Discussion On The Politics of Immigration Reform (Comprehensive Or Otherwise)

[gs1968]

http://www.politico.com/story/2013/03/wh-seeks-techs-help-on-immigration-88539.html

[seahawks2012]

Standard propaganda politics "keeping high-tech immigration hostage while pursuing their own agenda". Wonder if Sen. Grassley would be happy satisfying with "comprehensive immigration" instead of the "H.R. 3012".

[rupen86]

Standard propaganda politics "keeping high-tech immigration hostage while pursuing their own agenda". Wonder if Sen. Grassley would be happy satisfying with "comprehensive immigration" instead of the "H.R. 3012".

I believe he will have his say in h1 component. That seems to be his area. Other than that, I do not think he can influence much. In HR 3012 case, he succeeded in stalling the bill because there was no political will to overcome him which is not the case now.

[rupen86]

This seems to be good news for immigration reform.

http://www.christianpost.com/news/hispanics-of-faith-ask-obama-to-separate-lgbt-issues-from-immigration-reform-91083/

[seahawks2012]

This seems to be good news for immigration reform.

http://www.christianpost.com/news/hispanics-of-faith-ask-obama-to-separate-lgbt-issues-from-immigration-reform-91083/

The only good news for immigration reform is no more conflicts or issues rising. This definitely is not a good news if it means "Comprehensive Immigration" gets blocked as there is far less chance of individual high-skilled immigration passing without comprehensive immigration reform.

[rupen86]

The only good news for immigration reform is no more conflicts or issues rising. This definitely is not a good news if it means "Comprehensive Immigration" gets blocked as there is far less chance of individual high-skilled immigration passing without comprehensive immigration reform.

If LGBT is omitted, it would be more palatable to republicans (which McCain has already said) which means good thing for CIR. I do not know how it can not be good news.

[rupen86]

http://www.producenews.com/index.php/news-dep-menu/test-featured/9777-coming-weeks-vital-to-shaping-bill-on-immigration-reform

[pakkpk]

http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2013/03/08/readout-president-s-meeting-commonsense-immigration-reform

[qesehmk]

May be I am wrong ... but it's interesting that president is calling this "Commonsense" immigration reform rather than "comprehensive". This indicates he is willing to do some compromise and give up the emphasis on "comprehensive". Or may be i am wrong! Who knows!
http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2013/03/08/readout-president-s-meeting-commonsense-immigration-reform

[rupen86]

May be I am wrong ... but it's interesting that president is calling this "Commonsense" immigration reform rather than "comprehensive". This indicates he is willing to do some compromise and give up the emphasis on "comprehensive". Or may be i am wrong! Who knows!


Jeb Bush downplaying differences.
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/03/10/jeb-bush-im-in-sync-with-senate-republicans-on-immigration-reform/

[rupen86]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/plum-line/wp/2013/03/11/a-breakthrough-on-immigration-reform/

[rupen86]

http://www.nationaljournal.com/thenextamerica/immigration/opinion-immigration-reform-faces-hurdles-but-steadily-moves-forward-20130311

[gs1968]

http://dailycaller.com/2013/03/12/senate-democrats-eye-immigration-blitz-after-recess/

[cbordu_111]

http://dailycaller.com/2013/03/12/senate-democrats-eye-immigration-blitz-after-recess/

It's just so unfortunate it is going this route. The CIR again seems doomed.

[rupen86]

It's just so unfortunate it is going this route. The CIR again seems doomed.

Going through the lengthy process may not be beneficial. If CIR has to pass, it has to pass before the summer recess around August. Otherwise, it could meet the same fate as Obama care when it met with angry town hall protests.

[gs1968]

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-immigration-hurdles-20130311,0,4603683.story

The last paragraph says it well
"Muzaffar Chishti, director of the Migration Policy Institute at New York University School of Law, said the real legislative battle over immigration would come after the bill was made public.

"We haven't even begun to see the opposition to the bill," Chishti said. "Because there isn't meat on the bone."

[rupen86]

http://www.rollcall.com/news/senate_immigration_group_may_wait_for_early_april_ to_unveil_deal-223010-1.html?pg=1

Both house and senate bills are expected to be introduced in April.

[rupen86]

Lindsey Graham gets support from Super PAC for immigration effort. This is positive news because it will provide cover for other republicans who plan to support it who might face primary challenges.

http://abcnews.go.com/ABC_Univision/Politics/lindsey-graham-backed-pro-immigration-reform-super-pac/story?id=18718514

[rupen86]

http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/287939-us-chamber-releases-new-website-for-immigration-reform-push

[PD2008AUG25]

The proposed changes to the family system have angered immigration advocates, who warn the move could threaten the chances of a broader reform agreement.

“Eliminating these categories would produce only a small reduction in visas while creating greater hardship for thousands of U.S. citizens and their loved ones,” two dozen members of the House Asian Pacific American caucus wrote in a letter to the eight senators last week. “We oppose any efforts to further limit the definition of family.”


http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/senate-group-considers-large-reduction-in-family-visas-as-part-of-immigration-deal/2013/03/14/90252aae-8be8-11e2-9f54-f3fdd70acad2_story.html

More leaks to gauge temperature. Would be fun to see when entire thing comes out. Everyone will have something to complaint about.

[qesehmk]

This is more sensible policy option. It's absolutely moronic to have very strict restrictions on people who are competent and marketplace wants them and then almost have no controls over family immigration and where the immigrants also don't value the immigration that much and are less likely to contribute to the society since their productive years might be behind.

However i do think that not having any cap on EB is the best way to go. Rather have rules in place that makes sure there is a fair game there that doesn't exploit either the immigrant labor or shortchange of the American labor.

The proposed changes to the family system have angered immigration advocates, who warn the move could threaten the chances of a broader reform agreement.

“Eliminating these categories would produce only a small reduction in visas while creating greater hardship for thousands of U.S. citizens and their loved ones,” two dozen members of the House Asian Pacific American caucus wrote in a letter to the eight senators last week. “We oppose any efforts to further limit the definition of family.”


http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/senate-group-considers-large-reduction-in-family-visas-as-part-of-immigration-deal/2013/03/14/90252aae-8be8-11e2-9f54-f3fdd70acad2_story.html

More leaks to gauge temperature. Would be fun to see when entire thing comes out. Everyone will have something to complaint about.

[geeaarpee]

This is more sensible policy option. It's absolutely moronic to have very strict restrictions on people who are competent and marketplace wants them and then almost have no controls over family immigration and where the immigrants also don't value the immigration that much and are less likely to contribute to the society since their productive years might be behind.

However i do think that not having any cap on EB is the best way to go. Rather have rules in place that makes sure there is a fair game there that doesn't exploit either the immigrant labor or shortchange of the American labor.

How about a flexible cap Q that can be flexible to the economic cycles? I don't think the no cap option will go anywhere close to approval - especially when it comes to EB...

[abcx13]

You know the funny thing in all of these discussions? It's almost as if the concept of opportunity cost doesn't exist for all these people who are advocating greater family reunification, amnesty, etc.

[rupen86]

The proposed changes to the family system have angered immigration advocates, who warn the move could threaten the chances of a broader reform agreement.

“Eliminating these categories would produce only a small reduction in visas while creating greater hardship for thousands of U.S. citizens and their loved ones,” two dozen members of the House Asian Pacific American caucus wrote in a letter to the eight senators last week. “We oppose any efforts to further limit the definition of family.”


http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/senate-group-considers-large-reduction-in-family-visas-as-part-of-immigration-deal/2013/03/14/90252aae-8be8-11e2-9f54-f3fdd70acad2_story.html

More leaks to gauge temperature. Would be fun to see when entire thing comes out. Everyone will have something to complaint about.

Republicans are certainly of the opinion that family green card numbers need to be reduced which would be assigned to EB. Also, they would want to eliminate diversity visa program and assign that to EB. So, it would be like 90k+55k assigned to EB which would double the existing EB numbers without increasing overall numbers. Their give for this would be pathway to citizenship. I think it is a good compromise. This compromise would have opponents from both the parties. It needs to be seen if it gets enough numbers from both the parties.

Labrador however is pessimistic.
http://www.nationaljournal.com/politics/house-republican-pessimistic-that-immigration-reform-will-pass-20130314

[Pedro Gonzales]

Republicans are certainly of the opinion that family green card numbers need to be reduced which would be assigned to EB. Also, they would want to eliminate diversity visa program and assign that to EB. So, it would be like 90k+55k assigned to EB which would double the existing EB numbers without increasing overall numbers. Their give for this would be pathway to citizenship. I think it is a good compromise. This compromise would have opponents from both the parties. It needs to be seen if it gets enough numbers from both the parties.


Well summarized. I am optimistic something gets done by an overwhelming majority of Democrats and a large minority of Republicans in both the Senate and the House.

The Dems absolutely want to get something done for the illegals before they go back to the voters in 18 months. If they have are successful, the Hispanic vote could help them keep the Senate in a tough year (in 2014 again, more Dem Senators are up for election than GOPs, and many of them are from red states), and further even the numbers in the House. So, they are likely to give up on family reunification (immigrants not yet on their shores) in favor of illegals (immigrants here already). Besides, the Mexican/Chinese/Philippino/Indian family reunification folks will be happy enough if the 7% cap is raised to 15% even if it is accompanied with a reduction in a couple of categories.

I don't really see the need for a pathway to citizenship for anyone other than DREAMers. Thinking about it from the perspective of an illegal immigrant, would I want to endanger the possibility of legally staying in the country in search of the vote? I think not. The vast majority of them will be satisfied with a legal framework that allows them to continue to live and work in the US, with citizenship guarantees for any kids and grandkids that they have here.

I think that's where that issue will end up. A special pathway to citizenship just for the DREAM kids, and an opportunity to legally remain in the country and get into line for a GC for the others (either through the EB path - in conjunction with some sort of EB reform that allows lower skill but high demand jobs access to a path to a GC; or through the FB path - assuming they have DREAMer that gain citizenship or US Born kids).

[qesehmk]

Yes. Although it doesn't exist formally - in reality that's how it works. e.g. it was not a coincidence that AC21 was passed in 2000 right at the height of dot com bubble, and then in 2003/4 the unutilized FB visas were given to EB which cleared not only EB2 but EB3 backlog. However now the times are exactly opposite and so EB immigration by itself has zero chance of happening. Which is why it is critical to tag along with FB as part of CIR.
How about a flexible cap Q that can be flexible to the economic cycles? I don't think the no cap option will go anywhere close to approval - especially when it comes to EB...

[rupen86]

Well summarized. I am optimistic something gets done by an overwhelming majority of Democrats and a large minority of Republicans in both the Senate and the House.

The Dems absolutely want to get something done for the illegals before they go back to the voters in 18 months. If they have are successful, the Hispanic vote could help them keep the Senate in a tough year (in 2014 again, more Dem Senators are up for election than GOPs, and many of them are from red states), and further even the numbers in the House. So, they are likely to give up on family reunification (immigrants not yet on their shores) in favor of illegals (immigrants here already). Besides, the Mexican/Chinese/Philippino/Indian family reunification folks will be happy enough if the 7% cap is raised to 15% even if it is accompanied with a reduction in a couple of categories.

I don't really see the need for a pathway to citizenship for anyone other than DREAMers. Thinking about it from the perspective of an illegal immigrant, would I want to endanger the possibility of legally staying in the country in search of the vote? I think not. The vast majority of them will be satisfied with a legal framework that allows them to continue to live and work in the US, with citizenship guarantees for any kids and grandkids that they have here.

I think that's where that issue will end up. A special pathway to citizenship just for the DREAM kids, and an opportunity to legally remain in the country and get into line for a GC for the others (either through the EB path - in conjunction with some sort of EB reform that allows lower skill but high demand jobs access to a path to a GC; or through the FB path - assuming they have DREAMer that gain citizenship or US Born kids).

Although illegals themselves would be satisfied with some legal status, politicians(democrats) do not care about that. Their goal would be to have pathway to citizenship so that they have access to that many voters in the future. I do not agree that democrats would agree to give up on that demand. On family green cards also, it seems difficult that democrats would give up. It would depend on the democratic and republican leadership's approach to the bill. If they decide that they want to advance the bill irrespective of how many members of their party support it, it might end up getting passed with mix of republicans and democrats.

[gcq]

This is more sensible policy option. It's absolutely moronic to have very strict restrictions on people who are competent and marketplace wants them and then almost have no controls over family immigration and where the immigrants also don't value the immigration that much and are less likely to contribute to the society since their productive years might be behind.

However i do think that not having any cap on EB is the best way to go. Rather have rules in place that makes sure there is a fair game there that doesn't exploit either the immigrant labor or shortchange of the American labor.

Though these new proposals may make economic sense, this is a recipe for CIR failure. Family unification lobby is quite strong. They can bring down a CIR. IMO GOP senators are playing a game pitting family reunification against illegals both of which are Democrat's babies. Maybe they are using the family re-unification reduction threat to gain more concession from Democrats for undocumented legalization. If this game goes wrong, CIR can fail !

[qesehmk]

That is a very good observation. Didn't think that way. I agree.
Though these new proposals may make economic sense, this is a recipe for CIR failure. Family unification lobby is quite strong. They can bring down a CIR. IMO GOP senators are playing a game pitting family reunification against illegals both of which are Democrat's babies. Maybe they are using the family re-unification reduction threat to gain more concession from Democrats for undocumented legalization. If this game goes wrong, CIR can fail !

[rupen86]

Although illegals themselves would be satisfied with some legal status, politicians(democrats) do not care about that. Their goal would be to have pathway to citizenship so that they have access to that many voters in the future. I do not agree that democrats would agree to give up on that demand. On family green cards also, it seems difficult that democrats would give up. It would depend on the democratic and republican leadership's approach to the bill. If they decide that they want to advance the bill irrespective of how many members of their party support it, it might end up getting passed with mix of republicans and democrats.

This article beautifully summarizes what I was trying to say here.
http://washingtonexaminer.com/shikha-dalmia-democratic-obstacles-to-immigration-reform/article/2524332

[rupen86]

http://www.christianpost.com/news/hispanic-community-conflicted-over-gay-rights-in-immigration-reform-91875/

[abcx13]

This article beautifully summarizes what I was trying to say here.
http://washingtonexaminer.com/shikha-dalmia-democratic-obstacles-to-immigration-reform/article/2524332


This article was surprisingly well written.

[abcx13]

http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/03/15/bipartisan-house-group-nearing-agreement-on-immigration-blueprint/

[rupen86]

http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Politics/2013/0314/CPAC-surprise-optimism-about-immigration-reform

[rupen86]

http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/03/15/bipartisan-house-group-nearing-agreement-on-immigration-blueprint/

This seems like big news. Considering that there were members like Gutierrez and Labrador who are at opposite end of each other, if they can come up with the bill, it is big thing in itself.

[gs1968]

To rupen86

I guess what you make of what is going on @ CPAC depends on which side of the fence you are on

http://firstread.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/03/14/17312608-conservative-struggle-on-immigration-on-display-at-cpac?lite

The conservative media is still not sold on the amnesty idea although the headline seems a little too strong here

http://www.delawareonline.com/article/20130315/OPINION16/303150003/Gang-Eight-retreats-immigration-amnesty


Finally-I feel that the FB reforms suggested by Sen.Graham will be difficult to enact as the interest lobbies especially in the Latino and Catholic community will target it

http://bostonglobe.com/news/nation/2013/03/14/senate-immigration-bill-may-limit-family-visas/6bQ88AOqHMpneL6gQOM0lK/story.html

The immediate reaction from the powerful Catholic Lobby is unexpected.A more acceptable solution to the FB reforms may be to re-allocate those categories to spouses and children of GC holders

[bvsamrat]

YES. FB Visa other than spouse/dependent children and (parents where the center of gravity is towards the sponsor) is meaningless; IMHO- All others categpries should be removed and I do not think no other country has these in place!


To rupen86

I guess what you make of what is going on @ CPAC depends on which side of the fence you are on

http://firstread.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/03/14/17312608-conservative-struggle-on-immigration-on-display-at-cpac?lite

The conservative media is still not sold on the amnesty idea although the headline seems a little too strong here

http://www.delawareonline.com/article/20130315/OPINION16/303150003/Gang-Eight-retreats-immigration-amnesty


Finally-I feel that the FB reforms suggested by Sen.Graham will be difficult to enact as the interest lobbies especially in the Latino and Catholic community will target it

http://bostonglobe.com/news/nation/2013/03/14/senate-immigration-bill-may-limit-family-visas/6bQ88AOqHMpneL6gQOM0lK/story.html

The immediate reaction from the powerful Catholic Lobby is unexpected.A more acceptable solution to the FB reforms may be to re-allocate those categories to spouses and children of GC holders

[rupen86]

To rupen86

I guess what you make of what is going on @ CPAC depends on which side of the fence you are on

http://firstread.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/03/14/17312608-conservative-struggle-on-immigration-on-display-at-cpac?lite

The conservative media is still not sold on the amnesty idea although the headline seems a little too strong here

http://www.delawareonline.com/article/20130315/OPINION16/303150003/Gang-Eight-retreats-immigration-amnesty


Finally-I feel that the FB reforms suggested by Sen.Graham will be difficult to enact as the interest lobbies especially in the Latino and Catholic community will target it

http://bostonglobe.com/news/nation/2013/03/14/senate-immigration-bill-may-limit-family-visas/6bQ88AOqHMpneL6gQOM0lK/story.html

The immediate reaction from the powerful Catholic Lobby is unexpected.A more acceptable solution to the FB reforms may be to re-allocate those categories to spouses and children of GC holders

There will be opposition from both sides no matter what comes out as a bill from "Gang of eight". There will be amendments but if those amendments are going to change fundamental structure of the bill, the way it went in 2007, it will loose support from the sponsors and then outcome will be uncertain.

[qesehmk]

It's not as meaningless as one may think. FB immigration has a strong economic and cultural aspect. FB immigration is about 1M per year which contributes a minimum of 1/3 % GDP growth while extending the cultural fabric and preserving it at the same time.

p.s. - I was not careful in reading. You were only talking about other catgories! So yes they are not as meaningful. But they neither they are consuming large visas.
YES. FB Visa other than spouse/dependent children and (parents where the center of gravity is towards the sponsor) is meaningless; IMHO- All others categpries should be removed and I do not think no other country has these in place!

[abcx13]

It's not as meaningless as one may think. FB immigration has a strong economic and cultural aspect. FB immigration is about 1M per year which contributes a minimum of 1/3 % GDP growth while extending the cultural fabric and preserving it at the same time.

p.s. - I was not careful in reading. You were only talking about other catgories! So yes they are not as meaningful. But they neither they are consuming large visas.

Two words - opportunity cost.

[rupen86]

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/03/15/us-usa-immigration-congress-idUSBRE92E0WI20130315

[cbordu_111]

http://thehill.com/business-a-lobbying/288535-business-labor-talks-on-immigration-hit-skids-over-visas

This what deralied it once, and this is what is going to derail it again! It just feels like deja vu...

[gs1968]

An interesting take on FB immigration although the author is an immigration lawyer

http://thehill.com/blogs/congress-blog/homeland-security/288493-family-reunification-must-be-part-of-immigration-reform

Also the earlier plans of a post-Easter recess immigration blitz is not on the agenda now as this article seems to suggest Senate vote in the June-July time-frame (more July than June as we all know the pace at which things move in the Senate)
Will it allow enough time for the House to act on the Senate Bill before the August recess? The House Judiciary Committee seems in no rush to get to this as the Chairman has said that it should be a slow and deliberate process

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/03/14/us-usa-congress-immigration-idUSBRE92D1B120130314

"On Thursday, Republican Senator Jeff Flake of Arizona, a member of the group of eight, said he thanked Obama for "playing a role that's behind the scenes."

Flake said the issue of future immigration to the United States is a sticking point for Democrats, and that Obama could build support for that part of the pending immigration bill."

Does this imply that the other issues are sorted out?

[vizcard]

An interesting take on FB immigration although the author is an immigration lawyer

http://thehill.com/blogs/congress-blog/homeland-security/288493-family-reunification-must-be-part-of-immigration-reform

Also the earlier plans of a post-Easter recess immigration blitz is not on the agenda now as this article seems to suggest Senate vote in the June-July time-frame (more July than June as we all know the pace at which things move in the Senate)
Will it allow enough time for the House to act on the Senate Bill before the August recess? The House Judiciary Committee seems in no rush to get to this as the Chairman has said that it should be a slow and deliberate process

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/03/14/us-usa-congress-immigration-idUSBRE92D1B120130314

"On Thursday, Republican Senator Jeff Flake of Arizona, a member of the group of eight, said he thanked Obama for "playing a role that's behind the scenes."

Flake said the issue of future immigration to the United States is a sticking point for Democrats, and that Obama could build support for that part of the pending immigration bill."

Does this imply that the other issues are sorted out?

The real issue will be Senate vs House not within each of the chambers. Both are introducing bills with different priorities when it comes to illegals.

[rupen86]

From Oh Law firm. Don't know why such pessimistic reading by Oh Law firm. May be reporter is referring to reports to cut FB numbers.

03/16/2013: Bleak Future of Comprehensive Immigration Reform Legislation in 2013

After the November 2012 election, this site has spent enormous amount of time to review the issues and bottlenecks for past CIR efforts, including the history of Reagan CIR proposal in 1980s and Kennedy-McCain CIR in 2000's. Shockingly enough, the current CIR players in the Congress and the White House are moving towards a direction more or less copying the past efforts that ended up with a failure. As we suggested, the success to the CIR this time around would depend on these leaders to accept overall increase in "legal" immigrant visa numbers rather than being messed up with power struggles between the Republican and Democratic parties relating to the demographic changes and attempting again to achieve xenophoebic agenda of the immigration reform to contain and control of the number of "legal" immigrants in the long haul. This CIR move in 2013 is doomed to failure. The country may as well focus on piecemeal immigration reform efforts focusing on the reform of the immigration system that can boost the country's economy first. How disappointing these political leaders are. We have lost faith in these political leaders.

[qesehmk]

Perhaps because of this observation ..
.. the success to the CIR this time around would depend on these leaders to accept overall increase in "legal" immigrant visa numbers rather than being messed up with power struggles between the Republican and Democratic parties relating to the demographic changes

I think that's exactly what's happening. Although I am not sure where this is going to land up..

[abcx13]

http://thehill.com/video/senate/288609-durbin-talks-on-border-security-path-to-citizenship-holding-up-immigration-deal

[kd2008]

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/18/us/politics/senate-groups-immigration-plan-would-alter-waiting-periods.html?ref=us

interesting developments. nothing for legals yet.

[rupen86]

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/18/us/politics/senate-groups-immigration-plan-would-alter-waiting-periods.html?ref=us

interesting developments. nothing for legals yet.

I do not see any specific solution here. The article continues to highlight the problems that need to be solved.

[gs1968]

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/03/18/rnc-endorse-immigration-reform-report/

Whether the congressmen/Senators who have to face primaries/elections will heed this report is a different question

[gs1968]

As if things were not difficult already

http://thehill.com/blogs/hillicon-valley/technology/288887-grassley-introduced-h-1b-visa-reform-bill-amid-immigration-reform-discussions

http://www.grassley.senate.gov/news/Article.cfm?customel_dataPageID_1502=45141

On a different note-the I-squared Act has 20 co-sponsors now although the bigger players like Grassley/Schumer/Durbin/Leahy etc have not signed on.Interestingly 13 of the 21 sponsors are first-term senators which may lead one to believe that they may have a different perspective on immigration issues especially EB

[rupen86]

As if things were not difficult already

http://thehill.com/blogs/hillicon-valley/technology/288887-grassley-introduced-h-1b-visa-reform-bill-amid-immigration-reform-discussions

http://www.grassley.senate.gov/news/Article.cfm?customel_dataPageID_1502=45141

On a different note-the I-squared Act has 20 co-sponsors now although the bigger players like Grassley/Schumer/Durbin/Leahy etc have not signed on.Interestingly 13 of the 21 sponsors are first-term senators which may lead one to believe that they may have a different perspective on immigration issues especially EB

This was kind of expected. This is the area that he is most interested in and Durbin is his partner.

The most important one seems to be this.

Ensures that an H-1B application filed by an employer that employs 50 or more U.S. workers will not be accepted unless the employer attests that less than 50 percent of the employer’s workforce are H-1B and L visa holders.

[gs1968]

The fight is only just beginning

http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2013/03/18/immigration-hearing-pits-family-against-economy/

Presidential ambitions?
http://www.politico.com/story/2013/03/rand-paul-to-endorse-path-to-citizenship-89052.html?hp=r7

Senator Grassley starting to appear increasingly in the picture

http://www.rollcall.com/news/rnc_immigration_push_has_its_skeptics-223230-1.html?pos=oplyh

Another article by a conserva-skeptic

http://theweek.com/article/index/241489/why-the-gop-is-finally-embracing-immigration-reform

[abcx13]

This was kind of expected. This is the area that he is most interested in and Durbin is his partner.

The most important one seems to be this.

Ensures that an H-1B application filed by an employer that employs 50 or more U.S. workers will not be accepted unless the employer attests that less than 50 percent of the employer’s workforce are H-1B and L visa holders.

I have absolutely zero problem with this. It's obvious that currently the main beneficiaries of the H1B program are Indian IT outsourcers - big and small.

[immitime]

Not only is the immigration debate a waste of time, so is border control. It reminds me of the continual talks for peace in the Middle East. There will never be border control nor illegal immigration control in the same way there will never be peace in the Middle East. We will just have more and more non-productive “talks” and “debates. If the bill comes up in Senate Sen. Grassley or some other Senator will fillibuster this for some reason, again if Senate was able to pass with cloture it will stuck in congress with another fillibuster by some Repub representative..

This can be fixed within a week by the present Administration.. what the Captain has to do is just sign an executive order to eliminate the family members from EB immigration quota.. back log will be reduced. Everyone is happy. Illegal immigration they need to deal seperately. Legal immigration people are tax payers without any voting rights!. But this is only a dream and never going to happen. We are always Hostages to some politics or Politricks!

[rupen86]

http://blogs.ajc.com/jay-bookman-blog/2013/03/19/rand-paul-rushes-to-lead-immigration-reform-parade/

[rupen86]

Not only is the immigration debate a waste of time, so is border control. It reminds me of the continual talks for peace in the Middle East. There will never be border control nor illegal immigration control in the same way there will never be peace in the Middle East. We will just have more and more non-productive “talks” and “debates. If the bill comes up in Senate Sen. Grassley or some other Senator will fillibuster this for some reason, again if Senate was able to pass with cloture it will stuck in congress with another fillibuster by some Repub representative..

This can be fixed within a week by the present Administration.. what the Captain has to do is just sign an executive order to eliminate the family members from EB immigration quota.. back log will be reduced. Everyone is happy. Illegal immigration they need to deal seperately. Legal immigration people are tax payers without any voting rights!. But this is only a dream and never going to happen. We are always Hostages to some politics or Politricks!

If we put this in to perspective, we would be hoping for executive order from a person who put an amendment to replace merit based system with family based system.

[gs1968]

The new buzzword/mantra from House Republican Leadership is "education of fellow Republicans"
This from Speaker Boehner today

http://thehill.com/homenews/house/288979-boehner-voices-support-for-emerging-house-immigration-deal

This from House Judiciary Committee Chairman Goodlatte


http://latino.foxnews.com/latino/politics/2013/03/05/immigration-101-house-offers-its-members-classes-on-complex-issue/

This appears to be a tactic to slow down or stall the process.Time will tell

[bvsamrat]

Thanks Q for providing a platform for sharing.

IMHO- No CIR will be successful and will not serve any purpose unless all or most of the following are implemented.Any temperory measures will improve situation for only 1-2 years and similar issues will crop up gain. (e) onwards these may be too much Utopic.

a) Tighten border security before passing laws to favor illegal immigration

b) Tighten H1B visa issuance and check each and every H1B visa regularly if the Visa applicant is working in same skill area/salary as per LCA. In case of any bench issue or salary non payment issue, take action immediately. but increase time duration so that H1B applicant can exit easily.

c) Check and verify PERM and skill category of job offered in GC is relevant to the major qualification of the applicable degree.

d) Any experience/qualification statement used for either H1B or I-140 should be strictly verified and any fraud statements should face civil and criminal action.

e) Categorize skill areas- Manufacturing/Health/services/IT etc. and provide EB quota based on previous statistics,requirement and any other criterion based
on research and long term projection (and not just immediate demand- which can be met by H1B anyway). Remove country quota and replace by skills quota, Research, publish and update lacking skills demand frequently. If a skilled surgeon with MS is eligible for Eb2 and if a consultant(worked in home
company and after transfer to a US company) being eligible for EB1, both cases should be reviewed and analyzed which will be more beneficial to US on long run. Salary cap alone need not be the criterion. Some special skills should be prioritized/promoted and utilized to train the locals in the same area.

f) If tax residence in USA for more than a fixed duration(5 years) should automatically offered GC. it is surprising that USA IRS can tax your world-wide
income but still would not consider you as a permanent resident!.

g)H1B renewal after 3 years should be reviewed with attention and this review should be enough for GC, without any need for separate PERM and I-140.Once again

h) if any specific sector is prone to misuse or found repeated misuse and receiving lot fo complaints, this sector should be given more specific attention and thorough investigation with severe penalties if found of wrong practices
.
i) A legal tax resident in USA, should be able to obtain a re entry visa rather than going to home country and coming back

J) Citizenship should be offered to legal tax residents of more than 8 years, irrespective of GC

K) Remove category of sponsoring brother/sister etc. in FB.



Not only is the immigration debate a waste of time, so is border control. It reminds me of the continual talks for peace in the Middle East. There will never be border control nor illegal immigration control in the same way there will never be peace in the Middle East. We will just have more and more non-productive “talks” and “debates. If the bill comes up in Senate Sen. Grassley or some other Senator will fillibuster this for some reason, again if Senate was able to pass with cloture it will stuck in congress with another fillibuster by some Repub representative..

This can be fixed within a week by the present Administration.. what the Captain has to do is just sign an executive order to eliminate the family members from EB immigration quota.. back log will be reduced. Everyone is happy. Illegal immigration they need to deal seperately. Legal immigration people are tax payers without any voting rights!. But this is only a dream and never going to happen. We are always Hostages to some politics or Politricks!

[gs1968]

Sorry to keep posting in bits & pieces but just saw this on my twitter feed

http://abcnews.go.com/ABC_Univision/Politics/luis-gutierrez-republicans-democrats-agree-path-citizenship/story?id=18764590

[immitime]

All sounds good to the ears..

But they could not pass a bill to lift the country caps...Nothing is being done for taxpaying legal immigrants.





Thanks Q for providing a platform for sharing.

IMHO- No CIR will be successful and will not serve any purpose unless all or most of the following are implemented.Any temperory measures will improve situation for only 1-2 years and similar issues will crop up gain. (e) onwards these may be too much Utopic.

a) Tighten border security before passing laws to favor illegal immigration

b) Tighten H1B visa issuance and check each and every H1B visa regularly if the Visa applicant is working in same skill area/salary as per LCA. In case of any bench issue or salary non payment issue, take action immediately. but increase time duration so that H1B applicant can exit easily.

c) Check and verify PERM and skill category of job offered in GC is relevant to the major qualification of the applicable degree.

d) Any experience/qualification statement used for either H1B or I-140 should be strictly verified and any fraud statements should face civil and criminal action.

e) Categorize skill areas- Manufacturing/Health/services/IT etc. and provide EB quota based on previous statistics,requirement and any other criterion based
on research and long term projection (and not just immediate demand- which can be met by H1B anyway). Remove country quota and replace by skills quota, Research, publish and update lacking skills demand frequently. If a skilled surgeon with MS is eligible for Eb2 and if a consultant(worked in home
company and after transfer to a US company) being eligible for EB1, both cases should be reviewed and analyzed which will be more beneficial to US on long run. Salary cap alone need not be the criterion. Some special skills should be prioritized/promoted and utilized to train the locals in the same area.

f) If tax residence in USA for more than a fixed duration(5 years) should automatically offered GC. it is surprising that USA IRS can tax your world-wide
income but still would not consider you as a permanent resident!.

g)H1B renewal after 3 years should be reviewed with attention and this review should be enough for GC, without any need for separate PERM and I-140.Once again

h) if any specific sector is prone to misuse or found repeated misuse and receiving lot fo complaints, this sector should be given more specific attention and thorough investigation with severe penalties if found of wrong practices
.
i) A legal tax resident in USA, should be able to obtain a re entry visa rather than going to home country and coming back

J) Citizenship should be offered to legal tax residents of more than 8 years, irrespective of GC


K) Remove category of sponsoring brother/sister etc. in FB.

[rupen86]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/post-politics/wp/2013/03/19/immigration-reform-speeding-up-not-so-fast/

[immitime]

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/18/us/politics/senate-groups-immigration-plan-would-alter-waiting-periods.html?pagewanted=all&_r=1&

The proof is here.

Even if the Senate passes an immigration overhaul later this spring or summer, it still faces an uphill battle in the Republican-controlled House. A group of House Republicans told Speaker John A. Boehner last week that they were close to releasing a set of principles to guide their own legislation.

House Republicans would prefer to tackle an immigration overhaul in several smaller bills rather than one big bill. And many House Republicans want to offer illegal immigrants a legal status that stops short of a pathway to citizenship.

[gcq]

http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2013/03/18/immigration-hearing-pits-family-against-economy/

Jeff Sessions of Alabama acting up as if he likes skilled immigration. He is the one who blocked HR 3012 in senate. ( He and Grassley are R* disguised as anti-immigrants)

[isantem]

http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2013/03/18/immigration-hearing-pits-family-against-economy/

Jeff Sessions of Alabama acting up as if he likes skilled immigration. He is the one who blocked HR 3012 in senate. ( He and Grassley are R* disguised as anti-immigrants)

Just because somebody blocked 3012 is not necessary anti immigrant. Maybe you can call him racist because he does not want 70% of high skilled immigrants to be from India.

[bvsamrat]

I also agree that country cap is something agaist equal opportunity and it should have been passed!

But on CIR - MHO - Law makers do not get convinced to so called problems facing by Legal immigrants and these can be easily or even partly solved by doubling Visa numbers this year.

They always face this dilema - What if they double the number this year and by next year demand gets doubled?

This was the precise reason for putting H1B cap and hence lottery. Even this year the Cap is expected to reach within a week!

Actual facts show that despite all backlogs, the H1B and GC demand is ever increasing.

Only way - one will understand if there is any reduction in quality/skills making any deference in economic develpment due this back logs faced? and if the creamy layer looking elsewhere? I am sure some one is working on this and this would sail us through.

Or else why they should consider any change if they are getting numbers and demand is ever increasing?

Hence CIR should consider all these.Otherwise just increasing quota would not help - IMHO


All sounds good to the ears..

But they could not pass a bill to lift the country caps...Nothing is being done for taxpaying legal immigrants.

[rupen86]

From Oh Law Firm, good summary report of the progress so far.
http://thehill.com/homenews/house/289169-emerging-immigration-deal-receives-house-leaders-bipartisan-backing

[gs1968]

To rupen86

Following up on your post from yesterday about the letter from the GOP Judiciary Committee Senators-this from the Salt Lake City Tribune today

http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/politics/56034887-90/immigration-debate-hatch-lee.html.csp

It is very interesting to note that the only 2 GOP committee members who did not sign the letter are part of the "gang of eight". It is very important for the Bill to come out of the Senate Judiciary Committee with a strong bipartisan backing to clear the whole Senate as we cannot take 55 Democratic votes for guaranteed. We all remember how close the last Bill came in 2007 before falling a few votes short.

[idiotic]

To rupen86

Following up on your post from yesterday about the letter from the GOP Judiciary Committee Senators-this from the Salt Lake City Tribune today

http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/politics/56034887-90/immigration-debate-hatch-lee.html.csp

It is very interesting to note that the only 2 GOP committee members who did not sign the letter are part of the "gang of eight". It is very important for the Bill to come out of the Senate Judiciary Committee with a strong bipartisan backing to clear the whole Senate as we cannot take 55 Democratic votes for guaranteed. We all remember how close the last Bill came in 2007 before falling a few votes short.

Pretty sure they will propose a amendment to just strike out the entire bill retaining only the bill number & title and replace it with H1B reform :)

[rupen86]

To rupen86

Following up on your post from yesterday about the letter from the GOP Judiciary Committee Senators-this from the Salt Lake City Tribune today

http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/politics/56034887-90/immigration-debate-hatch-lee.html.csp

It is very interesting to note that the only 2 GOP committee members who did not sign the letter are part of the "gang of eight". It is very important for the Bill to come out of the Senate Judiciary Committee with a strong bipartisan backing to clear the whole Senate as we cannot take 55 Democratic votes for guaranteed. We all remember how close the last Bill came in 2007 before falling a few votes short.

Interesting to note that Hatch is the sponsor of the I-Square act.

[abcx13]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/post-politics/wp/2013/03/20/key-senate-chairman-worries-immigration-overhaul-pace-too-slow/

[rupen86]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/post-politics/wp/2013/03/20/key-senate-chairman-worries-immigration-overhaul-pace-too-slow/

"Leahy’s comments come a day after six Republicans submitted a letter complaining that the immigration overhaul process is moving too quickly and asking Leahy to hold additional hearings into the matter."

If those who sent letter votes against the bill, can the committee still pass it ?

[idiotic]

"Leahy’s comments come a day after six Republicans submitted a letter complaining that the immigration overhaul process is moving too quickly and asking Leahy to hold additional hearings into the matter."

If those who sent letter votes against the bill, can the committee still pass it ?

Good snub to the six senators by Leahy. Kudos to him.

[gs1968]

To rupen86
There needs to be only a simple majority to report Bills out of committee to the Senate Floor. As the Democrats control the Judiciary Committee 10-8,the Bill cannot be defeated in Committee by the above 6 members.However it would help to have a near unanimous vote which would add legitimacy and make floor passage by the Senate and subsequently by the House easier.Of course if the Democrats were to rush the process there are other manouvers still available for the Republicans (hold/filibuster etc)

[gcq]

As for the hold/filibuster threat, there is a significant difference with CIR.
A cloture could not be invoked on HR 3012, since it was a minor bill and it did not make sense to go through cloture process.
When it comes to CIR, Harry Reid can invoke cloture as it is a major bill.

[gcq]

Just because somebody blocked 3012 is not necessary anti immigrant. Maybe you can call him racist because he does not want 70% of high skilled immigrants to be from India.
That is the exact reason I call him an anti-immigrant. In high skilled immigration country of birth doesn't matter. Moreover I have been watching these Senator's for years now. I know what they are.

[gs1968]

To gcq & rupen

You may be right about Sen Reid

http://dailycaller.com/2013/03/20/harry-reid-confirms-intention-to-rush-immigration-legislation/

Whether this is really possible or if he is just calling their bluff-time will tell

[SaibabaAug2010]

To gcq & rupen

You may be right about Sen Reid

http://dailycaller.com/2013/03/20/harry-reid-confirms-intention-to-rush-immigration-legislation/

Whether this is really possible or if he is just calling their bluff-time will tell




Hi Gs, I always enjoy reading your’s & Rupen posts as I feel you both make constructive comments. After 3012 failed, I preferred to read rather than posting here and the other site. Well, sometimes, I couldn't resist myself to comment. I lost much of my hopes on passing any Immigration bill in this statuesque congress after 3012 duped. But the recent shift of policies of few key HARD CORE conservatives (Rand Paul /Eric Canter /Goodlatte), I am little exited to see the debates in coming months.

Harry Reid is my neighborhood state senator. My memories are still fresh on how he won last re-election (2010). He made lot of promises to Hispanics on Immigration to get re-elected. One of the major promise was Dream Act.. I think he will have lot of pressure from his own state of Hispanics to bring the bill to senate floor soon once the Gang 8 puts forward.

Boehner on House seemed to act on Immigration. I think he won’t bring any bill (house / senate version) to floor in next 2 months as there is more resistance in his own party.) Also, Goodlatte is looking to have more hearings on this. It will be interesting to see how this is going to be unfolded.

Republicans realized that without Immi Reform they can’t get into WH. That’s a good sign with the recent election. Though, I don’t like giving a Citizenship to illi… With the change in dynamics, I see legal immigration can only sail through by going with that group. Hope we will succeed this time.


Of course, these are all Politicians what they talk in front of camera is always / (at least 90% of the time) different from their actions. Hope I’ll be wrong this time.

[gs1968]

Hi SaiBabaAug2010
Thanks for your comments although in this forum everybody makes clean,refreshing comments that make intelligent reading.
Regarding your comments about the GOP regaining the White House-here is an interesting take

http://www.businessinsider.com/impact-of-a-path-to-citizenship-on-2020-election-2013-3

[gcq]

What happens in house is pretty much dependent on speaker Boehner. If he allows the legislation to come to floor, it will definitely pass with combined votes of Democrats and GOP. From house judiciary committee perspective I am hopeful for CIR passage. Traditionally Bob Goodlatte and Lamar Smith are against illegal immigration. After watching the testimony of Dr Wadhwa and Dr Aurora, I feel they are OK with illegal immigration component of CIR. This can happen only if there is a broader agreement in GOP to pass CIR.

Unlike anti-immigrants like Steve King, Grassley and Sessions, these lawmakers give consideration to what GOP wants to do.

[SaibabaAug2010]

Hi SaiBabaAug2010
Thanks for your comments although in this forum everybody makes clean,refreshing comments that make intelligent reading.
Regarding your comments about the GOP regaining the White House-here is an interesting take

http://www.businessinsider.com/impact-of-a-path-to-citizenship-on-2020-election-2013-3

Gs, You’re right, this forum is clean and also users respect each other’s view and make healthy comments. I should say kudos to Q.

Thank you for the link. I am not convinced much with the Author analysis. Although, I have to agree to the fact that demographics are quickly changing in swing states. By 2020, I do not see none of the illegal’s getting voting rights with any of the proposals available as of now. Per WH plan, they would be eligible for GC after 8 years, assuming majority of them are going to fall in low skill EB category and even after Country cap removal, I do not see them getting GC itself by 2025.

As author mentioned in the article, GOP is taking a big gamble on this. In my view, by going with CIR they will at least benefit in near term elections.

Gcq, I’m fully on board with your last but one statement.

You’ve summarized what you put in with this statement.;)




This can happen only if there is a broader agreement in GOP to pass CIR.

[abcx13]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/visas-for-high-skilled-workers-could-double-under-bipartisan-senate-plan/2013/03/20/8b74c08a-9194-11e2-bdea-e32ad90da239_story.html

Nice to see India singled out for abusing H1B again.

[qesehmk]

I don't see any such reference in the article. Please post responsibly for everybody's benefit.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/visas-for-high-skilled-workers-could-double-under-bipartisan-senate-plan/2013/03/20/8b74c08a-9194-11e2-bdea-e32ad90da239_story.html

Nice to see India singled out for abusing H1B again.

[rupen86]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/visas-for-high-skilled-workers-could-double-under-bipartisan-senate-plan/2013/03/20/8b74c08a-9194-11e2-bdea-e32ad90da239_story.html

Nice to see India singled out for abusing H1B again.

It talks about doubling h1b visas and giving green cards to university students but it does not talk about other components of EB immigration. I hope, they will be there in the final bill. Without that, existing backlog of current EB system for those without US degree would worsen.

[gs1968]

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-03-21/guest-worker-visas-sticking-point-on-immigration-rewrite.html

The middle of the article suggests several sticking points but then goes on to say " we are very,very close to a deal"
Not quite sure what to make of all this speculation

[immitime]

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-03-21/guest-worker-visas-sticking-point-on-immigration-rewrite.html

The middle of the article suggests several sticking points but then goes on to say " we are very,very close to a deal"
Not quite sure what to make of all this speculation

gs1968,

All showing carrots.. stick will come after Grassuncle does filibuster.. and then when it goes to congress. All drama...all these politicians already discussed together what to do.. If there is an executive order then that is a different issue altogether.. But for people like us Legal immigrants Nobody cares!... so all these immigration talks happening.. waste of time.. Nothing comprehensive is going to happen with the present US Fillibuster law!

[abcx13]

I don't see any such reference in the article. Please post responsibly for everybody's benefit.On page 2:


These critics say companies commonly use the visa to bring employees from India to work in the United States for up to three years, train them and then return them to India to do the same work, often for a U.S. firm buying the services from a contractor.

[gs1968]

To immitime
Please stay positive till we have reason to feel otherwise although news articles full of contradictions like below do not help

http://www.politico.com/story/2013/03/chuck-schumer-gang-of-8-immigration-reform-deal-89200.html?hp=t2_3

Schumer says late spring or early summer while Raul Labrador says probably the end of the year. Schumer says we are 90% there while Rubio says there are still outstanding items which need answers.

[rupen86]

To immitime
Please stay positive till we have reason to feel otherwise although news articles full of contradictions like below do not help

http://www.politico.com/story/2013/03/chuck-schumer-gang-of-8-immigration-reform-deal-89200.html?hp=t2_3

Schumer says late spring or early summer while Raul Labrador says probably the end of the year. Schumer says we are 90% there while Rubio says there are still outstanding items which need answers.

Another article that tells that bill is on the horizon.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/03/21/senate-gang-of-eight-immigration_n_2927798.html

[gs1968]

To rupen86

Both of us are spending too much of our precious time following these vague leads and should find a better pastime till June/July when the process is more visible. Everybody is quoting some aide speaking on "condition of anonymity" and twisting facts to meet their own agenda.

The following article is yet another example of the contradictions I mentioned in my previous post.Yesterday a link I posted seems to suggest some fast-tracking of the Bill but this one seems to mention "regular order" implying prolonged judiciary deliberations/hearings etc


http://washingtonexaminer.com/key-senate-dem-forget-about-immigration-reform-anytime-soon/article/2524934

I am surprised that everybody is talking about the legalization of 11 million people as the easier part of the deal.This is a giant experiment in social engineering and will add new citizens to the USA to the magnitude of the State of Pennsylvania.The last paragraph in the article you quoted correctly mentions that opposition is just starting to form.

The other aspect I find surprisingly taken for granted is an almost complete Democratic embrace of the legislative proposals.A previous article in this thread earlier today mentioned Sens. Hirono & Warren objecting to FB elimination
It is going to take a lot of heavy lifting to get this through the Senate.The House is a totally different story

[qesehmk]

That would be a critique of the program itself as it is designed as opposed to the program being abused IMHO.
On page 2:

[gcq]

That would be a critique of the program itself as it is designed as opposed to the program being abused IMHO.
Well stated !

[rupen86]

To rupen86

Both of us are spending too much of our precious time following these vague leads and should find a better pastime till June/July when the process is more visible. Everybody is quoting some aide speaking on "condition of anonymity" and twisting facts to meet their own agenda.

The following article is yet another example of the contradictions I mentioned in my previous post.Yesterday a link I posted seems to suggest some fast-tracking of the Bill but this one seems to mention "regular order" implying prolonged judiciary deliberations/hearings etc


http://washingtonexaminer.com/key-senate-dem-forget-about-immigration-reform-anytime-soon/article/2524934

I am surprised that everybody is talking about the legalization of 11 million people as the easier part of the deal.This is a giant experiment in social engineering and will add new citizens to the USA to the magnitude of the State of Pennsylvania.The last paragraph in the article you quoted correctly mentions that opposition is just starting to form.

The other aspect I find surprisingly taken for granted is an almost complete Democratic embrace of the legislative proposals.A previous article in this thread earlier today mentioned Sens. Hirono & Warren objecting to FB elimination
It is going to take a lot of heavy lifting to get this through the Senate.The House is a totally different story

I believe the reason that there is more support for legalization of 11m illegals is that everyone is trying to win latino votes. Democrats won't accept anything less than citizenship. That's how they will have access to future voters. Republicans may believe that they would also have access to that pool and existing pool if they support that but on the other hand, for EB immigration, the pool is not larger enough for political advantage. They would be doing that for economic reason and their obligation to businesses. Seems like, AFL and Chamber of Commerce have stopped talking and directly talking with senators. It needs to be seen who gets how much. But this approach does not look good for the bill. Either the union or business may not support the bill if they do not get what they want.

http://www.politico.com/story/2013/03/gop-unions-to-blame-if-immigration-fails-89198.html

[abcx13]

That would be a critique of the program itself as it is designed as opposed to the program being abused IMHO.

Oh come on. :rolleyes: How come it only mentions Indians? If it's a loophole in the program why isn't everyone abusing it? Why is that Indian IT outsourcers take a disproportionate share of the visas?

(Rhetorical question. No need to answer.)

[rupen86]

To rupen86

Both of us are spending too much of our precious time following these vague leads and should find a better pastime till June/July when the process is more visible. Everybody is quoting some aide speaking on "condition of anonymity" and twisting facts to meet their own agenda.

The following article is yet another example of the contradictions I mentioned in my previous post.Yesterday a link I posted seems to suggest some fast-tracking of the Bill but this one seems to mention "regular order" implying prolonged judiciary deliberations/hearings etc


http://washingtonexaminer.com/key-senate-dem-forget-about-immigration-reform-anytime-soon/article/2524934

I am surprised that everybody is talking about the legalization of 11 million people as the easier part of the deal.This is a giant experiment in social engineering and will add new citizens to the USA to the magnitude of the State of Pennsylvania.The last paragraph in the article you quoted correctly mentions that opposition is just starting to form.

The other aspect I find surprisingly taken for granted is an almost complete Democratic embrace of the legislative proposals.A previous article in this thread earlier today mentioned Sens. Hirono & Warren objecting to FB elimination
It is going to take a lot of heavy lifting to get this through the Senate.The House is a totally different story

For the order of the news, this came first and Reid one. Reid can decide that he does not want to wait for the committee and instead go to the floor directly.

[immitime]

To immitime
Please stay positive till we have reason to feel otherwise although news articles full of contradictions like below do not help

http://www.politico.com/story/2013/03/chuck-schumer-gang-of-8-immigration-reform-deal-89200.html?hp=t2_3

Schumer says late spring or early summer while Raul Labrador says probably the end of the year. Schumer says we are 90% there while Rubio says there are still outstanding items which need answers.

daffodil daffodil..why can't you sing
birds are singing with their little tiny beaks
daffodil daffodil why can't you sing
spring sprung, summer is almost near
before that please at least doodle woodle daffodil
instead of poodling Illegals give a stone to Legals!

[gs1968]

To Immitime
Wow! we like that better-Shayari Aagayi!!!

To rupen86
Direct floor action is risky as it may not clear cloture. We focus too much on the 60 vote threshold but as I have mentioned before,cloture votes are a sign of caucus unity. It is one thing to vote against a Bill that has withstood intense committee scrutiny and duly reported but if it is felt that floor action is rushed without allowing for due diligence/deliberation in committee then such cloture votes usually fail

[qesehmk]

Actually abcx that particular sentence almost begs the question - why do we let those people go back to India and not give them green cards so that they can stay back here. I think whoever said it is indirectly suggesting that rather than saying that there is any abuse (which I don't deny always exist). But in this particular case the focus is diffferent. My 2 cents.
Oh come on. :rolleyes: How come it only mentions Indians? If it's a loophole in the program why isn't everyone abusing it? Why is that Indian IT outsourcers take a disproportionate share of the visas?

(Rhetorical question. No need to answer.)


daffodil daffodil..why can't you sing
birds are singing with their little tiny beaks
daffodil daffodil why can't you sing
spring sprung, summer is almost near
before that please at least doodle woodle daffodil
instead of poodling Illegals give a stone to Legals!
immitime - LoL!! loved it.

[immitime]

immitime - LoL!! loved it.

Q, Thanks for appreciation. thought will make the moment little lighter! :-)

[immitime]

To Immitime
Wow! we like that better-Shayari Aagayi!!!



gs,

Thanks for appreciation.. it is like...
Main shayar toh nahin
Main shayar toh nahin
Magar CIR hasee
Jab se dekha maine tujhko
Mujhko shayari aa gayi !!! :-)

[rupen86]

Different take on republicans' ranting on unions.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/plum-line/wp/2013/03/22/a-bait-and-switch-on-immigration-reform/

[gcq]

Oh come on. :rolleyes: How come it only mentions Indians? If it's a loophole in the program why isn't everyone abusing it? Why is that Indian IT outsourcers take a disproportionate share of the visas?

(Rhetorical question. No need to answer.)

Give me an immigration category that doesn't have fraud and abuse ? As long as the applicants are humans, these kind of things will always happen. That is why government agencies including USCIS has enforcement wing. The only thing I don't understand is why some members of this forum are so happy going against India and Indians ? Despite what immigration legislation is being passed, outsourcing will never stop. Outsourcer's don't need visa. Outsourcing is trade issue not an immigration issue. Anti-immigrants and anti-immigrant lawmakers use outsourcing and joblessness to promote their anti-immigrant agenda. Ill informed among us think they are fighting for american's justice.

If outsourcing is the issue they are fighting, why didn't they ban outsourcing explicitly ?

One the same note, give me a country whose people don't commit fraud, lie etc. This country which you may be thinking is perfect has fraud, lies and abuse from the lower end to president's office ( Bill Clinton on sex-scandal, George Bush on Iraq war).

Be proud to be an Indian ! ( No country is perfect in the world, neither is India )

[gs1968]

http://www.politico.com/story/2013/03/immigration-deal-senate-close-89221_Page2.html

[Jonty Rhodes]

Frankly speaking, no one expects and should not even expect the CIR to be a smooth ride. We all know that it was going to be bumpy right from the word go. Having said that, the bill may still pass or fail, but for some unknown reason I am overtly optimistic about CIR this time. Hope, it comes to be true. Have a good weekend everyone.

[rupen86]

http://www.politico.com/story/2013/03/immigration-deal-senate-close-89221_Page2.html

This article also points to the similar events. Seems like, right now it is stuck between labor and business and that they are going to sort this out during the recess.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/03/23/us-usa-immigration-congress-idUSBRE92M00R20130323

[rupen86]

This article also points to the similar events. Seems like, right now it is stuck between labor and business and that they are going to sort this out during the recess.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/03/23/us-usa-immigration-congress-idUSBRE92M00R20130323

This one points to more exact details on where the negotiations have stalled.
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/03/23/senate-gang-8-close-finalizing-immigration-reform-deal/

[rupen86]

More detailed version of how H1b and STEM green card may play out. No detail on other components of EB green cards.
http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9237808/Plan_to_hike_H_1B_cap_to_300_000_seen_dead_130_000 _cap_still_possible

[gs1968]

Sen.Sessions is active again

http://www.rollcall.com/news/immigration_vote_splits_gang_of_8-223395-1.html?pos=hln

It is amusing to have these Senators referred to as "gang members"!!

[rupen86]

Sen.Sessions is active again

http://www.rollcall.com/news/immigration_vote_splits_gang_of_8-223395-1.html?pos=hln

It is amusing to have these Senators referred to as "gang members"!!

Sessions is logically correct in saying that vote does not reflect good on immigration negotiations. This is an important topic which should be part of the immigration bill.

[rupen86]

Sessions is logically correct in saying that vote does not reflect good on immigration negotiations. This is an important topic which should be part of the immigration bill.

http://blogs.kqed.org/stateofhealth/2013/03/24/immigration-reform-maybe-but-long-wait-for-health-access-by-the-undocumented/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=immigration-reform-maybe-but-long-wait-for-health-access-by-the-undocumented

[rupen86]

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887324077704578362512667311612.html?m od=wsj_share_tweet

[gs1968]

http://www.latimes.com/news/politics/la-pn-obama-stalled-immigration-talks-20130325,0,7503326.story

It is good to see the President involved but how he can influence/hasten the process is unclear as the following section of the article suggests-

"Obama’s time frame may be tough for senators to reach. U.S. Sen. Patrick J. Leahy (D-Vt.), chairman of the judiciary committee, already has cast doubt on the chances of getting a bill through his committee by the end of April. Even if the bill comes to the floor next month a vote would not necessarily follow quickly. Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-Nev.) has said he plans to let senators debate the legislation at length, and there remains no clear path for the bill through the Republican-led House.

[rupen86]

http://www.latimes.com/news/politics/la-pn-obama-stalled-immigration-talks-20130325,0,7503326.story

It is good to see the President involved but how he can influence/hasten the process is unclear as the following section of the article suggests-

"Obama’s time frame may be tough for senators to reach. U.S. Sen. Patrick J. Leahy (D-Vt.), chairman of the judiciary committee, already has cast doubt on the chances of getting a bill through his committee by the end of April. Even if the bill comes to the floor next month a vote would not necessarily follow quickly. Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-Nev.) has said he plans to let senators debate the legislation at length, and there remains no clear path for the bill through the Republican-led House.

He has good relation with labor. Now is the good time to offer help and move negotiations forward.

[rupen86]

http://www.politico.com/story/2013/03/hed-facebook-founder-mark-zuckerberg-eyes-dc-push-89245.html?hp=l12

[pakkpk]

http://blogs.ilw.com/gregsiskind/2013/03/is-the-afl-cio-trying-to-kill-immigration-reform.html

AFL-CIO in action...

[rupen86]

http://blogs.ilw.com/gregsiskind/2013/03/is-the-afl-cio-trying-to-kill-immigration-reform.html

AFL-CIO in action...

It seems all the more important now that Obama come to help in this issue and help democrats take the direction whether they should abide by what union wants.

[rupen86]

http://www.myfoxphoenix.com/story/21786888/mccain-holds-town-hall-on-immigration-reform

[abcx13]

http://www.myfoxphoenix.com/story/21786888/mccain-holds-town-hall-on-immigration-reform


If you see the video, I think he's just managing expectations of the Hispanic/Latino community who are likely expecting a speedier path to citizenship. It's up to the President now to resolve the AFL-CIO issue I think. Considering he's made CIR such a big part of his second term, I don't think he can just back off at this point and blame it on big business or the unions.

[rupen86]

http://abcnews.go.com/ABC_Univision/Politics/napolitano-border-security-trigger-hold-immigration-reform/story?id=18814630#.UVHTtjeWS-U

[pakkpk]

Here's Wall Street Journal editorial page editor Paul Gigot's explanation of what's going on behind the scenes in the Senate Gang of Eight negotiations on how to structure a new worker visa program for less-skilled immigrants.

http://live.wsj.com/video/opinion-big-labor-v-immigrants-/AB3ADF34-623F-403C-AA5B-5C5259E4C356.html#!AB3ADF34-623F-403C-AA5B-5C5259E4C356

[rupen86]

http://www.nationaljournal.com/congress/why-immigration-reform-is-so-hard-20130326

[abcx13]

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-03-26/will-cheap-labor-kill-immigration-reform-.html

[rupen86]

Nice summary on what to expect on high skill immigration
http://www.metrocorpcounsel.com/articles/22953/high-skilled-immigration-reform-what-does-future-hold

[rupen86]

http://www.redstate.com/2013/03/26/immigration-reform-are-obama-afl-cio-bosses-using-poison-pills-to-kill-latinos-dreams-again/

[abcx13]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/03/27/john-yarmuth-immigration_n_2963491.html#slide=more277241
http://tv.msnbc.com/2013/03/27/house-group-very-close-to-putting-forward-immigration-package/
http://abcnews.go.com/ABC_Univision/Politics/reasons-immigration-reform-timeline-matters/story?id=18822563

[abcx13]

Some hope here:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/huff-wires/20130327/us-obama-immigration/?utm_hp_ref=homepage&ir=homepage

But they're at odds over key issues. The Senate group wants the citizenship pathway to be contingent on securing the border, something Obama opposes. The president has also sidestepped the contentious guest-worker issue, which contributed to derailing immigration talks in 2007.

The U.S. Chamber of Commerce and the AFL-CIO have reached significant agreements on a new visa program that would bring up to 200,000 lower-skilled workers to the country each year. But they reached a stalemate Friday over wages for the workers, with the labor union pushing for higher wages than the chamber has agreed to so far.

Since then, talks have resumed and negotiators are "back on the right track," Ana Avendano, a lead AFL-CIO negotiator, said Wednesday.

Avendano declined to offer specifics but said the chamber had moved off what she termed its insistence on "poverty-level wages" for the new workers.

"We're very hopeful that we're moving," Avendano told reporters after a briefing for congressional staff on temporary-worker programs.

[gs1968]

http://www.rollcall.com/news/leahy_warns_sessions_to_play_nice_on_immigration-223458-1.html?zkPrintable=true

http://washingtonexaminer.com/top-democrat-tells-republicans-hell-rush-immigration-bill-through-congress/article/2525558

[abcx13]

http://www.ajc.com/news/news/national/obama-immigration-bill-could-pass-by-summer/nW52Q/

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/03/27/us-usa-immigration-senate-idUSBRE92Q17Z20130327

A couple more weeks, folks, and all will be revealed! Hope springs eternal.

BTW, I don't get thread reply notifications anymore unfortunately. Not sure why. I've tried unsubscribing and resubscribing but it doesn't work. They stopped working after Q banned me for a week...

[rupen86]

http://www.ajc.com/news/news/national/obama-immigration-bill-could-pass-by-summer/nW52Q/

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/03/27/us-usa-immigration-senate-idUSBRE92Q17Z20130327

A couple more weeks, folks, and all will be revealed! Hope springs eternal.

BTW, I don't get thread reply notifications anymore unfortunately. Not sure why. I've tried unsubscribing and resubscribing but it doesn't work. They stopped working after Q banned me for a week...

""We hope to have a bill agreed to and done .. the day we come back," he said."
By this, it looks like bill will be introduced on 8th April. Other links suggest that Leahy will fast track the committee process and bill will be out of the committee in 1-2 weeks. If all of this comes true, bill will be on the senate floor in next month.

[CleanSock]

Hahaha..what an apt response by Leahy to Sessions! Worth taking a look!



http://www.rollcall.com/news/leahy_warns_sessions_to_play_nice_on_immigration-223458-1.html?zkPrintable=true

http://washingtonexaminer.com/top-democrat-tells-republicans-hell-rush-immigration-bill-through-congress/article/2525558

[gs1968]

To rupen86/Cleansock
A lot of the letter is trash talk and pure bluster.Senators have egos larger than Mt.Everest and do not like to be told what to do.Much as I would love the time-frame you have mentioned, the actual reporting will take a lot longer. Not all of the GOP or the Democratic Senators are sold on the idea of legalizing 11-12 million people. Cloture is hard to achieve if the Senate perception is that the Bill was rushed without due process. Unlike the Healthcare Law, the Democrats still need GOP support to reach the 60 vote threshold. Please see the following links

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/03/21/1195619/-Immigration-update-Hirono-leads-fight-for-family-unity#

Their votes are crucial for passage of the Bill and although in the end they may vote for it-time and attention will need to be given to address their concerns.

http://dailycaller.com/2013/03/27/sessions-slams-leahy-for-immigration-rush/

Sen. Rubio has also mentioned that he will ensure due process is given to the Bill. This is a momentous peace of legislation and I hope everybody's concerns are addressed before any Senate Floor vote. A defeat on the cloture motion would weaken the Democrats' hand significantly

[qesehmk]

abcx - I can't thank you enough for raising this.... I myself am wondering why I was not getting any notifications whatsoever!! Now I know.... something is wrong here ... nobody is probably getting them.... let me investigate and see what I can do about.

p.s. - Alright I think I fixed it. 2 months back when Spec and I were dealing with some serious spam we stopped all emailing. Little did I know that this would stop ALL emails including subscription emails. So I have now started those emails. Hope this solves the problem. From your side please do following:
1. Subscribe to threads of your interest.
2. Check your spam folder - just in case subscription email goes to spam folder.
3. Let me know if you are still not receiving emails.

Thanks again!

..
BTW, I don't get thread reply notifications anymore unfortunately. Not sure why. I've tried unsubscribing and resubscribing but it doesn't work. They stopped working after Q banned me for a week...

[qesehmk]

abcx - on another note - I hope your are not mad at me for that ban. I can count on fingers of one hand how many times I have banned people for things other than SPAM. I think everybody appreciates what you contribute here. So my apologies for any hurt feelings.
... They stopped working after Q banned me for a week...

[rupen86]

To rupen86/Cleansock
A lot of the letter is trash talk and pure bluster.Senators have egos larger than Mt.Everest and do not like to be told what to do.Much as I would love the time-frame you have mentioned, the actual reporting will take a lot longer. Not all of the GOP or the Democratic Senators are sold on the idea of legalizing 11-12 million people. Cloture is hard to achieve if the Senate perception is that the Bill was rushed without due process. Unlike the Healthcare Law, the Democrats still need GOP support to reach the 60 vote threshold. Please see the following links

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/03/21/1195619/-Immigration-update-Hirono-leads-fight-for-family-unity#

Their votes are crucial for passage of the Bill and although in the end they may vote for it-time and attention will need to be given to address their concerns.

http://dailycaller.com/2013/03/27/sessions-slams-leahy-for-immigration-rush/

Sen. Rubio has also mentioned that he will ensure due process is given to the Bill. This is a momentous peace of legislation and I hope everybody's concerns are addressed before any Senate Floor vote. A defeat on the cloture motion would weaken the Democrats' hand significantly

If cloture is failed, meaning there are not 60 votes, we can not expect it to pass the house. My feeling is that there are more than 60 votes and as high as 80 as Schumer had said earlier. We can not expect this to pass with simple vote as it only requires one senator to put hold and you can not satisfy everybody.

[abcx13]

abcx - on another note - I hope your are not mad at me for that ban. I can count on fingers of one hand how many times I have banned people for things other than SPAM. I think everybody appreciates what you contribute here. So my apologies for any hurt feelings.

No worries - no hard feelings! I get carried away sometimes and certainly do have strongly held opinions! Though I don't remember what I said the second time. I do remember mangling Grassley's first name to something not very nice.

[abcx13]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/right-turn/wp/2013/03/28/gop-primary-voters-open-to-immigration-reform-with-conditions/

[abcx13]

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-03-28/wage-rates-for-laborers-complicating-immigration-rewrite.html
http://www.politico.com/story/2013/03/eric-cantor-immigration-89423.html

[gs1968]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/03/27/john-yarmuth-immigration_n_2963491.html

It is interesting to note that the House leadership has said that they would like to work on legislation of their own and reconcile with a Senate version in conference. Yet the focus or urgency seems to be lacking unlike in the Senate. I know that they keep saying they are close but it is believed that the same group has been working for 4 years on this legislation but still needs more weeks to actually producing a package

[abcx13]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/03/27/john-yarmuth-immigration_n_2963491.html
I posted that upthread I think.

PS - I get notifications now! Yay!

[gs1968]

To abcx13
I get notifications now too although I had forgotten that they existed to begin with. Sorry for the duplicate posting and please continue your good work

[rupen86]

To abcx13
I get notifications now too although I had forgotten that they existed to begin with. Sorry for the duplicate posting and please continue your good work

I also started receiving notifications now..I was not getting that earlier.

[rupen86]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/03/27/john-yarmuth-immigration_n_2963491.html

It is interesting to note that the House leadership has said that they would like to work on legislation of their own and reconcile with a Senate version in conference. Yet the focus or urgency seems to be lacking unlike in the Senate. I know that they keep saying they are close but it is believed that the same group has been working for 4 years on this legislation but still needs more weeks to actually producing a package

When they say they are close, I am not sure if they are referring to the bill or a broad plan.

[abcx13]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/dispute-over-guest-worker-program-puts-immigration-talks-at-risk/2013/03/28/d68bee2c-96ee-11e2-814b-063623d80a60_story.html

Published today but I'm not sure whether there is new info or this is just a delayed recap of everything that has happened since last week.

[kd2008]

A small piece of advise based on what I saw happen in 2007: If you think your House Rep or Senator needs coaxing on immigration then now is the time to act. Call them now, meet their handlers, and field representatives in their office now. Once the bill becomes public, it is too late. Everybody by then will have firm positions on various parts of the bill and they will do horse trading. If you give me what I want I will vote for what you want etc. They will not listen to constituents. It is too late then to persuade them.

Insist on telling YOUR story. Not matter what the overall bill does, it MUST address YOUR concern even if they do not like the bill.

[immitime]

When they say they are close, I am not sure if they are referring to the bill or a broad plan.

On a funny note.

When they say they are close means.
They are almost reaching the target which they are supposed to have as lobbying money!! (it is legal, but it is Bribe indeed).


Legal immigrants are punished without any mercy.. just for their selfish vote needs. We are held as hostages to give Illegals a path to
citizenship.

This is one of the proposal as per below White house site.

•Cut Red Tape for Employers. The proposal also eliminates the backlog for employment-sponsored immigration by eliminating annual country caps and adding additional visas to the system. Outdated legal immigration programs are reformed to meet current and future demands by exempting certain categories from annual visa limitations.
http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2013/01/29/fact-sheet-fixing-our-broken-immigration-system-so-everyone-plays-rules

If the CIR fails if The White house have the political will to make the above link as executive order.. Then something will happen. Otherwise no need to wait for this big immigration drama again.

[rupen86]

On a funny note.

When they say they are close means.
They are almost reaching the target which they are supposed to have as lobbying money!! (it is legal, but it is Bribe indeed).


Legal immigrants are punished without any mercy.. just for their selfish vote needs. We are held as hostages to give Illegals a path to
citizenship.

This is one of the proposal as per below White house site.

•Cut Red Tape for Employers. The proposal also eliminates the backlog for employment-sponsored immigration by eliminating annual country caps and adding additional visas to the system. Outdated legal immigration programs are reformed to meet current and future demands by exempting certain categories from annual visa limitations.
http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2013/01/29/fact-sheet-fixing-our-broken-immigration-system-so-everyone-plays-rules

If the CIR fails if The White house have the political will to make the above link as executive order.. Then something will happen. Otherwise no need to wait for this big immigration drama again.


I think passing CIR has more chances than white house issuing executive order on legal immigration.

[rupen86]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/dispute-over-guest-worker-program-puts-immigration-talks-at-risk/2013/03/28/d68bee2c-96ee-11e2-814b-063623d80a60_story.html

Published today but I'm not sure whether there is new info or this is just a delayed recap of everything that has happened since last week.

it does not look delayed recap. It references Wednesday night (Yesterday night).

[rupen86]

Latest on Labor-Business standoff.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/03/28/us-usa-immigration-wages-idUSBRE92R11820130328

[kuku82]

More on labor-business......

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/30/us/politics/guest-worker-program-low-skilled-immigrants.html?_r=0

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/03/29/business-labor-groups-near-agreement-on-federal-immigrant-worker-program/

[abcx13]

More on labor-business......

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/30/us/politics/guest-worker-program-low-skilled-immigrants.html?_r=0

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/03/29/business-labor-groups-near-agreement-on-federal-immigrant-worker-program/

Was just coming here to post this. Sounds very positive. I got my fingers crossed. I hope there aren't unresolvable differences between the House and the Senate version.

[gs1968]

To abcx13/kuku82
Thanks for the info which sounds very positive indeed but I never believed that this was the dealbreaker or would have held up the legisation.Most likely the Bill would have been introduced and if it generated enough momentum,an agreement would have been reached. When we followed the debate in 2007 there was a lot of finger-pointing and Senator Obama's amendment was singled out. I still think it was the amnesty provisions that destroyed any chances of the Bill. We will never know what the Democratic House under Ms.Pelosi would have achieved.

As of now what should be of concern is that the House does not seem to be in any hurry to proceed and has a completely different idea of "comprehensive"
House Majority Leader Mr.Cantor is only focussing on narrow,piecemeal approach and seems to think that CIR is a tall order

http://thehill.com/video/house/290773-cantor-i-think-we-can-come-to-some-agreement-on-immigration-reform

http://www.agri-pulse.com/Congress-faces-tall-order-on-immigration-reform,-Cantor-says-03282013.asp

House Speaker Mr.Boehner's memo has no mention of gun control or immigration and is mainly going to focus on economic issues in the next few months

http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/boehner-new-tactical-plan-on-sequestration-worked/2013/03/28/1c975a30-97d2-11e2-b68f-dc5c4b47e519_story.html


I feel that the House strategy is to let the Senate pass a Bill after whatever blood-letting there might be and approach the issue only if it clears the Senate. This theory of mine however conflicts with earlier statements made by House leadership that the House would attempt to pass its own Bill concurrently and reconcile that with the Senate version in conference.

As abcx13 mentioned a few posts ago-all will be known in 7-10 days.

[abcx13]

To abcx13/kuku82
Thanks for the info which sounds very positive indeed but I never believed that this was the dealbreaker or would have held up the legisation.Most likely the Bill would have been introduced and if it generated enough momentum,an agreement would have been reached. When we followed the debate in 2007 there was a lot of finger-pointing and Senator Obama's amendment was singled out. I still think it was the amnesty provisions that destroyed any chances of the Bill. We will never know what the Democratic House under Ms.Pelosi would have achieved.

As of now what should be of concern is that the House does not seem to be in any hurry to proceed and has a completely different idea of "comprehensive"
House Majority Leader Mr.Cantor is only focussing on narrow,piecemeal approach and seems to think that CIR is a tall order

http://thehill.com/video/house/290773-cantor-i-think-we-can-come-to-some-agreement-on-immigration-reform

http://www.agri-pulse.com/Congress-faces-tall-order-on-immigration-reform,-Cantor-says-03282013.asp

House Speaker Mr.Boehner's memo has no mention of gun control or immigration and is mainly going to focus on economic issues in the next few months

http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/boehner-new-tactical-plan-on-sequestration-worked/2013/03/28/1c975a30-97d2-11e2-b68f-dc5c4b47e519_story.html


I feel that the House strategy is to let the Senate pass a Bill after whatever blood-letting there might be and approach the issue only if it clears the Senate. This theory of mine however conflicts with earlier statements made by House leadership that the House would attempt to pass its own Bill concurrently and reconcile that with the Senate version in conference.

As abcx13 mentioned a few posts ago-all will be known in 7-10 days.

One of the articles I posted recently also mentioned that the House was considering releasing their legislation before the Senate group since the latter seemed to be held up by the guest worker issues. I think the climate for amnesty is significantly different with Rand Paul and Rubio, both tea party favorites, endorsing it. I think Boehner is serious about getting something done but I could be wrong. I just hope the differences between the two versions will be reconcilable.

[rupen86]

http://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/sessions-leahy-immigration-reform/2013/03/28/id/496793

[gs1968]

I realize that the fate of piecemeal legislation is unclear in either chamber but it is heartening to see the I-squared Act quietly adding cosponsors on both sides of the aisle and the number of Senate supporters now stands at 24 (23 co-sponsor + original sponsor). However apart from Sens. Flake and Rubio the other members of the Gang of Eight have not signed on yet. It does count 6 of the 18 members of the Senate Judiciary Committee. The only reason I bring this up is that there is a faint hope that some of the provisions of the Bill may be rolled into the eventual CIR Bill. It does appear from initial reports that the increase to 300000 annually for H-1B visas is not happening

[ROCK72]

My first post...

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887323361804578390753360247518.html

[abcx13]

WSJ reports they have a deal:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887323361804578390753360247518.html

[rupen86]

WSJ reports they have a deal:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887323361804578390753360247518.html

"Every American worker, union and nonunion, is right to be concerned about a large guest-worker program, combined with a large amnesty of illegal workers," Mr. Sessions said, adding, "There is no doubt that such a plan will reduce Americans' wages and job prospects."

This guy seems to have problems with everything including provisions which republicans support. That's why when he says committee should be given enough time, there is every reason to be suspicious. It would be meaningless to hope that committee would unanimously pass something. I believe it is a good idea to rush this through committee process and put it on the floor as Leahy has indicated.

[rupen86]

http://www.cleveland.com/nation/index.ssf/2013/03/possible_breakthrough_on_immig.html

"The workers would be able to change jobs and could seek permanent residency. Under current temporary worker programs, workers can't move from employer to employer and have no path to permanent U.S. residence and citizenship."

If these tens of thousands of workers are added to existing EB system, the backlogs will dramatically increase in few years time if EB numbers are not increased.

[gs1968]

To rupen86
Here is more information on Senator Sessions thoughts

http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2013/03/jeff-sessions-declines-to-march-to-the-tune-of-big-business-on-immigration.php

We should realize that the process of reform and legalization of undocumented aliens is fraught with dangers & risks for both parties and it is important for legislation to be passed with overwhelming majorities in both chambers to provide political cover and to ensure that neither party is punished during the mid-term elections. If the Bill comes out of the committee in a rushed process with a 10-8 vote, it will likely not clear cloture in the Senate. It is no coincidence that both in the House and the Senate there are equal numbers of Republicans & Democrats working on these Bills. We should also allow for the fact that if the details are not acceptable to Democrats-they can stall on the Bill too especially on the FB provisions. Since there is no meat on the bone yet,it is difficult to see the opposition clearly. We will wait in hope that there will be some light at the end of the tunnel for both FB & EB backlogs.

[abcx13]

http://www.cleveland.com/nation/index.ssf/2013/03/possible_breakthrough_on_immig.html

"The workers would be able to change jobs and could seek permanent residency. Under current temporary worker programs, workers can't move from employer to employer and have no path to permanent U.S. residence and citizenship."

If these tens of thousands of workers are added to existing EB system, the backlogs will dramatically increase in few years time if EB numbers are not increased.

I doubt anyone will petition for these lower skilled workers - the cost and hassle won't be worth it.

[gcq]

To rupen86
Here is more information on Senator Sessions thoughts

http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2013/03/jeff-sessions-declines-to-march-to-the-tune-of-big-business-on-immigration.php

We should realize that the process of reform and legalization of undocumented aliens is fraught with dangers & risks for both parties and it is important for legislation to be passed with overwhelming majorities in both chambers to provide political cover and to ensure that neither party is punished during the mid-term elections. If the Bill comes out of the committee in a rushed process with a 10-8 vote, it will likely not clear cloture in the Senate. It is no coincidence that both in the House and the Senate there are equal numbers of Republicans & Democrats working on these Bills. We should also allow for the fact that if the details are not acceptable to Democrats-they can stall on the Bill too especially on the FB provisions. Since there is no meat on the bone yet,it is difficult to see the opposition clearly. We will wait in hope that there will be some light at the end of the tunnel for both FB & EB backlogs.

The chance of passage of CIR is closely linked to the framework of the legislation. If the negotiators has not carefully crafted the legislation to bypass filibuster in senate, it won't pass. The essence of these negotiations is finding this right balance. When different negotiating teams announce they have "reached a deal", we assume it is smart deal aimed at passing the legislation.

People like sessions will try to find all kind of reasons why legislation should go slow ( so that he gets enough time to screw it up). His ultimate aim is the failure of CIR. Sessions and Grassley are well aware that they cannot block the bill by "hold" as it will be forced through a cloture motion where they have no leverage. These statements by Sessions is hopeless yet last ditch effort by him to stall the legislation. Democrats are well aware of hist tactics hence trying to rush it through which is the right strategy.

[rupen86]

To rupen86
Here is more information on Senator Sessions thoughts

http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2013/03/jeff-sessions-declines-to-march-to-the-tune-of-big-business-on-immigration.php

We should realize that the process of reform and legalization of undocumented aliens is fraught with dangers & risks for both parties and it is important for legislation to be passed with overwhelming majorities in both chambers to provide political cover and to ensure that neither party is punished during the mid-term elections. If the Bill comes out of the committee in a rushed process with a 10-8 vote, it will likely not clear cloture in the Senate. It is no coincidence that both in the House and the Senate there are equal numbers of Republicans & Democrats working on these Bills. We should also allow for the fact that if the details are not acceptable to Democrats-they can stall on the Bill too especially on the FB provisions. Since there is no meat on the bone yet,it is difficult to see the opposition clearly. We will wait in hope that there will be some light at the end of the tunnel for both FB & EB backlogs.

I do not agree that if bill is discussed in the committee for months (What Session wants) versus Weeks (What Leahy wants), it will have a good chance of passing. Time is of essence. Even Labrador who is conservative and tea party favorite and who is actively taking part in immigration in the house believes that if it does not pass by this year, we should not expect anything next year because of elections. I do not believe this bill can pass without cloture irrespective of whether it is discussed for months or weeks in the committee. Even if all committee members agree to the bill and bill is brought to the floor, it won't be hard to find one another senator who will have problem with the bill and would put "hold" on the bill.

[gs1968]

We should all watch this tomorrow for further information

http://livewire.talkingpointsmemo.com/entry/flake-schumer-to-appear-on-meet-press

[abcx13]

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/31/us/politics/deal-said-to-be-reached-on-guest-worker-program-in-immigration.html?_r=0

This part was mildly concerning:

Senator Marco Rubio, Republican of Florida and a member of the bipartisan group, sent a letter Saturday to Senator Patrick Leahy, Democrat of Vermont and the chairman of the Senate Judiciary Committee, urging against “excessive haste” in considering the soon-to-be-introduced legislation.The support of the voters will be crucial for passing any immigration law, Mr. Rubio said in the letter, and “that support can only be earned through full and careful consideration of legislative language and an open process of amendments.”

[gs1968]

To abcx13

Senator Rubio's stand is nothing new and he has mentioned this in a previous interview with Rush Limbaugh

http://dailycaller.com/2013/03/27/sessions-slams-leahy-for-immigration-rush/

Here is a more detailed link

http://washingtonexaminer.com/rubio-warns-against-rush-to-legislate-on-immigration-reform/article/2525850

However I will need all the Gurus/Pandits/Oracles etc to tell me what Rep.Labrador is saying in this op-ed piece in the LA Times

http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/commentary/la-oe-0331-labrador-immigration-tea-party-20130331,0,5351681.story

Is he for citizenship or against it?

[rupen86]

To abcx13

Senator Rubio's stand is nothing new and he has mentioned this in a previous interview with Rush Limbaugh

http://dailycaller.com/2013/03/27/sessions-slams-leahy-for-immigration-rush/

Here is a more detailed link

http://washingtonexaminer.com/rubio-warns-against-rush-to-legislate-on-immigration-reform/article/2525850

However I will need all the Gurus/Pandits/Oracles etc to tell me what Rep.Labrador is saying in this op-ed piece in the LA Times

http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/commentary/la-oe-0331-labrador-immigration-tea-party-20130331,0,5351681.story

Is he for citizenship or against it?


On Rubio, I was surprised to see that he also supports Session in spending more time in committee. I do not understand the logic though. Logically speaking, hearings should be held first and then the bill should be written after taking inputs from the hearing. Here, there will be bill and hearings are held after that. So, if people are putting amendments to the bill after hearing, will he agree to that? If guest worker program deal is achieved after so much deliberation, and if it is changed in the committee the way Rubio would not like, would he then support the bill?

On Labrador, it seems he is in line with path to citizenship. This para is clear enough about that.
"I am not advocating a two-tiered immigration system or second-class status — those who can become citizens and those who can never become citizens. Anyone who wants to become a naturalized citizen of the United States is welcome to apply. But Congress must not make it any easier for those who entered our country illegally to obtain citizenship. Those who qualify for the new guest worker and visa programs and desire citizenship would be placed at the end of the line behind others immigrating legally. It would be a travesty to treat those who violated our laws better than those who have patiently waited their turn to come to the United States the right way."
But I was surprised about this.
"The starting place — the trigger for reforming and modernizing our immigration system — must be securing our borders and effectively enforcing our immigration laws before any legal status is granted to those here illegally."
It seems he does not want to give any kind of legal status before "Security trigger" which if included in the bill would not pass. Senate bill would give legal status immediately but it would link green card to border security.
But overall, it seems that he is in line with broad points. So, I think house bill will also include path to citizenship the way senate bill would. I think there will be very limited differences between senate and house bill if above is true.

[gcq]

IMO Marco Rubio was never sincere about Immigration reform. A tea party star, he was against amnesty. It is the vote bank politics and opportunism that made him a "champion" of CIR. So I am not surprised about his stand. Any CIR proponent will know that too much baking time for CIR on the floor or committee will kill it.

[gcq]

Why should people who are legal through CIR be denied Obamacare ?

http://news.yahoo.com/video/immigration-reforms-political-dance-obamacare-024842084.html (http://news.yahoo.com/video/immigration-reforms-political-dance-obamacare-024842084.html)

[gs1968]

To rupen86
As abcx13 has mentioned,it is concerning in that if he feels that adequate process was not given to the Bill that would mean one less vote for cloture. We still need 5 republican votes for cloture assuming all Democrats support it. The GOP can always make the argument that although they support the principle of CIR they would like to wait till all questions are resolved through committee process.

One other legislative consideration is that a Bill of such scope is usually referred to multiple committees. Fortunately consideration by additional committees is usually time-limited unlike the primary committee where there is no such limit. In the case of this legislation-after the Judiciary committee has dealt with it,most likely the Committee on Homeland Security will act on the Bill ( they are responsible for border security)

http://www.hsgac.senate.gov/media/chairman-carper-on-immigration

There is a similar process in the House also.

Also it is not unheard of to have hearings on a Bill after introduction to gain further information before the mark-up stage.

Regarding Rep.Labrador-this is the paragraph that concerned me

"The legislation should not provide a special pathway to citizenship for the millions who have willfully violated our immigration laws. Those who entered the U.S. as children, through no fault of their own, will be allowed to have a pathway to citizenship. But those who entered illegally as adults will only be allowed to participate in the new and improved guest worker and visa programs."

The Senate plan is envisaging 13 years for citizenship while he is saying they should avail of guest worker programs.The difference in numbers here is so huge that I cannot see how it is possible. There are a maximum of 200000 visas annually while the number of undocumented aliens is greater than 11 million.

[gs1968]

I doubt anyone will petition for these lower skilled workers - the cost and hassle won't be worth it.

I found this article in the USA today interesting although I would like to see other sources or the actual Bill itself to believe it-

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/03/30/immigration-bill-agreement-visas/2039043/


In the middle of the article is this paragraph

"Once granted a W-Visa, workers would be able to switch between U.S. employers — a possibility that does not exist under current law — and stay in the U.S. year-round. They would also be able to apply for legal permanent residence, or green cards, on their own. Current law requires employers to do that on their behalf."

It claims that the low-skilled workers can self-petition which at this point is not available to high-skilled workers. Is it possible that CIR may allow high-skilled workers to also self-petition and remove employers out of the equation?

[abcx13]

I found this article in the USA today interesting although I would like to see other sources or the actual Bill itself to believe it-

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/03/30/immigration-bill-agreement-visas/2039043/


In the middle of the article is this paragraph

"Once granted a W-Visa, workers would be able to switch between U.S. employers — a possibility that does not exist under current law — and stay in the U.S. year-round. They would also be able to apply for legal permanent residence, or green cards, on their own. Current law requires employers to do that on their behalf."

It claims that the low-skilled workers can self-petition which at this point is not available to high-skilled workers. Is it possible that CIR may allow high-skilled workers to also self-petition and remove employers out of the equation?

Probably will be a separate queue that will get backlogged soon.

About Rubio playing tough, maybe he's just posturing to appeal to the party base or to be nice to Sessions even though he'll go along with a short committee markup...

[rupen86]

I found this article in the USA today interesting although I would like to see other sources or the actual Bill itself to believe it-

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/03/30/immigration-bill-agreement-visas/2039043/


In the middle of the article is this paragraph

"Once granted a W-Visa, workers would be able to switch between U.S. employers — a possibility that does not exist under current law — and stay in the U.S. year-round. They would also be able to apply for legal permanent residence, or green cards, on their own. Current law requires employers to do that on their behalf."

It claims that the low-skilled workers can self-petition which at this point is not available to high-skilled workers. Is it possible that CIR may allow high-skilled workers to also self-petition and remove employers out of the equation?

Wow, if they can petition themselves, and if that will be counted against EB numbers, I do not know how EB backlog will work out. I do not think this will apply to high skill immigration. That will be limited to H1 discussion and some changes in manipulating EB numbers.

[rupen86]

To rupen86
As abcx13 has mentioned,it is concerning in that if he feels that adequate process was not given to the Bill that would mean one less vote for cloture. We still need 5 republican votes for cloture assuming all Democrats support it. The GOP can always make the argument that although they support the principle of CIR they would like to wait till all questions are resolved through committee process.

One other legislative consideration is that a Bill of such scope is usually referred to multiple committees. Fortunately consideration by additional committees is usually time-limited unlike the primary committee where there is no such limit. In the case of this legislation-after the Judiciary committee has dealt with it,most likely the Committee on Homeland Security will act on the Bill ( they are responsible for border security)

http://www.hsgac.senate.gov/media/chairman-carper-on-immigration

There is a similar process in the House also.

Also it is not unheard of to have hearings on a Bill after introduction to gain further information before the mark-up stage.

Regarding Rep.Labrador-this is the paragraph that concerned me

"The legislation should not provide a special pathway to citizenship for the millions who have willfully violated our immigration laws. Those who entered the U.S. as children, through no fault of their own, will be allowed to have a pathway to citizenship. But those who entered illegally as adults will only be allowed to participate in the new and improved guest worker and visa programs."

The Senate plan is envisaging 13 years for citizenship while he is saying they should avail of guest worker programs.The difference in numbers here is so huge that I cannot see how it is possible. There are a maximum of 200000 visas annually while the number of undocumented aliens is greater than 11 million.

Regarding cloture, you are assuming that all democrats will support it and only 5 republican votes are needed. I do not think that's how it will be played out. It would be a mix of republicans and democrats supporting it with more democrats than republicans. If this bill just gets 5 republican votes, we can forget about it passing in the house. Only strong senate vote can put pressure on the house to pass it. I do not think republicans can get away with the argument that they want to pass the bill but they are not given enough time in the committee. They want this issue behind them and won't be looking forward to again have to defend themselves on immigration.

What Labrador, he is saying that he does not support special pathway to citizenship and that they should go back at the end of the line. That's what gang of eight is also saying but it is true that they have come up with 13 year plan for citizenship which I have not understood yet that if someone is going at the end of the line then how do you define specific timeline like 13 years.

[gs1968]

Something to think about as you are having morning coffee

http://dailycaller.com/2013/03/31/rubio-demands-some-immigration-hearings-may-delay-amnesty-bill/

[rupen86]

Something to think about as you are having morning coffee

http://dailycaller.com/2013/03/31/rubio-demands-some-immigration-hearings-may-delay-amnesty-bill/

He might be creating cover for himself in the event that the bill does not pass or that opposition to the bill is larger than anticipated or he might be positioning himself little on the right. Or, since he has specifically asked for security related hearing, if one such hearing is held, he might be satisfied with that and can claim that he forced democrats to have such hearing.

[gs1968]

This is Sen.Rubio's latest press release

http://www.politico.com/story/2013/03/marco-rubio-reports-of-immigration-deal-premature-89493.html

Please watch C-Span now if you can. A former staffer of Sen.McCain is speaking

[gs1968]

To gs1968
I hope I am not accused of hogging this thread but I was unable to watch the NBC show but managed to get the details online

http://firstread.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/03/31/17539479-senators-immigration-deal-close-not-complete?lite

The concluding paragraph is encouraging and I really hope he is saying that sincerely

"I think that we'll stick together as a Gang," he said. "And I hope that we can pull some Republicans our way. I think a number of them are with us already."

[gcq]

This is why he supports immigration now.

http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/DC-Decoder/Decoder-Wire/2013/0129/Immigration-reform-bill-GOP-s-Marco-Rubio-seizes-opportunity-but-also-risk (http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/DC-Decoder/Decoder-Wire/2013/0129/Immigration-reform-bill-GOP-s-Marco-Rubio-seizes-opportunity-but-also-risk)


Rubio and Limbaugh
http://www.mediaite.com/online/marco-rubio-convinces-rush-limbaugh-that-bipartisan-immigration-plan-is-admirable-and-noteworthy/

[gs1968]

This is encouraging
http://www.politico.com/story/2013/04/immigration-reform-deal-house-89499.html

In the middle of the second page is this-
Republicans say reforming visa laws for high-tech workers is key to a compromise.

[rupen86]

This is encouraging
http://www.politico.com/story/2013/04/immigration-reform-deal-house-89499.html

In the middle of the second page is this-
Republicans say reforming visa laws for high-tech workers is key to a compromise.

I am putting some quotes from above article which seem important. Entire article seems very important and useful.

"Sources describe the House plan as not differing to starkly from a compromise being drafted by the Senate’s Gang of Eight, a bipartisan group that is also nearing the finish line"
"The GOP is also mulling skipping the committee process and instead having lengthy discussions among Republicans to work out the legislation’s kinks"
"The House is unlikely to vote on one big bill. Instead, the legislation is likely to be moved in parts, so Republicans and Democrats can vote against elements they oppose."
"Republicans say reforming visa laws for high-tech workers is key to a compromise"
"Throughout the process, both Republicans and Democrats have recognized that Labrador is the lynchpin to getting something done. Without his stamp of approval, a compromise could easily fall apart. Labrador is focused on the pathway to citizenship and ensuring that Congress tightens restrictions on which family members can follow a newly legal immigrant into the country"
"It’s unclear whether lawmakers will unveil principles of agreement or a draft bill when they return from recess, sources say. But when a product is unveiled, both Republicans and Democrats will have to begin the process of gathering support from outside groups. That is something that Senate negotiators chose to do ahead of time. But House members can always draw on the principles agreed to by such groups as the U.S. Chamber of Commerce and the AFL-CIO for the Senate draft."

[bvsamrat]

Sorry to barge in.

But for any PR, self petition should have been the best case (without PERM/I-140 etc.) as this will remove all the attachments with employer. Just a proof of having a regular paid job in a lacking skill category for certain duration. No doubt there would be be loopholes to exploit. But this will prevent employers (hand in hand with lawyers) exploiting the employees.


Wow, if they can petition themselves, and if that will be counted against EB numbers, I do not know how EB backlog will work out. I do not think this will apply to high skill immigration. That will be limited to H1 discussion and some changes in manipulating EB numbers.

[rupen86]

Sorry to barge in.

But for any PR, self petition should have been the best case (without PERM/I-140 etc.) as this will remove all the attachments with employer. Just a proof of having a regular paid job in a lacking skill category for certain duration. No doubt there would be be loopholes to exploit. But this will prevent employers (hand in hand with lawyers) exploiting the employees.

I like the idea but I do not like the fact that it would be only for the low skill workers are not high skill. Also, I do not like the fact that it might eat the numbers from EB which is currently heavily backlogged.

[CleanSock]

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2013/03/31/senators-expect-immigration-legislation-this-week-rubio-signals-no-final-agreement-yet/?hpt=hp_bn3

On a different note, why is it that small details on illegal immigrants pathway to citizenship (such as 10 years to get GC, 3 years to get citizenship, back taxes, hefty fine, english proficiency etc etc) are getting out in the media but none about legal immigration (taking dependents out of quota, STEM GCs etc)? I am starting to wonder if they are really working on improving legal immigration.

[idiotic]

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2013/04/immigration-reform-for-thanksgiving/

[abcx13]

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2013/04/immigration-reform-for-thanksgiving/

My understanding was that this had to be done way before Thanksgiving before House Republicans start campaigning for mid-term elections and veer to the right...

The Thanksgiving bit seems to be an extrapolation on the reporter's part but the House will definitely have to vote before the fall IMHO if this is to have any hope. Hopefully once the Senate passes it, Obama can use that as a cudgel to get the House to move faster...

[gs1968]

http://thehill.com/homenews/house/291235-head-of-dccc-only-house-gop-can-block-comprehensive-immigration-reform#ixzz2PEhj2GZ3

[rupen86]

My understanding was that this had to be done way before Thanksgiving before House Republicans start campaigning for mid-term elections and veer to the right...

The Thanksgiving bit seems to be an extrapolation on the reporter's part but the House will definitely have to vote before the fall IMHO if this is to have any hope. Hopefully once the Senate passes it, Obama can use that as a cudgel to get the House to move faster...

My understanding is that it should be done before August recess.

[bieber]

Rubio's stand from the begining was, to secure borders before anything can be done

Democrats don't care about that, if they are sincere about CIR they should find middleground with gop senators to solve that issue. Coming out in public and giving statements that deal is reached is nonsense when other members of the gang clearly not on the same line

[gs1968]

My understanding was that this had to be done way before Thanksgiving before House Republicans start campaigning for mid-term elections and veer to the right...

The Thanksgiving bit seems to be an extrapolation on the reporter's part but the House will definitely have to vote before the fall IMHO if this is to have any hope. Hopefully once the Senate passes it, Obama can use that as a cudgel to get the House to move faster...

I feel the timeline is reasonable given the Memorial Day/Independence Day State Work Periods and the Summer recess. The House vote will be after the Senate vote in July and most likely after Labor Day. If the House wraps up work by October and we allow 4 weeks for a conference report-it takes us into November

[gs1968]

I found Rep. Trey Gowdy's views encouraging considering he leads the House Subcommittee on Immigration

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/04/01/south-carolina-becomes-battleground-in-immigration-debate/

[idiotic]

Thanksgiving is very optimistic. I would be very happy with that timeline.

For last thanksgiving, we were praying for passage HR 3012. Not even in our wildest dreams, we hoped for CIR to pass by next thanksgiving.

[gs1968]

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2013/03/31/senators-expect-immigration-legislation-this-week-rubio-signals-no-final-agreement-yet/?hpt=hp_bn3

On a different note, why is it that small details on illegal immigrants pathway to citizenship (such as 10 years to get GC, 3 years to get citizenship, back taxes, hefty fine, english proficiency etc etc) are getting out in the media but none about legal immigration (taking dependents out of quota, STEM GCs etc)? I am starting to wonder if they are really working on improving legal immigration.

My theory for what it is worth is that the EB legal immigration part is the easiest part to resolve and there are probably no contentious issues there. Both Reps Labrador and Lofgren are in favor of eliminating country caps and will include that in any legislation. The Senate has been friendly territory to this and continues to be so with 24 co-sponsors for the I-squared Act which includes country cap removal. The concern in the House is that the same support which marked the introduction of HR 3012 is lacking with not much support this time around from Judiciary Committee members. Since it passed by a voice vote in committee the last time,it is tough to see if any of these members have changed their mind. Rep Goodlatte has not signed on as a cosponsor nor has previous chairman Rep.Lamar Smith. I still think country cap removal is a good bet if CIR gets that far.

[gs1968]

http://www.politico.com/story/2013/04/inhofe-heart-bleeds-for-immigrants-89518.html

This is one less vote for passage-Some minds are going to be hard to change

[abcx13]

http://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/Rubio-Immigration-Overhaul-Deal/2013/04/01/id/497311
https://www.nytimes.com/2013/04/02/us/politics/grahams-immigration-bid-starts-in-south-carolina.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

[iamdeb]

hey abcx13 and rupen86,

did you get any link showing what's in it for EB2 India in the CIR bill? all the links i read mentions mainly illegal immigrants and family visas.

Thanks!
Soumitra

[rupen86]

http://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/Rubio-Immigration-Overhaul-Deal/2013/04/01/id/497311
https://www.nytimes.com/2013/04/02/us/politics/grahams-immigration-bid-starts-in-south-carolina.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

The first link somewhat explains Rubio's remarks but I have yet to find a link which will do thorough analysis.

[rupen86]

hey abcx13 and rupen86,

did you get any link showing what's in it for EB2 India in the CIR bill? all the links i read mentions mainly illegal immigrants and family visas.

Thanks!
Soumitra

Posting the link from one of my earlier posts. I had to work hard to look into earlier posts :)
http://www.metrocorpcounsel.com/articles/22953/high-skilled-immigration-reform-what-does-future-hold

[vizcard]

hey abcx13 and rupen86,

did you get any link showing what's in it for EB2 India in the CIR bill? all the links i read mentions mainly illegal immigrants and family visas.

Thanks!
Soumitra

It's all speculation at this time but per country caps will go away for sure. Other potential items
- visa recapture
- dependents not counting towards quota
- separate STEM quota
- increased total GC numbers
- elimination of GC lottery

[idiotic]

NY/NY folks can get into some action at town hall in Liberty State Park..

https://my.barackobama.com/page/event/detail/gsk48t

[kuku82]

Leahy wants just one committee hearing for CIR....

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/04/02/leahy-says-senate-act-quickly-immigration/

[abcx13]

https://www.nytimes.com/2013/04/03/us/politics/house-groups-immigration-bill-takes-shape.html?_r=0

[rupen86]

https://www.nytimes.com/2013/04/03/us/politics/house-groups-immigration-bill-takes-shape.html?_r=0

Seems important article. I did not understand some things. It says Dreamers and farm workers would get expedited road to legal status. I do not know how they would define farm workers. Would that need some years of experience working as farm worker? Illegal farm worker would get expedited status than legal farm worker? Then it says next group of people would be able to apply through legal or family preferences. If they eliminate some family preferences then those avenues will be gone. Supposing low skill workers can apply on their own for the green card, these people can apply that way but it also says they will have to go back to their home country. It also needs to finalize on border security and most likely won't include government benefits which senate had voted down recently.Guest worker program is also not finalized. May be they will pick up that from senate but article says they remain skeptical of senate efforts and doubt that senate would be able to release the bill next week. I do not know if there is something common about that suspicion and Rubio's. Overall, this leaves more questions than answers.

[abcx13]

I guess all will be clear the next week when hopefully both bills are out.

My feeling is that most illegals will be happy with a GC or even the provisional legal status and won't bother jumping through the hoops to become citizens. If their kids are already citizens, it doesn't matter in terms of access to education.

[abcx13]

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/04/02/border-security-illegal-immigration-gang-of-eight/2048037/
http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/marco-rubio-sits-on-the-immigration-fence/2013/04/02/7dda78c4-9bd6-11e2-a941-a19bce7af755_story.html

[gs1968]

http://www.politico.com/story/2013/04/immigration-gop-roger-simon-mitt-romney-89563.html

So there may be less of an immigration deal in existence than current headlines would have us believe. Not only are Republicans still thrashing out the issue, but a source told me that Democrats in the Senate are far from having the 60 votes necessary for a filibuster-proof bill. And nobody knows what the even more chaotic House will come up with.

I am not sure what to believe anymore!

[rupen86]

http://www.politico.com/story/2013/04/immigration-gop-roger-simon-mitt-romney-89563.html

So there may be less of an immigration deal in existence than current headlines would have us believe. Not only are Republicans still thrashing out the issue, but a source told me that Democrats in the Senate are far from having the 60 votes necessary for a filibuster-proof bill. And nobody knows what the even more chaotic House will come up with.

I am not sure what to believe anymore!

The article has less content and more assumptions. It discusses about republican party problems which they have identified. Some in the party might believe that immigration is not a problem but rank and file republicans believe that and they are embracing that. It talks about wait period, but even Obama came up with 8+5 year period. So, 10+3 does not look very different. I do not think this gag would have done everything in secrecy without keeping whitehouse in loop. Even before bill has come up, I do not know how so called source can tell that there may not be 60 votes.

[gs1968]

The article has less content and more assumptions. It discusses about republican party problems which they have identified. Some in the party might believe that immigration is not a problem but rank and file republicans believe that and they are embracing that. It talks about wait period, but even Obama came up with 8+5 year period. So, 10+3 does not look very different. I do not think this gag would have done everything in secrecy without keeping whitehouse in loop. Even before bill has come up, I do not know how so called source can tell that there may not be 60 votes.

I know you are trying to be positive but Roger Simon is a respected journalist from Chicago with usually good insider information. Also there is a difference in my opinion between the House and senate Bills although as abcx13 mentioned we should wait to see the Bills first. The House Bill after the wait would require obtaining Green Card through regular channels with all the numerical/country-cap limitations while my understanding of the Senate Bill is that there is no such requirement except the time lapse of 10 years for a GC

[gs1968]

Hopefully they will introduce the legislation and sort out the differences later

http://www.politico.com/story/2013/04/business-balks-at-immigration-deal-89607_Page2.html

[rupen86]

Hopefully they will introduce the legislation and sort out the differences later

http://www.politico.com/story/2013/04/business-balks-at-immigration-deal-89607_Page2.html

Construction industry is left out of the deal so obviously they will not support it. I do not know if their support is required to pass the bill.

[rupen86]

From Oh Law firm,
http://www.aflcio.org/Blog/Political-Action-Legislation/5-Things-You-Need-to-Know-About-the-Immigration-Agreement

From the above link, it is clear that those workers can self petition for their green cards. I am assuming that they will be petitioning under EB category which means more backlog ahead unless sufficient number of green cards are added to EB.

[gs1968]

An update

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=176306664

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/04/05/us/politics/in-immigration-reform-path-to-citizenship-divides-and-confuses.html?_r=0

[rupen86]

An update

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=176306664

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/04/05/us/politics/in-immigration-reform-path-to-citizenship-divides-and-confuses.html?_r=0

The first link provides very important and latest update. It seems positive update.

[bvsamrat]

If indeed W-Visa with self petition get implemented
The present EB backlog would have to cleared and apply only for future consular applicants.
All locals staying more than 1 years would have to be greened automatically or another queue may start this time may be based on skills categories.
We have to wait and see if any number limits will be proposed

But I like the concept of W-Visa with self petition of more than 1 year and against a specific skill lacking category





From Oh Law firm,
http://www.aflcio.org/Blog/Political-Action-Legislation/5-Things-You-Need-to-Know-About-the-Immigration-Agreement

From the above link, it is clear that those workers can self petition for their green cards. I am assuming that they will be petitioning under EB category which means more backlog ahead unless sufficient number of green cards are added to EB.

[gs1968]

One other issue that keeps coming up often which has not been raised extensively yet is the problem of agricultural workers.
After the initial amnesty in 1986 a lot of undocumented aliens who became legal moved on to better jobs and the agricultural worker pool dried up. According to some of the links I provide below there is a separate group of Senators working on this issue to add to the CIR Bill

http://www.presstelegram.com/news/ci_22950925/deal-agricultural-workers-remains-hurdle-immigration-law

http://westernfarmpress.com/government/agriculture-alert-immigration-reform-gains-steam

http://www.thepacker.com/fruit-vegetable-news/Cap-issue-troubles-ag-labor-advocates-201476281.html

http://www.agri-pulse.com/Congress-faces-tall-order-on-immigration-reform,-Cantor-says-03282013.asp

I felt I needed to add this article

http://blogs.kqed.org/newsfix/2013/04/05/on-immigration-high-tech-and-ag-dont-meet-literally/

[abcx13]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/congress/key-gop-senators-gripe-about-closed-door-process-drafting-immigration-bill-push-for-debate/2013/04/05/5d1d4f80-9e15-11e2-9219-51eb8387e8f1_story.html
http://www.usnews.com/news/articles/2013/04/05/immigration-bill-may-blow-up-over-ag-workers_print.html
http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2013/04/05/plan-eyes-fast-green-cards-for-farmworkers/

[rupen86]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/congress/key-gop-senators-gripe-about-closed-door-process-drafting-immigration-bill-push-for-debate/2013/04/05/5d1d4f80-9e15-11e2-9219-51eb8387e8f1_story.html
http://www.usnews.com/news/articles/2013/04/05/immigration-bill-may-blow-up-over-ag-workers_print.html
http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2013/04/05/plan-eyes-fast-green-cards-for-farmworkers/

I do not know without the farm deal why Schumer and other gang of 8 senators excluding Rubio were optimistic.

[rupen86]

http://www.policymic.com/articles/32477/immigration-reform-2013-legal-immigrants-are-getting-the-short-end-of-the-stick

[gs1968]

http://www.rollcall.com/news/gang_of_8_immigration_bill_set_to_drop-223629-1.html?pos=hln

[rupen86]

http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/292119-gop-senators-open-up-immigration-reform-negotiations

[vizcard]

Ca someone explain why we have a Senate and a House bill? Why not just work off one bill, make amendments, etc rather go thru the whole process twice. I suppose theoretically it gives CIR 2 chances to pass but realistically that's not the case.

[gs1968]

http://www.azcentral.com/news/politics/articles/20130405immigration-reform-bill-may-be-delayed-dispute-farmworkers-wages.html

[seahawks2012]

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/04/06/republicans-accuse-colleagues-secretly-drafting-immigration-bill-urge/

[rupen86]

http://www.azcentral.com/news/politics/articles/20130405immigration-reform-bill-may-be-delayed-dispute-farmworkers-wages.html

In one of the earlier articles, one of the house members from gang of 8 was quoted as saying that he would be very surprised if the senate bill is released next week. This seems to confirm that.

[rupen86]

Ca someone explain why we have a Senate and a House bill? Why not just work off one bill, make amendments, etc rather go thru the whole process twice. I suppose theoretically it gives CIR 2 chances to pass but realistically that's not the case.

One bill would be good. But politics is not about good or bad. It is about scoring political points.

[rupen86]

http://discuss.ilw.com/content.php?1627-Article-Why-the-House-Proposal-makes-no-sense-by-Rehan-Alimohammad

[gs1968]

http://www.naplesnews.com/news/2013/apr/06/diaz-balart-delay-in-house-immigration-reforms/

[rupen86]

http://www.naplesnews.com/news/2013/apr/06/diaz-balart-delay-in-house-immigration-reforms/

Looks like, house bill won't be introduced next week and there is already suspicion that senate bill will be delayed by a week.

[gs1968]

http://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/house-immigration-bill-amnesty/2013/04/05/id/498039

[rupen86]

http://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/house-immigration-bill-amnesty/2013/04/05/id/498039

Seems very important article and provides some latest facts but also vague on some of the things.
1) It says that house bill won't provide amnesty and that it will differ from senate bill and indicates that senate bill is like amnesty. But it also says that it is not good for people to be here who can not aspire to be citizens. This may mean that they will provide different kind of path to citizenship.
2) It clearly says senate bill won't be introduced next week.
3) It says that house may try to pass series of bills instead of one. I am thinking that house may work on series of bills and later combine them into one.

[gs1968]

To rupen86
I think a few of us have gotten ourselves into this mode of mining news sources and going on a roller-coaster ride multiple times a day. It might help to take a break (going to be difficult!) and enjoy the family and weather and come back to this in Aug/Sept which is the earliest when I feel any meaningful legislative action is possible. Also the Bills introduced now in either chamber may not resemble the final product after committee/chamber/conference consideration. For this reason,there is no need to be overjoyed if the provisions in the Bill are favorable or dejected if they are unfavorable

[gs1968]

http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/292209-gutierrez-diaz-balart-agree-no-amnesty-in-immigration-reform-package

"...and said they hoped to unveil a proposal by year’s end."

"But neither would give a timeline on when the bill would be released."

How did next week become year-end?

[abcx13]

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/print/2013-04-07/immigration-gives-rubio-his-shot-at-big-leagues.html
http://latino.foxnews.com/latino/politics/2013/04/07/immigration-deal-faces-hang-ups-despite-approval-from-president-obama/ - Finally guesses at a vote count - 70 in the Senate.
http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2013/04/07/house-members-optimistic-about-immigration-overhaul/

Re the post above, I think he's just saying that CIR has to be done this year.

[qesehmk]

I will echo this and add that while posting links is useful, posting your own 2 cents on the news is much more valuable. Nowadays it is so easy to find immigration related news ... anybody can easily create a google news feed.

But if they get your 2 cents on why this news matters and what we should take away from this - that is really the value add. So please think about it in the interest of the readers.

To rupen86
I think a few of us have gotten ourselves into this mode of mining news sources and going on a roller-coaster ride multiple times a day. It might help to take a break (going to be difficult!) and enjoy the family and weather and come back to this in Aug/Sept which is the earliest when I feel any meaningful legislative action is possible. Also the Bills introduced now in either chamber may not resemble the final product after committee/chamber/conference consideration. For this reason,there is no need to be overjoyed if the provisions in the Bill are favorable or dejected if they are unfavorable

[rupen86]

To rupen86
I think a few of us have gotten ourselves into this mode of mining news sources and going on a roller-coaster ride multiple times a day. It might help to take a break (going to be difficult!) and enjoy the family and weather and come back to this in Aug/Sept which is the earliest when I feel any meaningful legislative action is possible. Also the Bills introduced now in either chamber may not resemble the final product after committee/chamber/conference consideration. For this reason,there is no need to be overjoyed if the provisions in the Bill are favorable or dejected if they are unfavorable

I agree. It is like addiction. If people come back here around August, they would have lost lot of news but it would not matter because those news won't make a difference in their life. In August, people might still be discussing about bill but may be different things. It might help to read less about this and just check occasionally. I would be hard to do that because as I said it is addiction.

[immitime]

I agree. It is like addiction. If people come back here around August, they would have lost lot of news but it would not matter because those news won't make a difference in their life. In August, people might still be discussing about bill but may be different things. It might help to read less about this and just check occasionally. I would be hard to do that because as I said it is addiction.

Water Water everywhere nor a little drop to drink -----this is the condition of Legal immigrants.

See CNN report today about UN-documented immigrants.... don't say Illegal huh...

As someone said.. "Politics is the last game of a scoundrel"

http://youtu.be/dnWZhRrvwGU

[geterdone]

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/04/08/opinion/reforms-for-work-visas.html?hp

reader comments are not friendly as usual

[rupen86]

Different take on Rubio's position.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/right-turn/wp/2013/04/08/rubio-all-in-on-immigration-reform/

[rupen86]

Things to watch for in immigration debate.
http://www.politico.com/story/2013/04/gang-of-eight-reform-immigration-debate-89728.html

[abcx13]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/immigration-proposal-could-be-delayed/2013/04/07/95033352-9fb8-11e2-9c03-6952ff305f35_story.html

We're now talking two weeks from now apparently.

[rupen86]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/immigration-proposal-could-be-delayed/2013/04/07/95033352-9fb8-11e2-9c03-6952ff305f35_story.html

We're now talking two weeks from now apparently.

Interesting thing to note here is that, all 8 will oppose amendments to the core things. Seems like a right strategy. It seems like, there is lot left to be done. Not just drafting but actual negotiations are also happening in parallel. Also, it says, bill would be on the senate floor after the memorial weekend which means committee would have one full month or more than that. That does not align with what Leahy was suggesting.

[gcq]

Tell him what it contains so that he can let NumbersUSA campaign against it right away !

http://dailycaller.com/2013/04/05/senate-judiciary-republicans-call-for-immigration-reform-transparency-from-gang-of-8-republicans/ (http://dailycaller.com/2013/04/05/senate-judiciary-republicans-call-for-immigration-reform-transparency-from-gang-of-8-republicans/)

[rupen86]

Tell him what it contains so that he can let NumbersUSA campaign against it right away !

http://dailycaller.com/2013/04/05/senate-judiciary-republicans-call-for-immigration-reform-transparency-from-gang-of-8-republicans/ (http://dailycaller.com/2013/04/05/senate-judiciary-republicans-call-for-immigration-reform-transparency-from-gang-of-8-republicans/)

I do not know how much difference it is going to make if they know one week in advance. I do not know how Rubio got permission to brief them ahead of unveiling the bill.

[gs1968]

Let the fun & games begin!

http://thehill.com/homenews/senate/292679-senators-aiming-to-unveil-immigration-reform-bill-by-thursday

[rupen86]

Let the fun & games begin!

http://thehill.com/homenews/senate/292679-senators-aiming-to-unveil-immigration-reform-bill-by-thursday

Good news :)

[abcx13]

http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/04/09/timing-of-senate-immigration-bill-remains-unclear/

And then there's this...

[gs1968]

To abcx13,rupen86,immitime & others
Given the amount of time we are spending on this legislation everyday-we should form our own Gang of Eight and send our own legislative proposals to the Senators!!

[rupen86]

To abcx13,rupen86,immitime & others
Given the amount of time we are spending on this legislation everyday-we should form our own Gang of Eight and send our own legislative proposals to the Senators!!

Good one :)

[gs1968]

This is now starting to resemble the usual omnibus, special-interest driven,pork-laden drivel that the Senate has so become used to passing in order to get to the 60 vote threshold

http://www.politico.com/story/2013/04/for-senators-immigration-talk-is-local-89837.html?hp=t3_3

Suddenly everything is included-Irish E-3,Polish visa waiver,H-1B,California farm workers,Vermont Dairy farmers.New York Apple growers,Florida cruise ship employees,Chicago construction workers etc, etc!!

However this line is providing some hope-elimination of country-cap maybe or is it referring to STEM visas/H-1B?

" It would affect immigration from countries ranging from Mexico to India and industries ranging from biotech firms to restaurants"

[CleanSock]

30% high tech visas for every 70% high tech Americans employed? Are they planning to bring the limit down to 50k (30k for all and 20k for masters students)? If this is what is in store for high skilled people then I would want it to fail!



This is now starting to resemble the usual omnibus, special-interest driven,pork-laden drivel that the Senate has so become used to passing in order to get to the 60 vote threshold

http://www.politico.com/story/2013/04/for-senators-immigration-talk-is-local-89837.html?hp=t3_3

Suddenly everything is included-Irish E-3,Polish visa waiver,H-1B,California farm workers,Vermont Dairy farmers.New York Apple growers,Florida cruise ship employees,Chicago construction workers etc, etc!!

However this line is providing some hope-elimination of country-cap maybe or is it referring to STEM visas/H-1B?

" It would affect immigration from countries ranging from Mexico to India and industries ranging from biotech firms to restaurants"

[rupen86]

30% high tech visas for every 70% high tech Americans employed? Are they planning to bring the limit down to 50k (30k for all and 20k for masters students)? If this is what is in store for high skilled people then I would want it to fail!

I think they are talking about companies having 70% gc/citizens and no more than 30% h1bs.