Discussion On The Politics of Immigration Reform (Comprehensive Or Otherwise)

[qesehmk]

gcq - kudos to you for saying this. This is exactly what I have always felt but never said. You said it very very well. If I were to form an organization in future - this is precisely the kind of things we should be fighting for. Government agencies execution is ultimately done by people who have their own biases which then gets reflected in implementing the country's laws. It may or may not always have basis ... but the receiving party - unless organized and represented well - has no way to fight back.

While McKinsey may have better talent .... the fact is employer - employee - client relationship at McKinsey or IBM is fundamentally no different than wipro or infosys.

Guess where you went wrong. USCIS itself is legally wrong in issuing the Jan-08 memo which you are referring to. That memo is illegal as it goes against the existing laws of the country. There is no separate definition of "employer-employee" for USCIS. Whatever that definition is, it has to come from the common law. If that employer-employee definition was correct not a single American company should be able to operate that model. Bottom line USICS memo is illegal.

Why is still USCIS able to use that memo against consulting companies.

1. These companies don't have the guts and file a lawsuit. They filed one, but didn't follow it up.
2. Democrats ( pro-union) in power (read Obama, Durbin). These pro-union democrats with anti-immigrant Grassley and co played behind the scenes.

Regarding consulting companies vs staffing companies, tell me what difference these companies have.

Companies like Deloitte and Bearing Point send their consultants to client place. The do the work, charge the client, company gets a cut, employee gets a cut.
Staffing companies -- ditto
Only difference is pay rate. Top consulting companies charge and pay exorbitant rates whereas staffing companies don't. Staffing companies are low end consulting companies.

One other category I can think of is companies like TCS, Infosys that grabs project and get their employees do it at their location or client location. How are they any different ?
Against the argument that "entire staffing/consulting companies should be eliminated because of some bad players", it is like saying marriage should be banned because some spouses ill-treat their counter parts.

[idiotic]

I feel that CIR will affect profitability of Indian companies & desi consultants as they will be forced to hire a certain percentage of americans (who won't work for lesser wages) to continue the business. This will only affect profitability of these companies and they have to find better ways of offsetting this increased cost of doing business. From employees perspective, it should still be same.

[vizcard]

Guess where you went wrong. USCIS itself is legally wrong in issuing the Jan-08 memo which you are referring to. That memo is illegal as it goes against the existing laws of the country. There is no separate definition of "employer-employee" for USCIS. Whatever that definition is, it has to come from the common law. If that employer-employee definition was correct not a single American company should be able to operate that model. Bottom line USICS memo is illegal.

Why is still USCIS able to use that memo against consulting companies.

1. These companies don't have the guts and file a lawsuit. They filed one, but didn't follow it up.
2. Democrats ( pro-union) in power (read Obama, Durbin). These pro-union democrats with anti-immigrant Grassley and co played behind the scenes.

Regarding consulting companies vs staffing companies, tell me what difference these companies have.

Companies like Deloitte and Bearing Point send their consultants to client place. The do the work, charge the client, company gets a cut, employee gets a cut.
Staffing companies -- ditto
Only difference is pay rate. Top consulting companies charge and pay exorbitant rates whereas staffing companies don't. Staffing companies are low end consulting companies.

One other category I can think of is companies like TCS, Infosys that grabs project and get their employees do it at their location or client location. How are they any different ?
Against the argument that "entire staffing/consulting companies should be eliminated because of some bad players", it is like saying marriage should be banned because some spouses ill-treat their counter parts.

Difference between staffing companies and true consulting companies.

Consulting firms model
- charge clients a rate and pay the employee a fixed salary regardless of the rate charged to the client. Employees don't get a "cut". So if Deloitte wants to do a project for free, the employee still gets paid
- Also, when NOT on a project, the employee still gets paid
- Deloitte partners oversee and review the employees project work. They are legally and criminally liable for damages if the work results in issues (look at the recent news about KPMG and Skechers)

Staffing companies
- charge clients a rate and pay the employee a rate less their "commission".
- when the employee is not on a project, the employee does not get paid at all.
- the client and not the staffing company manages and reviews the day to day work of the employee and generally has no liability when the employee screws up.

If thats not clear enough then I don't know what will be.

Also, this is the guidance from 2010 on what is employer-employee relationship-> Link (http://www.uscis.gov/USCIS/Laws/Memoranda/2010/H1B%20Employer-Employee%20Memo010810.pdf)

PS: BearingPoint doesn't exist any more. It declared bankruptcy several years ago and the pieces were bought by PwC and Deloitte. I personally worked on the due diligence and valuation process for that deal.


gcq - kudos to you for saying this. This is exactly what I have always felt but never said. You said it very very well. If I were to form an organization in future - this is precisely the kind of things we should be fighting for. Government agencies execution is ultimately done by people who have their own biases which then gets reflected in implementing the country's laws. It may or may not always have basis ... but the receiving party - unless organized and represented well - has no way to fight back.

While McKinsey may have better talent .... the fact is employer - employee - client relationship at McKinsey or IBM is fundamentally no different than wipro or infosys.

Q -
I consider TCS, Wipro and Infosys as consulting firms as they have a clear employer-employee relationship as defined by the USCIS. But there are true body shops out there that employ questionable practices as far as immigration goes. Its a different debate as to whether or not current rules are just. I also think that lobbying would be a good idea to change the current rules. But the fact is that there are rules today..and there are companies that commit fraud.

[qesehmk]

Q -
I consider TCS, Wipro and Infosys as consulting firms as they have a clear employer-employee relationship as defined by the USCIS. But there are true body shops out there that employ questionable practices as far as immigration goes. Its a different debate as to whether or not current rules are just. I also think that lobbying would be a good idea to change the current rules. But the fact is that there are rules today..and there are companies that commit fraud.

Viz - I think you are missing the point. The USCIS memo itself can't stand the test of INA should somebody sue them according to gcq. Although I am not an expert on law - I tend to side with his side on argument on the validity of the memo.

However I agree with you that there are McKinsey's / there are IBMs / there are Infys and there are mom and pop body shoppers. I would agree that the talent is certainly better on the McKinsey side of spectrum. However what I fail to understand is - how does Employee-employer relationship matter at all when a labor is approved and H1 or 140 is based on that approved labor. The USCIS memo is an unfair artificial lens that tries to look into something that has no legal basis is what gcq is saying an I tend to agree with him (unless of course somebody here can enlighten all of us better!).

Thanks for a civil dialogue to both of you!

[seattlet]

my 2 cents. USCIS had put in the employee / employer relationship & other rules predominantly to prevent benching. If IBM / Accenture / Deloitte / big consulting firms dont have a project for their employees they will still pay them monthly wages until layoff / send them back to india. However small / mid size consulting firms cannot afford it since their margins are mostly low. Hence they resort to the illegal bench practice. On other hand even most employees of small / mid size consulting firms prefer benching and an 80 / 20 cut. This might explain why the big firms never have any issue in getting their H1 approved. It is a matter of trust and USCIS has seen that most small / mid size consulting firms dont specify the truth in the H1 B application. (by site visits / audits)
USCIS actions might be unconstitutional, but that is predictable when larger number of these firms break the promise they make in their H1 application (Location, wages, job description, client name etc)



vizacard,
You are judging consulting companies based on your prejudice. My company never paid me a cut. Deloitte also may not be paying a cut theoretically. But actually it is a cut. They are making profit by the work done by their employees. They are servicing the client. They don't have their own business like regular fulltime companies.

Your assumptions which are wrong( There maybe companies doing it. They are just bad players )
As far as H1B goes, all employees need to be paid salary. They cannot work on commission or percentage. That is the law.

Basing your assumptions on the illegal USCIS memo, even after me explaining it, is you looking the other way as if you don't want to acknowledge it.

BTW I am not against any consulting model big or small. For me they are all valid business models.

[gcq]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/apr/24/immigration-reform-grover-norquist-support
Grover Norquist

[gs1968]

I feel this op-ed piece is mainly to put pressure on House Leadership to allow the Judiciary Committee to have control over the process rather than being bypassed.

http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2013/04/24/step-by-step-approach-only-way-forward-on-immigration-reform/

I have not seen any date for release of the House Bill

[vizcard]

gcq, Q
Lets just agree to disagree. There are companies that don't pay their employees when they are on the bench and they don't have control over what their "employees" are doing at the client site. As for the "getting a cut" issue, ask yourself "if the petitioner decides not to charge for a project, would the employee still get paid?". If the answer is yes, then it meets one of the two conditions, if the answer is "no", then it violates the salary condition. That's the litmus test for the USCIS. I'm not going to argue whether or not the guidance or the law or the spirit of the law is unconstitutional but I won't go as far as to say its "illegal". Paying FICA taxes but not being eligible for FICA benefits because you on H1B or EAD is also against the spirit of the law but it is what it is under the current system.

That's all I'm going to say on this topic.

[idiotic]

Good News :
==========

The House Judiciary Committee has held numerous hearings on immigration and also plans to hold one on the Senate immigration bill in the coming days to consider its merits and flaws.

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2013/04/24/step-by-step-approach-only-way-forward-on-immigration-reform/#ixzz2ROORxLNC

[gs1968]

A couple of items on my twitter feed one positive and the other not so sure

http://thehill.com/blogs/floor-action/senate/295797-leahy-says-judiciary-will-begin-immigration-mark-up-after-break#ixzz2ROgkaLB0?utm_source=buffer&utm_medium=twitter&utm_campaign=Buffer:%20@thehill%20on%20twitter&buffer_share=54920

http://thehill.com/homenews/house/295849-dem-lawmaker-gop-opposition-stalling-house-immigration-bill

There is a significant disconnect between the pace in the House and the Senate with the House showing no urgency at all. I would think a parallel process rather than a sequential process would be more beneficial
The interesting irony is that the House is considered a Bill Mill churning out Bills by the dozen and send it to the Senate for sober second thought and Deliberation.Here the roles seem to be reversed with the Senate working on an accelerated schedule and the House slowing down the process with deliberation

[gs1968]

A few pages ago we had a brief discussion on the Congressional Black Caucus concerns on the Immigration Bill provisions and the elimination of diversity visas.Here are a few disconcerting updates on the issue

http://thehill.com/homenews/house/295893-cbc-members-badger-dem-negotiator-over-diversity-visas

http://politic365.com/2013/04/24/cbc-chair-if-diversity-visas-are-not-in-immigration-bill-black-caucus-wont-support-it/

I had analyzed the last Yearbook and the number of African/Caribbean GCs were roughly 45% although only 40000 diversity visas were issued last year.

This zero-sum calculations have to stop if this reform is to go through.The CBC usually walks in step and will follow through on its threat.They have nothing to lose as almost all of them represent minority dominated districts

http://dailycaller.com/2013/04/24/african-american-leaders-protest-senates-immigration-bill/

[vizcard]

I don't blame the CBC for their opinion particularly if they have 10K Irish visas. However, the solution needs to be in the merit-based system. Add additional points for being in low immigrant pool..there is already some point weightage but increase that. That being said, the CBC shouldnt have a knee jerk reaction to this. If they want black/carribbean immigrants, get the ones that can contribute rather than come, claim welfare and be a drain on resources.

[idiotic]

http://thinkprogress.org/immigration/2013/04/22/1901611/top-opponent-of-immigration-reform-totally-loses-it-during-immigration-hearing/

Watch the video in the link in case you missed the fireworks :)

[rupen86]

A few pages ago we had a brief discussion on the Congressional Black Caucus concerns on the Immigration Bill provisions and the elimination of diversity visas.Here are a few disconcerting updates on the issue

http://thehill.com/homenews/house/295893-cbc-members-badger-dem-negotiator-over-diversity-visas

http://politic365.com/2013/04/24/cbc-chair-if-diversity-visas-are-not-in-immigration-bill-black-caucus-wont-support-it/

I had analyzed the last Yearbook and the number of African/Caribbean GCs were roughly 45% although only 40000 diversity visas were issued last year.

This zero-sum calculations have to stop if this reform is to go through.The CBC usually walks in step and will follow through on its threat.They have nothing to lose as almost all of them represent minority dominated districts

http://dailycaller.com/2013/04/24/african-american-leaders-protest-senates-immigration-bill/

There is a merit in the argument that having 10k Irish visas and not having diversity visas is not fair. Although, I think both should be eliminated. As it was claimed that house will need Black Caucus votes, compromise could be to give more points in the merit based system to help those currently getting help from diversity visa. I do not think diversity program can be back as it is.

[immi2910]

From this sheet (http://ccis.ucsd.edu/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/Senate-Predictions-31.xlsx) at http://ccis.ucsd.edu/2013/03/will-comprehensive-immigration-reform-pass-in-the-senate/ Via Trackitt (http://www.trackitt.com/usa-discussion-forums/i485-eb/1222407195/count-cir-votes/page/1)

Summary:
Solid Yes 52
Lean Yes 19
Lean No 14
Solid No 15

lastname statename category
Alexander Tennessee Solid No
Ayotte New Hampshire Lean Yes
Baldwin Wisconsin Solid Yes
Barrasso Wyoming Lean No
Baucus Montana Lean Yes
Begich Alaska Solid Yes
Bennet Colorado Solid Yes
Blumenthal Connecticut Solid Yes
Blunt Missouri Lean No
Boozman Arkansas Solid No
Boxer California Solid Yes
Brown Ohio Solid Yes
Burr North Carolina Lean No
Cantwell Washington Solid Yes
Cardin Maryland Solid Yes
Carper Delaware Solid Yes
Casey Pennsylvania Solid Yes
Chambliss Georgia Lean No
Coats Indiana Lean No
Coburn Oklahoma Lean No
Cochran Mississippi Solid No
Collins Maine Lean Yes
Coons Delaware Solid Yes
Corker Tennessee Solid No
Cornyn Texas Solid No
Cowan Massachusetts Solid Yes
Crapo Idaho Solid No
Cruz Texas Lean Yes
Donnelly Indiana Solid Yes
Durbin Illinois Solid Yes
Enzi Wyoming Lean No
Feinstein California Solid Yes
Fischer Nebraska Lean No
Flake Arizona Solid Yes
Franken Minnesota Solid Yes
Gillibrand New York Solid Yes
Graham South Carolina Solid Yes
Grassley Iowa Solid No
Hagan North Carolina Solid Yes
Harkin Iowa Solid Yes
Hatch Utah Lean Yes
Heinrich New Mexico Lean Yes
Heitkamp North Dakota Lean Yes
Heller Nevada Solid Yes
Hirono Hawaii Lean Yes
Hoeven North Dakota Lean No
Inhofe Oklahoma Lean No
Isakson Georgia Lean No
Johanns Nebraska Lean Yes
Johnson South Dakota Lean Yes
Johnson Wisconsin Lean Yes
Kaine Virginia Solid Yes
King Maine Solid Yes
Kirk Illinois Solid Yes
Klobuchar Minnesota Solid Yes
Landrieu Louisiana Lean Yes
Lautenberg New Jersey Solid Yes
Leahy Vermont Solid Yes
Lee Utah Lean Yes
Levin Michigan Solid Yes
Manchin West Virginia Lean No
McCain Arizona Solid Yes
McCaskill Missouri Solid Yes
McConnell Kentucky Solid No
Menendez New Jersey Solid Yes
Merkley Oregon Solid Yes
Mikulski Maryland Solid Yes
Moran Kansas Lean Yes
Murkowski Alaska Solid Yes
Murphy Connecticut Solid Yes
Murray Washington Solid Yes
Nelson Florida Solid Yes
Paul Kentucky Solid No
Portman Ohio Lean Yes
Pryor Arkansas Lean Yes
Reed Rhode Island Solid Yes
Reid Nevada Solid Yes
Risch Idaho Lean No
Roberts Kansas Solid No
Rockefeller West Virginia Solid Yes
Rubio Florida Solid Yes
Sanders Vermont Solid Yes
Schatz Hawaii Lean Yes
Schumer New York Solid Yes
Scott South Carolina Solid No
Sessions Alabama Solid No
Shaheen New Hampshire Solid Yes
Shelby Alabama Solid No
Stabenow Michigan Solid Yes
Tester Montana Lean Yes
Thune South Dakota Lean No
Toomey Pennsylvania Solid Yes
Udall Colorado Solid Yes
Udall New Mexico Lean Yes
Vitter Louisiana Solid No
Warner Virginia Solid Yes
Warren Massachusetts Solid Yes
Whitehouse Rhode Island Solid Yes
Wicker Mississippi Solid No
Wyden Oregon Solid Yes

[gcq]

http://abcnews.go.com/ABC_Univision/Politics/house-republican-encourages-piecemeal-approach-immigration-reform/story?id=19041315#.UXlVT8rt5dM


For a comprehensive immigration reform package to pass, it will likely have to go through the House Judiciary Committee, chaired by Republican Rep. Bob Goodlatte (Va.).

But Goodlatte wants to leave the door open to the possibility of passing a series of bills, instead of one complex, interrelated package.

"The House Judiciary Committee intends to examine immigration reform in a step-by-step approach," Goodlatte said at a press conference Thursday morning. "We welcome the ideas of all the members of House."

[rupen86]

From this sheet (http://ccis.ucsd.edu/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/Senate-Predictions-31.xlsx) at http://ccis.ucsd.edu/2013/03/will-comprehensive-immigration-reform-pass-in-the-senate/ Via Trackitt (http://www.trackitt.com/usa-discussion-forums/i485-eb/1222407195/count-cir-votes/page/1)

Summary:
Solid Yes 52
Lean Yes 19
Lean No 14
Solid No 15

lastname statename category
Alexander Tennessee Solid No
Ayotte New Hampshire Lean Yes
Baldwin Wisconsin Solid Yes
Barrasso Wyoming Lean No
Baucus Montana Lean Yes
Begich Alaska Solid Yes
Bennet Colorado Solid Yes
Blumenthal Connecticut Solid Yes
Blunt Missouri Lean No
Boozman Arkansas Solid No
Boxer California Solid Yes
Brown Ohio Solid Yes
Burr North Carolina Lean No
Cantwell Washington Solid Yes
Cardin Maryland Solid Yes
Carper Delaware Solid Yes
Casey Pennsylvania Solid Yes
Chambliss Georgia Lean No
Coats Indiana Lean No
Coburn Oklahoma Lean No
Cochran Mississippi Solid No
Collins Maine Lean Yes
Coons Delaware Solid Yes
Corker Tennessee Solid No
Cornyn Texas Solid No
Cowan Massachusetts Solid Yes
Crapo Idaho Solid No
Cruz Texas Lean Yes
Donnelly Indiana Solid Yes
Durbin Illinois Solid Yes
Enzi Wyoming Lean No
Feinstein California Solid Yes
Fischer Nebraska Lean No
Flake Arizona Solid Yes
Franken Minnesota Solid Yes
Gillibrand New York Solid Yes
Graham South Carolina Solid Yes
Grassley Iowa Solid No
Hagan North Carolina Solid Yes
Harkin Iowa Solid Yes
Hatch Utah Lean Yes
Heinrich New Mexico Lean Yes
Heitkamp North Dakota Lean Yes
Heller Nevada Solid Yes
Hirono Hawaii Lean Yes
Hoeven North Dakota Lean No
Inhofe Oklahoma Lean No
Isakson Georgia Lean No
Johanns Nebraska Lean Yes
Johnson South Dakota Lean Yes
Johnson Wisconsin Lean Yes
Kaine Virginia Solid Yes
King Maine Solid Yes
Kirk Illinois Solid Yes
Klobuchar Minnesota Solid Yes
Landrieu Louisiana Lean Yes
Lautenberg New Jersey Solid Yes
Leahy Vermont Solid Yes
Lee Utah Lean Yes
Levin Michigan Solid Yes
Manchin West Virginia Lean No
McCain Arizona Solid Yes
McCaskill Missouri Solid Yes
McConnell Kentucky Solid No
Menendez New Jersey Solid Yes
Merkley Oregon Solid Yes
Mikulski Maryland Solid Yes
Moran Kansas Lean Yes
Murkowski Alaska Solid Yes
Murphy Connecticut Solid Yes
Murray Washington Solid Yes
Nelson Florida Solid Yes
Paul Kentucky Solid No
Portman Ohio Lean Yes
Pryor Arkansas Lean Yes
Reed Rhode Island Solid Yes
Reid Nevada Solid Yes
Risch Idaho Lean No
Roberts Kansas Solid No
Rockefeller West Virginia Solid Yes
Rubio Florida Solid Yes
Sanders Vermont Solid Yes
Schatz Hawaii Lean Yes
Schumer New York Solid Yes
Scott South Carolina Solid No
Sessions Alabama Solid No
Shaheen New Hampshire Solid Yes
Shelby Alabama Solid No
Stabenow Michigan Solid Yes
Tester Montana Lean Yes
Thune South Dakota Lean No
Toomey Pennsylvania Solid Yes
Udall Colorado Solid Yes
Udall New Mexico Lean Yes
Vitter Louisiana Solid No
Warner Virginia Solid Yes
Warren Massachusetts Solid Yes
Whitehouse Rhode Island Solid Yes
Wicker Mississippi Solid No
Wyden Oregon Solid Yes

http://www.politico.com/story/2013/04/leaders-at-least-70-votes-for-immigration-reform-90626.html?hp=f1

[gs1968]

To Pedro/rupen and immi2910

Thanks for the link and the list.I had attempted a similar effort on this thread last week where I had got a tally of at least 59 votes in favor.It is very difficult to assess when likely yes or no is added to the picture as the picture becomes very murky.I had tried to put them in yes or no buckets only. Also in the above list Ted Cruz is mentioned as a likely yes although nothing that he has said or done in the last few weeks seems to suggest this. Sen.Pryor with a tough re-election is also a tough call. Another Senator in point is Sen.Baldwin who has for obvious reasons deep concern for LGBT issues and may drive a hard bargain before saying yes. 70 votes is possible although I am still skeptical that a majority of Republicans will vote for this. Senator Graham had mentioned 48 democratic votes and 22 republican votes for a total of 70 votes

[gs1968]

An interesting exchange at the Business Meeting yesterday of the Senate Judiciary Committee

http://www.breitbart.com/Breitbart-TV/2013/04/25/Immigration-Debate-Gets-Nasty-Sen-Leahy-to-Sessions-We-Make-Good-Salaries-you-can-read-it-later

I know our immediate reaction is going to be to dismiss Sen.Sessions and the hardliners as a minority and unable to stop progress of the legislation but the talking points they generate are going to be fodder for the conservatives at large especially in the House. I am sure NumbersUSA and Mark Krikorian etc are preparing their dossiers for circulation during the current recess.I only hope that they take a a balanced view and as Sen.Schumer said not to delay the Bill for delay's sake

[gs1968]

Another interesting piece

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-04-25/which-hatch-will-come-forward-on-immigration-.html

Years ago another senator who had been promised of Sen.Hatch's support on a certain Bill but ended up voting against it said-

"Don't count your Hatches before they chicken!"

[gs1968]

It didn't take them too long to come up with these numbers.I am disappointed that the Bill sponsors are not forthcoming with their own assessments on immigrant inflow to refute these allegations.If they do not move fast these high numbers will be played up repeatedly by the media

http://dailycaller.com/2013/04/26/anti-immigration-group-immigration-bill-to-bring-in-at-least-33-million-people/

[Ramsen]

I think cap exemption for STEM and EB1 and also huge number of green cards in illegal and family based immigration will create obstacles for passage. If Senate attempts to pass with same form then I am sure house will kill it. In the bill most people got whatever they wanted except a few. They tried to give more than expected for EB and H1b. It tends me to think that all the lobbyists succeeded in getting whatever they want. Senators will not have problem in getting campaign donation if the bill passes or fails. If the bill is made conservative in numbers for every category then there is a possibility to pass in house. There is no opposition for removing diversity gc and some family based. That surprise me and tend to think that the bill may go similar to 2007 but without anyone taking blame. Finally house republicans may take the blame but should not impact election results in house. And Rubio may have chance to become president if bill fails or passes. Infact if the bill fails Rubio could try next term president(If he becomes) by supporting CIR on 2017

[gcq]

It didn't take them too long to come up with these numbers.I am disappointed that the Bill sponsors are not forthcoming with their own assessments on immigrant inflow to refute these allegations.If they do not move fast these high numbers will be played up repeatedly by the media

http://dailycaller.com/2013/04/26/anti-immigration-group-immigration-bill-to-bring-in-at-least-33-million-people/

This campaign by numbers USA is expected. They will definitely following up with phone calls and faxes to congressional/senate offices when bill comes up for voting. NUSA claims that they overloaded DC phone lines last time. During HR 3012, we did that too ! Proponents of the bill should anticipate this and prepare a counter strategy.

This time it is different from 2007. Generally america is very receptive to immigration bill this time around. Hispanics and Asians are a significant voting block. There are more youngsters among voters.

By careful planning and organized effort, NUSA and their allies can be defeated this time.



Prepare a grass root campaigning by Hispanics and other immigrant groups. Hispanics have considerable population now.



Obama has a grassroots organisation now. His campaign volunteers converted to an organisation to help Obama with his legislative efforts. Organize them to campaign for the bill.



Last but not least, our legal immigrant community should campaign the way we did for HR 3012.

[gs1968]

To gcq

It is not that straightforward. We have to remember that the pace and fate of the process is still controlled by the republicans in the House. The average percentage of the non-Hispanic white population in a Republican held congressional district is 75% and they stand to gain very little from passing this legislation and everything to lose. Rep.Trey Gowdy said this week that his congressional district has a 2% Hispanic population and thus he is not doing this to gain votes. He would like to see some form of solution to this problem but he feels no pressure to rush things

This is an article today from the NRO which is a conservative publication but nevertheless illustrates the problem of CIR passage

http://www.nationalreview.com/article/346758/bob-goodlatte%E2%80%99s-slow-burn

[gcq]

gs1968,
This is a comment from the same article. I think house may go this route after a while. Otherwise CIR is almost guaranteed to fail.


Goodlatte won't matter, Boehner will cave. The bill will likely get 70-72 votes in the Senate and the political pressure from his colleagues in the leadership as well as the special interests will get to him. He will likely put up small bills like strong enforcement which will pass and then the Path that will fail. He will then either bring up the comprehensive bill from the house (which is similar to the Senate's) for passage. Or he might just bring up the Senate package as he may not want 2 votes after they reconcile the house/senate package.

[vizcard]

To gcq

It is not that straightforward. We have to remember that the pace and fate of the process is still controlled by the republicans in the House. The average percentage of the non-Hispanic white population in a Republican held congressional district is 75% and they stand to gain very little from passing this legislation and everything to lose. Rep.Trey Gowdy said this week that his congressional district has a 2% Hispanic population and thus he is not doing this to gain votes. He would like to see some form of solution to this problem but he feels no pressure to rush things

This is an article today from the NRO which is a conservative publication but nevertheless illustrates the problem of CIR passage

http://www.nationalreview.com/article/346758/bob-goodlatte%E2%80%99s-slow-burn

The republican issues are at in presidential election time and less so in congressional elections.

[iatiam]

There is a generally accepted notion that Democrats are pro-immigration whereas Republicans are anti-immigration. However I don't think this is true based on some of these observation,
1. Most of the pro-legal immigration bills like HR3012 and allocating DV to EB where brought about by Republicans. Even for CIR, the man who is leading the efforts Senator Rubio is a Republican.
2. Republican presidential candidates like Romney and Huntsman openly favored legal immigration. Heck, Romney even told that all STEM graduates should have GCs stapled to their diplomas. Obama on the other hand did just lip service - like going to Facebook and telling people that they will all get GCs (this was during a townhall meeting). He infact gave an executive order to give EADs to dreamers which might have single-handedly won him the re-election.
3. Republicans have a lot to lose if the CIR come along since the illegal immigrants, who are mostly hispanics will add to Democratic vote bank. The last amnesty given by Reagan turned California from a red state to a blue state. Considering this, the republican support for CIR is encouraging.
4. There are extremists every where- there are Grassley's in Democratic party too. Just that the Democrats haven't done any thing significant to bring them to limelight.

Mostly personal opinions and observations. (Disclaimer: I am not even a GC holder so I can't vote. Politically I would call myself fiscally conservative and socially liberal which is a mystical creature which exists only in fairy tales)

[vizcard]

There is a generally accepted notion that Democrats are pro-immigration whereas Republicans are anti-immigration. However I don't think this is true based on some of these observation,
1. Most of the pro-legal immigration bills like HR3012 and allocating DV to EB where brought about by Republicans. Even for CIR, the man who is leading the efforts Senator Rubio is a Republican.
2. Republican presidential candidates like Romney and Huntsman openly favored legal immigration. Heck, Romney even told that all STEM graduates should have GCs stapled to their diplomas. Obama on the other hand did just lip service - like going to Facebook and telling people that they will all get GCs (this was during a townhall meeting). He infact gave an executive order to give EADs to dreamers which might have single-handedly won him the re-election.
3. Republicans have a lot to lose if the CIR come along since the illegal immigrants, who are mostly hispanics will add to Democratic vote bank. The last amnesty given by Reagan turned California from a red state to a blue state. Considering this, the republican support for CIR is encouraging.
4. There are extremists every where- there are Grassley's in Democratic party too. Just that the Democrats haven't done any thing significant to bring them to limelight.

Mostly personal opinions and observations. (Disclaimer: I am not even a GC holder so I can't vote. Politically I would call myself fiscally conservative and socially liberal which is a mystical creature which exists only in fairy tales)

Iatiam
I am one of those mythical creatures too. The qualifier to your post is " legal" immigration. Republicans are very pro legal immigration. Not so much when it comes to illegals.

[rupen86]

gs1968,
This is a comment from the same article. I think house may go this route after a while. Otherwise CIR is almost guaranteed to fail.

This remains to be seen. Current Rhetoric suggests they will do everything through regular order which means CIR won't pass. After senate passes CIR, whether they will be able to influence Boehner and others to put it on the house floor rather than through committee remains to be seen.

[vizcard]

This remains to be seen. Current Rhetoric suggests they will do everything through regular order which means CIR won't pass. After senate passes CIR, whether they will be able to influence Boehner and others to put it on the house floor rather than through committee remains to be seen.

I am torn between the need for immediate gratification vs long term social responsibility. In the short term, it (in its current form) will benefit us immensely from a GC and citizenship standpoint - and quick passage helps in that regard. However, given that immigration reform seems to happen every 20-25 years, i dont want sloppy reform to be passed without due process. That will just impact us down the road.

That's my deep thought for the week :)

[gs1968]

To rupen/vizcard

It suddenly appears that Sen.Rubio is also OK with the piecemeal approach

http://washingtonexaminer.com/house-senate-differences-endanger-immigration-reform/article/2528260

"The House may be able to force the Senate to break up the Gang of Eight's plan into separate bills if that is the only path to compromise. And that would be fine with Sen. Marco Rubio, R-Fla., one of the principle architects of the Senate proposal.

"I've always said we would get a better bill if it was done in individual pieces," Rubio told The Examiner. "That is not the direction the Senate has gone. I'm going to try and influence what the Senate here is doing, and ultimately, that is the way it may end up happening."

[chengisk]

To rupen/vizcard
It suddenly appears that Sen.Rubio is also OK with the piecemeal approach
http://washingtonexaminer.com/house-senate-differences-endanger-immigration-reform/article/2528260
"The House may be able to force the Senate to break up the Gang of Eight's plan into separate bills if that is the only path to compromise. And that would be fine with Sen. Marco Rubio, R-Fla., one of the principle architects of the Senate proposal.
"I've always said we would get a better bill if it was done in individual pieces," Rubio told The Examiner. "That is not the direction the Senate has gone. I'm going to try and influence what the Senate here is doing, and ultimately, that is the way it may end up happening."

That does throw a wrench in the whole works, doesn't it? We have always known that the whole CIR exercise is only slightly more than a vote bank rhetoric. If it does become a piecemeal proposition, I am sure the visa for the undocumented will survive, but path to citizenship might be iffy. The rest (plans for backlog elimination) will depend on the lobbyists. My feeling is there are equal number of lobbyists for and against H visa and residency reform. Indian business lobby will be against both. And the WH will not like the piecemeal either. So now I have doubts that they will bring this bill on to the senate floor as it is now by June.

[vizcard]

The Democrats and in particular Obama don't want piecemeal legislature. That way they get what they want for illegals in exchange for legal immigration reform.

[gs1968]

That does throw a wrench in the whole works, doesn't it? We have always known that the whole CIR exercise is only slightly more than a vote bank rhetoric. If it does become a piecemeal proposition, I am sure the visa for the undocumented will survive, but path to citizenship might be iffy. The rest (plans for backlog elimination) will depend on the lobbyists. My feeling is there are equal number of lobbyists for and against H visa and residency reform. Indian business lobby will be against both. And the WH will not like the piecemeal either. So now I have doubts that they will bring this bill on to the senate floor as it is now by June.

To my friend from Minnesota (if you are still living there)

That quote was from an article in the Washington Examiner which is a conservative leaning newspaper and may have been tailored to suit their audience.I do see that the Senate Judiciary Committee is moving right on ahead with its process and there should be a vote on this during the summer.
Senator Hatch has also come forward with cautious support and most likely the Bill will clear Committee with a 13-5 margin.The general consensus is about 70 votes in the Senate and we have to wait till this happens before the House even reacts.

There are some other fights before this takes center stage including the debt ceiling & a Farm Bill.In addition the House Judiciary Committee feels Benghazi is more important than immigration

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/apr/28/rep-trey-gowdy-explosive-benghazi-hearings-coming-/

You have had a long/cold & harsh winter in the upper mid-west so please stop worrying and enjoy the weather and family. As I have mentioned before,all we should worry about is the conference report in the fall

BTW-We have started using Quinoa grain in our house instead of the Brown Basmati rice because we read that it has a low glycemic index.Something you might want to try.It is more expensive and I found the cheapest price in BJs. Have any of the other forum members had experience with this grain-if so please share here (http://www.qesehmk.org/forums/showthread.php/1186-Finding-Brown-Basmati-Rice)

[Ramsen]

2. Republican presidential candidates like Romney and Huntsman openly favored legal immigration. Heck, Romney even told that all STEM graduates should have GCs stapled to their diplomas. Obama on the other hand did just lip service - like going to Facebook and telling people that they will all get GCs (this was during a townhall meeting). He infact gave an executive order to give EADs to dreamers which might have single-handedly won him the re-election.


Last year same republicans did not want to give 50k new green cards for STEM(They tried to take from diversity so that was failed). President and Presidential candidates can promise anything. But immigration is not in their hands and it is only under control of congress. Also immigration does not have any time limit like fiscal cliff. So it is always nice to have for the congress and it could be delayed many more years. But there is lot of progress compared to 2007 but I think it may not be enough. Another one or 2 atempts may be needed to pass

[rupen86]

To rupen/vizcard

It suddenly appears that Sen.Rubio is also OK with the piecemeal approach

http://washingtonexaminer.com/house-senate-differences-endanger-immigration-reform/article/2528260

"The House may be able to force the Senate to break up the Gang of Eight's plan into separate bills if that is the only path to compromise. And that would be fine with Sen. Marco Rubio, R-Fla., one of the principle architects of the Senate proposal.

"I've always said we would get a better bill if it was done in individual pieces," Rubio told The Examiner. "That is not the direction the Senate has gone. I'm going to try and influence what the Senate here is doing, and ultimately, that is the way it may end up happening."

I am almost sure that there won't be even a discussion for piecemeal in senate. Rubio was always favoring piece meal. There is nothing new about that. But I do not think he is going to push for it. In house, it is a different story. They will take piecemeal bills and there does not seem to be any urgency. After senate passes bill, we have to see if house leadership can be pressured enough to take up the senate bill.

[chengisk]

@gs1968
Yes I am still in Land of 10k lakes. Yes, you are right about not to worry about the CIR as of now, although the uncertainty and secrecy behind the whole maneuver is a bit unnerving. I assume it has been so for everyone who might benefit from this and even the lawmakers outside of the 'gang'.
PS: At home just a week or two back we discussed about trying quinoa. Thanks. Cheers.

[rupen86]

This article presents positive assessment on house process.

http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Politics/2013/0425/Senate-House-pursue-sharply-different-paths-to-immigration-reform

[gs1968]

To rupen
The following article is probably the closest to what I think will eventually happen

http://thehill.com/blogs/pundits-blog/immigration/296721-rubio-immigration-plan-seeks-improvement-momentum

A question to Spec/Q/viz and others who have spent enough time reading the Bill.Before the elimination of the sibling quota 18 months after enactment of the Bill,are new applications still accepted in that 18 month window.I can see a tremendous surge in applications as it almost guarantees a Green Card within 10 years.

Please explain

[gs1968]

House Speaker John Boehner has to summon enough strength of mind to put country before party and do the right thing for immigration.I saw this piece recently again reinforcing the piecemeal approach favored by the House Judiciary Committee.It is disappointing to see House Majority Leader Mr.Eric Cantor play down prospects for reform especially when the Senate Majority Leader Mr.Reid had just sounded so positive

http://qz.com/79547/even-the-junk-bond-king-cant-protect-immigration-reform-from-these-lurking-threats/

[vizcard]

House Speaker John Boehner has to summon enough strength of mind to put country before party and do the right thing for immigration.I saw this piece recently again reinforcing the piecemeal approach favored by the House Judiciary Committee.It is disappointing to see House Majority Leader Mr.Eric Cantor play down prospects for reform especially when the Senate Majority Leader Mr.Reid had just sounded so positive

http://qz.com/79547/even-the-junk-bond-king-cant-protect-immigration-reform-from-these-lurking-threats/

Thats all political bs. Cantor is trying to use CIR as leverage against the debt ceiling discussions. Besides it appears that a lot of conservative republicans are also open to the path to citizenship concept as long as the border security triggers are ok. Also, in my opinion, Boehner has way more sway in the House.

[rupen86]

From Oh Law firm,

You can suggest amendments on Rubio's site. I think it is a good opportunity and worth a try. Most of the provisions related to us have effective date after 1 year and if we can get them to change this through amendment to make it effective immediate rather than 1 year, it would be tremendous value to us.
http://www.rubio.senate.gov/public/index.cfm/help-us-improve-the-bill?ID=beb53cf6-7c87-4ada-9828-1c3a0b150537&LeaveComment=true

[gs1968]

To vizcard
The Senate Bill not only relies on a path to citizenship but also a tremendous increase in legal immigration to get an end result of 13 years or so for the RPIs to get their citizenship.We have to wait and see if the House will agree to that. A couple of more points for your thought

http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/conservative-virginia-lawmaker-exercises-sway-on-immigration-but-sees-room-for-common-ground/2013/04/29/4d868e22-b0ff-11e2-9fb1-62de9581c946_story_1.html

An excerpt from the above article

"He envisions a legal status short of citizenship for them, and from there the potential to make use of the existing legal avenues to naturalization, whether through work or family connections.


Another quote from one of the House Gang members in the following article

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/04/29/house-immigration-bill_n_3180612.html

""It has compassion. It allows people to be human beings, to live a normal life, to have a job, to take care of their family, to pay their taxes, to obey the law and go about their lives."

The 13 year target is not possible if they insist on going to the 'back of the line' without significantly increasing legal immigration to clear backlogs and I am hoping that the House incorporates that in their Bill.So far we have seen no evidence of that in the press releases but the House Gang has also been more secretive.We shall wait and see

[kd2008]

The voice website about immigration posted that "We have received confirmation that there will be change to the bill that will exempt all US STEM applicants. The current language allows exemption for US STEM in EB-2 only."

[kkruna]

To vizcard
The Senate Bill not only relies on a path to citizenship but also a tremendous increase in legal immigration to get an end result of 13 years or so for the RPIs to get their citizenship.

Not sure what data about undocumented 11m they used to arrive at this figure of 13 years. We are talking of interplay of numbers between the legal immigrants and the undocumented ones in steady state mode for the first 13 years. The model would be quite complex. Already USCIS cannot handle legal immigration numbers alone accurately.

[bvsamrat]

Frankly CIR does not do much help to EB2- I with PDs 2007-2010 as they had already waited enough. No doubt, it will generate future surge in applications.
Only by chance - if a few piecemeal legislations sneak through with immediate effect: such as removal of country cap/removal of dependents etc>, then it would give good releif to 2007-2010 PDs.

Is there any chance for this to happen?


To rupen
The following article is probably the closest to what I think will eventually happen

http://thehill.com/blogs/pundits-blog/immigration/296721-rubio-immigration-plan-seeks-improvement-momentum

A question to Spec/Q/viz and others who have spent enough time reading the Bill.Before the elimination of the sibling quota 18 months after enactment of the Bill,are new applications still accepted in that 18 month window.I can see a tremendous surge in applications as it almost guarantees a Green Card within 10 years.

Please explain

[seahawks2012]

Frankly CIR does not do much help to EB2- I with PDs 2007-2010 as they had already waited enough. No doubt, it will generate future surge in applications.
Only by chance - if a few piecemeal legislations sneak through with immediate effect: such as removal of country cap/removal of dependents etc>, then it would give good releif to 2007-2010 PDs.

Is there any chance for this to happen?

IMO, single fact of not counting dependents against the green card count itself is big! This will double the green cards immediately (helping everyone in EB). Second fact is that EB1 & few others would not be counted against the green card count. That is also big.

For me the irritating restriction is about the Master Degree in the last 5 years requirement. So, applicants who got their degree in early 2000s & still stuck in the green card limbo would not be benefited.

[gcq]

http://www.myfoxal.com/story/22125888/immigration-debate-gives-life-to-annual-rallies


Now, immigrant advocacy groups are focusing heavily on calling and writing members of Congress, sometimes targeting specific lawmakers at key moments in the debate. Reform Immigration for America, a network of groups, claims more than 1.2 million subscribers, including recipients of text messages and Facebook followers.

[pdfeb09]

IMO, single fact of not counting dependents against the green card count itself is big! This will double the green cards immediately (helping everyone in EB). Second fact is that EB1 & few others would not be counted against the green card count. That is also big.

For me the irritating restriction is about the Master Degree in the last 5 years requirement. So, applicants who got their degree in early 2000s & still stuck in the green card limbo would not be benefited.

I may be wrong, but does it not say that the beneficiary should have obtained an MS degree within the last 5 years from the date of the petition? I take it to mean that 5 years prior to the I140 application and NOT within the last 5 years when the law actually takes effect.

It would be great to get some Gurus to shed light on this.

[vizcard]

I may be wrong, but does it not say that the beneficiary should have obtained an MS degree within the last 5 years from the date of the petition? I take it to mean that 5 years prior to the I140 application and NOT within the last 5 years when the law actually takes effect.

It would be great to get some Gurus to shed light on this.

Yes that it what is says. But a case like mine where I finished my MS in 2001 then worked, then got my MBA and then had my GC application in 2008, I don't get that benefit - even if I work in a STEM field.

[gs1968]

The situation in the House is so messed up we should be grateful they don't have a Bill yet!

http://www.theatlanticwire.com/politics/2013/05/house-vs-senate-gop-immigration-plan/64771/

http://blogs.rollcall.com/goppers/house-immigration-plan-could-include-self-deport-option/

What purpose is served by this pointless touch-back to their home countries?

[vizcard]

The situation in the House is so messed up we should be grateful they don't have a Bill yet!

http://www.theatlanticwire.com/politics/2013/05/house-vs-senate-gop-immigration-plan/64771/

http://blogs.rollcall.com/goppers/house-immigration-plan-could-include-self-deport-option/

What purpose is served by this pointless touch-back to their home countries?

I agree. Its pointless. Besides, how in the world are they going to calculate back taxes ? One could very well claim to be under the 50K (or whatever) annual salary and not be subject to taxes. So there's no reason to not go that route.

The aim is to kill the bill. Self deportation will never fly. I just hope Boehner has the stones to circumvent this noise and get down to real business.

[rupen86]

The situation in the House is so messed up we should be grateful they don't have a Bill yet!

http://www.theatlanticwire.com/politics/2013/05/house-vs-senate-gop-immigration-plan/64771/

http://blogs.rollcall.com/goppers/house-immigration-plan-could-include-self-deport-option/

What purpose is served by this pointless touch-back to their home countries?

I do not see anything wrong here. There are giving 2 options. One would be to pay penalties as the senate plan says or second option is to return to the home country and apply through new legal channel which is supposed be broader and easier. So, I feel it is providing more than what senate plan is proposing.

[seahawks2012]

Yes that it what is says. But a case like mine where I finished my MS in 2001 then worked, then got my MBA and then had my GC application in 2008, I don't get that benefit - even if I work in a STEM field.

In my case, I got my MS in 2004 then changed jobs and applied in 2008 which was then bulk rejected by DOL then reapplied in 2011. That's loss of 2.5 years of priority date & not being able to qualify for the STEM MS category because of reasons that only DOL & Senate understands.

[bvsamrat]

This is right. In addtion to the 3rd choice of status quo to stay put as illegal without any action.
There should not be an issue.


I do not see anything wrong here. There are giving 2 options. One would be to pay penalties as the senate plan says or second option is to return to the home country and apply through new legal channel which is supposed be broader and easier. So, I feel it is providing more than what senate plan is proposing.

[justvisiting]

This is right. In addtion to the 3rd choice of status quo to stay put as illegal without any action.
There should not be an issue.

The "touchback" is actually pretty significant:
1. DOS and not DHS would process the application. They have more manpower.
2. DOS decisions cannot be reviewed by courts (doctrine of consular non-reviewability).
3. If DOS denies the application, no further action is needed - the immigrant is already outside the US. No need to start removal proceedings.

It actually makes a lot of sense to me.

[vizcard]

Reality check -
If an illegal is working here and has a steady stream of income, why in the world would they go back home (ie self deport), apply through the legal immigration channel and risk getting rejected? There is no upside for that individual at all.

In theory the touchback makes sense but the reality of it is a small fraction (if any) would choose this route. The only purpose I can see of adding this will be make conservative republicans ok the bill with "self deportation" included

[justvisiting]

Reality check -
If an illegal is working here and has a steady stream of income, why in the world would they go back home (ie self deport), apply through the legal immigration channel and risk getting rejected? There is no upside for that individual at all.

In theory the touchback makes sense but the reality of it is a small fraction (if any) would choose this route. The only purpose I can see of adding this will be make conservative republicans ok the bill with "self deportation" included

I don't understand your need to use the term "self deportation". This is nothing more than consular processing.

Currently, those who EWI need to do CP anyway. I agree than making either/or makes it unlikely many would go through CP. Just keep the current law, but make the waivers available to more people.

The proposed upside is avoid the long wait to a GC and the (presumably) heavy fees.

[gs1968]

To vizcard

None of this will come about and will be nixed in conference if it comes to that.
We had covered this news item a few days ago but is worth repeating just to try and make sense of the last paragraph

"We can do a lot and I just hope that if we get to the point where there are some issues that seem insurmountable, let’s go ahead and try to practice doing things together so we can get some things done,” Cantor said."

I don't think even he can make sense of what he just said!

[gcq]

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/ticket/rubio-pitch-conservatives-immigration-reform-don-t-act-140103261.html

"Conservatism has always been about reforming government and solving problems, and that's why the conservative movement should lead on immigration reform," he wrote. "The immigration-reform bill in the Senate is a solid starting point for solving this problem, and I believe it can be made even better as Congress begins to actively work on it in committee next week. But defeating it without offering an alternative cannot be the conservative position on immigration reform. That would leave the issue entirely in the hands of President Obama and leave in place the disastrous status quo."

[gs1968]

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/05/03/us-usa-immigration-congress-idUSBRE9420W920130503

Some movement on the House side although we have seen this before. I think the House Group feels it has to introduce a Bill before the Senate passes its version so they are not pressurized to accept the Senate Bill as their working basis

[beebin]

Hi I am new to this site so bear with Me please. I read an article and is was basically saying that the President can use his power to legalize the 11 million undocumented immigrants even if it fails to pass in the senate or in the House. Can he use that same power to pass comprehensive immigration reform?

[vizcard]

Hi I am new to this site so bear with Me please. I read an article and is was basically saying that the President can use his power to legalize the 11 million undocumented immigrants even if it fails to pass in the senate or in the House. Can he use that same power to pass comprehensive immigration reform?

He cannot use executive powers to pass legislation. Thats the fundamental reason of the different branches of govt. Current immigration laws are exactly that - laws. They can only be changed by Congress.

He can legalize them but can't put them on a path to citizenship. Also if he did legalize them, you can take it in writing that Democrats will suffer in elections.

[justvisiting]

Hi I am new to this site so bear with Me please. I read an article and is was basically saying that the President can use his power to legalize the 11 million undocumented immigrants even if it fails to pass in the senate or in the House. Can he use that same power to pass comprehensive immigration reform?

The President can use "prosecutorial discretion" to grant deferred action, on a large scale if he wants. But that does not give anyone a green card or a road to citizenship.

[indiani]

The President can use "prosecutorial discretion" to grant deferred action, on a large scale if he wants. But that does not give anyone a green card or a road to citizenship.

I think the president might defer most deportations (apart from felons) but he cannot give EAD's to all illegals like he did for dreamers.I don't think the democrats in congress or even obama seriously wants immigration to be passed as it will be like a carrot they can use for latino vote , thats why he and leahy wants gay marriage recognistion part of CIR which only makes it much tougher to pass in house , moreover black caucus wanst diversity visas part of the bill which again republicans don't like.

in general when 2 parties have to agree on a huge bill, its safe to say that the odds of bill dying is much higher than passing,

[seahawks2012]

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/05/03/us-usa-immigration-congress-idUSBRE9420W920130503
Some movement on the House side although we have seen this before. I think the House Group feels it has to introduce a Bill before the Senate passes its version so they are not pressurized to accept the Senate Bill as their working basis


"The guest worker provisions will be one of the more contentious issues the Senate Judiciary Committee faces when it considers changes to the legislation in its "markup" next week."

What is a "markup" of bill? Seems like a good news to have it potentially come out next week... some action hopefully!

[gs1968]

To seahawks
It refers to the process by which the Bill is debated/amendments made and text altered IN COMMITTEE before being reported to the entire Senate for deliberation of that chamber.It usually indicates the end of the Hearing phase in that chamber.Once the legislative language is finalized,a simple majority vote in Committee is enough to report the Bill to the Senate Floor-From the Senate Glossary

" markup - The process by which congressional committees and subcommittees debate, amend, and rewrite proposed legislation. "

A couple of news stories from this AM

http://www.politico.com/story/2013/05/senate-amendment-immigration-bill-90945.html

http://www.politico.com/story/2013/05/gang-of-eight-immigration-supermajority-90949.html#.UYeIT-PjW88.twitter

The fond hope is 70+ votes but whether that will move the House is a different question.At the very least the positive energy on the Senate Bill should make the House produce its own Bill.The Simpson-Mazzoli Bill in 1986 gathered 69 Senate votes to put things in perspective and was passed in May 1985 but the House Bill and Conference report did not pass till the fall of 1986

[vizcard]

My personaly opinion is that Boehner is going to play an extremely important role in the next 6 months .. more so than Rubio played in the last 6 months. Leahy and Goodlatte will have their 15 mins but I think Boehner will need to make the ultimate call to bring the Senate-passed bill to the floor. If he doesn't allow that, then it will be defeated or at the very least delayed. Then you'll have the Congressional elections next year and we'll be back to square 1 with need to go through most of the whole process.

[immitime]

My personaly opinion is that Boehner is going to play an extremely important role in the next 6 months .. more so than Rubio played in the last 6 months. Leahy and Goodlatte will have their 15 mins but I think Boehner will need to make the ultimate call to bring the Senate-passed bill to the floor. If he doesn't allow that, then it will be defeated or at the very least delayed. Then you'll have the Congressional elections next year and we'll be back to square 1 with need to go through most of the whole process.

If the Administration want they can fix the Legal immigration easily within a week.. see how USCIS changed the spillover interpretation and H1 Visa revalidation RFE stuffs without any intervention of Congress. Legal immigration has been made hostage for long, just to have the political ambitions acheived, and the cost of it is family sufferings, splitup, and what not Do I say anything more???. The Natures law will not spare the id***s who created this mess.

[qesehmk]

Guys ... as much as everybody's hope are high - my word of advice is - don't lose sight of your career and life.

We are already seeing politics being played with the issue - from both parties. Politicians live on issues. They don't live for solving issues. So both sides will try to keep it alive rather than solve it.

So don't pin your hopes too much on this bill and differ what you want to do in your life and career.

[vizcard]

Guys ... as much as everybody's hope are high - my word of advice is - don't lose sight of your career and life.

We are already seeing politics being played with the issue - from both parties. Politicians live on issues. They don't live for solving issues. So both sides will try to keep it alive rather than solve it.

So don't pin your hopes too much on this bill and differ what you want to do in your life and career.


Completely agree. The Special Forces (either the Seals or the Rangers..not sure which) have a motto that is so perfect when it comes to living our day to day lives under this cloud of immigration - "Plan for the worst, hope for the best". Obviously worst case is nothing happens with CIR in which case the calculations on this forum will become your best source of directional guidance related to immigration. Best case is that CIR passes and everyone becomes current in the next year.

Also, I was given a piece of advice when I was much younger and I'll pass it on to this forum. "Worry about what you can control...You cannot do anything about the other stuff anyway" (other than pray if you are a religious person).

[immitime]

Guys ... as much as everybody's hope are high - my word of advice is - don't lose sight of your career and life.

We are already seeing politics being played with the issue - from both parties. Politicians live on issues. They don't live for solving issues. So both sides will try to keep it alive rather than solve it.

So don't pin your hopes too much on this bill and differ what you want to do in your life and career.

Q, you are right... no hope highs!! :-)... There is no career or good life without a GC.. it s only tiffin carrier! Politics is being played there also, but the only difference is office politics! of course, People who came on 2007, 2008 to this country have green card.. people from 2002 waits still for 485 approvals. There is only 5 % chance of passing this bill. No hopes from day 1! :-) People may think I am a pessimist of course not. As Q says, we need to look after our Welfare, rather than waiting for this bill with a begging bowl!

[gcq]

IMO key to whether CIR bill will come to vote will be determined by GOP in party negotiations with house leadership. I assume, it might be already going on. If it is fruitful, passage in house is virtually guaranteed. As for Goodlatte, he was strongly against illegal immigration. The fact that he even agreed to discuss in committee itself is a big change for him. I speculate he will further change and bring the bill for vote.

[vizcard]

Q, you are right... no hope highs!! :-)... There is no career or good life without a GC.. it s only tiffin carrier! Politics is being played there also, but the only difference is office politics! of course, People who came on 2007, 2008 to this country have green card.. people from 2002 waits still for 485 approvals. There is only 5 % chance of passing this bill. No hopes from day 1! :-) People may think I am a pessimist of course not. As Q says, we need to look after our Welfare, rather than waiting for this bill with a begging bowl!

immitime - step away from the ledge my friend. I sincerely hope you were being sarcastic in your post.

There's no need for doom and gloom scenarios. I have recommended this to others. If your life sucks so much without a GC, then maybe you should consider going back to your home country. If you imagine your life will miraculously change with a GC, you are in for a rude shock.

From a day to day perspective for a young / middle-aged person, the only thing that changes with a GC is the sense of security (and a shorter line through customs). I don't want to undermine the sense of security aspect but you should really be focusing on the foundations of your life - family, health and job (in that order). You should take action to improve all those aspects. You can change jobs if you feel you are being victimized in your current job - albeit with some paperwork.

[ton_vj]

GC will help to get you lot more good Jobs rather than being held with the same Job / skill for the last 10 years. I personally missed close to 7 opportunities in the last year or so., being the reason i don't have GC.

GC has lot more advantages but the "PATH TO GC" as you mentioned is more rude shock.


immitime - step away from the ledge my friend. I sincerely hope you were being sarcastic in your post.

There's no need for doom and gloom scenarios. I have recommended this to others. If your life sucks so much without a GC, then maybe you should consider going back to your home country. If you imagine your life will miraculously change with a GC, you are in for a rude shock.

From a day to day perspective for a young / middle-aged person, the only thing that changes with a GC is the sense of security (and a shorter line through customs). I don't want to undermine the sense of security aspect but you should really be focusing on the foundations of your life - family, health and job (in that order). You should take action to improve all those aspects. You can change jobs if you feel you are being victimized in your current job - albeit with some paperwork.

[Pedro Gonzales]

I am optimistic, and the reason is the multitude of names outside congress that have voiced support for the bill as it stands (or at least the general principles): Grover Norquist, Bill Gates, Sean Hannity, Mark Zuckerberg, Bill O'Reilly, Fareed Zakaria, Rupert Murdock, Vivek Wadhwa. These are influential folk from both the left and the right. Except for the far left and the far right (i.e., unions, LGBT crowd, and anti-immigrants, each for their own reasons) no one really appears opposed to the Gang of 8 bill. So I am optimistic, cautiously optimistic, but optimistic nevertheless.

[immitime]

immitime - step away from the ledge my friend. I sincerely hope you were being sarcastic in your post.

There's no need for doom and gloom scenarios. I have recommended this to others. If your life sucks so much without a GC, then maybe you should consider going back to your home country. If you imagine your life will miraculously change with a GC, you are in for a rude shock.

From a day to day perspective for a young / middle-aged person, the only thing that changes with a GC is the sense of security (and a shorter line through customs). I don't want to undermine the sense of security aspect but you should really be focusing on the foundations of your life - family, health and job (in that order). You should take action to improve all those aspects. You can change jobs if you feel you are being victimized in your current job - albeit with some paperwork.

Vizcard,

As some wise man said.. "Truth Hurts" But that is the Truth.. May be some lucky ones like you are in good situation. I am happy for you. But GC gives lot more.. I was not sarcastic.. again Truth Hurts my dear friend.

[Jonty Rhodes]

immitime - step away from the ledge my friend. I sincerely hope you were being sarcastic in your post.

There's no need for doom and gloom scenarios. I have recommended this to others. If your life sucks so much without a GC, then maybe you should consider going back to your home country. If you imagine your life will miraculously change with a GC, you are in for a rude shock.

From a day to day perspective for a young / middle-aged person, the only thing that changes with a GC is the sense of security (and a shorter line through customs). I don't want to undermine the sense of security aspect but you should really be focusing on the foundations of your life - family, health and job (in that order). You should take action to improve all those aspects. You can change jobs if you feel you are being victimized in your current job - albeit with some paperwork.

Vizcard, I agree with what ton_vj said. I can't speak for the engineers or people in IT field but I can speak for physicians. I had 3 promotional offers last year and one of them was in hospital administration. My hospital got affiliated with a bigger health system and they were offering me administrative position but they could hire only green card holders and US citizens due to their internal policy so despite meeting all their qualifications, I could not accept the offer. They were willing to wait for maximum one year in hopes that I will have my GC (PD EB2I May, 2011) by that time but I am sure that I won't get my GC in 1 year so then they will hire somebody else. Also, if you try to move to a big city, one of the most common requirement for physician hiring in those big cities, is being a GC holder or a US citizen. Similarly, if you want to take up a job in a big University Hospital or an Academic Hospital, then being a GC holder and US citizen can be a huge huge advantage. I can tell you this from my own experience.

Physicians suffer even more in terms of obtaining fellowships after their residency training. When I applied for Gastroenterology fellowship, my application was rejected from most of the places and 9 out of 10 rejections had one common reason - "Sorry, we only take Green Card Holders or US citizens. No H1Bs." In fact, one interview invite I received from Houston, TX (by mistake) was cancelled because they realized that I was on visa during a 2nd look at my application.

My life dose not suck without a GC. I am very happy with my current job and have no complaints. I enjoy it fully and have no qualms about the salary, work schedule, life style or the place where I live. But I just wanted to say that GC does not only mean sense of security and short line in customs. Green Card can make a significant difference in terms of career opportunities one may get after being greened, especially for physicians and may be it holds true for other professions as well.

[immitime]

I am optimistic, and the reason is the multitude of names outside congress that have voiced support for the bill as it stands (or at least the general principles): Grover Norquist, Bill Gates, Sean Hannity, Mark Zuckerberg, Bill O'Reilly, Fareed Zakaria, Rupert Murdock, Vivek Wadhwa. These are influential folk from both the left and the right. Except for the far left and the far right (i.e., unions, LGBT crowd, and anti-immigrants, each for their own reasons) no one really appears opposed to the Gang of 8 bill. So I am optimistic, cautiously optimistic, but optimistic nevertheless.

Appreciate your optimism. Thanks for the energiser

[vizcard]

I understand where you are coming from TJ and Jonty. Ofcourse there are limitations to the jobs one can accept. The same applies for me and I'm in management consulting. My only point is that if you have a stable situation, there is no need to whine and bitch and moan. Its unhealthy and moreoever there's nothing you can do about the GC backlogs. You have to be mature about it (and it seems like you are by your cogent and coherent responses). Almost everyone in the EB queue has decent jobs with decent income. It could be better but it could be a lot worse. Like I said earlier, if you feel your life is so terrible, going back is an option just as finding another job is or the good old "suck it up and stay put" option. Instead of spending time on forums, look for other jobs that will improve your situation. (BtW, when I say "you", its a general you ...not you specifically).

My PD is Aug 2008 so I've been waiting a loooong time myself (and I've been in the US since 1999). I have a great opportunity with my Firm to lead a small practice in Singapore....that'll be my fast track to making partner in the US. Making partner means a minimum of 2x increase in income overnight. Because of GC issues its very difficult for me to just accept that job but I refuse to whine about it because I cannot control my GC situation.

[infoseek]

I understand where you are coming from TJ and Jonty. Ofcourse there are limitations to the jobs one can accept. The same applies for me and I'm in management consulting. My only point is that if you have a stable situation, there is no need to whine and bitch and moan. Its unhealthy and moreoever there's nothing you can do about the GC backlogs. You have to be mature about it (and it seems like you are by your cogent and coherent responses). Almost everyone in the EB queue has decent jobs with decent income. It could be better but it could be a lot worse. Like I said earlier, if you feel your life is so terrible, going back is an option just as finding another job is or the good old "suck it up and stay put" option. Instead of spending time on forums, look for other jobs that will improve your situation. (BtW, when I say "you", its a general you ...not you specifically).

My PD is Aug 2008 so I've been waiting a loooong time myself (and I've been in the US since 1999). I have a great opportunity with my Firm to lead a small practice in Singapore....that'll be my fast track to making partner in the US. Making partner means a minimum of 2x increase in income overnight. Because of GC issues its very difficult for me to just accept that job but I refuse to whine about it because I cannot control my GC situation.

That is indeed the right attitude. While I do, and would guess the rest, would agree that life in US with GC is better than one without... it in no way implies that life in US on a visa is a pain or is without opportunity. I would, personally, infer that if an employer is not willing to take that burden and cost of processing my GC / facilitating transfer / refile etc.. then I am not just good enough. This has always served me well whenever I got rejected for any visa /gc related reasons and motivated me to put in more effort... I came here in 2001 and changed 3 jobs refiling my greencard everytime (latest being in 2009). If my situation needs me to change jobs or look for better opportunity I definitely would just get on it rather than giving myself excuses.

[immitime]

Everybody who is on the GC queue--- situation is almost the same. Everybody knows how to take care of their situation, and mature enough to understand that. Its always better to spend time for usefull stuff. Income is not everything in life, there are other parameters. Everything is General here not pointing any of our valuble forum members.

[bvsamrat]

I completely agree. Mainly most of the Non -IT employers who are really not aware of the rules and regulations and leave to their attorney and play very safe by keeping you in same position.

Another important feature, if you are frequent international traveler, GC makes a quite difference and makes your travel easy.






Vizcard, I agree with what ton_vj said. I can't speak for the engineers or people in IT field but I can speak for physicians. I had 3 promotional offers last year and one of them was in hospital administration. My hospital got affiliated with a bigger health system and they were offering me administrative position but they could hire only green card holders and US citizens due to their internal policy so despite meeting all their qualifications, I could not accept the offer. They were willing to wait for maximum one year in hopes that I will have my GC (PD EB2I May, 2011) by that time but I am sure that I won't get my GC in 1 year so then they will hire somebody else. Also, if you try to move to a big city, one of the most common requirement for physician hiring in those big cities, is being a GC holder or a US citizen. Similarly, if you want to take up a job in a big University Hospital or an Academic Hospital, then being a GC holder and US citizen can be a huge huge advantage. I can tell you this from my own experience.

Physicians suffer even more in terms of obtaining fellowships after their residency training. When I applied for Gastroenterology fellowship, my application was rejected from most of the places and 9 out of 10 rejections had one common reason - "Sorry, we only take Green Card Holders or US citizens. No H1Bs." In fact, one interview invite I received from Houston, TX (by mistake) was cancelled because they realized that I was on visa during a 2nd look at my application.

My life dose not suck without a GC. I am very happy with my current job and have no complaints. I enjoy it fully and have no qualms about the salary, work schedule, life style or the place where I live. But I just wanted to say that GC does not only mean sense of security and short line in customs. Green Card can make a significant difference in terms of career opportunities one may get after being greened, especially for physicians and may be it holds true for other professions as well.

[Jonty Rhodes]

I understand where you are coming from TJ and Jonty. Ofcourse there are limitations to the jobs one can accept. The same applies for me and I'm in management consulting. My only point is that if you have a stable situation, there is no need to whine and bitch and moan. Its unhealthy and moreoever there's nothing you can do about the GC backlogs. You have to be mature about it (and it seems like you are by your cogent and coherent responses). Almost everyone in the EB queue has decent jobs with decent income. It could be better but it could be a lot worse. Like I said earlier, if you feel your life is so terrible, going back is an option just as finding another job is or the good old "suck it up and stay put" option. Instead of spending time on forums, look for other jobs that will improve your situation. (BtW, when I say "you", its a general you ...not you specifically).

My PD is Aug 2008 so I've been waiting a loooong time myself (and I've been in the US since 1999). I have a great opportunity with my Firm to lead a small practice in Singapore....that'll be my fast track to making partner in the US. Making partner means a minimum of 2x increase in income overnight. Because of GC issues its very difficult for me to just accept that job but I refuse to whine about it because I cannot control my GC situation.

I agree in total with what you are saying here. I think we all agree that even though we don't have GCs yet, most of us have pretty decent lives so far after we went through the initial struggles and most of us are probably in decent positions as well. We also have options of either going back or "suck it up and stay put" and I agree with them as well. I wrote that paragraph, not to complain about not getting a GC quickly and being stuck in a backlog but mainly to highlight the fact that there are many other advantages of having a green card. Sometimes you feel like whining but then I am already past that phase now. I agree with you and what Q says, that "GC is not everything in life. Concentrate on career and try to advance it." Obviously, sometimes it may be difficult or may not be possible without GC but then if one is determined enough, he/she can still do it once they get their GC. I am gonna end my philosophy lecture here. Working night shifts this week. Gotta get back to work. :o

[axecapone]

All along, I spent time just reading all the intelligent posts at this forum. I never spoke anything simply because I had nothing to offer to the conversations. Great forum with very intelligent posts. Keep up the awesome work folks!!

That being said, I have a different tone about GC: Without a fix to the system, I think GC wait will become an absolute waste of time. Many of us have left our homes, parents and close relatives to live in this country. Our spouses (many of whom are highly qualified) are stuck without a job on H4. You cant make major career changes without GC. You cant start a business without a GC because the risk of a business combined with risk of not getting a GC in time is way too high. Even with all the labor laws in place, there are companies that unethically take advantage of the immigration situation and such immigrants are no minority. There are many more issues and we all know them.

So the question is, given all the above issues, is the wait worth 4-5 year wait? Yes but its borderline. Is it worth a 7-8 year wait (which is basically a big chunk of my prime life)? For me, absolutely not! United States of America will do fine without a CIR but we will suffer and at some point, we need to draw the line and walk away. Just my 2 cents!

[rupen86]

If this amendment is indeed included and passed, it would weaken the chance of passing the bill.

http://www.cnn.com/2013/05/01/politics/same-sex-immigration

[immitime]

If this amendment is indeed included and passed, it would weaken the chance of passing the bill.

http://www.cnn.com/2013/05/01/politics/same-sex-immigration

Track all the amendments until this minute...

http://www.judiciary.senate.gov/legislation/immigration/amendments.cfm

Good read for all of us.

An interesting new book that helps explain the role, struggles, and contributions of immigrants and minorities is “What Foreigners Need To Know About America From A To Z: How to understand crazy American culture, people, government, business, language and more.” It paints a revealing picture of America for those who will benefit from a better understanding. Endorsed by ambassadors, educators, and editors, it also informs Americans who want to learn more about the U.S. and how we compare to other countries around the world on many issues.

As the book points out, immigrants and minorities are a major force in America, as the GOP recently discovered. Immigrants and the children they bear account for 60 percent of our nation’s population growth and own 11 percent of US businesses and are 60 percent more likely to start a new business than native-born Americans. They represent 17 percent of all new business owners (in some states more than 30 percent). Foreign-born business owners generate nearly one-quarter of all business income in California and nearly one-fifth in the states of New York, Florida, and New Jersey.

Legal immigrants number 850,000 each year; undocumented (illegal) immigrants are estimated to be half that number. They come to improve their lives and create a foundation of success for their children to build upon, as did the author’s grandparents when they landed at Ellis Island in 1899 after losing 2 children to disease on a cramped cattle car-like sailing from Europe. Many bring skills and a willingness to work hard to make their dreams a reality, something our founders did four hundred years ago. In describing America, chapter after chapter identifies “foreigners” who became successful in the US and contributed to our society. However, most struggle in their efforts and need guidance, be they in Anytown or Zenith, USA. Perhaps intelligent immigration reform, concerned Americans and books like this can extend a helping hand. http://www.AmericaAtoZ.com

[rupen86]

Track all the amendments until this minute...

http://www.judiciary.senate.gov/legislation/immigration/amendments.cfm

Good read for all of us.

An interesting new book that helps explain the role, struggles, and contributions of immigrants and minorities is “What Foreigners Need To Know About America From A To Z: How to understand crazy American culture, people, government, business, language and more.” It paints a revealing picture of America for those who will benefit from a better understanding. Endorsed by ambassadors, educators, and editors, it also informs Americans who want to learn more about the U.S. and how we compare to other countries around the world on many issues.

As the book points out, immigrants and minorities are a major force in America, as the GOP recently discovered. Immigrants and the children they bear account for 60 percent of our nation’s population growth and own 11 percent of US businesses and are 60 percent more likely to start a new business than native-born Americans. They represent 17 percent of all new business owners (in some states more than 30 percent). Foreign-born business owners generate nearly one-quarter of all business income in California and nearly one-fifth in the states of New York, Florida, and New Jersey.

Legal immigrants number 850,000 each year; undocumented (illegal) immigrants are estimated to be half that number. They come to improve their lives and create a foundation of success for their children to build upon, as did the author’s grandparents when they landed at Ellis Island in 1899 after losing 2 children to disease on a cramped cattle car-like sailing from Europe. Many bring skills and a willingness to work hard to make their dreams a reality, something our founders did four hundred years ago. In describing America, chapter after chapter identifies “foreigners” who became successful in the US and contributed to our society. However, most struggle in their efforts and need guidance, be they in Anytown or Zenith, USA. Perhaps intelligent immigration reform, concerned Americans and books like this can extend a helping hand. http://www.AmericaAtoZ.com

Looks like Hatch has filed entire I-Squared Act as an amendment.

[gs1968]

To viz
I apologize that I was posting all day in the wrong thread-some more tweets

"And @SenatorSessions takes the lead, filing 49 amendments to the immigration bill. That tops the 24 filed by @SenOrrinHatch.

"Reviewing filed amendments. Shocking that @SenatorSessions @ChuckGrassley @SenOrrinHatch are loading up on anti-legalization amndmnts...

"Sessions said in a statement that he won't support the bill w/o his "modest" amendments, which essentially gut the bill…So guess he's a no

[gs1968]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/05/07/immigration-bill-amendments_n_3232641.html?1367966186

[vizcard]

To viz
I apologize that I was posting all day in the wrong thread-some more tweets

"And @SenatorSessions takes the lead, filing 49 amendments to the immigration bill. That tops the 24 filed by @SenOrrinHatch.

"Reviewing filed amendments. Shocking that @SenatorSessions @ChuckGrassley @SenOrrinHatch are loading up on anti-legalization amndmnts...

"Sessions said in a statement that he won't support the bill w/o his "modest" amendments, which essentially gut the bill…So guess he's a no

Gs- you've been awesome. Keep posting all CIR bill specific stuff on the CIR thread.

[rupen86]

I hope gang of 8 remain united in opposing same sex amendment by Leahy.

http://colorlines.com/archives/2013/05/senates_ammendments_draw_battle_lines_on_immigrati ons.html

[qesehmk]

It doesn't matter - this is designed to weaken republican support to the bill. Think about it .. a democrat trying to weaken republican support to the bill. Who would've thunk that!!
I hope gang of 8 remain united in opposing same sex amendment by Leahy.

http://colorlines.com/archives/2013/05/senates_ammendments_draw_battle_lines_on_immigrati ons.html

[vizcard]

It doesn't matter - this is designed to weaken republican support to the bill. Think about it .. a democrat trying to weaken republican support to the bill. Who would've thunk that!!

I think its more to appease the gay rights lobby. Now he can say he tried.

[gcq]

http://news.yahoo.com/immigration-reform-fails-gop-may-doomed-064800254.html

[qesehmk]

Yes. Certainly. Plus it is much more harmful to GOP if immigration reform fails.

Yesterday Chuck Schumer insisted on LGBT immigration. Now when we are talking about immigration - what % is LGBT. So when somebody has to announce this - it is not a good sign.
I think its more to appease the gay rights lobby. Now he can say he tried.

[gcq]

Yes. Certainly. Plus it is much more harmful to GOP if immigration reform fails.

Yesterday Chuck Schumer insisted on LGBT immigration. Now when we are talking about immigration - what % is LGBT. So when somebody has to announce this - it is not a good sign.
LGBT has a very powerful lobby. Democrats bank on them as their reliable vote bank. Democrats will continue to push.. It is upto GOP to deny it to democrats. Again plain politics !

[Ramsen]

http://news.yahoo.com/immigration-reform-fails-gop-may-doomed-064800254.html


Probably not. They will keep the house unless they got some other issues. Even CIR passes democrats will win as the bill is pushed mainly by democrats. After CIR GOP need to wait many years. But again if immigration issue is not raised at the time of elections and if GOP played soft they can get some more votes and also Latino group turnover may be lesser. I cannot buy the point that GOP will lose house because of latino votes. Of course it is nice to get vote from them to improve their tally

[gs1968]

http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2013/05/10/van-hollen-sees-boehner-allowing-immigration-vote/

The article is vague and again he is not committing on what will come up for vote.

The House Judiciary sub-committee is holding hearings this week on both the AG Bill and E-verify Bill on May 16th

http://judiciary.house.gov/hearings/hearing113.html

This is puzzling since the E-Verify hearing was held already in February of this year

http://freebeacon.com/trust-but-e-verify/

[girish989]

Hello Guys - does anybody know what this means -

USCIS Menu(http://www.uscis.gov/portal/site/uscis/menuitem.749cabd81f5ffc8fba713d10526e0aa0/?vgnextoid=ef26d8f4a80a8310VgnVCM100000b92ca60aRCR D&vgnextchannel=ef26d8f4a80a8310VgnVCM100000b92ca60a RCRD#Immigrant) of Potential Immigrant (EB-1 & EB-2) or Nonimmigrant Visa Pathways for Foreign Entrepreneurs.

USCIS intends to expand(http://www.uscis.gov/portal/site/uscis/menuitem.5af9bb95919f35e66f614176543f6d1a/?vgnextoid=2b6be424ac48e310VgnVCM100000082ca60aRCR D&vgnextchannel=68439c7755cb9010VgnVCM10000045f3d6a1 RCRD) Entrepreneurs in Residence Initiative (ERI) program that can open additional pathways to various employment/investment related immigrant and nonimmigrant visa pathways. Read on.



I saw this on immigration-law.com/

[immitime]

http://news.yahoo.com/immigration-reform-fails-gop-may-doomed-064800254.html

Nothing will happen to GOP... because most of the educated Americans are against giving Amnesty to 11 million.. (the path to citizenship) So if immigration reform fails it will harm Democrats only.. (but this administration will do some executive order at that point that too only for dreamers and illegals). Again A country's immigration is only Legal immigration.. they should not give amnesty every 20 years to accomodate illegals (by keeping the legals hostages by democrats!). Most of the illegals won't work after they are legalised and they will be on welfare. Think about the big picture. Politicians wants the issue to be alive, they don't wan't to solve it. Most of the Senators and Congressmen's were lawyers in their previous profession. So any person can imagine what will happen.

[seahawks2012]

There were no updates posted to the CIR Senate Judiciary Page about the amendments today. What is the frequency in which this get debated?

[gs1968]

There were no updates posted to the CIR Senate Judiciary Page about the amendments today. What is the frequency in which this get debated?

I think all the amendments considered yesterday were updated already.The next Executive Business Meeting is on May 14 (Tuesday) and there should be further updates then

[gs1968]

The most recent press release shows that Sen.Leahy after concurring with Sen.Grassley is going to address Title 4 regarding non-immigrant visas on May 14th

http://www.leahy.senate.gov/press/senate-judiciary-committee-to-continue-consideration-of-immigration-reform-next-week

Interestingly I spelt 4 in Roman numerals and I got 2 asterisks as it is the same name as the other immigration website!

[seahawks2012]

The most recent press release shows that Sen.Leahy after concurring with Sen.Grassley is going to address Title 4 regarding non-immigrant visas on May 14th

http://www.leahy.senate.gov/press/senate-judiciary-committee-to-continue-consideration-of-immigration-reform-next-week

Interestingly I spelt 4 in Roman numerals and I got 2 asterisks as it is the same name as the other immigration website!

Thank you GS. Good data point:
"Leahy said the Committee will again meet on Tuesday and Thursday of next week, and future days as needed to complete consideration of the bipartisan legislation before the Memorial Day recess."

[gcq]

Thank you GS. Good data point:
"Leahy said the Committee will again meet on Tuesday and Thursday of next week, and future days as needed to complete consideration of the bipartisan legislation before the Memorial Day recess."
Title 4 amendments will be "truly" bipartisan. Anti-immigrants like Grassley want to mess up with non-immigrant visas. Union leaning democrats want it too. So it will be bipartisan for sure. Watch out !

[gs1968]

If waiting for a Green Card is exhausting and one is looking for new places to immigrate-this is another option to consider

http://www.foxnews.com/science/2013/05/11/78000-apply-for-private-mars-colony-project/?intcmp=features

[vizcard]

If waiting for a Green Card is exhausting and one is looking for new places to immigrate-this is another option to consider

http://www.foxnews.com/science/2013/05/11/78000-apply-for-private-mars-colony-project/?intcmp=features

There's a per country limit though. So you won't be able to go there for 40 yrs.

[gs1968]

Another teaser article but no definite timeline
http://thehill.com/blogs/hillicon-valley/technology/299157-rep-issa-given-major-role-in-house-gops-immigration-push

[gs1968]

Sen.Portman on immigration
http://www.newsrecord.org/news/campus/portman-discusses-immigration-reform-at-uc/article_6c9eff24-ba7d-11e2-a6b7-001a4bcf6878.html

Portman (R-Ohio) said he’s not in favor of mass deportation, a topic brought up by some Republican candidates during the 2012 elections, and he is not in favor of general amnesty for all illegal immigrants. Rather, he is in favor of reform that is somewhere between those two ends of the spectrum.

I keep hearing this a lot from the Republicans.What are they trying to say? Is this where the Bill is headed?

[vizcard]

Sen.Portman on immigration
http://www.newsrecord.org/news/campus/portman-discusses-immigration-reform-at-uc/article_6c9eff24-ba7d-11e2-a6b7-001a4bcf6878.html

Portman (R-Ohio) said he’s not in favor of mass deportation, a topic brought up by some Republican candidates during the 2012 elections, and he is not in favor of general amnesty for all illegal immigrants. Rather, he is in favor of reform that is somewhere between those two ends of the spectrum.

I keep hearing this a lot from the Republicans.What are they trying to say? Is this where the Bill is headed?

Republicans dont want illegals to have citizenship. that's the hang up. they are ok with RPI status or even LPR status - just no citizenship.

[gs1968]

To vizcard
Another fence-sitter with no clear views expressed one way or the other
http://www.whby.com/index.php/News/WHBY_News/102345

On an optimistic note he may be one of the more persuadable yes votes in the GOP but it is too late in the Senate to split the package.

The real fight is in the House

http://trailblazersblog.dallasnews.com/2013/05/immigration-reps-louie-gohmert-lamar-smith-and-steve-stockman-join-pushback-against-gang-of-eight-plan.html/

[GC4ALL]

Hi Gurus,

Please clarify, whether the CIR 2013 will create a big issue for all H1B employees working in the client site under EC or EVC model as given in the CIR Bill (H1B Outplacement section, Page 684 ad 685), it is really sensationalised in TOI

http://prashanthiblog.com/prashanthiblog/post/2013/04/18/Comprehensive-Immigration-Reform-Bill-and-Its-H-1B-Provisions.aspx

http://www.ogletreedeakins.com/publications/2013-04-29/immigration-reform-2013%E2%80%94update

http://articles.timesofindia.indiatimes.com/2013-05-08/outsourcing/39115344_1_h-1b-indian-embassy-comprehensive-immigration-reform-bill

[qesehmk]

This is going to mean a surge in green card filing by Indian IT companies. That will allow them to place candidates at client site.

On another note - this provision actually will reduce the exploitation and abuse of H1B employees. So I don't understand what is the cause for worry?

Finally - i am sure that eventually this will be a forward looking provision rather than retroactive (in the final bill). So hopefully that will rule out any impact on existing H1Bs.

The entire CIR is too good to be true. So even if CIR were to pass with this kind of amendment ... that CIR will be extremely positive to all backlogged countries and candidates.



Hi Gurus,

Please clarify, whether the CIR 2013 will create a big issue for all H1B employees working in the client site under EC or EVC model as given in the CIR Bill (H1B Outplacement section, Page 684 ad 685), it is really sensationalised in TOI

http://prashanthiblog.com/prashanthiblog/post/2013/04/18/Comprehensive-Immigration-Reform-Bill-and-Its-H-1B-Provisions.aspx

http://www.ogletreedeakins.com/publications/2013-04-29/immigration-reform-2013%E2%80%94update

http://articles.timesofindia.indiatimes.com/2013-05-08/outsourcing/39115344_1_h-1b-indian-embassy-comprehensive-immigration-reform-bill

[immitime]

CIR could help Legal immigrants as per this publication.

http://www.thirdway.org/publications/692

[gs1968]

To GC4ALL
please pay attention to the amendment process this week.Senator hatch has a number of amendments proposed to bring the Bill more in line with the I-squared Act but it is doubtful if the democrats and/or Senator Grassley will agree.These may come up for discussion on Thursday

http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/wireStory/high-tech-pushes-immigration-bill-19172062?page=2#.UZGZSspxrQg

http://news.yahoo.com/business-labor-spar-over-high-skill-visas-immigration-005508823.html

[vizcard]

Hi Gurus,

Please clarify, whether the CIR 2013 will create a big issue for all H1B employees working in the client site under EC or EVC model as given in the CIR Bill (H1B Outplacement section, Page 684 ad 685), it is really sensationalised in TOI

http://prashanthiblog.com/prashanthiblog/post/2013/04/18/Comprehensive-Immigration-Reform-Bill-and-Its-H-1B-Provisions.aspx

http://www.ogletreedeakins.com/publications/2013-04-29/immigration-reform-2013%E2%80%94update

http://articles.timesofindia.indiatimes.com/2013-05-08/outsourcing/39115344_1_h-1b-indian-embassy-comprehensive-immigration-reform-bill


This is going to mean a surge in green card filing by Indian IT companies. That will allow them to place candidates at client site.

On another note - this provision actually will reduce the exploitation and abuse of H1B employees. So I don't understand what is the cause for worry?

Finally - i am sure that eventually this will be a forward looking provision rather than retroactive (in the final bill). So hopefully that will rule out any impact on existing H1Bs.

The entire CIR is too good to be true. So even if CIR were to pass with this kind of amendment ... that CIR will be extremely positive to all backlogged countries and candidates.

Yes it will affect the outplacement model but as Q points out - in a good way. Downside is that fewer companies (and hence employees) will be eligible for H1s but upside is that those with H1 will be treated well.

I don't quite remember the exact language of the bill, but it appeared to be vague in terms of timing. I haven't read the amendments related to those in detail.

They will take up this topic tomorrow so tune in to the live webcast if you can.

[gcq]

Hi Gurus,

Please clarify, whether the CIR 2013 will create a big issue for all H1B employees working in the client site under EC or EVC model as given in the CIR Bill (H1B Outplacement section, Page 684 ad 685), it is really sensationalised in TOI

http://prashanthiblog.com/prashanthiblog/post/2013/04/18/Comprehensive-Immigration-Reform-Bill-and-Its-H-1B-Provisions.aspx

http://www.ogletreedeakins.com/publications/2013-04-29/immigration-reform-2013%E2%80%94update

http://articles.timesofindia.indiatimes.com/2013-05-08/outsourcing/39115344_1_h-1b-indian-embassy-comprehensive-immigration-reform-bill

This is part of the CIR that was pushed by anti-immigrant: Grassley and Union guy: Durbin. Many lawyers seem to think that big corporations introduced this language. I don't think large corporations like Microsoft supported it. I speculate this is how it might have happened.

This is part of Durbin/Grassley H1B bill they had been pushing for a while. They included that into the CIR. Grassley is anti-immgrant. However what gives traction to this language is the union/Durbin who is probably the second ranking democratic leader in Senate after Schumer.

Parties that were involved in high skill part of CIR is Compete America( all major companies and **). ** founder is from University background. He and the almighty pappu seems to think in the lines of Durbin. If you read their forum, you can easily figure that out. People who should have opposed this, ** or compete america didn't do it because it didn't affect their agenda.

Consulting companies on the other hand dealt with laws against them with the attitude, "it doesn't affect me, it will only affect small companies". When law was made applicable to all kind of consulting companies, there were none representing their interests in the negotiation process.

Lawyers who cry foul against the law targeting consulting companies, didn't do anything to even fight the Jan 8 memo. All they did was to come up with some sort of document after 1 month after the memo came out. AILA is not willing to do anything about it. They just cry foul when they are going to lose a large chunk of their business.

IMO if you are concerned about this law in CIR, why wait till CIR ? Move over to some full time position and take care of yourself !

[abcx13]

This is part of the CIR that was pushed by anti-immigrant: Grassley and Union guy: Durbin. Many lawyers seem to think that big corporations introduced this language. I don't think large corporations like Microsoft supported it...

Wrong. http://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/05/us/politics/tech-firms-take-lead-in-lobbying-on-immigration.html?pagewanted=all


Companies like Facebook and Intel use them largely to bring workers to their own offices. Consulting companies like Tata, based in India, use them to supply computer workers at American banks, oil companies and sometimes software firms.

Critics of H-1B visas point out that they mostly bring workers at the lowest pay scales. The technology industry’s main rivals in these negotiations were lawmakers who have long been critical of guest worker visa programs, chiefly Senator Richard J. Durbin, Democrat of Illinois, and groups that represent American engineers.

Silicon Valley lobbyists told Senate negotiators they agreed that the H1-B visa system had been subject to abuse. Go after the companies that take advantage of guest worker visas and give us the benefit of the doubt, they told the Senate staff members, according to interviews with several lobbyists.

“You know and we know there are some bad people in this system,” is how Scott Corley, the president of Compete America, a technology industry coalition, recalled the conversation. “We are simply trying to make sure that as they are pursuing the rats they are not sinking the ship.”

That acknowledgment, several lobbyists said privately, helped unlock an impasse in negotiations.

What emerged was a Senate measure that allows American technology companies to procure many more skilled guest worker visas, raising the limit to 110,000 a year from 65,000 under current law, along with a provision to expand it further based on market demand. The bill would also allow these companies to move workers on guest visas more easily to permanent resident visas, freeing up more temporary visas for these companies.

But it requires them to pay higher wages for guest workers and to post job openings on a Web site, so Americans can have a chance at them. And it draws a line in the sand between these technology firms and the mostly Indian companies that supply computer workers on H-1B visas for short-term jobs at companies in the United States.

“This provision accomplishes the goal of discouraging abuse of the program while providing an important incentive for companies to bring top talent to work in the United States for the long-term, where they will contribute to our economy,” said Mr. Kaplan, the former Republican White House aide who is now the vice president for United States public policy at Facebook.

The bill is written in such a way that it penalizes companies that have a large share of foreign guest workers among their United States work forces, eventually making it impossible for them to bring in any more. It allows large American companies that have many more American workers to continue to import workers. And it includes a provision that exempts from the guest worker count those employees that companies sponsor for green cards, essentially a bonus to American businesses like Facebook whose work forces are growing fast.

Companies that provide temporary foreign workers say the move is intended to push them out of the American market.

These companies, mostly based in India, have far less good will on Capitol Hill. Their hope now rests with convincing lawmakers that it would be counterproductive to punish them.



I fully support these provisions. Will keep bodyshoppers out and the H1Bs that come will be treated better and have more opportunities.

[qesehmk]

abcx - i never thought I would say this - but I really agree with you on this one! I think it will be good for Indians and good for Americans.

The only thing I don't like here is that it gives unfair advantage to American IT companies. But then Indian IT companies never had the guts to become truly engineering companies. Such a shame and hence I wouldn't complain about that either.

I fully support these provisions. Will keep bodyshoppers out and the H1Bs that come will be treated better and have more opportunities.

[gcq]

Wrong. http://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/05/us/politics/tech-firms-take-lead-in-lobbying-on-immigration.html?pagewanted=all



I fully support these provisions. Will keep bodyshoppers out and the H1Bs that come will be treated better and have more opportunities.
H1Bs coming to US ?
Route1: Through the same consulting companies
Route2: Education route ( which is illegal as per the current law)

These laws will block the first route. That is all what it does.
As for consulting companies guts, I will say they don't have the guts to stand up for themselves.
Consulting companies are in consulting business. There is no point comparing against Microsoft/Googles. They are 2 different business models.

[gs1968]

This from Senator Rubio's office
"Rubio "disappointed" Judiciary Comm rejected Sessions' biometric database amendment, will "fight to add" it on Senate floor, office says"

[Ramsen]

abcx - i never thought I would say this - but I really agree with you on this one! I think it will be good for Indians and good for Americans.

The only thing I don't like here is that it gives unfair advantage to American IT companies. But then Indian IT companies never had the guts to become truly engineering companies. Such a shame and hence I wouldn't complain about that either.

For more than one decade Indian companies had unfair advantage by hiring only Indians with much lower rates than American companies. Also those who were working on Indian companies had job security with guranteed green card. If this provisons are done then everyone will become almost equal and talent will be rewarded more

[gs1968]

After all the positive energy today-a needlessly downbeat article

http://www.politico.com/story/2013/05/house-immigration-group-at-impasse-91374.html?hp=f2

BTW-I felt today that the committee both Republicans and Democrats piled on the H-1B Program.Did other forum members feel the same?

[rupen86]

After all the positive energy today-a needlessly downbeat article

http://www.politico.com/story/2013/05/house-immigration-group-at-impasse-91374.html?hp=f2

BTW-I felt today that the committee both Republicans and Democrats piled on the H-1B Program.Did other forum members feel the same?

It is a good article. I won't say needless. It is just pointing to the reality. It looks too real. Obviously, house group has problems coming up with the bill and it is not sure if they would come with that at all or not. There was another article where Gutierrez had said if bill does not come by end of the month then it won't come at all. I do not know whether it is a good thing or bad thing. If house ends up taking the senate bill, this is not such a bad thing.

[feedmyback]

Correct me if I am wrong but all it takes for the consulting companies (big or small) to not be treated as a H1-B dependent employer is just to apply labor/I-140 for their employees just to make sure their (H1 + L1) count is less than 15% right? An amendment by Grassley related to this was also defeated yesterday.

So as per CIR as of today, all EC,EVC should be fine as long as the employer makes sure to apply Labor/I140 for at least 85% of his workforce and pays 500$ for each employee that is in EC or EVC model. Am I missing anything here? Agreed that it is not an easy task for any company to make sure that at least 85% of its employees are on GC path. But still it is not a dead end.


Wrong. http://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/05/us/politics/tech-firms-take-lead-in-lobbying-on-immigration.html?pagewanted=all



I fully support these provisions. Will keep bodyshoppers out and the H1Bs that come will be treated better and have more opportunities.

[abcx13]

Correct me if I am wrong but all it takes for the consulting companies (big or small) to not be treated as a H1-B dependent employer is just to apply labor/I-140 for their employees just to make sure their (H1 + L1) count is less than 15% right? An amendment by Grassley related to this was also defeated yesterday.

So as per CIR as of today, all EC,EVC should be fine as long as the employer makes sure to apply Labor/I140 for at least 85% of his workforce and pays 500$ for each employee that is in EC or EVC model. Am I missing anything here? Agreed that it is not an easy task for any company to make sure that at least 85% of its employees are on GC path. But still it is not a dead end.

Um, the PERM has to be approved and then the employee can file 485 immediately if there is no backlog so the EVC loses leverage over the employee and that's probably why they're not going to apply in the first place.

[rupen86]

http://thehill.com/homenews/house/299623-rep-steve-king-senate-immigration-reform-bill-worse-than-obamacare

Even though the article is against the reform, look at the last para where Steve king says that they would produce some kind of amnesty bill in the conference which would be put on the floor for up or down vote. This seems like where it is heading which seems a good thing.

[feedmyback]

Agreed... eventually the employee will have the upper hand and that is good.


Um, the PERM has to be approved and then the employee can file 485 immediately if there is no backlog so the EVC loses leverage over the employee and that's probably why they're not going to apply in the first place.

[gs1968]

To abcx13 & feedmyback
The Bill is quite punitive and it appears like the Indian IT firms were foremost in their minds when they wrote this part of the Bill.

http://blog.fosterquan.com/2013/05/

[gcq]

http://thehill.com/homenews/house/299623-rep-steve-king-senate-immigration-reform-bill-worse-than-obamacare

Even though the article is against the reform, look at the last para where Steve king says that they would produce some kind of amnesty bill in the conference which would be put on the floor for up or down vote. This seems like where it is heading which seems a good thing.
That article summaries what Steve King is !
Steve King's comments or thoughts has no value in this CIR. He can think whatever he likes, no one is going to care. If they were to consider any of his comments in drafting the bill, CIR will be dead on arrival. The only thing CIR proponents need to watch out is the campaign by likes of NUSA.

[gcq]

Correct me if I am wrong but all it takes for the consulting companies (big or small) to not be treated as a H1-B dependent employer is just to apply labor/I-140 for their employees just to make sure their (H1 + L1) count is less than 15% right? An amendment by Grassley related to this was also defeated yesterday.

So as per CIR as of today, all EC,EVC should be fine as long as the employer makes sure to apply Labor/I140 for at least 85% of his workforce and pays 500$ for each employee that is in EC or EVC model. Am I missing anything here? Agreed that it is not an easy task for any company to make sure that at least 85% of its employees are on GC path. But still it is not a dead end.

Applying for GC was never an issue with small and medium consulting companies. Companies that didn't file GC was Indian firms like TCS, Infosys( They didn't want onsite employees to jump ship) and American consulting companies ( They generally are not immigration friendly).

[gs1968]

A tweet I just saw
"A House Judiciary aide says the committee will hold a hearing on the Senate immigration bill next week."

Link is here-http://judiciary.house.gov/hearings/113th/hear_05222013_2.html

[gs1968]

To gcq
I agree with you that people and firms are not potted plants and will adapt to new regulations and move on. The main concern is if the larger firms start changing their business model to decrease boots on the ground here or start hiring US citizens and GC holders and increase off-shoring. This might choke off the steady supply of ship-jumpers to the small/medium sized companies who lure them with the carrot of a Green Card.Also if wait/processing times improve as a result of this Bill then the endless hook of an EB-3 application may not work.It remains to be seen how much of the current restrictions remain in the final Bill and how the USCIS rule-making & implementation affects this

[justvisiting]

I wonder if with the current controversies surrounding the President (IRS targeting the Tea Party, the AP scandal, and the Benghazi scandal) the Republicans "smell blood" and will not pass CIR to prvenet Obama from gaining a political victory of any kind.

[gs1968]

Still negotiating on the H-1B visas


http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2013/05/15/hatch-schumer-negotiating-high-technology-visas-immigration/2162389/

The article seems to imply more of the "good faith" efforts and some technicalities of the hiring decisions.It does not appear like the out-placement provisions or the H1b dependent vs non-dependent issues are at discussion stage.It seems ironic that the larger US-based tech firms who are not h-1B dependent are being treated more favorably than the Indian IT firms.I believe this is mainly because the Indian firms lobbying efforts were not effective or timely

[abcx13]

Still negotiating on the H-1B visas


http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2013/05/15/hatch-schumer-negotiating-high-technology-visas-immigration/2162389/

The article seems to imply more of the "good faith" efforts and some technicalities of the hiring decisions.It does not appear like the out-placement provisions or the H1b dependent vs non-dependent issues are at discussion stage.It seems ironic that the larger US-based tech firms who are not h-1B dependent are being treated more favorably than the Indian IT firms.I believe this is mainly because the Indian firms lobbying efforts were not effective or timely

Positive sign IMO. If they can satisfy Hatch's concerns, they should get his vote I would think.

[gcq]

To gcq
I agree with you that people and firms are not potted plants and will adapt to new regulations and move on. The main concern is if the larger firms start changing their business model to decrease boots on the ground here or start hiring US citizens and GC holders and increase off-shoring. This might choke off the steady supply of ship-jumpers to the small/medium sized companies who lure them with the carrot of a Green Card.Also if wait/processing times improve as a result of this Bill then the endless hook of an EB-3 application may not work.It remains to be seen how much of the current restrictions remain in the final Bill and how the USCIS rule-making & implementation affects this
These legislation will help the interest of anti-immigrants, not the pro-union folks like Durbin/Democrat. Net result is even more outsourcing. IMO off shoring companies don't need that many H1s and L1s here. These H1s/L1s are here because they can bill clients at a higher rate when they are onsite. These companies will need only a few managers and team leads here who can be GC holders and citizens. From what I have seen citizens won't mind heading this companies as long as they get a decent paycheck. So more outsourcing, democrats and unions lose, anti-immigrants win.

Another point I see is Grassley and co can better target immigrants when they are fulltime employees of these large corporation. Remember the TARP restrictions on companies for H1s ? Consulting companies were able to bypass these restrictions as they were not funded by TARP but executing their projects.

[kuku82]

Where are we with the standoff between Hatch and Durbin wrt tech visas? Were all issues resolved yesterday or are they working on it behind the scenes?

[rupen86]

Rubio splits with gang on some amendments.

http://thehill.com/homenews/senate/299773-strain-shows-between-rubio-gang-of-eight-on-immigration

[indiani]

I think the way the battles are fought for this huge and complicated bill, its very unlikely that it gets to obama's desk this year, may be by next summer. the longer it drags on the smaller the chances are that it will ever becomes law.
almost everyone thinks that it can pass senate but passing in house with citizenship clause will be a "miracle".
overall chances this becoming law is less than 50%

[gs1968]

The time has come-make or break tomorrow! Hopefully just posturing

http://www.politico.com/story/2013/05/john-carter-immigration-91422.html

[bvsamrat]

So be it. IMHO- In fact this single step would reduce all future back logs and numbers will be back to normal without any other provisions at all

If comes back again, let them have a separate route.



H1Bs coming to US ?
Route1: Through the same consulting companies
Route2: Education route ( which is illegal as per the current law)

These laws will block the first route. That is all what it does.
As for consulting companies guts, I will say they don't have the guts to stand up for themselves.
Consulting companies are in consulting business. There is no point comparing against Microsoft/Googles. They are 2 different business models.

[gs1968]

Just to lighten things up-I enjoyed this

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2013/05/baby-lightens-mood-at-tense-house-hearing/

On a different note-is being a Yoda a promotion or demotion for me?

[vizcard]

On a different note-is being a Yoda a promotion or demotion for me?

It just means the force is strong within you

[rupen86]

The time has come-make or break tomorrow! Hopefully just posturing

http://www.politico.com/story/2013/05/john-carter-immigration-91422.html

It is ridiculous that even though they agree on 95% of things, they are ready to let this go for 5%.

[immitime]

Just to lighten things up-I enjoyed this

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2013/05/baby-lightens-mood-at-tense-house-hearing/

On a different note-is being a Yoda a promotion or demotion for me?

gs1968

I think this is done by number of postings on forums, You can see after 300 posts everyone is a Yoda. :-)

[immitime]

It is ridiculous that even though they agree on 95% of things, they are ready to let this go for 5%.

That is exactly the politics or Politricks is for.. Nothing is passed, but only debate spending the tax payers money. Wasted time.

[gs1968]

To vizcard and immitime
Thanks for the kind words

To viz
Thankfully we live in the USA and not one of these places

http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2013/05/16/184444451/twitter-users-risk-damnation-say-saudi-religious-police

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/middleeast/2013/05/2013515122729865611.html

Also the Senate should move on the Bill fairly quickly according to Sen.Reid

http://washingtonexaminer.com/senate-debate-on-immigration-reform-bill-could-start-first-week-of-june/article/2529828?custom_click=rss

[idiotic]

Also the Senate should move on the Bill fairly quickly according to Sen.Reid

http://washingtonexaminer.com/senate-debate-on-immigration-reform-bill-could-start-first-week-of-june/article/2529828?custom_click=rss


And they will... Sen. Leahy announced at close of today's meeting that next meeting is on Monday(instead of regular tuesday/thursdays) and they will work late evenings to finish all amedments so that the bill can be printed in memorial day weekend :)

[gs1968]

And they will... Sen. Leahy announced at close of today's meeting that next meeting is on Monday(instead of regular tuesday/thursdays) and they will work late evenings to finish all amedments so that the bill can be printed in memorial day weekend :)

Their sense of urgency is not shared by the House and it is not expected to just take up the Senate Bill and pass it

http://thehill.com/homenews/house/300185-boehner-house-must-act-on-immigration-reform

[idiotic]

Their sense of urgency is not shared by the House and it is not expected to just take up the Senate Bill and pass it

http://thehill.com/homenews/house/300185-boehner-house-must-act-on-immigration-reform

One step at a time. House is a different story altogether.

For now, the next task is to finish with the 220 remaining amendments and get it upto senate floor. Only 80 done so far.

[gs1968]

Finally some agreement in the House

http://thehill.com/homenews/house/300329-house-immigration-group-announces-agreement-in-principle

[rupen86]

Finally some agreement in the House

http://thehill.com/homenews/house/300329-house-immigration-group-announces-agreement-in-principle

Yes, I was going to post it. Seems there will be action in house also then.

[vizcard]

http://m.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2013/05/17/immigration-bills-48-passed-amendments-heres-what-they-do/

Washington Post summary on adopted amendments.

[gs1968]

To vizcard
Before you start following tomorrow's CIR proceedings on Twitter,please spend a few moments reading the following article

http://www.bizpacreview.com/2013/05/17/saudi-arabian-religious-leader-damns-twitter-users-to-hell-70098

Saudi religious police chief Sheikh Abdul Latif Abdul Aziz al-Sheikh “said anyone using social media sites – and especially Twitter – ‘has lost this world and his afterlife’

PS-With the House also deciding to release their own CIR Bill-I see nothing new to discuss on the topic till the fall if and when both chambers go to conference.In the meantime we will keep ourselves occupied with stories like the above

[gs1968]

While on the topic of immigration-I felt proud to read this article and this is exactly what the USA needs

http://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2013/05/18/saratoga-teens-research-takes-science-world-by-storm/

[vizcard]

To vizcard
Before you start following tomorrow's CIR proceedings on Twitter,please spend a few moments reading the following article

http://www.bizpacreview.com/2013/05/17/saudi-arabian-religious-leader-damns-twitter-users-to-hell-70098

Saudi religious police chief Sheikh Abdul Latif Abdul Aziz al-Sheikh “said anyone using social media sites – and especially Twitter – ‘has lost this world and his afterlife’

PS-With the House also deciding to release their own CIR Bill-I see nothing new to discuss on the topic till the fall if and when both chambers go to conference.In the meantime we will keep ourselves occupied with stories like the above

he'll have to get in a long time of ppl damning me to hell :)

[gcq]

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/tech/tech-news/outsourcing/US-immigration-bill-may-force-jobs-to-be-shipped-overseas-Silicon-Valley-executives-say/articleshow/20155126.cms


SAN FRANCISCO: The technology industry got much of what it wanted in a bill that overhauls federal immigration law.

But in the give-and-take of political bargaining, the legislation emerged with some provisions the industry considers unappealing. Now its lobbyists are feverishly working to get rid of them.

Whether it gets its way could shape, in part, the fate of the overall package — and with it, the fate of millions of migrants to this country.




The industry is unlikely to actively sabotage the bill if it does not get its way. It could, though, stop supporting the cause, as it has enthusiastically done this year. A well-financed group led by Facebook's chief executive, Mark Zuckerberg, has backed television advertisements for Republicans who support the immigration overhaul. A "virtual march" is planned for Wednesday; the event is intended to mobilize tech employees to bombard Congress with automated messages in favor of the bill.

[geterdone]

http://www.leahy.senate.gov/press/judiciary-committee-holds-fourth-markup-on-comprehensive-immigration-reform-

"I believe that given the extensive discussion and debate we have already engaged in during the last two weeks, we should be able to complete Committee consideration of this historic legislation on Wednesday. To do so, we will need to work extended hours today and tomorrow. If our work is not completed by Wednesday night, we will continue on Thursday and, if necessary, on Friday. "

[seahawks2012]

http://www.grassley.senate.gov/news/Article.cfm?customel_dataPageID_1502=45925

Sen. Grassley has proved himself to be anti-H1-B program as whole:

“Over the last week we’ve had a productive conversation on getting immigration reform right for the long-term. From our national security to our economic well-being, there is a lot at stake. We can’t afford to make the same mistakes as we made in 1986. We have to do it the right way. Some amendments have been adopted that make the bill a little better. But despite the thoughtful debate we’ve had this week, many good amendments, even ones that the majority of members have agreed with, have been voted down. Unfortunately, e-verify won’t be mandatory for probably six years. And, we can’t assure high-skilled Americans that they won’t be shoved aside for a foreign worker on an H-1B visa with less or equal skills. Too often, we advocate for increased visa allocations without understanding the heart of the problem. We need to do a better job of ensuring that the companies who need the visas get them. We need to do a better job of oversight.

“Americans deserve a plan that secures the border, enforces the rule of law, and protects American workers, and we have a responsibility to deliver that as the committee moves forward next week.”

[immitime]

USCIS against Senate immigration bill.. Most of them as officers in USCIS are Majigas...aloha aloha.. hola hola. No wonder there is no administration fix...probably all these people got amnesty last time!
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/05/20/uscis-union-says-it-opposes-senate-immigration-bill/

The text of the statement.
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/interactive/2013/05/20/uscis-union-statement-on-immigration-bill/

[gcq]

USCIS against Senate immigration bill.. Most of them as officers in USCIS are Majigas...aloha aloha.. hola hola. No wonder there is no administration fix...probably all these people got amnesty last time!
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/05/20/uscis-union-says-it-opposes-senate-immigration-bill/

The text of the statement.
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/interactive/2013/05/20/uscis-union-statement-on-immigration-bill/

It is interesting that the so called Immigration officers don't understand the law. They are not policy makers and they have no stake in this reform. They are just employees who are supposed to do their job as federal government instructs them. Fire them all and hire a more competent work force !

[immitime]

It is interesting that the so called Immigration officers don't understand the law. They are not policy makers and they have no stake in this reform. They are just employees who are supposed to do their job as federal government instructs them. Fire them all and hire a more competent work force !

gcq

The proof is here.. the content in the RFE and the stupid questions as letters these people ask ( I wonder even if they speak English). Previously farm workers joined some community college after getting Amnesty and became USCIS Officers!.

[gcq]

http://news.yahoo.com/senators-require-fingerprinting-30-airports-164720558.html


At the same time, officials expressed optimism that agreement was in sight in complex private talks over proposed changes to a section of the legislation relating to H-1B high skilled visas. As drafted, the bill would raise the current cap from 65,000 annually to 110,000, with the possibility of a further rise to 180,000.
Sen. Orrin Hatch, R-Utah, whose state is home to a burgeoning high tech industry, sought changes to reduce the cost and other conditions on firms that rely on highly skilled foreign labor.


Sen. Chuck Grassley, R-Iowa, advanced the drunk-driving amendment, a proposal that stipulates at least one of three convictions must occur after enactment of the law. It cleared on a vote of 17-1.
It appeared unlikely the issue of the high tech visas would be settled formally until Tuesday.


High-tech companies sought a change in the bill's requirement that they show they've tried to recruit U.S. workers before hiring anyone on an H-1B visa. Hatch's original proposal would make the regulation apply only on the firms most heavily dependent on H-1B visas, not on those where 85 percent of the jobs are filled by American citizens.

[gs1968]

Finally an agreement reached on H1B visas

http://www.nationaljournal.com/congress/hatch-schumer-reach-deal-on-high-skilled-workers-in-immigration-bill-20130521

We will have to see if it passes with 10 votes.

Judiciary Committee has made it through 90% of the Gang of 8 bill amendments. Will regroup at 2:30 to finish of the last 10%.
Leahy says they started with 300 amendments, 28 amendments left for the rest of the bill.

[gcq]

http://www.hindustantimes.com/world-news/NorthAmerica/US-engineers-seek-rejection-of-H1B-visas-expansion/Article1-1059902.aspx

Old news

In a statement issued on Monday, IEEE-USA - the largest American body
of professional engineers asked the Senate Judiciary Committee to reject amendments to the comprehensive immigration bill that would increase H-1B temporary visa numbers, weaken safeguards for US and foreign workers and facilitate the outsourcing of American jobs.

"Outsourcing is damaging to US workers and the American economy. We need laws that promote US job growth, not encourage it to leave our shores," IEEE-USA president Marc Apter said.

"We encourage the Senate to maintain the high-tech provisions as written," said Apter.

[gcq]

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/power-players-abc-news/sen-jeff-sessions-almost-singlehandedly-trying-derail-gang-122157872.html


When it comes to immigration reform, perhaps no senator has been more vocal about their displeasure with the newest bill, drafted by the group of bipartisan senators known as the "Gang of Eight," than Sen. Jeff Sessions (R-Ala.)--the Republican many blame for the defeat of the last immigration reform bill in 2008.

“This bill, written by the 'Gang of Eight,' without public process, that stacked in the committee and determined to move it through with little or no changes, it,” Sessions said.

But many pro-immigration reform voices are suspicious that the 49 amendments Sessions has filed, second only to the whopping 77 amendments filed by Sen. Chuck Grassley (R-Iowa), are designed to kill the bill rather than change it. Sessions says that's not so.

[gcq]

From **:
On the green card side, here are the positive changes in the Hatch-Schumer amendment -

1.) Allow filing Adjustment of status when the visa number is not available per the visa bulletin meaning EB applicants can file I-485 concurrently with I-140, as soon as the labor certification is approved. 6 months after filing I-485, EB applicants can change jobs/employers.

2.) If you change the job on AC21, your petitioning employer cannot withdraw immigrant petition. People have to go through all sorts of head-ache and risk changing jobs on AC21 due to the fear of backlash of the employer.

These two changes are designed to allow people to change jobs/employers quickly.

Because employers cannot have more than 15% employees on H-1, employers will have an incentive to apply for green cards quickly, meaning getting labor certifications quickly, meaning having the ability to change jobs/employers quickly, without risking green card petition.

Hope this makes sense.

[immitime]

The real problem rather than 11 million illegal is same sex marriage amendment inclusion. The real hindrance is same sex marriage in the Senate.. Congress only GOD knows what all new things comes...
Each dog is seeing the fire hydrant and ready to lift the leg... many many many amendments to come.. Sen Cronnyn already said he don't want to vote in this present state.. In the floor he will try to improve with his own interests.. so around 70 Senators will do the same.

[seahawks2012]

While this bill is being actively negotiated in Senate, there has been no news from the House about immigration reform bill or bills. Does this mean House is playing 'wait n see' for the CIR bill in Senate?

[immitime]

Senate Judiciary committee approves immigration bill.. votes 13 yes and 5 nays..

[qesehmk]

A positive move ...
http://firstread.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/05/21/18404605-leahy-withholds-amendment-to-include-lgbt-couples-in-immigration-reform?lite

[vizcard]

While this bill is being actively negotiated in Senate, there has been no news from the House about immigration reform bill or bills. Does this mean House is playing 'wait n see' for the CIR bill in Senate?

House will publish their own bill

[gs1968]

To seahawks

The House situation is in crash and burn mode

http://www.politico.com/story/2013/05/house-immigration-talks-hang-on-health-care-91709.html?hp=t3_3

On a different note I really thought that Sen.Cornyn would vote yes on the final Bill.Sen.Hatch sided with the conservatives with most amendments except for the one he wanted.
At least the consensus opinion is that there will be no roadblocks to full debate on the Senate Floor.

If we want to get a feel for the House Judiciary committee's views on the Senate Bill, a hearing is scheduled for tomorrow

http://judiciary.house.gov/news/2013/05212013_2.html

Clearly the witness list is more tilted to the right than one would expect in the Senate

[rupen86]

From **:
On the green card side, here are the positive changes in the Hatch-Schumer amendment -

1.) Allow filing Adjustment of status when the visa number is not available per the visa bulletin meaning EB applicants can file I-485 concurrently with I-140, as soon as the labor certification is approved. 6 months after filing I-485, EB applicants can change jobs/employers.

2.) If you change the job on AC21, your petitioning employer cannot withdraw immigrant petition. People have to go through all sorts of head-ache and risk changing jobs on AC21 due to the fear of backlash of the employer.

These two changes are designed to allow people to change jobs/employers quickly.

Because employers cannot have more than 15% employees on H-1, employers will have an incentive to apply for green cards quickly, meaning getting labor certifications quickly, meaning having the ability to change jobs/employers quickly, without risking green card petition.

Hope this makes sense.

Inclusion of this amendment is a big win for us. The exclusion of this in the original bill was very surprising and frustrating.

[gcq]

Inclusion of this amendment is a big win for us. The exclusion of this in the original bill was very surprising and frustrating.
Agree, this is big. This will let us off the H1B label quickly which is what makes our life hell here.

[Jonty Rhodes]

I guess this was expected in Republican controlled House.

http://www.heraldonline.com/2013/05/22/4885154/key-house-chairman-slams-senate.html

Statement of House Judiciary Committee Chairman Rep. Bob Goodlatte

http://judiciary.house.gov/news/2013/Statement%2005222013.html

[gs1968]

The House is the place to watch.This legislation will pass on Republican terms only

"THE LEDE: House Judiciary Committee Chairman Bob Goodlatte (R-Va.) and Rep. Darrell Issa (R-Calif.) will unveil an immigration bill that will boost the number of visas for highly skilled workers at an event Thursday morning.

The Supporting Knowledge and Investing in Lifelong Skills, called the Skills Act for short, includes many policy measures that the tech industry has lobbied for. Representatives from the Consumer Electronics Association and Compete America are slated to speak in favor of the bill at the event.

Issa's bill is the third piece of immigration legislation that's been put forward in the House Judiciary Committee this year. Goodlatte has said he wants to tackle immigration reform in a piecemeal fashion by introducing bills that cover each issue in the larger debate.

The Skills Act will be introduced before a bipartisan group of eight House members puts forward comprehensive immigration reform legislation, which will also cover modified rules for high-skilled workers. After months of secret negotiations, the bipartisan group reached an "agreement in principle" on legislation last week and its members are furiously working to finalize bill text.

The two separate bills have made tech companies question which piece of legislation will be put to a vote on the floor.

A draft copy of Issa's measure shows it would significantly increase the number of H-1B visas available to highly skilled workers and make 55,000 green cards available to foreign graduates of U.S. universities with advanced degrees in STEM disciples (science, technology, math and engineering). It would also increase the fees that employers would pay for H-1B visas and green cards, and the additional money would go towards a fund dedicated to improving STEM education funds in the U.S.

However, Democrats may find fault with Issa's bill because it proposes to eliminate the diversity visa program. The Congressional Black Caucus and House Democrats have pushed back against previous attempts to cut the program, which awards visas by a random selection process to countries with low rates of immigration to the U.S.

[gs1968]

To Jonty Rhodes
I watched a recording of the hearing yesterday and it was not as negative as the headline might suggest. There is definitely more enthusiasm to be expected on the Democratic side than on the GOP. Apart from the usual immigration hawks-some GOP members of the Committee especially Spencer Bachus of Alabama were more receptive and reasonable. However the GOP has a 6 member majority in the House Judiciary Committee and we will need more help from the GOP members to get amendments through.
This from the CSM today

http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Politics/2013/0522/Immigration-reform-A-step-forward-in-Senate-a-leap-back-in-House-video?nav=87-frontpage-entryLeadStory

There was another hearing which did not get much attention in the drama surrounding the Senate proceedings and will need to be watched carefully.This is the fight for the agricultural workers

http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Politics/2013/0522/Immigration-reform-A-step-forward-in-Senate-a-leap-back-in-House-video?nav=87-frontpage-entryLeadStory

http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2013/05/22/4057397/farmers-hope-immigration-bill.html

[gs1968]

What I have been able to learn so far about the House High-Tech Bill introduced this AM by Reps.Issa & Goodlatte

http://techcrunch.com/2013/05/23/congress-crowdsourcing-new-high-skilled-immigration-bill-contribute-here/

The text of the Bill is here

http://www.scribd.com/doc/143131145/The-SKILLS-Visa-Act

The total number of immigrant visas increases to 235000 by absorbing the eliminated DV lottery and FB sibling category. There is an extra 25000 visas for spouses and children. I am unable to clearly understand the country cap requirements on Page 52 and 53 as I am still at work and do not have the time to compare with the INA

PS-Saw this tweet on Rep.Issa's virtual chat which confirms the removal of per-country cap

"the #SKILLSVisa Act eliminates the per-country caps. Provides fairness by individual, not by country"

[Spectator]

What I have been able to learn so far about the House High-Tech Bill introduced this AM by Reps.Issa & Goodlatte

http://techcrunch.com/2013/05/23/congress-crowdsourcing-new-high-skilled-immigration-bill-contribute-here/

The text of the Bill is here

http://www.scribd.com/doc/143131145/The-SKILLS-Visa-Act

The total number of immigrant visas increases to 235000 by absorbing the eliminated DV lottery and FB sibling category. There is an extra 25000 visas for spouses and children. I am unable to clearly understand the country cap requirements on Page 52 and 53 as I am still at work and do not have the time to compare with the INA

PS-Saw this tweet on Rep.Issa's virtual chat which confirms the removal of per-country cap

"the #SKILLSVisa Act eliminates the per-country caps. Provides fairness by individual, not by country"The text of the Bill is also here http://judiciary.house.gov/news/2013/ISSA_058_xml.pdf

[gs1968]

Thanks Spec
More info here

http://thehill.com/blogs/hillicon-valley/technology/301327-issa-readies-immigration-bill-that-would-boost-visas-for-high-skilled-workers-cut-diversity-visas

Some highlights

1.green cards would first be made available to foreign graduates with Ph.D.s from American universities in the so-called STEM fields (science, technology, engineering and math). Any remaining green cards would go to graduates with master's degrees in those technical disciplines.

2. Increases the H-1B visa cap to 155,000 from the existing cap of 65,000.

3. It would also increase the number of visas set aside for foreign graduates with advanced degrees from American universities that are exempt from the visa cap. The bill would boost that number to 40,000 visas from the existing limit of 20,000.

4.It would authorize spouses of green card holders to work in the U.S ( I think they mean H-1B visa holders and not Green card holders)

5.Eliminate the per-country cap for employment-based visas.

6.Set aside 10,000 green cards for entrepreneurs who have secured at least $500,000 from a venture capital firm or at least $100,000 from an angel investor.

[gs1968]

A couple of tweets

"It's all good," says Raul Labrador in House #immigration agreement. But others decline comment as they leave meeting.

Eric cantor-The House remains committed to fixing our broken immigration system, but we will not simply take up and accept the bill from the Senate.

[vedu]

House Speaker John Boehner promised Thursday that the House would pass its own version of immigration reform.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/post-politics/wp/2013/05/23/boehner-dont-ask-me-how-house-immigration-reform-will-happen/

[qesehmk]

It means House will pass EB reforms legislation (most likely ex all or some of FB).


House Speaker John Boehner promised Thursday that the House would pass its own version of immigration reform.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/post-politics/wp/2013/05/23/boehner-dont-ask-me-how-house-immigration-reform-will-happen/

[gs1968]

This is further confirmation of above posts.And unlike previous claims-it appears like all the House Senior Leadership members and Judiciary committee members are on the same page

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2013/05/23/House-Leadership-commits-to-regular-order-on-immigration?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

[gs1968]

I found 2 articles with quotes from Mr.Boehner & Ms.Pelosi indicating house passage of legislation and possible conferencing in August

http://www.rollcall.com/news/house_immigration_bill_back_on_track_say_bipartisa n_negotiators-225114-1.html

"She (Ms.Pelosi)told reporters she is hopeful a bill can move to conference with the Senate before the August recess."

http://www.miamiherald.com/2013/05/23/3413289/house-immigration-group-resolves.html

"Officials said Boehner has privately said he hopes to have a bill through the House by August, though there is no strategy yet on what it would include"

[vizcard]

I found 2 articles with quotes from Mr.Boehner & Ms.Pelosi indicating house passage of legislation and possible conferencing in August

http://www.rollcall.com/news/house_immigration_bill_back_on_track_say_bipartisa n_negotiators-225114-1.html

"She (Ms.Pelosi)told reporters she is hopeful a bill can move to conference with the Senate before the August recess."

http://www.miamiherald.com/2013/05/23/3413289/house-immigration-group-resolves.html

"Officials said Boehner has privately said he hopes to have a bill through the House by August, though there is no strategy yet on what it would include"


I'll believe it when I see a draft bill first

[rupen86]

Thanks Spec
More info here

http://thehill.com/blogs/hillicon-valley/technology/301327-issa-readies-immigration-bill-that-would-boost-visas-for-high-skilled-workers-cut-diversity-visas

Some highlights

1.green cards would first be made available to foreign graduates with Ph.D.s from American universities in the so-called STEM fields (science, technology, engineering and math). Any remaining green cards would go to graduates with master's degrees in those technical disciplines.

2. Increases the H-1B visa cap to 155,000 from the existing cap of 65,000.

3. It would also increase the number of visas set aside for foreign graduates with advanced degrees from American universities that are exempt from the visa cap. The bill would boost that number to 40,000 visas from the existing limit of 20,000.

4.It would authorize spouses of green card holders to work in the U.S ( I think they mean H-1B visa holders and not Green card holders)

5.Eliminate the per-country cap for employment-based visas.

6.Set aside 10,000 green cards for entrepreneurs who have secured at least $500,000 from a venture capital firm or at least $100,000 from an angel investor.

Senate bill seems much better than this one because I do not see following things.

1) Recapture
2) Not counting dependents
3) Not counting EB1 and some EB2 people against quota
3) Early filing of 485

[gs1968]

To viz

This might help to cement your skepticism

http://www.politico.com/story/2013/05/house-immigration-talks-91849.html

[kkruna]

Excellent rebuttal of K Palinkas of USCIS Union:

http://blog.cyrusmehta.com/

[gcq]

Excellent rebuttal of K Palinkas of USCIS Union:

http://blog.cyrusmehta.com/
Good one !
This site many times comes up with powerful and well thought about articles.

[chengisk]

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-250_162-57586209/senate-immigration-reform-bill-lacks-enough-votes-to-pass-senator-says/

Sen. Menendez: 'Immigration reform bill lacks enough votes'
Sen. Hatch: 'I will add more amendments later'
Spk. Boehner: 'House will work it's will'

Hope they come to a settlement soon!

[gs1968]

The only reason I post this link is because Senator Heller may be a possible yes vote.He already has a stake in the legislation due to the High-tech provisions

http://m.reviewjournal.com/opinion/both-parties-must-work-fix-system#disqus_thread

[seahawks2012]

When would the CIR bill be taken up in Senate floor?

Looking at the Senate calendar, the work days are: July 1- July 5 (except July 4th); Aug 1 - Sep 6 (except Sep 2); Oct 14-18;
http://www.senate.gov/pagelayout/legislative/one_item_and_teasers/2013_schedule.htm

The earliest this would take up for vote would be in August '13 ...

[gs1968]

To seahawks
The Senate will start on June 10th according to Sen.Reid's spokesman and will be voted on before July 4

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-05-28/senate-democrats-plan-july-10-start-on-immigration-bill.html

The House is a different story as they will only unveil their package at around the time the Senate starts floor proceedings. They will then start hearings/markups/amendments/reporting etc and I am not quite sure that Ms.Pelosi's optimism is justified

http://www.suntimes.com/news/sweet/20378242-452/lynn-sweet-immigration-reform-deal-could-pass-by-august-nancy-pelosi-says.html

[indiani]

[QUOTE=gs1968;35622]To seahawks
The Senate will start on June 10th according to Sen.Reid's spokesman and will be voted on before July 4


It almost certainly might pass senate.

The House is a different story as they will only unveil their package at around the time the Senate starts floor proceedings. They will then start hearings/markups/amendments/reporting etc and I am not quite sure that Ms.Pelosi's optimism is justified

Boehner will not take S 744 , he will introduce "House gang of 8" bill, it might not be voted upon until the end of the year an chances of passing are far less than senate as there will be republican primaries and almost all republicans will not vote for amnesty.

You can call me pessimist or realist, the Odds of CIR becoming law are less than 10%.
I have attended meeting with congressman on behalf of ** and have been actively involved in lobbying for a while.

[indiani]

To seahawks
The Senate will start on June 10th according to Sen.Reid's spokesman and will be voted on before July 4

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-05-28/senate-democrats-plan-july-10-start-on-immigration-bill.html

The House is a different story as they will only unveil their package at around the time the Senate starts floor proceedings. They will then start hearings/markups/amendments/reporting etc and I am not quite sure that Ms.Pelosi's optimism is justified

http://www.suntimes.com/news/sweet/20378242-452/lynn-sweet-immigration-reform-deal-could-pass-by-august-nancy-pelosi-says.html

Politicians always sound optimistic to raise money and to appease base. The speaker and committee both will try their best to kill the bill by dragging it and putting poison amendments which democrats find unacceptable., its far easy to kill a bill rather than to pass

[gcq]

I have attended meeting with congressman on behalf of ** and have been actively involved in lobbying for a while.
Are you being pessimist based on your recent meetings or the ones you had in the past ?

[ROCK72]

Maybe just some reason for a little bit of optimism....

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887323336104578499401237720168.html?m od=googlenews_wsj

[immitime]

Politicians always sound optimistic to raise money and to appease base. The speaker and committee both will try their best to kill the bill by dragging it and putting poison amendments which democrats find unacceptable., its far easy to kill a bill rather than to pass

I will ask another counter question for this.. Why this so called democrats want same sex marriage and Illegal immigration and a big comprehensive bill. If at all the bill fails in congress it would be the above two reasons.. They can very well fix the Legal immigration the political climate is always good for that.. Democrats made Legal immigration hostage for their selfishness and vice versa about republicans...

So moral of the story is Politicians do not want to solve the issue. They want the issue always lingering.. so that they can make advantage for their benefits.. (Lobby money.. or Farmhouse in Texas)

[indiani]

Are you being pessimist based on your recent meetings or the ones you had in the past ?

met our congressman along with few other guys from the lobbying group, he isn't interested in anything that has citizenship for illegals, he is OK for everything else and u know that obama will veto anything that doesn't have pathway to citizenship and harry reid won't bring to voting anything wihtout citizenship clause but that just one congressman from Red district

[indiani]

I will ask another counter question for this.. Why this so called democrats want same sex marriage and Illegal immigration and a big comprehensive bill. If at all the bill fails in congress it would be the above two reasons.. They can very well fix the Legal immigration the political climate is always good for that.. Democrats made Legal immigration hostage for their selfishness and vice versa about republicans...

So moral of the story is Politicians do not want to solve the issue. They want the issue always lingering.. so that they can make advantage for their benefits.. (Lobby money.. or Farmhouse in Texas)

Illegal immigrants belong to lower socio economic status so when they become citizens vast majority will vote Dem, also the latinos will like to have significant portion of the voting block so they like people of their ethnic group become citizens.

I am from india but personally i do not like people who belong to my race or anyother race who came here get citizenship in 13 yrs when I MAY get in 20 years if I am lucky

[vizcard]

Illegal immigrants belong to lower socio economic status so when they become citizens vast majority will vote Dem, also the latinos will like to have significant portion of the voting block so they like people of their ethnic group become citizens.

I am from india but personally i do not like people who belong to my race or anyother race who came here get citizenship in 13 yrs when I MAY get in 20 years if I am lucky

i generally agree with what you said. I will add one thing though. If you give someone a RPI status without a path to citizenship, that is wrong. It would be like being on a permanent H1B. I don't really care about the timeline to become citizens. Senate said 13, House says 15 yrs...to me it doesn't matter as long as all legals get there first.

Purely based on the logic of the bill, no illegal will get permanent residency before a legal. Ergo no illegal will get citizenship before a legal. Plus the Senate bill makes it 3 yrs rather than 5 yrs post GC to apply for citizenship (assuming you've been in the US for 10 yrs).

[immitime]

Illegal immigrants belong to lower socio economic status so when they become citizens vast majority will vote Dem, also the latinos will like to have significant portion of the voting block so they like people of their ethnic group become citizens.

I am from india but personally i do not like people who belong to my race or anyother race who came here get citizenship in 13 yrs when I MAY get in 20 years if I am lucky

If The President really wants this bill to be passed. He should now take leadership and have compromise between the two parties, as bipartisan. He will never do that because his party cannot blame the other party if the bill passes. So intention is visible as DAYLIGHT! Just for votes and selfishness lot of families suffers.

When people are getting citizenship within 6 yeras what to talk about 13 years... Immigration should be only FIFO... otherthings can be considered later, and they should not tie immigration with employers. This is only one view point which I favour. Opinions can be different for different people.

[qesehmk]

The last I checked - that's how politics is supposed to work - groups of people exacting their influence on political parties.

Instead of blaming latinos or any other immigrant groups - EB immigrants should unite and exercise their power. If we get into the mentality of blaming XYZ for their luck then its a slippery slope that then pits EB1 against EB2 vs EB3 & Indians vs ROW vs Chinese... and US graduates vs non-US graduates. And physicians vs IT folks. And then within IT infosys vs qualcomm vs google --- debate.

Folks there is no end to it. Be happy for others and work towards your own happiness without blaming others.



Illegal immigrants belong to lower socio economic status so when they become citizens vast majority will vote Dem, also the latinos will like to have significant portion of the voting block so they like people of their ethnic group become citizens.

I am from india but personally i do not like people who belong to my race or anyother race who came here get citizenship in 13 yrs when I MAY get in 20 years if I am lucky

[indiani]

If The President really wants this bill to be passed. He should now take leadership and have compromise between the two parties, as bipartisan. He will never do that because his party cannot blame the other party if the bill passes. So intention is visible as DAYLIGHT! Just for votes and selfishness lot of families suffers.

When people are getting citizenship within 6 yeras what to talk about 13 years... Immigration should be only FIFO... otherthings can be considered later, and they should not tie immigration with employers. This is only one view point which I favour. Opinions can be different for different people.

Visa recapture bill died few yrs ago even though it would have granted GC to many EB esp from India, all of them highly educated non-criminal tax paying people. not many people or politicians in this country cared.
But suddenly 11 million people some of whom have questionable jobs and whatever federal taxes they pay is extremely low compared with the resources they consume by having dozen kids all of whom will be on medicaid, food stamps and go to public schools, all 11 million getting ciitzenship with burden of paying EXORBIANT 2000$ fine is human rights issue and they dont want to get anything less than citizenship.

Lot of us waiting for GC 13+ yrs will be happy with just GC..

[gcq]

met our congressman along with few other guys from the lobbying group, he isn't interested in anything that has citizenship for illegals, he is OK for everything else and u know that obama will veto anything that doesn't have pathway to citizenship and harry reid won't bring to voting anything wihtout citizenship clause but that just one congressman from Red district
One congressman doesn't decide the issue. It is the majority that matters. I have been a constituent of an anti-immigrant congressman who is against all kind of immigration who also voted against HR 3012. I have also been a constituent of pro-legal immigration congressman who has pretty much co-sponsored all our bills. IMO your congressman's opinion alone doesn't count. If you were a constituent of Steve King, you will see no chance of immigration reform for the next 1000 years. Fortunately democracy works on majority. So there is hope.

[indiani]

The last I checked - that's how politics is supposed to work - groups of people exacting their influence on political parties.

Instead of blaming latinos or any other immigrant groups - EB immigrants should unite and exercise their power. If we get into the mentality of blaming XYZ for their luck then its a slippery slope that then pits EB1 against EB2 vs EB3 & Indians vs ROW vs Chinese... and US graduates vs non-US graduates. And physicians vs IT folks. And then within IT infosys vs qualcomm vs google --- debate.

Folks there is no end to it. Be happy for others and work towards your own happiness without blaming others.

Q, i have donated several hundrerds of my after tax money for lobbying and have spent several hours personally and also requesting all my relatives and friends to lobby for CIR many of whom already have GC.
I was expressing my opinion, however I have spend so many pain staking hrs lobbying even though CIR might not impact me personally with 2007 PD in EB2I

[indiani]

One congressman doesn't decide the issue. It is the majority that matters. I have been a constituent of an anti-immigrant congressman who is against all kind of immigration who also voted against HR 3012. I have also been a constituent of pro-legal immigration congressman who has pretty much co-sponsored all our bills. IMO your congressman's opinion alone doesn't count. If you were a constituent of Steve King, you will see no chance of immigration reform for the next 1000 years. Fortunately democracy works on majority. So there is hope.

you are right if Boehner and house committee wants CIR they will have enough Dems and handful of Reps, i did not imply that the chances depend upon my district congresman, in fact as long as they get 50 votes from republicans mostly dems they still can pass but I am not so sure Boehner will do it in timely fasion.

if u look at my previous post I am diligently working for CIR and I realy hope it passes but I am giving my perspective, i spoke to folks who went to WH and met lot of senators who share my level of optimism but they work very hard to get this thing done

[indiani]

i generally agree with what you said. I will add one thing though. If you give someone a RPI status without a path to citizenship, that is wrong. It would be like being on a permanent H1B. I don't really care about the timeline to become citizens. Senate said 13, House says 15 yrs...to me it doesn't matter as long as all legals get there first.

Purely based on the logic of the bill, no illegal will get permanent residency before a legal. Ergo no illegal will get citizenship before a legal. Plus the Senate bill makes it 3 yrs rather than 5 yrs post GC to apply for citizenship (assuming you've been in the US for 10 yrs).

I was taking into account folks on EB3 and some EB2 (including education) who are currently in the system, if CIR passes for future legal immigrants what u said is true. But total time it took for someone who have been here already for 13+ yrs waiting for GC , they sure would have spent total time more compared to lets say someone came in 2011 on visitor visa and never left to become citizens

[qesehmk]

indiani, I admire and respect what you have done.

I also understand the frustration because I have gone through similar pain before I got my own GC. Good luck with your GC. I am sure this is your year.
Q, i have donated several hundrerds of my after tax money for lobbying and have spent several hours personally and also requesting all my relatives and friends to lobby for CIR many of whom already have GC.
I was expressing my opinion, however I have spend so many pain staking hrs lobbying even though CIR might not impact me personally with 2007 PD in EB2I

[vizcard]

If The President really wants this bill to be passed. He should now take leadership and have compromise between the two parties, as bipartisan. He will never do that because his party cannot blame the other party if the bill passes. So intention is visible as DAYLIGHT! Just for votes and selfishness lot of families suffers.

When people are getting citizenship within 6 yeras what to talk about 13 years... Immigration should be only FIFO... otherthings can be considered later, and they should not tie immigration with employers. This is only one view point which I favour. Opinions can be different for different people.

I dont think you can blame the president about wanting to pass it. Bush wanted it done too and failed then. There are politics involved but its not limited to Barack Obama or W. Besides for one reason or another, Obama generates vitriol among Republicans. So any major involvement from him will absolutely kill the bill.

[ROCK72]

S.744 placed on Senate Calender no.80.

http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/CCAL-113scal-2013-06-03/pdf/CCAL-113scal-2013-06-03.pdf

[indiani]

I dont think you can blame the president about wanting to pass it. Bush wanted it done too and failed then. There are politics involved but its not limited to Barack Obama or W. Besides for one reason or another, Obama generates vitriol among Republicans. So any major involvement from him will absolutely kill the bill.

I wish he should have introduced the bill in 2009 instead of obamacare which did not turn out to be very great accomplishment. I think at this point I think he is doing whatever he can abt this. If Rubio/mccain can talk to Boehner/ Goodlatte and cantor and let them bring CIR to the floor, this might become law in fall/winter

[vizcard]

I wish he should have introduced the bill in 2009 instead of obamacare which did not turn out to be very great accomplishment. I think at this point I think he is doing whatever he can abt this. If Rubio/mccain can talk to Boehner/ Goodlatte and cantor and let them bring CIR to the floor, this might become law in fall/winter

CIR will come to the House floor in some shape or form. I honestly hope its the House version of the Bill coz the Senate version has not shot of passing in the House. Ofcourse the issue just like last time will be the Conference at the end of it all. In 2007, the Senate and House both passed their individual bills but couldnt come to a compromise in Conference. Hopefully that doesn't happen this time around. IMO, if the "path to citizenship" issue can be resolved, the Bill will 100% pass.

[immitime]

I dont think you can blame the president about wanting to pass it. Bush wanted it done too and failed then. There are politics involved but its not limited to Barack Obama or W. Besides for one reason or another, Obama generates vitriol among Republicans. So any major involvement from him will absolutely kill the bill.

I agree with you on this.. The President alone cannot do anything.. but he can take the leadership and move the bill further as a catalyst.

As per your other post.. you missed one point SSmarriage.

Path to Citizenship and Same sex marriage are the two major hindrances if at all bill is failing.

[indiani]

CIR will come to the House floor in some shape or form. I honestly hope its the House version of the Bill coz the Senate version has not shot of passing in the House. Ofcourse the issue just like last time will be the Conference at the end of it all. In 2007, the Senate and House both passed their individual bills but couldnt come to a compromise in Conference. Hopefully that doesn't happen this time around. IMO, if the "path to citizenship" issue can be resolved, the Bill will 100% pass.

The chances of bill dying are higher than passing. This is true for most bills introduced esp. in divided congress

There just wont be a law in which there is no "pathway to citizenship" as president will veto it.

[qesehmk]

indiani - I also think that the way gun legislation died is indicative of how immigration is going to go. IMHO gun legislation had a higher chance of passing given how much sandy hook shook american society.

On another note - sometimes I think we lose perspective that CIR is primarily not about EB. It is about FB. It is something that dems have proposed and they have thrown in EB to entice republicans. However if you look at republicans - the cost of passing this will be higher for them than not passing it. Whereas for republicans the incremental benefits of passing EB are not going to offset the costs of passing FB.

Only focusing on FB - republicans are doomed with FB immigrant community one way or other. They had their shot and they lost it under Bush McCain. Now if they support CIR - Obama and his party will permanently seal the deal with latinos. If I were a republican and wanted to play politics with it - I would wait until a republican administration and then do it. That's the best way to minimize damage with existing constituency and gain new ground with new constituency.

Now this is all unfortunate. But I think that's exactly where this all is headed.


The chances of bill dying are higher than passing. This is true for most bills introduced esp. in divided congress

There just wont be a law in which there is no "pathway to citizenship" as president will veto it.

[vizcard]

indiani - I also think that the way gun legislation died is indicative of how immigration is going to go. IMHO gun legislation had a higher chance of passing given how much sandy hook shook american society.

On another note - sometimes I think we lose perspective that CIR is primarily not about EB. It is about FB. It is something that dems have proposed and they have thrown in EB to entice republicans. However if you look at republicans - the cost of passing this will be higher for them than not passing it. Whereas for republicans the incremental benefits of passing EB are not going to offset the costs of passing FB.

Only focusing on FB - republicans are doomed with FB immigrant community one way or other. They had their shot and they lost it under Bush McCain. Now if they support CIR - Obama and his party will permanently seal the deal with latinos. If I were a republican and wanted to play politics with it - I would wait until a republican administration and then do it. That's the best way to minimize damage with existing constituency and gain new ground with new constituency.

Now this is all unfortunate. But I think that's exactly where this all is headed.

I get what you are saying and that's definitely a likely scenario. There is an internal struggle in the GOP itself. The ultra conservative, younger tea party members (anti-immigration) vs right-center, old school folks (pro-immigration for the time being). If they don't resolve that internally, the Dems are going to rule the White House. GOP leadership knows that but the "brats" don't get it. Paul Ryan might be the exception because he's been up close and personal to national elections. Every young GOP guy is either against immigration or indifferent. Ryan and Rubio are the exceptions but even Rubio is backtracking some.

[bieber]

indiani - I also think that the way gun legislation died is indicative of how immigration is going to go. IMHO gun legislation had a higher chance of passing given how much sandy hook shook american society.

On another note - sometimes I think we lose perspective that CIR is primarily not about EB. It is about FB. It is something that dems have proposed and they have thrown in EB to entice republicans. However if you look at republicans - the cost of passing this will be higher for them than not passing it. Whereas for republicans the incremental benefits of passing EB are not going to offset the costs of passing FB.

Only focusing on FB - republicans are doomed with FB immigrant community one way or other. They had their shot and they lost it under Bush McCain. Now if they support CIR - Obama and his party will permanently seal the deal with latinos. If I were a republican and wanted to play politics with it - I would wait until a republican administration and then do it. That's the best way to minimize damage with existing constituency and gain new ground with new constituency.

Now this is all unfortunate. But I think that's exactly where this all is headed.

Q

If Dems really want this to pass, the easiest way is to ensure border control. Why is that pushed back in senate committee knowing House will not accept that condition. Is there a chance they gain politically even if this won't pass by blaming reps? End of the day it's all about votes. Greencard/legalization is not enough, citizenship is must for Dems becuase they want those 70% of new votes to get permanent power.

[rupen86]

I get what you are saying and that's definitely a likely scenario. There is an internal struggle in the GOP itself. The ultra conservative, younger tea party members (anti-immigration) vs right-center, old school folks (pro-immigration for the time being). If they don't resolve that internally, the Dems are going to rule the White House. GOP leadership knows that but the "brats" don't get it. Paul Ryan might be the exception because he's been up close and personal to national elections. Every young GOP guy is either against immigration or indifferent. Ryan and Rubio are the exceptions but even Rubio is backtracking some.

I think that failure of gun bill has helped immigration bill. There was a good article discussing this. Supporting immigration and gun bill at the same time would be too much change for GOP in short time. Immigration bill has fairly good shot than last few years if not decades.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/right-turn/wp/2013/05/29/why-immigration-reform-has-a-shot/

Also, passing immigration bill without path to citizenship won't happen. Democrats will never agree to that. They would not have access to new vote bank if this were to happen. If it was to fail because of that, they can blame on GOP which would not hurt their current standing. While most people would be more than happy to just have some kind of legal status, that does not matter to politicians.

It is not time to get pessimistic before the fight even begins and may I add that I am generally not an optimistic guy.

[qesehmk]

bieber - I don't disagree that issues are good politics for political parties. Otherwise what would they do if they solve everything? !!! So agree that dems also don't want it too badly. They are happy to just keep this issue alive. As per border control - I would disagree w you because the issue is elusive. Border control actually is better under Obama than under bush. Statistics prove that. There is no such thing as 100% control. So that I would say is a perma-topic for republicans to beat a democratic administration.
Q

If Dems really want this to pass, the easiest way is to ensure border control. Why is that pushed back in senate committee knowing House will not accept that condition. Is there a chance they gain politically even if this won't pass by blaming reps? End of the day it's all about votes. Greencard/legalization is not enough, citizenship is must for Dems becuase they want those 70% of new votes to get permanent power.

[kkruna]

My two cents:

1. No one is looking at undocumented for votes; it's rather the votes of existing citizens by way of brethren affiliation.
2. It's mostly staged media in US - and there is money behind pro-immigration this time. If you remember, there was a PAC formed in the aftermath of Presidential elections just for this purpose; the operators know what works. NumberUSA and others were first ones to be painted as ones who espouse minority.
3. The feel that I get from what influential Repubs have been talking in media: they want this done yet retain their conservative base with them. (I dont think they need to worry too much about conservative base. Where would they go? At most some of them would not vote in next elections.)
4. It is not an option for Repubs to try do it under their own regime later. They drop this ball and they wold not get another chance in near future.
5. The irony is that whatever mileage Repubs should get out of supporting it getting destroyed by hatemongerers from NumberUSA and their ilk (check the comments on articles - any immigration news is pounced on by these people using very similar hateful language against hispanics. In India I would feel this is paid effort; I do not know much about US yet).

[gs1968]

CIR will come to the House floor in some shape or form. I honestly hope its the House version of the Bill coz the Senate version has not shot of passing in the House. Ofcourse the issue just like last time will be the Conference at the end of it all. In 2007, the Senate and House both passed their individual bills but couldnt come to a compromise in Conference. Hopefully that doesn't happen this time around. IMO, if the "path to citizenship" issue can be resolved, the Bill will 100% pass.

To viz

In 2007 a conference was never in play as the Senate Bill failed to clear cloture for final vote. The House had a companion Bill called the STRIVE Act co-sponsored by Rep.Luis Gutierrez and Rep.Jeff Flake but the Bill was never taken up in the Judiciary committee.

[rupen86]

My two cents:

1. No one is looking at undocumented for votes; it's rather the votes of existing citizens by way of brethren affiliation.
2. It's mostly staged media in US - and there is money behind pro-immigration this time. If you remember, there was a PAC formed in the aftermath of Presidential elections just for this purpose; the operators know what works. NumberUSA and others were first ones to be painted as ones who espouse minority.
3. The feel that I get from what influential Repubs have been talking in media: they want this done yet retain their conservative base with them. (I dont think they need to worry too much about conservative base. Where would they go? At most some of them would not vote in next elections.)
4. It is not an option for Repubs to try do it under their own regime later. They drop this ball and they wold not get another chance in near future.
5. The irony is that whatever mileage Repubs should get out of supporting it getting destroyed by hatemongerers from NumberUSA and their ilk (check the comments on articles - any immigration news is pounced on by these people using very similar hateful language against hispanics. In India I would feel this is paid effort; I do not know much about US yet).

I believe, undocumented voters are certainly being looked upon as potential future voters once they become citizens. Without that, there would not be so much focus on "path to citizenship". Associated press went as far as calling them "undocumented democrats".

[vizcard]

what one poll says

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2013/05/31/71-percent-of-voters-expect-immigration-reform-to-fail.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+thedailybeast%2Farticles+%28T he+Daily+Beast+-+Latest+Articles%29

[qesehmk]

Viz - the same poll also says 54% people support CIR. And then it says that 71% people don't feel confident that it will actually happen.
what one poll says

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2013/05/31/71-percent-of-voters-expect-immigration-reform-to-fail.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+thedailybeast%2Farticles+%28T he+Daily+Beast+-+Latest+Articles%29

[gs1968]

To Q & Viz
The same Quinnipac poll also said that the support for legalization is down from 59% to 54 %. I am also concerned about the memo from House Majority Leader Eric Cantor to the House GOP about the upcoming agenda in the next few months and GOP priorities-

http://blogs.rollcall.com/goppers/cantor-outlines-busy-june-highlighted-by-appropriations/

There is a passing mention of immigration at the tail end along with the debt limit.This may be in part due to the absence of actual legislative language in hand and the focus may shift once the House Bill is introduced.However tweets from other Republican sources suggest that the immigration issue may not come up in the House till the fall session

[vizcard]

To viz

In 2007 a conference was never in play as the Senate Bill failed to clear cloture for final vote. The House had a companion Bill called the STRIVE Act co-sponsored by Rep.Luis Gutierrez and Rep.Jeff Flake but the Bill was never taken up in the Judiciary committee.

For some reason, I remember reading about that. Maybe it was something else.


Viz - the same poll also says 54% people support CIR. And then it says that 71% people don't feel confident that it will actually happen.

Barely 50% is not overwhelming to force Congress' hand especially in the heavy White, Republican states.


To Q & Viz
The same Quinnipac poll also said that the support for legalization is down from 59% to 54 %. I am also concerned about the memo from House Majority Leader Eric Cantor to the House GOP about the upcoming agenda in the next few months and GOP priorities-

http://blogs.rollcall.com/goppers/cantor-outlines-busy-june-highlighted-by-appropriations/

There is a passing mention of immigration at the tail end along with the debt limit.This may be in part due to the absence of actual legislative language in hand and the focus may shift once the House Bill is introduced.However tweets from other Republican sources suggest that the immigration issue may not come up in the House till the fall session

I don't see the same urgency in the House. So Sept wouldn't surprise me. I always felt nothing would pass in this FY.

[gs1968]

To viz
You were probably thinking about the effort in 2005-2006 in the 109th Congress
The following link is instructive and surprisingly draws a lot of parallels with the current proposals

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comprehensive_Immigration_Reform_Act_of_2006

[qesehmk]

I missed that gs. However it is not surprising. 54% itself is surprising to me given the economic situation.


To Q & Viz
The same Quinnipac poll also said that the support for legalization is down from 59% to 54 %.

[rupen86]

From Oh Law Firm,

RSC calling a meeting on immigration..

http://news.yahoo.com/marco-rubio-address-house-conservatives-immigration-reform-144202946.html

[gcq]

I missed that gs. However it is not surprising. 54% itself is surprising to me given the economic situation.
Economy was not a real factor in immigration. Bad economy plays into the hands of anti-immigrants where they can claim "congress is letting more foreigners in when economy is down". Remember, all these anti-immigrant groups and anti-immigrant lawmakers are "fighting for the American people".

I don't think normal people relate economic issues to immigration.

[indiani]

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/schumer-immigration-pass-july-4-article-1.1361034

chuck schumer prediction on CIR.
But I think all depends on house action as the CIR passing senate isn't surprising issue

[gs1968]

We mourn the loss of Sen.Lautenberg of NJ this AM-he did a lot for immigration especially refugees

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/06/03/nj-sen-lautenberg-dies/

[vizcard]

We mourn the loss of Sen.Lautenberg of NJ this AM-he did a lot for immigration especially refugees

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/06/03/nj-sen-lautenberg-dies/

Does Chris Christie (governor) get to decide who takes his spot ?

[gs1968]

Does Chris Christie (governor) get to decide who takes his spot ?

Yes and it is most likely going to be a Republican.However the duration of how long he might serve is apparently very confusing in NJ State Law. The next election is on Nov 5 this year when Gov.Christie himself is up for re-election

http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2013/06/03/2091771/nj-election-law-disagrees-with-nj-election-law-about-how-long-christies-senate-appointee-will-serve/

This is from The Hill

Senate GOP aides expect New Jersey Gov. Chris Christie (R) to appoint a Republican, and the possibilities include Lt. Gov. Kim Guadagno, state Sen. Tom Kean Jr., who ran against Sen. Robert Menendez (D-N.J.) in 2006 and attorney Bill Palatucci, a longtime friend and adviser to Christie.

[rupen86]

Interesting analysis on border security.

http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2013/06/rubio_immigration_reform_proposal_sees_congress_in _charge_of_border_security.html

[vizcard]

Interesting analysis on border security.

http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2013/06/rubio_immigration_reform_proposal_sees_congress_in _charge_of_border_security.html

If you cannot trust the department of HOMELAND SECURITY with SECURING our borders, our politicians are really getting paranoid. What happens if the next Congress is Democrat and the President is Republican?

[delguy]

I think Rubio is just playing politics. He is part of gang of 8 and had all the means to discuss his concerns and get them addressed before releasing the draft. I also don't remember him sending amendments to the judiciary committee. Now he is saying that border security provisions are not adequate and he won't support the bill in current state.

He just want to have best of both worlds. Trying to take lead on the issue to attract Latinos. And now he can blame democrats for being rigid and get conservatives on his side for taking care of their interests too.

[indiani]

I think Rubio is just playing politics. He is part of gang of 8 and had all the means to discuss his concerns and get them addressed before releasing the draft. I also don't remember him sending amendments to the judiciary committee. Now he is saying that border security provisions are not adequate and he won't support the bill in current state.

He just want to have best of both worlds. Trying to take lead on the issue to attract Latinos. And now he can blame democrats for being rigid and get conservatives on his side for taking care of their interests too.

I think you described his rather pathetic situation.
He intially thought abt general elections for president as Mitt romney lost latino vote.
But here comes the problem, he might not make it through the primary either in presidential elections and may be even with primary challenge for senate with this bill , so he is trying to appease republican base , significant portion of which dont like anytype of bill passed.

[delguy]

Marco Rubio: Immigration Reform Doesn't Have 60 Votes

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/06/04/marco-rubio-immigration-reform-votes_n_3383319.html

hmmmm.... leave others, does it have yours Mr Rubio?

[immitime]

I think you described his rather pathetic situation.
He intially thought abt general elections for president as Mitt romney lost latino vote.
But here comes the problem, he might not make it through the primary either in presidential elections and may be even with primary challenge for senate with this bill , so he is trying to appease republican base , significant portion of which dont like anytype of bill passed.

Take out Same Sex marriage immigration, and 11 million amnesty.. Immigration bill will pass this year. Otherwise it is doubtful. Nothing like Republican party don't like anytype of bills passed. Remember H.R. 3012 was their initiative. Everybody knows by this time Harry Reid intentionally stalled it. So now we know who is Anti LEGAL immigrant... all just for Votes Votes Votes!

[gcq]

I think you described his rather pathetic situation.
He intially thought abt general elections for president as Mitt romney lost latino vote.
But here comes the problem, he might not make it through the primary either in presidential elections and may be even with primary challenge for senate with this bill , so he is trying to appease republican base , significant portion of which dont like anytype of bill passed.

This is a long term problem for GOP presidential candidates now. Unless they are right wing fanatics/nuts, they won't get through the GOP primary. If he gets through GOP primary, he is no longer a good candidate for general public as he is too far to the right. That is one of the reasons Romney failed. In general he is a moderate republican. To appease right wing GOP, he said some things that came back to haunt him during the real election.

[Jonty Rhodes]

This is a long term problem for GOP presidential candidates now. Unless they are right wing fanatics/nuts, they won't get through the GOP primary. If he gets through GOP primary, he is no longer a good candidate for general public as he is too far to the right. That is one of the reasons Romney failed. In general he is a moderate republican. To appease right wing GOP, he said some things that came back to haunt him during the real election.

Can't agree more.

[indiani]

Take out Same Sex marriage immigration, and 11 million amnesty.. Immigration bill will pass this year. Otherwise it is doubtful. Nothing like Republican party don't like anytype of bills passed. Remember H.R. 3012 was their initiative. Everybody knows by this time Harry Reid intentionally stalled it. So now we know who is Anti LEGAL immigrant... all just for Votes Votes Votes!

I believe you know already same sex ammendment not attached. without amnesty there is going to be no bill as obama and senate democratic leadership are doing this whole exercise to appease latinos and to get future voters for generations.

Republicans (far right ones) wanted no immigration bills at all. Democrats on the other hand wanted only CIR and nothing else.

I am not sure whether you followed the visa re-capture bill and HR 3012, how they just died , there was no amnesty .

I am personally involved in 3012, putting both money and time in effort., i was so fed up that I thought i would rather live with EAD as its extremely frustrating to get anything done in washington.

[Jonty Rhodes]

Some more rhetoric from House, this time pro-reform. But I just don't know how they are going to pass the immigration reform by August when they haven't even released the draft of their immigration bill yet. On top of that, the House Republicans are talking about taking a piecemeal approach than comprehensive one which Democrats won't accept. Also, if there is no path to citizenship for illegals, the Democrats won't support it and the bill will die. I know that 2 months is a long time in politics but looking at the current scenario, I just don't see the House passing the immigration reform by August unless some miracle happens.

http://news.yahoo.com/house-could-pass-immigration-bill-august-committee-chairman-165829958.html

[seahawks2012]

Apart from the political drama, all I understand is that: "Obama/Democratic party is holding Legal Immigration improvements hostage for the Latino votes"