Stop EB1 Fraud

[smithsingh]

Sorry for going off topic... However, I feel there is an urgent need to stop abuse of EB1C..

Dear Friends,

There is a lot of misuse of EB1C category going on these days. Below are two examples.

1. People create small companies of 5-6 people sitting in remote villages in India. They have a so called multinational manager heading them who can create fake papers in India. They then come to USA and apply for EB1C as multinational managers. Once they get their green card in 6 months, they move aside and let another multinational manager take the spot. And the cycle continues giving EB1C green card to illiterate people.

2. Software giants like TCS, CTS, are misusing it big time to get EB1C visa for their employees and therefore avoiding the H1B route of paying fees every 3 years. These employees as just BE + 3 years experience and they have one person reporting to them and then they claim to be multinational managers.

Please follow the following steps to stop this abuse
1. Please sign this petition: http://www.petition2congress.com/6398/stop-eb1-...
2. Please contact your Senators and Congressmen personally and make them aware of the misuse. Remember that sending emails personally to Senators and congressmen will stop this misuse.

Stopping abuse of EB1C will give EB2 their rightful spillover.... Please spread the word !!! Try and mobilize the fight against misuse...

[Pchirumalla]

Sent the petition.

[singh1]

signed the petition

[raminator]

Sorry for going off topic... However, I feel there is an urgent need to stop abuse of EB1C..

Dear Friends,

There is a lot of misuse of EB1C category going on these days. Below are two examples.

1. People create small companies of 5-6 people sitting in remote villages in India. They have a so called multinational manager heading them who can create fake papers in India. They then come to USA and apply for EB1C as multinational managers. Once they get their green card in 6 months, they move aside and let another multinational manager take the spot. And the cycle continues giving EB1C green card to illiterate people.

2. Software giants like TCS, CTS, are misusing it big time to get EB1C visa for their employees and therefore avoiding the H1B route of paying fees every 3 years. These employees as just BE + 3 years experience and they have one person reporting to them and then they claim to be multinational managers.

Please follow the following steps to stop this abuse
1. Please sign this petition: http://www.petition2congress.com/6398/stop-eb1-...
2. Please contact your Senators and Congressmen personally and make them aware of the misuse. Remember that sending emails personally to Senators and congressmen will stop this misuse.

Stopping abuse of EB1C will give EB2 their rightful spillover.... Please spread the word !!! Try and mobilize the fight against misuse...

Signed the petition.

[Jagan01]

Sorry for going off topic... However, I feel there is an urgent need to stop abuse of EB1C..

Dear Friends,

There is a lot of misuse of EB1C category going on these days. Below are two examples.

1. People create small companies of 5-6 people sitting in remote villages in India. They have a so called multinational manager heading them who can create fake papers in India. They then come to USA and apply for EB1C as multinational managers. Once they get their green card in 6 months, they move aside and let another multinational manager take the spot. And the cycle continues giving EB1C green card to illiterate people.

2. Software giants like TCS, CTS, are misusing it big time to get EB1C visa for their employees and therefore avoiding the H1B route of paying fees every 3 years. These employees as just BE + 3 years experience and they have one person reporting to them and then they claim to be multinational managers.

Please follow the following steps to stop this abuse
1. Please sign this petition: http://www.petition2congress.com/6398/stop-eb1-...
2. Please contact your Senators and Congressmen personally and make them aware of the misuse. Remember that sending emails personally to Senators and congressmen will stop this misuse.

Stopping abuse of EB1C will give EB2 their rightful spillover.... Please spread the word !!! Try and mobilize the fight against misuse...

Gurus,
Please suggest ideal steps to stop this EB1C abuse. I know many people here like Kanmani, Q, MATTM etc. have a nice understanding of the rules. Anything that we can do to ask USCIS to take steps to curb this EB1C abuse. Steps that do not require law changes but administration changes would be ideal.

Any ideas ?

[idiotic]

Gurus,
Please suggest ideal steps to stop this EB1C abuse. I know many people here like Kanmani, Q, MATTM etc. have a nice understanding of the rules. Anything that we can do to ask USCIS to take steps to curb this EB1C abuse. Steps that do not require law changes but administration changes would be ideal.

Any ideas ?

http://www.uscis.gov/avoid-scams/report-immigration-scams

[qesehmk]

Guys moved the discussion in its own thread. Please post your thoughts here rather than using the calculations thread.

Please be respectful to majority of EB1s who are talented people - if you have any opinions please state constructively.

[asankaran]

Hi everyone,

I have appointment with my local congressman to discuss the abuse of EB1 C by Indian companies. I am right now collecting data regarding filings of EB1 cases. If you have guys have any information on the number of filings with company name last year, please share it with me along with source of information.

Thank you!

[cancer24]

May not be directly relevant but let me share my story. I worked for a top Indian IT company for 16 years including 7 years on L1-A but my GC was not processed and I was managing a team of 150+ people at the time of resignation. I ended up joining another small firm three years back and now have applied in EB2. I now hear that my old company started processing GCs and anyone who on L1-A visa is getting GC in EB1 (they need not be real managers). They are doing it just to be ready for CIR that will restrict them to lesser expats. I can certainly say that they are abusing EB1.

[Jagan01]

Hi everyone,

I have appointment with my local congressman to discuss the abuse of EB1 C by Indian companies. I am right now collecting data regarding filings of EB1 cases. If you have guys have any information on the number of filings with company name last year, please share it with me along with source of information.

Thank you!

Hi,

thanks for taking the initiative. Hoping you are in some state other than CA as I have already put this forward to CA senators multiple times.

1. You need to highlight that these managerial jobs could have been taken by locals (american citizens) and there is no check like PERM that is preventing this. Explain how PERM is in place for a reason to avoid jobs being lost by american citizens. But somehow it is intentionally ignored for EB1C.
2. Also compare EB1C with EB1A and EB1B and state that they are not at the same level intellectually.
3. Highlight that avg EB1C in the same locality is lesser than avg EB2 salary. For EB2 and EB3 they check prevailing wage to ensure that the candidate is earning enough and employee and employer are collectively not fooling USCIS. Why is that not in place for EB1C.

[seattlet]

I think if USCIS can come up with a simple rule that specifies that folks filing for EB1 C should make atleast 200K - 250 K then 99.999 % of the Eb1 C abuses would go away. If a multinational manager doesnt make that much money there is no reason for him to get preferential treatment. (He is simply another run of the mill employee)

This will restrict EB1 C to real executives like VP's senior directors etc (for whom it was intended)

it should not be that tough to implement. Just like EB 5 has 2 million / 500K limit.



Hi,

thanks for taking the initiative. Hoping you are in some state other than CA as I have already put this forward to CA senators multiple times.

1. You need to highlight that these managerial jobs could have been taken by locals (american citizens) and there is no check like PERM that is preventing this. Explain how PERM is in place for a reason to avoid jobs being lost by american citizens. But somehow it is intentionally ignored for EB1C.
2. Also compare EB1C with EB1A and EB1B and state that they are not at the same level intellectually.
3. Highlight that avg EB1C in the same locality is lesser than avg EB2 salary. For EB2 and EB3 they check prevailing wage to ensure that the candidate is earning enough and employee and employer are collectively not fooling USCIS. Why is that not in place for EB1C.

[Jagan01]

Spec, Do you think the fact that companies like TCS (Tata Consultancy Services) who in their history never processed Green Cards have started processing EB1 for their more senior folks have any effect on overall EB1 usage. I've 3 friends in TCS and all of them got theirs GCs in EB1 category in the last 1 month or so. My guess is approximately 2000-3000 TCS people will get it before September 30th.

Hope this doesn't impact people with PDs till Q1 2009.

Hopefully the below flower campaign might have some impact.

http://www.trackitt.com/usa-discussion-forums/i485-eb/1408711431/-imp-all-be2i-waitring-flower-campaign-a/page/last_page

[qesehmk]

For an outsider EB1C looks like abuse. But those companies are playing by the rules set by DOS and DHS. With all the anti immigrant sentiment they would be foolish to break the rules. Also consider this ... now a days there is an army of people from India in IT industry who are now industry veterans with 15-20 years of solid experience. They may not be product engineers but hey EB1C doesn't demand that. All that EB1C demands is you be a manager in a foreign country 1 out of last 3 years or so. Is it that hard to imagine that there may be 5000 Indians with 15 years of experience of which one out of last 3 years is in a managerial role?

That's why I think it makes no sense to tie employment immigration to any number. If a company wants an employee in US let them bring him here. Just make sure the guys get real wages.


Q, what I see in those numbers is a ridiculously high percent of EB1C. I know this forum is not the right place to talk about it, but that's what glaringly sticks out like a sore sight to the eyes. What I would want to know is: a) how many are from India, and b) how many are from Infy/CTS/TCS.

Edit: I also feel that in terms of absolute numbers, EB1A/B have been dropping over the years...especially EB1B, which seems very hard to get nowadays. If EB1C was absent, EB1 would easily provide tremendous spillover every year to the extent of putting EB2I/C near current.

[vizcard]

There will always be loopholes that people will exploit and bending the rules in other cases. I personally know of cases where the individual is the "desi consulting" model and does not get paid while on the bench. But they somehow manage to provide paystubs that show continuous salary.

I'm also of the school of thought that keeping your PD while porting is crap (and my brother in law is trying to do that btw). But that's the law of the land so we have to deal with it unless there's legislative relief.

[CleanSock]

I hope one day EB1C becomes like L1A/B where they increase the scrutiny so much that only deserving people get it.


Since it's moved to a new thread, I will chime in more.

"Bending" the rules is a straight euphemism for fraud. I don't sugarcoat it like that. Yes, I don't know how much more desi consultancies should be maligned if not enough already. The only silver lining is that there is precedent from the USCIS to stop it - look at a) substitute labor and b) kazarian memo as the 2 most recent measures they took to curb/eliminate fraud. I strongly feel such a measure is just coming to the way of EB1C.

The "bench model" and "EVC models" have already been scrutinized. Personally, I simply feel pity towards people who let themselves be exploited like that. However the other H1B stakeholders may not view it that way. I read stories of US educated PhD folks who were not selected in the H1B lottery this year and their careers were devastated. Not much is done to protect the true stakeholders in the H1B abuse cases too. When I got my H1B, they were still relatively easy to obtain, but it all changed in 2008, and I feel bad for the deserving folks who had to struggle even for an H1B.

I also agree that PD porting is crap. The only reason we are able to deal with it is because fortunately, the USCIS has made it tremendously difficult to port. It routinely discourages about 90% people at the onset and they have to go through a lot of hassle to port. This has benefited EB2 over the years by managing the porting demand. Still, porting is continuing to increase and this year, we will know where it is trending. I agree that everyone in EB3 with a PD > 2005 is attempting to port and it's just a ticking bomb. Whether it diffuses slowly or explodes remains to be seen.

There we go. Honestly, if I had known of these immigration pitfalls, I would have made drastically different career choices 14 years ago. I could still salvage my career (and my wife could salvage hers) thanks to the movement in 2012. I do hope though to give warnings to future aspirant high quality immigrants and let them know that they are venturing into the most corrupt system in the world (pains to say this).

[gcpursuit]

My EB2-NIW petition was denied back in 2008 due to lack of number of citations though USCIS agreed that my work is in national interest. If they are scrutinizing so much for non-perm categories, I am just amazed how EB1C is so easy (based on denials in trackitt for EB1C).

[vyruss]

My EB2-NIW petition was denied back in 2008 due to lack of number of citations though USCIS agreed that my work is in national interest. If they are scrutinizing so much for non-perm categories, I am just amazed how EB1C is so easy (based on denials in trackitt for EB1C).

All the venting on the forums is not going to do any of us any good. What are some of the avenues that can be explored to stem the abuse of this (EB1C) category. Just putting a Ph.d from a top tier research university (EB1A) and a mediocre (EB1C) applicant under the same EB1 umbrella is gut-wrenching. Can you imagine someone doing groundbreaking research being in the same overarching category as someone with 2-3 years IT experience with one "Tester" reporting to him/her? That is what EB1 has become. At least dilute the qualifications for EB1A and EB1B so that it is not look as bad as the status-quo.

So how do we address this? What are some of the top approaches that come to your mind. I am of the impression that petitions are not going to result in any near term solution. Legislative changes are not going to happen with the current anti-immigrant sentiment running high in the GOP. What does that leave us with? I am going to say again ...venting on forums is not an option :)

[gcpursuit]

All the venting on the forums is not going to do any of us any good. What are some of the avenues that can be explored to stem the abuse of this (EB1C) category. Just putting a Ph.d from a top tier research university (EB1A) and a mediocre (EB1C) applicant under the same EB1 umbrella is gut-wrenching. Can you imagine someone doing groundbreaking research being in the same overarching category as someone with 2-3 years IT experience with one "Tester" reporting to him/her? That is what EB1 has become. At least dilute the qualifications for EB1A and EB1B so that it is not look as bad as the status-quo.

So how do we address this? What are some of the top approaches that come to your mind. I am of the impression that petitions are not going to result in any near term solution. Legislative changes are not going to happen with the current anti-immigrant sentiment running high in the GOP. What does that leave us with? I am going to say again ...venting on forums is not an option :)

vyruss - no venting. Just citing my example that any non-PERM category ( EB1A/EB1B/EB2-NIW) are being scrutinized so much except Eb1C. What about reaching out to USCIS Ombudsman to review/tighten EB1C criteria?

[qesehmk]

So at the risk of inviting some people's ire here is my perspective.

Sometimes there is a feeling that because I studied in a US university or because I worked for an MNC that I should get preference over somebody who stuck with one desi MNC for 10-15 years. Be honest guys. That's what this is. How do I know? Well because I went to a US school... got into American MNC became director in 4-5 years and blah blah blah blah. So obviously I had some sort of superiority complex. But then I quickly realized that all these things are only in our mind. Life and career is a long race. And there are different routes to it. Working for an Indian MNC may not be what some may like. But that is a valid one too. Whether we like it or not DOS and DHS have already accepted EB1C usage by Infy and likes.

Besides many many canadians and brits and australians are already enjoying EB1C for many many years. Just go and see the numbers. EB1C Indians are hardly 10-12K - if that.

My personal view is that it is far more productive to criticize this damn 7% limit that is so unfair to Indians an Chinese. It is almost racist and so unlike basic American values. DOS and DHS are denying Indians and Chinese equal opportunity just because they were born in those two countries. That's a far more reasonable argument. So Indeed if you feel strongly make a case that way. May be form a pressure group.

[gcq]

Well said Q.


When you are in the final days of your life, what will you want?
Will you hug that college degree in the walnut frame? Will you ask to be carried to the garage so you can sit in your car? Will you find comfort in rereading your financial statement? Of course not. What will matter then will be people. If relationships will matter most then, shouldn't they matter most now?
- Max Lucado

[vyruss]

The USCIS has to take a stand, plain and simple.

Well why would the USCIS take a stand? They are following the written law, aren't they? In the past they have addressed similar abuse when it was either brought to their attention or it was self-evident because of an unrealistic increase in the category usage. A few cited examples include: Labor Substitution and the Kazarian Memo. If a memo can create the desired effect, why not use something like that. So that begs the question, what prompted the Kazarian memo. Can some similar circumstances/stats be used to inveigle the USCIS into action? Barring legislative action that approach seems to be the only interim fix.

[qesehmk]

Good to hear from you gcq and a good quote too!


Well said Q.

[Spectator]

Well why would the USCIS take a stand? They are following the written law, aren't they? In the past they have addressed similar abuse when it was either brought to their attention or it was self-evident because of an unrealistic increase in the category usage. A few cited examples include: Labor Substitution and the Kazarian Memo. If a memo can create the desired effect, why not use something like that. So that begs the question, what prompted the Kazarian memo. Can some similar circumstances/stats be used to inveigle the USCIS into action? Barring legislative action that approach seems to be the only interim fix.IMO, it's totally wrong to characterize the Kazarian case as an example of abuse.

It was purely a decision about the procedures that USCIS should use when adjudicating EB1A and EB1B cases.

Prior to Kazarian, USCIS took the position that each piece of evidence should in itself demonstrate the Extraordinary or Outstanding Ability required. If the candidate achieved the required 3 or 2 criteria required, USCIS would approve the case.

Kazarian argued that USCIS should accept any evidence in the required criteria, regardless of quality.

The judge ruled that USCIS, when counting evidence should accept any evidence in the required criteria. Having done so, they should then perform a second Final Merits Determination to decide whether, overall, the applicant had reached the required standard to have their EB1A or EB1B petition approved.

Post Kazarian, EB1A and EB1B applicants have been subject to a very subjective opinion from the adjudicating officer about the "totality" of the case. USCIS have never published guidance on what is required for the Final Merits Determination.

Arguably, the previous approach was much fairer. At least the applicants and their attorneys had some idea of what was required.

I don't see how that is abuse in any shape or form.

[qesehmk]

Sports - I didn't meant to criticize you. Perhaps you have seen examples I haven't and I may have seen you haven't. So those examples shape our perspectives!!

All I am saying is I haven't come across enough examples to call it an abuse. But it is possible that they do exist.

I completely disagree.

I have nothing against guys getting immediate GCs in the national interest through EB1A/B or whatever it is. I also have absolutely nothing against getting GCs through EB5. Those guys put their money where their mouth is.

However the "easy" GC that you can obtain through a strategically placed contact/bribe in a typical "desi" way is something that all of us dislike. This is because we left "that des" precisely to avoid such unpleasantness, and it is painful to see them being repeated in the US.

However I know your opinions and I know no one can change them. This is my last post really on this EB1 topic.

[vyruss]

IMO, it's totally wrong to characterize the Kazarian case as an example of abuse.

It was purely a decision about the procedures that USCIS should use when adjudicating EB1A and EB1B cases.

Prior to Kazarian, USCIS took the position that each piece of evidence should in itself demonstrate the Extraordinary or Outstanding Ability required. If the candidate achieved the required 3 or 2 criteria required, USCIS would approve the case.

I don't see how that is abuse in any shape or form.

Kazarian whether well intended or not was used as a judgement tool to deny some EB1 cases is what I am getting from this. My argument is maybe something similar can be accomplished with EB1C cases with a similar memo as well. Once again, we need to know what the motivation for Kazarian was and what initiated its drafting. There probably is an online resource I could look up.

Q: Change to the 7% limit you mention would require a legislative change. May be as humans we look at any low hanging fruits first. Like you said, the EB1C usage may not account for much; but once you start adding the dependents it does amount to a lot. To change or address the 7% country cap, we need to know what category of discrimination it falls under. Can we argue "disparate impact" during recruitment in general? I am not even sure if the anti-discrimination laws apply to immigrants as well. Obviously there were efforts in this direction in the past but without much success.

[Spectator]

Once again, we need to know what the motivation for Kazarian was and what initiated its drafting.That's easy.

USCIS were forced to act by the judgement issued in this United States Court of Appeals, Ninth Circuit case (http://www.wolfsdorf.com/articles/Kazarian_v_USCIS_%28March%204%202010%29.pdf)
Poghos KAZARIAN, Plaintiff-Appellant, versus US CITIZENSHIP AND IMMIGRATION SERVICES, a Bureau of the Department of Homeland Security, Appellees.

Kazarian actually lost the appeal. Although the judges ruled that USCIS had erred in how they interpreted the law, it was ruled "harmless", since Kazarian could still not have satisfied three criteria as required for EB1A.

The fall out from the case was the need to develop a two-stage adjudication process. In theory, it should have made it slightly easier for EB1A/B applicants, since the actual evidence for the criteria became less rigorous. In fact, because it has made the decision more subjective, it has had the opposite effect.

Here are AILA's comments (http://xa.yimg.com/kq/groups/15854395/452608354/name/AILA%20Kazarian%20comment%209-3-10.pdf) when the new rules were put forward for comment. It discusses legitimate concerns that USCIS had overreacted to the Kazarian decision.

There was never any accusation of abuse in EB1A or EB1B, either before or after Kazarian.

It is a complete red herring wrt to the title of this thread.

[qesehmk]

Q: Change to the 7% limit you mention would require a legislative change. May be as humans we look at any low hanging fruits first. Like you said, the EB1C usage may not account for much; but once you start adding the dependents it does amount to a lot. To change or address the 7% country cap, we need to know what category of discrimination it falls under. Can we argue "disparate impact" during recruitment in general? I am not even sure if the anti-discrimination laws apply to immigrants as well. Obviously there were efforts in this direction in the past but without much success.

Anti-discrimination laws apply to everybody in US regardless of your citizenship. It won't be easy to fight but will be worth it.

[gcpursuit]

I have heard of cases ( from my brother in law )where the so called Eb1c managers do technical work at the client site ( more like Test lead etc., ). I am not in IT so I am not sure how true that is.

Also, once people get GC in EB1C category, are there any restrictions on whether they should be in managerial role etc., A friend of mine got his GC in EB1C and later took a job as Systems Analyst. I guess for EB2-NIW cases, there is a restriction that you should work in the same national interest field even after you get your GC or something like that. Correct me if I am wrong.

[vyruss]

Edit 2: Abuse is a wrong word to describe Kazarian or even EB1C. .....It was a corrective action to shift the bias higher to select the best possible candidates. Such a corrective action hasn't occurred in EB1C and my argument is that "it should happen".

Not calling it abusive is sugarcoating the reality. Well, we each have our own lens to view what happens around us. Regardless, I do like what Sport had to say about the need for a corrective action in EB1C.

The current cycle of posts on EB immigration forums:
October-November: Dying flame of hope about further movement; Retrogression worries
November - December: May be they will make a change; Retrogression sinks in
December- June: Gripe about porters and EB1C
June-September: Movement by two to six months and "all is well "

You either seek a short term fix in the form of a corrective action in EB1C or go for something that has long term impacts (the 7% quota for instance). A pressure group was mentioned earlier by Q. There was that other forum that took the lobbying route but did not go too far. "Fwd.us" is all about CIR is what it looks like. Forming a separate pressure group just to look at the discrimination factor will be a wash when you pit it against the CIR behemoth. Divisive small scale action will be fruitless when pursuing immigration changes. This forum has a bunch of people who are very knowledgeable in EB immigrant issues. What in your opinion is the best way forward:

1. Sit tight and ignore what is happening around you
2. Brainstorm the quota issue and come up with a presentable memo that can be circulated among people who can at least voice our opinion at a higher level
3. The EB1C issue: Can we at least get some data on what kind of salary is being offered to these people and draw a comparison to an average EB2. How do we get that data? As a follow up how do we highlight the case if EB1C is indeed an "abuse" and needs a corrective action.

[civilengineer]

Story on L-1s being denied. Is this true? This may affect EB1-C consumption.
http://qz.com/229655/the-us-is-putting-at-risk-the-only-visa-that-made-sense-in-the-new-world-order-the-l-1/

[Jonty Rhodes]

Any takers for crackdown on EB1C misuse :-)

Not sure if that's why the EB1 PERM is slowing down but if it is happening, than I would say Amen!!!! :):)

[feedmyback]

EB1 PERM?? What does that mean?


Not sure if that's why the EB1 PERM is slowing down but if it is happening, than I would say Amen!!!! :):)

[qbloguser]

:-)

You won't believe how seriously people in India take this title of "Manager". Even in USA, I have seen Indians getting this title and then OMG - they are suddenly on different planet!


I am not sure about what crackdown we are talking about. It doesn't seem that way judging trackitt threads. Is there an internal memo in the USCIS on the lines of Kazarian that gives adjudicators tools to reject EB1C applications? Unless such memos go out, EB1C numbers will not go down. They can only temporarily be prevented by issuing RFEs but it cannot go longer.

To put it in perspective, EB1A/B applications can be rejected because the "totality of the application does not prove the merit required for EB1 even though individual criteria are satisfied'. Trackitt threads have many posts of such EB1 rejections. There is no such totality requirement for EB1c. As long as you were some xYZ manager in India, you can get in EB1C. In India, EVERYONE is a manager. Potentially, anyone who can get an L1A visa is going to put in an EB1C application sooner or later. put these facts together and think what kind of demand we are talking about here and how that impacts the prospects of Eb2I folks.

Sorry for the rant. Feel free to move the post to the appropriate thread.

[jimmys]

I am not sure about what crackdown we are talking about. It doesn't seem that way judging trackitt threads. Is there an internal memo in the USCIS on the lines of Kazarian that gives adjudicators tools to reject EB1C applications? Unless such memos go out, EB1C numbers will not go down. They can only temporarily be prevented by issuing RFEs but it cannot go longer.

To put it in perspective, EB1A/B applications can be rejected because the "totality of the application does not prove the merit required for EB1 even though individual criteria are satisfied'. Trackitt threads have many posts of such EB1 rejections. There is no such totality requirement for EB1c. As long as you were some xYZ manager in India, you can get in EB1C. In India, EVERYONE is a manager. Potentially, anyone who can get an L1A visa is going to put in an EB1C application sooner or later. put these facts together and think what kind of demand we are talking about here and how that impacts the prospects of Eb2I folks.

Sorry for the rant. Feel free to move the post to the appropriate thread.


I'm not EB1C. But, would you reject had you been given such chance(EB1C)? No, you wouldn't. You'll be first person in the queue. The problem is not with Indian companies. Indian companies were not known to do GCs back in 2000s. They started taking this route after 80% or so L1 rejection rates at consulates. Earlier they simply put the people back at offshore once their visa term was over. And, brought new set of people to onsite. Since that wasn't possible they want to keep the people who are already here. If given such opportunity I would have jumped in EB1C bandwagon in the blink of an eye.

Don't blame others if you're unable to get GC sooner in EB2 quota.

[qbloguser]

It is not about me or you accepting or rejecting an offer. I don't think people when come here know about these categories at all. They come here on difference visas like L1, H1b etc. Once you go through this long phase of immigration, you become almost an immigration lawyer and then you start talking about different categories and how they are abused. My point is: Companies and their lawyers do this not people like you or me. I don't think you can demand and hey apply my GC in this category or that category.

I have three friends who came here on L1s. Same experience as mine but got their GCs 5 years ago ( I am on H1b and current next month!). They were not aware of these categories when their GCs were applied. They just got it in less than 2 years and but now they know about this backlog and other stuff.

Also, you don't have to be a manager back in India. They get you here on L1 and then continue that "manager" BS to apply your GC.


I'm not EB1C. But, would you reject had you been given such chance(EB1C)? No, you wouldn't. You'll be first person in the queue. The problem is not with Indian companies. Indian companies were not known to do GCs back in 2000s. They started taking this route after 80% or so L1 rejection rates at consulates. Earlier they simply put the people back at offshore once their visa term was over. And, brought new set of people to onsite. Since that wasn't possible they want to keep the people who are already here. If given such opportunity I would have jumped in EB1C bandwagon in the blink of an eye.

Don't blame others if you're unable to get GC sooner in EB2 quota.

[la_2002_ch]

It is not about me or you accepting or rejecting an offer. I don't think people when come here know about these categories at all. They come here on difference visas like L1, H1b etc. Once you go through this long phase of immigration, you become almost an immigration lawyer and then you start talking about different categories and how they are abused. My point is: Companies and their lawyers do this not people like you or me. I don't think you can demand and hey apply my GC in this category or that category.

I have three friends who came here on L1s. Same experience as mine but got their GCs 5 years ago ( I am on H1b and current next month!). They were not aware of these categories when their GCs were applied. They just got it in less than 2 years and but now they know about this backlog and other stuff.

Also, you don't have to be a manager back in India. They get you here on L1 and then continue that "manager" BS to apply your GC.

In my previous company, who did my H1B and filed for GC (I am now on EAD and moved on to a better opportunity) I know of atleast 4 cases where people came here on H1B and they were made "manager" soon after to "manage" the client. After that the company produces (I am assuming fraudulent) docs to convert their visas to L1A and all of them got their GCs 2-3 yeas ago. All of them had come to US 3-4 years after me and even after 10 years being in US, I am still hoping for a GC (current in this month and hoping that someone at NSC will look at my case soon).

there is also one person who was on L1B and is waiting with me to get her GC.

[qesehmk]

I just talked to a friend of mine whose company is so willing to sponsor an EB1 GC for him but his wife and kids don't want to move to US. The guy is a Guru in IT. So he is not using those 4 visas that easily could be his.

Just a perspective here.

EB2 I demand is 50-60% of total EB2 demand based on labor. If you look at EB1 - EB1 India demand is around 25-30% of total EB1 demand.

Those who complain about "high" EB1 I demand - are you saying that Indians are somehow less qualified to be in EB1 but more qualified in EB2?

[Spectator]

Also, you don't have to be a manager back in India. They get you here on L1 and then continue that "manager" BS to apply your GC.It would be more correct to say that you need not have been a Manager or Executive for the qualifying period abroad to qualify for an L1A visa. They could also have been working in a specialized knowledge capacity abroad and be transferred to the USA as a Manager or Executive. The requirement for L1A is only that you will be coming to work in the USA as a Manager or Executive.

For EB1C, the 1 year period abroad must have been served in a Managerial or Executive role. Someone who came to the USA as an L1A, having previously worked abroad in a specialized knowledge capacity, would not qualify for an EB1C.

Hence it is possible to qualify for L1A, but not for EB1C.

If you are saying that the role abroad is subsequently "massaged" somewhat to fit the definition of a Manager, then maybe (probably) that does happen.

In essence, that's appears no different to the inflation of minimum qualifications and experience requirements that appears to be rampant to ensure a PERM certification falls under EB2 when the I-140 is submitted. There appears to be an awful lot of tailoring minimum job requirements to the qualifications and experience the candidate possesses (which just happen to fit EB2), rather than the minimum requirements actually required to perform the job.

The brush works both ways and neither should be deemed to be acceptable. I'm reminded of splinters and 2x4s.

[gcpursuit]

If you are saying that the role abroad is subsequently "massaged" somewhat to fit the definition of a Manager, then maybe (probably) that does happen.

In essence, that's appears no different to the inflation of minimum qualifications and experience requirements that appears to be rampant to ensure a PERM certification falls under EB2 when the I-140 is submitted. There appears to be an awful lot of tailoring minimum job requirements to the qualifications and experience the candidate possesses (which just happen to fit EB2), rather than the minimum requirements actually required to perform the job.

The brush works both ways and neither should be deemed to be acceptable. I'm reminded of splinters and 2x4s.

Amen to that, Spec. It is ironic that both my employers required PhD for their position( not IT) and they had to bring the minimum requirements down since PhD would have been considered restrictive in a PERM.

Just like supervised recruitment and audits for Eb2/EB3 PERMs, I think there should be some measure to scrutinize Eb1C to see if they are really being abused.

P.S : I dont have any issues with Eb1 GCs handed to 'real managers'. I have heard so many stories from my friends who are doing technical work just like any other Eb2/EB3 person but still get through EB1C by only modifying their title ( not what they really do ) to a manager.

[jimmys]

so in your view, one should never oppose any kind of fraud because in a parallel universe, the same person will enjoy the benefits of the said fraud. Got that. Very nice philosophy to live by.

P.S. There is a good reason 80% L1s are rejected. In my view, 100% of them from the maligned Indian IT giant body shops should be rejected.

P.S.2. As I clarified, EVERYONE is a manager in India. I wouldn't be surprised if there are managers in janitors. Thus, anyone who is lucky to get L1A is a straight EB1C approval. I have nothing against the US throwing EB based gcs like that, but if it's not consistent across all categories, sooner or later the abusers bring about their own demise. to refresh your memory, I have 2 words; "substitute labor'.

I'm very surprised to see your comments. Do you think USCIS don't know these companies are applying for EB1C? Years after years. Why can't USCIS scrutinize these companies when they can do hapless small consultancy companies during PERM/I-140? If you think 80% of L1s rejection is justified why can't USCIS do the same for EB1C applicants? Who's stopping them? or What's stopping them? Why USCIS taking so long to ban EB1C from these companies? To refresh your memory, EB1C has been there for more than few years for USCIS to understand/find frauds.

You whine because they have the GC and you don't. I don't see any rationale in your argument.Pure grumbling. I'm asking again, would you have rejected had you been offered EB1C by your company (Making arrangement to work 1 year abroad and to come back again on L1A visa)? Would you have told them that it's abuse and you don't like to take it?

Do you know how EB5 visas are fulfilled? Do you know how corrupt Chinese money buy those visas and corrupt ex-Chinese officials use that route to escape China? You may know but you don't care about Chinese taking GCs but you can't tolerate fellow Indians getting greened before you. Long live your philosophy.

[seattlet]

For the folks who are very concerned about EB1 C abuse, there is some good news - thanks to Chennai Embassy's rejection of L1 As and L1 Bs. from what I heard in the last few months the rejection rate for L1 applications are as high as 70 to 80 % or higher. Most folks that I know who tried got rejected (from 3 indian IT firms ) (they were told that the manager job that they were trying to perform at onsite can be done by a local guy and doesnt require previous work experience within the company that L1 portrays). if this continues, there wont be much L1 A's moving in to convert to EB1 C . there will still be Microsoft/ google / Amazon/big firms with offices in India moving their senior folks but that will be less than 1000 folks per year.

And to make things streamlined, the embassy is making all L1 cases to be heard by the couple of visa officers :), compared to H1 other visas
which are allocated one of the 8 to 10 available counters.


if IT organizations stop L1 abuse (both indian as well US based ones like IBM / Accenture are refused L1's, EB1 C abuse will mostly correct itself in a year or so





Yes, it seems to be true news. You won't see EB2I approvals for rest of September unless for those people for whom visa number has already been requested. When October starts, new FY will start with it and EB2I quota will open again so you can expect some lucky ones to get their green cards but then the PD will retrogress to 2005 till may be July, 2015 when it will move forward again depending on the spillover available next year.

I am not particularly concerned about the visas being unavailable till rest of the September because the FY is ending in 20 days anyways and it happened last year also. But I am more concerned about the future progress due to spillover concerns.The situation does not look very good overall especially with the announcement from Mr. CO that EB2I is likely to move forward extremely slowly in long term and applicants should prepare for longer waits. I think high use of EB1C and very high level of porting combined with high demand for EB2I itself is causing this and next year, EB2ROW demand will also pick up which can slow the progress even further.

Overall, it is not a good news and I think the new norm for EB2I is 6-8 years wait from PD with current level of visa allocation and quotas. In fact, if nothing changes then in next 3-4 years, EB3I will start receiving horizontal spillover as EB3ROW is advancing fast. If that happens, there won't be much difference left between EB2I and EB3I. Unless EB1C requirements are changed and made more stringent and EB3-EB2I porting is reduced, EB2I applicants are in for a long painful wait. The only caveat to this situation is if President issues an EO in December which includes some relief for legals or CIR passes in 2015 giving relief to legals. But I would not rely on them. The only other thing that can give EB2I more spillover is if somehow the PERM process slows down considerably and waiting times go up for every new filer to get LC approved.

My PD is in May, 2011 so I am only little more than 3 years from my filing but I am not hopeful at getting a GC before 2018. I can understand how painful it is for people who filed in 2008 and are still waiting.

As Q have said before, try to make a career move instead of waiting for GC eternally. I know that it is easier said than done but one should always try. I am really thinking of making a career move next year if there is no EO in December. I am getting tired of waiting and I don't want to sacrifice my career for green card. If needed, I will change my visa to J1 from H1B, abandon the GC process and take a J1 waiver job if I can advance in my career. Because till this point, I was letting the opportunities pass in wait for GC and I know that 4-5 years from now, I will regret it so I have decided that enough is enough and I will do something to advance my career instead of just waiting with frustration for my GC.

Not that, this may help anybody's cause and I don't want to sound preachy also, but just a friendly thought since I am also one of you.

Good luck to all waiting for GC.

[jimmys]

//For the folks who are very concerned about EB1 C abuse, there is some good news - thanks to Chennai Embassy's rejection of L1 As and L1 Bs. from what I heard in the last few months the rejection rate for L1 applications are as high as 70 to 80 % or higher. //


That's the very reason why EB1C usage is so high. Since there is about 80% rejection in L-1A, they apply GCs for the L-1A folks who're already here. Many years ago, all the Indian outsourcing companies call their employees back to India once their visa expire. And, send in new batch to onsite. After the high rate of rejections, they started applying GCs in EB1C for L-1As. Another reason for EB1C is, some senator proposed that foreign companies should hire 50% (or something like that) permanent residents/citizens to qualify for work visas,etc.

[iatiam]

My apologies in advance for posting a rant.

1) This is NOT an EB1 rant. But this section of the forum has a few rants, so I chose it.
2) Please do not read if you do not like reading rants. This is an upfront warning. Do not blame me or come after me with pitchforks because I have given my disclaimer and I will not indulge in any further dialogue.
3) I believe I have earned the right to post a rant. Sorry Q, I don't want to pollute your forum and as a result of this, I am simply going to stop posting after this extremely selfish act of mine.

So here it goes. I realized yesterday what a waste of time this GC thing was. I would have gone far ahead in life if I was not stuck to this God awful GC process. Yes, my classmates have gone on to become VPs, entrepreneurs and managers...and the common theme among them? They are NOT IN THE US. My brilliant classmates who are all in the US? 1, maybe 2 are living what you would call a success...for the rest, it's a nightmare of varying degree. Hey, I am one of the lucky ones. At least I have my EAD.

Then, a few weeks back, I met a dropout of my class. A very sweet guy. He looked up to me. I talked to him quit a bit. He did everything that you would qualify as fraud (came on a shady H1, massaged his resume, paid for his own H1, bartered for a substitute labor) and as a reward, he has his GC. Got it last year. He came here quite a few years after me (7 years after me in fact). While I was wasting my time in doing research, finding proper employment, getting a "proper H1 so I could travel worry free", this guy did everything the shady way, abandoned travel and stayed put even it meant staying on the bench. He told me so many things how they run payroll on the bench...it was quite innovative in some sense.

The end result? He got it. He was happy and content. I have nothing against him. But when he asked me "are you a citizen yet", I wished I could just disappear in thin air.

Yesterday I snapped. It was long coming. I can finally admit that this was a major blunder. No more sugarcoating. I can now live in peace. The US is a country of opportunists taken to the extreme. If you play by the stupid book, you do not go anywhere. So my advice: Take risks if you want to succeed in this game. This retrogression is going to be very long and the sun won't rise on 2009 for an year or 2 at least. If you have any other innovative plans such as going to India and take an EB1 gamble, now is the time.

I again apologize for my post. This is my last until I get out of the dark place. I will keep interacting with the distinguished members such as Spec, who has kept my faith alive still. God bless his/her soul.

Sports, I hear your pain. I have seen a lot of such cases, people who came here on Desi consultant visas and bought pre-adjucated PERMS are now GC holders and citizens.

Also keep in mind that the law is a double-edged sword. A few years back when HR3012 was being introduced in Senate, Sen. Grassley put a hold on it. He wanted to push some stringent restrictions H1B rules before he would lift the hold. Now, I am in no way condoning his position here, but a lot of those guidelines were indeed necessary to prevent fraud in the system.

I hope some day the system will be fairer and squarer. There will be some areas we like and some areas we hate. I guess that's the nature of the game.

Iatiam

[qbloguser]

Unemployment is very high and economy is not good - These H1bs and other immigrants are taking jobs
No growth in wages - Oh, these illegals are drawing these wages down.
No Visas available for EB2I - Oh, EB1 fraud, let us stop this.

Same complaints, same issues, only nationalities are different! People, we are all the same. Stop pretending otherwise.

P.S.: I am NOT Eb1 - I am Eb2I.

[Jonty Rhodes]

At the time, I did support Grassley's H1B amendments. I was very proud of my "risk free H1B". In 2006, a VO behind the window also talked to me for 5 mins, complimented me on my work and told me how she was irritated by very consultants who would later go on to become PRs and citizens well before I would. I felt so proud on that day!

I have stopped judging anyone now. Something snapped yesterday. I have a new perspective on things.

I don't wish to continue this conversation any more. You could argue that opportunist people who lie and cheat also create opportunities for everyone else (Thomas Alva Edison is a prime example). You could also argue that if everyone in the world did this, there would be chaos. The hard reality is that some people cheat, others don't. It comes down to what you are comfortable doing morals aside. I could not get myself to do unethical things and I am proud of that. Nothing will ever change it. What changed is that I will not be judging anyone who did it. They will live with those decisions. You cannot avoid your conscience and your soul.

I also realized that I should not have been a mindless sheep and explored better options when time was ripe. I will start implementing this from today. It's never too late.

I simply posted because I wanted to scream out loud somewhere. I did say it was a selfish act. I felt better after I did it. We do not discuss these matters at home because we have consciously chosen not to let these things affect us. They indeed don't affect my partner but they affect me greatly. This was an attempt to break free.

Sports, I hear you. I feel the same way as you do. I am a physician. Came here on F1 in 2004. Finished my Masters in Public Health. Did my Internal Medicine (MD) residency for 3 years on H1B. After that, I was offered a 1 year Chief Residency position in my hospital. I did not take it because I wanted to start my GC journey as soon as possible. I applied for fellowship in my last year of residency but got rejected because majority of fellowship programs are only for GC holders and citizens. So I took up a job. My lawyer did not recommend EB2NIW since it was tough to prove. I applied in EB1A but Kazarian Memo was out at that time and rejection rate was very high and my application got rejected. My GC was filed in May, 2011 under EB2I.

Since that point, I had to let go several opportunities because of the visa sponsorship issue. I let some opportunities pass by myself in the beginning after joining new job because I was bound by 3 year contract and found it to be too much hassle. So now I am here after 4 years of job at one place. I kept doing things just to boost my resume. I became a Chief Physician Informaticist and taking an online certificate course but fellowship is still elusive. Now, I am at a point where job is not a problem, money is not a problem but there is no career growth. I am in a midsize town in Midwest and want to advance my career further but there are no opportunities here. Unlike others, who can try EB1C route, I can't because my hospital does not have a branch in India. In fact, for physicians EB1C is not an option at all. I can't go back to India without doing a fellowship here because I can hardly make ends meet in India with only MD in Internal Medicine. I have to be a specialist and do fellowship which are hard to come by without being a GC holder or citizen.

So you know, when you rant about it, I am feeling exactly the same as you. We have lots of engineers from India in our town which are employed by 2 companies here. Most of them have come recently in last 2 years on L1A and then went on getting GC on EB1C. I don't have anything against these people because they are simply taking advantage of the loophole in the system, but I feel disappointed. That is why, I have also decided to make a career move next year. I am going to start looking for jobs or fellowships in other places. May be I will get less money and less comfortable life but at least I will be happy. Just like you, I don't keep talking with my wife about this because she gets sad also but then it affects me greatly. So I try to avoid talking about it at home.

[Jonty Rhodes]

I know about your story so well Jonty! You were cited as one of the examples for the need of HR3012 when the push to it happened. It is unfortunate that there is no escape in the law. The law is flexible enough to allow people to port, to allow insourcing of MNC managers, but why is it not flexible enough to simply "borrow" numbers from the future (if it has to be that) to meet the demand now? The hard numerical limit is insane. I understand the need to control the inflow of people, but this need is for the people who are not here yet.

The US immigration is so out of date, the people are so paranoid and xenophobic and the USCIS is so arrogant and disorganized (at least to the outsiders, that's the way it looks) that the US is simply not the place to be. Most successful people I know from my class are in Singapore already - one is an entrepreneur and one is already a VC (these guys are from the same middle class backgrounds as us). It so happens that we become the demonstration victims of this system so the future generations wise up. Oh, and I do believe that this mess will be fixed some day; it will just be a day when its utility would have been gone for us.

At any rate, there are worse things in life. Just hang in there. We are there to keep each other support and company :)

Agree with you completely.

[vyruss]

I honestly don't know where to post this. My PD is May 18, 2009. This year I resubmitted the medicals. Looking back it looks like I had to do this only to keep my application alive. I have bachelors from IIT, Masters from a top 10 school, fully funded with a paid research assistant position, a GRE of 2350 from the good old days. Was banking on the GC to move to a senior level for the past several years (hindsight a big mistake). Did everything right and stuck to the law. While waiting, I am getting an MBA from a top school (exec-MBA). I am about to graduate from this program and some firms have expressed interest in hiring me contingent on me having a GC by the time I join them of course. Now that dream is dead.

I think I have wasted too many opportunities just waiting on this elusive GC. I have an EAD which I have not used so far. The questions I have for gurus:

1. If I use the EAD do I have to stick to a similar job/industry? Will I lose my PD and may be the opportunity to file for H1B in the future?
2. If I switch to a different industry and let's say the new firm I join files for H1B, and a new PERM, can I port my previous date to this new PERM for a different job profile/industry?

Waited too long to realize that I have to move on to a different path. But the gut-wrenching feeling that I get every time I see the likes that Sports and others have mentioned is getting tough to overcome. Any feedback is much appreciated.

[qesehmk]

Sports, I hear you. I feel the same way as you do. I am a physician. Came here on F1 in 2004. Finished my Masters in Public Health. Did my Internal Medicine (MD) residency for 3 years on H1B. After that, I was offered a 1 year Chief Residency position in my hospital. I did not take it because I wanted to start my GC journey as soon as possible. I applied for fellowship in my last year of residency but got rejected because majority of fellowship programs are only for GC holders and citizens. So I took up a job. My lawyer did not recommend EB2NIW since it was tough to prove. I applied in EB1A but Kazarian Memo was out at that time and rejection rate was very high and my application got rejected. My GC was filed in May, 2011 under EB2I.

Since that point, I had to let go several opportunities because of the visa sponsorship issue. I let some opportunities pass by myself in the beginning after joining new job because I was bound by 3 year contract and found it to be too much hassle. So now I am here after 4 years of job at one place. I kept doing things just to boost my resume. I became a Chief Physician Informaticist and taking an online certificate course but fellowship is still elusive. Now, I am at a point where job is not a problem, money is not a problem but there is no career growth. I am in a midsize town in Midwest and want to advance my career further but there are no opportunities here. Unlike others, who can try EB1C route, I can't because my hospital does not have a branch in India. In fact, for physicians EB1C is not an option at all. I can't go back to India without doing a fellowship here because I can hardly make ends meet in India with only MD in Internal Medicine. I have to be a specialist and do fellowship which are hard to come by without being a GC holder or citizen.

So you know, when you rant about it, I am feeling exactly the same as you. We have lots of engineers from India in our town which are employed by 2 companies here. Most of them have come recently in last 2 years on L1A and then went on getting GC on EB1C. I don't have anything against these people because they are simply taking advantage of the loophole in the system, but I feel disappointed. That is why, I have also decided to make a career move next year. I am going to start looking for jobs or fellowships in other places. May be I will get less money and less comfortable life but at least I will be happy. Just like you, I don't keep talking with my wife about this because she gets sad also but then it affects me greatly. So I try to avoid talking about it at home.

Jonty

I think it is worthwhile that you try and create a pressure group of physicians that can lobby to exempt doctors from country quota or at least create special quota for them.

Given how bad shortage the country has of doctors - I think you may get good traction.

[qesehmk]

With EAD - same similar is not required. But when you get GC - around that time USCIS may ask you if you have a job offer in same / similar.

You can use any prior PD (EB FB EB1 EB2 etc etc) for any future GC application.

p.s. - It is a great lesson to not hold career hostage to GC. I am sure you would do well in future. GC will come when it will.

pps - If it is any consolation - one of my close friends got 2360 on GRE and 790 (!!!) on GMAT. Worked for bell labs for a while. But he had to wait 1997-2011 to get a GC. As if this was not enough - his wife who could've gotten GC on her parents application - was aged out and thus her wait was even longer than his.

I honestly don't know where to post this. My PD is May 18, 2009. This year I resubmitted the medicals. Looking back it looks like I had to do this only to keep my application alive. I have bachelors from IIT, Masters from a top 10 school, fully funded with a paid research assistant position, a GRE of 2350 from the good old days. Was banking on the GC to move to a senior level for the past several years (hindsight a big mistake). Did everything right and stuck to the law. While waiting, I am getting an MBA from a top school (exec-MBA). I am about to graduate from this program and some firms have expressed interest in hiring me contingent on me having a GC by the time I join them of course. Now that dream is dead.

I think I have wasted too many opportunities just waiting on this elusive GC. I have an EAD which I have not used so far. The questions I have for gurus:

1. If I use the EAD do I have to stick to a similar job/industry? Will I lose my PD and may be the opportunity to file for H1B in the future?
2. If I switch to a different industry and let's say the new firm I join files for H1B, and a new PERM, can I port my previous date to this new PERM for a different job profile/industry?

Waited too long to realize that I have to move on to a different path. But the gut-wrenching feeling that I get every time I see the likes that Sports and others have mentioned is getting tough to overcome. Any feedback is much appreciated.

[nbk1976]

Every one wants to take the shortest and quickest route to get the GC done. You may complain loudly about EB1 abuse, but what about EB2 abuse? Most Indians in EB2 are tech workers who need no more than a bachelor's degree to do their job. The fact that many have a master's degree is not a reason in and of itself to seek EB2. The job must require an advanced degree.

Smart lawyers and HR are able to word the job requirements as to satisfy USCIS for an EB2 visa. Is that not abuse of EB2?

I am in a field where a PhD is needed to do the job and to get promoted. This qualifies well under EB2. Had I been a senior researcher and not a recent graduate, I could have sought EB1, but I can't. I am stuck in the same line as thousands of folks who do their job that need no more than a basic undergrad technology qualification.

All is fair in love, war, and it would seem also in the the GC process. There is no need to complain loudly about Eb1 "abuse" or porting from Eb3 to Eb2.

[Jagan01]

Every one wants to take the shortest and quickest route to get the GC done. You may complain loudly about EB1 abuse, but what about EB2 abuse? Most Indians in EB2 are tech workers who need no more than a bachelor's degree to do their job. The fact that many have a master's degree is not a reason in and of itself to seek EB2. The job must require an advanced degree.

Smart lawyers and HR are able to word the job requirements as to satisfy USCIS for an EB2 visa. Is that not abuse of EB2?

I am in a field where a PhD is needed to do the job and to get promoted. This qualifies well under EB2. Had I been a senior researcher and not a recent graduate, I could have sought EB1, but I can't. I am stuck in the same line as thousands of folks who do their job that need no more than a basic undergrad technology qualification.

All is fair in love, war, and it would seem also in the the GC process. There is no need to complain loudly about Eb1 "abuse" or porting from Eb3 to Eb2.
1. PERM has been in place for EB2/EB3 to check for irregularities. Why is it not in place for EB1C.
2. We can complain as loud as we want and none of use require YOUR permission.
3. You feel there are irregularities in EB2 then please go ahead and raise concern about it. Please suggest steps to check those irregularities. If you do not have proposal to improve the system then it just means that your inputs are useless.
4. The following can be steps to check EB1C abuse:
4.A Have salary checks just like EB2 and EB3 are required to be above the PWD.
4.B Introduce PERM requirement so that the requirements for the job can be validated.

4.A will by itself knock out half of the EB1C India applicants.

Personally, I do have EAD and really have stopped raising concerns about EB1C abuse. Frankly any change introduced now is not going to affect my case. For the sake of all 2010/2011/2012 EB2I filers, they need to raise concern about EB1C abuse. That is their only way to find justice.

[nbk1976]

My point was merely this: while EB2 people complain about EB1 and EB3-to-EB2-porters, they fail to see that many of them are doing jobs that ought to be under EB3, but have found novel ways to file under EB2.

For example, a "System's Architect" sounds fancy, but no more than a good undergrad degree (and work experience) is needed to become a "system's architect". There is no need to have a PhD or even a master's degree.

USCIS is aware of the flaws and abuses: they won't move unless Congress comes down on them.

[Jagan01]

My point was merely this: while EB2 people complain about EB1 and EB3-to-EB2-porters, they fail to see that many of them are doing jobs that ought to be under EB3, but have found novel ways to file under EB2.

For example, a "System's Architect" sounds fancy, but no more than a good undergrad degree (and work experience) is needed to become a "system's architect". There is no need to have a PhD or even a master's degree.

USCIS is aware of the flaws and abuses: they won't move unless Congress comes down on them.
There are PWD checks in place which will translate to the fact that EB2 PWD is more than EB3 PWD. So eb2 qualifying applicant has to earn more than the eb3 applicant. No company will pay you higher salary if you are not deserving.

Many of these fraud eb1c India applicants earn less than eb3. Why so ? It is because they are fraud and no one will give them the money. Just a PWD check is all that is needed.

And your reply says that you do not have a solution for whatever eb2 misuse you are talking about. Simply put you don't have a solution and may be it's because you don't have a real problem.

[Raj0687]

Sign it if you think its worth...
http://www.petition2congress.com/6398/stop-eb1-c-abuse-fraudulent-filing/

[qesehmk]

It's everybody's choice what they support. But I think it is unbecoming of anybody to complain about fellow immigrants and their qualifications.

Even if somebody is diploma holder and if s/he fits EB1C definition - that is not fraud. You are welcome to go back to India - spend 1 year as a manager and try your luck among millions people to come to US as manager and have your company file EB1C for you.

I fail to understand why people think themselves superior because they went to college A B or C. At the end of the day - formal education is a poor indicator of career success.

[cool_dude]

Decided to start EB3 perm as backup...Loosing hope on EB2 2011 will be current by 2020..

[mesan123]

Very well said Q... Why to cry on others happiness.. Just bcoz we are waiting doesnot mean others do not deserve it...
It's everybody's choice what they support. But I think it is unbecoming of anybody to complain about fellow immigrants and their qualifications.

Even if somebody is diploma holder and if s/he fits EB1C definition - that is not fraud. You are welcome to go back to India - spend 1 year as a manager and try your luck among millions people to come to US as manager and have your company file EB1C for you.

I fail to understand why people think themselves superior because they went to college A B or C. At the end of the day - formal education is a poor indicator of career success.

[qesehmk]

Thanks Mesan. EB-23-I GC has really become an unimaginable pain. I can understand why people sometimes feel frustrated with EB1C. I am just trying to help them see another perspective ..

Sorry Raj - I didn't mean to offend you or anything.

Very well said Q... Why to cry on others happiness.. Just bcoz we are waiting doesnot mean others do not deserve it...

[karthiksubbu]

The last post on this thread was in Oct 2015. Well, more than a year has passed by, Happy New Year 2017!!

Interestingly the number of EB1I filings have grown exponentially, defying the logic that there could be as many veterans with decades-long experiences to qualify under this category. This category is busting at the seams, and growing out to be more than just a legal loophole. I agree with you on your quote "why cry on others' happiness", however battle cry is on the rise for EB1C abuse. Time will tell, as always!!

[Ramsen]

The last post on this thread was in Oct 2015. Well, more than a year has passed by, Happy New Year 2017!!

Interestingly the number of EB1I filings have grown exponentially, defying the logic that there could be as many veterans with decades-long experiences to qualify under this category. This category is busting at the seams, and growing out to be more than just a legal loophole. I agree with you on your quote "why cry on others' happiness", however battle cry is on the rise for EB1C abuse. Time will tell, as always!!

I do not think Eb1C abuse will sell seperately. The entire H1b,L1 and also EB1C abuses need to be addressed to have sensible legal immigration program. But every agenda will have for and against groups the regulators have to come up with a suitable solution to overcome those.

[feedmyback]

Not sure anyone observed. The EB1C numbers increased worldwide. It is not just India. Based on the latest released pending inventory, overall EB1C has increased a lot. Not sure how much of it can be attributed to EB1C abuse by Indian companies. Bottom line is any petitions and voice against just EB1C abuse is a hard sell and will go nowhere.

[iatiam]

Thanks Spectator

So, the spillover can only be horizontal from EB2 itself and there is no chance of spillover from EB1 looking at the way things are going on right now.

Based on your forecast when do you see my PD August 21, 2009 being current? I NOW know that without SO, my date won’t be current. The reason I ask is I follow Trackitt and the analysis is that my date would be current anywhere from March 2019- September 2019

Also these GC forecasting websites

http://www.mygcvisa.com/calculator/default.aspx?n=reset

https://www.myprioritydate.com

Canada,

Spec may or may not give his prediction. But from our side we need to do some thing to make sure the EB2 and EB1 quotas are rightly allocated. Watchout for EB1C fraud all around you - it mostly comes from IT companies who bring people from India and claim that they are multinational managers. If you see such cases, point them to USCIS. Use social media like Facebook and Twitter. Bring them to the notice of authorities as well as others who oppose visa abuse. Just some pointers - USCIS H1B abuse email ID, Sara Blackwell who is an attorney who defends the American workers etc.

Once enough of such cases are brought to attention, EB2 and EB1 will get the quota it rightly deserves.

Iatiam