Discussion About The Consular Processing Process

[MATT2012]

Spec,

How long does it normally take for CP cases to show in demand? I know last year even before the Visa dates moved, eB2I folks with CP got notices. But what is the end to end timeframe?

I am not able to think of a reason why EB-2 I demand for fiscal years 2005 and 2006 is more than Jan inventory. Jan inventory should contain all visa applications submitted in last fiscal year for EB2I. Any thoughts?

[Spectator]

Spec,

How long does it normally take for CP cases to show in demand? I know last year even before the Visa dates moved, eB2I folks with CP got notices. But what is the end to end timeframe?

I am not able to think of a reason why EB-2 I demand for fiscal years 2005 and 2006 is more than Jan inventory. Jan inventory should contain all visa applications submitted in last fiscal year for EB2I. Any thoughts?Matt,

Annoyingly (very), I had already typed an answer to your post, only to lose it because I was logged out while composing it.

Second time lucky!

I can't answer the question with 100% certainty, but here is my understanding. Mostly that is because I have never found a definition of "Documentarily Qualified".

The Consulates report numbers to DOS each month in advance of the VB Cut Off Dates being set. Therefore the Consulates must know about the applicant for them to be included in the DD.

I believe the number forms part of the Demand Data at the time (or shortly after) the Appointment Package for Immigrant Visa Applicants (http://www.immihelp.com/immigrant-visa/appointment-package-for-immigrant-visa-applicants.html) (formerly Packet 4) is sent to the applicant.

This includes the Interview Date and Instructions on actions to be completed prior to attending the Interview such as the Medical Examination.

There is an earlier contact by NVC with the Instructions Package for Immigrant Visa Applicants (http://www.immihelp.com/immigrant-visa/instructions-for-immigrant-visa-applicants.html) (formerly Packet 3) where the intent to proceed is expressed and various biographical details, Affidavit Of Support form and Processing Fee are requested. I don't believe the applicant is included in the Demand data at this point.

Details of the renaming from Packets can be found in this DOS telegram (http://travel.state.gov/visa/laws/telegrams/telegrams_1540.html).

Details of the Consular Processing process can be found here (http://www.immihelp.com/immigrant-visa/).

It seems to take about 2 months from becoming Current to the Interview Date judging by this Sample Interview Letter (http://www.immihelp.com/immigrant-visa/sample-interview-appointment-letter-nvc.pdf) and comments that Ron Gotcher has made previously. In truth, I don't know for sure.

I hope that helps. I only profess to have a fairly basic understanding of the CP process.

I haven't had time to look into and respond to your second question.

[gc_soon]

Matt,

Annoyingly (very), I had already typed an answer to your post, only to lose it because I was logged out while composing it.

Second time lucky!

I can't answer the question with 100% certainty, but here is my understanding. Mostly that is because I have never found a definition of "Documentarily Qualified".

The Consulates report numbers to DOS each month in advance of the VB Cut Off Dates being set. Therefore the Consulates must know about the applicant for them to be included in the DD.

I believe the number forms part of the Demand Data at the time (or shortly after) the Appointment Package for Immigrant Visa Applicants (http://www.immihelp.com/immigrant-visa/appointment-package-for-immigrant-visa-applicants.html) (formerly Packet 4) is sent to the applicant.

This includes the Interview Date and Instructions on actions to be completed prior to attending the Interview such as the Medical Examination.

There is an earlier contact by NVC with the Instructions Package for Immigrant Visa Applicants (http://www.immihelp.com/immigrant-visa/instructions-for-immigrant-visa-applicants.html) (formerly Packet 3) where the intent to proceed is expressed and various biographical details, Affidavit Of Support form and Processing Fee are requested. I don't believe the applicant is included in the Demand data at this point.

Details of the renaming from Packets can be found in this DOS telegram (http://travel.state.gov/visa/laws/telegrams/telegrams_1540.html).

Details of the Consular Processing process can be found here (http://www.immihelp.com/immigrant-visa/).

It seems to take about 2 months from becoming Current to the Interview Date judging by this Sample Interview Letter (http://www.immihelp.com/immigrant-visa/sample-interview-appointment-letter-nvc.pdf) and comments that Ron Gotcher has made previously. In truth, I don't know for sure.

I hope that helps. I only profess to have a fairly basic understanding of the CP process.

I haven't had time to look into and respond to your second question.

Spec, the definition can be found here on 2nd item,
http://www.travel.state.gov/pdf/Immigrant%20Visa%20Control%20System_operation%20of .pdf

Documentarily Qualified:
The applicant has obtained all documents specified by the consular officer as sufficient to meet
the formal visa application requirements, and necessary processing procedures of the consular
office have been completed.

Also, regd
"The Consulates report numbers to DOS each month in advance of the VB Cut Off Dates being set. Therefore the Consulates must know about the applicant for them to be included in the DD."
I think it's the NVC that reports to DOS, not the consulates. I could be wrong, but that's what I vaguely remember from my online research.

[Spectator]

Spec, the definition can be found here on 2nd item,
http://www.travel.state.gov/pdf/Immigrant%20Visa%20Control%20System_operation%20of .pdf

Documentarily Qualified:
The applicant has obtained all documents specified by the consular officer as sufficient to meet the formal visa application requirements, and necessary processing procedures of the consular office have been completed.

Also, regd
"The Consulates report numbers to DOS each month in advance of the VB Cut Off Dates being set. Therefore the Consulates must know about the applicant for them to be included in the DD."
I think it's the NVC that reports to DOS, not the consulates. I could be wrong, but that's what I vaguely remember from my online research.gc_soon,

Thanks.

I've seen that definition before, but what does that sentence mean exactly in terms of the steps to obtain an Immigrant Visa? I remember now - my original attempt said definitive definition.

Yes, I agree that NVC probably sends out Appointment Letter in most cases - it varies for some specific locations. Nonetheless, I think the Consulate must know about the applicant at that stage since they have accepted the appointment slot. One bottleneck can be the number of appointments available at a particular Consulate.

Since the VO receive the CP demand from the Consulates, not NVC, the Demand data cannot incorporate a case until the Consulate reports it.

Does that make sense? I hope so.

[gc_soon]

Spec,
I believe demand comes from NVC as they know how many applicants are documentarily qualified. Consulates have certain number of slots open and NVC sends invites for that month.
I earlier contacted my consulate about our CP case and their response was - "your case is not yet received as your priority date is not current"
Also this is the NVC's response when I enquired about my status,

Immigrant visa petition <case number> is currently on a list of
completed cases awaiting the availability of visa numbers. This petition
will be eligible for an immigrant visa interview when a visa number is
available per the Department of State's Visa Bulletin.

So it seems like my documents will only reach consulate when date gets current and interview gets scehduled. Otherwise it's at NVC. Please feel free to correct me.

EDIT: Reference
http://travel.state.gov/visa/immigrants/types/types_1309.html#nvc

USCIS Sent My Immigrant Visa Petition to the NVC. Now What Happens?
If your Priority Date meets the most recent Qualifying Date, the NVC will:

Invoice you for your visa application fees
Collect your visa application and supporting documentation
Hold your visa petition until an interview can be scheduled with a consular officer at a U.S. Embassy or U.S. Consulate General abroad.
If your Priority Date DOES NOT meet the most recent Qualifying Date, the NVC will notify you and hold your petition until your Priority Date meets the most recent Qualifying Date. The Department of State updates the Qualifying Dates on a monthly basis.

[MATT2012]

Thanks Spec & GC soon,

I knew my question was tricky, considering the different sub processes involved. I was thinking from a process flow perspective. I had two reasons to ask the question.

A) At what point consular process gets converted to demand?

B) Secondly, if consular processing cases gets advance notice/ package, the approximate movement for all visa categories is known at least couple of months in advance.

I know, the topic falls in a very grey area, but I got a general idea from ur answers. Let me work on it a little from ur answers.Thanks again..


gc_soon,

Thanks.

I've seen that definition before, but what does that sentence mean exactly in terms of the steps to obtain an Immigrant Visa? I remember now - my original attempt said definitive definition.

Yes, I agree that NVC probably sends out Appointment Letter in most cases - it varies for some specific locations. Nonetheless, I think the Consulate must know about the applicant at that stage since they have accepted the appointment slot. One bottleneck can be the number of appointments available at a particular Consulate.

Since the VO receive the CP demand from the Consulates, not NVC, the Demand data cannot incorporate a case until the Consulate reports it.

Does that make sense? I hope so.

[Spectator]

Spec,
I believe demand comes from NVC as they know how many applicants are documentarily qualified. Consulates have certain number of slots open and NVC sends invites for that month.
I earlier contacted my consulate about our CP case and their response was - "your case is not yet received as your priority date is not current"
Also this is the NVC's response when I enquired about my status,

Immigrant visa petition <case number> is currently on a list of
completed cases awaiting the availability of visa numbers. This petition
will be eligible for an immigrant visa interview when a visa number is
available per the Department of State's Visa Bulletin.

So it seems like my documents will only reach consulate when date gets current and interview gets scehduled. Otherwise it's at NVC. Please feel free to correct me.

EDIT: Reference
http://travel.state.gov/visa/immigrants/types/types_1309.html#nvc

USCIS Sent My Immigrant Visa Petition to the NVC. Now What Happens?
If your Priority Date meets the most recent Qualifying Date, the NVC will:

Invoice you for your visa application fees
Collect your visa application and supporting documentation
Hold your visa petition until an interview can be scheduled with a consular officer at a U.S. Embassy or U.S. Consulate General abroad.
If your Priority Date DOES NOT meet the most recent Qualifying Date, the NVC will notify you and hold your petition until your Priority Date meets the most recent Qualifying Date. The Department of State updates the Qualifying Dates on a monthly basis.gc-soon,

I certainly wouldn't argue with your view.

NVC are in the best position to know when applicants become documentarily qualified.

Thinking about it overnight, that is probably when NVC receive all the information requested in the Instructions Package for Immigrant Visa Applicants (Packet 3).

That makes more sense, because applicants could find themselves documentarily qualified, yet unable to proceed to the final interview stage if the anticipated Cut Off Date movement didn't materialize or dates had retrogressed by the time they retuned the documents requested to become documentarily qualified.

From a previous conversation, it seems that by the time the appointment letter is sent out, the visa has already been allocated and after interview it is either used for an approval or returned in the case of a denial.

I guess I just find it odd that the THE OPERATION OF THE IMMIGRANT NUMERICAL CONTROL SYSTEM document specifically mentions consular posts and does not mention NVC at all. I think that is because I am getting hung up on a visa needing to be available, which isn't the case.

Since your case is going to be CP, you probably know better than me.

PS I am going to move this to the Consular Processing Forum later today.

[MATT2012]

Can an EB3 applicant port to EB2 using consular processing? I dont see a logical problem, I was thinking from a demand perspective!!
I am assuming based on the previous answers that all/majority of Consular processing cases for EB2I got cleared during last fiscal(upto March 2008).

gc-soon,

I certainly wouldn't argue with your view.

NVC are in the best position to know when applicants become documentarily qualified.

Thinking about it overnight, that is probably when NVC receive all the information requested in the Instructions Package for Immigrant Visa Applicants (Packet 3).

That makes more sense, because applicants could find themselves documentarily qualified, yet unable to proceed to the final interview stage if the anticipated Cut Off Date movement didn't materialize or dates had retrogressed by the time they retuned the documents requested to become documentarily qualified.

From a previous conversation, it seems that by the time the appointment letter is sent out, the visa has already been allocated and after interview it is either used for an approval or returned in the case of a denial.

I guess I just find it odd that the THE OPERATION OF THE IMMIGRANT NUMERICAL CONTROL SYSTEM document specifically mentions consular posts and does not mention NVC at all. I think that is because I am getting hung up on a visa needing to be available, which isn't the case.

Since your case is going to be CP, you probably know better than me.

PS I am going to move this to the Consular Processing Forum later today.

[Spectator]

Can an EB3 applicant port to EB2 using consular processing? I dont see a logical problem, I was thinking from a demand perspective!!
I am assuming based on the previous answers that all/majority of Consular processing cases for EB2I got cleared during last fiscal(upto March 2008).Matt, I don't see any reason why they can't, if they have a new I-140 approved under EB2 and the job offer.

CP for EB2 is very low and for EB2-I it is miniscule.

In FY2012 there were 1,398 CP cases out of 50,593 (2.76%) in all of EB2 and for EB2-I the figure was 140 out of 19,726 (0.71%).

It has been at that level for several years.

[MATT2012]

Thanks Spec, That was my take too, as I have seen those numbers. it is better to verify and get a new perspective before I conclude. As mentioned by you before, please move the messages to the consular thread. Thanks..

Matt, I don't see any reason why they can't, if they have a new I-140 approved under EB2 and the job offer.

CP for EB2 is very low and for EB2-I it is miniscule.

In FY2012 there were 1,398 CP cases out of 50,593 (2.76%) in all of EB2 and for EB2-I the figure was 140 out of 19,726 (0.71%).

It has been at that level for several years.

[gc_soon]

I think it should be possible for porting to CP.
For example, take a look at Mumbai consulate's April interview schedule. There are 4 CP interviews for EB2,
http://photos.state.gov/libraries/mumbai/395145/pereirals/**-Appointments-April%202013.pdf (category to search for is E2).

4 cases: 2 in month of march and 2 in april.

These must be porting cases, since dates have been stalled for a long time. Also, I see from forums, many people who get stuck on H1B with admin processing convert their AOS to CP.

[MATT2012]

Spec, I thought I saw a reply abt inventory vs demand. I dont see it now. Anyways here are some addtional observations.

Between October EB2I Inventory (2005-2010) and Jan Inventory (2005-2010) there are only a minor net difference. 41735 Vs. 41777. That only means USICS stacked at some place and later re-distributed. Or there were multiple I-140’s involved as priority date was not properly re-captured. February Demand data came very close to the number (41700-275) which is 41400. In March the numbers went above (42100) and in April it came back to 41600 and in May 42200. I am ignoring 2004 demand as the dates are mostly current. So there is an approximate net addition of 400 applicants between Oct/Jan inventory and May demand.

Now let us compare for the same period in in EB3I which is 2005 onwards. Between October EB3I Inventory (2005 onwards) and Jan Inventory (2005 onwards) there are net difference of 470. 21554 Vs. 21084. So it is clear that the deduction of 470 was not immediately visible in EB2 inventory which is only 30 additions. The demand data for EB3I of 21475 in November vs. 21000 in February is also very close to inventory numbers. But when it comes to demand data May EB3I for the same period is 20550. A reduction of 550 applicants. So in this fiscal there was a total reduction of 470 +550, roughly 1000 reductions in EB3.

I am not sure whether I should co-relate the additions in EB2 to the deductions in EB3. From out of the initial 470 reductions in EB3 there is very close co-relation of 400 additions. Is it possible that demand reduces faster but addition to the new category takes time? The thought does not support USICS established procedures, but just an observation

[Spectator]

Quick dumb questions:

1)The demand data shown in the USICS bulletin, is it cumulative year wise?

It show EB2 till Jan 1, 2013 as 48,750 so is this cumulative figure ?mailmvr,

Yes, the figures are cumulative.

The 48,750 for all EB2 breaks down to

Pre 2005 ---- 450
2005 -------- 750
2006 ------ 1,175
2007 ------ 5,550
2008 ----- 18,300
2009 ----- 16,525
Post 2009 - 6,000

Total ---- 48,750


2)is Demand data taken from I-140 approved count for from I485 application?

I know these question might have answered in the forum, but as a ready reference
can gurus please answer.

The Demand Data is the number of "documentarily qualified" cases reported to the Visa Office.

For AOS that is the number preadjudicated I-485 where USCIS have made a request to DOS for a visa number (and it could not be granted due to retrogression).

The definition for Consular Processed cases is a bit more vague, but is certainly no earlier than when the Fee has been paid and may (more likely) be when NVC have organized the interview.

[gc_soon]

The definition for Consular Processed cases is a bit more vague, but is certainly no earlier than when the Fee has been paid and may (more likely) be when NVC have organized the interview.

Spec,
Just a minor correction (not related to predictions). For CP cases documentarily qualified happens before interview invitation, but when NVC has received all documents. In fact, I think documentarily qualified is a pre-requisite for getting an interview invite.

[Spectator]

Spec,
Just a minor correction (not related to predictions). For CP cases documentarily qualified happens before interview invitation, but when NVC has received all documents. In fact, I think documentarily qualified is a pre-requisite for getting an interview invite.gc_soon,

I agree with you that is the correct definition.

What is not so clear (from any documentation) is exactly when that is reported to DOS as demand. That seems to be when the Consulate submits their monthly list by Category, Country and PD to the Visa Office. It isn't entirely clear when NVC communicates that to the Consulate. It must be a finite time after the applicant has submitted the documents to NVC and they have determined they are acceptable.

Hence my rather vague description.

[gc_soon]

gc_soon,

I agree with you that is the correct definition.

What is not so clear (from any documentation) is exactly when that is reported to DOS as demand. That seems to be when the Consulate submits their monthly list by Category, Country and PD to the Visa Office. It isn't entirely clear when NVC communicates that to the Consulate. It must be a finite time after the applicant has submitted the documents to NVC and they have determined they are acceptable.

Hence my rather vague description.

Actually I'm not fully clear on the process as you describe it. not to digress(moderators please feel free to move this conversation from the thread), but from my understanding(my case is CP) consulate doesn't know anything about the person until NVC forwards the information to the consulate. Consulate I guess would send the number of available interview spots for different categories with PDs being current and NVC would schedule interviews based on that and forward the documents(physical originals) to the consulate. As for when DOS knows about demand, since NVC knows the person is documentarily qualified after he submits the documents, NVC could inform the DOS right?

[Spectator]

Actually I'm not fully clear on the process as you describe it. not to digress(moderators please feel free to move this conversation from the thread), but from my understanding(my case is CP) consulate doesn't know anything about the person until NVC forwards the information to the consulate. Consulate I guess would send the number of available interview spots for different categories with PDs being current and NVC would schedule interviews based on that and forward the documents(physical originals) to the consulate. As for when DOS knows about demand, since NVC knows the person is documentarily qualified after he submits the documents, NVC could inform the DOS right?gc_soon,

I would agree that would make a lot of sense, IF that was what happened.

I base my comments on the DOS explanation of the process in THE OPERATION OF THE IMMIGRANT NUMERICAL CONTROL SYSTEM (http://www.travel.state.gov/pdf/Immigrant%20Visa%20Control%20System_operation%20of .pdf) document.

In that, it says:


1. HOW THE SYSTEM OPERATES:

At the beginning of each month, the Visa Office (VO) receives a report from each consular post listing totals of documentarily qualified immigrant visa applicants in categories subject to numerical limitation. Cases are grouped by foreign state chargeability/preference/priority date. No names are reported. During the first week of each month, this documentarily qualified demand is tabulated.

No mention of NVC at all. Given how important NVC is to the CP process, I find it hard to believe they would not be mentioned if they actually supplied the information to the Visa Office rather than the individual Consular Posts.

Possibly I am being too literal.

I really would like to understand the exact details of the Consular Process with more clarity than the current documentation provides.

[gc_soon]

Maybe the document is old. Since earlier CP cases was directly handled by consulates I believe(could be wrong on that). But now mostly NVC manages CP process including getting documents and sending interview invite, so NVC would be a better organization than consulates to notify DOS about demand. Just my guess.

[vizcard]

Maybe the document is old. Since earlier CP cases was directly handled by consulates I believe(could be wrong on that). But now mostly NVC manages CP process including getting documents and sending interview invite, so NVC would be a better organization than consulates to notify DOS about demand. Just my guess.

Maybe it has something to do with the fact that the NVC is a contractor....atleast I think it is

[gc_soon]

Maybe it has something to do with the fact that the NVC is a contractor....atleast I think it is

Vizcard,
Not sure if they are a contractor, but NVC(National Visa center) is a govt organization just like USCIS. I think NVC is also the who does the Diversity GC lottery.

[Spectator]

Maybe the document is old. Since earlier CP cases was directly handled by consulates I believe(could be wrong on that). But now mostly NVC manages CP process including getting documents and sending interview invite, so NVC would be a better organization than consulates to notify DOS about demand. Just my guess.gc_soon,

The document was created in 2010 and was authored by Charles Oppenheim. I don't think the process has changed since then.

The document defines "Documentarily Qualified" as:


Documentarily Qualified:

The applicant has obtained all documents specified by the consular officer as sufficient to meet the formal visa application requirements, and necessary processing procedures of the consular office have been completed.

The first part would certainly be handled by NVC, but the second part implies there are administrative tasks for the Consular Post to complete before the case is considered "Documentarily Qualified". It would therefore make sense that the Consular Posts report their readiness to the VO directly, rather than NVC.

[GCkaLADDU]

Gurus

Need some help.

Mine is a CP case as I was out of States at the time of I-140 filing. I am currently in States on a non-immigrant visa and it seems that switching to AOS would be a better option for me. However, i am not sure when would i be eligible to file an I-485. What should be my course of action once I get a notification for submission of documents?

Thanks

[Sydneycl]

it's one of the gray ares that need caution

[qesehmk]

Gurus

Need some help.

Mine is a CP case as I was out of States at the time of I-140 filing. I am currently in States on a non-immigrant visa and it seems that switching to AOS would be a better option for me. However, i am not sure when would i be eligible to file an I-485. What should be my course of action once I get a notification for submission of documents?

Thanks
Legally it is ok as long as you can maintain a valid status in US between now and AOS filing. The question is how much time it will be from now till then and whether you can maintain lawful presence.