for getting in front and making a case.

All the big tech companies have consistenly supported removal of country caps, even though you are obviously correct that it is cynically not in their best interest. The bigger issue for them than supressing wages is being able to reliably get employees, which has completely broken down under Trump and all the H1B RFEs. Meanwhile, there was an article in the WSJ about how B-School applications from international students are down - so the talent pool is not going to be what it once was. So you are correct in the short-term that higher wages for H1B holders becoming GC holders will hurt them, but in the long run, it gives them better talent, which they obviously want. I think they get the benfits of immigration. Maybe I'm being naive, but I think the big tech companies are a lot less cynical about H1B slaves than the WITCH companies.

And remember, we don't need all of them. We need a few of them to see our point of view and have empathy. And then maybe convince others and get the ball rolling. Hearts and minds ar

Anyway, FarAwayFromGC or EagleNow or Q, whoever wants to collaborate on a letter to these people, I am able and willing to assist. Please PM me if interested.

[mcmilers]

If Tim Cook is keeping his eyes on immigration issues and is willing to make a statement on twitter, I am sure other big CEOs can find some interest and time to do the same. As Q mentioned how can we get their attention and make this issue something they can get behind.
I work for a big company with a ton of immigrants and a very well known CEO. I can write him an email to see if he would be interested in listening to my story.

[gs1968]

Just heard Sen.McConnell's concluding remarks and the only vote for tomorrow is under executive session to consider the nomination of Justin Walker for judge from Kentucky. There are no other votes scheduled and this seems to coincide with the twitter feed of Senate cloakroom.Sen.Kevin Cramer was in the chair with a mischievous smile and for a moment I was hopeful but not to be at least today

[FarAwayfromGC]

Doesn't hurt to try at all - but their interests cut the interests of the backlogged folks. It is in Microsoft and Facebook's interest to have an immovable workforce. Ask most desi folks how much their salaries have increased post GC .... now the truth is most won't share ... but I will not be surprised to see 50-100 and even 300% hikes.

So that's what we are talking about. Somebody like Pichai will make a super show of empathy towards fellow desis. But the reality is he - just like all other succesful people - is a super focused person on his own career and well being. His interest is perfectly aligned with Google's interest.

So the question is how do you guys talk to Pichai and tell him how it is in google's interest that 1000s of their desi employees get out of the GC mess.

If you are realistic in what to expect from these people then it will help you better prepare for getting in front and making a case.

Q,

Thanks for your thoughts, I agree that we need a good answer to the question "how do you guys talk to Pichai and tell him how it is in google's interest that 1000s of their desi employees get out of the GC mess?". This is important and we need to make a good case with facts to show how clearing backlog would help all including their Flag ships - when we try we should do it right q

To start with , do you suggest we work with a media expert or do you think we can do it ourselves by collecting stories from backloggers and ?write a simple letter/twitter message or other social media message asking their opinion ?
mcmillers has a good point to write to his CEO and ask for opinion .

abcx13 and EagleNow please pitch in with your comments.

[singax]

Q,

Thanks for your thoughts, I agree that we need a good answer to the question "how do you guys talk to Pichai and tell him how it is in google's interest that 1000s of their desi employees get out of the GC mess?". This is important and we need to make a good case with facts to show how clearing backlog would help all including their Flag ships - when we try we should do it right q

To start with , do you suggest we work with a media expert or do you think we can do it ourselves by collecting stories from backloggers and ?write a simple letter/twitter message or other social media message asking their opinion ?
mcmillers has a good point to write to his CEO and ask for opinion .

abcx13 and EagleNow please pitch in with your comments.

My company organized Webinar with immigration attorney, they touched upon S386. As per attorney, bill had good chance to pass couple of weeks back but it's dead due to election cycle and "buy American and Hire American" sentiments, no politicians wants to back their constituency and ask for vote that we made immigration process earlier.

[iatiam]

Q,

Thanks for your thoughts, I agree that we need a good answer to the question "how do you guys talk to Pichai and tell him how it is in google's interest that 1000s of their desi employees get out of the GC mess?". This is important and we need to make a good case with facts to show how clearing backlog would help all including their Flag ships - when we try we should do it right q

To start with , do you suggest we work with a media expert or do you think we can do it ourselves by collecting stories from backloggers and ?write a simple letter/twitter message or other social media message asking their opinion ?
mcmillers has a good point to write to his CEO and ask for opinion .

abcx13 and EagleNow please pitch in with your comments.

What about the suing the federal government idea?

[GCdreamz]

What about the suing the federal government idea?

Good Idea.

Also, I am suspicious on how Demand drastically increased in last week of May 2019 which prevented spillover. If we research and find the companies which caused the Spike we might find them exploiting the system. The spike in ROW esp Philippines and S.Korea in recent years is cause of no spill Over.

[iatiam]

Good Idea.

Also, I am suspicious on how Demand drastically increased in last week of May 2019 which prevented spillover. If we research and find the companies which caused the Spike we might find them exploiting the system. The spike in ROW esp Philippines and S.Korea in recent years is cause of no spill Over.

I don't think there is any thing sinister in the demand increase. Economy is doing very well and more people are filing for GCs. Like permanent residency, spillover is not a right, it's a privilege.

[gs1968]

Copy of the letter sent by Judiciary Democrats

Dear Chairman Cornyn:

We respectfully request that the Subcommittee on Border Security and Immigration hold a hearing on legislation to address green-card backlogs.

One of the most serious problems in our immigration system is that prospective immigrants are stuck in green-card backlogs for many years. These backlogs harm our economy and are a hardship on families who are caught in immigration limbo.

A hearing before the Subcommittee on Border Security and Immigration to receive testimony from experts and impacted communities will help the Senate advance bipartisan legislation that meaningfully and thoughtfully addresses green-card backlogs. We therefore request that the Subcommittee hold a hearing on relevant pending legislation, including, S. 386, the Fairness for High-Skilled Immigrants Act; S. 2091, the Backlog Elimination, Legal Immigration, and Employment Visa Enhancement (BELIEVE) Act; and S. 2603, the Resolving Extended Limbo for Immigrant Employees and Families (RELIEF) Act.

Thank you for your time and consideration. We look forward to your response.

Sincerely,

cc: The Honorable Lindsey Graham, Chairman, Senate Judiciary Committee

[mcmilers]

I honestly dont know but it sounds like good news. Immigration backlog is getting noticed and gaining some traction to get to a amicable solution.

[bloddy1]

Just a quick Senate Floor Update for people who missed it

The Relief ACT now has 5 co-sponsors all Democrat. Hopefully a compromise will come soon

The discussion in Congress is definitely long time overdue because the process is not just broken but unfavorable to US itself. However, the Relief ACT is bogus and pretty much a poison pill because of TWO things;

1. The political atmosphere is vicious enough that forget about passage, it will not be even introduced because you are proposing doubling the number of GCs
2. Secondly, doubling GC numbers if applied across EB/FB all over world with the same quota system results in what - EB2/3-I moving at the clip of 2-3 days per month instead of 1-day? You can may be count spill over and all that squat helping to large extent but this is all fake news/drama.

Sen.386 is your best and final chance because White House will shoot down anything that increase the legal flow and rightfully so. https://www.foxbusiness.com/politics/stephen-miller-h-1b-visa-bill-immigration-senate

While we all admire congress bringing front and center the issue itself, its smoke and mirror show that a magician puts to awe the audience to make it seem like its raining money but each of us know the end result is just a sleight of hand for the magician to sell the show not make it rain for our benefit.

[mcmilers]

https://twitter.com/immivoice/status/1189713833201459201?s=21

[Raj0687]

The discussion in Congress is definitely long time overdue because the process is not just broken but unfavorable to US itself. However, the Relief ACT is bogus and pretty much a poison pill because of TWO things;

1. The political atmosphere is vicious enough that forget about passage, it will not be even introduced because you are proposing doubling the number of GCs
2. Secondly, doubling GC numbers if applied across EB/FB all over world with the same quota system results in what - EB2/3-I moving at the clip of 2-3 days per month instead of 1-day? You can may be count spill over and all that squat helping to large extent but this is all fake news/drama.

Sen.386 is your best and final chance because White House will shoot down anything that increase the legal flow and rightfully so. https://www.foxbusiness.com/politics/stephen-miller-h-1b-visa-bill-immigration-senate

While we all admire congress bringing front and center the issue itself, its smoke and mirror show that a magician puts to awe the audience to make it seem like its raining money but each of us know the end result is just a sleight of hand for the magician to sell the show not make it rain for our benefit.

Relief Act, 1. bumping up the over all green cards per year 2. lifting the country quota.

like everybody said, this bill has no chance of becoming law.

[FarAwayfromGC]

Relief Act, 1. bumping up the over all green cards per year 2. lifting the country quota.

like everybody said, this bill has no chance of becoming law.

If you are optimistic , you will say by increasing the number GC's and keeping the same % allocation doesn't make significant change in backlogs but, over a period of time it will certainly ease the pressure. We should hope the senators will combine S386 and Relief Act to make a compromise that will please at least 60 of their partners in crime.

But, personally I have very little trust on Dick the Drama master - In my opinion , he is just trying to gain mileage out of misery.

[GCdreamz]

I don't think there is any thing sinister in the demand increase. Economy is doing very well and more people are filing for GCs. Like permanent residency, spillover is not a right, it's a privilege.

Dear iatiam,

Yes, Economy is doing very well and leading to more hiring. However, looking at below links, I am surprised and would like to know which category GCs or PERMs are issued for Jobs with Avg Salary of $20K. Maybe we can highlight this in Social media.

https://www.myvisajobs.com/South-Korea-PERM17CT.htm
https://www.myvisajobs.com/Vietnam-PERM17CT.htm

Also, in the 2nd link, sister companies with name "MUY" applied for most GCs this is for YUM brands....

Can anyone help in identifying GC Category the South Korean applicants with Salary ~ $20K used??

[amarrecherla]

Dear iatiam,

Yes, Economy is doing very well and leading to more hiring. However, looking at below links, I am surprised and would like to know which category GCs or PERMs are issued for Jobs with Avg Salary of $20K. Maybe we can highlight this in Social media.

https://www.myvisajobs.com/South-Korea-PERM17CT.htm
https://www.myvisajobs.com/Vietnam-PERM17CT.htm

Also, in the 2nd link, sister companies with name "MUY" applied for most GCs this is for YUM brands....

Can anyone help in identifying GC Category the South Korean applicants with Salary ~ $20K used??

Never thought this is even possible.
This is even more interesting: https://www.myvisajobs.com/Visa-Sponsor/Cleaners-America/115954.htm

[abcx13]

Never thought this is even possible.
This is even more interesting: https://www.myvisajobs.com/Visa-Sponsor/Cleaners-America/115954.htm

It's even worse. Look at Vietnam and South Korea statistics:

https://www.myvisajobs.com/Vietnam-PERM19CT.htm
https://www.myvisajobs.com/South-Korea-PERM19CT.htm

Mostly low wage farm workers.

And here are all 2019 GC certifications sorted in ascending order by salary with a cumulative total.

https://i.ibb.co/7vgR5Qp/Untitled.png (https://ibb.co/4WsYG2S)

[NJMavarick]

Got this message forwarded to me..
���� *Action Item* ����

If you have an H4 Kid aging or aged out, please join the lawsuit as a plaintiff. Follow the link for more information. It’s initiated by the goodwill of Mr. Brent Renison. (Twitter handle: *@BrentRenison*). Pass the message around and don’t hold it for yourself.

www.entrylaw.com/backlogcspalawsuit

Well, time will tell if this is going to be similar to the one that Greg Siskind had filed during the visagate! I know Q has been suggesting a lawsuit..maybe this is it!

[GCdreamz]

It's even worse. Look at Vietnam and South Korea statistics:

https://www.myvisajobs.com/Vietnam-PERM19CT.htm
https://www.myvisajobs.com/South-Korea-PERM19CT.htm

Mostly low wage farm workers.

And here are all 2019 GC certifications sorted in ascending order by salary with a cumulative total.

https://i.ibb.co/7vgR5Qp/Untitled.png (https://ibb.co/4WsYG2S)


We should bring this to notice of immigration hardliners...

[srimurthy]

We should bring this to notice of immigration hardliners...

Also included in the Agenda:
I-485 application: USCIS intends to eliminate"concurrent filing" of immigrant petition and I-485application

[iatiam]

Also included in the Agenda:
I-485 application: USCIS intends to eliminate"concurrent filing" of immigrant petition and I-485application

Does it have to go through rule making or is it one of those memos they send out and it becomes rule.

Iatiam

[srimurthy]

Does it have to go through rule making or is it one of those memos they send out and it becomes rule.

Iatiam

My understanding is this is a proposed rule. It was also in the agenda in Fall 2006 and Spring 2008 and may be other times too and may not have moved forward.
If I read the rule, it says, restrict concurrent filing and your I-140 needs to be approved and then dates are current to file for Adjustment of Status. So if approved will have little impact for any backlogged countries, but others we may see added timelines.

[Raj0687]

Until 2017/18 concurrent filing in EB1-C is the best card, used to get saved from the L1-A denials. Back then(even now) I-140, I-485 approval used to be easier than getting L1 extension.

Now that the EB1-I is retrogressed and it can never be current again, So this rule is mere waste under the current circumstance.

But who know USCIS can proceed with the rule making process for fun ( this can be a good fun academic project). This another "EAD for approved I-140 rule".

[iatiam]

Until 2017/18 concurrent filing in EB1-C is the best card, used to get saved from the L1-A denials. Back then(even now) I-140, I-485 approval used to be easier than getting L1 extension.

Now that the EB1-I is retrogressed and it can never be current again, So this rule is mere waste under the current circumstance.

But who know USCIS can proceed with the rule making process for fun ( this can be a good fun academic project). This another "EAD for approved I-140 rule".

Unless of course this restricts demand and thus increases SO. May be this is wishful thinking.

Iatiam

[idliman]

Unless of course this restricts demand and thus increases SO. May be this is wishful thinking.
Iatiam
I don't think anything is happening in the VB movements anytime soon or in the legislation phase. So, OK. Friday afternoon rant. If supreme court disallows DACA (i.e, the Supreme Court concludes that courts may not review the Trump administration’s decision to terminate DACA), what's going to happen for the election results?

Are the democrats going to be more energized and turn out the vote from a lot of Hispanics or
the core republican voters will be more energized and turn up for DT?

My feeling is that this was a Deferred Action taken via an administrative action and any admin has the power to take another administrative action. I don't know if I will feel the same if I was directly affected. I pray for those DACA kids though for going through this for no fault of their own.

On the legislative front: I am assuming that as immigration is a no-win for both R's and D's, they will just posture and nothing will happen till the next admin (R's or D's) takes charge in 2020.

This is like predicting the stock market. No one can accurately predict it. Anyway put your rants here.

[idliman]

Also NILC is predicting that the judgement will come out as late as June 2020. If that is the case DACA / immigration will become an election issue. On the other hand if DACA ruling come out in Jan2020, then this issue will disappear from limelight for elections.

[mcmilers]

Basically EAD for all. you can change Jobs but has to be in the same field (like AC21).
Not exactly like a green card, does our time on this "temp status" counts towards getting a citizenship?
just some additional protections.

I take it back... I think the first point removes per country limits? except 5.75% reservation for ROW? Am I reading it right?

[idliman]

Does the above mean we can file 485 if the I-140 has been approved and the dates did not become current. So the AoS and AP are available with EADs to all after 270 days?
I guess we need the actual text to confirm. However, this is an Yes, according to Neil Munro article in Brietbart,

But the bill also creates a new legal status where imported workers could get a renewable work permit once their employers help to file an I-140 request for green cards. This change would effectively give Indians and other visa workers all of the workplace benefits of U.S. citizenship while they wait years for their green cards.

[kash80]

Found an interesting read countering S386 by an user lobbying in a forum.

The argument is people without current skills will lose (with a spin). Isn't it the whole point of free market economy. Definitely there are some scared people with GCs or Citizenship afraid of the consequences of S386. However, for a non-immigrant waiting for a Green Card and worried of his kids aging out, anything to improve the situation is good. For them it is basic necessity. However, some people (like the user quoted above) with GCs/Citizenship are afraid that their dessert pudding is being taken away.

idliman...this is not against what you commented on, but on the original poster of that comment.
Poking holes in the first few lines...why is employer deliberately looking to replace a H1 with another H1, indentured servitude? If there is truly more jobs available than people to fill it, then let the market decide the value of the people, not this artificial way of ensuring slavery and keeping salaries high.

[EB22010Dec]

Did you guys hear any rumours around floor vote for 386?

[abcx13]

Did you guys hear any rumours around floor vote for 386?

No. Did you?

[idliman]

WASHINGTON, Jan 27 (Reuters) - The U.S. Supreme Court gave the go-ahead on Monday for one of President Donald Trump’s hardline immigration policies, allowing his administration to implement a rule denying legal permanent residency to certain immigrants deemed likely to require government assistance in the future.

The justices, on a 5-4 vote, granted the administration’s request to lift a lower court’s injunction that had blocked the so-called public charge policy, which has been criticized by immigrant rights advocates as a “wealth test” that would disproportionately keep out non-white immigrants.
Anybody wants to guess how DACA ruling is going to fall? It is sad. However, I think that the DT admin has a good chance of winning their arguments in DACA case.

[FarAwayfromGC]

Anybody wants to guess how DACA ruling is going to fall? It is sad. However, I think that the DT admin has a good chance of winning their arguments in DACA case.

This will in no way impact legal, legitimate , tax paying immigrants - so don't be sad. Don't we all pay taxes ? This rule is for people who "Game the System" and live on tax payer's money, please read it and understand before feeling "SAD". Conserving tax payer's money is not bad. As you said , DT may win DACA case as well - unfortunate. But, public charge rule is good in my personal opinion.

[qesehmk]

This will in no way impact legal, legitimate , tax paying immigrants - so don't be sad. Don't we all pay taxes ? This rule is for people who "Game the System" and live on tax payer's money, please read it and understand before feeling "SAD". Conserving tax payer's money is not bad. As you said , DT may win DACA case as well - unfortunate. But, public charge rule is good in my personal opinion.

Except that public charge rule is not consistent with this poem from 1883 etched on Statue of Liberty:
Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!

It is true that it is very unlikely that EB candidates are affected. It's mostly about Family Migration and that too mostly illegal one.

[FarAwayfromGC]

Except that public charge rule is not consistent with this poem from 1883 etched on Statue of Liberty:
Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!

It is true that it is very unlikely that EB candidates are affected. It's mostly about Family Migration and that too mostly illegal one.

Good One Sir .. this quote comes from Emma LazarusÂ’ sonnet AKA "Statue of Liberty poem" , It is quite forgotten after the Statue of liberty immigrated to US from France !!! I am just saying in a lighter mood, no offense to any one.

[gs1968]

Some details of modified s386 revealed by Charles Kuck
No harm clause removed. 50-50 provisions delayed for 3 years. AOS filing for approved I-140 for 2 years

[abcx13]

Some details of modified s386 revealed by Charles Kuck
No harm clause removed. 50-50 provisions delayed for 3 years. AOS filing for approved I-140 for 2 years

Any news on when it might come up for voting?

[gs1968]

I think it is a unanimous consent request next week

[GCMirage]

For the past couple weeks there is some chatter in ring-wing media outlets about new visa categories for agricultural workers etc., there is a concerted effort to build a case for adding temp agricultural and construction worker visas because the unemployment rate is low. At the same time there is also push-back from some quarters adding new temp workers will dampen the wage growth etc., etc., The reason I bring this up is because this may present an opportunity to get consensus on S386, it will be interesting to see if any attempt would be made by Senator Lee or others to roll everything into a single package.

[vsivarama]

The clause E should be somewhere around 4 years. Not that I want people to wait for an extended period to file I-485. But I can see, big Indian companies abusing this clause by applying labor and I-140 for applicants and bring them directly on L1/B1 and converting to EAD without the need for H1. Thus they could flood the market with folks working for less. My two cents. Let me know if I am incorrect in my assumptions.

[srimurthy]

The clause E should be somewhere around 4 years. Not that I want people to wait for an extended period to file I-485. But I can see, big Indian companies abusing this clause by applying labor and I-140 for applicants and bring them directly on L1/B1 and converting to EAD without the need for H1. Thus they could flood the market with folks working for less. My two cents. Let me know if I am incorrect in my assumptions.

I don't think you can apply for 140 while on B1 as the Business visa is not a work permit. And getting the EAD give a liberty for people to move between employers. And there could be more filings in L1, but that can always go for reviews like the present scenario. And any way everyone in L1 is going for a EB1 filing these days.

[gten20]

For those who are interested. Details of S386 amendments --> https://www.dropbox.com/s/kyzfnj2fwjhqkwp/S.386_Working_Draft_Feb2020.pdf?fbclid=IwAR3z4l1n1 EHQ3nR-6cDDTE2vLQ31S0B0l6p-q5o-zhTPFWq5uIEjWJ9U6kE

[NJMavarick]

It seems D has NASSCOM written all over it and E has IT Serve....

[monsieur]

The clause E should be somewhere around 4 years. Not that I want people to wait for an extended period to file I-485. But I can see, big Indian companies abusing this clause by applying labor and I-140 for applicants and bring them directly on L1/B1 and converting to EAD without the need for H1. Thus they could flood the market with folks working for less. My two cents. Let me know if I am incorrect in my assumptions.

Moment a person will get EAD/AP they will move to other employer instead of sticking to Indian IT firms. One of the big reason these firms where not filing for H1-B and went to L1 route in 2010s. Don't know if it still holds true or not as all I heard that H1 and L1 is pretty hard to get if JD says consultant / analyst.

[NJMavarick]

The clause E should be somewhere around 4 years. Not that I want people to wait for an extended period to file I-485. But I can see, big Indian companies abusing this clause by applying labor and I-140 for applicants and bring them directly on L1/B1 and converting to EAD without the need for H1. Thus they could flood the market with folks working for less. My two cents. Let me know if I am incorrect in my assumptions.

There is no perfect solution. While 4 seems reasonable considering I have already been waiting for 9+ years :) Again, this may not be the final version of the bill and we could see more changes. With the current administration and most likely the future one (i.e. betting on trump) clamping down on L1s as well..there is no respite to these outsourcing companies. They have to hire locally...

[vsivarama]

Lol! I have been waiting for 8+ years. Not sure if it's funny or sad that we think 4 years wait is reasonable. I do agree that it's easier to move around once you have EAD (but the companies have indulged in questionable tactics to make workers stay with them before). But I was more concerned by the fact that now there is no numerical cap like 65,000 (H1s) restricting companies as they will have more ways to work around the annual cap. Clamping down on L1's will only push the companies to using the EAD loopholes. Again there is no perfect solution. Agreed!

[Raj0687]

Breitbart (yes, biased I know) quotes a Lee spokesman as saying as he has "no immediate plans for a UC".

https://www.breitbart.com/immigration/2020/03/03/mike-lee-rewrites-s-386-giveaway-bill-helps-indias-outsourcing-companies/

Breitbart's reporter Neil Munro is the worst person, I have ever seen. He writes all cooked up stories on the #s386 bill, not a line of it is correct. I am not sure why he hates it so much.

He always say 'thousands of american students loose job because of #s386', then I asked him, #s386 keeps the total number of green cards per year are same, it only changes the process of granting green cards, how would Americans loose jobs because of #s386? He then blocked me.

He has zero common sense and no interest in learning about #s386, but kept trolling.

[qesehmk]

These right wing nuts don't deserve any room for doubt. They are racist. Period. Never ever mistake them for anything else.

Their boss is on record saying very clearly that immigration from Norway is good but others not so.

They are not fighting for little guy in Pennsylvania; they are fighting with an imaginary cultural attack from not-white people. If these guys were indeed worried about the little guy in PA then they would have fought for him long time back when millions of low paying manufacturing jobs moved to China. Even today most of Trump stuff is made in China. (which by the way I am all for. I am just pointing out the hypocrisy).

The liberal+libertarian masonic system of American government has created unprecedented wealth for all sections of the society here in the US. These extreme right wing morons if unchecked are going to ruin it. As far as immigrants go, I can't stress it enough, you can use republicans all you want. But, while there certainly are many good republicans; the fact of the matter is, the racists by and large belong to GOP.

[GhostWriter]

I know Q and i did try to separate the comments on two. 1 and 3 are only for the right wing part. Probably should have ordered differently.



Ghost

My observation about right wing folks has nothing to do with IV. They are two separate issues.

[qesehmk]

I know Q and i did try to separate the comments on two. 1 and 3 are only for the right wing part. Probably should have ordered differently.

Ghost - because your comments are mixed I still can't figure out what was unfair about my comments.

But perhaps we both can agree that whoever removes country caps we will celebrate. Label does not matter. Justice matters.

[Immigo]

AILA came out with it's opposition to S.386 (https://www.aila.org/advo-media/issues/all/featured-issue-legislation-impacting-per-country).

[GhostWriter]

Absolutely Q.



Ghost - because your comments are mixed I still can't figure out what was unfair about my comments.

But perhaps we both can agree that whoever removes country caps we will celebrate. Label does not matter. Justice matters.