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[Kanmani]

Malaysian Flight crashes near the border between Ukraine and Russia, carrying 295 souls on board was bound to kuala lumpur from Amsterdam. Ukrainian officials suggests that the plane might have shot down by a missile and assures they didn't do that.

[qesehmk]

Guys here is to the unfortunate souls on the Malaysian plane shot down today. I don't understand sometimes what makes people lose all their conscience and do something like this.

[pdfeb09]

Guys here is to the unfortunate souls on the Malaysian plane shot down today. I don't understand sometimes what makes people lose all their conscience and do something like this.

The idiot who pulled the trigger must have been effing blind ... tells you something about the consequences of military grade hardware in the hands of nuts .. the victims included eminent scientists researching HIV/AIDS .... just makes your blood boil .. sorry for the rant ..

PS: will move this to the thread started by Kanmani ..

[Ramsen]

The idiot who pulled the trigger must have been effing blind ... tells you something about the consequences of military grade hardware in the hands of nuts .. the victims included eminent scientists researching HIV/AIDS .... just makes your blood boil .. sorry for the rant ..

PS: will move this to the thread started by Kanmani ..

Again it gives a warning that if sophisticated weapons are given to Terrorists what can happen. If nuclear bomb is given to them they will not hesitate to test that also. It is a big deal for crashing a passenger flight which is 20 to 30 thousand feet by a missile. Now this will go away with no action and terrorists will become more bold

[sportsfan33]

1) 3 Muslim students (husband-wife, and the husband's sister) shot dead in the head by an angry and clearly racist lunatic at the UNC campus. It is taking the police forever to label it what it is - a hate crime. Apparently, this was a dispute over a parking spot.
2) An Indian grandpa (Mr. Patel) is walking peacefully on the sidewalk in his everyday morning routine in Alabama. Some paranoid (and possibly racist) person calls the cops over "suspicions" that this man is "peeking in our garages". Cops show up. Grandpa reaches his pocket possibly to take out his identification (he had a green card). His head meets the pavement the next moment and he is paralyzed.

What is scary? Anyone of us could easily be in any of those 2 situations.

Are we seriously in the right country? This country is full of mentally deranged people who are devoid of any soul. Some girls in my daughter's kindergarten class have already started talks of dating and marriage (I don't have to mention the fact they are not Indian).

Sometimes I wonder why the hell I spent my better parts of the years waiting for that GC anyway.

I hope there is true justice, but I am not betting it in either case. I also realize how wrong my perception was in the shooting of Michael Brown.

[qesehmk]

Some paranoid (and possibly racist) person calls the cops

You are being generous... Racism is alive and possibly growing since there is a section of white folks mostly in south that their culture is under assault.

Most of these folks do fit a good stereotype - gun-toting / southern / white / male / rush limbaugh - palin fans / tea nuts.

But thankfully America is much bigger than these nuts.

[srimurthy]

You are being generous... Racism is alive and possibly growing since there is a section of white folks mostly in south that their culture is under assault.

Most of these folks do fit a good stereotype - gun-toting / southern / white / male / rush limbaugh - palin fans / tea nuts.

But thankfully America is much bigger than these nuts.

And to be fair back home it is not that the grass is green. Girls are not safe, women alone can't go to a movie and not sure they can travel safe in an auto / cab which is a far cry from when as a kid we could travel easily in public transport.
The value for life and others hard earned money is zilch and that is all because the primary education for all is a dream. We have long back moved from a savings society to a spending society. Effects of which will be felt soon on the GDP and economy.

[qesehmk]

True... can't deny that too.
p.s. In terms of Savings vs Spending .... the problem is not Spending as much. Spending is actually good since it indicates living standard. The problem is spending without producing i.e. inflated unrealistic asset prices backed by unproductive economy. We have begun to spend what we don't have.


And to be fair back home it is not that the grass is green. Girls are not safe, women alone can't go to a movie and not sure they can travel safe in an auto / cab which is a far cry from when as a kid we could travel easily in public transport.
The value for life and others hard earned money is zilch and that is all because the primary education for all is a dream. We have long back moved from a savings society to a spending society. Effects of which will be felt soon on the GDP and economy.

[pdfeb09]

1) 3 Muslim students (husband-wife, and the husband's sister) shot dead in the head by an angry and clearly racist lunatic at the UNC campus. It is taking the police forever to label it what it is - a hate crime. Apparently, this was a dispute over a parking spot.
2) An Indian grandpa (Mr. Patel) is walking peacefully on the sidewalk in his everyday morning routine in Alabama. Some paranoid (and possibly racist) person calls the cops over "suspicions" that this man is "peeking in our garages". Cops show up. Grandpa reaches his pocket possibly to take out his identification (he had a green card). His head meets the pavement the next moment and he is paralyzed.

What is scary? Anyone of us could easily be in any of those 2 situations.

Are we seriously in the right country? This country is full of mentally deranged people who are devoid of any soul. Some girls in my daughter's kindergarten class have already started talks of dating and marriage (I don't have to mention the fact they are not Indian).

Sometimes I wonder why the hell I spent my better parts of the years waiting for that GC anyway.

I hope there is true justice, but I am not betting it in either case. I also realize how wrong my perception was in the shooting of Michael Brown.

Sports .. while the scourge of racism has not been eliminated from the American society, this society is far ahead of scores of others, including back home, when it comes to identifying the problem and actively doing something about it. I do not condone or belittle any of the incidences you mentioned, however, there is more chance of getting some kind of justice here than any other place in the world.


You are being generous... Racism is alive and possibly growing since there is a section of white folks mostly in south that their culture is under assault.

Most of these folks do fit a good stereotype - gun-toting / southern / white / male / rush limbaugh - palin fans / tea nuts.

But thankfully America is much bigger than these nuts.

Q .. Usually the South gets the rap for these things (may be because of Jim Crow laws) when many non-south places are equally bad. Talk about Texas, Arizona .. In case of mid-west ... the population is mostly white and the opportunity there to feel insecure and act out is less.. except for a few cities..

I agree South does have it's share of nuts but rest of the America is not without them either. I, however, agree with you that America is much bigger than all these nuts from various places put together .. and most of the America, thankfully, places high values on morals and ethics over the race ..

I know quite a few folks who display all the characteristics of the so called nuts on social media( and while debating certain issues), but are very understanding, encouraging and logical when talked to in person .. it is hard to tell what their real thinking is .. do they do it just to fit in with their crowd while internally being nice .. or is it the other way round ..

I live in the South .. by the way ..

[pdfeb09]

True... can't deny that too.
p.s. In terms of Savings vs Spending .... the problem is not Spending as much. Spending is actually good since it indicates living standard. The problem is spending without producing i.e. inflated unrealistic asset prices backed by unproductive economy. We have begun to spend what we don't have.

For the Indian economy, so long as there is cheap and skilled labor available in India, and the INR is cheaper than the rest of currency, there will be jobs .. if the education system in India keeps pace with the innovations going on in the world, we will have cheap labor for the world .. the GDP will keep growing .. hopefully, innovation (the one that helps the entire world and not just locally for regional folks - read jugad) picks up and we start innovating,producing and consuming locally .. the sheer population and the demand will make the American market not so significant in that case.. energy is the biggest concern..

[qesehmk]

Q .. Usually the South gets the rap for these things (may be because of Jim Crow laws) when many non-south places are equally bad. Talk about Texas, Arizona .. In case of mid-west ... the population is mostly white and the opportunity there to feel insecure and act out is less.. except for a few cities..


pdfeb - thanks for your thoughts. I live in Arizona. Arizona and Texas are quite republican. They are not as bad as Alabama. But they certainly don't stand shoulder to should with east or west coast. I have also lived in mid-west. My general experience in midwest was very nice. People were generally very courteous. So when we moved to AZ - we were aghast at the sight of people spitting, trashing and honking .... not to mention what we initially perceived as outright rude way of treating customers. But now we have kind of adjusted here. The state is beautiful and people are somewhere in the middle. They are not too radical left or right.


hopefully, innovation (the one that helps the entire world and not just locally for regional folks - read jugad) picks up and we start innovating,producing and consuming locally .. the sheer population and the demand will make the American market not so significant in that case..

Bingo. That's what I was referring to. India is moving ahead but is way far behind because of structural problems in the economy, governance and judiciary. The politicians don't quite help either :) Oink oink.

[imdeng]

Sports - I completely get what you are saying. I shudder to think that my folks, who visited last summer, used to walk everywhere in the neighborhood almost every morning; and this could easily have happened to them. we currently live in a conservative neighborhood (the one that essentially elected Scott Walker) and there is a palpable and growing sense of something-not-quite-alright around.

Thankfully, the whole country is not like that. There are pockets where immigrants are accepted, welcomed and celebrated even. It is up to us to find those enclaves and essentially vote with our feet.

Update: I should also mention that I am not far from the Sikh Temple Shootings a little while back. So something horrible has happened very close to me. However, a violent action by a mentally ill person is something very different than police violence. My interactions with local police here in WI has all uniformly left a bad taste in the mouth.


1)...
What is scary? Anyone of us could easily be in any of those 2 situations.

Are we seriously in the right country? This country is full of mentally deranged people who are devoid of any soul. ...

[imdeng]

Well said Q. Unrealistic asset prices are going to crash sometime soon - and that is going to hurt a lot of people.

True... can't deny that too.
p.s. In terms of Savings vs Spending .... the problem is not Spending as much. Spending is actually good since it indicates living standard. The problem is spending without producing i.e. inflated unrealistic asset prices backed by unproductive economy. We have begun to spend what we don't have.

[qesehmk]

The video of the Indian guy who was mishandled by Alabama police. Nobody should be treated this way - neither a 57 year old nor a 27 year old. You watch and decide.

http://www.waff.com/clip/11130956/raw-dashcam-video-from-madison-police?autostart=true

[imdeng]

After the video, the cop responsible has been arrested and will likely be fired. http://www.dailykos.com/story/2015/02/13/1364206/-VIDEO-released-showing-Alabama-police-paralyzing-innocent-grandfather-from-India-officer-arrested

I am very encouraged by the response that the event has received. There are corners of the country where hate/racism flourishes, but the mainstream and the rule of law is alive and well.


The video of the Indian guy who was mishandled by Alabama police. Nobody should be treated this way - neither a 57 year old nor a 27 year old. You watch and decide.

http://www.waff.com/clip/11130956/raw-dashcam-video-from-madison-police?autostart=true

[qesehmk]

After the video, the cop responsible has been arrested and will likely be fired. http://www.dailykos.com/story/2015/02/13/1364206/-VIDEO-released-showing-Alabama-police-paralyzing-innocent-grandfather-from-India-officer-arrested

I am very encouraged by the response that the event has received. There are corners of the country where hate/racism flourishes, but the mainstream and the rule of law is alive and well.
Yes imdeng and i have seen mostly sympathetic reactions from most people. Most people were outraged. I hope the person fully recovers. That will be worth more to him than any multimillion dollar lawsuit.

[gten20]

After the video, the cop responsible has been arrested and will likely be fired. http://www.dailykos.com/story/2015/02/13/1364206/-VIDEO-released-showing-Alabama-police-paralyzing-innocent-grandfather-from-India-officer-arrested

I am very encouraged by the response that the event has received. There are corners of the country where hate/racism flourishes, but the mainstream and the rule of law is alive and well.

Not just fired. The Cop has been criminally charged with third degree assault.

[sportsfan33]

Sports .. while the scourge of racism has not been eliminated from the American society, this society is far ahead of scores of others, including back home, when it comes to identifying the problem and actively doing something about it. I do not condone or belittle any of the incidences you mentioned, however, there is more chance of getting some kind of justice here than any other place in the world.

Sorry, I don't agree.

This is "manifest destiny" indoctrination. It somehow makes you believe America is unique and exceptional. It's not.

America's problems are pronounced because it is a violent culture. Yes, racism problems are everywhere but you would rarely see them transformed like they are in the US. Insulted? yes, that happens. Violently attacked/killed/paralyzed? Must be the good ol' US.

Also, you are misinformed about the so called "justice" in the US. It doesn't always happen.

Yes, not everyone in the south has experienced this. Indian community here has always shied from social justice issues in the US somehow thinking they are immune from its problems. But the incident in Alabama should be an eye opener. It could be anyone's dad. My dad is nearly 80, doesn't speak English well, doesn't hear that well now, but is still physically active and likes to take walks.

I have told him to spend his money for traveling elsewhere. I don't want him to visit the US ever again.

P.S. Also, claiming the US is ahead of other societies in terms of coping with racial issues is a slap in the faces of nearly all developing countries including India. This country did not treat a significant portion of its population as humans as recently as 50 years ago. India opened its first school for women in 1848 under the boots of British Raj.

[sportsfan33]

Thankfully, the whole country is not like that. There are pockets where immigrants are accepted, welcomed and celebrated even. It is up to us to find those enclaves and essentially vote with our feet.



Those pockets are US metros where immigrants are substantial in numbers, sometimes even the majority.

[sportsfan33]

Bingo. That's what I was referring to. India is moving ahead but is way far behind because of structural problems in the economy, governance and judiciary. The politicians don't quite help either :) Oink oink.

Q, I think India is far ahead in "humanity".

[imdeng]

India, outside the metros, is a very different place. US, outside the crazy conclaves, is a very different place. Same goes for almost every other place.

When I first landed in the country, I was shocked to see the poverty. I am still shocked by the inherent, structural, racial bias in almost everything. I can not wrap my head around all the science-denial. I laugh at all the "american exceptionalism" talk. However, within all this, this is the most immigrant friendly place in the world. It allows for the kind of freedom that does not exist in most of the world. My wife consistently maintains that she can handle all the challenges of the US to escape the gender-bias of India.

It is up to us to help make US as better place since we have a stake in its future. So be a better citizen, lead by example, show the racially-biased that you are better than their stereotypes. Be politically active - vote if you are citizen, contribute to candidates and parties that support your rights if you have a GC and are legally allowed to contribute. I am quite disappointed by the low voter turnout in Asian and Hispanic communities - less than 50% in the 2014 elections!

The country is in the middle of a tremendous demographic upheaval. Many people, who previously enjoyed direct access to power, prestige and influence, feel very threatened by this change. They will push back in their own, sometimes violent way. But this tide will not stop - our children will live in a minority-majority America. A good part of America is fine with it - we need to join and support that part and help make this a better place.


Q, I think India is far ahead in "humanity".

[qesehmk]

Q, I think India is far ahead in "humanity".
No doubt sport. Not just India - in general the East is far ahead in humanity than the West.

Western humanity starts where they completely vanquish other cultures and societies. They do not understand co-existence. Their equality comes not out of human compassion but rather as a means to achieve stability, wealth, and continuity.

I haven't figured out whether I would be happier in a place where people commit hundreds of small injustices to others but are fairly non-violent OR whether I would be happier in a place where if you live through the night - the day generally goes quite well.

[sportsfan33]

No doubt sport. Not just India - in general the East is far ahead in humanity than the West.

Western humanity starts where they completely vanquish other cultures and societies. They do not understand co-existence. Their equality comes not out of human compassion but rather as a means to achieve stability, wealth, and continuity.

I haven't figured out whether I would be happier in a place where people commit hundreds of small injustices to others but are fairly non-violent OR whether I would be happier in a place where if you live through the night - the day generally goes quite well.

Q, that's an excellent way of putting it. You are very eloquent.

I used to be in the latter camp, but lately, I have changed, and I am going to the former camp.

I don't think however if the 2 camps are mutually exclusive. The hundreds of small injustices are a direct result of poverty. It's possible that the fundamental process of wealth creation is ugly and violent, and maybe that's why the West created it and we didn't. However once created, the process of wealth sharing doesn't have to be like this. Let's circle back on this in 10 years when India has gone further along its wealth curve.

Imdeng, I agree with all your points. Everything you say is true...until...it isn't. I cannot take away the disturbing video out of my head because I see my dad there. In one instant, everything could fall apart, and it is inconceivable anywhere else in the world. Everything that happened after that event is also extraordinary. This whole thing is so diabolical and wrong on so many levels (right from the racist paranoid caller) that I find it hard to not get disgusted. I have been called on once just like this, and I had a "visit". It's an experience I have never told anyone before.

[pdfeb09]

Sorry, I don't agree.

This is "manifest destiny" indoctrination. It somehow makes you believe America is unique and exceptional. It's not.

America's problems are pronounced because it is a violent culture. Yes, racism problems are everywhere but you would rarely see them transformed like they are in the US. Insulted? yes, that happens. Violently attacked/killed/paralyzed? Must be the good ol' US.

Also, you are misinformed about the so called "justice" in the US. It doesn't always happen.

Yes, not everyone in the south has experienced this. Indian community here has always shied from social justice issues in the US somehow thinking they are immune from its problems. But the incident in Alabama should be an eye opener. It could be anyone's dad. My dad is nearly 80, doesn't speak English well, doesn't hear that well now, but is still physically active and likes to take walks.

I have told him to spend his money for traveling elsewhere. I don't want him to visit the US ever again.

P.S. Also, claiming the US is ahead of other societies in terms of coping with racial issues is a slap in the faces of nearly all developing countries including India. This country did not treat a significant portion of its population as humans as recently as 50 years ago. India opened its first school for women in 1848 under the boots of British Raj.

Sports .. Justice does not always happen here in USA .. I agree .. however, I will maintain that when it comes to accepting that a particular problem exists and taking steps to improve it holistically, this country has been at the fore front.

Also, you are mixing racism and sexism.

Saying that India opened its first school for women in 1848 under the boots of British Raj does not absolve India from the general treatment meted out to women overall ..when you compare the treatment of women in general in both the countries, where do you think the situation is better?

I actually typed up a long post pointing out the racism back home (and violent at that) and other problems, but then realized, I am bashing India too much and unnecessarily in the wrong post.

Problems exist everywhere .. there needs to be a mindset to acknowledge them, study the root causes and work on them gradually .. I just think the USA and western countries overall have done more or have a better approach towards it ...

I also agree with Q that the history has been that the western cultures were actually barbaric and without morals back in the days .. but may be because of that they have learnt to handle it and at least acknowledge it ....

I love India .. and wouldn't trade a single minute of my time I spent there starting from my birth for anything ... but we travel and we learn ..

This is my last on the subject...

[pdfeb09]

No doubt sport. Not just India - in general the East is far ahead in humanity than the West.

Western humanity starts where they completely vanquish other cultures and societies. They do not understand co-existence. Their equality comes not out of human compassion but rather as a means to achieve stability, wealth, and continuity.

I haven't figured out whether I would be happier in a place where people commit hundreds of small injustices to others but are fairly non-violent OR whether I would be happier in a place where if you live through the night - the day generally goes quite well.

Q ... just ask somebody in the rural parts(something outside Maharashtra .. somewhere in the bodo lands .. or in Bihar .. or .. dare I say Kashmir) of India to give you an example of the places you just described .. do you think the answers will be what you think the answers are?

Plus the definition of small injustices and fairly non-violent will differ .. not to mention surviving-the-night anecdotes ..

It depends upon what part of India we compare to what part of the USA .. comparing the rural part of South to Pune or Mumbai would be unfair (you did not do it explicitly .. my assumption .. I shouldn't assume too much ..) .. Compare NYC to Mumbai .. or a rural part of the south to a village in Bihar .. or MP or Chhattisgarh .. try the Chambal area .. if you so desire ...

Just realized that Imdeng had put this thought very concisely in his post ..

Again .. I do not want to sound like bashing my beloved home .. I am being too harsh .. I understand .. and we are actually digressing .. the point is .. USA is working towards solving the problems that it acknowledges it has .. Is it there yet ? NO

Is India working towards solving the problems it has .. Yes .. is it easy .. NO ... is it doing a better job than the USA? ... probably NOT ... are the people in general bad? NO .. the politicians back home thrive on the existing problems and have no real will to solve them ..

I broke my word to Sport about the last post .. but this really is my last ..

[PD2008AUG25]

Not just fired. The Cop has been criminally charged with third degree assault.

I am pretty sure this Cop will be re-hired within 6-12 months. Don't believe? check out links.

http://boingboing.net/2014/08/03/fired-police-officer-reinstate.html
http://boingboing.net/2012/05/24/police-officer-fired-for-drivi.html
http://boingboing.net/2014/01/30/omaha-cop-fired-for-beating-s.html

[sportsfan33]

Q ... just ask somebody in the rural parts(something outside Maharashtra .. somewhere in the bodo lands .. or in Bihar .. or .. dare I say Kashmir) of India to give you an example of the places you just described .. do you think the answers will be what you think the answers are?

Plus the definition of small injustices and fairly non-violent will differ .. not to mention surviving-the-night anecdotes ..

It depends upon what part of India we compare to what part of the USA .. comparing the rural part of South to Pune or Mumbai would be unfair (you did not do it explicitly .. my assumption .. I shouldn't assume too much ..) .. Compare NYC to Mumbai .. or a rural part of the south to a village in Bihar .. or MP or Chhattisgarh .. try the Chambal area .. if you so desire ...[/COLOR]

Just realized that Imdeng had put this thought very concisely in his post ..

Again .. I do not want to sound like bashing my beloved home .. I am being too harsh .. I understand .. and we are actually digressing .. the point is .. USA is working towards solving the problems that it acknowledges it has .. Is it there yet ? NO

Is India working towards solving the problems it has .. Yes .. is it easy .. NO ... is it doing a better job than the USA? ... probably NOT ... are the people in general bad? NO .. the politicians back home thrive on the existing problems and have no real will to solve them ..

I broke my word to Sport about the last post .. but this really is my last ..

You should really read the US history. Right from the days of slavery up until the civil rights. And I mean "real history", not the rosy nonsense taught in the schools. It is available.

I am not commenting on the other obviously cherry picked names and inaccurate conclusions. (Edit. One such conclusion is "acknowledgment". This is absolutely grossly inaccurate - rest in peace Mike Brown, Tamir Rice and Eric Garner. Thank you the video camera and the fortuitous accident that the patrol car happened to shoot it and the police could hide it no longer).

I just want to say that I love the US for many things, but no love is unconditional.

[qesehmk]

Good discussion guys - pdfeb and sports.

In closing - I will say - I am generally an extremely opinionated guy. But some of these topics beat me. I keep thinking.

Western world as pdfeb correctly observed has learnt from its history and is improving. However - I wonder if the apparent peace and harmony is slave to material well being. In other words - take away the material comforts - and there could be an explosion of unrest. Rest of the world is not as much rich and yet the crime rate is much less and the nature of crimes is rarely as heinous. What does that say about western society?

I think India too is progressing and I believe India will progress faster on social equality and justice than western society ever will. Western society sees these things as instruments to achieve stability. India sees it as an ideal. India is barely a 60-70 year old democracy (although it is a 5000 year old civilization). Regardless of your political view point - I think - most people will agree that for Modi and Kejariwal both people voted for progress rather than along the lines of caste religion or region. That is a good sign for social justice and economic progress. In modern economies those two things go hand in hand.

That brings us back to mother USA. Isn't its own economic progress an indication of social justice and vice versa? I do think the answer is yes. However, how many people view social justice as economic necessity vs a human ideal vs a necessary evil ..... I do not know.

My last on this topic!

[imdeng]

Ahhh.... http://www.indiawest.com/news/global_indian/hindu-temple-in-seattle-vandalized-on-eve-of-maha-shivratri/article_f5fceb10-b6f1-11e4-a992-bb139f000c66.html

Its just somebody with a spray can of paint. We shouldn't read too much into it.

[sportsfan33]

Good discussion guys - pdfeb and sports.

In closing - I will say - I am generally an extremely opinionated guy. But some of these topics beat me. I keep thinking.

Western world as pdfeb correctly observed has learnt from its history and is improving. However - I wonder if the apparent peace and harmony is slave to material well being. In other words - take away the material comforts - and there could be an explosion of unrest. Rest of the world is not as much rich and yet the crime rate is much less and the nature of crimes is rarely as heinous. What does that say about western society?

I think India too is progressing and I believe India will progress faster on social equality and justice than western society ever will. Western society sees these things as instruments to achieve stability. India sees it as an ideal. India is barely a 60-70 year old democracy (although it is a 5000 year old civilization). Regardless of your political view point - I think - most people will agree that for Modi and Kejariwal both people voted for progress rather than along the lines of caste religion or region. That is a good sign for social justice and economic progress. In modern economies those two things go hand in hand.

That brings us back to mother USA. Isn't its own economic progress an indication of social justice and vice versa? I do think the answer is yes. However, how many people view social justice as economic necessity vs a human ideal vs a necessary evil ..... I do not know.

My last on this topic!

Q, there is tremendous anecdotal evidence that an average American person falls apart without material comforts.

I disagree about economic progress and social justice going hand in hand. In the 1950s, the US was "comparatively" FAR FAR richer. It had world's 6% population and some 40% wealth. It was the sole producer of goods and it fed half the world from the leftover grains that its pigs did not consume. And yet in the 1950s, a big section of the population did not have basic civil rights. To give you an idea of how the income was rising in the 1950s, I read a statistic that says that if the rate of income increase from the 1950s had sustained, today the "average US personal income" would be $194000 (I remember this number because it's kind of odd and so incredible). I tried finding its source but couldn't. But I don't doubt its validity.

I know Indian people who came here in the late 60s, and I have heard from them how they felt - the difference between India and the US was too huge then. The US was just too rich and powerful. Today, an average American is comparatively poorer and the US influence in the world is much lesser.

Something radically changed in the 1960s. Civil rights came about. The immigration act of 1965 was passed - all of us are here in this country because of that one singular act. The world is today what it is because of it. I wish I was in the US then, because given its history, there is just no way I can explain why these events took place in the US (I think it was the aliens). But they did, and they set in motion "multicultarization of the US", which is irreversible and is forcing the US to get along with the world rather than impose its manifest destiny on us. I would say the US is forced to progress.

I guess we did discuss some things here. Anyway, I will also close my thoughts, and wish Sureshbhai Patel a speedy recovery. I just read that the thug cop plead not guilty, and I have no doubt he will be reinstated at some point. I will keep following that news.

[qesehmk]

sport - I love discussion and you raise very good points. But lets take this offline on email. Mine is - my handle AT Gmail dot com. Let me know yours and we can continue to discuss.

p.s. - I will make three quick points though.
A) You are probably missing the after effect of two world wars and destruction of all major powers except US.
B) Multi-culturization of US is not just white vs non-whites. European countries have their own distinct cultures that they brought to US. So Irish Italians Germans Swedes and so on each one has something different.
C) Even without Civil rights - US had already developed great character. It started right with their belief that "all men are created equal". Then we see something beautiful (and a lot ugly too) happening as they conquered the west. There is a reason West in the US is so pro-immigration. Highly recommend watching Ken Burn's National Parks series. And of course FDR's new deal was a great precursor to civil rights. Even today we see expression of that liberal thought at the highest levels in people like Buffett Gates and Bloomberg and in numerous organizations big and small all across US.

See ... these are all reasons .... my mind is f....'d up. I keep wondering and wondering and wondering ...


Q, there is tremendous anecdotal evidence that an average American person falls apart without material comforts.

I disagree about economic progress and social justice going hand in hand. In the 1950s, the US was "comparatively" FAR FAR richer. It had world's 6% population and some 40% wealth. It was the sole producer of goods and it fed half the world from the leftover grains that its pigs did not consume. And yet in the 1950s, a big section of the population did not have basic civil rights. To give you an idea of how the income was rising in the 1950s, I read a statistic that says that if the rate of income increase from the 1950s had sustained, today the "average US personal income" would be $194000 (I remember this number because it's kind of odd and so incredible). I tried finding its source but couldn't. But I don't doubt its validity.

I know Indian people who came here in the late 60s, and I have heard from them how they felt - the difference between India and the US was too huge then. The US was just too rich and powerful. Today, an average American is comparatively poorer and the US influence in the world is much lesser.

Something radically changed in the 1960s. Civil rights came about. The immigration act of 1965 was passed - all of us are here in this country because of that one singular act. The world is today what it is because of it. I wish I was in the US then, because given its history, there is just no way I can explain why these events took place in the US (I think it was the aliens). But they did, and they set in motion "multicultarization of the US", which is irreversible and is forcing the US to get along with the world rather than impose its manifest destiny on us. I would say the US is forced to progress.

I guess we did discuss some things here. Anyway, I will also close my thoughts, and wish Sureshbhai Patel a speedy recovery. I just read that the thug cop plead not guilty, and I have no doubt he will be reinstated at some point. I will keep following that news.

[qesehmk]

Another tragic killing of an Indian student ...

http://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2015/03/15/new-details-revealed-in-death-of-albany-dental-student-killed-in-her-apartment/

[qesehmk]

Another overzealous cop on a power trip in NY.

http://www.nbcnewyork.com/video/#!/news/local/"How-Long-Have-You-Been-in-This-Country?"-NYPD-Investigating-Video-of-Cop's-Degrading-Tirade-Against-Uber-Driver/298200411

[gcq]

Q,
When we guys find fault with some of the errant elements in american system, why are you guys so silent about the non-sense that is happening in our country the beef ban and other non-sense ?
I am not supporting the actions of cops in this incident or that in Louisiana. They should be brought to justice. The issue here is errant elements in the police force that is acting against the intend and spirit of laws. Laws itself are not at fault, these officers are.

However in our country, laws are made to impose the beliefs of religious majority over minority. I don't see many hindus reacting against it here or in India. It is kind of hypocritical.
Sorry to touch this subject, but couldn't help it.

[qesehmk]

Q,
When we guys find fault with some of the errant elements in american system, why are you guys so silent about the non-sense that is happening in our country the beef ban and other non-sense ?
I am not supporting the actions of cops in this incident or that in Louisiana. They should be brought to justice. The issue here is errant elements in the police force that is acting against the intend and spirit of laws. Laws itself are not at fault, these officers are.

However in our country, laws are made to impose the beliefs of religious majority over minority. I don't see many hindus reacting against it here or in India. It is kind of hypocritical.
Sorry to touch this subject, but couldn't help it.
Totally w u gcq on this.

I really felt sad when on march 21st indian courts found 16 jawans not guilty for killings of 40 innocent muslim youth during 1987 meerut (hashimpura) nagar riots.

The only thing I would add is indian system is fd up with all of us against all of us. So minorities are not always treated well . But then we dont treat majority well either.

[gcq]

Totally w u gcq on this.

I really felt sad when on march 21st indian courts found 16 jawans not guilty for killings of 40 innocent muslim youth during 1987 muzffar nagar riots.

The only thing I would add is indian system is fd up with all of us against all of us. So minorities are not always treated well . But then we dont treat majority well either.

The solution is to remove the minority/majority thing from rule making process. Unfortunately our people are easily swayed by fundamentalist religious parties. I am from Kerala and I am a Christian. I am proud we keralites followed our tradition of not letting BJP in our state. We knew what they really were despite all the "Modi Wave". Raping nuns and attacking churches have become fashion now a days. We as a minority are not speaking publicly against it because it can fan religious passion and will play into the hands of communal parties like BJP. It is for you educated level thinking hindus to speak up against it. Unfortunately, in billion strong India, I don't see many hindus speaking up against it. I lived in Maharshtra/bombay for couple of years. I was there during the mumbai religious riots. I remember some of my hindu colleagues rejoicing when mosques were burnt and muslims were attacked//killed. Even after so many years, our country hasn't improved a bit. Now we have a religious fundamentalist Pakistan and hindu version, which is India.

[pdfeb09]

The solution is to remove the minority/majority thing from rule making process. Unfortunately our people are easily swayed by fundamentalist religious parties. I am from Kerala and I am a Christian. I am proud we keralites followed our tradition of not letting BJP in our state. We knew what they really were despite all the "Modi Wave". Raping nuns and attacking churches have become fashion now a days. We as a minority are not speaking publicly against it because it can fan religious passion and will play into the hands of communal parties like BJP. It is for you educated level thinking hindus to speak up against it. Unfortunately, in billion strong India, I don't see many hindus speaking up against it. I lived in Maharshtra/bombay for couple of years. I was there during the mumbai religious riots. I remember some of my hindu colleagues rejoicing when mosques were burnt and muslims were attacked//killed. Even after so many years, our country hasn't improved a bit. Now we have a religious fundamentalist Pakistan and hindu version, which is India.

gcq,

I am a hindu by birth and an Indian by culture. What I mean is, I have dear friends that believe in religions other than Hinduism and I am perfectly fine with that. I actually like quite a few things that are not inherently hindu. I am a BJP supporter. Have always been. Not because of their religious inclination, but because I do believe that they will take India forward with appropriate decisions (read development --- dare I say, for all).

I am acutely aware of the party's religious prejudice, however, I believe that that is to garner support from the masses who would rue the loss of handouts and do not understand (or immediately benefit from) long term development (Wow .. I sound so much like the right wing conservatives here ....dammit .. I guess I am as ignorant, judgmental and brain-washed) .. religion would bind them as seen by the theatrics of Ratha yatra and Babri masjid demolition.. I hope the party moves away from this ...

I do not support what is going on in India since BJP came to power in terms of the religious elements brandishing their influence or power (Beef ban is one such measure).

I absolutely abhor and condemn in the strongest possible terms the atrocities carried out(by whoever they were carried out). Rape is reprehensible regardless of the religion or the status/position of the victim and/or the perpetrator.

I hope the administrations at the local, state and center take the strongest possible actions for these crimes, regardless of the religion of the perps. I am actually afraid of the goon mentality as much as you are no matter what religion the goons belong to.

I also think that there are many in India who believe and think the way I do. The silent majority actually does not condone any of these offenses and are pro-development rather than pro-religion.

Why do you think BJP thumped Shiv Sena in Maharashtra during elections? Why do you think MNS was pretty much demolished in the elections. Shiv Sena and MNS have no development agenda. The only thing they try to coalesce people on is religion and sectarianism(Marathi Manoos funda).

Keep the faith gcq and believe in people. Who knows, there could be elements from the defeated parties trying to instigate riots and blame it on the ruling govt. because perceptions matter.

I may sound like a brain-washed BJP bhakt, as some are. I am with them because I think there will be development and better governance under that party. I don't think they are saints, though. I definitely agree that the top echelons need to send a strong message against religious intolerance, because that is not what is needed in India.

By the way .. Are you serious about the India Pak comparison? I hope and assume you were just venting ..

My last.

[Suva2001]

gcq,

I am a hindu by birth and an Indian by culture. What I mean is, I have dear friends that believe in religions other than Hinduism and I am perfectly fine with that. I actually like quite a few things that are not inherently hindu. I am a BJP supporter. Have always been. Not because of their religious inclination, but because I do believe that they will take India forward with appropriate decisions (read development --- dare I say, for all).

I am acutely aware of the party's religious prejudice, however, I believe that that is to garner support from the masses who would rue the loss of handouts and do not understand (or immediately benefit from) long term development (Wow .. I sound so much like the right wing conservatives here ....dammit .. I guess I am as ignorant, judgmental and brain-washed) .. religion would bind them as seen by the theatrics of Ratha yatra and Babri masjid demolition.. I hope the party moves away from this ...

I do not support what is going on in India since BJP came to power in terms of the religious elements brandishing their influence or power (Beef ban is one such major).

I absolutely abhor and condemn in the strongest possible terms the atrocities carried out. Rape is reprehensible regardless of the religion or the status/position of the victim and/or the perpetrator.

I hope the administrations at the local, state and center take the strongest possible actions for these crimes, regardless of the religion of the perps. I am actually afraid of the goon mentality as much as you are no matter what religion the goons belong to.

I also think that there are many in India who believe and think the way I do. The silent majority actually does not condone any of these offenses and are pro-development rather than pro-religion.

Why do you think BJP thumped Shiv Sena in Maharashtra during elections? Why do you think MNS was pretty much demolished in the elections. Shiv Sena and MNS have no development agenda. The only thing they try to coalesce people on is religion and sectarianism(Marathi Manoos funda).

Keep the faith gcq and believe in people. Who knows, there could be elements from the defeated parties trying to instigate riots and blame it on the ruling govt. because perceptions matter.

I may sound like a brain-washed BJP bhakt, as some are. I am with them because I think there will be development and better governance under that party. I don't think they are saints, though. I definitely agree that the top echelons need to send a strong message against religious intolerance, because that is not what is needed in India.

By the way .. Are you serious about the India Pak comparison? I hope and assume you were just venting ..

My last.

That's a very good explanation. I agree with you.

[gcq]

pdfeb09,

Appreciate your comments and views. That is the way it should be. I know there are many hindus that follow your thought process. In fact I have met some from Gujarat itself during my last trip to India. As for economic policies, i favour BJPs right leaning policies over congress's socialist leaning policies. Though I am from Kerala I hate socialism/communism from my heart. I traditionally vote congress, but found congress's many recent handouts old fashioned and destructive for our economic future. However should we support BJP for its economic policy ignoring its religious fanaticism ? No. Upholding human values and equality is much more valuable than economic prosperity. For example look across our borders to China. They are economically prosperous, but do they have any freedom ? Govt decides how many children they can have ! What is the point in having such a prosperity ? When people are so illiterate and backward to attack churches and mosques, rape and kill people in the name of religion, what is the point in having economic prosperity. Comparing Pakistan to India ? It is totally fair. The only reason India is not going the way of Saudi or some muslim countries is because we have a proper democracy. If RSS umbrealla organisations had their way, we would be one of the worst nations.

It is up to you majority guys to raise voice against this nonsense. Entire world is watching. All the respect and dignity India had is nose-diving because of this BJP rule. Today I am ashamed to consider myself an Indian not only because of the atrocities committed against my community, also because India is being viewed as an uncivilized nation.

[suninphx]

Why do you think BJP thumped Shiv Sena in Maharashtra during elections? Why do you think MNS was pretty much demolished in the elections. Shiv Sena and MNS have no development agenda. The only thing they try to coalesce people on is religion and sectarianism(Marathi Manoos funda).



Are you from Maharashtra? If you are then I would say you told only half truth. The reason BJP won was because 40% candidates were imported from other parties. So basically its Bhartiya Rashtrwadi party in Maharashtra. Every one knows that. Elections are won and lost - it's part of system. Do not count anyone out yet including MNS. And BTW if you get time do watch 'development blueprint' MNS created. Atleast they tried.

[qesehmk]

The solution is to remove the minority/majority thing from rule making process. Unfortunately our people are easily swayed by fundamentalist religious parties. I am from Kerala and I am a Christian. I am proud we keralites followed our tradition of not letting BJP in our state. We knew what they really were despite all the "Modi Wave". Raping nuns and attacking churches have become fashion now a days. We as a minority are not speaking publicly against it because it can fan religious passion and will play into the hands of communal parties like BJP. It is for you educated level thinking hindus to speak up against it. Unfortunately, in billion strong India, I don't see many hindus speaking up against it. I lived in Maharshtra/bombay for couple of years. I was there during the mumbai religious riots. I remember some of my hindu colleagues rejoicing when mosques were burnt and muslims were attacked//killed. Even after so many years, our country hasn't improved a bit. Now we have a religious fundamentalist Pakistan and hindu version, which is India.

gcq - BJP eventually will be no better or worse than congress. Congress had its idealistic past and BJP too soon will reminisce its past glory. Power will corrupt everyone.

But for now - I am frankly happy that we have changed the political diapers!!!

My own perspective is that we are in the process of ruling ourselves and becoming a modern nation. There are many fractures and divisions. It is the job of the rulers to lead the society in harmony and unity. In India the British destroyed our ruling class and handed India to the bureaucrats. These bureaucrats who never had the experience of running a country - engaged in corruption rather than uplifting the country, increase unity, and improving our might. India today needs 1000s of leaders who can join politics and cleanse the political system on their own without any banner.

We should stand for justice and freedom for ALL of Indians regardless their caste / religion or region or even political affiliation! Indian justice system is a big joke. I find it frustrating that no political party talks about the need to reform the justice system. Many time the crimes are local.

Christianity as well as Islam in India have a long history. India is the mother of civilization where a lot of different ethnic groups came settled and thrived. Arabs - Jews - Parsis - Mughals - Mongols - Shak & Huns (Rajaputs are Shak!) and so on....

So India is tremendously powerful as a civlization and society because we already carry multiple perspectives and have respected others right to live and prosper!!

Our justice system is a reflection on our social hierarchial legacy as well as the british bureaucratic legacy. But I am still fascinated and extremely hopeful about India. I will be honest -- after all these years I am seriously pondering if I should go back!

[gcq]

Rajnath Singh to BSF: Halt cattle smuggling, starve Bangladesh of beef

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/Rajnath-Singh-to-BSF-Halt-cattle-smuggling-starve-Bangladesh-of-beef/articleshow/46778048.cms (http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/Rajnath-Singh-to-BSF-Halt-cattle-smuggling-starve-Bangladesh-of-beef/articleshow/46778048.cms)

India's home minister worried about Bangladeshis eating beef.

[qesehmk]

Rajnath Singh to BSF: Halt cattle smuggling, starve Bangladesh of beef

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/Rajnath-Singh-to-BSF-Halt-cattle-smuggling-starve-Bangladesh-of-beef/articleshow/46778048.cms (http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/Rajnath-Singh-to-BSF-Halt-cattle-smuggling-starve-Bangladesh-of-beef/articleshow/46778048.cms)

India's home minister worried about Bangladeshis eating beef.
These things are distractions. There are bigger issues to focus on.

[gcq]

These things are distractions. There are bigger issues to focus on.
I guess nobody gave him his job description when he was sworn in :cool:

[qesehmk]

I guess nobody gave him his job description when he was sworn in :cool:
LoL!!! May be somebody did and that's what he is doing!!

I am being really cynical here now.

[pdfeb09]

Rajnath Singh to BSF: Halt cattle smuggling, starve Bangladesh of beef

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/Rajnath-Singh-to-BSF-Halt-cattle-smuggling-starve-Bangladesh-of-beef/articleshow/46778048.cms (http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/Rajnath-Singh-to-BSF-Halt-cattle-smuggling-starve-Bangladesh-of-beef/articleshow/46778048.cms)

India's home minister worried about Bangladeshis eating beef.

I feel like crying ... :) .... This is a classic case of misinterpreting the mandate given by the populace .. anyways .. smuggling anything is bad .. but priorities are currently misplaced .. me thinks.

[whereismygc]

http://www.theindianpanorama.com/us/legislation-to-speed-up-visa-approvals-for-indian-and-pakistani-doctors-to-work-in-the-u-s-introduced

Some hope for Pakistani and Indian doctors waiting for Visas.

[whereismygc]

Indian Visa Camp at Phoenix Arizona on May 3rd.

Sunday May 3, 2015, 9:00 AM to 2:00 PM
@ Ekta Mandir Assembly Hall
2804 W. Maryland Ave., Phoenix, AZ 85017
Organized by Indo-American Foundation &
India Association of Phoenix


See below for Detailed Instructions








Go to CKGS Website (http://r20.rs6.net/tn.jsp?f=001Fm8mM6uNL1F5NuLoPpoU_a6Izazna52Ye2HkSv lUhbMhXYY6nTISYH26Cs9mtjO_yZf9PMBozDzD6Ca7so6lzTcC FTgpQ5my2KuYRvp3EFBxroyBDiHaV0vGQlNC0tAV2UkJCNL58M b2GGV6ysjCGuwEJL5WgDvn5ZLQJEf8yRcsqFEjcmvre8jXj8Wa WclJsR-Lj8oLyosHHm_6CO1HQYblxWcuo0UFqT8yvlUedBykTmd6BqgEF ubSWKx4AMThvSaBNJm3_JtI2KL_rubdLQ==&c=HxIihcqpv5v1IzKLS_DzhG2HZ2BIqMRFbcpXUX-d6JCIfTw-ojm2yQ==&ch=RuLEn5e1ypNJ7NpTAmZT2KiwFEqkwMwKdgH_LjQElXcZktp rjO6eTg==)and Make an Appointment to submit Visa Application for Indian Visa Camp-Phoenix
Please Bring Appointment Letter with you
Applicants with appointments will be issued a token number on entrance. Only applications with tokens & appointment will be processed.
Up to 400 Appointments Available
Applications will be accepted for Indian Visa/OCI Card/Renunciation Certificate
Applications will have to be personally submitted by the applicants. One applicant can submit the applications for all members of the family
Applications will NOT be accepted from Travel Agents, or from a non-family member of the applicants or from Non-US nationals and those from countries having dual nationality agreements with the United States or. Such applicants may apply directly at/mail applications to CKGS in San Francisco
Prepare Visa/OCI/Renunciation application (http://r20.rs6.net/tn.jsp?f=001Fm8mM6uNL1F5NuLoPpoU_a6Izazna52Ye2HkSv lUhbMhXYY6nTISYH26Cs9mtjO_ePr-POwzRnnc0Go4wF7eAFSSAgVNkfy3ZeC9Ry3IuyDe4iH-ahwY4p-uCyry58N1csIfrsbutZo045FUn7n3RkbV02ksUl2Ce2L01R-fewzDATSBGrznIg==&c=HxIihcqpv5v1IzKLS_DzhG2HZ2BIqMRFbcpXUX-d6JCIfTw-ojm2yQ==&ch=RuLEn5e1ypNJ7NpTAmZT2KiwFEqkwMwKdgH_LjQElXcZktp rjO6eTg==)as you would normally do to send it to Cox and Kings Global Services, San Francisco. Bring completed applications, along with required documents, to the Visa Camp and give to Cox and Kings Global Services
All fees will be accepted through Cashier Check, Money Order or through Credit or Debit Cards ONLY. No Cash or Personal Checks will be accepted.
Submitting your Visa / OCI application in person at the Visa Camp costs the same as submitting your Visa / OCI application by post.
Below is the break-down of fees:
Consular Fees
Per Visa/OCI/Renunciation Fee Schedule
CKGS Service Fee - $17
Courier Fee to Send to San Francisco - $15
Courier Fee to Return the Passport - $15

For Further Information Contact:
Swati Pandey, swati7300@hotmail.com,
cell # 480 628 4983
Manish Gupta, shabloo@hotmail.com,
cell # 602 688-7011
Minaxi Patel, minadzina@yahoo.com,
cell# 928 925 5062
Satheesh Ambadi, ambadi@cox.net,
cell # 480 703 2000
Cox & Kings Global Services (http://r20.rs6.net/tn.jsp?f=001Fm8mM6uNL1F5NuLoPpoU_a6Izazna52Ye2HkSv lUhbMhXYY6nTISYH26Cs9mtjO_ePr-POwzRnnc0Go4wF7eAFSSAgVNkfy3ZeC9Ry3IuyDe4iH-ahwY4p-uCyry58N1csIfrsbutZo045FUn7n3RkbV02ksUl2Ce2L01R-fewzDATSBGrznIg==&c=HxIihcqpv5v1IzKLS_DzhG2HZ2BIqMRFbcpXUX-d6JCIfTw-ojm2yQ==&ch=RuLEn5e1ypNJ7NpTAmZT2KiwFEqkwMwKdgH_LjQElXcZktp rjO6eTg==)

[iatiam]

As many of you know, Nepal was devastated by an earth quake a few days back which has left thousands dead and many more injured and homeless. Nepal is a developing country with a very small economy. It needs all the help to recover from this disaster. I urge everyone to reach out and donate to all charities working in the region to provide relief. Here is a list of vetted charities,
http://www.pri.org/stories/2015-04-25/how-help-nepal-7-vetted-charities-doing-relief-work-following-earthquake
Every dollar helps. So please help as much as you can.

Iatiam

[qesehmk]

As many of you know, Nepal was devastated by an earth quake a few days back which has left thousands dead and many more injured and homeless. Nepal is a developing country with a very small economy. It needs all the help to recover from this disaster. I urge everyone to reach out and donate to all charities working in the region to provide relief. Here is a list of vetted charities,
http://www.pri.org/stories/2015-04-25/how-help-nepal-7-vetted-charities-doing-relief-work-following-earthquake
Every dollar helps. So please help as much as you can.

Iatiam


Thanks Iatiam. Here is one more name - a charity run by Desi folks that we (qesehmk.org) have donated in the past.

The charity is IDRF (India Development and Relief Fund). They are also collecting donations to help Nepal earth quake relief.

https://donatenow.networkforgood.org/IDRF?code=WebsiteDonateOnline


CONTACTS
301-704-0032
vinod@idrf.org
www.idrf.org (http://www.idrf.org)

[PD2008AUG25]

I am pretty sure this Cop will be re-hired within 6-12 months. Don't believe? check out links.

http://boingboing.net/2014/08/03/fired-police-officer-reinstate.html
http://boingboing.net/2012/05/24/police-officer-fired-for-drivi.html
http://boingboing.net/2014/01/30/omaha-cop-fired-for-beating-s.html

Sad to be right here..

Charges dismissed for cop who paralyzed innocent grandfather on a stroll

http://boingboing.net/2016/07/19/charges-dismissed-for-cop-who.html

[qesehmk]

Clinton Promises Big...

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/latino/clinton-pledges-fast-track-immigration-bill-economic-boost-blacks-latinos-n623826

[gten20]

Clinton Promises Big...

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/latino/clinton-pledges-fast-track-immigration-bill-economic-boost-blacks-latinos-n623826

2008 Deja Vu

[qesehmk]

2008 Deja Vu
I wouldn't disagree :(

If history is any indication of future then that's what might happen.

[Jagan01]

Clinton Promises Big...

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/latino/clinton-pledges-fast-track-immigration-bill-economic-boost-blacks-latinos-n623826She blames it on republicans which is their strategy to not take the blame.

Democrats had the majority in both houses and the white house and could have cleared immigration reform in the first term of Obama.

The reason the did not do it is simple. Had they cleared immigration reform then they would have lost a major vote bank.

All that democrats want to do is to keep the immigration issue boiling forever and keep getting elected on the Latino vote.

[qesehmk]

She blames it on republicans which is their strategy to not take the blame.

Democrats had the majority in both houses and the white house and could have cleared immigration reform in the first term of Obama.

The reason the did not do it is simple. Had they cleared immigration reform then they would have lost a major vote bank.

All that democrats want to do is to keep the immigration issue boiling forever and keep getting elected on the Latino vote.

Not just her ... all politics works that way. EB has no friends. That's the truth.

[anuprab]

Not just her ... all politics works that way. EB has no friends. That's the truth.

the only thing i can think of 2008 is with financial markets in total chaos and lehman bankrupt, doing anything related to immigration would have be political suicide for Dems..hopefully we dont have a situation like that if and when Dem come to power this time around...

[Raj0687]

the only thing i can think of 2008 is with financial markets in total chaos and lehman bankrupt, doing anything related to immigration would have be political suicide for Dems..hopefully we dont have a situation like that if and when Dem come to power this time around...

But then, they don't power in senate and house.

If dems win presidency, senate this year and win house in 2018, then there is chance for CIR, till then nothing happens.

[gcq]

Republicans warn Trump: Right the ship or lose Senate (http://www.cnn.com/2016/08/08/politics/donald-trump-republicans-senate/)