EB5-Category-Discussion

[TeddyKoochu]

Acknowledgement - OH Law firm.
(http://www.immigration-law.com/Canada.html)

10/16/2010: Striking Growth of Immigration Through EB-5 Immigrant Investor Program

On October 14, 2010, the USCIS hosted a stakeholder session for their participation either in person or telephone, discussing the state of EB-5 Immigrant Investor Program. The Presentation which served as a guide for discussion at the meeting shows striking and surprisingly rapid increase in green card applications through investment in this couuntry, which is very contrasted with the immigration opportunities through employment which has been more or less stalled because of the EB-2 and EB-3 visa number retrogression and lack of political leaders' interest in reforming the entire employment-based immigration system. The agency will release the executive summary of the discussion in the future which will give additional information on the program and policy of EB-5 program. Read on.

[compassion111]

http://finance.yahoo.com/career-work/article/111069/citizenship-for-sale?sec=topStories&pos=3&asset=&ccode=

EB5 stats for FY-2010 is 1271 / 10000. Is it early to conclude that Estimated 8K VISA to Fall Up from EB5-->EB1 and Possibly EB2.

Unfortunately, the EB5 program has never come close to maxing out. According to U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services, in 2009, just 1,028 people applied for EB5 status and 966 were approved, up from 776 applications and 485 approvals in fiscal 2007. Applications and approvals rose sharply in fiscal 2010, to 1,727 and 1,271, respectively.

[TeddyKoochu]

http://finance.yahoo.com/career-work/article/111069/citizenship-for-sale?sec=topStories&pos=3&asset=&ccode=

EB5 stats for FY-2010 is 1271 / 10000. Is it early to conclude that Estimated 8K VISA to Fall Up from EB5-->EB1 and Possibly EB2.

Unfortunately, the EB5 program has never come close to maxing out. According to U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services, in 2009, just 1,028 people applied for EB5 status and 966 were approved, up from 776 applications and 485 approvals in fiscal 2007. Applications and approvals rose sharply in fiscal 2010, to 1,727 and 1,271, respectively.

Thanks, friends based on the available information now.

Total SOFAD = 26.5K (AILA Report)
EB2 I/C Cap = 6K
EB5 = 3K.

So EB1 + EB2 ROW in theory gave us 17.5K last year.

[qesehmk]

I remember vaguely that there was talk about curbing use of EB5 by chinese who have been using EB5 heavily to the extent that EB5 was being fully utilized. (This really beats me. .... isn't that good that people are willing to come to US invest and create 10 jobs per investor!)

I just am not sure if they enforced it in 2010 or were they going to do it in 2011.

Looking at the data you sent it looks like they enforced it in 2010.



I found the source of my EB5 prediction from earlier in the thread.

This document http://www.uscis.gov/USCIS/Outreach/Public%20Engagement/National%20Engagement%20Pages/2010%20Events/October%202010/EB-5%20Presentation_Quarterly%20Engagement%20Oct%2014 %202010.pdf discusses the EB5 program.

On page 9 it gives preliminary figures for FY2010 Visa Usage of 1,886. The figures quoted for previous FY match to the Visa Reports.

In FY2010 EB5 had a quota of 7.1% of 150,657 visas, which is 10,697.

If only 1,886 were actually used, then EB5 contributed 8,811 to SOFAD.

[Spectator]

I remember vaguely that there was talk about curbing use of EB5 by chinese who have been using EB5 heavily to the extent that EB5 was being fully utilized. (This really beats me. .... isn't that good that people are willing to come to US invest and create 10 jobs per investor!)

I just am not sure if they enforced it in 2010 or were they going to do it in 2011.

Looking at the data you sent it looks like they enforced it in 2010.Q,

Both the Demand Data http://www.travel.state.gov/pdf/EmploymentDemandUsedForCutOffDates.pdf and the document relating to Annual Numerical Limits FY2011 http://www.travel.state.gov/pdf/Web_Annual_Numerical_Limits.pdf mention that:


The provisions of the Chinese Student Protection Act require that the China annual limit be reduced by 1,000. A total of 300 numbers are deducted from the E3 category, and 700 from the E5 category.

So essentially, China gets ZERO EB5 visas as an initial allocation. The only ones they would be able to use would be from Fall Across within EB5.

This is nothing new and has been the case for many years. The Chinese Student Protection Act was passed in 1992. I haven't looked at it to see when these provisions actually started.

I agree, it seems very unfair, even if it doesn't really have any effect.

[gcseeker]

Since nobody has posted this,wanted to bring this to your attention.

Senator John Kerry has introduced a new startup visa bill which helps H1B's as well due to the provisions. This bill has bipartisan support and in this current anti immigration environment many other bills may fall by the wayside but this bill has a strong chance of passing due to appealing to the pro business attitude of the Republicans and not hurting the union's attitude of the democrats. Obama is also keen to change his image of being anti business.

http://techcrunch.com/2011/03/14/finally-a-startup-visa-that-works/

http://in.finance.yahoo.com/news/US-start-visa-bill-boost-ians-3069398975.html

This might give incentive to many to try their hand at Entrepreneurship and also might impact the spillover from the EB5 investory category...Unfortunately in a bad way...

http://blogs.wsj.com/in-charge/2011/03/15/kerry-lugar-re-start-start-up-visa/

"Rather than boost the annual allotment of immigrant visas, the StartUp visa taps into the unused portion of existing EB-5 visas, which offer a green card to foreign nationals who invest $1 million into a U.S. business that creates 10 new jobs. In 2009, only 4,191 of 9,940 EB-5 visas were issued."

EB5 spillover will be reduced to EB1 due to unused numbers being taken away by this new visa....

Also Sen Johny Kerry has a lot of weight and this bill has a good chance of passing.

Hope for the best.

[veni001]

Since nobody has posted this,wanted to bring this to your attention.

Senator John Kerry has introduced a new startup visa bill which helps H1B's as well due to the provisions. This bill has bipartisan support and in this current anti immigration environment many other bills may fall by the wayside but this bill has a strong chance of passing due to appealing to the pro business attitude of the Republicans and not hurting the union's attitude of the democrats. Obama is also keen to change his image of being anti business.

http://techcrunch.com/2011/03/14/finally-a-startup-visa-that-works/

http://in.finance.yahoo.com/news/US-start-visa-bill-boost-ians-3069398975.html

This might give incentive to many to try their hand at Entrepreneurship and also might impact the spillover from the EB5 investory category...Unfortunately in a bad way...

http://blogs.wsj.com/in-charge/2011/03/15/kerry-lugar-re-start-start-up-visa/

"Rather than boost the annual allotment of immigrant visas, the StartUp visa taps into the unused portion of existing EB-5 visas, which offer a green card to foreign nationals who invest $1 million into a U.S. business that creates 10 new jobs. In 2009, only 4,191 of 9,940 EB-5 visas were issued."

EB5 spillover will be reduced to EB1 due to unused numbers being taken away by this new visa....

Also Sen Johny Kerry has a lot of weight and this bill has a good chance of passing.

Hope for the best.

I think it is going to be tough for any kind of immigration related bill to pass in the current political situation.

[qesehmk]

Sorry ... have been out of pocket for quite a while. Hence the delay ...

This bill seems fairly innocuous and may actually get passed. But this does nothing for 99% of those in queue. A good one though as people like Sanjay Mavinkurve (http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=2&ved=0CB8QFjAB&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.nytimes.com%2F2009%2F04%2F12% 2Fbusiness%2F12immig.html&ei=0WiDTeXiKYb2tgPBzJHwAQ&usg=AFQjCNGye15lbN2GlltMiSjMPQopLWHyaA&sig2=zmjYQiZfXwynuMcCZ1IJ6A) wouldn't have to leave.


Since nobody has posted this,wanted to bring this to your attention.

Senator John Kerry has introduced a new startup visa bill which helps H1B's as well due to the provisions. This bill has bipartisan support and in this current anti immigration environment many other bills may fall by the wayside but this bill has a strong chance of passing due to appealing to the pro business attitude of the Republicans and not hurting the union's attitude of the democrats. Obama is also keen to change his image of being anti business.

http://techcrunch.com/2011/03/14/finally-a-startup-visa-that-works/

http://in.finance.yahoo.com/news/US-start-visa-bill-boost-ians-3069398975.html

This might give incentive to many to try their hand at Entrepreneurship and also might impact the spillover from the EB5 investory category...Unfortunately in a bad way...

http://blogs.wsj.com/in-charge/2011/03/15/kerry-lugar-re-start-start-up-visa/

"Rather than boost the annual allotment of immigrant visas, the StartUp visa taps into the unused portion of existing EB-5 visas, which offer a green card to foreign nationals who invest $1 million into a U.S. business that creates 10 new jobs. In 2009, only 4,191 of 9,940 EB-5 visas were issued."

EB5 spillover will be reduced to EB1 due to unused numbers being taken away by this new visa....

Also Sen Johny Kerry has a lot of weight and this bill has a good chance of passing.

Hope for the best.

[shaumack]

If this bill passes it would reduce the spillover from EB5.[/

We should not forget that EB5 is still a pilot program. These visa numbers can disappear any time. I think recently a bill has been proposed in House to make it a permanent program. If we continue to see only use of 2000-3000 visas every year with EB5, it can become little difficult to justify this program. Introducing EB6 visa will atleast help in justify this program. With EB5 and EB6 visa atleast we can expect to get some 1000-2000 or more visa numbers every year towards spillover. As mentioned on one of the website, investment involved with this program is so low that there is a good chance that this program could be abused. But good thing is that it has a very strong requirement on type of investors who can invest in your startup.


P.S : I do not want to offend anyone but I am glad that Bangladesh lost this morning. Some relieve for Indian fans. Though it was unlikely that we would not have qualified, but I hate seeing us struggling everytime to qualify for next round. Let's see who will we play. I would prefer NZ but how things are going with AUS vs PAK, we might end up playing Australia. If we lose to WI than SL. Fingers crossed. Hopefully we can atleast win WC for Sachin.:)

[tanu_75]

Guys

I wouldn't do it without trusting the source. The person talked directly to CO and gave this info.

I usually dont like to engage in rumours. But this is NOT a rumor. This came directly to me and I have every reason to believe the source. Now whether CO misled the source ... we will see !

All I can say is, here we go again. Anyway, if it does move by a year, at least it'll help give a number on PWMB and fine tune the predictions for the end-year game. Unbelievable that the dates haven't moved beyond 2007, they should at least let people file 485. I personally don't care about the GC as much as I care about changing jobs without hassle, have a career and being able to invest, buy a house etc.

[skpanda]

All I can say is, here we go again. Anyway, if it does move by a year, at least it'll help give a number on PWMB and fine tune the predictions for the end-year game. Unbelievable that the dates haven't moved beyond 2007, they should at least let people file 485. I personally don't care about the GC as much as I care about changing jobs without hassle, have a career and being able to invest, buy a house etc.

Not to deviate from the topic... But just curious. Why do you need to wait for 485 or EAD to buy house? I know people on H1B and own a house.

[jackbrown_890]

I agree with you. (I know this is not the topic of this thread but since someone has started this issue I am going to continue here)
also, I don't even see any big impact of this kind of start-up visa on US economy in NEAR future. I understand they want to use start up visa to create more jobs for US economy but I think most of the immigrants will start up a company after getting a GC, not start a company to get a GC (at least in near future since the US economic recovery is still fragile, i wouldn't want to invest in US if i have cash on hand). EB community needs some short term fix along with some long term fix.
I am hoping this is a start and they will do more in coming months to help EB immigrant Community.


ssvp22,

I will say with 99.99999% certainty that these will be treated exactly the same as any other EB2, whether it be an EB2 sponsored by a start-up company or a self petitioned NIW.

A law change is required to create a new category, add visas or exempt anything from numerical limits of any kind, be it the overall numbers or the per Country limits. That is beyond the powers of USCIS.

This is just clarification that entrepreneurs may apply under EB2. Unless they are applying under Exceptional Ability, the need for an Advanced Degree or equivalent is the same.

Call me cynical, but I think the announcement has more to do with



and the subject being the flavor of the month, than any real attempt to make things any better for anyone.

DHS just wants to look good and suck up to the President.

[nishant2200]

I agree there is increased chatter about it.

http://mobile.latimes.com/p.p?m=b&a=rp&id=796338&postId=796338&postUserId=7&sessionToken=&catId=5217&curAbsIndex=1&resultsUrl=DID%3D6%26DFCL%3D1000%26DSB%3Drank%2523 desc%26DBFQ%3DuserId%253A7%26DL.w%3D%26DL.d%3D10%2 6DQ%3DsectionId%253A5217%26DPS%3D0%26DPL%3D3have

this is an article in LA times.

My personal feeling is this is totally stupid approach to solving jobs problem. 1 million or 500,000 is really not much. Apple could if invest the entire 10k EB5 quota :)

The type of investors I do see coming in using this route, in current state of economy, is those who want a better quality of life in their eco-system, or those who believe, it's good for their kids future.


Another similar Story from Yahoo finance, all these guys will also come in EB5 eventually!

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Top-of-Chinese-wealthys-wish-apf-3316521730.html?x=0&sec=topStories&pos=8&asset=&ccode=

[ssvp22]

I agree there is increased chatter about it.

http://mobile.latimes.com/p.p?m=b&a=rp&id=796338&postId=796338&postUserId=7&sessionToken=&catId=5217&curAbsIndex=1&resultsUrl=DID%3D6%26DFCL%3D1000%26DSB%3Drank%2523 desc%26DBFQ%3DuserId%253A7%26DL.w%3D%26DL.d%3D10%2 6DQ%3DsectionId%253A5217%26DPS%3D0%26DPL%3D3have

this is an article in LA times.

My personal feeling is this is totally stupid approach to solving jobs problem. 1 million or 500,000 is really not much. Apple could if invest the entire 10k EB5 quota :)

The type of investors I do see coming in using this route, in current state of economy, is those who want a better quality of life in their eco-system, or those who believe, it's good for their kids future.

No person who has earned his money the hard way will spend 500k for a GC. If you can make 500k in a 3rd world country, you are already a king there. So, why would you come here and become a nobody. Also the GC security for kids concept does not fly since you really need to be here for 5 years(at least most of the days per year) to get the citizenship. Make that 7 years if you include the complete process. Besides, that after becoming a citizen of US, you cannot buy property in your own country(true for people of India), and might even have to sell existing property, shares and what not. So, all the run about for what?

Only family i am aware of having gone through the EB5 program earned their money through real estate boom in India, which was more about timing, than any skill or hard work. So, as you can guess, since they got their money by fluke, they are running clueless for the next opportunity, since hard work to earn 500k is something they dont really know.

[ssvp22]

But many people have made and yet making surplus money in real estate boom. They will surely like to utilize this opportunity.

You are discounting the 7 years it takes to be a citizen from start to finish. Thats a big deterrent. Besides that, get a GC and do what? Just stick around? Let's say you are from China. So, obviously, you dont know english. Which means you cant do much..... We can keep going on and on about this.

I think the complete concept of EB5 is totally screwed up. No hard working soul will plan to move here just for the heck of it and that too by parting with the hard earned money to pay people whom you dont understand culturally. Besides that, there is always a chance that you can loose the money you invest. Thats a big risk.

[qesehmk]

If you look at USCIS dashboard for I526 - only 1200 or so have been completed through Jun 2011, same as prior year. So of the trend continues, EB5 consumption this year shouldn't exceed prior year. But having said that, the pending inventory has jumped to 2500, thereby indeed confirming that somehow many more people have started taking advantage of EB5 program.

So ... what does this mean to EB2IC? Well not such a great news unfortunately. It could potentially mean much less SOFAD from EB5 (may be we could expect only 2-3K from EB5 next year).


You are discounting the 7 years it takes to be a citizen from start to finish. Thats a big deterrent. Besides that, get a GC and do what? Just stick around? Let's say you are from China. So, obviously, you dont know english. Which means you cant do much..... We can keep going on and on about this.

I think the complete concept of EB5 is totally screwed up. No hard working soul will plan to move here just for the heck of it and that too by parting with the hard earned money to pay people whom you dont understand culturally. Besides that, there is always a chance that you can loose the money you invest. Thats a big risk.

[qblogfan]

Some rich people in China want to have a less crowded environment and some want to have a taste of the western culture and many of them moved to Canada in 1990s. But recently many of them are moving to the US, not a big percentage, but the total number is not small.

Recently I saw some Chinese news that some US agencies are promoting this EB5 program in many cities in China. I think maybe more of them will move here in the future several years. 500k is nothing to these rich people.

I hope the EB5 number will keep low and we can get more spillover.


You are discounting the 7 years it takes to be a citizen from start to finish. Thats a big deterrent. Besides that, get a GC and do what? Just stick around? Let's say you are from China. So, obviously, you dont know english. Which means you cant do much..... We can keep going on and on about this.

I think the complete concept of EB5 is totally screwed up. No hard working soul will plan to move here just for the heck of it and that too by parting with the hard earned money to pay people whom you dont understand culturally. Besides that, there is always a chance that you can loose the money you invest. Thats a big risk.

[veni001]

I agree there is increased chatter about it.

http://mobile.latimes.com/p.p?m=b&a=rp&id=796338&postId=796338&postUserId=7&sessionToken=&catId=5217&curAbsIndex=1&resultsUrl=DID%3D6%26DFCL%3D1000%26DSB%3Drank%2523 desc%26DBFQ%3DuserId%253A7%26DL.w%3D%26DL.d%3D10%2 6DQ%3DsectionId%253A5217%26DPS%3D0%26DPL%3D3have

this is an article in LA times.

My personal feeling is this is totally stupid approach to solving jobs problem. 1 million or 500,000 is really not much. Apple could if invest the entire 10k EB5 quota :)

The type of investors I do see coming in using this route, in current state of economy, is those who want a better quality of life in their eco-system, or those who believe, it's good for their kids future.



2. The EB5 quota for china next year is zero. It is a sad news for Chinese EB5 guys ... but good news for EB2IC since it virtually ensures that the EB5 spillover next year could be similar to this year. However there is a caveat here - EB5C can still get the spillover May 2012 onwards. But the idosyncracy that makes EB5C quota ZERO based on some chinese students protection act (why would any chinese stundets go for EB5 directly is beyond me and hence the reduction of EB5C to ZERO doesn't make sense) tells us that VO will not necessarily honor spillover to EB5C either. Making it ZERO shows clear bias against stopping chinese EB5 immigrants. Again ... bad news for them but good news for EB2IC.

Q,
Based on the above article nishant posted and FY2010 data China used about 68% of EB5 visas(issued).

If EB5C is not getting any numbers means FY2012 should expect more spillover from EB5 compared to FY2011?

[veni001]

I agree there is increased chatter about it.

http://mobile.latimes.com/p.p?m=b&a=rp&id=796338&postId=796338&postUserId=7&sessionToken=&catId=5217&curAbsIndex=1&resultsUrl=DID%3D6%26DFCL%3D1000%26DSB%3Drank%2523 desc%26DBFQ%3DuserId%253A7%26DL.w%3D%26DL.d%3D10%2 6DQ%3DsectionId%253A5217%26DPS%3D0%26DPL%3D3have

this is an article in LA times.

My personal feeling is this is totally stupid approach to solving jobs problem. 1 million or 500,000 is really not much. Apple could if invest the entire 10k EB5 quota :)

The type of investors I do see coming in using this route, in current state of economy, is those who want a better quality of life in their eco-system, or those who believe, it's good for their kids future.


Q,
Based on the above article nishant posted and FY2010 data China used about 68% of EB5 visas(issued).

If EB5C is not getting any numbers means FY2012 should expect more spillover from EB5 compared to FY2011?



That may not be true for year 2012 for a couple of reasons (and Teddy already talked about it. ... so I am just explaining it in simpler terms).

1. 3 months movement we saw in october could very well be from 2012 quota. The fact is we don't know yet.
2. 2012 we know will have some headwinds of EB1 where the backlog of EB1 will hit us.
3. EB5 in 2012 may show some modest increase will will be headwind compared to 2011.

So the bottom line is - we may not see same sofad in 2012 as 2011. In 2011 it was around 30-35K depending on whether the October movement was for 2011 or 2012. But most of the gurus here tend to be conservative and so lets assume it was 30K for 2011. So next year because of the 3 factors mentioned above the 2012 SOFAD will be 20-25K. That explains by Teddy thinks getting into 2008 will be tough.

Q,
If EB5C is not allowed any visas for FY2012, how do you see increase in EB5 demand ?

[annareyc]

Thanks for sharing this information.
:)

[qesehmk]

Veni

Somehow i totally missed this post of yours. When I wrote that - I was thinking of all the proactive EB5 measures USCIS taking as well as the increasing EB5 receipts then.


Q,
If EB5C is not allowed any visas for FY2012, how do you see increase in EB5 demand ?

[civilengineer]

The hazards of EB-5 for immigrants.
http://www.vox.com/2014/10/10/6952055/eb5-visa-south-dakota-scandal-rounds-pay-for-green-card-cost

[YTeleven]

Article: Update on the China EB-5 Market By H. Ronald Klasko (http://discuss.ilw.com/content.php?3574-Article-Update-on-the-China-EB-5-Market-By-H-Ronald-Klasko)

[Spectator]

An interesting set of slides (https://s3.amazonaws.com/v3-app_crowdc/assets/events/SEBrBSx6Ex/activities/5._VISA_Retrogression_with_Charles_Oppenheim.origi nal.1414608221.pdf?utm_source=Weekly+Report+11%2F7&utm_campaign=Weekly+Report+9-16&utm_medium=email) presented by CO about EB5 from this article (https://iiusa.org/blog/events/conferences/current-demand-eb5-visas-lead-retrogression-fy2015-department-state-takeaways-visa-update-panel/).

It seems EB5 used 10,692 visas in FY2014. Of those, 9,228 were CP and 1,464, were AOS. That is an increase of 25% on FY2013 (8,564).

China accounted for 85.37% of the approvals. South Korea were a very distant second with 2.10%.

Retrogression back to around 2013 for EB5-China is projected to occur in the April-July 2015 timeframe.

[suninphx]

An interesting set of slides (https://s3.amazonaws.com/v3-app_crowdc/assets/events/SEBrBSx6Ex/activities/5._VISA_Retrogression_with_Charles_Oppenheim.origi nal.1414608221.pdf?utm_source=Weekly+Report+11%2F7&utm_campaign=Weekly+Report+9-16&utm_medium=email) presented by CO about EB5 from this article (https://iiusa.org/blog/events/conferences/current-demand-eb5-visas-lead-retrogression-fy2015-department-state-takeaways-visa-update-panel/).

It seems EB5 used 10,692 visas in FY2014. Of those, 9,228 were CP and 1,464, were AOS. That is an increase of 25% on FY2013 (8,564).

China accounted for 85.37% of the approvals. South Korea were a very distant second with 2.10%.

Retrogression back to around 2013 for EB5-China is projected to occur in the April-July 2015 timeframe.
Very informative. Thanks Spec!
I am glad they do not take Visas from other categories. Or do they?

[Spectator]

sun,

You are correct.

There's no mechanism for EB5 to receive additional numbers from other EB Categories during the FY. The same is also true for EB4.

[bookworm]

Wondering what the impact of china meltdown will have on EB-5 utilization & spillover. Hopefully the capital controls being placed in mainland will slow down the pace of application & give a good spillover to EB-2 in 2016.

[gten20]

Wondering what the impact of china meltdown will have on EB-5 utilization & spillover. Hopefully the capital controls being placed in mainland will slow down the pace of application & give a good spillover to EB-2 in 2016.

On the contrary it could increase. People from China would be more inclined to diversify their investments and start businesses in USA.

[bookworm]

On the contrary it could increase. People from China would be more inclined to diversify their investments and start businesses in USA.

"Qiao had his secrets. Though divorced, he and his ex-wife, Zhao Shilan, applied to immigrate to the U.S. in 2008, falsely claiming they were still married, according to a U.S. indictment that was unsealed in March. Zhao applied to a federal program that provides permanent residence for those who invest at least $500,000 in qualified projects that create jobs, along with their spouses and children. The actual source of the money for Zhao's investment isn't clear. Qiao’s lifetime earnings to that point amounted to just 1.1 million yuan, about $173,000 at today’s exchange rate, according to Chinese investigators. Zhao earned less than $32,000 while working from 1984 to 2001, investigators found. The U.S. issued them visas nonetheless, and Zhao soon moved into a four-bedroom home in the Seattle suburbs, bought for $687,450, according to property records."

Wonder if we will have visa recapture of fraudulent EB-5 visas that will be canceled due to Xi's initiative?

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-09-02/agency-seeks-chinese-fugitives